6 week post surgery update....

I had my 6 week checkup post surgery on March 20th yesterday.

The lab report on the tissue which was removed is encouraging. T2 cancer but apparently confined to the prostate. Gleason: 3+3 (6).

Unfortunately, I'm still incontinent and that is supposed to improve even more with time but I will have some residual incontinence for the rest of my life.

Although Viagra is not working for me, the doctor says I should stay on it to keep the blood flow going. He says I can expect little or no results for at least 6 months or so.

Good luck to anyone in the same boat or about to undergo surgery. It sure changes a lot of things.

Nick

On Thu, 08 May 2008 20:14:07 GMT, "NB" <Someone@somewhere.com> wrote:

>I had my 6 week checkup post surgery on March 20th yesterday.
>
>The lab report on the tissue which was removed is encouraging. T2 cancer but apparently confined to the prostate. Gleason: 3+3 (6).

WooHoo! Confined == Good Thing!
>
>Unfortunately, I'm still incontinent and that is supposed to improve even more with time but I will have some residual incontinence for the rest of my life.

Yeah, the "forever" thing was the drift I got from visiting the nurse last week
who instructed me in Kegel in preparation for RALRP.

I'm hoping against hope for "dry" eventually.

Surgery is a week from next Tuesday - am actually hoping to get dry or close by
next November, as there is a job I'd like to apply for in Iraq, with the
Marines in Camp Fallujah. Not a good place for diapers - might be able to get
away with pads.
>
>Although Viagra is not working for me, the doctor says I should stay on it to keep the blood flow going. He says I can expect little or no results for at least 6 months or so.

Again, bummer. Hope that reverses for you.
>
>Good luck to anyone in the same boat or about to undergo surgery. It sure changes a lot of things.

Yeah, it'll change me to being off from work for 3 weeks. Doctor said he would
write me for that if I want. I want. Catch up on a few other things.

>Nick

"Danger Mouse" <danger_mouse@att.net> wrote in message
news:2u1a249s270h44rqvvd431joosfjj9ju80@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 08 May 2008 20:14:07 GMT, "NB" <Someone@somewhere.com> wrote:


> Yeah, the "forever" thing was the drift I got from visiting the nurse last
> week
> who instructed me in Kegel in preparation for RALRP.

They slice and dice the kegels and leave you with 1/3rd of what you started
out with. It's not so much that it's a "forever leaking" thing, as much as
it's a "forever diligence" thing. Keep what you have strong and you won't
have as much trouble -- all other things being equal.


--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04, <0.05, <0.04, <0.04, <0.1 2/12/08
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

On Sat, 10 May 2008 06:16:06 -0400, "Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com>
wrote:

>"Danger Mouse" <danger_mouse@att.net> wrote in message
>news:2u1a249s270h44rqvvd431joosfjj9ju80@4ax.com.. .
>> On Thu, 08 May 2008 20:14:07 GMT, "NB" <Someone@somewhere.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Yeah, the "forever" thing was the drift I got from visiting the nurse last
>> week
>> who instructed me in Kegel in preparation for RALRP.
>
>They slice and dice the kegels and leave you with 1/3rd of what you started
>out with. It's not so much that it's a "forever leaking" thing, as much as
>it's a "forever diligence" thing. Keep what you have strong and you won't
>have as much trouble -- all other things being equal.

Yeah, well, "I can do that" as they say, but its going to be a serious
annoyance.

Then again, I'm heading out next week to Cedar Point in Sandusky, Ohio, to ride
some of the nastiest rollercoasters in the country. There's one there that is
a woody that they built about 5 - 10 years ago, forget its name, that is so
rough that me and my buddy sometimes don't even ride it 'cuz it can be painful
(no, neither of us has back problems, the damn thing is just ROUGH), I'm not
sure any exercise will be up to that when I go do the same thing next year -
may have to do the whole damn day in diapers... and stay off that particular
coaster. But I _will_ ride... <GGG>

"Danger Mouse" <danger_mouse@att.net> wrote in message
news:2u1a249s270h44rqvvd431joosfjj9ju80@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 08 May 2008 20:14:07 GMT, "NB" <Someone@somewhere.com> wrote:
>
>>I had my 6 week checkup post surgery on March 20th yesterday.
>>
>>The lab report on the tissue which was removed is encouraging. T2 cancer
>>but apparently confined to the prostate. Gleason: 3+3 (6).
>
> WooHoo! Confined == Good Thing!

Hi! Yes, that was a relief. On the other hand, there was some involvement of
the nerves and roughly 20% or slightly more had to be removed. (both sides).

>>Unfortunately, I'm still incontinent and that is supposed to improve even
>>more with time but I will have some residual incontinence for the rest of
>>my life.
>
> Yeah, the "forever" thing was the drift I got from visiting the nurse last
> week
> who instructed me in Kegel in preparation for RALRP.
>
> I'm hoping against hope for "dry" eventually.

Do your Kegel's. They do help. It is something that is very worthwhile.

> Surgery is a week from next Tuesday - am actually hoping to get dry or
> close by
> next November, as there is a job I'd like to apply for in Iraq, with the
> Marines in Camp Fallujah. Not a good place for diapers - might be able to
> get
> away with pads.

Good luck to you! Also, best wishes that everything goes smoothly and you
have a great outcome.

