I've had enough!

OK, first I want to apologize in advance for bringing you down--
because it will bring you down...

OK. Way back last October I started having panic attacks (to be honest
I think the word panic is a major understatement) pounding heart,
sweat, shaking, fear of imminent death; you know the drill. I would
have them every two weeks or so and would shrug them off as "my past
drug use coming back to haunt me". After a while (mid November I
recall) they started to get worse. Totally insane fear...my heart beat
was so fast and the chest pains were so bad that I called 999 (that is
EMS or 911 for all you yanks).

I got told there and then that I was having these things called panic
attacks. OK I said to the Doc "what can we do", he told me that he
would write a script for propranalol (Beta blocker) and send me off
for an ECG. Fine, I thought to myself. The beta blockers stopped my
heart racing but the adrenaline pumping and all the other symptoms
remained. What else can I do? The doctor gave me a low dose of Valium
(2 mg).

Fast-forward two weeks in early December. The benzos worked in the
short term totally alleviating my symptoms. But as I went back to get
a repeat script I was denied. Doc said no more...That I could get
hooked. I can understand this because I know how some drugs can get a
grip on you, I myself was hooked on heroin for 6 years. What pissed me
of was his reply to one simple question: what other things can we try?

His reply?

Hold on strap yourselves is for this one because it will anger you so
much you may feel the need to hit something...

"There is not much else we can do...just try not to panic and I'll see
you in 6 months..."

Errrrg....

As Christmas aproached my behavior and habits started to get weird...I
started drinking...not leaving the house, checking my pulse every
minute or so. I started having daily panic attacks...my world got
smaller and smaller...
Christmas was a disaster, by that time I was necking a bottle of
whiskey a day...On boxing day I attempted suicide...I will not go into
details other than to say it involved a sharp blade. Anyhow, I was
taken away by the police and evaluated by a psycho Doc who said that I
was "fine" and let me out the next day...

Ladies and Gents this year has not started as well as I had hoped and
it is spiraling out of control. I try to take my mind off it but I
constantly worry about my next attack. I have stopped drinking...I
have been back to the Doc's, who upped my dose of propranolol (40 mg
twice daily).

I know that pills are not the answer, but the mental health services
in this country are overstretched and it is impossible to get an
appointment.

What can I do?

I am at what some may call my "wits end"

Thank you for reading and I hope that you can offer some advice.

Tapadh leat,

Slainte,

(thats Irish for thank you and take care)

-Joe

On Apr 15, 12:30*am, Joe.P.Mann...@gmail.com wrote:
> OK, first I want to apologize in advance for bringing you down--
> because it will bring you down...
>
> OK. Way back last October I started having panic attacks (to be honest
> I think the word panic is a major understatement) pounding heart,
> sweat, shaking, fear of imminent death; you know the drill. I would
> have them every two weeks or so and would shrug them off as "my past
> drug use coming back to haunt me". After a while (mid November I
> recall) they started to get worse. Totally insane fear...my heart beat
> was so fast and the chest pains were so bad that I called 999 (that is
> EMS or 911 for all you yanks).
>
> I got told there and then that I was having these things called panic
> attacks. OK I said to the Doc "what can we do", he told me that he
> would write a script for propranalol (Beta blocker) and send me off
> for an ECG. Fine, I thought to myself. The beta blockers stopped my
> heart racing but the adrenaline pumping and all the other symptoms
> remained. What else can I do? The doctor gave me a low dose of Valium
> (2 mg).
>
> Fast-forward two weeks in early December. The benzos worked in the
> short term totally alleviating my symptoms. But as I went back to get
> a repeat script I was denied. Doc said no more...That I could get
> hooked. I can understand this because I know how some drugs can get a
> grip on you, I myself was hooked on heroin for 6 years. What pissed me
> of was his reply to one simple question: what other things can we try?
>
> His reply?
>
> Hold on strap yourselves is for this one because it will anger you so
> much you may feel the need to hit something...
>
> "There is not much else we can do...just try not to panic and I'll see
> you in 6 months..."
>
> Errrrg....
>
> As Christmas aproached my behavior and habits started to get weird...I
> started drinking...not leaving the house, checking my pulse every
> minute or so. I started having daily panic attacks...my world got
> smaller and smaller...
> Christmas was a disaster, by that time I was necking a bottle of
> whiskey a day...On boxing day I attempted suicide...I will not go into
> details other than to say it involved a sharp blade. Anyhow, I was
> taken away by the police and evaluated by a psycho Doc who said that I
> was "fine" and let me out the next day...
>
> Ladies and Gents this year has not started as well as I had hoped and
> it is spiraling out of control. I try to take my mind off it but I
> constantly worry about my next attack. I have stopped drinking...I
> have been back to the Doc's, who upped my dose of propranolol (40 mg
> twice daily).
>
> I know that pills are not the answer, but the mental health services
> in this country are overstretched and it is impossible to get an
> appointment.
>
> What can I do?
>
> I am at what some may call my "wits end"
>
> Thank you for reading and I hope that you can offer some advice.
>
> Tapadh leat,
>
> Slainte,
>
> (thats Irish for thank you and take care)
>
> -Joe

Hi Joe,
can't believe any doc would do that. Mine is totally opposite and
keeps trying out new drugs, some better than others, but this guy is
really interested in getting me better. Same story as you, had gone
to emergency a couple of times with these attacks but he's the one who
recognized it started me on meds right away about two years ago. I
would suggest looking around for another doc, it may be difficult
where you are but a doc with an attitude like that is not going to
help you.
keep your head up Joe.

I know you're right...But the procedure for changing Docs in Northern
Ireland is complex and to top it all off all the NHS (National Health
Service) Docs are full up...in my area. I'm thinking of buying online
meds if this shit goes on any longer.

