Hot flashes

Today is Lupron+3 weeks and the hot flashes have kicked in. It's
about 70 degrees and I'm sweating.

These don't bother me that much except that feeling hot will probably
slow me down, keep me from exercising as much (and going Lupron-soft).

How are you dealing with the sweats and feeling hot?

-kh Just managed a 60% erection, pulled it to, er, completion. W/o
Vitamin-V.

Hi, kh.
At FOUR weeks into ADT I was still managing a woodie and managing a decent
output, maybe not the real squirty bit, but a dribble anyway.
Wait till you get to four months - Mr Turtlehead will just hang there numb
nomatter what you do.
Rub him, scold him, gently massage him, let him see some Porn... nuthin
works for me now.
I even tried a hooker when I was over in Holland. Nuthin. I shoulda got
drunk instead.
So?
I just won't bother till I get off the ADT (If Ever)
Hot Flushes? - Ask Steve Jordan about Depo Provera. It'll cost you though.
(The drug I mean)
Hughie.


"kh" <tchtic@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1181048974.333092.64070@k79g2000hse.googlegro ups.com...
> Today is Lupron+3 weeks and the hot flashes have kicked in. It's
> about 70 degrees and I'm sweating.
>
> These don't bother me that much except that feeling hot will probably
> slow me down, keep me from exercising as much (and going Lupron-soft).
>
> How are you dealing with the sweats and feeling hot?
>
> -kh Just managed a 60% erection, pulled it to, er, completion. W/o
> Vitamin-V.
>

"kh" <tchtic@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1181048974.333092.64070@k79g2000hse.googlegro ups.com...
> Today is Lupron+3 weeks and the hot flashes have kicked in. It's
> about 70 degrees and I'm sweating.
>
> These don't bother me that much except that feeling hot will probably
> slow me down, keep me from exercising as much (and going Lupron-soft).
>
> How are you dealing with the sweats and feeling hot?
>
> -kh Just managed a 60% erection, pulled it to, er, completion. W/o
> Vitamin-V.

I found that exercising is a great way to get past the hot flash. It's also
a good way to get past Lupron-induced fatigue. But, of course the hot
flashes and fatigue causes one to prefer not to exercise. It's almost a
logical equation one has to create in their mind. Almost like someone high
on drugs knowing inherently that getting out of bed is a bad idea at this
point, no matter how much he wants to fly.

How long? I can't remember, but it seems that I was over most of it in less
than a year -- but, maybe because I walked (walk) 3-5 miles a day, 3-5 days
a week.



--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04, <0.05
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

kh wrote:

> Today is Lupron+3 weeks and the hot flashes have kicked in. It's
> about 70 degrees and I'm sweating.
>
> These don't bother me that much except that feeling hot will probably
> slow me down, keep me from exercising as much (and going Lupron-soft).
>
> How are you dealing with the sweats and feeling hot?
>
> -kh Just managed a 60% erection, pulled it to, er, completion. W/o
> Vitamin-V.
>


My wife has hot flashes. She always says that she wishes I could feel
the way she does.

If I'm unlucky, I just might.

j.

kh wrote:
> Today is Lupron+3 weeks and the hot flashes have kicked in. It's
> about 70 degrees and I'm sweating.
>
> These don't bother me that much except that feeling hot will probably
> slow me down, keep me from exercising as much (and going Lupron-soft).
>
> How are you dealing with the sweats and feeling hot?

Dealing with them varies widely, as do their severity, frequency,
duration, and longevity. Option men take include drugs, exercise, mental
adaptation, whining (don't misunderstand; that's one of my favorite
coping mechanisms for anything that really bothers me), and ceasing ADT
altogether even with advanced, symptomatic mets.

My primary objection to the bare minimum warm flashes (not even sweaty,
but enough to wake me up) I experienced with my one ADT shot was the
lost sleep. What the hell good is a med that adds a little time to our
lives if it takes it right back by demanding more sack time?

