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Best benzo for treating GAD?
  1. #1
    John Guest

    Default Best benzo for treating GAD?

    Hi,

    I just wonder what is considered to be the best benzodiazepine for treating
    GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder)? Are there any notable differences
    between the different benzos apart from their half-life? Seems like a long
    half-life should be good for GAD (as opposed to for panic anxiety) since you
    will get a more even effect and won't have to take a new pill as often. So
    should you just aim for the one with the longest half-life, or is it not as
    simple as that?

    Thanks.

    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  2. #2
    ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~ Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    "John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:d9ba7$48b3023b$[email protected]..
    > Hi,
    >
    > I just wonder what is considered to be the best benzodiazepine for
    > treating GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder)? Are there any notable
    > differences between the different benzos apart from their half-life? Seems
    > like a long half-life should be good for GAD (as opposed to for panic
    > anxiety) since you will get a more even effect and won't have to take a
    > new pill as often. So should you just aim for the one with the longest
    > half-life, or is it not as simple as that?


    John,

    There are a tons of threads on this subject. If you read a bit, you'll find
    what's best for you.

    --

    . )) -::-
    . .))
    Laurie
    ((. ..
    -::- (( .

    *~*LiveLoveLaugh*~*

    All that I am or hope to be, I owe to my angel mother.
    ~Abraham Lincoln


    >
    > Thanks.
    > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **



  3. #3
    Philip Peters Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    John schreef:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I just wonder what is considered to be the best benzodiazepine for
    > treating GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder)? Are there any notable
    > differences between the different benzos apart from their half-life?
    > Seems like a long half-life should be good for GAD (as opposed to for
    > panic anxiety) since you will get a more even effect and won't have to
    > take a new pill as often. So should you just aim for the one with the
    > longest half-life, or is it not as simple as that?
    >
    > Thanks.
    > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **



    It's impossible to say which benzo if any would work best. I agree that
    it's logical to think of a benzo with a long half-life (clonazepam =
    Klonopin would be the first choice if there is no comorbid depression)
    but in clinical practice it's a matter of trial and error ("YMMV").
    CBT is definitely an almost mandatory choice as regards therapy.

    Philip

  4. #4
    Always Learning Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:04:30 +0200, "John" <[email protected]> wrote
    this stuff here :

    >I just wonder what is considered to be the best benzodiazepine for treating
    >GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder)?


    Ativan OR Klonopin, 10-15 MG's per day in divided doses.

    Xanax would be terrible because of it's short half-life.

    Valium would suck because it's low grade and slow to release into your
    brain matter.

    good luck, let us know how you do


  5. #5
    John Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> I just wonder what is considered to be the best benzodiazepine for
    >> treating GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder)? Are there any notable
    >> differences between the different benzos apart from their half-life?
    >> Seems like a long half-life should be good for GAD (as opposed to for
    >> panic anxiety) since you will get a more even effect and won't have to
    >> take a new pill as often. So should you just aim for the one with the
    >> longest half-life, or is it not as simple as that?
    >>
    >> Thanks.
    >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

    >
    >
    > It's impossible to say which benzo if any would work best. I agree that
    > it's logical to think of a benzo with a long half-life (clonazepam =
    > Klonopin would be the first choice if there is no comorbid depression)


    How does having a comorbid depression affect the choice of benzo? Are there
    some benzos that are considered to be better if one has depression as well,
    and in that case why?

    > but in clinical practice it's a matter of trial and error ("YMMV").


    Ok, I see. But as far as I understand, basically any benzo will give anxiety
    relief if the dose is high enough, and taken as often as needed... or? If
    so, then I'm not sure e.g. what symptoms to look for when determining if I
    should decide whether to try another benzo or not? I mean it's not as with
    an AD where you only have around 40-50% chance of success with any AD
    medication, i.e. it can completely fail to treat the depression.

    > CBT is definitely an almost mandatory choice as regards therapy.


    You mean that one should have CBT in addition to a benzo? If so, why do you
    consider that to be mandatory? Won't a benzo at a high enough dose give full
    anxiety relief? Or will CBT reduce the risk of having to increase the dose
    as time goes by?

    > Philip


    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  6. #6
    John Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    >>I just wonder what is considered to be the best benzodiazepine for
    >>treating
    >>GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder)?

    >
    > Ativan OR Klonopin, 10-15 MG's per day in divided doses.


    What makes them good choices for GAD?

    > Xanax would be terrible because of it's short half-life.


    That's what I would have thought as well. Still there seems to be a lot of
    people using it for GAD anyway. Strange!?