>>Although Viagra is not working for me, the doctor says I should stay on
>>it to keep the blood flow going. He says I can expect little or no results
>>for at least 6 months or so.
>
> Again, bummer. Hope that reverses for you.

So far, nothing. Initially, Viagra made me sick to my stomach and gave me
one heck of a headache. I seem to be getting used to it as those effects
have lessened. However, I still do get a lot of flushing/redness in the
face.

>>Good luck to anyone in the same boat or about to undergo surgery. It sure
>>changes a lot of things.
>
> Yeah, it'll change me to being off from work for 3 weeks. Doctor said he
> would
> write me for that if I want. I want. Catch up on a few other things.

3 weeks? Which of the surgical procedures are you having done? I had the
surgery done laproscopicaly. 3 weeks is unrealistic. 8 weeks minimum if you
are healthy otherwise. I have many other health issues to deal with as well
so I won't be able to get back to work for several months if at all.

Again, good luck to you and I hope everything goes well. If you have any
other questions, feel free to ask.

All the best,

Nick

On Sat, 10 May 2008 11:30:57 GMT, "NB" <Someone@somewhere.com> wrote:

>"Danger Mouse" <danger_mouse@att.net> wrote in message
>news:2u1a249s270h44rqvvd431joosfjj9ju80@4ax.com.. .
>> On Thu, 08 May 2008 20:14:07 GMT, "NB" <Someone@somewhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I had my 6 week checkup post surgery on March 20th yesterday.
>>>
>>>The lab report on the tissue which was removed is encouraging. T2 cancer
>>>but apparently confined to the prostate. Gleason: 3+3 (6).
>>
>> WooHoo! Confined == Good Thing!
>
>Hi! Yes, that was a relief. On the other hand, there was some involvement of
>the nerves and roughly 20% or slightly more had to be removed. (both sides).

Well, removing nerves probably has something to do with the persistent ED.

>>>Unfortunately, I'm still incontinent and that is supposed to improve even
>>>more with time but I will have some residual incontinence for the rest of
>>>my life.
>>
>> Yeah, the "forever" thing was the drift I got from visiting the nurse last
>> week
>> who instructed me in Kegel in preparation for RALRP.
>>
>> I'm hoping against hope for "dry" eventually.
>
>Do your Kegel's. They do help. It is something that is very worthwhile.

Need to read this newsgroup more - that's when I remember to do 'em, just
sitting here...

>> Surgery is a week from next Tuesday - am actually hoping to get dry or
>> close by
>> next November, as there is a job I'd like to apply for in Iraq, with the
>> Marines in Camp Fallujah. Not a good place for diapers - might be able to
>> get
>> away with pads.
>
>Good luck to you! Also, best wishes that everything goes smoothly and you
>have a great outcome.

Thanks. Good outcome == not getting blown up || shot && having $50k - $60K
extra in the bank at the end.

>
>>>Although Viagra is not working for me, the doctor says I should stay on
>>>it to keep the blood flow going. He says I can expect little or no results
>>>for at least 6 months or so.
>>
>> Again, bummer. Hope that reverses for you.
>
>So far, nothing. Initially, Viagra made me sick to my stomach and gave me
>one heck of a headache. I seem to be getting used to it as those effects
>have lessened. However, I still do get a lot of flushing/redness in the
>face.

Well, keep it up unless it affects your vision.

>>>Good luck to anyone in the same boat or about to undergo surgery. It sure
>>>changes a lot of things.
>>
>> Yeah, it'll change me to being off from work for 3 weeks. Doctor said he
>> would
>> write me for that if I want. I want. Catch up on a few other things.
>
>3 weeks? Which of the surgical procedures are you having done?

Robot Assisted Laproscopic Radical Prosetectomy. My doctor said I could go
back to work at 2 weeks, but would write me for 3 if I wanted.

>I had the
>surgery done laproscopicaly. 3 weeks is unrealistic. 8 weeks minimum if you
>are healthy otherwise.

Hmmm... what is the problem? Pain? Weakness? What? Everything I've read
about this says recovery time is supposed to be much quicker than the "open"
kind of surgery.

>I have many other health issues to deal with as well
>so I won't be able to get back to work for several months if at all.

Sorry to hear it. I've been REALLY lucky that way - I only have small issues
with stuff like high cholesterol, which has, in fact, probably saved my life.
It caused me to be in my doctor's office for every 3 months, where the cancer
was detected fairly early via the blood test that goes along with that.

>Again, good luck to you and I hope everything goes well. If you have any
>other questions, feel free to ask.

Just those above. Hopefully, I'll be reasonably healed after 2 weeks like my
doctor says I should expect, and be able to take that 3rd week as a "goof off
at home" thing. Study some networking, prepare for a test that will help me
get the Iraq job.

DM

>
>All the best,
>
>Nick
>

Danger Mouse wrote:
>
> Then again, I'm heading out next week to Cedar Point in Sandusky, Ohio, to ride
> some of the nastiest rollercoasters in the country. There's one there that is
> a woody that they built about 5 - 10 years ago, forget its name, that is so
> rough that me and my buddy sometimes don't even ride it 'cuz it can be painful
> (no, neither of us has back problems, the damn thing is just ROUGH), I'm not
> sure any exercise will be up to that when I go do the same thing next year -
> may have to do the whole damn day in diapers... and stay off that particular
> coaster. But I _will_ ride... <GGG>

I'll be very curious to hear how the paradox works out: we're
theoretically dry while sitting and lying down, but surely there are
limits. But, yeah, I'd wear diapers for that, to err on the side of
caution.