One way I might "deal with" hot flashes if and when I need ADT is to
constantly remind myself how lucky I am that mine are pikers compared to
the men who have to change their completely drenched bedding several
times each night and their drenched clothes several times each day.
Those -- including at least one renowned oncologist with advanced mets
-- are the guys who Just Say No to ADT. The rest of us amateurs probably
just learn to tolerate whatever flushes the meds can't prevent.

Tip: these newer wicking fabrics are marvelous at keeping us feeling dry
even while sweating. I can't believe I actually wore wringing wet cotton
my first year or two in the gym. Now even though I'm exercising much
harder and longer (major elliptical cross-trainer regimen, up to and
including theoretical 100% pulse rate), my wicking boxer briefs, gym
shorts, and tee shirt always look and feel dry. Similar wicking fabrics
are available in casual trousers and sport shirts and socks, so for
anything less than a coat and tie atmosphere I suspect you can dress
much more comfortably than you do now.

I also add a through-the-wall air conditioner to our bedroom so I can
keep it cold year-round without freezing out the whole house, and I have
a fan at arm's length so I can crank up a stiff breeze when desired.

At least there's *something* stiff in our bedroom.

I.P.

On June 5, kh wrote. about hot flushes:

(snip another instance of a medic failing to brief a patient on
treatment side effects)

> How are you dealing with the sweats and feeling hot?

Here's my essay on the subject:

"There are txs for hot flushes, and they seem not to be well-known among
some inattentive medics. I'll not speculate on the reason. You may
admire my restraint.

They are:

1. Megace (megestrol acetate): some concern has been expressed by one
medic that it might encourage PCa development where the tumor has
mutated. Unfortunately, there appears to be no way to be certain whether
this has occurred. Nonetheless, I do know that it is used successfully
to relieve hot flushes.

2. Paxil (paroxetine hydrochloride), an antidepressant. A side effect is
to relieve hot flushes.

3. Effexor (venlafaxine hydrochloride), an antidepressant. Same story.

4. Depo Provera (medroxyprogesterone, a synthetic form of the female
hormone progesterone), the "label" use of which is as a female
contraceptive. In the 400 mg (contraceptive) dosage, a study*
(Langstroer et al.J Urol. 2005 Aug;174(2):642-5, Pub Med ID 16006929)
has demonstrated excellent results in relief of hot flushes among men on
ADT (androgen deprivation therapy).

I selected this tx to relieve my hot flushes (6 per night + days) from
Trelstar (triptorelin pamoate), which with Lupron and Zoladex is one of
the LHRH agonists used to castrate PCa patients chemically thereby
depriving PCa cells of an essential nutrient, testosterone (T). I also
had hot flushes from the other two meds.

In my case, I chose Depo Sub-Q Provera 208 mg, the "label" use of which
is palliative tx of endometriosis. In August 2005, I received 104 mg in
each anterior thigh. I have not experienced even one hot flush since
then. How long this will continue is anyone's guess.

However: one must be aware that progesterone is metabolized into
testosterone, and should take care that one's PSA is sufficiently low
that a rise in T will not be harmful. In my case, my PSA rose from 0.01
ng/ml to 0.02, then subsided to 0.01, which I feel is more than
satisfactory.

Caveat: what works for me may not work for anyone else in the universe!

In the USA, such use of these drugs is "off-label" which is to say not
approved by the US Federal Drug Administration. The practical effect of
this is that the use of the drugs for relief of hot flushes will not be
paid for by insurance carriers.

I
(1) am not sure of the dosages except for Depo Sub-Q Provera, and
(2) do not know the out-of-pocket costs of the off-label use, again with
the exception of Depo Sub-Q Provera (US$200 for two pre-loaded syringes
+ $25 for the injection at my medic's office).

I consider the cost to have been well worth the result.