    > Valium would suck because it's low grade and slow to release into your
    > brain matter.


    By "low grade", do you mean that one will have to take a high dose (mg/day)
    to achieve an effect? Also, does it matter if it's slow to release into the
    brain matter even if it's taken regularly (e.g. daily)?

    > good luck, let us know how you do
    >


    Thanks!

    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  7. #7
    Always Learning Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:16:25 +0200, "John" <[email protected]> wrote
    this stuff here :

    >>>I just wonder what is considered to be the best benzodiazepine for
    >>>treating
    >>>GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder)?

    >>
    >> Ativan OR Klonopin, 10-15 MG's per day in divided doses.

    >
    >What makes them good choices for GAD?


    Because Ativan and Klonopin generally worker faster than other benzos,
    you do after all want relief faster right?
    And because they exit your body sort of slow so as not to give an
    up-n-down feeling.

    >> Xanax would be terrible because of it's short half-life.

    >
    >That's what I would have thought as well. Still there seems to be a lot of
    >people using it for GAD anyway. Strange!?


    Xanax is abused a lot because it works fast and leaves the body just
    about as fast so you have to start taking multiple doses per day to
    get the same effect.

    >
    >> Valium would suck because it's low grade and slow to release into your
    >> brain matter.

    >
    >By "low grade", do you mean that one will have to take a high dose (mg/day)
    >to achieve an effect? Also, does it matter if it's slow to release into the
    >brain matter even if it's taken regularly (e.g. daily)?


    Valium would be something to take if you were 'dealing with low grade
    stressors' like losing a job, death in the family or another stree
    which is predictable.

    GAD, anxiety and panic attack are not predictable events so Klonopin
    and Ativan are in my opinion the best choices.

    Of course what do I know, I've only taken these various benzo's for
    about 12 years.

    be well ;-)



  8. #8
    Always Learning Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:09:10 +0200, "John" <[email protected]> wrote
    this stuff here :

    >You mean that one should have CBT in addition to a benzo?


    No one has ever been cured of an axiety/panic related illness by one
    method alone. People need medicine in addition to therapy,
    talk-therapy or CBT whichever works best for you.

    You could do drugs alone or therapy/CBT alone but it would be a lot
    more slow and painful. You might tend to give up from the time it's
    taking.

    It took you a while to get the way you are now so it might take a
    while to undo what is happening.

    My experience in workng with nearly 100 people is a combination of
    talk-therapy, CBT and klonopin/ativan. And you're going to need around
    10-15 milligrams per day in divided doses of either ativan or
    klonopin.

    For good CBT will take a good LCSW or certified
    psychologist/psychiatrist. CBT is super expensive and hardly covered
    with private or public health insurance plans.

    Good luck.


  9. #9
    John Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    >>You mean that one should have CBT in addition to a benzo?
    >
    > No one has ever been cured of an axiety/panic related illness by one
    > method alone. People need medicine in addition to therapy,
    > talk-therapy or CBT whichever works best for you.
    >
    > You could do drugs alone or therapy/CBT alone but it would be a lot
    > more slow and painful. You might tend to give up from the time it's
    > taking.
    >
    > It took you a while to get the way you are now so it might take a
    > while to undo what is happening.
    >
    > My experience in workng with nearly 100 people is a combination of
    > talk-therapy, CBT and klonopin/ativan. And you're going to need around
    > 10-15 milligrams per day in divided doses of either ativan or
    > klonopin.
    >
    > For good CBT will take a good LCSW or certified
    > psychologist/psychiatrist. CBT is super expensive and hardly covered
    > with private or public health insurance plans.
    >
    > Good luck.


    When you say "No one has ever been cured of an axiety/panic related illness
    by one method alone", do you actually mean that one can be "cured" by a
    treatment combination of benzos + CBT? I.e. that after some time if you just
    follow what you have learnt during CBT, you won't need the benzos anymore
    and still won't have any GAD symptoms? If so, that sounds really wonderful!
    What do you estimate the chances are of experiencing such success? And how
    long time does it usually take?

    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  10. #10
    Philip Peters Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    Always Learning schreef:
    > On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:04:30 +0200, "John" <[email protected]> wrote
    > this stuff here :
    >
    >> I just wonder what is considered to be the best benzodiazepine for treating
    >> GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder)?

    >
    > Ativan OR Klonopin, 10-15 MG's per day in divided doses.




    These are ridiculously high doses, especially regarding Klonopin which
    is about four times as potent as Ativan. Moreover one should always
    start at a low dose and give the med a few weeks in which the dose can
    be raised until you find the therapeutic dose.


