an interesting situation

Yesterday hubby had a check up and a PSA test done. I'm waiting for the
results now and will post them as soon as we know. (Yes, I'm crossing my
fingers!)

Anyway, we're sitting in this huge waiting room that serves quite a few
doctors and the big TV hanging from the ceiling is running with all these
mini-info shows on various types of cancer. Being this is a VA facility it's
predominately males in the waiting area. I noticed as we sat down that most
of the men were watching the TV. These little shows were well done and
interesting. We sat through about two and a half shows when we were called
back to see the doctor. When we came out hubby had to process through the
desk there so my attention went back to the big screen. It was on prostate
cancer.

I would have liked to have sat back down and watched it but hubby had to go
to the lab, etc, and we were both looking forward to a lousy cup of coffee.
But what shocked me was not one single person was watching the show on
prostate cancer. Not one!!! Every person in there before except for the two
men who were cat napping were glued to the TV during the skin cancer show.
What the heck happened? Why weren't they watching?

When are men going to face up to the fact that they chance having prostate
cancer and the more they know the better off they will be? I wanted to
scream, "watch the TV!" But I didn't. I did walk away rather pissed at the
men sitting there. I doubt there was anyone under the age of 45 in that
room, when I came out there was one wife sitting with her husband (don't
know where the other two were), probably 60% of the men were black, and no
one was watching! Damn, it makes me mad.
:-(
Bev

"Beverley" <beverly.brown28@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:__Vfh.8101$495.3716@trnddc06...
> Yesterday hubby had a check up and a PSA test done. I'm waiting for the
> results now and will post them as soon as we know. (Yes, I'm crossing my
> fingers!)
>
> Anyway, we're sitting in this huge waiting room that serves quite a few
> doctors and the big TV hanging from the ceiling is running with all these
> mini-info shows on various types of cancer. Being this is a VA facility
> it's
> predominately males in the waiting area. I noticed as we sat down that
> most
> of the men were watching the TV. These little shows were well done and
> interesting. We sat through about two and a half shows when we were called
> back to see the doctor. When we came out hubby had to process through the
> desk there so my attention went back to the big screen. It was on prostate
> cancer.
>
> I would have liked to have sat back down and watched it but hubby had to
> go
> to the lab, etc, and we were both looking forward to a lousy cup of
> coffee.
> But what shocked me was not one single person was watching the show on
> prostate cancer. Not one!!! Every person in there before except for the
> two
> men who were cat napping were glued to the TV during the skin cancer show.
> What the heck happened? Why weren't they watching?
>
> When are men going to face up to the fact that they chance having prostate
> cancer and the more they know the better off they will be? I wanted to
> scream, "watch the TV!" But I didn't. I did walk away rather pissed at the
> men sitting there. I doubt there was anyone under the age of 45 in that
> room, when I came out there was one wife sitting with her husband (don't
> know where the other two were), probably 60% of the men were black, and no
> one was watching! Damn, it makes me mad.

No use telling us, Beverley, we weren't there.

Mary

From: beverly.brown28@verizon.net (Beverley)

When we came out hubby had to process through the desk there so my
attention went back to the big screen. It was on prostate cancer. But
what shocked me was not one single person was watching the show on
prostate cancer. Not one!!!

When are men going to face up to the fact that they chance having
prostate cancer and the more they know the better off they will be? I
wanted to scream, "watch the TV!" But I didn't.

======
hi bev - you are not alone on this one. i've seen it too.

even when i talk to men about the prostate and it's problems, i get
that deer in the headlight look.

guess that's the difference between men and women - i don't know.

all i do know is that it seems that AFTER a man gets prostate cancer, he
is VERY much aware of this and wish he knew MORE before he developed
pca.

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc

Beverley wrote:

> I would have liked to have sat back down and watched it but hubby had to go
> to the lab, etc, and we were both looking forward to a lousy cup of coffee.
> But what shocked me was not one single person was watching the show on
> prostate cancer. Not one!!! Every person in there before except for the two
> men who were cat napping were glued to the TV during the skin cancer show.
> What the heck happened? Why weren't they watching?
>
> When are men going to face up to the fact that they chance having prostate
> cancer and the more they know the better off they will be? I wanted to
> scream, "watch the TV!" But I didn't.
>
I promoted and presented an open, friendly, even humorous talk on PC to
our homeowners' association of 300 families, mostly middle age and
seniors. Three people -- two wives and a man -- showed.

I.P.

Hi Bev,

The following is a link to an Us Too effort to raise Pca awareness.
http://www.prostatecancerrunwalknrol...6qtfa903.app7a

I'm going to do my best to get participation within our Co. (we have
approx. 100 male employees in the "Mature Age Group", that should be
somewhat interested in pitching in. I know of at least of 6 that I speak to
on a regular basis that have had a personal experience with Pca.

