Men refused cancer treatment in Britain

A charity for men with prostate cancer says many face a "titanic"
struggle to be prescribed an approved drug.

Taxotere can improve the quality of life of patients in the later
stages of the cancer, and prolong their lives.

The charity claims that some doctors have been told to ration the
number of courses of taxotere that they prescribe by primary care
trusts struggling with limited funds.

Taxotere was originally developed to treat breast cancer.

More than 30,000 men are diagnosed with prostate cancer in the UK each
year, and around 10,000 die from it.

Professor Nick James, of the University of Birmingham, said primary
care trusts would not dare to treat women with breast cancer in the
same way that they treated men with prostate cancer for fear of
attracting negative media headlines.

"Essentially men with prostate cancer get a very raw deal. The people
who make these funding decisions make them with one eye on how it is
going to play in the media."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6112568.stm

--
This is soc.men, we know better. -- Michael Snyder

"Lost" <lostagain@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:454b204b$0$97223$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
>
> A charity for men with prostate cancer says many face a "titanic"
> struggle to be prescribed an approved drug.
>
> Taxotere can improve the quality of life of patients in the later
> stages of the cancer, and prolong their lives.

No, it doesn't prolong lives but it can improve the quality of their lices
in the last months.
>
BBC websites are not authoritative.

Mary

Lost wrote:
> A charity for men with prostate cancer says many face a "titanic"
> struggle to be prescribed an approved drug.

Unlike Herceptin, a totally unproven drug known to cause heart disease
but prescribed even in cases no one claims it can be useful in on the
orer of the Secretary of State for Health to stop the Big Pharma funded
feminists whinging.

[...]
> Taxotere was originally developed to treat breast cancer.

Perfect. Of course, it wouldn't have been developed otherwise.

[...]

"Stephen Morgan" <grauniad2liberty@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1162556094.810480.31100@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
>
> Lost wrote:
>> A charity for men with prostate cancer says many face a "titanic"
>> struggle to be prescribed an approved drug.
>
> Unlike Herceptin, a totally unproven drug known to cause heart disease
> but prescribed even in cases no one claims it can be useful in on the
> orer of the Secretary of State for Health to stop the Big Pharma funded
> feminists whinging.

Only after a LOT of fighting. And not justified in my opinion (I have breast
cancer).
>
> [...]
>> Taxotere was originally developed to treat breast cancer.
>
> Perfect. Of course, it wouldn't have been developed otherwise.

By saying that you're being as silly as those you mock.

Mary

"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:454b333a$0$29538$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet. net...
>
> "Stephen Morgan" <grauniad2liberty@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1162556094.810480.31100@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
>>
>> Lost wrote:
>>> A charity for men with prostate cancer says many face a "titanic"
>>> struggle to be prescribed an approved drug.
>>
>> Unlike Herceptin, a totally unproven drug known to cause heart disease
>> but prescribed even in cases no one claims it can be useful in on the
>> orer of the Secretary of State for Health to stop the Big Pharma funded
>> feminists whinging.
>
> Only after a LOT of fighting. And not justified in my opinion (I have
> breast cancer).
>>
>> [...]
>>> Taxotere was originally developed to treat breast cancer.
>>
>> Perfect. Of course, it wouldn't have been developed otherwise.
>
> By saying that you're being as silly as those you mock.
>
> Mary
>
NO! it is a FACT in the UK that women get over six times the health funding
that men get, just WHAT makes women that O so special to get this, please
tell me?

MCP wrote:
> "Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> >>> Taxotere was originally developed to treat breast cancer.
> >>
> >> Perfect. Of course, it wouldn't have been developed otherwise.
> >
> > By saying that you're being as silly as those you mock.
> >
> > Mary
> >
> NO! it is a FACT in the UK that women get over six times the health funding
> that men get, just WHAT makes women that O so special to get this, please
> tell me?

And in the US it is 3 times.

"MCP" <gf010w5035@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:454b333a$0$29538$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet .net...
>>
>> "Stephen Morgan" <grauniad2liberty@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:1162556094.810480.31100@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
>>>
>>> Lost wrote:
>>>> A charity for men with prostate cancer says many face a "titanic"
>>>> struggle to be prescribed an approved drug.
>>>
>>> Unlike Herceptin, a totally unproven drug known to cause heart disease
>>> but prescribed even in cases no one claims it can be useful in on the
>>> orer of the Secretary of State for Health to stop the Big Pharma funded
>>> feminists whinging.
>>
>> Only after a LOT of fighting. And not justified in my opinion (I have
>> breast cancer).
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>> Taxotere was originally developed to treat breast cancer.
>>>
>>> Perfect. Of course, it wouldn't have been developed otherwise.
>>
>> By saying that you're being as silly as those you mock.
>>
>> Mary
>>
>NO! it is a FACT in the UK that women get over six times the health funding
>that men get, just WHAT makes women that O so special to get this, please
>tell me?