OTOH, I'd have mine over my face, 'cause serious coasters would care the
.... barf ... out of me. I love and am very active in high-speed,
high-adrenaline thrill sports, but in those *I'm* in control; the
handlebars and brakes on coasters are just placebos. I get more scared
on ordinary county fair portable coasters than I do windsurfing in gale
force winds. What a waste, considering that my wife grew up minutes from
Cedar Point and we get back there fairly often.

Strap on the diapers, leave the khakis at home, and enjoy.

I.P.

NB wrote:

> 3 weeks? Which of the surgical procedures are you having done? I had the
> surgery done laproscopicaly. 3 weeks is unrealistic. 8 weeks minimum if
> you are healthy otherwise.

I think that estimate is awfully high. I had an RRP -- with a 9"
incision because they removed half my colon at the same time to get rid
of THAT unrelated cancer -- and the only thing that kept me from playing
football a month later was those mean ol' surgeons and a slight nagging
discomfort if I used my abs. I would have been adequately comfortable --
but very, very wet -- at a desk job three weeks post op.

I.P.

"Danger Mouse" <danger_mouse@att.net> wrote in message
news:m63b241ee452uhlequrlepnl86e7g6ji90@4ax.com...

>>Do your Kegel's. They do help. It is something that is very worthwhile.
>
> Need to read this newsgroup more - that's when I remember to do 'em, just
> sitting here...

Hi! You bet. They don't take a lot out of you and they are fairly easy to
do.

>>>>Although Viagra is not working for me, the doctor says I should stay on
>>>>it to keep the blood flow going. He says I can expect little or no
>>>>results
>>>>for at least 6 months or so.
>>>
>>> Again, bummer. Hope that reverses for you.

Thanks. I'll see what happens in 6 months. From chatting with other guys
who have gone through this, they say 12 to 16 months is more realistic.

> Well, keep it up unless it affects your vision.

So far, no visual side effects but it does seem to make my tinnitus worse
(tinnitus - ringing or other noise in the ears).

>>I had the surgery done laproscopicaly. 3 weeks is unrealistic. 8 weeks
>>minimum if you
>>are healthy otherwise.
>
> Hmmm... what is the problem? Pain? Weakness? What? Everything I've
> read
> about this says recovery time is supposed to be much quicker than the
> "open"
> kind of surgery.

Well, pain for about 4 weeks afterwards (for me). You may have different
results. Weakness even now. I still can't sit for more than an hour and a
half comfortably. Also, I get tired easily and have no energy. Going
shopping even for a couple of hours wipes me out and it takes a day or two
to recover afterwards. Again, your experience may be different.

>>I have many other health issues to deal with as well
>>so I won't be able to get back to work for several months if at all.
>
> Sorry to hear it. I've been REALLY lucky that way - I only have small
> issues
> with stuff like high cholesterol, which has, in fact, probably saved my
> life.
> It caused me to be in my doctor's office for every 3 months, where the
> cancer
> was detected fairly early via the blood test that goes along with that.

I have a great family doctor. He is very thorough and makes sure all the
bases are covered during the annual physical exam. I am 45 years old. There
wasn't anything particularly unusual in my PSA results but a DRE picked up a
nodule in the prostate. I got sent off to see a urologist/surgeon and they
repeated the DRE, decided to do a biopsy that same day, and next thing you
know, I'm having surgery.

>>Again, good luck to you and I hope everything goes well. If you have any
>>other questions, feel free to ask.
>
> Just those above. Hopefully, I'll be reasonably healed after 2 weeks like
> my
> doctor says I should expect, and be able to take that 3rd week as a "goof
> off
> at home" thing. Study some networking, prepare for a test that will help
> me
> get the Iraq job.
>
> DM

I wish you well and hope everything turns out OK. I really would take up
the issue of a 3 week recovery time with your doctor though. It just isn't
realistic no matter which method is used. Just my .02 worth.

Take care,

Nick

On Sat, 10 May 2008 09:00:31 -0700, "I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow>
wrote:

>NB wrote:
>
>> 3 weeks? Which of the surgical procedures are you having done? I had the
>> surgery done laproscopicaly. 3 weeks is unrealistic. 8 weeks minimum if
>> you are healthy otherwise.
>
>I think that estimate is awfully high. I had an RRP -- with a 9"
>incision because they removed half my colon at the same time to get rid
>of THAT unrelated cancer -- and the only thing that kept me from playing
>football a month later was those mean ol' surgeons and a slight nagging
>discomfort if I used my abs. I would have been adequately comfortable --
>but very, very wet -- at a desk job three weeks post op.
>
>I.P.

Thanks for the info. This is more along the lines of what I've been lead to
expect.

Can you remember about the 3 weeks point, whether "very, very wet" means "many
pads" or "full diaper?"

Thanks,

DM

Danger Mouse wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the info. This is more along the lines of what I've been lead to
> expect.