I believe that most men (not those who participate in this forum) would
choose to sit tight and be silent and suffer, rather than openly discuss
issues that they deem to be a private or personal issue. Can you imagine
this scenario? Two Ironworkers, working 30 floors above the ground and one
says to the other, "Gee, I couldn't get it up last night, or "I don't know
what happened, but I just wet my pants". It's a macho / stupitity thing.

Tom


"Beverley" <beverly.brown28@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:__Vfh.8101$495.3716@trnddc06...
> Yesterday hubby had a check up and a PSA test done. I'm waiting for the
> results now and will post them as soon as we know. (Yes, I'm crossing my
> fingers!)
>
> Anyway, we're sitting in this huge waiting room that serves quite a few
> doctors and the big TV hanging from the ceiling is running with all these
> mini-info shows on various types of cancer. Being this is a VA facility
> it's
> predominately males in the waiting area. I noticed as we sat down that
> most
> of the men were watching the TV. These little shows were well done and
> interesting. We sat through about two and a half shows when we were called
> back to see the doctor. When we came out hubby had to process through the
> desk there so my attention went back to the big screen. It was on prostate
> cancer.
>
> I would have liked to have sat back down and watched it but hubby had to
> go
> to the lab, etc, and we were both looking forward to a lousy cup of
> coffee.
> But what shocked me was not one single person was watching the show on
> prostate cancer. Not one!!! Every person in there before except for the
> two
> men who were cat napping were glued to the TV during the skin cancer show.
> What the heck happened? Why weren't they watching?
>
> When are men going to face up to the fact that they chance having prostate
> cancer and the more they know the better off they will be? I wanted to
> scream, "watch the TV!" But I didn't. I did walk away rather pissed at the
> men sitting there. I doubt there was anyone under the age of 45 in that
> room, when I came out there was one wife sitting with her husband (don't
> know where the other two were), probably 60% of the men were black, and no
> one was watching! Damn, it makes me mad.
> :-(
> Bev
>
>

Mary, it seems that Beverley was just venting a little and passing along her
thoughts on a very serious subject. Your response to her seemed a little
over the top and maybe even hateful. It's the holidays ... put a smile in
your voice.

Jean


"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:45803fe8$0$757$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.ne t...
>
> "Beverley" <beverly.brown28@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:__Vfh.8101$495.3716@trnddc06...
>> Yesterday hubby had a check up and a PSA test done. I'm waiting for the
>> results now and will post them as soon as we know. (Yes, I'm crossing my
>> fingers!)
>>
>> Anyway, we're sitting in this huge waiting room that serves quite a few
>> doctors and the big TV hanging from the ceiling is running with all these
>> mini-info shows on various types of cancer. Being this is a VA facility
>> it's
>> predominately males in the waiting area. I noticed as we sat down that
>> most
>> of the men were watching the TV. These little shows were well done and
>> interesting. We sat through about two and a half shows when we were
>> called
>> back to see the doctor. When we came out hubby had to process through the
>> desk there so my attention went back to the big screen. It was on
>> prostate
>> cancer.
>>
>> I would have liked to have sat back down and watched it but hubby had to
>> go
>> to the lab, etc, and we were both looking forward to a lousy cup of
>> coffee.
>> But what shocked me was not one single person was watching the show on
>> prostate cancer. Not one!!! Every person in there before except for the
>> two
>> men who were cat napping were glued to the TV during the skin cancer
>> show.
>> What the heck happened? Why weren't they watching?
>>
>> When are men going to face up to the fact that they chance having
>> prostate
>> cancer and the more they know the better off they will be? I wanted to
>> scream, "watch the TV!" But I didn't. I did walk away rather pissed at
>> the
>> men sitting there. I doubt there was anyone under the age of 45 in that
>> room, when I came out there was one wife sitting with her husband (don't
>> know where the other two were), probably 60% of the men were black, and
>> no
>> one was watching! Damn, it makes me mad.
>
> No use telling us, Beverley, we weren't there.
>
> Mary
>
>

"Jean" <jeand@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Ns1gh.10666$GB1.2399@tornado.texas.rr.com...

> Mary, it seems that Beverley was just venting a little and passing along
> her thoughts on a very serious subject. Your response to her seemed a
> little over the top and maybe even hateful.

Imagine that!

"Jean" <jeand@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Ns1gh.10666$GB1.2399@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Mary, it seems that Beverley was just venting a little and passing along
> her thoughts on a very serious subject. Your response to her seemed a
> little over the top and maybe even hateful.

<puzzled>

That's your perception, it wasn't intended like that! It was more a
statement of shared frustrations. I wonder why you saw hate in it ...