Agreed. Have you seen the cancer research campaign advertisements?
"It's a woman thing" they blare. Pink ribbons handed out to TV
presenters.

Men die seven to eight years younger than females. The research money
should target that anomaly.

--
This is soc.men, we know better. -- Michael Snyder

"Lost" <lostagain@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:454b3b39$0$97255$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
> "MCP" <gf010w5035@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:454b333a$0$29538$4c56ba96@master.news.zetne t.net...
>>>
>>> "Stephen Morgan" <grauniad2liberty@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:1162556094.810480.31100@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
>>>>
>>>> Lost wrote:
>>>>> A charity for men with prostate cancer says many face a "titanic"
>>>>> struggle to be prescribed an approved drug.
>>>>
>>>> Unlike Herceptin, a totally unproven drug known to cause heart disease
>>>> but prescribed even in cases no one claims it can be useful in on the
>>>> orer of the Secretary of State for Health to stop the Big Pharma funded
>>>> feminists whinging.
>>>
>>> Only after a LOT of fighting. And not justified in my opinion (I have
>>> breast cancer).
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>> Taxotere was originally developed to treat breast cancer.
>>>>
>>>> Perfect. Of course, it wouldn't have been developed otherwise.
>>>
>>> By saying that you're being as silly as those you mock.
>>>
>>> Mary
>>>
>>NO! it is a FACT in the UK that women get over six times the health
>>funding
>>that men get, just WHAT makes women that O so special to get this, please
>>tell me?
>
> Agreed. Have you seen the cancer research campaign advertisements?
> "It's a woman thing" they blare. Pink ribbons handed out to TV
> presenters.
>
> Men die seven to eight years younger than females. The research money
> should target that anomaly.

What i would like the "feminasties" on this newsgroup to explain to me is
why are they still shouting for equality when they have had far more than
their fair share for fucking decades?
EVERY second word that Hymendung and her alter ego Pandy is about EQ
Right's, EQ Right's, EQ Right's, Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa! bleating like a bunch of
preggers sheep!
>
> --
> This is soc.men, we know better. -- Michael Snyder

"MCP" <gf010w5035@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:VzG2h.123205$lT5.31120@fe2.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
>
> "Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:454b333a$0$29538$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet. net...
>>
>> "Stephen Morgan" <grauniad2liberty@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:1162556094.810480.31100@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
>>>
>>> Lost wrote:
>>>> A charity for men with prostate cancer says many face a "titanic"
>>>> struggle to be prescribed an approved drug.
>>>
>>> Unlike Herceptin, a totally unproven drug known to cause heart disease
>>> but prescribed even in cases no one claims it can be useful in on the
>>> orer of the Secretary of State for Health to stop the Big Pharma funded
>>> feminists whinging.
>>
>> Only after a LOT of fighting. And not justified in my opinion (I have
>> breast cancer).
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>> Taxotere was originally developed to treat breast cancer.
>>>
>>> Perfect. Of course, it wouldn't have been developed otherwise.
>>
>> By saying that you're being as silly as those you mock.
>>
>> Mary
>>
> NO! it is a FACT in the UK that women get over six times the health
> funding that men get, just WHAT makes women that O so special to get this,
> please tell me?

You were directly comparing breast cancer and prostate cancer. Prostate
cancer has only recently become a problem, it's a fact that the number of pc
diagnoses have doubled in the past ten years. Why? I don't know but I assume
it's because men have ignored symptoms (as mine did) and that now they are
doing something about it. Women are usually more aware of what's going on
and ask for help when they think they might need it.

If men have the courage to seek help they will be dealt with too. There's
certainly a move to encourage them to be more aware of testicular and
prostate cancers (the only ones which don't affect women), I hope that men
take advantage of it and not see concern as a sign of weakness or
threatening their manhood.

But you can't change systems overnight.

As for Taxotere not being developed if it hadn't been for bc, well what's
the point in developing a treatment without an application? You should
rejoice that it's been found to have a limited application for pc as well as
for bc.

Knocking women because they are more active about health is silly. Better
promote mean's health and getting them to do something for themselves.

>
>

"Lost" <lostagain@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:454b3b39$0$97255$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
>>>
>>NO! it is a FACT in the UK that women get over six times the health
>>funding
>>that men get, just WHAT makes women that O so special to get this, please
>>tell me?
>
> Agreed. Have you seen the cancer research campaign advertisements?
> "It's a woman thing" they blare. Pink ribbons handed out to TV
> presenters.