Keep in mind, though, that I'm an anedcote, not a statistic. YMMV.

> Can you remember about the 3 weeks point, whether "very, very wet" means "many
> pads" or "full diaper?"

I was still changing wet cats -- large, heavy, sagging, swamped diapers
-- 2-3 times a day for several months post op, despite my very
experienced surgeon's expectation of dryness within maybe 6 months. At
44 months I still change pads 1 to 3 times a day, and flow darn near
freely -- hence the nym -- during heavy freeform exercise. Gym workouts,
short of trampoline work, stay fairly dry (one pad is simply spotted
after 4-5 hours) because they're controlled, but heavy yardwork swamps a
pad in an hour or three and anything like basketball is pretty much
freeflowing. Good thing my thing is water sports.

Statistics say Kegels help, but 6 weeks of religious, textbook Kegels
didn't help me at all. I could send Morse code with my stream the day
after my catheter came out, but that's no guarantee of good control
overall.

I.P.

On Sat, 10 May 2008 15:18:31 -0700, "I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow>
wrote:

>Danger Mouse wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the info. This is more along the lines of what I've been lead to
>> expect.
>
>Keep in mind, though, that I'm an anedcote, not a statistic. YMMV.

Yep, although you're in the company of those that are on larger group that are
in the statistic... <G>
>
>> Can you remember about the 3 weeks point, whether "very, very wet" means "many
>> pads" or "full diaper?"
>
>I was still changing wet cats -- large, heavy, sagging, swamped diapers
>-- 2-3 times a day for several months post op, despite my very
>experienced surgeon's expectation of dryness within maybe 6 months.

Wow. Well, I'll hope that's just an anecdote outside of the larger group that
is the statistic.

If I'm doing a Niagara Falls imitation, I'm not sure how I'm going to be
discreet with diapers at work. Of course I'd like to not have that to be
public knowledge, but don't know how to get in and out of the john with spare
diaper, dirty diaper, etc., without having everyone figure out what's going on.

>At
>44 months I still change pads 1 to 3 times a day, and flow darn near
>freely -- hence the nym -- during heavy freeform exercise. Gym workouts,
>short of trampoline work, stay fairly dry (one pad is simply spotted
>after 4-5 hours) because they're controlled, but heavy yardwork swamps a
>pad in an hour or three and anything like basketball is pretty much
>freeflowing. Good thing my thing is water sports.

<G> Roger the watersports. Our gym doesn't have a trampoline, so I don't have
to avoid one for that reason.
>
>Statistics say Kegels help, but 6 weeks of religious, textbook Kegels
>didn't help me at all. I could send Morse code with my stream the day
>after my catheter came out, but that's no guarantee of good control
>overall.
>
>I.P.

Everybody's different, but its good to know how things sometimes go in order to
attempt to cope with it.

Again, thanks for the info

DM

Danger Mouse wrote:
>
> If I'm doing a Niagara Falls imitation, I'm not sure how I'm going to be
> discreet with diapers at work. Of course I'd like to not have that to be
> public knowledge, but don't know how to get in and out of the john with spare
> diaper, dirty diaper, etc., without having everyone figure out what's going on.

Nobody worth a can of beans will hold your medical problems against you.
May as well tell them you've had PC; they're going to spot you ditching
a pad some day anyway. Just inform them that the first person who makes
a wisecrack that isn't funny (if they're funny they get a break) gets to
WEAR the pad home on his or her face, or will find it in his lunchbox,
or in his car on a hot day, or his coat pocket, or briefcase ...
possibilities are endless. Once the (wet) cat's out of the bag, offer a
contest to see who can come up with the worst payback scenario. ;-)

I.P.

On Sat, 10 May 2008 22:39:34 -0700, "I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow>
wrote:

>Danger Mouse wrote:
>>
>> If I'm doing a Niagara Falls imitation, I'm not sure how I'm going to be
>> discreet with diapers at work. Of course I'd like to not have that to be
>> public knowledge, but don't know how to get in and out of the john with spare
>> diaper, dirty diaper, etc., without having everyone figure out what's going on.
>
>Nobody worth a can of beans will hold your medical problems against you.
>May as well tell them you've had PC;

I think I'd probably have about nil chance at that Iraq job if this got around.
Prolly wouldn't get considered, even if I turn out to be dry by the time the
job is actually to be performed. If I get selected but flunk the physical,
then that's another thing entirely, but getting discriminated against because
of this is something I'd like to avoid.

> they're going to spot you ditching
>a pad some day anyway.

Pads are maybe a freezer bag and a big pocket, and ditch it at home. I wear a
hoodie at work with pockets, 'cuz of the aggressive air conditioning in the
summer and just plain coolness in the winter, that can be used that way, But a
big, soggy diaper would seem to be a challenge.

>Just inform them that the first person who makes
>a wisecrack that isn't funny (if they're funny they get a break) gets to
>WEAR the pad home on his or her face, or will find it in his lunchbox,
>or in his car on a hot day, or his coat pocket, or briefcase ...
>possibilities are endless. Once the (wet) cat's out of the bag, offer a
>contest to see who can come up with the worst payback scenario. ;-)

I'm not expecting direct assault, just a lotta whispering if it becomes
known... plus maybe some negative career consequences as described above...

