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  #1  
Old 08-03-2008, 09:07 AM
ironjustice
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Default Acute Backache and Moderate Sciatica

"Alpha-lipoic acid (thioctic acid) can also bind to, or chelate,
metals like iron and copper."

Summary# 46512
Alpha-Lipoic Acid and Acetyl-L-Carnitine in the Treatment of Sciatica
"Thioctic Acid and acetyl-L-carnitine in the treatment of sciatic pain
caused by a herniated disc: a randomized, double-blind, comparative
study,"
Memeo A, Loiero M, et al, Clin Drug Investig, 2008; 28(8): 495-500.
(Address: Ortopedia Pediatrica, Istituto Ortopedico Gaetano Pini,
Milan, Italy).
Summary:
In a randomized, double-blind study involving 64 patients (mean age:
61 years) with acute backache and moderate sciatica, supplementation
with 600 mg/d alpha-lipoic acid (thioctic acid) was found to be more
effective than supplementation with 1180 mg/d acetyl-L-carnitine (ALC)
in improving symptoms of sciatica over a 60 day intervention period.
Greater improvements were found in patients who received thioctic
acid, as compared to ALC, in terms of: neuropathy on electromyography
(-0.19 vs. -0.09), score on the Neuropathy Impairment Score in the
Lower Limbs (-2.52 vs. -1.48), score on the Neuropathy Symptoms and
Change in the Lower Limbs (-2.16 vs. -1.42), and the Total Symptom
Score (-1.90 vs. 1.18). Furthermore, a reduced need for analgesia was
found among 71% of patients taking thioctic acid, and only 45.5% of
patients taking ALC.
The authors conclude that, "Thioctic acid 600 mg/day appears to be at
least as effective as ALC in the treatment of sciatic pain caused by a
herniated disc and may be associated with an improvement in symptom
scores and reduced need for analgesia. However, because of the limited
number of patients evaluated and the lack of a placebo control in this
trial, further studies are warranted in order to provide more
definitive results."
Keywords: SCIATICA, CHRONIC PAIN, HERNIATED DISC - Alpha-Lipoic Acid,
Thioctic Acid, Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Carnitine, Back, Buttocks, Legs
Reference:

Copyright © Vitasearch. All rights reserved.
---------------------------

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/ss03/lipoicacid.html

The Role of Lipoic Acid in Inflammation and Atherosclerosis

Alpha-lipoic acid can also bind to, or chelate, metals like iron and
copper.


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  #2  
Old 08-05-2008, 12:26 AM
Marcus Aurelius
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Default Re: Acute Backache and Moderate Sciatica

An acute back ache can have many etiologies inclusive of
osteoporosis,osteomyleitis, avascular necrosis of the bone, infectious
arthritis, osteoarthritis, bone tumors (benign and cancerous) of the
spine, spinal fractures, and other causes.The understanding of this
factor should, concomittantly be expressed as a limited applicability
of any medical procedure and/or treatment.
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  #3  
Old 08-05-2008, 01:11 AM
ironjustice
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Default Re: Acute Backache and Moderate Sciatica

On Aug 4, 3:25*pm, Marcus Aurelius <alexander...@hotmail.com>
wrote:Alpha-Lipoic Acid and Acetyl-L-Carnitine in the Treatment of
Sciatica <<

Sciatica ..

Sciatica is treated successfully with .. an iron chelator ..

Don't like it .. ?

Place an article which says .. "sciatica doesn't respond to the iron
chelator alpha-lipoic acid" .. or something like that ..

On Aug 4, 3:25 pm, Marcus Aurelius <alexander...@hotmail.com>
wrote:limited applicability of any medical procedure and/or treatment
<<

Sciatica treated with an iron chelator ..

Take home message .. ?

Sciatica treated with an iron chelator ..

Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/4rq595


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk


> An acute back ache can have many etiologies inclusive of
> osteoporosis,osteomyleitis, avascular necrosis of the bone, infectious
> arthritis, osteoarthritis, bone tumors (benign and cancerous) of the
> spine, spinal fractures, and other causes.The understanding of this
> factor should, concomittantly be expressed as a limited applicability
> of any medical procedure and/or treatment.