Had a bit of fun with my medic and his staff after the injections.
Sighed and observed that from now on I would be unable to ovulate.....

* 'Parenteral medroxyprogesterone for the management of luteinizing
hormone releasing hormone induced hot flashes in men with advanced
prostate cancer.'"

Hot flushes and other SEs of ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) are
well-covered on the website of the Prostate Cancer Research Institute
at: http://www.prostate-cancer.org/educa...Strum_ADS.html

I have heard of other txs, but have not looked into them.

Regards,

Steve J

"I believe it is a mistake for many urologists to be involved in the
endocrine therapy of prostate cancer. Let me state why. Urologists are
surgeons and many times surgeons rush to a treatment without really
understanding what they are doing."
--Stephen B. Strum, MD

On the light side: when I was going through the peak of the hot flashes
(flushes for those of you who wish to be correct) , I worked with a lady
with a great sense of humor,who was experiencing menopause at the same
time.At corp. meetings, she would call, "Hey FLASH, sit next to me, by the
open window." The hot flashes aren't so bad, they go away. Watch for the
other side effects.

Tom

"kh" <tchtic@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1181048974.333092.64070@k79g2000hse.googlegro ups.com...
> Today is Lupron+3 weeks and the hot flashes have kicked in. It's
> about 70 degrees and I'm sweating.
>
> These don't bother me that much except that feeling hot will probably
> slow me down, keep me from exercising as much (and going Lupron-soft).
>
> How are you dealing with the sweats and feeling hot?
>
> -kh Just managed a 60% erection, pulled it to, er, completion. W/o
> Vitamin-V.
>

On Jun 5, 2:30 pm, Steve Jordan <mycrofts...@cox.net> wrote:
> On June 5, kh wrote. about hot flushes:
>
> (snip another instance of a medic failing to brief a patient on
> treatment side effects)
>
> snip
>
> 1. Megace (megestrol acetate): some concern has been expressed by one
> medic that it might encourage PCa development where the tumor has
> mutated. Unfortunately, there appears to be no way to be certain whether
> this has occurred. Nonetheless, I do know that it is used successfully
> to relieve hot flushes.
>
> snip

Just to add to Steve's comment on megestrol acetate (as that's what I
take). Everyone is different on about any medication, but I skip days
of Megace when everything is under control, then re-start when I get
the sweats.Actually, I have found the first sign (with me) is an
uncomfortable sticky feeling that preceeds the hot flashes (take a
pill) and keep it under control pretty good while minimizing another
fricking medication to take.

Rich

On Jun 5, 9:57 am, "Hugh Kearnley" <hughkearn...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> Hi, kh.
> At FOUR weeks into ADT I was still managing a woodie and managing a decent
> output, maybe not the real squirty bit, but a dribble anyway.
> Wait till you get to four months - Mr Turtlehead will just hang there numb
> nomatter what you do.
> Rub him, scold him, gently massage him, let him see some Porn... nuthin
> works for me now.
> I even tried a hooker when I was over in Holland.

Some of the guys say that, even limp, with proper stimulation, you can
have a good time.

That's good but not necessarily great.

I don't have the bad hot flashes yet. It's more like feeling warm and
some sweats break out.

The joint pain has come back. It's mild too. So far, everything has
been mild, more a nuisance than a problem. I'm not sure I want to try
Depo or any drugs.

I'm more fit now than I was the first time I was on Lupron. I've got
some weight off and I managed to get away from a bad work
situation.

-kh getting away from job-lunatics and workplace-nasties is a big
help.

Here's information about gabapentin, a new entrant in the anti-flash
arsenal, from the Mayo Clinic:

Nonhormonal drug reduces hot flashes in men treated for prostate
cancer

CHICAGO -- North Central Cancer Treatment Group (http://ncctg/)
researchers based at Mayo Clinic (http://www.mayo.edu/) in Rochester,
Minn., have discovered that low doses of a drug used to prevent
epileptic seizures and to treat nerve pain caused by shingles
substantially reduces hot flashes in patients who are undergoing anti-
hormonal treatment, or androgen-deprivation therapy, for prostate
cancer.