    >
    > Xanax would be terrible because of it's short half-life.



    Xanax is a perfectly helpful med for GAD. *Like Ativan* it has a short
    half life but it comes in an XR version as well which may cover you for
    24 hours or at least for 12 hours, depending on your rate of metabolism.
    >


    > Valium would suck because it's low grade and slow to release into your
    > brain matter.



    Valium is a good benzo too, it's less potent but the benzodiazepine
    equivalency charts are not very reliable because our reactions to these
    meds are so individual. If one takes Valium three times a day - in other
    words: as a *maintenance med* - there will be no "rollercoaster effect"
    so that the pace at which it starts to work doesn't make much of a
    difference anymore.

    IMO the first choice is CBT, if necessary augmented by medication, be it
    a benzo (which would be my first choice) or an AD (which would be the
    choice of most doctors).

    Philip




  11. #11
    Philip Peters Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    John schreef:

    >
    > How does having a comorbid depression affect the choice of benzo? Are
    > there some benzos that are considered to be better if one has depression
    > as well, and in that case why?



    It is a documentyed fact that Klonopin can exacerbate existing
    depression so that wouldn't be the first choice benzo (unless one aoso
    takes an AD). It is sometimes said that Xanax may have a slight
    antidepressant effect but I have not been able to find evidence for this
    - of course getting anxiety/panic under control makes one feel much better.

    >
    >> but in clinical practice it's a matter of trial and error ("YMMV").

    >
    > Ok, I see. But as far as I understand, basically any benzo will give
    > anxiety relief if the dose is high enough, and taken as often as
    > needed... or?




    Basaically, yes. For GAD taking a regular daily dose would be more
    effective than taking it *as needed*. Taking a benzo *as needed* makes
    more sense when there are panic attacks.


    If so, then I'm not sure e.g. what symptoms to look for
    > when determining if I should decide whether to try another benzo or not?
    > I mean it's not as with an AD where you only have around 40-50% chance
    > of success with any AD medication, i.e. it can completely fail to treat
    > the depression.



    Chances are that any of the "better benzos" <g> will be helpful: Xanax
    XR, Klonopin, Ativan, Valium. If the first one you try doesn;t work
    you'll know very soon because unlike ADs benzos work immediately and
    don;t need time to build up in your system (OTOH it is true that they
    fully kick in after, say, two weeks but you will know within a few hours
    if it works. If it doesn't, raise the dose. If that doesn't work, try
    another one and that will probably do the trick). An important advantage
    of benzos over ADs (apart from the lack of sexual dysfunction as a side
    effect) is the fact that they do *not* worsen anxiety in the first weeks.
    >


    >> CBT is definitely an almost mandatory choice as regards therapy.

    >
    > You mean that one should have CBT in addition to a benzo? If so, why do
    > you consider that to be mandatory? Won't a benzo at a high enough dose
    > give full anxiety relief? Or will CBT reduce the risk of having to
    > increase the dose as time goes by?



    CBT is an evidence-based therapy and most anxiety sufferers benefit a
    lot from it, sometimes to the point of not having to take meds anymore
    or being able to significantly lower the dose. This is no guarantee.
    As anxiety disorders are both biological and psychological by nature it
    makes sense to focus on both aspects. CBT teaches us to get rid of the
    *cognitive distortions* that may cause a lot of our anxiety, you learn
    to identify anxiety triggers, challenge your *irrational beliefs* around
    these triggers which in turn cause anxiety which then ledas to onwanted
    behaviour (avoidance behaviour, agoraphobia) which then leads to more
    anxiety etc., the whole vicious circle which can be broken if one has
    the right therapist and is willing to work hard. There is some evidence
    that changes in brain chemistry after a successful therapy are similar
    to those caused by medication. It's not a matter of either - or but and
    - and. IMHO.

    Philip





  12. #12
    Always Learning Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:24:30 +0200, Philip Peters
    <[email protected]> wrote this stuff here :

    >Always Learning schreef:
    >> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:04:30 +0200, "John" <[email protected]> wrote
    >> this stuff here :
    >>
    >>> I just wonder what is considered to be the best benzodiazepine for treating
    >>> GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder)?

    >>
    >> Ativan OR Klonopin, 10-15 MG's per day in divided doses.

    >
    >
    >
    >These are ridiculously high doses, especially regarding Klonopin which
    >is about four times as potent as Ativan. Moreover one should always
    >start at a low dose and give the med a few weeks in which the dose can
    >be raised until you find the therapeutic dose.
    >
    >
    >>
    >> Xanax would be terrible because of it's short half-life.