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  #4  
Old 08-05-2008, 02:57 AM
jay
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Default Re: Acute Backache and Moderate Sciatica

> An acute back ache can have many etiologies inclusive of
> osteoporosis,osteomyleitis, avascular necrosis of the bone, infectious
> arthritis, osteoarthritis, bone tumors (benign and cancerous) of the
> spine, spinal fractures, and other causes.The understanding of this
> factor should, concomittantly be expressed as a limited applicability
> of any medical procedure and/or treatment.


Also, various lipophilic Persistent Organic Pollutants (ie dioxin) can
cause sciatica. After being released into atmosphere, land, rivers and
lakes, it biomagnifies as it moves up the food chain. Meat, fish,
poultry, egg and dairy fats provide the most POPs. Fish raised in
polluted waters or animals raised on contaminated feed can be
especially high. In humans, POPs accumulate in body fat and nervous
system. TCDD, a potent form of dioxin, can cause cellular ROS via
multiple pathways including one that uses iron. Ingestion of low
levels of POPs over many year can result in slowing developing
symptoms that are very difficult to track down.
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  #5  
Old 08-05-2008, 03:36 AM
ironjustice
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Default Re: Acute Backache and Moderate Sciatica

On Aug 4, 6:34*pm, jay <jaym1...@hotmail.com> wrote: snip <<

Iron chelator relieves .. sciatica ..

You really are making it rather hard to understand what the article ..
says ..

Iron chelator relieves .. sciatica ..

If you .. wish .. to .. wax .. onnnnn .. about HOW sciatica is ..
caused .. or how it CAN be caused .. or HOW .. mannnnnyyyyyy .. ways
it .. can be .. caused .. it really is .. unproductive ..

If your doctor mentions sciatica TO .. you .. or if you EVER ..
'wondered' IF you DO .. have ..sciatica .. then .. ?

Remember this ..

Iron chelator relieves .. sciatica.

THAT is **all** the article .. says.

Which means .. again .. cup half full .. that an iron chelator MAY ..
possibly .. work .. IN .. sciatica.

Sciatica .. is .. painful .. ?

Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/4rq595


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk



> > An acute back ache can have many etiologies inclusive of
> > osteoporosis,osteomyleitis, avascular necrosis of the bone, infectious
> > arthritis, osteoarthritis, bone tumors (benign and cancerous) of the
> > spine, spinal fractures, and other causes.The understanding of this
> > factor should, concomittantly be expressed as a limited applicability
> > of any medical procedure and/or treatment.

>
> Also, various lipophilic Persistent Organic Pollutants (ie dioxin) can
> cause sciatica. After being released into atmosphere, land, rivers and
> lakes, it biomagnifies as it moves up the food chain. Meat, fish,
> poultry, egg and dairy fats provide the most POPs. Fish raised in
> polluted waters or animals raised on contaminated feed can be
> especially high. In humans, POPs accumulate in body fat and nervous
> system. TCDD, a potent form of dioxin, can cause cellular ROS via
> multiple pathways including one that uses iron. Ingestion of low
> levels of POPs over many year can result in slowing developing
> symptoms that are very difficult to track down.


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  #6  
Old 08-05-2008, 05:35 AM
Donna G.
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Default Re: Acute Backache and Moderate Sciatica





And you call the rubbish that you constantly stalk the news groups with
productive??? You call the constant repeating of yourself millions of
times productive???

You even admit that this so called problem solver "may" help - even YOU
admit it isn't a for sure thing that can be proven!

Bwaaaaahhhhhaaaaaaaaahaaaaahaaaaa

Get off OUR news group!!!
..
..
..
..

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  #7  
Old 08-05-2008, 05:35 AM
jay
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Default Re: Acute Backache and Moderate Sciatica

> > TCDD, a potent form of dioxin, can cause cellular ROS
> > via multiple pathways including one that uses iron.

>
> You really are making it rather hard to understand what the article ..
> says ... Iron chelator relieves .. sciatica ..