Thanks for your reply.

Slainte,

-Joe

joe, don't worry about "bringing anyone down".
you have enough worries. i'm really sorry you have a bad doctor.
believe me, there are lots of them. "benzo-phobics" are the worst
when dealing with anxiety, and panic disorders. i know it will take
time, but PLEASE find another doctor. when you are setting up the
appointment, ask in advance if the doctor is able to treat people with
panic disorders. i really hope things get better for you soon. they
will, once you get a decent doctor. please don't give up on your
search. you need proper treatment. nobody should have to live this
way.

good luck,
gigglz




On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:30:05 -0700 (PDT), Joe.P.Mannion@gmail.com
wrote:

>OK, first I want to apologize in advance for bringing you down--
>because it will bring you down...
>
>OK. Way back last October I started having panic attacks (to be honest
>I think the word panic is a major understatement) pounding heart,
>sweat, shaking, fear of imminent death; you know the drill. I would
>have them every two weeks or so and would shrug them off as "my past
>drug use coming back to haunt me". After a while (mid November I
>recall) they started to get worse. Totally insane fear...my heart beat
>was so fast and the chest pains were so bad that I called 999 (that is
>EMS or 911 for all you yanks).
>
>I got told there and then that I was having these things called panic
>attacks. OK I said to the Doc "what can we do", he told me that he
>would write a script for propranalol (Beta blocker) and send me off
>for an ECG. Fine, I thought to myself. The beta blockers stopped my
>heart racing but the adrenaline pumping and all the other symptoms
>remained. What else can I do? The doctor gave me a low dose of Valium
>(2 mg).
>
>Fast-forward two weeks in early December. The benzos worked in the
>short term totally alleviating my symptoms. But as I went back to get
>a repeat script I was denied. Doc said no more...That I could get
>hooked. I can understand this because I know how some drugs can get a
>grip on you, I myself was hooked on heroin for 6 years. What pissed me
>of was his reply to one simple question: what other things can we try?
>
>His reply?
>
>Hold on strap yourselves is for this one because it will anger you so
>much you may feel the need to hit something...
>
>"There is not much else we can do...just try not to panic and I'll see
>you in 6 months..."
>
>Errrrg....
>
>As Christmas aproached my behavior and habits started to get weird...I
>started drinking...not leaving the house, checking my pulse every
>minute or so. I started having daily panic attacks...my world got
>smaller and smaller...
>Christmas was a disaster, by that time I was necking a bottle of
>whiskey a day...On boxing day I attempted suicide...I will not go into
>details other than to say it involved a sharp blade. Anyhow, I was
>taken away by the police and evaluated by a psycho Doc who said that I
>was "fine" and let me out the next day...
>
>Ladies and Gents this year has not started as well as I had hoped and
>it is spiraling out of control. I try to take my mind off it but I
>constantly worry about my next attack. I have stopped drinking...I
>have been back to the Doc's, who upped my dose of propranolol (40 mg
>twice daily).
>
>I know that pills are not the answer, but the mental health services
>in this country are overstretched and it is impossible to get an
>appointment.
>
>What can I do?
>
>I am at what some may call my "wits end"
>
>Thank you for reading and I hope that you can offer some advice.
>
>Tapadh leat,
>
>Slainte,
>
>(thats Irish for thank you and take care)
>
>-Joe
>

Joe.P.Mannion@gmail.com, wrote:

>His reply?
>
>Hold on strap yourselves is for this one because it will anger you so
>much you may feel the need to hit something...
>
>"There is not much else we can do...just try not to panic and I'll see
>you in 6 months..."

That's priceless.

I don't condone buying medications without prescriptions and without supervision
of a doctor, but have you really seen a doctor? "Just try not to panic," isn't
just cruel, it's dumb. No understanding at all of what you're going through.
I understand it only too well. I was there, right where you've been and are
(other than the blade part).

I would suggest that you learn all that you can about panic disorder. Don't
skimp on any of the books - as you can learn something more from each of them.
The cognitive and behavioral approach to panic can most certainly help. The
crime of it is that very often, without the correct medications, one isn't able
to get out enough to actually USE the cognitive and behavioral tools because the
anxiety of having an attack is far too great.

It's true, however, that you can lessen the severity of the attacks by learning
these cognitive and behavioral methods, especially if you have a good support
person to work with you and be there as you attempt any single movement outside
of whatever your comfort zone is. They have to have a total commitment to
letting you call the shots and to back off and allow you to retreat in any and
every situation when you say so. Total trust in a support person is crucial in
my opinion.

You'll have to do your own doctoring through study - and then work. Since the
medication route through normal channels doesn't appear to be available, the CBT
route may have to suffice for now (and it 'can' work). If I knew an easy way
around being able to be prescribed and monitored on medications, I'd offer it. I
don't.

This may help as a start.

http://tinyurl.com/455hej


E...