So what are you doing about it? 'You' being men.
>
> Men die seven to eight years younger than females. The research money
> should target that anomaly.

So get off your virtual soap box and into the real world with it.

"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:454b4c54$0$29544$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet. net...


> If men have the courage to seek help they will be dealt with too. There's
> certainly a move to encourage them to be more aware of testicular and
> prostate cancers (the only ones which don't affect women), I hope that men
> take advantage of it and not see concern as a sign of weakness or
> threatening their manhood.


And all to often men are dealt with less than well by the NHS when it comes
to Prostate Cancer. It had nothing to do with being apprehensive in my case,
just an ageing Urologist and the all-too-often present aggressive female
Outpatient Sister - as insensitive and unfeeling and indifferent as they
come. She could certainly, as you so elegantly put it, "deal" with her
patients.

It is not a question of having courage or weakness - that is the voice of an
aggressive woman. Men need to be educated and informed and encouraged to
look after their bodies.

You write
"I assume it's because men have ignored symptoms (as mine did)"

I wonder why your partner was in denial for some time?

M

"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Lost" <lostagain@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>news:454b3b39$0$97255$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.read freenews.net...
>>>>
>>>NO! it is a FACT in the UK that women get over six times the health
>>>funding
>>>that men get, just WHAT makes women that O so special to get this, please
>>>tell me?
>>
>> Agreed. Have you seen the cancer research campaign advertisements?
>> "It's a woman thing" they blare. Pink ribbons handed out to TV
>> presenters.
>
>So what are you doing about it? 'You' being men.
>>
>> Men die seven to eight years younger than females. The research money
>> should target that anomaly.
>
>So get off your virtual soap box and into the real world with it.

No, what are YOU going to do about it?

What help are men ever going to get from greedy, grasping females?

Men pay the taxes, men do the research -- and females get the benefit.

Why? Because men have been brainwashed from birth into believing that
females are made of sugar and spice and men are made of slugs and
snails.

--
This is soc.men, we know better. -- Michael Snyder

Lost wrote:
> A charity for men with prostate cancer says many face a "titanic"
> struggle to be prescribed an approved drug.
>
> Taxotere can improve the quality of life of patients in the later
> stages of the cancer, and prolong their lives.
>
> The charity claims that some doctors have been told to ration the
> number of courses of taxotere that they prescribe by primary care
> trusts struggling with limited funds.
>
> Taxotere was originally developed to treat breast cancer.
>
> More than 30,000 men are diagnosed with prostate cancer in the UK each
> year, and around 10,000 die from it.
>
> Professor Nick James, of the University of Birmingham, said primary
> care trusts would not dare to treat women with breast cancer in the
> same way that they treated men with prostate cancer for fear of
> attracting negative media headlines.
>
> "Essentially men with prostate cancer get a very raw deal. The people
> who make these funding decisions make them with one eye on how it is
> going to play in the media."
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6112568.stm

NO COMMENT!!!

Oh, the hell with that; this is too important for political correctness.
You don't like politics in your forum? THEN STOP THE MASS CROSS-POSTING!

You Americans want this kind of BS in the U.S.? Then vote democrat so
they can force their national (BY DEFINITION, SOCIALIST) health plan
down our throats. It's already failed miserably in TE and WA, and its
author, Hillary Clinton, included this requirement: Choose your own
doctor and both of you will be fined $50,000 and may go to federal
prison. I EARNED my money defending the world from communism; if I
choose to use it to get better medical care, GET OVER IT and earn your
OWN damned money.

Sorry about straying from PC, but I'm f...ing fed up with the direction
the democratic party leaders have taken over the last few decades.

I.P.

"Lost" <lostagain@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:454b63c6$0$97274$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
> "Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Lost" <lostagain@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>news:454b3b39$0$97255$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.rea dfreenews.net...
>>>>>
>>>>NO! it is a FACT in the UK that women get over six times the health
>>>>funding
>>>>that men get, just WHAT makes women that O so special to get this,
>>>>please
>>>>tell me?
>>>
>>> Agreed. Have you seen the cancer research campaign advertisements?
>>> "It's a woman thing" they blare. Pink ribbons handed out to TV
>>> presenters.
>>
>>So what are you doing about it? 'You' being men.
>>>
>>> Men die seven to eight years younger than females. The research money
>>> should target that anomaly.
>>
>>So get off your virtual soap box and into the real world with it.
>
> No, what are YOU going to do about it?

I'm hear. I'm listening to you. I'm not a researcher but I want to spread
the word about prostate cancer and try to make people understand that it,
like breast cancer, isn't the end of the world. I contribute to Orchid
(http://www.orchid-cancer.org.uk/.) Haven't you heard of it? It's been
featured prominently recently. Why not buy the shirt?

