Changing insurance

Leonard wrote:

> Thanks for the information. I must admit I haven't looked into the
> situation that carefully. I had in mind several longer term trends.
> First, lower paid medical care workers, who traditionally were paid
> very badly, have been doing somewhat better due among other things
> to unionization.



U.S. Department of Labor, December 2007

......Occupational Title.................Medium......Mean
.........................................Hourly... ..Hourly


Emergency Medical Technicians/Paramedics..$13.01....$14.13
Dietetic Technicians......................$11.45....$12.55
Pharmacy Technicians......................$12.32....$14.64
Veterinary Technologist/Technicians.......$12.88....$13.34
Opticians, Dispensing.....................$14.57....$15.49
Home Health Aids..........................$ 9.34....$ 9.66
Nursing Aids/Orderlies....................$10.67....$11.04
Dental Assistants.........................$14.53....$14.8 3
Pharmacy Aides............................$ 9.35....$10.07
Veterinary Assistants/Animal Caretakers...$ 9.60....$10.13



> I understand that physicians are having problems maintaining their
> incomes, but those incomes are still relatively high. After all,
> $170,000 isn't chicken feed and $320,000 puts one in the upper
> stratosphere of income levels in the US.



......Occupational Title............Employed...Mean Annual

Surgeons.............................51,900......$ 184,150
Obstetricians and Gynecologists......22,520......$178,040
Orthodontists.........................5,200......$ 176,900
Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons.......5,320......$164,760
Internists, General..................48,700......$160,860
Prosthodontists.........................480......$ 158,940
Psychiatrists........................24,730......$ 149,990
Family and General Practitioners....109,400......$149,850
Physicians and Surgeons, All Other..208,960......$142,220
Pediatricians, General...............28,930......$141,440
Dentists, General....................86,110......$140,950
Podiatrists...........................9,020......$ 118,500
Dentists, All Other Specialists.......4,560......$108,340

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

Califchief wrote:
> Leonard wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the information. I must admit I haven't looked into the
> > situation that carefully. I had in mind several longer term trends.
> > First, lower paid medical care workers, who traditionally were paid
> > very badly, have been doing somewhat better due among other things
> > to unionization.
>
>
>
> U.S. Department of Labor, December 2007
>
> ......Occupational Title.................Medium......Mean
> .........................................Hourly... ..Hourly
>
>
> Emergency Medical Technicians/Paramedics..$13.01....$14.13
> Dietetic Technicians......................$11.45....$12.55
> Pharmacy Technicians......................$12.32....$14.64
> Veterinary Technologist/Technicians.......$12.88....$13.34
> Opticians, Dispensing.....................$14.57....$15.49
> Home Health Aids..........................$ 9.34....$ 9.66
> Nursing Aids/Orderlies....................$10.67....$11.04
> Dental Assistants.........................$14.53....$14.8 3
> Pharmacy Aides............................$ 9.35....$10.07
> Veterinary Assistants/Animal Caretakers...$ 9.60....$10.13
>
>
>
> > I understand that physicians are having problems maintaining their
> > incomes, but those incomes are still relatively high. After all,
> > $170,000 isn't chicken feed and $320,000 puts one in the upper
> > stratosphere of income levels in the US.
>
>
>
> ......Occupational Title............Employed...Mean Annual
>
> Surgeons.............................51,900......$ 184,150
> Obstetricians and Gynecologists......22,520......$178,040
> Orthodontists.........................5,200......$ 176,900
> Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons.......5,320......$164,760
> Internists, General..................48,700......$160,860
> Prosthodontists.........................480......$ 158,940
> Psychiatrists........................24,730......$ 149,990
> Family and General Practitioners....109,400......$149,850
> Physicians and Surgeons, All Other..208,960......$142,220
> Pediatricians, General...............28,930......$141,440
> Dentists, General....................86,110......$140,950
> Podiatrists...........................9,020......$ 118,500
> Dentists, All Other Specialists.......4,560......$108,340
>
> ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

Thanks for correcting my assumptions. According to Wikipedia, about
5.8 percent of the population have family incomes greater than $150,000.
15.7 percent of the population has incomes greater than $100,00. (From
census data as of 2005.) But remember that most families involve more
than one wage earner these days. Wikipedia also gives percentages for
personal income and the percentage over $100,000 is 5.63 percent. (2006
census). I think that confirms my assertion that doctors do reasonably
well in comparison the the population as a whole.

I think they also do pretty well in comparison to individuals with
comparable education, but I haven't amassed any data to prove that, so I
could be wrong. I can assure you they do considerably better than the
overwhelming bulk of Ph.D. mathematicians. Am I showing some resentment
there? Perhaps, but I got over that many years ago. I am happy to have
a happy well paid physician treat me. Occasionally it comes to the fore
when I hear some physician justifying his income on the basis of all his
training. Physicians should be well paid for a whole bunch of reasons,
but their lengthy training is not one of them.

The table you present also hides another fact. Some specialties you
don't list earn specially high incomes, e.g., dermatology and plastic
surgery. This is a problem, not because those specialists are
undeserving of their wealth, but because it skews the choices young
doctors, particularly the most talented, make about what specialties to
choose. If we really had a free market in medicine, that would
presumably take care of itself, but the evidence that I've seen shows
the opposite. An oversupply of doctors doesn't lower fees because of
competition, it appears, if anything, to raise them. Yet another
example of why medicine can't be treated as a free market.

Leonard Evens wrote:
> Yet another
> example of why medicine can't be treated as a free market.

Another illustration:

"WASHINGTON — New research shows huge, unexplained variations in the
amount, intensity and cost of care provided to Medicare patients with
chronic illnesses at the nation’s top academic medical centers, raising
the possibility that the government could save large amounts of money.
.... “How can the best medical care in the world cost twice as much as
the best medical care in the world?” asked Peter R. Orszag, director of
the Congressional Budget Office, referring to the top-ranked hospitals."



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