I'm sorry you felt affronted, I hope Beverley didn't, I'm sure she knows
that if any of us had been there we'd have been watching the film.

> It's the holidays ... put a smile in your voice.

What holidays? It's not a holiday here ... <puzzled again>

Mary

"Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:OQ1gh.4108$SJ3.3042@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>
> "Jean" <jeand@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:Ns1gh.10666$GB1.2399@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
>> Mary, it seems that Beverley was just venting a little and passing along
>> her thoughts on a very serious subject. Your response to her seemed a
>> little over the top and maybe even hateful.
>
> Imagine that!

That's rich from someone who suggested that Bev's sister was unfaithful!
>
>

"c palmer" <PALMER_ENT@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:534-45804D2A-33@storefull-3217.bay.webtv.net...
> From: beverly.brown28@verizon.net (Beverley)
>
> When we came out hubby had to process through the desk there so my
> attention went back to the big screen. It was on prostate cancer. But
> what shocked me was not one single person was watching the show on
> prostate cancer. Not one!!!
>
> When are men going to face up to the fact that they chance having
> prostate cancer and the more they know the better off they will be? I
> wanted to scream, "watch the TV!" But I didn't.
>
> ======
> hi bev - you are not alone on this one. i've seen it too.
>
> even when i talk to men about the prostate and it's problems, i get
> that deer in the headlight look.
>
> guess that's the difference between men and women - i don't know.
>
> all i do know is that it seems that AFTER a man gets prostate cancer, he
> is VERY much aware of this and wish he knew MORE before he developed
> pca.

Indeed. But if Bev HAD screamed at the non-audience she'd have been
considered a bossy harriden :-(

On the other hand, we can't know about everything in life before it happens.
And some men - and women - might not WANT to know, it's their right. I
believe it's known as 'denial'

<sigh>

It's the same the whole world over ...

Mary

Tom Cular wrote:

> I believe that most men (not those who participate in this forum) would
> choose to sit tight and be silent and suffer, rather than openly discuss
> issues that they deem to be a private or personal issue.

Well, what would you have them do?

pre-diagnosis, I had an annual physical with a full blood screen,
cholesterol, cell counts, obscure chemicals, sugar, and PSA. The doc
also gave me the finger, did that every year since I was 40. He took
my BP, listened to my breathing and every 3 or 4 years did an EKG.

Of course, I never gave prostate cancer a thought. Why should I? Why
should anyone?

There's a thought in this newsgroup that "We need to build awareness."
and "talk about it."

Why?

If you don't have it, don't worry about it. It should not rise above
the 5 minutes-a-year check-up, where your doc says, "PSA's OK, but
let's take a feel."

It's the same as him saying, "BP and cholesterol's OK, but I want you
to go for a cardiac stress test."

You do it, and, it's done.

It is different after diagnosis. Then there's a LOT to think about.
Until then, other than the annual physical, the only other time that I
was even aware that I had a prostate was 30 years ago, a woman said
that she wanted to give me a special treat.

"First, we'll take a shower together, get soapy clean everywhere, and I
mean everywhere."

I can still feel those soapy slippery breasts rubbing my back while she
reached around and between to suds up.

We got dried off and snuck into her bedroom, fortunately her roomate
had her door shut.

She said, "lie back, I'll get this K-Y all over my finger and suck on
you while I slide my finger right in ...."

Ho!

Whoa!

What! What! What are you doing??!!!!

"-mmmffff- You just enjoy yourself. -mmmffff- Come in my mouth when
you feel like it."

That gal could be demanding but sometimes she felt like playing the
submissive, total woman.

-kh 30 years ago???

It's very simple. Many/most men don't want to be seen intently watching
because they will assume, perhaps correctly, that the others are
looking at them thinking, "Poor guy; he probably can't get it up." PCa
= ED = loss of manhood. No man wants to be perceived that way.
Sometimes when I tell people I had my prostate removed I can almost
hear the wheels turning in their heads.

Bill Denton
RP 2/12/02
PSA 1.10
Memphis

"Bill" <zerospam@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1166109954.229409.279650@80g2000cwy.googlegro ups.com...
> It's very simple. Many/most men don't want to be seen intently watching
> because they will assume, perhaps correctly, that the others are
> looking at them thinking, "Poor guy; he probably can't get it up." PCa
> = ED = loss of manhood. No man wants to be perceived that way.

What makes you think they're assuming that? Prostate cancer can = death =
loss of everything.

> Sometimes when I tell people I had my prostate removed I can almost
> hear the wheels turning in their heads.

