OTP: What the hell are we doing wrong

[ziggy]

sorry folks,

Am just in a quandary here. I suppose like a normal parent I blame myself
for my childs failings. We now have 7 dead young people here with another
couple of dozen wounded. Something in this society has gone totally out of
whack that we are producing young who are capable and have the mentality to
shoot and kill dozens before they decide to take themselves out. Suicide has
always been a fact of life, but taking out a bunch of innocent people with
you is......? Are we not teaching regard for the value of life? Are we not
paying attention enough?
I asked Mike if he had a clue to what is driving young people to this type
of behavior. He looked at me like 'how would I know?' He did comment though
that he thought it might be like a video game where you go for a major
adrenaline rush by blowing away a bunch of whatever you are fighting in the
game.

I work about a half block from the building where the shooting happened.
Have good friends who work in that lecture hall and thankfully they are both
ok.

I am just at a total loss trying to comprehend all this and probably never
will.

sorry to dump here, but this really bothers me. It's bad enough when it
happens on the other side of the country, but in my own back yard makes it a
bit more "real"?

garyz

[Walt Hanks]

{{{{{Gary}}}}}

I understand Gary. It makes no sense at all. Last week a 15 year old boy
at my daughter's high school shot and killed his parents and his two younger
brothers, then went over to a friend's house to play video games and spend
the night.

My only suggestion is to stop trying to make sense of such behavior. You
can't, because there is no rational explanation. All we can do is grieve
our losses and move on.

My prayers are with you and all affected at NIU.

Walt

"ziggy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:hGgtj.15664$R64.14719@trndny03...
> sorry folks,
>
> Am just in a quandary here. I suppose like a normal parent I blame myself
> for my childs failings. We now have 7 dead young people here with another
> couple of dozen wounded. Something in this society has gone totally out of
> whack that we are producing young who are capable and have the mentality
> to shoot and kill dozens before they decide to take themselves out.
> Suicide has always been a fact of life, but taking out a bunch of innocent
> people with you is......? Are we not teaching regard for the value of
> life? Are we not paying attention enough?
> I asked Mike if he had a clue to what is driving young people to this type
> of behavior. He looked at me like 'how would I know?' He did comment
> though that he thought it might be like a video game where you go for a
> major adrenaline rush by blowing away a bunch of whatever you are
> fighting in the game.
>
> I work about a half block from the building where the shooting happened.
> Have good friends who work in that lecture hall and thankfully they are
> both ok.
>
> I am just at a total loss trying to comprehend all this and probably never
> will.
>
> sorry to dump here, but this really bothers me. It's bad enough when it
> happens on the other side of the country, but in my own back yard makes it
> a bit more "real"?
>
> garyz
>

[Harvey R. Stone]

"Walt Hanks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ..
> {{{{{Gary}}}}}
>
> I understand Gary. It makes no sense at all. Last week a 15 year old boy
> at my daughter's high school shot and killed his parents and his two
> younger brothers, then went over to a friend's house to play video games
> and spend the night.
>
> My only suggestion is to stop trying to make sense of such behavior. You
> can't, because there is no rational explanation. All we can do is grieve
> our losses and move on.
>
> My prayers are with you and all affected at NIU.
>
> Walt
>

Well said,,,,,,, We watch the actions of man and it seems like self
destruction because it is. The same thing is happening to our country and
we can only watch and make the best of what we can. May God bless those
that grieve for those that fall to insanity. May God continue to bless our
country.

Harv

[Joan Carter]

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:43:41 GMT, "ziggy" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I am just at a total loss trying to comprehend all this and probably never
>will.
>
>sorry to dump here, but this really bothers me. It's bad enough when it
>happens on the other side of the country, but in my own back yard makes it a
>bit more "real"?

We saw that on TV last night, Gary, and couldn't believe this
stuff keeps happening. I have no answers, but share your concern
and bewilderment, and to think it happened so close to you. Scary
stuff.