DM

>I.P.

On Sat, 10 May 2008 22:39:34 -0700, "I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow>
wrote:

>Danger Mouse wrote:
>>
>> If I'm doing a Niagara Falls imitation, I'm not sure how I'm going to be
>> discreet with diapers at work. Of course I'd like to not have that to be
>> public knowledge, but don't know how to get in and out of the john with spare
>> diaper, dirty diaper, etc., without having everyone figure out what's going on.
>
>Nobody worth a can of beans will hold your medical problems against you.
>May as well tell them you've had PC; they're going to spot you ditching
>a pad some day anyway. Just inform them that the first person who makes
>a wisecrack that isn't funny (if they're funny they get a break) gets to
>WEAR the pad home on his or her face, or will find it in his lunchbox,
>or in his car on a hot day, or his coat pocket, or briefcase ...
>possibilities are endless. Once the (wet) cat's out of the bag, offer a
>contest to see who can come up with the worst payback scenario. ;-)
>
>I.P.

I think I've got it.

At work, I go out to eat every noon, which only a small percentage of people at
our work do. Therefore, I am always alone in this.

If I'm exhibiting your model of 2 - 3 saturations per day, I should be good for
4 - 6 hours, so will take the opportunity to use the restaurant's rest room
where I can be more brazen about carrying something into it, say a backpack.

Changing there about midday, I should be able to avoid fiddling with it while
actually at work, _IF_ I can manage to pull it down and pull it back up
successfully to go #2 without breaking the tapes.

I've acquired 3 undershirts with a long shirttail fore and aft that has snaps
that fasten thru the crotch, so it can't accidentally "ride up" and reveal the
top of the diaper no matter how much I bend over.

Where there's a will there's a way... all I have to do is get good at applying
the diaper while standing rather than lying down - I've acquired some diapers
and have been experimenting, and this seems to be a skill requiring mastering.

DM

"Danger Mouse" <danger_mouse@att.net> wrote in message
news:301e245eruq6k29hopdnkbv51860cp9poc@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 10 May 2008 22:39:34 -0700, "I.P. Freely"
> <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow>
> wrote:
>
>>Danger Mouse wrote:
>>>
>>> If I'm doing a Niagara Falls imitation, I'm not sure how I'm going to be
>>> discreet with diapers at work. Of course I'd like to not have that to
>>> be
>>> public knowledge, but don't know how to get in and out of the john with
>>> spare
>>> diaper, dirty diaper, etc., without having everyone figure out what's
>>> going on.
>>
>>Nobody worth a can of beans will hold your medical problems against you.
>>May as well tell them you've had PC; they're going to spot you ditching
>>a pad some day anyway. Just inform them that the first person who makes
>>a wisecrack that isn't funny (if they're funny they get a break) gets to
>>WEAR the pad home on his or her face, or will find it in his lunchbox,
>>or in his car on a hot day, or his coat pocket, or briefcase ...
>>possibilities are endless. Once the (wet) cat's out of the bag, offer a
>>contest to see who can come up with the worst payback scenario. ;-)
>>
>>I.P.
>
> I think I've got it.
>
> At work, I go out to eat every noon, which only a small percentage of
> people at
> our work do. Therefore, I am always alone in this.
>
> If I'm exhibiting your model of 2 - 3 saturations per day, I should be
> good for
> 4 - 6 hours, so will take the opportunity to use the restaurant's rest
> room
> where I can be more brazen about carrying something into it, say a
> backpack.
>
> Changing there about midday, I should be able to avoid fiddling with it
> while
> actually at work, _IF_ I can manage to pull it down and pull it back up
> successfully to go #2 without breaking the tapes.
>
> I've acquired 3 undershirts with a long shirttail fore and aft that has
> snaps
> that fasten thru the crotch, so it can't accidentally "ride up" and reveal
> the
> top of the diaper no matter how much I bend over.
>
> Where there's a will there's a way... all I have to do is get good at
> applying
> the diaper while standing rather than lying down - I've acquired some
> diapers
> and have been experimenting, and this seems to be a skill requiring
> mastering.
>
> DM

DM, just as a balance against I.P.'s experience, I had an open radical
retropubic prostatectomy just about 4 years ago.I took six weeks off work
(office), though I probably could have gone back sooner. Nevertheless, when
making my appointment to have the catheter removed (two weeks post op), I
asked my Urologist if I should bring a diaper with me. He said to just bring
an incontinence pad, most guys didn't much like the diapers. I did. No
problems there.

I was going through 3-4 pads for the first month, or so, and then maybe 2-3
pads in the second month.. I don't recall any problems changing pads at
work, when necessary. By the third month, or so, I was down to 1 or 2 pads a
day. At the end of about three months, I put the pads up in the closet,
where they reside yet today. I will very occasionally spot my jockeys with a
hard sneeze or the like, but have not felt the need to wear a pad since.

You should probably go ahead and plan for the worst case scenario, but be
aware that it isn't everyone's experience.
Good luck.