On Apr 14, 9:30*pm, Joe.P.Mann...@gmail.com wrote:
> OK, first I want to apologize in advance for bringing you down--
> because it will bring you down...
>
> OK. Way back last October I started having panic attacks (to be honest
> I think the word panic is a major understatement) pounding heart,
> sweat, shaking, fear of imminent death; you know the drill. I would
> have them every two weeks or so and would shrug them off as "my past
> drug use coming back to haunt me". After a while (mid November I
> recall) they started to get worse. Totally insane fear...my heart beat
> was so fast and the chest pains were so bad that I called 999 (that is
> EMS or 911 for all you yanks).
>
> I got told there and then that I was having these things called panic
> attacks. OK I said to the Doc "what can we do", he told me that he
> would write a script for propranalol (Beta blocker) and send me off
> for an ECG. Fine, I thought to myself. The beta blockers stopped my
> heart racing but the adrenaline pumping and all the other symptoms
> remained. What else can I do? The doctor gave me a low dose of Valium
> (2 mg).
>
> Fast-forward two weeks in early December. The benzos worked in the
> short term totally alleviating my symptoms. But as I went back to get
> a repeat script I was denied. Doc said no more...That I could get
> hooked. I can understand this because I know how some drugs can get a
> grip on you, I myself was hooked on heroin for 6 years. What pissed me
> of was his reply to one simple question: what other things can we try?
>
> His reply?
>
> Hold on strap yourselves is for this one because it will anger you so
> much you may feel the need to hit something...
>
> "There is not much else we can do...just try not to panic and I'll see
> you in 6 months..."
>
> Errrrg....
>
> As Christmas aproached my behavior and habits started to get weird...I
> started drinking...not leaving the house, checking my pulse every
> minute or so. I started having daily panic attacks...my world got
> smaller and smaller...
> Christmas was a disaster, by that time I was necking a bottle of
> whiskey a day...On boxing day I attempted suicide...I will not go into
> details other than to say it involved a sharp blade. Anyhow, I was
> taken away by the police and evaluated by a psycho Doc who said that I
> was "fine" and let me out the next day...
>
> Ladies and Gents this year has not started as well as I had hoped and
> it is spiraling out of control. I try to take my mind off it but I
> constantly worry about my next attack. I have stopped drinking...I
> have been back to the Doc's, who upped my dose of propranolol (40 mg
> twice daily).
>
> I know that pills are not the answer, but the mental health services
> in this country are overstretched and it is impossible to get an
> appointment.
>
> What can I do?
>
> I am at what some may call my "wits end"
>
> Thank you for reading and I hope that you can offer some advice.
>
> Tapadh leat,
>
> Slainte,
>
> (thats Irish for thank you and take care)
>
> -Joe

That sucks big time Joe.

I honestly don't know how you can get through this without the proper
meds. I mean you *will* get through it, but the road is going to be
so tough, until you get them.

Before diagnosed I barely made it out the door. I can understand how
desperate you feel.

I don't know anything about Ireland's health system. Is there a
waiting list that you can at least put your name on? Then you can
hold tight to that date.

In the meantime, read up on your disorder. Look for techniques to try
to help you ride through the attacks. Examples would be deep
breathing, walking, distraction.

I am not sure if this is so, and I have never had the where-with-all
to time myself, but I have heard that acute panic attacks last about
15 mins. Sometimes I tell myself, okay, 15 mins. of this shi** and
then it will be over. I try to remind myself that the attack *will*
end.

I wish you all the best,
Vickie

On 15 Apr, 20:02, Vickie <lilliputianbizz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 14, 9:30*pm, Joe.P.Mann...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > OK, first I want to apologize in advance for bringing you down--
> > because it will bring you down...
>
> > OK. Way back last October I started having panic attacks (to be honest
> > I think the word panic is a major understatement) pounding heart,
> > sweat, shaking, fear of imminent death; you know the drill. I would
> > have them every two weeks or so and would shrug them off as "my past
> > drug use coming back to haunt me". After a while (mid November I
> > recall) they started to get worse. Totally insane fear...my heart beat
> > was so fast and the chest pains were so bad that I called 999 (that is
> > EMS or 911 for all you yanks).
>
> > I got told there and then that I was having these things called panic
> > attacks. OK I said to the Doc "what can we do", he told me that he
> > would write a script for propranalol (Beta blocker) and send me off
> > for an ECG. Fine, I thought to myself. The beta blockers stopped my
> > heart racing but the adrenaline pumping and all the other symptoms
> > remained. What else can I do? The doctor gave me a low dose of Valium
> > (2 mg).
>
> > Fast-forward two weeks in early December. The benzos worked in the
> > short term totally alleviating my symptoms. But as I went back to get
> > a repeat script I was denied. Doc said no more...That I could get
> > hooked. I can understand this because I know how some drugs can get a
> > grip on you, I myself was hooked on heroin for 6 years. What pissed me
> > of was his reply to one simple question: what other things can we try?
>
> > His reply?
>
> > Hold on strap yourselves is for this one because it will anger you so
> > much you may feel the need to hit something...
>
> > "There is not much else we can do...just try not to panic and I'll see
> > you in 6 months..."
>
> > Errrrg....
>
> > As Christmas aproached my behavior and habits started to get weird...I
> > started drinking...not leaving the house, checking my pulse every
> > minute or so. I started having daily panic attacks...my world got
> > smaller and smaller...
> > Christmas was a disaster, by that time I was necking a bottle of
> > whiskey a day...On boxing day I attempted suicide...I will not go into
> > details other than to say it involved a sharp blade. Anyhow, I was
> > taken away by the police and evaluated by a psycho Doc who said that I
> > was "fine" and let me out the next day...
>
> > Ladies and Gents this year has not started as well as I had hoped and
> > it is spiraling out of control. I try to take my mind off it but I
> > constantly worry about my next attack. I have stopped drinking...I
> > have been back to the Doc's, who upped my dose of propranolol (40 mg
> > twice daily).
>
> > I know that pills are not the answer, but the mental health services
> > in this country are overstretched and it is impossible to get an
> > appointment.
>
> > What can I do?
>
> > I am at what some may call my "wits end"
>
> > Thank you for reading and I hope that you can offer some advice.
>
> > Tapadh leat,
>
> > Slainte,
>
> > (thats Irish for thank you and take care)
>
> > -Joe
>
> That sucks big time Joe.
>
> I honestly don't know how you can get through this without the proper
> meds. *I mean you *will* get through it, but the road is going to be
> so tough, until you get them.
>
> Before diagnosed I barely made it out the door. *I can understand how
> desperate you feel.
>
> I don't know anything about Ireland's health system. *Is there a
> waiting list that you can at least put your name on? *Then you can
> hold tight to that date.
>
> In the meantime, read up on your disorder. *Look for techniques to try
> to help you ride through the attacks. *Examples would be deep
> breathing, walking, distraction.
>
> I am not sure if this is so, and I have never had the where-with-all
> to time myself, but I have heard that acute panic attacks last about
> 15 mins. *Sometimes I tell myself, okay, 15 mins. of this shi** and
> then it will be over. *I try to remind myself that the attack *will*
> end.
>
> I wish you all the best,
> Vickie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks, Vickie. Yeah you're about right with the 15 minute thing and
yes I am reading my nuts off at the moment. It's all good reading.
Interesting too. I have learnt more in the last month or so than I
have in five years! In fact I would go as far as to say that it would
make "fun" reading if it was not happening to me.