Introduction of Iron Transport by a Potent Inducer of
Aryl Hydrocarbon Hydroxylase,
2, 3, 7, 8--TetraChloroDibenzo-p-Dioxin (TCDD)

A potent enzymatic inducer, TCDD, stimulates iron transport in the
intestine of the rat. The stimulatory site in the intestine is more
available to the inducer given orally than parenterally. Effects on
intestinal absorptive mechanisms may be additional public health
hazards of enzyme inducers such as TCDD. PMID: 453921

TCDD, whose half life is 10 years in the humans, induces the above
effect in nearly any cell it gets into, including nerves. The iron is
used to construct one of many detox enzymes, one of which is shown at
http://www.p450.kvl.dk/gallery/Align..._heme_full.jpg
The raspberry-colored structures are made of iron.
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  #8  
Old 08-05-2008, 05:35 AM
ironjustice@aol.com
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Default Re: Acute Backache and Moderate Sciatica

On Aug 4, 8:13 pm, jay <jaym1...@hotmail.com> wrote: TCDD, a potent
form of dioxin, can cause cellular ROS<<

Looks like you may have to eat quite a bit though .

This seems to be an exact replica of increased iron in a mammal since
it causes such an increase in iron absorption.

It has been shown the same "accumulation of uroporphyrins" when the
iron levels in relation to vitamin C get .. skewed.



If there is more iron .. IE:"enhanced by iron" .. there is MORE ..
uroporphyrins JUST LIKE what happens in dioxin poisoning .. increased
iron at 45%.

So the Agent Orange 'problems' ARE iron related .. IE: porphyria
cutanea tarda.

Sooooo .. the 'reason' .. YOU .. 'see' the 'dioxin' .. connection is
BECAUSE you have run across an iron LOADING .. disease state /
condition / cause of all disease ..

Sooo .. you got the RESULT down.
IF everyone were poisoned by dioxin .. then you would have had the ..
exact .. pinpointed CAUSE .. but .. you fell short in THAT ..
particular department.

But you are right about the treatment ..

Iron reduction / targeting ..

"The mechanism may be oxidative in nature"

http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/sample.c...tx700176r.html

ABSTRACT

The dysfunction of hepatic heme synthesis by 2,3,7,8-tetrachlordibenzo-
p-dioxin (TCDD) in mice, enhanced by iron, leads to accumulation of
uroporphyrins I and III (uroporphyria) and resembles the human
disorder porphyria cutanea tarda (PCT) precipitated by alcohol and
estrogenic drugs.
Although consequences of TCDD are considered entirely dependent on the
aryl hydrocarbon receptor (AHR), this is not proven for uroporphyria.
Administration of TCDD (75 µg/kg) caused uroporphyria in susceptible
C57BL/6J mice with high-affinity AHR after 5 weeks (>600-fold increase
in hepatic uroporphyrins).
Transcriptomics showed significant modified gene expressions for
intermediary, heme, and iron metabolism as well as for oxidative
stress and cell injury.
Resistant low-affinity AHR DBA/2 mice (no increase in porphyrins)
showed far fewer changes.
At this dose of TCDD, persistent up-regulation of some traditional AH
battery genes occurred in both strains.
Essentiality of AHR was demonstrated with C57BL/6 Ahr knockout mice.
Elevation of hepatic uroporphyrins was 964-fold in Ahr+/+ mice, lower
in Ahr+/- (60-fold), but undetectable with Ahr-/-.
Consistent with an oxidative mechanism, iron overload enhanced
porphyria as well as general liver injury in Ahr+/+ and Ahr+/- mice
but had no interactive effect in Ahr-/-.
In contrast, when iron-treated mice received, instead of TCDD, the
heme precursor 5-aminolevulinic acid (ALA), causing uroporphyia in Ahr
+/+ mice (242-fold rise in uroporphyrins), elevation of uroporphyrins
I and III (42-fold) also occurred in Ahr-/- mice and was seemingly
associated with AHR-independent expression of Cyp1a2. The findings
prove that AHR is a key factor in porphyria induced in mice by TCDD.
However, in other models of human PCT, participation of AHR may not be
an essential requirement.
-----------------

<<snip>>
ascorbate suppresses hepatic URO accumulation at low, but not high
hepatic iron levels
<<snip>>