What are you doing about it except criticise women?
>
> What help are men ever going to get from greedy, grasping females?

I'm not greedy or grasping. but if you think that you won't get any help
from us you must help yourself.
>
> Men pay the taxes, men do the research -- and females get the benefit.

Women pay taxes and do research.
>
> Why? Because men have been brainwashed from birth into believing that
> females are made of sugar and spice and men are made of slugs and
> snails.

My sons weren't :-) In fact I don't know any man who thinks he's made of
slugs and snails - not that there's anything wrong with slugs and snails
whereas sugar ...

Didn't you have a father? Didn't he have any say in your upbringing? If he
didn't, I suppose that was your mother's fault, couldn't have been his ...

Mary

"HH" <hunniberp@hotmailNOSPAMDELETE.com> wrote in message
news:b9ydnV1oWLxO_NbYRVnysA@bt.com...
>
> "Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:454b4c54$0$29544$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet. net...
>
>
>> If men have the courage to seek help they will be dealt with too. There's
>> certainly a move to encourage them to be more aware of testicular and
>> prostate cancers (the only ones which don't affect women), I hope that
>> men take advantage of it and not see concern as a sign of weakness or
>> threatening their manhood.
>
>
> And all to often men are dealt with less than well by the NHS when it
> comes to Prostate Cancer.

That's a shame but I hope it will improve. There hasn't been the demand in
the past, improvements can't happen overnight. There's a lot of research
going on worldwide - and in UK.

> It had nothing to do with being apprehensive in my case, just an ageing
> Urologist and the all-too-often present aggressive female Outpatient
> Sister - as insensitive and unfeeling and indifferent as they come. She
> could certainly, as you so elegantly put it, "deal" with her patients.

You could have asked for her not to be present, it's your right.

The only insensitive medic we experienced was an elderly man, a urologist. I
had to demand that something happened soon, we couldn't keep our lives on
hold any longer. My husband thought I was out of order - but something
happened and he was treated soon after that. Now, was I, a woman, wrong? Or
was my husband, a man, wrong?

The surgeon was a wonderful man, his cancer support nurse was a a wonderful
woman. The male nursing staff in hospital were less than knowledgeable, one
of the women nurses was officious and wouldn't listen to my husband, all the
other women were great. The pain nurses were both women and very helpful.
You can't make sweeping statements about men and women, there are good and
less good among everyone.

I met an old friend (in age and in years of friendship) in July. I hadn't
seen him for some time but he told me how he'd recently had a prostatectomy
and what a marvellous experience it had been. He didn't have it at the same
hospital as my husband did and his surgeon was a woman. He couldn't praise
her hightly enough and he's of the generation (older than me) who are often
suspicious of women doctors. He admitted that. I was surprised that he'd had
surgery because of his age - almost eighty - but was very pleased. It showed
that not everything we hear is true.
>
> It is not a question of having courage or weakness - that is the voice of
> an aggressive woman.

That's how you hear it and it could say more about you than about me.

> Men need to be educated and informed and encouraged to look after their
> bodies.

I couldn't agree more.
>
> You write
> "I assume it's because men have ignored symptoms (as mine did)"
>
> I wonder why your partner was in denial for some time?

In denial? I didn't say that. And he's not my 'partner', we've been married
to each other for 47 years. He's my husband. He thought he knew his body and
thought I was being over fussy. Perhaps I should have been more agressive
earlier, it was only when I took charge that things happened. I'd been
'submissive' for ten years.

Mary

"I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow> wrote in message
news:3wJ2h.26$s14.18@newsfe05.lga...

> Sorry about straying from PC, but I'm f...ing fed up with the direction
> the democratic party leaders have taken over the last few decades.

I make it seven.

"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:454b7621$0$29541$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet. net...
>
> You could have asked for her not to be present, it's your right.

I really don't need telling what my rights are.
I dealt with the situation - adequately, quietly and firmly. No need for
"demands" as in your following paragraph.


> The only insensitive medic we experienced was an elderly man, a urologist.
> I had to demand that something happened soon, we couldn't keep our lives
> on hold any longer. My husband thought I was out of order - but something
> happened and he was treated soon after that. Now, was I, a woman, wrong?
> Or was my husband, a man, wrong?


Men . . women . . they're all people.
I am quite capable of speaking for myself, as is my wife.

> You can't make sweeping statements about men and women, there are good and
> less good among everyone.

I took my tone/approach from you.


>He thought he knew his body and thought I was being over fussy. Perhaps I
>should have been more agressive earlier, it was only when I took charge
>that things happened. I'd been 'submissive' for ten years.