In presenting results of a 223-patient, placebo-controlled Phase III
clinical trial at the 2007 annual meeting of the American Society of
Clinical Oncology http://www.asco.org/portal/site/ASCO), Mayo Clinic
investigators report that the drug gabapentin reduced the frequency
and the intensity of hot flashes by up to 46 percent in men receiving
androgen deprivation therapy. The men who received gabapentin reported
fewer side effects than those receiving a placebo tablet, the
researchers say.

Many men undergoing androgen deprivation therapy suffer debilitating
hot flashes, but until now the only therapeutic agents proven to
provide relief are androgen-originating hormones, some of which can
actually fuel their cancer. So any symptom relief these men get comes
with worry about new cancer growth.

"To my knowledge, this is the first nonhormonal treatment of hot
flashes in men, where results from a placebo-controlled trial are
positive enough to support that a nonhormonal medication can be used
to help some of our patients," says the study's lead investigator,
Mayo Clinic oncologist Charles Loprinzi, M.D (http://
mayoresearch.mayo.edu/mayo/research/staff/loprinzi_cl.cfm).

Hi Ken,
I looked for this drug in the British Pharmacoepia but couldn't find a
listing.
Is there another name for it?
Thanks
Shug.

"Ken" <ronburtonz@mac.com> wrote in message
news:1181142588.417726.67340@m36g2000hse.googlegro ups.com...
> Here's information about gabapentin, a new entrant in the anti-flash
> arsenal, from the Mayo Clinic:
>
> Nonhormonal drug reduces hot flashes in men treated for prostate
> cancer
>
> CHICAGO -- North Central Cancer Treatment Group (http://ncctg/)
> researchers based at Mayo Clinic (http://www.mayo.edu/) in Rochester,
> Minn., have discovered that low doses of a drug used to prevent
> epileptic seizures and to treat nerve pain caused by shingles
> substantially reduces hot flashes in patients who are undergoing anti-
> hormonal treatment, or androgen-deprivation therapy, for prostate
> cancer.
>
> In presenting results of a 223-patient, placebo-controlled Phase III
> clinical trial at the 2007 annual meeting of the American Society of
> Clinical Oncology http://www.asco.org/portal/site/ASCO), Mayo Clinic
> investigators report that the drug gabapentin reduced the frequency
> and the intensity of hot flashes by up to 46 percent in men receiving
> androgen deprivation therapy. The men who received gabapentin reported
> fewer side effects than those receiving a placebo tablet, the
> researchers say.
>
> Many men undergoing androgen deprivation therapy suffer debilitating
> hot flashes, but until now the only therapeutic agents proven to
> provide relief are androgen-originating hormones, some of which can
> actually fuel their cancer. So any symptom relief these men get comes
> with worry about new cancer growth.
>
> "To my knowledge, this is the first nonhormonal treatment of hot
> flashes in men, where results from a placebo-controlled trial are
> positive enough to support that a nonhormonal medication can be used
> to help some of our patients," says the study's lead investigator,
> Mayo Clinic oncologist Charles Loprinzi, M.D (http://
> mayoresearch.mayo.edu/mayo/research/staff/loprinzi_cl.cfm).
>

Hi Shug - "Gabapentin" appears to be the only listing. You can read
more about it on the NIH site:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...r/a694007.html



On Jun 6, 11:24 am, "Hugh Kearnley" <hughkearn...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> Hi Ken,
> I looked for this drug in the British Pharmacoepia but couldn't find a
> listing. > Is there another name for it?
> Thanks
> Shug.

>> I even tried a hooker when I was over in Holland.
>

Hey - I was only kiddin about the Hooker!

> Some of the guys say that, even limp, with proper stimulation, you can
> have a good time.