Effect of iron and ascorbate on uroporphyria in ascorbate-requiring
mice as a model for porphyria cutanea tarda.
Gorman N, Zaharia A, Trask HS, Szakacs JG, Jacobs NJ, Jacobs JM,
Balestra D, Sinclair JF, Sinclair PR
Hepatology. 2006 Dec 22; 45(1): 187-194


Excess hepatic iron is known to enhance both porphyria cutanea tarda
(PCT) and experimental uroporphyria. Since previous studies have
suggested a role for ascorbate (AA) in suppressing uroporphyria in
AA-requiring rats (in the absence of excess iron), the present study
investigated whether AA could suppress uroporphyria produced by
excess
hepatic iron. Hepatic URO accumulation was produced in AA-requiring
Gulo(-/-) mice by treatment with 3,3',4,4',5-pentachlorbiphenyl, an
inducer of CYP1A2, and 5-aminolevulinic acid. Mice were administered
either sufficient AA (1000 ppm) in the drinking water to maintain
near
normal hepatic AA levels or a lower intake (75 ppm) that resulted in
70


% lower hepatic AA levels. The higher AA intake suppressed hepatic
URO
accumulation in the absence of administered iron, but not when iron
dextran (300-500 mg Fe/kg) was administered. This effect of iron was
not due to hepatic AA depletion since hepatic AA content was not
decreased. The effect of iron to prevent AA suppression of hepatic
URO
accumulation was not observed until a high hepatic iron threshold was
exceeded. At both low and high AA intakes, hepatic malondialdehyde
(MDA), an indicator of oxidative stress, was increased three-fold by
high doses of iron dextran. MDA was considerably increased even at
low
iron dextran doses, but without any increase in URO accumulation. The
level of hepatic CYP1A2 was unaffected by either AA intake.
Conclusion:


In this mouse model of PCT, AA suppresses hepatic URO accumulation at
low, but not high hepatic iron levels. These results may have
implications for the management of PCT. (HEPATOLOGY
2007;45:187-194.).


Abstract · PubMed FullText · SFX · GS Clip Export InterDB ·
Terms Related · Graph Tag · Scopus · Cites 10.1002/hep.21474


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/4rq595


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk



> > > via multiple pathways including one that uses iron.

>
> > You really are making it rather hard to understand what the article ..
> > says ... Iron chelator relieves .. sciatica ..

>
> Introduction of Iron Transport by a Potent Inducer of
> Aryl Hydrocarbon Hydroxylase,
> 2, 3, 7, 8--TetraChloroDibenzo-p-Dioxin (TCDD)
>
> A potent enzymatic inducer, TCDD, stimulates iron transport in the
> intestine of the rat. The stimulatory site in the intestine is more
> available to the inducer given orally than parenterally. Effects on
> intestinal absorptive mechanisms may be additional public health
> hazards of enzyme inducers such as TCDD. PMID: 453921
>
> TCDD, whose half life is 10 years in the humans, induces the above
> effect in nearly any cell it gets into, including nerves. The iron is
> used to construct one of many detox enzymes, one of which is shown athttp://www.p450.kvl.dk/gallery/Aligned_consensus_heme_full.jpg
> The raspberry-colored structures are made of iron.


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  #9  
Old 08-05-2008, 08:23 AM
jay
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Default Re: Acute Backache and Moderate Sciatica

> Looks like you may have to eat quite a bit though.

Currently W.H.O. recommends 4 pg of TCDD or its equivalent / kg of
body weight / day as the upper limit. A pico is 1/1,000,000,000,000
th. Small amounts present in food, especially fat, accumulates in the
human body over the years. If a person absorbs 1 pico gram today, his
level with drop to 1/2 pico gram in 10 years, assuming no more is
ingested. In the future, W.H.O. would like to lower the limit to 1 pg/
kg/day.

> http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/sample.c...02/html/tx7001...
> ... AHR is a key factor in porphyria induced in mice by TCDD.
> However, in other models of human PCT,
> participation of AHR may not be an essential requirement.
>
> IF everyone were poisoned by dioxin
> .. then you would have had the exact pinpointed CAUSE ..
> but you fell short in THAT particular department.


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...128/ai_3855058
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