--
JerryW

Please respond to group; email address is not valid

2/11/04 PSA 2.6, Suspicious DRE (age 62)
2/23/04 Biopsy: Gleason 3+4=7, T2a, left lobe
5/18/04 RRP, Path: Gleason 4+3=7, T2c, both lobes
Fully continent by 9/04
PSA through 4/22/08: <0.1

On Sun, 11 May 2008 15:51:47 GMT, "JerryW" <jerryw@seemysig.net>
wrote:

>You should probably go ahead and plan for the worst case scenario, but be
>aware that it isn't everyone's experience.
>Good luck.


I agree with Jerry. My open retropubic RP was 13 years ago and I
can't remember the exact details, but my experience was much like
Jerry's. And, like Jerry, I still can experience a small leakage of
no more than a drop or two sometimes. It's nothing more than a very
minor annoyance. So, as Jerry advises, go ahead and prepare for the
worst but expect something much better. Most of us don't have the
experience that I.P. describes.

Best wishes,
Burney
RP in 1995 (age 52)
RT in 2000
ADT (Casodex) 10/06 - 8/07
Latest PSA - 0.18

On Sun, 11 May 2008 15:51:47 GMT, "JerryW" <jerryw@seemysig.net> wrote:

>
>"Danger Mouse" <danger_mouse@att.net> wrote in message
>news:301e245eruq6k29hopdnkbv51860cp9poc@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 10 May 2008 22:39:34 -0700, "I.P. Freely"
>> <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Danger Mouse wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If I'm doing a Niagara Falls imitation, I'm not sure how I'm going to be
>>>> discreet with diapers at work. Of course I'd like to not have that to
>>>> be
>>>> public knowledge, but don't know how to get in and out of the john with
>>>> spare
>>>> diaper, dirty diaper, etc., without having everyone figure out what's
>>>> going on.
>>>
>>>Nobody worth a can of beans will hold your medical problems against you.
>>>May as well tell them you've had PC; they're going to spot you ditching
>>>a pad some day anyway. Just inform them that the first person who makes
>>>a wisecrack that isn't funny (if they're funny they get a break) gets to
>>>WEAR the pad home on his or her face, or will find it in his lunchbox,
>>>or in his car on a hot day, or his coat pocket, or briefcase ...
>>>possibilities are endless. Once the (wet) cat's out of the bag, offer a
>>>contest to see who can come up with the worst payback scenario. ;-)
>>>
>>>I.P.
>>
>> I think I've got it.
>>
>> At work, I go out to eat every noon, which only a small percentage of
>> people at
>> our work do. Therefore, I am always alone in this.
>>
>> If I'm exhibiting your model of 2 - 3 saturations per day, I should be
>> good for
>> 4 - 6 hours, so will take the opportunity to use the restaurant's rest
>> room
>> where I can be more brazen about carrying something into it, say a
>> backpack.
>>
>> Changing there about midday, I should be able to avoid fiddling with it
>> while
>> actually at work, _IF_ I can manage to pull it down and pull it back up
>> successfully to go #2 without breaking the tapes.
>>
>> I've acquired 3 undershirts with a long shirttail fore and aft that has
>> snaps
>> that fasten thru the crotch, so it can't accidentally "ride up" and reveal
>> the
>> top of the diaper no matter how much I bend over.
>>
>> Where there's a will there's a way... all I have to do is get good at
>> applying
>> the diaper while standing rather than lying down - I've acquired some
>> diapers
>> and have been experimenting, and this seems to be a skill requiring
>> mastering.
>>
>> DM
>
>DM, just as a balance against I.P.'s experience, I had an open radical
>retropubic prostatectomy just about 4 years ago.I took six weeks off work
>(office), though I probably could have gone back sooner. Nevertheless, when
>making my appointment to have the catheter removed (two weeks post op), I
>asked my Urologist if I should bring a diaper with me. He said to just bring
>an incontinence pad, most guys didn't much like the diapers. I did. No
>problems there.
>
>I was going through 3-4 pads for the first month, or so, and then maybe 2-3
>pads in the second month.. I don't recall any problems changing pads at
>work, when necessary. By the third month, or so, I was down to 1 or 2 pads a
>day. At the end of about three months, I put the pads up in the closet,
>where they reside yet today. I will very occasionally spot my jockeys with a
>hard sneeze or the like, but have not felt the need to wear a pad since.
>
>You should probably go ahead and plan for the worst case scenario, but be
>aware that it isn't everyone's experience.
>Good luck.

Thanks, Jerry. I'm hoping for your scenario, and I'm usually pretty lucky
(Hey, I've got prostate cancer, not pancreatic cancer... or AIDS, or multiple
sclerosis, or paralysis, or a lotta other nasty things) so maybe this will turn
out OK.

I suppose I could have gotten all sideways about having high cholestrol (300 if
I don't watch myself and don't take drugs) but having my doctor put me on
Lipitor caused me to have blood drawn every 3 months... which found this
cancer. Is having high cholesterol an absolutely bad thing? Not in my book.

So, if I'm doing a Niagara falls after the operation, maybe it's fate's way of
informing me that I'll just get my butt blown off if I go back to Iraq this
time. Last time was fairly uneventful after the initial rocket attack 5 days
after I got there, but there were always explosions going off, almost every
day, that you had to sit there and know that it could have just as easily done
that in your lap.

So, fingers crossed - and thanks again.