My son suggested a Vibrator...? Just to get it up, I dunno - I had been
thinking about getting a loan of a vaccuum device from my Uro (You can do
that in UK - well, Scotland anyway...) But the walls are so thin here in
the new house, all the neighbours would be wondering what the f*** the
buzzzing noises were... whats that pervert up to now?

> I don't have the bad hot flashes yet. It's more like feeling warm and
> some sweats break out.

I really hope, Matey, you never get the really rotten bed-soakers. If you
have a partner - it could be worse if she starts getting the hump over cold
wet bedclothes. I often have pillows in the tumble dryer at 2 AM!

> The joint pain has come back. It's mild too. So far, everything has
> been mild, more a nuisance than a problem. >

I didn't know about your joint pains - from mets?
Glad your symptoms are mild.
I moaned like crazy for months about everything just because it disrupted my
routines. Then I got a slap in the arse when I realised just how much
suffering a lot of guys have to put up with.
Because of co-morbidities, I treated the Cancer at the start as just another
bugbear.
I'm wiser now. I try to treat it seriously, but often - you just havta
laugh.

> I'm more fit now than I was the first time I was on Lupron. I've got
> some weight off and I managed to get away from a bad work
> situation.

My congratulations Kid, talking about fitness and weight-loss, my youngest
son who lives with me now, he's taller, better built now and an absolute
Bully. We managed to get the Treadmill unpacked and into the living room. he
forced me onto it for several nights, then one night insisted I do a mile.
It ended up my legs collapsed, he and I and the treadmill went arse over tit
on the floor, cat screeching blue murder and ran up the curtains. We just
lay there guffawing. Yes, humour helps a lot. But so does someone who cares
for you.
I don't know about your personal situation - I suppose you DO sound like a
guy with lots of friends? Get them all involved. My Minister's oldest Son
and my own youngest kid now want me to go on cycle rides with them - they
had it all planned out - one leading, one in back, me in the middle. I'm
lucky to have people who care. Way back at Dx, I thought I had no-one.
Amazing how fast people rally round.

One thing I'm DREADING - I have a long standing on/off girlfriend from when
I was 16. She's pretty sophisticated. (She owned a pub and seduced me as
cellar-boy when I was 16 (Lucky Lad!) and we've been lovers on and off since
then (1967!) She's 64 now, but still a very good looking girl, but awfully
horny for her age. Last time - 2003? - She got into the shower with me and
lottsa fun. She's coming up this weekend and I'm DREADING it. I just KNOW
it's gonna be a disaster. She'll be expecting something I won't be able to
deliver - and before you start about "Long Hairy Tongues" again - I don't
mind THAT as a precursor or foreplay, but when the girl takes a while to
climax - it gets wearying as the flavour gets stronger...OK - Don't mind
Sushi occassionally, but as a main course of the month - forget it. I'd
sooner have an Ice Cream Soda (Less sweaty) Ever noticed the older a Lass
gets, the fishier it tastes? Or is that just lack of hygeine? My tongue ends
up numb anyway! (And gagging on loose - shall we say - "fibres"?)

> -kh getting away from job-lunatics and workplace-nasties is a big
> help.

I could not agree more. With this disease, you can't afford the luxury of
uncomfortable compromise.
Just tell 'em to F**k Off.
The rest of YOUR life is YOURS - not theirs to mess about with.

Hey - ever realised our initials are the same? But reversed?

Oh dear, this preoccupation with sex! (I'd rather have an erection,
Thankyou! Forget the Green Stamps!)

Nomatter my patter (Poetic or not?) I wish you all the very best kh - and
all the other guys too, but YOU have consistently raised my mood and made me
laugh when feeling down or low.
As I said in a previous post - keep doing it.
THANKYOU.
Luvya Bro!
HUGHIE.

On D-Day, Hugh Kearnley replied to Ken:

> I looked for this drug in the British Pharmacoepia but couldn't find a
> listing.
> Is there another name for it?