So perhaps at the time you acted against his wishes/intent?
It has to be possible that he was acting the way he chose, with some
deliberation, and unless there were to be clear mental illness/instability,
neither my wife nor I would ever presume to override the actions/will of the
other . . but perhaps after only 35yrs of marriage we have a lot to learn,
despite experiencing some difficult challenges in Life, so I would bow to
your clearly perceived superior knowledge.

M

"HH" <hunniberp@hotmailNOSPAMDELETE.com> wrote in message
news:woCdneW9t7iBDdbYnZ2dnUVZ8q-dnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:454b7621$0$29541$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet. net...
>>
>> You could have asked for her not to be present, it's your right.
>
> I really don't need telling what my rights are.
> I dealt with the situation - adequately, quietly and firmly.#

So you didn't need to report it here.

>
>
>> The only insensitive medic we experienced was an elderly man, a
>> urologist. I had to demand that something happened soon, we couldn't keep
>> our lives on hold any longer. My husband thought I was out of order - but
>> something happened and he was treated soon after that. Now, was I, a
>> woman, wrong? Or was my husband, a man, wrong?
>
>
> Men . . women . . they're all people.
> I am quite capable of speaking for myself, as is my wife.

Not all men are.
>
>> You can't make sweeping statements about men and women, there are good
>> and less good among everyone.
>
> I took my tone/approach from you.

That's your perception.
>
>
>>He thought he knew his body and thought I was being over fussy. Perhaps I
>>should have been more agressive earlier, it was only when I took charge
>>that things happened. I'd been 'submissive' for ten years.
>
> So perhaps at the time you acted against his wishes/intent?

Yes.

> It has to be possible that he was acting the way he chose, with some
> deliberation, and unless there were to be clear mental
> illness/instability, neither my wife nor I would ever presume to override
> the actions/will of the other . .

He'd still be waiting for treatment if I hadn't spoken up.

> but perhaps after only 35yrs of marriage we have a lot to learn, despite
> experiencing some difficult challenges in Life,

Perhaps. I didn't speak up after only 35 years of marriage. Now I have more
courage. I'm glad that I did speak up - and so is he. We too have had some
difficult challenges. I've always been supportive, that's what love does.
But he's very precious to me and I didn't want to lose him yet.

When I was diagnosed with breast cancer I had to make my own decisions, it
would have been more comforting if he had said what he thought but he didn't
want to appear to be aggressive so I had to. A lot of women have to do that
for themselves and for their men. He's very happy that I did speak up.

How do I know? Because we've been talking about this thread over dinner and
that's what he said.

> so I would bow to your clearly perceived superior knowledge.

I don't think you don't really believe that.

"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:454b9aac$0$29540$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet. net...

>
>> so I would bow to your clearly perceived superior knowledge.
>
> I don't think you don't really believe that.

A double negative . .
suggests confusion of thought . .

and so no further comment.

M

"HH" <hunniberp@hotmailNOSPAMDELETE.com> wrote in message
news:ebydnRCPucb2NNbYnZ2dnUVZ8tudnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:454b9aac$0$29540$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet. net...
>
>>
>>> so I would bow to your clearly perceived superior knowledge.
>>
>> I don't think you don't really believe that.
>
> A double negative . .

You're right, I expect you knew what I meant :-)

> suggests confusion of thought . .

No, only Allah never makes a mistake.
>
> and so no further comment.

Hmm ...

"Lost" <lostagain@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:454b3b39$0$97255$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
> "MCP" <gf010w5035@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:454b333a$0$29538$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet .net...
> >>
> >> "Stephen Morgan" <grauniad2liberty@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> >> news:1162556094.810480.31100@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
> >>>
> >>> Lost wrote:
> >>>> A charity for men with prostate cancer says many face a "titanic"
> >>>> struggle to be prescribed an approved drug.
> >>>
> >>> Unlike Herceptin, a totally unproven drug known to cause heart disease
> >>> but prescribed even in cases no one claims it can be useful in on the
> >>> orer of the Secretary of State for Health to stop the Big Pharma
funded
> >>> feminists whinging.
> >>
> >> Only after a LOT of fighting. And not justified in my opinion (I have
> >> breast cancer).
> >>>
> >>> [...]
> >>>> Taxotere was originally developed to treat breast cancer.
> >>>
> >>> Perfect. Of course, it wouldn't have been developed otherwise.
> >>
> >> By saying that you're being as silly as those you mock.
> >>
> >> Mary
> >>
> >NO! it is a FACT in the UK that women get over six times the health
funding
> >that men get, just WHAT makes women that O so special to get this, please
> >tell me?
>
> Agreed. Have you seen the cancer research campaign advertisements?
> "It's a woman thing" they blare. Pink ribbons handed out to TV
> presenters.
>
> Men die seven to eight years younger than females. The research money
> should target that anomaly.