Joan

[Nann Bell]

((((((((((gary & the niu community)))))))))))))))))

i thought of you he moment i saw the report. i can't explain it, but i think
it goes far beyond video games . my thinking is that too many people are not
being taught how to deal with life's disappointments and with their own
frustrations and/or anger. video games and the widespread availability of
firearms contribute to HOW these people chose to play out their muddled
emotions, but they are not the reason those emotions are muddled. it's
something that can only be dealt with in our homes and communities. we need
to do what we can to help our children grow up emotionally healthy. and at a
time like tis we need to hug them and hold them close and let them know we
love them no matter what.

--
Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

[Nann Bell]

oh, walt, i had no idea that incident hit so very close to home for you and
your family. your community and amanda & her classmates have been in my
prayers.

--
Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare


On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 8:50:54 -0500, Walt Hanks wrote
(in message <[email protected]>):

> {{{{{Gary}}}}}
>
> I understand Gary. It makes no sense at all. Last week a 15 year old boy
> at my daughter's high school shot and killed his parents and his two younger
> brothers, then went over to a friend's house to play video games and spend
> the night.
>
> My only suggestion is to stop trying to make sense of such behavior. You
> can't, because there is no rational explanation. All we can do is grieve
> our losses and move on.
>
> My prayers are with you and all affected at NIU.
>
> Walt

[Diane]

gary, of course i have no answer to your questions, but just wanted to
say how much i admire your relationship with mike. you two have had a
rough road to travel and you've done it with such grace.

diane

[d'huit]

(((((((((((((((gary)))))))))))))) these kinds of tragic events turn many of
us inward to examine our parenting roles and the effects of our influences
on our own young.

sigh . . . uncontrolled rage, as a human condition, is nothing new in
recorded human history (ie., cain and able). berzerkers and their kind
behavior that causes so much, and this kind of, carnage has been with
humankind a long time. a friend of mine once said, and as walt implied
about such behavior, "if it were rational it wouldn't be called crazy". who
really knows what causes it. perhaps, the key lies within my friend's
statement -- an inability of the berserker to sanely rationalize?

i only know my heart goes out to the families of the victims.

kate




"ziggy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:hGgtj.15664$R64.14719@trndny03...
sorry folks,

Am just in a quandary here. I suppose like a normal parent I blame myself
for my childs failings. We now have 7 dead young people here with another
couple of dozen wounded. Something in this society has gone totally out of
whack that we are producing young who are capable and have the mentality to
shoot and kill dozens before they decide to take themselves out. Suicide has
always been a fact of life, but taking out a bunch of innocent people with
you is......? Are we not teaching regard for the value of life? Are we not
paying attention enough?
I asked Mike if he had a clue to what is driving young people to this type
of behavior. He looked at me like 'how would I know?' He did comment though
that he thought it might be like a video game where you go for a major
adrenaline rush by blowing away a bunch of whatever you are fighting in the
game.

I work about a half block from the building where the shooting happened.
Have good friends who work in that lecture hall and thankfully they are both
ok.

I am just at a total loss trying to comprehend all this and probably never
will.

sorry to dump here, but this really bothers me. It's bad enough when it
happens on the other side of the country, but in my own back yard makes it a
bit more "real"?

garyz

[ziggy]

Thank you Diane,
I'm not sure it's been as graceful as you might think though! :-)
garyz

"Diane" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> gary, of course i have no answer to your questions, but just wanted to
> say how much i admire your relationship with mike. you two have had a
> rough road to travel and you've done it with such grace.
>
> diane
>

[Kelly]

Gary,
It happened way too close to home! It doesn't feel any better though far
from there on the other side of the continent in another country (BC on the
west coast of Canada).