    >
    >
    >Xanax is a perfectly helpful med for GAD. *Like Ativan* it has a short
    >half life but it comes in an XR version as well which may cover you for
    >24 hours or at least for 12 hours, depending on your rate of metabolism.
    >>

    >
    >> Valium would suck because it's low grade and slow to release into your
    >> brain matter.

    >
    >
    >Valium is a good benzo too, it's less potent but the benzodiazepine
    >equivalency charts are not very reliable because our reactions to these
    >meds are so individual. If one takes Valium three times a day - in other
    >words: as a *maintenance med* - there will be no "rollercoaster effect"
    >so that the pace at which it starts to work doesn't make much of a
    >difference anymore.
    >
    >IMO the first choice is CBT, if necessary augmented by medication, be it
    >a benzo (which would be my first choice) or an AD (which would be the
    >choice of most doctors).
    >
    >Philip
    >
    >


    A psychiatrist of 35 years experience gave me this information over
    more than 1 year of appointments so I think he would know more than
    anonymous Internet people wouldn't you agree??????


  13. #13
    Always Learning Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:05:16 +0200, "John" <[email protected]> wrote
    this stuff here :

    >When you say "No one has ever been cured of an axiety/panic related illness
    >by one method alone", do you actually mean that one can be "cured" by a
    >treatment combination of benzos + CBT? I.e. that after some time if you just
    >follow what you have learnt during CBT, you won't need the benzos anymore
    >and still won't have any GAD symptoms? If so, that sounds really wonderful!
    >What do you estimate the chances are of experiencing such success? And how
    >long time does it usually take?


    For hardcore AD GAD people about 12 therapy CBT sessions per year
    combined with long term large doses of benzos. This is the experience
    of more than 1,000 man hours of therapy in the last 35 years is all.

    I guess someone might be different but sometimes people lie to get
    more pills while others are ashamed to ask for help and suffer for
    decades.



  14. #14
    Philip Peters Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    Always Learning schreef:
    > On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:24:30 +0200, Philip Peters
    > <[email protected]> wrote this stuff here :
    >
    >> Always Learning schreef:
    >>> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:04:30 +0200, "John" <[email protected]> wrote
    >>> this stuff here :
    >>>
    >>>> I just wonder what is considered to be the best benzodiazepine for treating
    >>>> GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder)?
    >>> Ativan OR Klonopin, 10-15 MG's per day in divided doses.

    >>
    >>
    >> These are ridiculously high doses, especially regarding Klonopin which
    >> is about four times as potent as Ativan. Moreover one should always
    >> start at a low dose and give the med a few weeks in which the dose can
    >> be raised until you find the therapeutic dose.
    >>
    >>
    >>> Xanax would be terrible because of it's short half-life.

    >>
    >> Xanax is a perfectly helpful med for GAD. *Like Ativan* it has a short
    >> half life but it comes in an XR version as well which may cover you for
    >> 24 hours or at least for 12 hours, depending on your rate of metabolism.
    >>> Valium would suck because it's low grade and slow to release into your
    >>> brain matter.

    >>
    >> Valium is a good benzo too, it's less potent but the benzodiazepine
    >> equivalency charts are not very reliable because our reactions to these
    >> meds are so individual. If one takes Valium three times a day - in other
    >> words: as a *maintenance med* - there will be no "rollercoaster effect"
    >> so that the pace at which it starts to work doesn't make much of a
    >> difference anymore.
    >>
    >> IMO the first choice is CBT, if necessary augmented by medication, be it
    >> a benzo (which would be my first choice) or an AD (which would be the
    >> choice of most doctors).
    >>
    >> Philip
    >>
    >>

    >
    > A psychiatrist of 35 years experience gave me this information over
    > more than 1 year of appointments so I think he would know more than
    > anonymous Internet people wouldn't you agree??????




    I wish I could. But if the misinformation about the relative potency and
    half life of benzos and the prescription of 15 mg of Klonopin really was
    given to you by this psychiatrist I would question his license to
    practice. This is the most *basic* knowledge I can think of. Of course I
    have only read your translation of his opinions but if they are
    correctly conveyed I would *run* to find another doc.
    I am not anonymous but I understand perfectly well why you would rate
    your pdocs opinion higher than that of a layman on the internet. Still I
    call 'em as I see 'em and I do have 40 years of personal experience with
    panic disorder and more than 10 years experience talking to hundreds of
    fellow sufferers, a number of therapists and psychiatrists. I have done
    my best to educate myself about this thing for obvious reasons.