I have indeed got my name down for a shrink. But they said it may take
a few months...yeah I know socialist healthcare my ass...


Bear,

Yes I am currently giving cognitive therepy a try. I walked a block
today to post a cheque for ebay, sounds dumb but I'm quite proud. I
told myself the whole time that it was just my brain f**king with me
and that even if I did have a heart attack or colapse my chances were
good and that we have the best ambulance service in Europe etc.

Boy, I tell ya, I was shattered when I came back. I almost fell asleep
on the sofa...somthing I have not done for at least 6 months!


Thank you all for your kind posts,

Slainte,

-Joe



-Joe





Yes I

Damn it google is acting crazy today!

On Apr 15, 2:51*pm, Joe.P.Mann...@googlemail.com wrote:
> On 15 Apr, 20:02, Vickie <lilliputianbizz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 14, 9:30*pm, Joe.P.Mann...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > OK, first I want to apologize in advance for bringing you down--
> > > because it will bring you down...
>
> > > OK. Way back last October I started having panic attacks (to be honest
> > > I think the word panic is a major understatement) pounding heart,
> > > sweat, shaking, fear of imminent death; you know the drill. I would
> > > have them every two weeks or so and would shrug them off as "my past
> > > drug use coming back to haunt me". After a while (mid November I
> > > recall) they started to get worse. Totally insane fear...my heart beat
> > > was so fast and the chest pains were so bad that I called 999 (that is
> > > EMS or 911 for all you yanks).
>
> > > I got told there and then that I was having these things called panic
> > > attacks. OK I said to the Doc "what can we do", he told me that he
> > > would write a script for propranalol (Beta blocker) and send me off
> > > for an ECG. Fine, I thought to myself. The beta blockers stopped my
> > > heart racing but the adrenaline pumping and all the other symptoms
> > > remained. What else can I do? The doctor gave me a low dose of Valium
> > > (2 mg).
>
> > > Fast-forward two weeks in early December. The benzos worked in the
> > > short term totally alleviating my symptoms. But as I went back to get
> > > a repeat script I was denied. Doc said no more...That I could get
> > > hooked. I can understand this because I know how some drugs can get a
> > > grip on you, I myself was hooked on heroin for 6 years. What pissed me
> > > of was his reply to one simple question: what other things can we try?
>
> > > His reply?
>
> > > Hold on strap yourselves is for this one because it will anger you so
> > > much you may feel the need to hit something...
>
> > > "There is not much else we can do...just try not to panic and I'll see
> > > you in 6 months..."
>
> > > Errrrg....
>
> > > As Christmas aproached my behavior and habits started to get weird...I
> > > started drinking...not leaving the house, checking my pulse every
> > > minute or so. I started having daily panic attacks...my world got
> > > smaller and smaller...
> > > Christmas was a disaster, by that time I was necking a bottle of
> > > whiskey a day...On boxing day I attempted suicide...I will not go into
> > > details other than to say it involved a sharp blade. Anyhow, I was
> > > taken away by the police and evaluated by a psycho Doc who said that I
> > > was "fine" and let me out the next day...
>
> > > Ladies and Gents this year has not started as well as I had hoped and
> > > it is spiraling out of control. I try to take my mind off it but I
> > > constantly worry about my next attack. I have stopped drinking...I
> > > have been back to the Doc's, who upped my dose of propranolol (40 mg
> > > twice daily).
>
> > > I know that pills are not the answer, but the mental health services
> > > in this country are overstretched and it is impossible to get an
> > > appointment.
>
> > > What can I do?
>
> > > I am at what some may call my "wits end"
>
> > > Thank you for reading and I hope that you can offer some advice.
>
> > > Tapadh leat,
>
> > > Slainte,
>
> > > (thats Irish for thank you and take care)
>
> > > -Joe
>
> > That sucks big time Joe.
>
> > I honestly don't know how you can get through this without the proper
> > meds. *I mean you *will* get through it, but the road is going to be
> > so tough, until you get them.
>
> > Before diagnosed I barely made it out the door. *I can understand how
> > desperate you feel.
>
> > I don't know anything about Ireland's health system. *Is there a
> > waiting list that you can at least put your name on? *Then you can
> > hold tight to that date.
>
> > In the meantime, read up on your disorder. *Look for techniques to try
> > to help you ride through the attacks. *Examples would be deep
> > breathing, walking, distraction.
>
> > I am not sure if this is so, and I have never had the where-with-all
> > to time myself, but I have heard that acute panic attacks last about
> > 15 mins. *Sometimes I tell myself, okay, 15 mins. of this shi** and
> > then it will be over. *I try to remind myself that the attack *will*
> > end.
>
> > I wish you all the best,
> > Vickie- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks, Vickie. Yeah you're about right with the 15 minute thing and
> yes I am reading my nuts off at the moment. It's all good reading.
> Interesting too. I have learnt more in the last month or so than I
> have in five years! In fact I would go as far as to say that it would
> make "fun" reading if it was not happening to me.
>
> I have indeed got my name down for a shrink. But they said it may take
> a few months...yeah I know socialist healthcare my ass...

lol

I read the part about you going to post your check. And it is a big
damn deal.
While I give you a virtual pat on the back, I will give myself one....
I made it to the hair salon, got a trim, and then home again. It had
been a long time.