Well, for what it is worth, the Bills of Mortality done in UK about 1616
(more or less) noted that women were far more likely to visit a doctor than
a man. Nothing changed.

Hello all--
> >
> You were directly comparing breast cancer and prostate cancer. Prostate
> cancer has only recently become a problem, it's a fact that the number of pc
> diagnoses have doubled in the past ten years. Why? I don't know but I assume
> it's because men have ignored symptoms (as mine did) and that now they are
> doing something about it. Women are usually more aware of what's going on
> and ask for help when they think they might need it.
>


I know you really care but it seems like you are blaming men for their
illness. That's very unfair. A man doesn't get pca from not going to
the doctor. There's no "cause and effect" relationship here. The
reason pca is becoming as common as the flu has to do with other
factors like there being more testing and diagnoses, aging of the
population, environment, etc.


> If men have the courage to seek help they will be dealt with too. There's
> certainly a move to encourage them to be more aware of testicular and
> prostate cancers (the only ones which don't affect women), I hope that men
> take advantage of it and not see concern as a sign of weakness or
> threatening their manhood.> Knocking women because they are more active about health is silly. Better > promote mean's health and getting them to do something for themselves.

>

> >
I share your frustration about about men not going to doctors. My
husband was diagnosed with pca (age 53) . As far as I know he had never
had psa test even though his father had had pca. A man in this group,
curtis, wrote that he didn't go to a doctor until a ripe age. The best
thing I saw was an obit in the Economist last week -- the oldest man in
the world died at age 120. He said he had never seen a doctor until he
was 115.

Men are just wired differently, Mary, they are not socialized to be
caretakers, even of themselves. Our brains are different.

As far as men advocating for themselves: You just can't expect
thousands of mwas diagnosed en to storm the White House protesting
about pca. They don't want everyone to stare at their crotches. And I
can't imagine the day when men will be wearing blue ribbons on their
lapels. Personally i refer to pca as the illness "that dares not speak
its name." I wish it weren't so lonely. You just can't talk to people
about problems below the waist. It makes them uncomfortable. They
don't want to hear about your husband's impotence. So you have to keep
everyththing to yourself.

[I have a little private joke that I think about. It gives me an inner
chuckle. Jon had an episode of priapism some weeks ago and I got
panicky at the thought of going to the ER. I just imagined calling my
mother (or my sister) and asking them, "what do you do for a man who
has a permanent hard-on? " Chicken soup, maybe. I have to say the pca
helped me a little because when i don't want my mother around i just
tell her ted is having a "private medical problem." Whoever said god
doesn't give people more than they can handle was drunk. At mid 40's I
have to deal with my husband's illness, my father was critically ill
for a year and died not long ago, my mother is very difficult. She was
recently diagnosed and then "undiagnosed" with Alzheimers. It's a
joke: if you want to put somebody away you can you just get someone to
say they're demented. I took her to a different doc and she got a
perfect score on the mental fitness test. She just can't cope since my
father passed]. I can't believe it when men grouse about not living as
long as women -- they should just look at all the lonely widows!]]

Women will have to solve this problem and maybe gay men because they
are more adept at advocating for themselves and are (i mean that as a
compliment). And on that note I call pca the illness that "dares not
speak its' name." Men have the power in society and they will
eventually get their act together and demand better treatment. For
god's sake i can't turn on the tv without hearing a prostate
commercial.

Best to you all.


Leah

"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:454b2c63$0$29544$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet. net...
>
> "Lost" <lostagain@mailinator.com> wrote in message
> news:454b204b$0$97223$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
>> ...
>> Taxotere can improve the quality of life of patients in the later
>> stages of the cancer, and prolong their lives.
>
> No, it doesn't prolong lives but it can improve the quality of their lices in the last
> months.
....

I don't want to get into the battle of the sexes that seems to
be raging here, but on the medical issues, according to the
U.S. National Cancer Institute, taxotere extends the lives of
terminally ill PCa patients by an averages of several months.
That is an average. Some men will do worse. Some will do
better.

When I reach the terminal stage of some disease or other,
if someone offers me a few more months in exchange for
a few thousand dollars, I'd probably be willing to pay, and
I'd certainly want the insurance that I pay through the nose
to get to pay for it.

If some rich fellow were dying and paid for this kind
of care, no one would call him a fool. The only question is
whether we, as a society, are willing to help out the ordinary
bloke in getting this care.