DM

On Sun, 11 May 2008 09:09:45 -0700, BH <happy@nospam.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 11 May 2008 15:51:47 GMT, "JerryW" <jerryw@seemysig.net>
>wrote:
>
>>You should probably go ahead and plan for the worst case scenario, but be
>>aware that it isn't everyone's experience.
>>Good luck.
>
>
>I agree with Jerry. My open retropubic RP was 13 years ago and I
>can't remember the exact details, but my experience was much like
>Jerry's. And, like Jerry, I still can experience a small leakage of
>no more than a drop or two sometimes. It's nothing more than a very
>minor annoyance. So, as Jerry advises, go ahead and prepare for the
>worst but expect something much better. Most of us don't have the
>experience that I.P. describes.
>
>Best wishes,
>Burney
>RP in 1995 (age 52)
>RT in 2000
>ADT (Casodex) 10/06 - 8/07
>Latest PSA - 0.18

Thanks, BH. Its also good to hear from someone other than those that had the
operation 5 years ago and are now battling heavily with tons of drugs, etc.

And, of course, there are subesquent operations to install an artificial
sphincter that are possible for the worst cases, but I probably wouldn't elect
such. OTOH, sitting in my deer blind, freezing my butt off in a wet diaper and
maybe polluting the air with the scent of that might someday change my mind...
dunno.

But probably, it won't come to that. Its just that here, you hear from a lot
of people that haven't had such great outcomes, so it kinda slants what to
expect, so its great that you posted. Thanks again,

DM

On Sun, 11 May 2008 14:45:49 GMT, Danger Mouse <danger_mouse@att.net>
wrote:

>If I'm exhibiting your model of 2 - 3 saturations per day, I should be good for
>4 - 6 hours, so will take the opportunity to use the restaurant's rest room
>where I can be more brazen about carrying something into it, say a backpack.


In fact, DM, a straw poll here showed that 80% of those undergoing
some sort of RP were eventually pad free and a cursory internet search
for post RP incontinence stats appears to be not inconsistent with
what we found here.
Of course, YMMV but the odds are strongly in your favour.
All the best for your op.

On Sun, 11 May 2008 19:15:57 +0100, rosbif wrote:

>On Sun, 11 May 2008 14:45:49 GMT, Danger Mouse <danger_mouse@att.net>
>wrote:
>
>>If I'm exhibiting your model of 2 - 3 saturations per day, I should be good for
>>4 - 6 hours, so will take the opportunity to use the restaurant's rest room
>>where I can be more brazen about carrying something into it, say a backpack.
>
>
>In fact, DM, a straw poll here showed that 80% of those undergoing
>some sort of RP were eventually pad free and a cursory internet search
>for post RP incontinence stats appears to be not inconsistent with
>what we found here.
>Of course, YMMV but the odds are strongly in your favour.
>All the best for your op.

Thanks, rosbif. 80% is a great statistic and good to know.

DM

Danger Mouse wrote:

> If I'm exhibiting [I.P.'s] model of 2 - 3 saturations per day, I should be good for
> 4 - 6 hours

The average may be 12-8 hours, but the standard deviation probably runs
about 4-5-6 hours, because I often soak a pad in an hour if doing
something unstructured like heavy, active yard work.

I.P.

BH wrote:
> go ahead and prepare for the worst

Exactly my message. That's why I suggested returning the diapers if
unneeded. Would you rather need diapers and have only pads, or vice
versa? $20 is dang cheap insurance.

> Most of us don't have the experience that I.P. describes.

Never meant to imply they did. Sorry if anyone took it that way.

I.P.

Danger Mouse wrote:
> Is having high cholesterol an absolutely bad thing? Not in my book.

Ditto for prostate cancer. Three doctors have emphasized that mine save
my life, as scanning for mets from it revealed a much more urgent and
much more threatening unrelated cancer.

I.P.

Danger Mouse wrote:
> rosbif wrote:
> a straw poll here showed that 80% of those undergoing
>> some sort of RP were eventually pad free
>
> Thanks, rosbif. 80% is a great statistic and good to know.

You may want to read that thread, Danger, before making any decisions
based on that figure. Many of those 80% added, "except for stress", to
which I say, "wet pants is wet pants". Heck, I'm dry as a bone except
for urinary stress. And the straw poll was taken and, by Rosbif
presumed, to disprove the much different 20 year statistics presented to
me by two VA incontinence specialists.

As usual, one should read the whole report before drawing conclusions.

I.P.

On Sun, 11 May 2008 06:13:25 -0400, Danger Mouse wrote
(in article <q4hd24l254feag1vg0clo6hrb6s8ets206@4ax.com>):

> Pads are maybe a freezer bag and a big pocket, and ditch it at home. I wear
a
> hoodie at work with pockets, 'cuz of the aggressive air conditioning in the
> summer and just plain coolness in the winter, that can be used that way, But

> a big, soggy diaper would seem to be a challenge.

I don't have any personal experience with incontinence but my wife has MS and
goes through periods of incontinence which are quite frustrating and
burdensome. She is/was a Nurse Practitioner and has often toyed with the
idea of using a Foley Catheter and a bag to avoid the wet diapers. Besides
being uncomfortable and a pain to change, the wet diapers can easily lead to
diaper rash, skin breakdown, etc. In addition they can leak if you are lying
down, for example.