I don't think we can blame the person that did the killing and then killed
himself, or ourself as parents or video games . Unfortunately in one form or
another this has been going on for centuries but it was covered up (shame),
media was not as wide spread, or the truth - it was just called "mental
illness". Something wasn't right with that killer - either something in
his/her past or probably in his/her genes or maybe circumstances. Bullying
past the point of believe with maybe no support system - who knows. As
parents we can do the best we can - hug, support and be there. We can
monitor video games to our hearts content but we can't monitor what goes on
in their minds. Why can one child "snap" if you want to call it that while
another can overcome obstacles? My children watched and played the video
games - under the watchful eyes of their parents. The computer was in the
kitchen, was limited, homework was done and books were always the preferred
entertainment. I told them I didn't always like what they played but in
general let them do it - they always stopped quite quickly and it was never
an obsession. At several of their friends houses the computers were in
bedrooms, the parents didn't discuss the games but always provided unlimited
money for them, encouraged paintball regularly and their children had their
own paintball guns. I on the other hand refused to even have paintball gun
in my house - the mean mom. However, when push came to shove it was our
house the kids came to. Even though I had arthritis there were cookies
(probably store bought) or fruit plates after school when they all came in,
some conversations, hugs even for their friends if I thought they could
handle it and games in the kitchen with me in the room beside to give some
"appearance of privacy".

Who knows why this happens in a society but you are right it is out of
whack. I wish that the media didn't blow it up to make the killers seem so
"sensational". I know that everyone needs to hear about it but wonder
sometimes if the publicity is what is what is attractive to someone who is
mentally unbalanced to do this. Basically they are "immortalized" for
years. How many times will we see the JFK killing for example, or in Canada
the Montreal Tech killing. For goodness sake they even have a yearly
memorial at almost every university. Yes that makes us remember the dead
but also it again gives "glory" in a way to the killer - he gets as much
publicity as a rock star. makes you think -no one knows or cares about some
of these kids or adults and then they are on every newstand, tabloid, tv
news report. I think that might be pretty appealing especially if you were
in your unstable mind getting revenge on someone as well. Some of these
killings have been well planned and the fact that the major one before this
had videos pretaped makes me wonder.

Anyhow just my musings. Hug your kids, keep trying to communicate with them
and pray they stay safe. Sometimes that is the best any of us can do. Know
their friends, discourage bullying at any and all stages and work hard not
to pass on any racism, hatred, homophobias whatever. Tell friends you love
them and appreciate them often. Don't buy tabloids - that would help with
some of the sensationalism maybe. And encourage our society to help people
with mental illnesses and take it out of the closet. There are meds but
they still have this "horror" factor and anyone with illnesses - and we know
this- is encouraged not to tell anyone at work or society and to keep it to
themselves. Cheaper meds are encouraged despite the side effects making
people less likely to take them.

Off my ranting box. My heart breaks for your community Gary but I know it
could be any of our communities next. And as a normal parent don't blame
yourself for your child's failings. You are doing the best you can at the
time you are in. The fact that you can even ask such a question of Mike as
a teen shows you are doing an incredible job.

Kelly
"ziggy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:hGgtj.15664$R64.14719@trndny03...
> sorry folks,
>
> Am just in a quandary here. I suppose like a normal parent I blame myself
> for my childs failings. We now have 7 dead young people here with another
> couple of dozen wounded. Something in this society has gone totally out of
> whack that we are producing young who are capable and have the mentality
> to shoot and kill dozens before they decide to take themselves out.
> Suicide has always been a fact of life, but taking out a bunch of innocent
> people with you is......? Are we not teaching regard for the value of
> life? Are we not paying attention enough?
> I asked Mike if he had a clue to what is driving young people to this type
> of behavior. He looked at me like 'how would I know?' He did comment
> though that he thought it might be like a video game where you go for a
> major adrenaline rush by blowing away a bunch of whatever you are
> fighting in the game.
>
> I work about a half block from the building where the shooting happened.
> Have good friends who work in that lecture hall and thankfully they are
> both ok.
>
> I am just at a total loss trying to comprehend all this and probably never
> will.
>
> sorry to dump here, but this really bothers me. It's bad enough when it
> happens on the other side of the country, but in my own back yard makes it
> a bit more "real"?
>
> garyz
>

[Joan Carter]

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:04:42 GMT, "Kelly" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Off my ranting box. My heart breaks for your community Gary but I know it
>could be any of our communities next. And as a normal parent don't blame
>yourself for your child's failings. You are doing the best you can at the
>time you are in. The fact that you can even ask such a question of Mike as
>a teen shows you are doing an incredible job.