The commercial name is Neurontin. See
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/gabapent.htm

Regards,

Steve J

I dislike a "study" without researchers' names and publication information.
but here's what I received today.
Note that the headline states "cancer" while the story reads "breast
cancer."


Cancer Patients With Hot Flashes Less Likely To Have Disease Recurrence
Wednesday, June 6, 2007 0830 PDT

La Jolla, California -- People with breast cancer who have hot flashes are
less likely to have a recurrence of the disease. According to a University
of California-San Diego study, patients with hot flashes had a 13% chance of
recurrence, compared with a 21% possibility among people without hot
flashes. About 2/3 of woman who have had breast cancer have hot flashes.

On Jun 6, 12:15 pm, "Hugh Kearnley" <hughkearn...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

> I didn't know about your joint pains - from mets?
> Glad your symptoms are mild.

I don't believe so. I "passed" a couple bone scans about 6 months
ago.

According to my primary care doc (in the U.S. we frequently have
either a General Practitioner, Family Doctor, or an Internist assigned
to us. This doc serves as our advocate and as the gatekeeper for more
advanced services.) I have some osteoporosis and some arthritis, both
are very mild. He put me in for a bone density scan. The bone density
scan and the CAT-scans and MRI's verified this.

Lupron can cause joint pain in the small joints, fingers and toes. If
you already have arthritis, it magnifies that.

A couple years ago, I was on Lupron and got stabbing pains in my
toes.

I've got those pains again, but they are mild so far.

The MRI and CAT-scan also showed some problems in my spine. The doc
said I had a "mild compression fracture" in a vertebra. I have
occasional pain there too but I think it's my muscles, not the
bones. Whatever it is, it's probably not mets.

With that back pain, like you, I can't see myself swiveling my hips,
doing the hokee-pokee, hollaring out, "Babe, this ONES for YOU!"

Even on the Lupron, I can think about undulating and yelling but if I
tried it, I'd be yelling, "Ow, ow, OW!"

-kh the frustration, oh the frustration!

Ken wrote:
> Here's information about gabapentin, a new entrant in the anti-flash
> arsenal, from the Mayo Clinic:
In COctober of 2004 Mayo Clinic had an article about a new
anti-depressant, Paroxetine, which they say was effective in reducing
hot flashes in men on hormonal treatments. It might be worthwhile to
check it out, but a neurologist I saw some months ago had never heard of
it nor the study. Let us know if you find anything, if you look.

"Bob C." <BC@Bob.org> wrote in message news:f490010e65@enews5.newsguy.com...
> Ken wrote:
>> Here's information about gabapentin, a new entrant in the anti-flash
>> arsenal, from the Mayo Clinic:
> In COctober of 2004 Mayo Clinic had an article about a new
> anti-depressant, Paroxetine, which they say was effective in reducing hot
> flashes in men on hormonal treatments. It might be worthwhile to check it
> out, but a neurologist I saw some months ago had never heard of it nor the
> study. Let us know if you find anything, if you look.

Paroxetine, I believe, is the generic equivalent of the branded
anti-depressant Paxil. Paxil has been around for years. My wife has been on
it for the past 10 years or so.
--
JerryW

Please respond to group; email address is not valid

2/11/04 PSA 2.6, Suspicious DRE (age 62)
2/23/04 Biopsy: Gleason 3+4=7, T2a, left lobe
5/18/04 RRP, Path: Gleason 4+3=7, T2c, both lobes
Fully continent by 9/04
PSA through 4/2/07: <0.1

Try this link for the study:

http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/hea...FlashesNS-.asp

--charlie

--
6/2006 PSA 5.2
DRE suspicious
7/2006 Biopsy
2 of 10 positive
Gleason 7(3+4)
11/2006 LRP
Clear margins
1/2007 PSA < 0.01
3/2007 PSA < 0.01
so far, so good