All the more reason why you should continue :-)

Mary

"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:45812427$0$760$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.ne t...
>
>> It's the holidays ... put a smile in your voice.
>
> What holidays? It's not a holiday here ... <puzzled again>
>
Mary, the last time I checked, the UK also celebrates Christmas and
Hannukah. Take your pick. It isn't just ONE day.

Even up in Yorkshire they celebrate the above holidays (G).

Merry Christmas.......Heather

kh wrote:
>
> There's a thought in this newsgroup that "We need to build awareness."
> and "talk about it."
>
> Why?
>
> If you don't have it, don't worry about it. It should not rise above
> the 5 minutes-a-year check-up, where your doc says, "PSA's OK, but
> let's take a feel."
>
> It's the same as him saying, "BP and cholesterol's OK, but I want you
> to go for a cardiac stress test."
>
> You do it, and, it's done.
>
> It is different after diagnosis. Then there's a LOT to think about.
> Until then, other than the annual physical, the only other time that I
> was even aware that I had a prostate was 30 years ago, a woman said
> that she wanted to give me a special treat.
>
> "First, we'll take a shower together, get soapy clean everywhere, and I
> mean everywhere."
>
> I can still feel those soapy slippery breasts rubbing my back while she
> reached around and between to suds up.
>
> We got dried off and snuck into her bedroom, fortunately her roomate
> had her door shut.
>
> She said, "lie back, I'll get this K-Y all over my finger and suck on
> you while I slide my finger right in ...."
>
> Ho!
>
> Whoa!
>
> What! What! What are you doing??!!!!
>
> "-mmmffff- You just enjoy yourself. -mmmffff- Come in my mouth when
> you feel like it."
>
> That gal could be demanding but sometimes she felt like playing the
> submissive, total woman.
>
> -kh 30 years ago???

I love a story with a happy ending.....almost makes me miss my
prostate.....

Not really - I didn't want it any more...it was full of cancer, and I
can live without that.

"Heather" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:els5cj$oc$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:45812427$0$760$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.ne t...
>>
>>> It's the holidays ... put a smile in your voice.
>>
>> What holidays? It's not a holiday here ... <puzzled again>
>>
> Mary, the last time I checked, the UK also celebrates Christmas and
> Hannukah. Take your pick. It isn't just ONE day.

Ah - well, we're not Jewish and it's still Advent - the time of preparation
for Christmas, for us.

Christmas will begin for us when we get back from the midnight Christmas Eve
service, the house will be transformed and it will be wonderful! Until then
it's all work, not a holiday at all :-)

And Christmas will last through the octave - eight days. Then it's back to
work ...
>
> Even up in Yorkshire they celebrate the above holidays (G).

Yes, but we don't all start after bonfire night :-)

Mary

You guys are funny!
Mary, I wasn't offended by your remark or Steve's other comment.
Then Heather jumps in. ROTFL
Bev


"Beverley" <beverly.brown28@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:__Vfh.8101$495.3716@trnddc06...
> Yesterday hubby had a check up and a PSA test done. I'm waiting for the
> results now and will post them as soon as we know. (Yes, I'm crossing my
> fingers!)
>
> Anyway, we're sitting in this huge waiting room that serves quite a few
> doctors and the big TV hanging from the ceiling is running with all these
> mini-info shows on various types of cancer. Being this is a VA facility
it's
> predominately males in the waiting area. I noticed as we sat down that
most
> of the men were watching the TV. These little shows were well done and
> interesting. We sat through about two and a half shows when we were called
> back to see the doctor. When we came out hubby had to process through the
> desk there so my attention went back to the big screen. It was on prostate
> cancer.
>
> I would have liked to have sat back down and watched it but hubby had to
go
> to the lab, etc, and we were both looking forward to a lousy cup of
coffee.
> But what shocked me was not one single person was watching the show on
> prostate cancer. Not one!!! Every person in there before except for the
two
> men who were cat napping were glued to the TV during the skin cancer show.
> What the heck happened? Why weren't they watching?
>
> When are men going to face up to the fact that they chance having prostate
> cancer and the more they know the better off they will be? I wanted to
> scream, "watch the TV!" But I didn't. I did walk away rather pissed at the
> men sitting there. I doubt there was anyone under the age of 45 in that
> room, when I came out there was one wife sitting with her husband (don't
> know where the other two were), probably 60% of the men were black, and no
> one was watching! Damn, it makes me mad.
> :-(
> Bev
>
>

Well, 40 years ago the reason people wore hard hats was because of the iron
workers. (For those unaware of the construction industry back then, hard
hats kept the pee from running down the back of your neck. Okay that's an
inside joke.) Those iron workers were crazy, no safety harnesses, no
nothing, no unions, but the pay was very good for those insane enough. They
were some of the toughest men around, foul-mouthed, strong, well-muscled,
Catholic boys (I think it required a great deal of faith to do what they
did) with names like Malone and Giovanni. (OMG were they gorgeous specimens
of testosterone!) To them safety harnesses were for sissies as were the
safety nets that began to go up. Nope, they would never admit to a problem
then or probably even now.
Bev