Since I have managed to talk her out of it so far, I don't know how this
would work but she seems to think it would be less of a problem than the
diapers. It might be an option for someone who for whatever reason cannot
tolerate wet diapers.

--
Dedman

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Mon, 12 May 2008 04:48:37 -0400, Dedman <dedman.walking@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 11 May 2008 06:13:25 -0400, Danger Mouse wrote
>(in article <q4hd24l254feag1vg0clo6hrb6s8ets206@4ax.com>):
>
>> Pads are maybe a freezer bag and a big pocket, and ditch it at home. I wear
>a
>> hoodie at work with pockets, 'cuz of the aggressive air conditioning in the
>> summer and just plain coolness in the winter, that can be used that way, But
>
>> a big, soggy diaper would seem to be a challenge.
>
>I don't have any personal experience with incontinence but my wife has MS and
>goes through periods of incontinence which are quite frustrating and
>burdensome. She is/was a Nurse Practitioner and has often toyed with the
>idea of using a Foley Catheter and a bag to avoid the wet diapers. Besides
>being uncomfortable and a pain to change, the wet diapers can easily lead to
>diaper rash, skin breakdown, etc. In addition they can leak if you are lying
>down, for example.
>
>Since I have managed to talk her out of it so far, I don't know how this
>would work but she seems to think it would be less of a problem than the
>diapers. It might be an option for someone who for whatever reason cannot
>tolerate wet diapers.

Yeah, there's something called a condom catheter that men can use. It is an
infection risk. Foley catheter is a prescription item and expensive too, and
I'd probably need a better reason than simply trying to hide the diaper in
order to get a prescription.

I read someplace that using any sort of catheter is a hinderence to regaining
contienence, so am not much considering catheters unless things become
unmanageable otherwise.

Will see how it goes.

Thanks for the idea, tho.

DM

On Sun, 11 May 2008 23:05:40 -0700, "I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow>
wrote:

>Danger Mouse wrote:
>> Is having high cholesterol an absolutely bad thing? Not in my book.
>
>Ditto for prostate cancer. Three doctors have emphasized that mine save
>my life, as scanning for mets from it revealed a much more urgent and
>much more threatening unrelated cancer.
>
>I.P.

Its truly an ill wind that blows no good, eh?

On Sun, 11 May 2008 22:55:57 -0700, "I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow>
wrote:

>Danger Mouse wrote:
>
>> If I'm exhibiting [I.P.'s] model of 2 - 3 saturations per day, I should be good for
>> 4 - 6 hours
>
>The average may be 12-8 hours, but the standard deviation probably runs
>about 4-5-6 hours, because I often soak a pad in an hour if doing
>something unstructured like heavy, active yard work.
>
>I.P.


Well, 4 hours will still get me either to lunch or out the door if I'm more
careful about when I go eat. I tend toward early lunches, but that would leave
the afternoon at about 6 hours. Would have to adjust that.

DM

Dedman wrote:
>
> I don't have any personal experience with incontinence but my wife has MS and
> goes through periods of incontinence which are quite frustrating and
> burdensome. She is/was a Nurse Practitioner and has often toyed with the
> idea of using a Foley Catheter and a bag to avoid the wet diapers. Besides
> being uncomfortable and a pain to change, the wet diapers can easily lead to
> diaper rash, skin breakdown, etc. In addition they can leak if you are lying
> down, for example.
>
> Since I have managed to talk her out of it so far, I don't know how this
> would work but she seems to think it would be less of a problem than the
> diapers. It might be an option for someone who for whatever reason cannot
> tolerate wet diapers.

I surely can't trump a nurse's experience with patients, but I don't
even notice I'm wearing a pad or diaper until it is totally swamped, if
even then. They are designed to suspend the urine away from the skin,
and do their job just fine until completely saturated. I've never had
one leak whether standing, lying, or sitting, until it was totally
saturated -- think overfilled water balloon -- and I squatted down and
literally wrung it out accidentally. The only way I can tell whether
they're wet is by looking. And never a sign of skin rash despite 6
months in soaked diapers and three years in pads at all stages of soak.
And pad, as she well knows, are simple to change.

Catheters, OTOH, are irritating a hell to at least the male urethra,
often trigger UTI, probably exacerbate incontinence by letting the Kegel
muscles atrophy through disuse ... and look real strange in a bikini.

I.P.

On Sun, 11 May 2008 23:13:58 -0700, "I.P. Freely"
<fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow> wrote:

>Danger Mouse wrote:
>> rosbif wrote:
>> a straw poll here showed that 80% of those undergoing
>>> some sort of RP were eventually pad free
>>
>> Thanks, rosbif. 80% is a great statistic and good to know.
>
>You may want to read that thread, Danger, before making any decisions
>based on that figure.

DM, if IP's left you with the impression that you're likely to spend
the rest of your life needing pads, and you're going to allow this to
influence your decision, you *must* read it.

Here is the latter part of it

http://tinyurl.com/3vdnx2


> Many of those 80% added, "except for stress", to
>which I say, "wet pants is wet pants". Heck, I'm dry as a bone except
>for urinary stress. And the straw poll was taken and, by Rosbif
>presumed, to disprove the much different 20 year statistics presented to
>me by two VA incontinence specialists.

....whose central and crucial assertion - (according to IP!) - was:-
<