    Philip

  15. #15
    John Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    >>When you say "No one has ever been cured of an axiety/panic related
    >>illness
    >>by one method alone", do you actually mean that one can be "cured" by a
    >>treatment combination of benzos + CBT? I.e. that after some time if you
    >>just
    >>follow what you have learnt during CBT, you won't need the benzos anymore
    >>and still won't have any GAD symptoms? If so, that sounds really
    >>wonderful!
    >>What do you estimate the chances are of experiencing such success? And how
    >>long time does it usually take?

    >
    > For hardcore AD GAD people about 12 therapy CBT sessions per year
    > combined with long term large doses of benzos. This is the experience
    > of more than 1,000 man hours of therapy in the last 35 years is all.
    >
    > I guess someone might be different but sometimes people lie to get
    > more pills while others are ashamed to ask for help and suffer for
    > decades.
    >


    Ok, as I interpret this, you're not saying that the regimen actually *cures*
    GAD (so that after some time no more benzos are needed), it merely combats
    the anxiety symptoms. Right?

    Also, how come CBT sessions are needed on a continuous basis? I thought you
    just went through a couple of CBT sessions (10 sessions or so), and then
    after that you had learnt the CBT technique and could practise it yourself
    without having to attend any more CBT sessions. Have I got it wrong?


    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  16. #16
    Philip Peters Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    John schreef:

    >>

    >
    > Ok, as I interpret this, you're not saying that the regimen actually
    > *cures* GAD (so that after some time no more benzos are needed), it
    > merely combats the anxiety symptoms. Right?



    There is really no *cure* for anxiety disorders. They can be managed,
    they can go in remission. Benzos can be a part of anxiety management. So
    can ADs and CBT (to only mention the most commonly effective tools).

    >
    > Also, how come CBT sessions are needed on a continuous basis? I thought
    > you just went through a couple of CBT sessions (10 sessions or so), and
    > then after that you had learnt the CBT technique and could practise it
    > yourself without having to attend any more CBT sessions. Have I got it
    > wrong?




    It all depends, it's, again, a very individual matter. For, say,
    acrophobia or even agoraphobia a course of 10-20 sessions may be enough
    if practicing *exposure* is the main tool. Exposure is the Behavioural
    aspect of CBT and can be learned and one can learn to practice it on
    one's own (it's daily *work* though).
    If the Cognitive aspect is coming into play - f.i. if exposure isn't
    enough or if it's not just a situational *phobia* but out-of-the-blue
    anxiety/panic attacks that has to be dealt with - things get much more
    complicated, it's not just a matter of *positive thinking*, as pop
    psychologists would have it. One may still learn enough in 20 sessions
    but not always. Although CBT is a here-and-now therapy the *cognitive*
    part can be quite complex as are its theoretical underpinnings.
    Challenging one's *irrational beliefs* and *restructuring distorted
    cognitions* can be learnt and remain a tool for life. Some of us need a
    refresher course every now and then, others never learn to handle their
    own cognitive distortions and yet others (many, thankfully) manage to
    learn quite quickly. It also depends on how much you want to learn, e.g.
    to read about it and of course some therapists (the good ones) teach it
    all while others (the not so good ones) don't and there are some (the
    bad ones) who say they practice CBT while they relly don;t do more than
    a watered down version of behavioural therapy, if that. The proof is in
    the pudding.

    Philip
    >
    >
    > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


  17. #17
    Yeah, Right Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    Always Learning wrote:
    :: On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:05:16 +0200, "John" <[email protected]> wrote
    :: this stuff here :
    ::
    ::: When you say "No one has ever been cured of an axiety/panic related
    ::: illness by one method alone", do you actually mean that one can be
    ::: "cured" by a treatment combination of benzos + CBT? I.e. that after
    ::: some time if you just follow what you have learnt during CBT, you
    ::: won't need the benzos anymore and still won't have any GAD
    ::: symptoms? If so, that sounds really wonderful! What do you estimate
    ::: the chances are of experiencing such success? And how long time
    ::: does it usually take?
    ::
    :: For hardcore AD GAD people about 12 therapy CBT sessions per year
    :: combined with long term large doses of benzos. This is the experience
    :: of more than 1,000 man hours of therapy in the last 35 years is all.
    ::
    :: I guess someone might be different but sometimes people lie to get
    :: more pills while others are ashamed to ask for help and suffer for
    :: decades.

    Oh my God! You're a drug addict who's lost all sense of reason and
    common-sense. You've been fooled by the pharmaceutical industry big time.



  18. #18
    Copper Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    > A psychiatrist of 35 years experience gave me this information over
    > more than 1 year of appointments so I think he would know more than
    > anonymous Internet people wouldn't you agree??????