I will hope you get the shrink call soon.

And yeah, wtf is up with google and the lag time???

Vickie

Joe.P.Mannion@googlemail.com schreef:
> Damn it google is acting crazy today!

We know for a fact that Google is a PAD-er hehe

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:54:58 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:

>Joe.P.Mannion@googlemail.com schreef:
>> Damn it google is acting crazy today!
>
>We know for a fact that Google is a PAD-er hehe

LOL :-) youz funny.

g

Gigglz schreef:
> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:54:58 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>
>> Joe.P.Mannion@googlemail.com schreef:
>>> Damn it google is acting crazy today!
>> We know for a fact that Google is a PAD-er hehe
>
> LOL :-) youz funny.
>
> g

Well .......... IT is true hahaha

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:12:34 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:

>Gigglz schreef:
>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:54:58 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>
>>> Joe.P.Mannion@googlemail.com schreef:
>>>> Damn it google is acting crazy today!
>>> We know for a fact that Google is a PAD-er hehe
>>
>> LOL :-) youz funny.
>>
>> g
>
>Well .......... IT is true hahaha

it really is :-)

Gigglz schreef:
> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:12:34 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>
>> Gigglz schreef:
>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:54:58 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joe.P.Mannion@googlemail.com schreef:
>>>>> Damn it google is acting crazy today!
>>>> We know for a fact that Google is a PAD-er hehe
>>> LOL :-) youz funny.
>>>
>>> g
>> Well .......... IT is true hahaha
>
> it really is :-)
>
Every time I invite Mr Google he tends to gets anxious ;-)

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:05:31 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:

>Gigglz schreef:
>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:12:34 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>
>>> Gigglz schreef:
>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:54:58 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Joe.P.Mannion@googlemail.com schreef:
>>>>>> Damn it google is acting crazy today!
>>>>> We know for a fact that Google is a PAD-er hehe
>>>> LOL :-) youz funny.
>>>>
>>>> g
>>> Well .......... IT is true hahaha
>>
>> it really is :-)
>>
>Every time I invite Mr Google he tends to gets anxious ;-)

perhaps some apple pie with a scoop of vanilla ice cream would help?
:-)

"Gigglz" <Frekklz@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4tnc04prbg4r65a4mf6t2s9c3s9bsrb88d@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:05:31 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>
>>Gigglz schreef:
>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:12:34 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gigglz schreef:
>>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:54:58 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe.P.Mannion@googlemail.com schreef:
>>>>>>> Damn it google is acting crazy today!
>>>>>> We know for a fact that Google is a PAD-er hehe
>>>>> LOL :-) youz funny.
>>>>>
>>>>> g
>>>> Well .......... IT is true hahaha
>>>
>>> it really is :-)
>>>
>>Every time I invite Mr Google he tends to gets anxious ;-)
>
> perhaps some apple pie with a scoop of vanilla ice cream would help?
> :-)

Yes, please... and a drizzle of caramel too?

--

·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
Laurie
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸ ·.·

*~*LiveLoveLaugh*~*

All that I am or hope to be, I owe to my angel mother.
~Abraham Lincoln

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:03:39 -0400, "~*LiveLoveLaugh*~"
<nobody@myjunkaddy.com> wrote:

>"Gigglz" <Frekklz@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:4tnc04prbg4r65a4mf6t2s9c3s9bsrb88d@4ax.com.. .
>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:05:31 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>
>>>Gigglz schreef:
>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:12:34 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Gigglz schreef:
>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:54:58 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe.P.Mannion@googlemail.com schreef:
>>>>>>>> Damn it google is acting crazy today!
>>>>>>> We know for a fact that Google is a PAD-er hehe
>>>>>> LOL :-) youz funny.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> g
>>>>> Well .......... IT is true hahaha
>>>>
>>>> it really is :-)
>>>>
>>>Every time I invite Mr Google he tends to gets anxious ;-)
>>
>> perhaps some apple pie with a scoop of vanilla ice cream would help?
>> :-)
>
>Yes, please... and a drizzle of caramel too?

i feel my ass growing!

"Gigglz" <Frekklz@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ngtc04prbg4r65a4mf6t2s9c3s9bsrb87f@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:03:39 -0400, "~*LiveLoveLaugh*~"
> <nobody@myjunkaddy.com> wrote:
>
>>"Gigglz" <Frekklz@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:4tnc04prbg4r65a4mf6t2s9c3s9bsrb88d@4ax.com. ..
>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:05:31 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Gigglz schreef:
>>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:12:34 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gigglz schreef:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:54:58 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joe.P.Mannion@googlemail.com schreef:
>>>>>>>>> Damn it google is acting crazy today!
>>>>>>>> We know for a fact that Google is a PAD-er hehe
>>>>>>> LOL :-) youz funny.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> g
>>>>>> Well .......... IT is true hahaha
>>>>>
>>>>> it really is :-)
>>>>>
>>>>Every time I invite Mr Google he tends to gets anxious ;-)
>>>
>>> perhaps some apple pie with a scoop of vanilla ice cream would help?
>>> :-)
>>
>>Yes, please... and a drizzle of caramel too?
>
> i feel my ass growing!