Alan

Who is the enemy here? Cancer or the other gender, whatever yours
happens to be? The unequal distribution of scarce funds or the scarcity
of funds for research, prevention and treatment? What sad display of
gendered hostility!
Gláucio Soares

Mary Fisher wrote:
> "Stephen Morgan" <grauniad2liberty@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1162556094.810480.31100@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
> >
> > Lost wrote:
> >> A charity for men with prostate cancer says many face a "titanic"
> >> struggle to be prescribed an approved drug.
> >
> > Unlike Herceptin, a totally unproven drug known to cause heart disease
> > but prescribed even in cases no one claims it can be useful in on the
> > orer of the Secretary of State for Health to stop the Big Pharma funded
> > feminists whinging.
>
> Only after a LOT of fighting.

Not much really. Massive funding from Glaxo or whoever and a media
blitz (mostly on BBC Breakfast). The government would never dare stand
up to the drug companies.

> And not justified in my opinion (I have breast
> cancer).

Like the old song says, the drugs don't work, they just make you worse.

> > [...]
> >> Taxotere was originally developed to treat breast cancer.
> >
> > Perfect. Of course, it wouldn't have been developed otherwise.
>
> By saying that you're being as silly as those you mock.

Except I'm factually correct.

"Alan Meyer" <ameyer2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:LrGdnSH1mPIUrNHYnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> ...
>
> I don't want to get into the battle of the sexes that seems to
> be raging here,

Nor did I - I didn't start it :-)

> but on the medical issues, according to the
> U.S. National Cancer Institute, taxotere extends the lives of
> terminally ill PCa patients by an averages of several months.
> That is an average. Some men will do worse. Some will do
> better.

That's not what's said in UK. It's more about quality of life - which is the
same thing, really.
>
> When I reach the terminal stage of some disease or other,
> if someone offers me a few more months in exchange for
> a few thousand dollars, I'd probably be willing to pay, and
> I'd certainly want the insurance that I pay through the nose
> to get to pay for it.

I'd be willing to pay too, for me or Spouse, if it weren't available on the
NHS. I'm amazed that some people will pay huge amounts for short term
holidays or new cars but not for health improvements.
>
> If some rich fellow were dying and paid for this kind
> of care, no one would call him a fool. The only question is
> whether we, as a society, are willing to help out the ordinary
> bloke in getting this care.

The trouble is that it's not just cancer care drugs. There are thousands of
things which can prolong or improve life quality, doesn't a line have to be
drawn somewhere?

Mary
>
> Alan
>

<soares.glaucio@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1162631056.380424.174360@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
Who is the enemy here? Cancer or the other gender, whatever yours
happens to be? The unequal distribution of scarce funds or the scarcity
of funds for research, prevention and treatment? What sad display of
gendered hostility!


I agree. I'm not at all hostile to men. Or women, come to that :-)

I care about people suffering unnecessarily and ignoring differences in
their lives which might benefit from a check.

Mary

"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:454c674f$0$29543$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet. net...


> I'd be willing to pay too, for me or Spouse, if it weren't available on
> the NHS. I'm amazed that some people will pay huge amounts for short term
> holidays or new cars but not for health improvements.

Life is about choices in the Western World at least, and we all make our own
decisions, usually informed or otherwise, and for some the trip to see Ayers
Rock in Oz or The Grand Canyon in the USA is preferable to a few extra
months of low quality living, and even a trip to Scarborough or Torquay for
many in the latter stages may be made in the hope of leaving some fond
memories for those left behind.

I'm sure you don't intend to sound so prescriptive, but a somewhat moderated
tone and style would be far less irritating: you want everyone to live and
think your way it seems . . a somewhat spartan regime of "Mary knows
best".

M

"callalily" <lfcjjk@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1162605408.952780.313510@h54g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> Hello all--
>> >
>> You were directly comparing breast cancer and prostate cancer. Prostate
>> cancer has only recently become a problem, it's a fact that the number of
>> pc
>> diagnoses have doubled in the past ten years. Why? I don't know but I
>> assume
>> it's because men have ignored symptoms (as mine did) and that now they
>> are
>> doing something about it. Women are usually more aware of what's going on
>> and ask for help when they think they might need it.
>>
>
>
> I know you really care but it seems like you are blaming men for their
> illness.

I'm not.

> That's very unfair. A man doesn't get pca from not going to
> the doctor.

Of course he doesn't.

> There's no "cause and effect" relationship here. The
> reason pca is becoming as common as the flu has to do with other
> factors like there being more testing and diagnoses, aging of the
> population, environment, etc.

Yes - and perhaps because of men becoming more aware of changes in their
bodies which might indicate a disease process - such as frequency in
micturation or spraying or reduced flow. Yes, they can be caused by benign
conditions but they're worth not ignoring.

Women who find breast lumps are more likely now to have them checked out -
sadly not enough do. We're told that most lumps or changes in conformation
are benign, the few which aren't can be dealt with at an early stage instead
of spreading.