"Tom Cular" <thomcu@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:8I0gh.1608$e26.899@trndny04...
> Hi Bev,
>
> The following is a link to an Us Too effort to raise Pca awareness.
>
http://www.prostatecancerrunwalknrol...6qtfa903.app7a
>
> I'm going to do my best to get participation within our Co. (we have
> approx. 100 male employees in the "Mature Age Group", that should be
> somewhat interested in pitching in. I know of at least of 6 that I speak
to
> on a regular basis that have had a personal experience with Pca.
>
> I believe that most men (not those who participate in this forum) would
> choose to sit tight and be silent and suffer, rather than openly discuss
> issues that they deem to be a private or personal issue. Can you imagine
> this scenario? Two Ironworkers, working 30 floors above the ground and one
> says to the other, "Gee, I couldn't get it up last night, or "I don't know
> what happened, but I just wet my pants". It's a macho / stupitity thing.
>
> Tom
>
>
> "Beverley" <beverly.brown28@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:__Vfh.8101$495.3716@trnddc06...
> > Yesterday hubby had a check up and a PSA test done. I'm waiting for the
> > results now and will post them as soon as we know. (Yes, I'm crossing my
> > fingers!)
> >
> > Anyway, we're sitting in this huge waiting room that serves quite a few
> > doctors and the big TV hanging from the ceiling is running with all
these
> > mini-info shows on various types of cancer. Being this is a VA facility
> > it's
> > predominately males in the waiting area. I noticed as we sat down that
> > most
> > of the men were watching the TV. These little shows were well done and
> > interesting. We sat through about two and a half shows when we were
called
> > back to see the doctor. When we came out hubby had to process through
the
> > desk there so my attention went back to the big screen. It was on
prostate
> > cancer.
> >
> > I would have liked to have sat back down and watched it but hubby had to
> > go
> > to the lab, etc, and we were both looking forward to a lousy cup of
> > coffee.
> > But what shocked me was not one single person was watching the show on
> > prostate cancer. Not one!!! Every person in there before except for the
> > two
> > men who were cat napping were glued to the TV during the skin cancer
show.
> > What the heck happened? Why weren't they watching?
> >
> > When are men going to face up to the fact that they chance having
prostate
> > cancer and the more they know the better off they will be? I wanted to
> > scream, "watch the TV!" But I didn't. I did walk away rather pissed at
the
> > men sitting there. I doubt there was anyone under the age of 45 in that
> > room, when I came out there was one wife sitting with her husband (don't
> > know where the other two were), probably 60% of the men were black, and
no
> > one was watching! Damn, it makes me mad.
> > :-(
> > Bev
> >
> >
>
>

Dear Bill,

> Sometimes when I tell people I had my prostate removed I can almost
> hear the wheels turning in their heads.
>
> Bill Denton

Yes, especially my sister. When she asks me, "How is he"? I know what
it is she REALLY wants to know. And I won't give her the satisfaction
of hearing it.

The other day a woman mentioned the name of a website where you can
order blue ribbons from. I will get myself one and one for my mother
but don't expect Him to be wearing one anytime soon.


Happy holidays.

Leah

Dear IP,

> I promoted and presented an open, friendly, even humorous talk on PC to
> our homeowners' association of 300 families, mostly middle age and
> seniors. Three people -- two wives and a man -- showed.
>
> I.P.

I have seen the pca show and the skin cancer show, several episodes of
it in fact. First JJ had the melanoma, then the squamous cell and a
couple of weeks ago a basal cell (not the first). In our house we have
a kind of skin ca "du jour".

Then there is that beaut of a melanoma my mother had when she was
pregnant w/me ages ago. And let's not forget sister-in-law Lori's
black beauty mark.

Just so you know, there is no such thing as a "sexy cancer". If you
invite me to your home to watch ANY ca show I will tell you flat out,
"I would love to attend but I have all this ironing I am just dying to
do".

Otherwise, send me an invite and I will be right over.

The sad thing is that my husb's doc and maybe your doc, too, didn't
bother to watch the right "shows". They are the ones who you hope
will be "aware" of things, cross your fingers, anyway.

A man wrote in another NG the other day: "I have an unsupportive wife.
She is always telling me what a dufice I am for not having known what a
PSA test was. Even at age 64."

I wrote back: Well, yes, I can relate (to her) but you (and my husb)
are only SO dumb. Bottom line is the buck stops with the doc. Not
you."