Kelly, you are one of the most incredibly smart people I have
ever "met". Sounds as if you are a great Mum and what you say is
so sensible. I also agree with the last sentence here. If parents
and kids talk, that is great.

Joan

[Maria]

"ziggy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:hGgtj.15664$R64.14719@trndny03...
> sorry folks,
>
> Am just in a quandary here. I suppose like a normal parent I blame myself
> for my childs failings. We now have 7 dead young people here with another
> couple of dozen wounded. Something in this society has gone totally out of
> whack that we are producing young who are capable and have the mentality
> to shoot and kill dozens before they decide to take themselves out.
> Suicide has always been a fact of life, but taking out a bunch of innocent
> people with you is......? Are we not teaching regard for the value of
> life? Are we not paying attention enough?
> I asked Mike if he had a clue to what is driving young people to this type
> of behavior. He looked at me like 'how would I know?' He did comment
> though that he thought it might be like a video game where you go for a
> major adrenaline rush by blowing away a bunch of whatever you are
> fighting in the game.
>
> I work about a half block from the building where the shooting happened.
> Have good friends who work in that lecture hall and thankfully they are
> both ok.
>
> I am just at a total loss trying to comprehend all this and probably never
> will.
>
> sorry to dump here, but this really bothers me. It's bad enough when it
> happens on the other side of the country, but in my own back yard makes it
> a bit more "real"?
>
> garyz
>
Umm, as an outsider I might say that it seems way too easy for unbalanced
kids to get hold of powerful weapons in your country...

María

[jofirey]

"ziggy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:hGgtj.15664$R64.14719@trndny03...
> sorry folks,
>
> Am just in a quandary here. I suppose like a normal parent I blame myself
> for my childs failings. We now have 7 dead young people here with another
> couple of dozen wounded. Something in this society has gone totally out of
> whack that we are producing young who are capable and have the mentality
> to shoot and kill dozens before they decide to take themselves out.
> Suicide has always been a fact of life, but taking out a bunch of innocent
> people with you is......? Are we not teaching regard for the value of
> life? Are we not paying attention enough?
> I asked Mike if he had a clue to what is driving young people to this type
> of behavior. He looked at me like 'how would I know?' He did comment
> though that he thought it might be like a video game where you go for a
> major adrenaline rush by blowing away a bunch of whatever you are
> fighting in the game.
>
> I work about a half block from the building where the shooting happened.
> Have good friends who work in that lecture hall and thankfully they are
> both ok.
>
> I am just at a total loss trying to comprehend all this and probably never
> will.
>
> sorry to dump here, but this really bothers me. It's bad enough when it
> happens on the other side of the country, but in my own back yard makes it
> a bit more "real"?
>
> garyz
>

I know all too well how much more real it feels when its local. It is so
easy to watch the news and think 'it could never happen here'.

Well, it did happen here (Wheatland California)

I really cannot fathom how young some of the children are who do this.

Jo

[Donna G.]

{{{{{{{{{{ Gary }}}}}}}}}}


You know, Gary, I think Kelly hit on a very key point in her post.
Communication! That is sooooo key as it is in all relations, but most
especially in raising children.

I think it is great that you and Mike can talk about these things and so
many more things.

Yes, you are still the parent and there will be times that Mike thinks
you are the big meanie, but that is what a parents job is: to
communicate, set rules and boundaries, talk openly about things with
your children and let them discuss their feelings as well.

I know that there are millions of incredible parents out there, but here
are just as many who don't communicate with their kids, who don't
monitor what is going on it their lives, who want to be their kids
friends and not the parent, who don't set any type of boundaries, rules,
etc. I also feel like so many kids now adays have been raised sitting
in front of computers and video games and they aren't raised to think
things through or problem solve.