I feel it too! (Err, that would be my ass... not yours)!!!

--

·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
Laurie
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸ ·.·

*~*LiveLoveLaugh*~*

All that I am or hope to be, I owe to my angel mother.
~Abraham Lincoln

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:44:09 -0400, "~*LiveLoveLaugh*~"
<nobody@myjunkaddy.com> wrote:

>"Gigglz" <Frekklz@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:ngtc04prbg4r65a4mf6t2s9c3s9bsrb87f@4ax.com.. .
>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:03:39 -0400, "~*LiveLoveLaugh*~"
>> <nobody@myjunkaddy.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Gigglz" <Frekklz@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:4tnc04prbg4r65a4mf6t2s9c3s9bsrb88d@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:05:31 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Gigglz schreef:
>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:12:34 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gigglz schreef:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:54:58 +0200, Anna <kojech@planet.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joe.P.Mannion@googlemail.com schreef:
>>>>>>>>>> Damn it google is acting crazy today!
>>>>>>>>> We know for a fact that Google is a PAD-er hehe
>>>>>>>> LOL :-) youz funny.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>> Well .......... IT is true hahaha
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it really is :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>Every time I invite Mr Google he tends to gets anxious ;-)
>>>>
>>>> perhaps some apple pie with a scoop of vanilla ice cream would help?
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>>Yes, please... and a drizzle of caramel too?
>>
>> i feel my ass growing!
>
>
>I feel it too! (Err, that would be my ass... not yours)!!!

i didn't think you'd feel my ass :-)

Bear, my doctor did have me read a book about cognitive thinking disorders
(by Beck, M.D.), so I know this is a very important part of some patients'
treatments of depression and anxiety. However, in my case, it seemed too
difficult for me to keep trying to identify the discognizant thinking
pattern each and every time, so I relied mostly on the antidepressants to
eliminate most of the symptoms. I do know 2 of my most persistent and
negative thinking patterns: "All or Nothing" and "Jumping to Conclusions".
I DID read the book and could identify my own wrong thinking. Nanny

"Bear" <Bear993not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:218277070.00012804.040.0001@drn.newsguy.com.. .
> Joe.P.Mannion@gmail.com, wrote:
>
>>His reply?
>>
>>Hold on strap yourselves is for this one because it will anger you so
>>much you may feel the need to hit something...
>>
>>"There is not much else we can do...just try not to panic and I'll see
>>you in 6 months..."
>
> That's priceless.
>
> I don't condone buying medications without prescriptions and without
> supervision
> of a doctor, but have you really seen a doctor? "Just try not to panic,"
> isn't
> just cruel, it's dumb. No understanding at all of what you're going
> through.
> I understand it only too well. I was there, right where you've been and
> are
> (other than the blade part).
>
> I would suggest that you learn all that you can about panic disorder.
> Don't
> skimp on any of the books - as you can learn something more from each of
> them.
> The cognitive and behavioral approach to panic can most certainly help.
> The
> crime of it is that very often, without the correct medications, one isn't
> able
> to get out enough to actually USE the cognitive and behavioral tools
> because the
> anxiety of having an attack is far too great.
>
> It's true, however, that you can lessen the severity of the attacks by
> learning
> these cognitive and behavioral methods, especially if you have a good
> support
> person to work with you and be there as you attempt any single movement
> outside
> of whatever your comfort zone is. They have to have a total commitment to
> letting you call the shots and to back off and allow you to retreat in any
> and
> every situation when you say so. Total trust in a support person is
> crucial in
> my opinion.
>
> You'll have to do your own doctoring through study - and then work. Since
> the
> medication route through normal channels doesn't appear to be available,
> the CBT
> route may have to suffice for now (and it 'can' work). If I knew an easy
> way
> around being able to be prescribed and monitored on medications, I'd offer
> it. I
> don't.
>
> This may help as a start.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/455hej
>
>
> E...
>

Hi Joe. I take propanalol (Inderal) also. It was prescribed to me quite a
few years ago for a rapid heart beat from hyperthyroid (Grave's Disease).
It wasn't given to me for anything having to do with panic attacks, even
though racing heart is one symptom of panic. The only thing that worked to
eliminate my panic attacks was an antidepressant called Triavil (from the
family of Tricyclic AD's). Now I take 2 different types of antidepressants,
Paxil (A.M.) and Doxepin (P.M.) They both have a sedative effect, and have
been my lifesavers. Have you ever asked about AD's?

Unfortunately, clinical depression runs in my side of the family, but my son
did similarly to what you are doing: using alcohol as a self-medicating
solution, rather than admitting it's OK to have to take antidepressants. He
became a full-blown alcoholic as a result.