> I promoted . . . humorous talk on PC

Reminds me of what I went thru here trying to master netlingo. The
hardest thing was, "O.T. Humor". Each time I saw that tagline I would
say to to myself, "I was raised on the Old Testament and I never found
it in the least bit funny. More like scared me to death."

Now what exactly do you find humorous in ca?

Miss ya.

LFC

I have a great blue ribbon enamel pin (tie tack) that I bought through our
local hospital's gift shop. Since I hardly ever wear anything other than my
rings and remembering to put it on would be impossible for me I have it on
my purse. No one has ever said a word about it.

My hubby is not going to wear a blue ribbon or bracelet. As a kid he wore a
St. Christopher's medal. His mom tried to give him a beautiful gold chain
necklace for Xmas a couple of years ago. (Dummy, he gave it back to her; he
could have just said thank you and given it to me. LOL) He wears a pen in
his pocket and occasionally a watch. So I'm the one with the blue!
Bev



"callalily" <lfcjjk@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1166136187.552758.40810@t46g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Dear Bill,
>
> > Sometimes when I tell people I had my prostate removed I can almost
> > hear the wheels turning in their heads.
> >
> > Bill Denton
>
> Yes, especially my sister. When she asks me, "How is he"? I know what
> it is she REALLY wants to know. And I won't give her the satisfaction
> of hearing it.
>
> The other day a woman mentioned the name of a website where you can
> order blue ribbons from. I will get myself one and one for my mother
> but don't expect Him to be wearing one anytime soon.
>
>
> Happy holidays.
>
> Leah
>

callalily wrote:
> Dear IP,

> Now what exactly do you find humorous in ca?

In Officer's Training School we got 4-5 auditorium lectures most days,
on a huge variety of topics. All the instructors were very good to
excellent, but one really stood out. He kept us laughing so hard we had
tears running down our cheeks as we wrote furiously to keep up with the
subject information he was firehosing us with. I've never laughed that
hard or continuously at any professional stand-up comic, and have seldom
recorded such densely packed notes. When we learned we were his last
class before his three-year teaching stint ended (he had a "real" Air
Force job normally; this was a sideline), we leaped to our feet and gave
him a rousing, heart-felt, long ovation.

The time was Oct, 1968. Most of us were going to Viet Nam at its peak.
His topic was survivors' care and benefits . . . all about what happens
to and for our widows.

Humor is all in the presentation.

I.P.

kh wrote:

> There's a thought in this newsgroup that "We need to build awareness."
> and "talk about it."
>
> Why?

For starters, because most men and their SOs don't know squat about it,
many men don't go to doctors, many doctors don't check PSA, the vast
majority of doctors don't start PSA checks early enough, and many people
think it's not a risk until they are doddering old geezers.

I.P.

I.P. Freely wrote:

> For starters, because most men and their SOs don't know squat about it,
> many men don't go to doctors, many doctors don't check PSA, the vast
> majority of doctors don't start PSA checks early enough, and many people
> think it's not a risk until they are doddering old geezers.

I don't know a whole lot about coronary heart disease, strokes,
Alzheimer's, ulcers, or most health considerations.

Even stranger, folks who consider themselves "buffs" or "health-fans"
know even less. I'm not talking about body builders abusing steriods,
I mean, the mucus-food people, the colon-cleansers, macro-biotic-types,
Choir-practers; there's even a "raw-meat-is-good" movement.

All a guy needs to know is what I knew, go to a good primary care doc
once a year.

I don't know about the "early enough", my doc was running what he
called the "full panel" which included PSAs when I was 40. 200 bucks
a year, a couple tubes of blood, and 15 minutes of his time. No extra
charge for the teaspoon of K-Y and the kleenix. A bargain.

It's different if you're diagnosed. Then, yes, do your homework.

Until then, I have lots to do.

-kh

kh wrote:
> I.P. Freely wrote:
>
>> For starters, because most men and their SOs don't know squat about it,
>> many men don't go to doctors, many doctors don't check PSA, the vast
>> majority of doctors don't start PSA checks early enough, and many people
>> think it's not a risk until they are doddering old geezers.
>
> I don't know a whole lot about coronary heart disease, strokes,
> Alzheimer's, ulcers, or most health considerations.

So how do you know what works -- and doesn't -- to help protect yourself
from them, and how do you make informed choices about which lifestyle
changes are worth the effort?

> All a guy needs to know is what I knew, go to a good primary care doc
> once a year.

You're way ahead of most American men already, on two counts: "good
primary care doc" and "once a year". The odds are that my PCP killed me
by ignoring my rapidly increasing PSA for three years, the "stupid
doctor tricks" others here relate are equally alarming, and many, maybe
most, men don't get annual checkups anyway, especially the dreaded FUTA.

I.P.