You know, back in our day, you played out doors and tv and such was very
limited. By playing out doors with others, I think you learn more of
the problem solving abilities when you can't agree with the others or
you become more creative in problem solving so that you can continue to
have fun with the neighboring kids.

Then, you would sit down at dinner with your family and talk things
through from the day. Sometimes you solved things, sometimes not, but
you were always communicating. That just doesn't seem to happen as much
these day swith parents and kids.

Yes, this kind of thing has been going on for all of time, and will more
than likely continue to go on for the rest of time, but I do think in
many ways our communities and some parents have let children down by
swinging so far in the direction of not wanting to hurt their childrens
feelings or just ignore their children that the children in the long run
never truly learn the proper ways of working through difficult
situations. It also seems that so many parents now adays don't let
their children suffer the consequences of doing wrong. I hate when I
hear on the news about stories where some kids have destroyed a home or
business or made threats at school, and the parents go on national news
and say, my kid is a good boy, he just is being a kid or he didn't mean
anything by it or boys will be boys etc. What the heck does that teach
the kid?


And yes, our communities does make it way way too easy for people to get
guns and other such weaponry. And our society has made it so that the
criminals many times have more rights than the victims. Something
seriously wrong with that type of thinking.

Last night was horrific to listen about the incident near you and then
listen to the story of the fella hear in michigan who killed his wife
and chopped her up into pieces and now wants the judge to be lenient
with him during his sentencing (he doesn't feel he deserves life in
prison) because his wife wasn't tortured or anything. Oh puleeeeeze!!!

OK, ok, I'm climbing down off my soap box too!!!

Gary, holding you and Mike and your entire community in our hearts and
prayers during this most difficult and painful of times!!!


Hugs,

..
..
..
..

Donna
..
..
..
..
1.) ANGELS EXIST, but some times, since they don't all have wings, we
call them FRIENDS......


2.) J.K.M.A.

[Harvey R. Stone]

Oh my did you cover a lot of the bases of today's problems. One thing none
of us has said,,,,,,, the medications and the withdrawal from them when
stopped. I think we just do not know the side effects but we can read
about the aftermath.

Harv

"Donna G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
>
>
>
> {{{{{{{{{{ Gary }}}}}}}}}}
>
>
> You know, Gary, I think Kelly hit on a very key point in her post.
> Communication! That is sooooo key as it is in all relations, but most
> especially in raising children.
>
> I think it is great that you and Mike can talk about these things and so
> many more things.
>
> Yes, you are still the parent and there will be times that Mike thinks
> you are the big meanie, but that is what a parents job is: to
> communicate, set rules and boundaries, talk openly about things with
> your children and let them discuss their feelings as well.
>
> I know that there are millions of incredible parents out there, but here
> are just as many who don't communicate with their kids, who don't
> monitor what is going on it their lives, who want to be their kids
> friends and not the parent, who don't set any type of boundaries, rules,
> etc. I also feel like so many kids now adays have been raised sitting
> in front of computers and video games and they aren't raised to think
> things through or problem solve.
>
> You know, back in our day, you played out doors and tv and such was very
> limited. By playing out doors with others, I think you learn more of
> the problem solving abilities when you can't agree with the others or
> you become more creative in problem solving so that you can continue to
> have fun with the neighboring kids.
>
> Then, you would sit down at dinner with your family and talk things
> through from the day. Sometimes you solved things, sometimes not, but
> you were always communicating. That just doesn't seem to happen as much
> these day swith parents and kids.
>
> Yes, this kind of thing has been going on for all of time, and will more
> than likely continue to go on for the rest of time, but I do think in
> many ways our communities and some parents have let children down by
> swinging so far in the direction of not wanting to hurt their childrens
> feelings or just ignore their children that the children in the long run
> never truly learn the proper ways of working through difficult
> situations. It also seems that so many parents now adays don't let
> their children suffer the consequences of doing wrong. I hate when I
> hear on the news about stories where some kids have destroyed a home or
> business or made threats at school, and the parents go on national news
> and say, my kid is a good boy, he just is being a kid or he didn't mean
> anything by it or boys will be boys etc. What the heck does that teach
> the kid?
>
>
> And yes, our communities does make it way way too easy for people to get
> guns and other such weaponry. And our society has made it so that the
> criminals many times have more rights than the victims. Something
> seriously wrong with that type of thinking.
>
> Last night was horrific to listen about the incident near you and then
> listen to the story of the fella hear in michigan who killed his wife
> and chopped her up into pieces and now wants the judge to be lenient
> with him during his sentencing (he doesn't feel he deserves life in
> prison) because his wife wasn't tortured or anything. Oh puleeeeeze!!!
>
> OK, ok, I'm climbing down off my soap box too!!!
>
> Gary, holding you and Mike and your entire community in our hearts and
> prayers during this most difficult and painful of times!!!
>
>
> Hugs,
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> Donna
> .
> .
> .
> .
> 1.) ANGELS EXIST, but some times, since they don't all have wings, we
> call them FRIENDS......
>
>
> 2.) J.K.M.A.
>