    I've never heard of any doctor/psychiatrist that suggests as a general rule
    that people with GAD/PD take 10-15mg of klonopin or ativan a day. 10mg of
    Ativan (equal to 5mg of xanax) a day is not unheard of but is at the high
    end of a "normal" daily dosage for anxiety disorders. The highest doses of
    klonopin I'm aware of for anxiety disorders (anecdotally) are in the 5-6mg a
    day range. 10-15mg/day of klonopin would only be prescribed to epileptics.
    The rule with benzos is to start low and find the lowest dose that gets the
    job done. This is not to say that there aren't people out there being
    successfully treated on high doses of benzos. There's a guy on one of the
    boards I visit who takes 10mg of xanax a day. But that would be the
    exception and not the rule.


  19. #19
    Figaro Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 17:01:57 -0400, Always Learning wrote:

    >
    > A psychiatrist of 35 years experience gave me this information over
    > more than 1 year of appointments so I think he would know more than
    > anonymous Internet people wouldn't you agree??????


    No, I would not agree unconditionally. Go see a few other psychiatrists
    with 35 years of experience and see how many different opinions you get.

    On second thought, if your doctor prescribes these amounts on a monthly
    basis, please send me his name, address and telephone number. I'm tired of
    arguing/discussing bdz usage with members of the medical profession.

    Fig

  20. #20
    Always Learning Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 18:58:14 -0700, "Yeah, Right" <[email protected]> wrote
    this stuff here :

    >Always Learning wrote:
    >:: On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:05:16 +0200, "John" <[email protected]> wrote
    >:: this stuff here :
    >::
    >::: When you say "No one has ever been cured of an axiety/panic related
    >::: illness by one method alone", do you actually mean that one can be
    >::: "cured" by a treatment combination of benzos + CBT? I.e. that after
    >::: some time if you just follow what you have learnt during CBT, you
    >::: won't need the benzos anymore and still won't have any GAD
    >::: symptoms? If so, that sounds really wonderful! What do you estimate
    >::: the chances are of experiencing such success? And how long time
    >::: does it usually take?
    >::
    >:: For hardcore AD GAD people about 12 therapy CBT sessions per year
    >:: combined with long term large doses of benzos. This is the experience
    >:: of more than 1,000 man hours of therapy in the last 35 years is all.
    >::
    >:: I guess someone might be different but sometimes people lie to get
    >:: more pills while others are ashamed to ask for help and suffer for
    >:: decades.
    >
    >Oh my God! You're a drug addict who's lost all sense of reason and
    >common-sense. You've been fooled by the pharmaceutical industry big time.
    >



    I base my answer on PERSONAL GAD and Bipolar suffering for more than
    27 years now. Of taking dozens of various drugs in various doses, from
    loads of doctors at differing places in the US at different periods of
    time based on current diagnosis which have changed nearly every 3
    months at a time.

    Did that cover ALL the criticism? Do I need to 'cover' something else
    so that you all won't 'question' my experience with Benzos?

    Is there such as thing is experience and 'getting close' when this
    topic is discussed?

    Telling someone "be sure to ask the doctor" is NOT what the OP was
    asking us to do. The OP wanted personal experiences otherwise they
    would have asked "should I consult a doctor before asking questions on
    usenet?"

    Notice this question was posted on USENET? Did this get past anyone
    here?

    If 27 years of experience means nothing at all then I suggest a virgin
    doctor weeks out of med school has just as good judgement as a 25+
    doctor. That sounds completely silly because it IS completely silly.

    If you guys have any more questions about Benzo's please consult Jesus
    and his father named God.



    p.s. Taking 1mg of Klonopin for more than 5 years and doing VERY well.
    Addiction? Isn't addiction worries for people who PLAN on stopping the
    drug in the future? Since Klonopin is a PARTIAL cure for my problems
    then I have no plans of stopping the drug anytime soon. Since I have
    no plans to stop taking Klonopin then addiction is NOT an issue.
    As for building a tolerance to Klonopin, NOTICE I said 5 years? I
    should have began to tolerate Klonopin in just a few weeks. NOTICE how
    that is not an issue even 5 years later?

    All these 'tv show' assumptions you guys make are stupid. This isn't
    some Oprah episode, this is real experience from real people.

    If something works for you, is helping you, and you found a dose that
    is enough to help then I suggest you ****ing keep taking it!