The description of hard-hat workers reminds me of some members of my
own family a couple of generations back... emigrants, factory workers,
stoic about their health, brimming with denial. In contrast, it also
brings to mind the bumper sticker you've probably seen, at least on the
web, "Real men know their PSA."

The other day I filled out a quality of life questionnaire for a woman
in the UK who was engaged in a pilot study in conjunction with the NHS
of the emotional impact that prostate and breast cancers have on
people, and the social sources from which related attitudes eminate
(mass media, family, friends, etc.) One of the items on the male
version of the form, which respondents were asked to rate on a
five-point Likert scale, was "I am able to feel like a man."

I had to think for a minute. This wasn't something that I ever remember
asking myself. Since turning 18 or so, I guess I've just taken it for
granted that I'm a man. I ended up replying in the affirmative,
reasoning that PCa hasn't made me feel "not" like a man. But I
can't easily define what being "a man" is. I can tell you what it
isn't (i.e. a woman), or subsets of men (father, brother, son, etc.)
But more than that it's hard to narrow down.

Last night I came across an essay by Australian Mark Christensen,
entitled "So what does it mean to be a man?" at
http://snipurl.com/14zqx . Reading Christensen's article, my mind
returned to the questionnaire item, which in the context of PCa seemed
to suggest a possible feeling on the part of some that blood flow to
the penis or control of urine are necessarily elements of being "a
man." To accept this at a rational level suggests that what makes a
man is the structure and neurological function of his erectile tissue,
his hormones, or the tightness of the neck of his bladder.

As Tom Cular observed earlier in this thread, "I believe that most
men (not those who participate in this forum) would choose to sit tight
and be silent and suffer, rather than openly discuss issues that they
deem to be a private or personal issue. Can you imagine this scenario?
Two Ironworkers, working 30 floors above the ground and one says to the
other, 'Gee, I couldn't get it up last night,' or 'I don't know
what happened, but I just wet my pants.' It's a macho / stupidity
thing."

Maybe machismo stems from old hunter/gatherer roles. I don't know.
But I do know that it loses any survival value that it might have ever
had for men or the species when it results in denial that leads to
illness and death.

The famous old poem "If" (one of my late father's favorites, read
aloud in his own amateurish voice at http://snipurl.com/14zpp),
doubtless known to most posters in this newsgroup) concludes: "If you
can fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds' worth of distance
run - yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, and - which is
more - you'll be a Man my son!"

Kipling's conclusion that being "a Man" (a mensch, I guess)
involves running life's course and not wasting it, but seeking to
extend and find meaning in it, seems right. But ironically, this
definition is really a gender-neutral true "quality of life"
measure suggesting a willingness to face fears, frustrations, failures
and stumbles, regaining one's footing and continuing the run.

So what does it mean to be a Man? Or a Woman for that matter? How do
they differ, characterologically or otherwise, from simply being human?

My apologies for running off at the fingertips. These questions have
been on my mind lately and this thread brought it to the fore again.


Does anybody have better answers?

Tom

--
http://vitruvian.tomrue.net
http://tomrue.net


On Dec 14, 3:42 pm, "Beverley" <beverly.brow...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Well, 40 years ago the reason people wore hard hats was because of the iron
> workers. (For those unaware of the construction industry back then, hard
> hats kept the pee from running down the back of your neck. Okay that's an
> inside joke.) Those iron workers were crazy, no safety harnesses, no
> nothing, no unions, but the pay was very good for those insane enough. They
> were some of the toughest men around, foul-mouthed, strong, well-muscled,
> Catholic boys (I think it required a great deal of faith to do what they
> did) with names like Malone and Giovanni. (OMG were they gorgeous specimens
> of testosterone!) To them safety harnesses were for sissies as were the
> safety nets that began to go up. Nope, they would never admit to a problem
> then or probably even now.
> Bev



> "Tom Cular" <tho...@verizon.net> wrote in messagenews:8I0gh.1608$e26.899@trndny04...>

[snip]

> > I believe that most men (not those who participate in this forum) would
> > choose to sit tight and be silent and suffer, rather than openly discuss
> > issues that they deem to be a private or personal issue. Can you imagine
> > this scenario? Two Ironworkers, working 30 floors above the ground and one
> > says to the other, "Gee, I couldn't get it up last night, or "I don't know
> > what happened, but I just wet my pants". It's a macho / stupitity thing.

[snip]


> > "Beverley" <beverly.brow...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:__Vfh.8101$495.3716@trnddc06...