[d'huit]

"Donna G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..



{{{{{{{{{{ Gary }}}}}}}}}}


You know, Gary, I think Kelly hit on a very key point in her post.
Communication! That is sooooo key as it is in all relations, but most
especially in raising children.

I think it is great that you and Mike can talk about these things and so
many more things.

Yes, you are still the parent and there will be times that Mike thinks
you are the big meanie, but that is what a parents job is: to
communicate, set rules and boundaries, talk openly about things with
your children and let them discuss their feelings as well.

I know that there are millions of incredible parents out there, but here
are just as many who don't communicate with their kids, who don't
monitor what is going on it their lives, who want to be their kids
friends and not the parent, who don't set any type of boundaries, rules,
etc. I also feel like so many kids now adays have been raised sitting
in front of computers and video games and they aren't raised to think
things through or problem solve.

You know, back in our day, you played out doors and tv and such was very
limited. By playing out doors with others, I think you learn more of
the problem solving abilities when you can't agree with the others or
you become more creative in problem solving so that you can continue to
have fun with the neighboring kids.

Then, you would sit down at dinner with your family and talk things
through from the day. Sometimes you solved things, sometimes not, but
you were always communicating. That just doesn't seem to happen as much
these day swith parents and kids.

Yes, this kind of thing has been going on for all of time, and will more
than likely continue to go on for the rest of time, but I do think in
many ways our communities and some parents have let children down by
swinging so far in the direction of not wanting to hurt their childrens
feelings or just ignore their children that the children in the long run
never truly learn the proper ways of working through difficult
situations. It also seems that so many parents now adays don't let
their children suffer the consequences of doing wrong. I hate when I
hear on the news about stories where some kids have destroyed a home or
business or made threats at school, and the parents go on national news
and say, my kid is a good boy, he just is being a kid or he didn't mean
anything by it or boys will be boys etc. What the heck does that teach
the kid?


And yes, our communities does make it way way too easy for people to get
guns and other such weaponry. And our society has made it so that the
criminals many times have more rights than the victims. Something
seriously wrong with that type of thinking.

Last night was horrific to listen about the incident near you and then
listen to the story of the fella hear in michigan who killed his wife
and chopped her up into pieces and now wants the judge to be lenient
with him during his sentencing (he doesn't feel he deserves life in
prison) because his wife wasn't tortured or anything. Oh puleeeeeze!!!

OK, ok, I'm climbing down off my soap box too!!!

Gary, holding you and Mike and your entire community in our hearts and
prayers during this most difficult and painful of times!!!