    "An aspirin helped my last 12 headaches but I think I'll ignore the
    past and try some NEW drug for my headache.....Later on I learn that
    NEW drug was not as effective as Aspirin so what I LEARNED was to try
    yet a THIRD drug for my next headache"

    This is what we see posted in these newsgroups.

    I made the silly mistake of posting questions here in the past. But
    I've now learned that people here have various opinions based on
    untypical examples.

    You can KILL FILE me but that is ALL you can do to me.
    Keep this in mind.


  21. #21
    ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~ Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    "Always Learning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 18:58:14 -0700, "Yeah, Right" <[email protected]> wrote
    > this stuff here :
    >
    >>Always Learning wrote:
    >>:: On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:05:16 +0200, "John" <[email protected]> wrote
    >>:: this stuff here :
    >>::
    >>::: When you say "No one has ever been cured of an axiety/panic related
    >>::: illness by one method alone", do you actually mean that one can be
    >>::: "cured" by a treatment combination of benzos + CBT? I.e. that after
    >>::: some time if you just follow what you have learnt during CBT, you
    >>::: won't need the benzos anymore and still won't have any GAD
    >>::: symptoms? If so, that sounds really wonderful! What do you estimate
    >>::: the chances are of experiencing such success? And how long time
    >>::: does it usually take?
    >>::
    >>:: For hardcore AD GAD people about 12 therapy CBT sessions per year
    >>:: combined with long term large doses of benzos. This is the experience
    >>:: of more than 1,000 man hours of therapy in the last 35 years is all.
    >>::
    >>:: I guess someone might be different but sometimes people lie to get
    >>:: more pills while others are ashamed to ask for help and suffer for
    >>:: decades.
    >>
    >>Oh my God! You're a drug addict who's lost all sense of reason and
    >>common-sense. You've been fooled by the pharmaceutical industry big time.
    >>

    >
    >
    > I base my answer on PERSONAL GAD and Bipolar suffering for more than
    > 27 years now. Of taking dozens of various drugs in various doses, from
    > loads of doctors at differing places in the US at different periods of
    > time based on current diagnosis which have changed nearly every 3
    > months at a time.
    >
    > Did that cover ALL the criticism? Do I need to 'cover' something else
    > so that you all won't 'question' my experience with Benzos?
    >
    > Is there such as thing is experience and 'getting close' when this
    > topic is discussed?
    >
    > Telling someone "be sure to ask the doctor" is NOT what the OP was
    > asking us to do. The OP wanted personal experiences otherwise they
    > would have asked "should I consult a doctor before asking questions on
    > usenet?"
    >
    > Notice this question was posted on USENET? Did this get past anyone
    > here?
    >
    > If 27 years of experience means nothing at all then I suggest a virgin
    > doctor weeks out of med school has just as good judgement as a 25+
    > doctor. That sounds completely silly because it IS completely silly.
    >
    > If you guys have any more questions about Benzo's please consult Jesus
    > and his father named God.
    >
    >
    >
    > p.s. Taking 1mg of Klonopin for more than 5 years and doing VERY well.
    > Addiction? Isn't addiction worries for people who PLAN on stopping the
    > drug in the future? Since Klonopin is a PARTIAL cure for my problems
    > then I have no plans of stopping the drug anytime soon. Since I have
    > no plans to stop taking Klonopin then addiction is NOT an issue.
    > As for building a tolerance to Klonopin, NOTICE I said 5 years? I
    > should have began to tolerate Klonopin in just a few weeks. NOTICE how
    > that is not an issue even 5 years later?
    >
    > All these 'tv show' assumptions you guys make are stupid. This isn't
    > some Oprah episode, this is real experience from real people.
    >
    > If something works for you, is helping you, and you found a dose that
    > is enough to help then I suggest you ****ing keep taking it!
    >
    > "An aspirin helped my last 12 headaches but I think I'll ignore the
    > past and try some NEW drug for my headache.....Later on I learn that
    > NEW drug was not as effective as Aspirin so what I LEARNED was to try
    > yet a THIRD drug for my next headache"
    >
    > This is what we see posted in these newsgroups.
    >
    > I made the silly mistake of posting questions here in the past. But
    > I've now learned that people here have various opinions based on
    > untypical examples.
    >
    > You can KILL FILE me but that is ALL you can do to me.
    > Keep this in mind.



    Well, as long as your chocolate dancing bears help you... then I feel rest
    assured that you're not alone if we do killfile you.

    Carry on.

    --

    . )) -::-
    . .))
    Laurie
    ((. ..
    -::- (( .

    *~*LiveLoveLaugh*~*

    All that I am or hope to be, I owe to my angel mother.
    ~Abraham Lincoln

    >



  22. #22
    Always Learning Guest

    Default Re: Best benzo for treating GAD?