[snip]

> > > When are men going to face up to the fact that they chance having prostate
> > > cancer and the more they know the better off they will be? I wanted to
> > > scream, "watch the TV!" But I didn't. I did walk away rather pissed at the
> > > men sitting there. I doubt there was anyone under the age of 45 in that
> > > room, when I came out there was one wife sitting with her husband (don't
> > > know where the other two were), probably 60% of the men were black, and no
> > > one was watching! Damn, it makes me mad.
> > > :-(

[snip]

Mary Fisher wrote: "What makes you think they're assuming that?
Prostate cancer can = death = loss of everything."

Mary, you have to understand the male psyche. Before you get PCa you
don't think you will, and even then you don't think you'll die of it.
But you do fear that it will be the loss of your manhood. And, until
actually faced w/ the prospect of death, that seems a fate was worse
than death.

Bill Denton
RP 2/12/02
PSA 1.10
Memphis

Bill,

Without questioning your point about the importance of sexuality in
"manhood", it seems to me inaccurate to say that most men, or even many
men, would view the loss of erections as "a fate worse than death."
Maybe a few, but when the possibility of death seems remote, such a
tangible potential loss, which is far easier to imagine than the
harder-to-fathom idea of not existing, may certainly seem worse than
the alternative that doesn't seem real. As you say, "Before you get PCa
you don't think you will die, and even then you don't think you'll die
of it." I'm sure we agree that it's a choice that no man wants to have
to make, and one which most healthy men (as far as they know) would
rather not think about. For that reason it's certainly a less
comfortable topic for discussion (or TV viewing) than, say, skin
cancer.

Tom




On Dec 15, 10:43 am, "Bill" <zeros...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote:
> Mary Fisher wrote: "What makes you think they're assuming that?Prostate cancer can = death = loss of everything."
>
> Mary, you have to understand the male psyche. Before you get PCa you
> don't think you will, and even then you don't think you'll die of it.
> But you do fear that it will be the loss of your manhood. And, until
> actually faced w/ the prospect of death, that seems a fate was worse
> than death.
>
> Bill Denton
> RP 2/12/02
> PSA 1.10
> Memphis

"Bill" <zerospam@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1166197395.753193.167700@79g2000cws.googlegro ups.com...
> Mary Fisher wrote: "What makes you think they're assuming that?
> Prostate cancer can = death = loss of everything."
>
> Mary, you have to understand the male psyche. Before you get PCa you
> don't think you will, and even then you don't think you'll die of it.
> But you do fear that it will be the loss of your manhood. And, until
> actually faced w/ the prospect of death, that seems a fate was worse
> than death.

I don't understand anyone else's psyche :-)

But I don't believe that all men think like that. I'm married to one who
didn't.

After RRP in September he's gradually gaining his EF to the pleasure of both
of us but only last night he said if he had to choose he'd rather be
continent and impotent than the other way round. He's been 100% continent
since a few days after the catheter came out. We've had more than our fair
share of lovemaking for the last fifty years :-)

The general trend isn't right for everyone :-)

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote: "What makes you think they're assuming that?
Prostate cancer can = death = loss of everything."

Mary, you have to understand the male psyche. Before you get PCa you
don't think you will, and even then you don't think you'll die of it.
But you do fear that it will be the loss of your manhood. And, until
actually faced w/ the prospect of death, that seems a fate was worse
than death.

Bill Denton
RP 2/12/02
PSA 1.10
Memphis

"tomrue" <tomrue@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166199319.664413.34480@j72g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Bill,
>
> Without questioning your point about the importance of sexuality in
> "manhood", it seems to me inaccurate to say that most men, or even many
> men, would view the loss of erections as "a fate worse than death."
> Maybe a few, but when the possibility of death seems remote, such a
> tangible potential loss, which is far easier to imagine than the
> harder-to-fathom idea of not existing, may certainly seem worse than
> the alternative that doesn't seem real. As you say, "Before you get PCa
> you don't think you will die, and even then you don't think you'll die
> of it."

I think that my having breast cancer might have made a difference to
Spouse's attitude - but we were both matter of fact about that too so I'm
not sure.

Mary

On December 14, Beverley wrote, in pertinent part:

> My hubby is not going to wear a blue ribbon or bracelet. As a kid he wore a
> St. Christopher's medal. His mom tried to give him a beautiful gold chain
> necklace for Xmas a couple of years ago. (Dummy, he gave it back to her; he
> could have just said thank you and given it to me. LOL) He wears a pen in
> his pocket and occasionally a watch. So I'm the one with the blue!

FWIW, I wear a blue ribbon pin everywhere I go. No man has ever asked me
about it, more's the pity.

A few women have, and I give them the PCa Lecture, short or long form as
appropriate. And whenever I meet a woman who is wearing the BCa pink
pin, I consider her a sister and speak to her accordingly.

The pins and related paraphernalia are available at:
http://www.pcaawareness.net/pins_ribbon.html

Regards,

Steve J