Hugs,

y'know, donnag, i'm not one who necessarily believes that "the olden days"
really were the "golden days" for everybody of past generations (otherwise
prisons would not have existed back then, too). and the reality is that we
need to hone our abilities to project and to apply some of the old lessons,
in our current modern ways, into those projections to get a handle on what
has been perpetuating.

i'm beginning to think video games might be an opportunity, if we find a
way to adapt this opportunity. video game programming skills are so
sophisticated now, that i believe this can be accomplished. video adventure
games, action games, mystery games, can employ and incorporate something
like a "what would happen if i did . . .?" feature (teaching a kid to think
projectively and to examine the results, to determine if the
result/consequences would be something desirable) into its games and can be
created to teach real life problem solving skills, responsibility/ethics,
consequences, thinking/analytical/rationalization skills, and etc. at all
age levels. (i'm thinking about the fred friendly panels that educationally
taught about our constitution, as well as still teach everyday ethics,
using adaptable senarios positing real life, though fictional, practical
dilemmas/quandries.) just a thought.

kate



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Donna
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1.) ANGELS EXIST, but some times, since they don't all have wings, we
call them FRIENDS......


2.) J.K.M.A.

[Donna G.]

Kate,


I'm definitely not saying that _all_ of the "good ole days" are
something to hang onto or that they were golden for many!
I'm just saying that there _were_ some things that seemed more right on
than the way some things are today. I definitely believe that every
generation has it's good and bad in it as far as how things go.

Your thoughts and ideas aren't bad either and just might be quite
helpful. Mind you, I'm not against ALL video games and such, but I do
believe that we don't need all the negative beat em up, kill em, blood
and guts type games, and that time spent on these games be limited to a
certain extent. How many parents don't monitor their childrens time
spent on these games and the kids sit and play these things for hours
and hours on end? How bout more that will challenge the mind in a
million different ways to grow and think creatively?

We don't have to agree, I was just sharing my thoughts and
ideas---imperfect as they are! I know I don't even come close to
having all the answers!

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Donna
..
..
..
..
1.) ANGELS EXIST, but some times, since they don't all have wings, we
call them FRIENDS......


2.) J.K.M.A.

[d'huit]

"Donna G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..



Kate,


I'm definitely not saying that _all_ of the "good ole days" are
something to hang onto or that they were golden for many!
I'm just saying that there _were_ some things that seemed more right on
than the way some things are today. I definitely believe that every
generation has it's good and bad in it as far as how things go.

Your thoughts and ideas aren't bad either and just might be quite
helpful. Mind you, I'm not against ALL video games and such, but I do
believe that we don't need all the negative beat em up, kill em, blood
and guts type games, and that time spent on these games be limited to a
certain extent. How many parents don't monitor their childrens time
spent on these games and the kids sit and play these things for hours
and hours on end? How bout more that will challenge the mind in a
million different ways to grow and think creatively?

We don't have to agree, I was just sharing my thoughts and
ideas---imperfect as they are! I know I don't even come close to
having all the answers!.

Donna
..
oh heavens! i'm sorry i worded that so poorly if you thought i thought you
meant that.(geesh, what a weird sentence that is, too!) i was speaking
about me. and we do agree on what you expressed. i must have been having
one of my brain fart days, when everything comes out wrong and implies what
i don't intend to imply. your shared thoughts weren't being negatively
judged by me. i was trying to just add my thoughts to yours.

i agree with what you said here, too. i think nobody has all the answers.
i think each of us holds a tiny piece of the puzzle that can be assembled
into a more complete picture.

i also think and think it is sad that some of today's parents use
video/computer games like some parents used to use television and vcrs--as a
kind of baby-sitter/live-in nanny for their kids, when the parents actually
were at home (it's almost like those parents want to feel like the kids are
not at home, as it does tend to make the kids invisible.). i suddenly can't
help wondering if today's too allowing of video games parental attitudes
aren't the product of the tv babysitter/nanny parents' attitudes--i mean is
it possibly a learned parenting behavior? i'm not sure i said that right.
hope you get what i mean.

kate