Also, while benzos can be addictive, I was told by my doctor many years ago
that antidepressants are NOT. It is possible to become dependent on them
(like in, gee, these are working great and I feel so much better) vs.
addiction with severe symptoms of withdrawal if stopping them, or needing
more and more of them. I'm concerned about your use of alcohol as
self-medication. I've seen first-hand from my only son how destructive that
can be. So, what do you think about AD's? Any experience? Nanny
<Joe.P.Mannion@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bd8fa725-ebc5-44c8-80e6-d2f2d991881e@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> OK, first I want to apologize in advance for bringing you down--
> because it will bring you down...
>
> OK. Way back last October I started having panic attacks (to be honest
> I think the word panic is a major understatement) pounding heart,
> sweat, shaking, fear of imminent death; you know the drill. I would
> have them every two weeks or so and would shrug them off as "my past
> drug use coming back to haunt me". After a while (mid November I
> recall) they started to get worse. Totally insane fear...my heart beat
> was so fast and the chest pains were so bad that I called 999 (that is
> EMS or 911 for all you yanks).
>
> I got told there and then that I was having these things called panic
> attacks. OK I said to the Doc "what can we do", he told me that he
> would write a script for propranalol (Beta blocker) and send me off
> for an ECG. Fine, I thought to myself. The beta blockers stopped my
> heart racing but the adrenaline pumping and all the other symptoms
> remained. What else can I do? The doctor gave me a low dose of Valium
> (2 mg).
>
> Fast-forward two weeks in early December. The benzos worked in the
> short term totally alleviating my symptoms. But as I went back to get
> a repeat script I was denied. Doc said no more...That I could get
> hooked. I can understand this because I know how some drugs can get a
> grip on you, I myself was hooked on heroin for 6 years. What pissed me
> of was his reply to one simple question: what other things can we try?
>
> His reply?
>
> Hold on strap yourselves is for this one because it will anger you so
> much you may feel the need to hit something...
>
> "There is not much else we can do...just try not to panic and I'll see
> you in 6 months..."
>
> Errrrg....
>
> As Christmas aproached my behavior and habits started to get weird...I
> started drinking...not leaving the house, checking my pulse every
> minute or so. I started having daily panic attacks...my world got
> smaller and smaller...
> Christmas was a disaster, by that time I was necking a bottle of
> whiskey a day...On boxing day I attempted suicide...I will not go into
> details other than to say it involved a sharp blade. Anyhow, I was
> taken away by the police and evaluated by a psycho Doc who said that I
> was "fine" and let me out the next day...
>
> Ladies and Gents this year has not started as well as I had hoped and
> it is spiraling out of control. I try to take my mind off it but I
> constantly worry about my next attack. I have stopped drinking...I
> have been back to the Doc's, who upped my dose of propranolol (40 mg
> twice daily).
>
> I know that pills are not the answer, but the mental health services
> in this country are overstretched and it is impossible to get an
> appointment.
>
> What can I do?
>
> I am at what some may call my "wits end"
>
> Thank you for reading and I hope that you can offer some advice.
>
> Tapadh leat,
>
> Slainte,
>
> (thats Irish for thank you and take care)
>
> -Joe
>
>

Hi Vicki. I agree with you that medication may be Joe's first line of
defense right now. I know it was my own solution to fear and panic! That
is, antidepressants. Now, even though I don't get the full-blown panic
attacks, I do from time to time feel one coming on, and as you also said,
when that happens, I try to get in a quiet place, close my eyes and
concentrate on slow, deep breathing. It usually works for me. But, I don't
think I would have got to that point without first getting the medication
for the panic attacks in the first place.

Keep in mind that antidepressants do not necessarily mean you have
depression. For instance, Doxepin was prescribed originally for me to help
with anxiety and sleep. Nanny
"Vickie" <lilliputianbizzare@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fecb541a-7c31-4c4c-8bc4-3f7b3bf30b62@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 14, 9:30 pm, Joe.P.Mann...@gmail.com wrote:
> OK, first I want to apologize in advance for bringing you down--
> because it will bring you down...
>
> OK. Way back last October I started having panic attacks (to be honest
> I think the word panic is a major understatement) pounding heart,
> sweat, shaking, fear of imminent death; you know the drill. I would
> have them every two weeks or so and would shrug them off as "my past
> drug use coming back to haunt me". After a while (mid November I
> recall) they started to get worse. Totally insane fear...my heart beat
> was so fast and the chest pains were so bad that I called 999 (that is
> EMS or 911 for all you yanks).
>
> I got told there and then that I was having these things called panic
> attacks. OK I said to the Doc "what can we do", he told me that he
> would write a script for propranalol (Beta blocker) and send me off
> for an ECG. Fine, I thought to myself. The beta blockers stopped my
> heart racing but the adrenaline pumping and all the other symptoms
> remained. What else can I do? The doctor gave me a low dose of Valium
> (2 mg).
>
> Fast-forward two weeks in early December. The benzos worked in the
> short term totally alleviating my symptoms. But as I went back to get
> a repeat script I was denied. Doc said no more...That I could get
> hooked. I can understand this because I know how some drugs can get a
> grip on you, I myself was hooked on heroin for 6 years. What pissed me
> of was his reply to one simple question: what other things can we try?
>
> His reply?
>
> Hold on strap yourselves is for this one because it will anger you so
> much you may feel the need to hit something...
>
> "There is not much else we can do...just try not to panic and I'll see
> you in 6 months..."
>
> Errrrg....
>
> As Christmas aproached my behavior and habits started to get weird...I
> started drinking...not leaving the house, checking my pulse every
> minute or so. I started having daily panic attacks...my world got
> smaller and smaller...
> Christmas was a disaster, by that time I was necking a bottle of
> whiskey a day...On boxing day I attempted suicide...I will not go into
> details other than to say it involved a sharp blade. Anyhow, I was
> taken away by the police and evaluated by a psycho Doc who said that I
> was "fine" and let me out the next day...
>
> Ladies and Gents this year has not started as well as I had hoped and
> it is spiraling out of control. I try to take my mind off it but I
> constantly worry about my next attack. I have stopped drinking...I
> have been back to the Doc's, who upped my dose of propranolol (40 mg
> twice daily).
>
> I know that pills are not the answer, but the mental health services
> in this country are overstretched and it is impossible to get an
> appointment.
>
> What can I do?
>
> I am at what some may call my "wits end"
>
> Thank you for reading and I hope that you can offer some advice.
>
> Tapadh leat,
>
> Slainte,
>
> (thats Irish for thank you and take care)
>
> -Joe

That sucks big time Joe.

I honestly don't know how you can get through this without the proper
meds. I mean you *will* get through it, but the road is going to be
so tough, until you get them.