It's exactly the same thing. Ignorance isn't bliss, it's not sensible.
>
>
>> >
> I share your frustration about about men not going to doctors. My
> husband was diagnosed with pca (age 53) . As far as I know he had never
> had psa test even though his father had had pca. A man in this group,
> curtis, wrote that he didn't go to a doctor until a ripe age. The best
> thing I saw was an obit in the Economist last week -- the oldest man in
> the world died at age 120. He said he had never seen a doctor until he
> was 115.
>
> Men are just wired differently, Mary, they are not socialized to be
> caretakers, even of themselves. Our brains are different.

Careful - that's what I've been saying and have been accused of being a
feminist or aggressive :-) We - mothers of sons and wives of husbands and
even daughters of fathers must encourage them to take care of themselves.
The hand that rocks the cradle ... The Fisher sons are very aware of their
bodies and what can go wrong, they're not reticent of talking to us or
anyone else about it. So are the Fisher daughters.
>
> As far as men advocating for themselves: You just can't expect
> thousands of mwas diagnosed en to storm the White House protesting
> about pca.

Of course not. But if more consult their GPs about the changes I've
mentioned it will become evident that there is more need for action.

> They don't want everyone to stare at their crotches. And I
> can't imagine the day when men will be wearing blue ribbons on their
> lapels. Personally i refer to pca as the illness "that dares not speak
> its name." I wish it weren't so lonely. You just can't talk to people
> about problems below the waist. It makes them uncomfortable.

Women have had problems 'down there' for a long time - and talked about it
openly. I do about mine. It's just a different plumbing system.

> They
> don't want to hear about your husband's impotence.

Well that's tough - my friends and relatives are having to hear about
Spouse's - from both him and me. Such reticence does the cause no favours.

> So you have to keep
> everyththing to yourself.

I don't think you do. If Spouse had his appendix out there's be nothing
secret about it. The prostate is pretty close to that and far more
important. Why on Earth not talk about it - and help to spread the word
about the condition. In that way more men might seek advice and be treated
early. Several of our men friends have sought advice as a result of our
talkiing about it, up to now none has had to go for further investigation.
But they're on a roll now and will have annual checks - just like women have
regular mammograms (that's how my bc was discovered - my lump was too deep
to be palpated).
>
> [I have a little private joke that I think about. It gives me an inner
> chuckle. Jon had an episode of priapism some weeks ago and I got
> panicky at the thought of going to the ER. I just imagined calling my
> mother (or my sister) and asking them, "what do you do for a man who
> has a permanent hard-on? " Chicken soup, maybe. I have to say the pca
> helped me a little because when i don't want my mother around i just
> tell her ted is having a "private medical problem." Whoever said god
> doesn't give people more than they can handle was drunk. At mid 40's I
> have to deal with my husband's illness, my father was critically ill
> for a year and died not long ago, my mother is very difficult. She was
> recently diagnosed and then "undiagnosed" with Alzheimers. It's a
> joke: if you want to put somebody away you can you just get someone to
> say they're demented. I took her to a different doc and she got a
> perfect score on the mental fitness test. She just can't cope since my
> father passed]. I can't believe it when men grouse about not living as
> long as women -- they should just look at all the lonely widows!]]

Indeed, this street if full of them. Two lost their husbands fairly recently
to prostate cancer because they left it too late to seek help. We surely
should be encouraging men - all men, not just those close to us - to take
care of every part of their bodies.

Twenty two years ago Spouse ignored breathing problems, he refused to go to
the doctors, saying that he was just a little out of breath, he'd been
working hard. He recovered from his heart attack and said he'd take more
notice of me from then on. He did for a few years but when I wanted him to
see a urologist he said it was nothing, he'd always got up through the
night, he was just getting older ... Now he's vowed that he WILL take notice
of me, whatever I say.

<sigh> I hope he does, he's very precious to me and his children. We're both
going to die one day and it might be today, accidentally, but while we have
some control over our lives we should exercise it, whether we're men or
women.
>
> Women will have to solve this problem and maybe gay men because they
> are more adept at advocating for themselves and are (i mean that as a
> compliment).

I agree.

> And on that note I call pca the illness that "dares not
> speak its' name." Men have the power in society and they will
> eventually get their act together and demand better treatment. For
> god's sake i can't turn on the tv without hearing a prostate
> commercial.

But are the men who see them taking any notice? I don't know. We don't have
a tv anyway (no time to watch) so I don't see anything like that. It
shouldn't stop there though, we - pc survivors and our families - have a
responsibility to talk about it openly and spread the word. If people don't
like it that's tough - although I haven't found anyone who's expressed any
embarrassment yet. If I didn't speak its name and someone I knew died of pc
I'd feel guilty.

Hugs,

Mary