    On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:41:59 -0400, "~*LiveLoveLaugh*~"
    <[email protected]> wrote this stuff here :

    >"Always Learning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]. .
    >> On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 18:58:14 -0700, "Yeah, Right" <[email protected]> wrote
    >> this stuff here :
    >>
    >>>Always Learning wrote:
    >>>:: On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:05:16 +0200, "John" <[email protected]> wrote
    >>>:: this stuff here :
    >>>::
    >>>::: When you say "No one has ever been cured of an axiety/panic related
    >>>::: illness by one method alone", do you actually mean that one can be
    >>>::: "cured" by a treatment combination of benzos + CBT? I.e. that after
    >>>::: some time if you just follow what you have learnt during CBT, you
    >>>::: won't need the benzos anymore and still won't have any GAD
    >>>::: symptoms? If so, that sounds really wonderful! What do you estimate
    >>>::: the chances are of experiencing such success? And how long time
    >>>::: does it usually take?
    >>>::
    >>>:: For hardcore AD GAD people about 12 therapy CBT sessions per year
    >>>:: combined with long term large doses of benzos. This is the experience
    >>>:: of more than 1,000 man hours of therapy in the last 35 years is all.
    >>>::
    >>>:: I guess someone might be different but sometimes people lie to get
    >>>:: more pills while others are ashamed to ask for help and suffer for
    >>>:: decades.
    >>>
    >>>Oh my God! You're a drug addict who's lost all sense of reason and
    >>>common-sense. You've been fooled by the pharmaceutical industry big time.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> I base my answer on PERSONAL GAD and Bipolar suffering for more than
    >> 27 years now. Of taking dozens of various drugs in various doses, from
    >> loads of doctors at differing places in the US at different periods of
    >> time based on current diagnosis which have changed nearly every 3
    >> months at a time.
    >>
    >> Did that cover ALL the criticism? Do I need to 'cover' something else
    >> so that you all won't 'question' my experience with Benzos?
    >>
    >> Is there such as thing is experience and 'getting close' when this
    >> topic is discussed?
    >>
    >> Telling someone "be sure to ask the doctor" is NOT what the OP was
    >> asking us to do. The OP wanted personal experiences otherwise they
    >> would have asked "should I consult a doctor before asking questions on
    >> usenet?"
    >>
    >> Notice this question was posted on USENET? Did this get past anyone
    >> here?
    >>
    >> If 27 years of experience means nothing at all then I suggest a virgin
    >> doctor weeks out of med school has just as good judgement as a 25+
    >> doctor. That sounds completely silly because it IS completely silly.
    >>
    >> If you guys have any more questions about Benzo's please consult Jesus
    >> and his father named God.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> p.s. Taking 1mg of Klonopin for more than 5 years and doing VERY well.
    >> Addiction? Isn't addiction worries for people who PLAN on stopping the
    >> drug in the future? Since Klonopin is a PARTIAL cure for my problems
    >> then I have no plans of stopping the drug anytime soon. Since I have
    >> no plans to stop taking Klonopin then addiction is NOT an issue.
    >> As for building a tolerance to Klonopin, NOTICE I said 5 years? I
    >> should have began to tolerate Klonopin in just a few weeks. NOTICE how
    >> that is not an issue even 5 years later?
    >>
    >> All these 'tv show' assumptions you guys make are stupid. This isn't
    >> some Oprah episode, this is real experience from real people.
    >>
    >> If something works for you, is helping you, and you found a dose that
    >> is enough to help then I suggest you ****ing keep taking it!
    >>
    >> "An aspirin helped my last 12 headaches but I think I'll ignore the
    >> past and try some NEW drug for my headache.....Later on I learn that
    >> NEW drug was not as effective as Aspirin so what I LEARNED was to try
    >> yet a THIRD drug for my next headache"
    >>
    >> This is what we see posted in these newsgroups.
    >>
    >> I made the silly mistake of posting questions here in the past. But
    >> I've now learned that people here have various opinions based on
    >> untypical examples.
    >>
    >> You can KILL FILE me but that is ALL you can do to me.
    >> Keep this in mind.

    >
    >
    >Well, as long as your chocolate dancing bears help you... then I feel rest
    >assured that you're not alone if we do killfile you.
    >
    >Carry on.



    Yeah it's always best to ignore things that have worked in the past
    and throw caution to the wind by trying something new and untested
    when it comes to the most important thing in our life, that being our
    ****ing brain.

    nice comeback though..


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