Before diagnosed I barely made it out the door. I can understand how
desperate you feel.

I don't know anything about Ireland's health system. Is there a
waiting list that you can at least put your name on? Then you can
hold tight to that date.

In the meantime, read up on your disorder. Look for techniques to try
to help you ride through the attacks. Examples would be deep
breathing, walking, distraction.

I am not sure if this is so, and I have never had the where-with-all
to time myself, but I have heard that acute panic attacks last about
15 mins. Sometimes I tell myself, okay, 15 mins. of this shi** and
then it will be over. I try to remind myself that the attack *will*
end.

I wish you all the best,
Vickie

On Apr 16, 4:56*pm, "nanny" <gloria...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> Hi Vicki. *I agree with you that medication may be Joe's first line of
> defense right now. *I know it was my own solution to fear and panic! *That
> is, antidepressants. *Now, even though I don't get the full-blown panic
> attacks, I do from time to time feel one coming on, and as you also said,
> when that happens, I try to get in a quiet place, close my eyes and
> concentrate on slow, deep breathing. *It usually works for me. *But, Idon't
> think I would have got to that point without first getting the medication
> for the panic attacks in the first place.

Same here. I was pretty much incapable of anything before meds. But
then I also didn't have anyone to talk to or know much about anything
I could do prior to diagnoses.

I am thinking Joe needs those meds, but he can't get them at this
point. So sharing anything we can come up with might help him out.

>
> Keep in mind that antidepressants do not necessarily mean you have
> depression. *For instance, Doxepin was prescribed originally for me to help
> with anxiety and sleep. *

Yep.

V


Nanny"Vickie" <lilliputianbizz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:fecb541a-7c31-4c4c-8bc4-3f7b3bf30b62@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 14, 9:30 pm, Joe.P.Mann...@gmail.com wrote:
>

nanny, wrote:

>Also, while benzos can be addictive, I was told by my doctor many years ago
>that antidepressants are NOT.

It's pretty well documented now that SSRIs cause a very similar dependence that
benzodiazepines cause.
Benzos CAN be addictive, but for most anxiety patients, they cause dependence.
Dependence is that the body becomes used to having the medication, and it just
can't be stopped suddenly. Same goes for SSRIs, just not as severe a consequence
as what can occur with benzos.

> It is possible to become dependent on them
>(like in, gee, these are working great and I feel so much better)

That wouldn't be the definition of dependence that's used in medical examples.
It's the body getting used to having a substance that can't just be stopped.
That's not the same as addiction, but it applies to most who use
benzodiazepines.

> vs. addiction with severe symptoms of withdrawal if stopping them

This applies to SSRIs in many (if not most) cases. Switching from one to another
can help, but that's also the case with benzodiazepines. It can also be pretty
damn bad when stopping caffeine cold turkey for some

>or needing more and more of them.

That's addiction, yes. It's not what most go through with benzodiazepines
though. After over 15 years on Xanax, I take far less now than I used to, but
get an even greater benefit. It's combined with an SSRI, which as you know,
isn't for depression, but for panic, anxiety, hang nails (etc., etc.) and -
truly - PMS.

> I'm concerned about your use of alcohol as self-medication.

I totally agree. There's hell to pay in the long run........

--

E...

nanny, wrote:
>
>Bear, my doctor did have me read a book about cognitive thinking disorders
>(by Beck, M.D.), so I know this is a very important part of some patients'
>treatments of depression and anxiety. However, in my case, it seemed too
>difficult for me to keep trying to identify the discognizant thinking
>pattern each and every time, so I relied mostly on the antidepressants to
>eliminate most of the symptoms. I do know 2 of my most persistent and
>negative thinking patterns: "All or Nothing" and "Jumping to Conclusions".
>I DID read the book and could identify my own wrong thinking. Nanny

Tape programs, books and all the rest were, for me, like reading a book on
playing bridge. I kinda got the idea, but not really. It's when I started to
play that what I read made perfect sense.

The same with cognitive distortions. Reading and trying to make real sense of
them and recognize them 'instantly' was near impossible.

Same as reading about bridge and then 'playing' bridge - it wasn't until I began
working with a very sharp therapist - once a week - who taught me Burns - was
able to take everything I was saying and ask "now just what are you saying in
that statement? Where is the error?"

It's in that way that I began to understand - and understand more - until it
became second nature.

A real live and top notch cognitive specialist did the trick regarding learning
just how recognize and use what I'd read about.
Just as in playing bridge, when money was on the line, I did a far better job of
recognizing when and who to finesse

--
E...

>"Bear" <Bear993not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:218277070.00012804.040.0001@drn.newsguy.com. ..
>> Joe.P.Mannion@gmail.com, wrote:
>>
>>>His reply?
>>>
>>>Hold on strap yourselves is for this one because it will anger you so
>>>much you may feel the need to hit something...
>>>
>>>"There is not much else we can do...just try not to panic and I'll see
>>>you in 6 months..."
>>
>> That's priceless.
>>
>> I don't condone buying medications without prescriptions and without
>> supervision
>> of a doctor, but have you really seen a doctor? "Just try not to panic,"
>> isn't
>> just cruel, it's dumb. No understanding at all of what you're going
>> through.
>> I understand it only too well. I was there, right where you've been and
>> are
>> (other than the blade part).
>>
>> I would suggest that you learn all that you can about panic disorder.
>> Don't
>> skimp on any of the books - as you can learn something more from each of
>> them.
>> The cognitive and behavioral approach to panic can most certainly help.
>> The
>> crime of it is that very often, without the correct medications, one isn't
>> able
>> to get out enough to actually USE the cognitive and behavioral tools
>> because the