My 'project'

> Hughie,
> http://www.ifishoulddie.co.uk/cremation.php
> It says here that the "average cost of going to a solicitor is around £65
> for a
> single will" (under will)

I was shown how to do my own by my first wife's younger brother - he's a
solicitor. The Will I completed a few weeks back has been checked by him and
it's fine, but lodged with my bank - in case someone decides to 'lose' it.
An old Army colleague and I agreed years ago that we'd act as each other's
Executor - depending on who went first. I contacted him at the same time I
wrote the Will - he's in great health and coming down to stay for a weekend.
Ronnie - bro in law - will do the legals, probably for nada.

> As to the cost of a wooden box,
> http://www.ifishoulddie.co.uk/paying_for_a_funeral.php
> Average cost of cremation is £1,101. (so I think someone's given you
> misinformation). There should be no need for an £900 burnable box.

Information I got about a DIY funeral I made enquiries - it all looked at
first to be very easilly done.
However - not a single crematorium near me (within 100 miles) will entertain
a privately planned funeral. It HAS to be done through a recognised and
bona-fide Undertaker.
I contacted nine (9) different undertakers. Requested "A Basic Cremation
funeral under your charter" (or some such wording) Which is for a Coffin -
no embalming - use of a Hearse and no limousines - professional services of
the undertaker - Crematorium fees and that's it. One undertaker insisted
that the body HAD to be embalmed. He was told to fuck off. The other
charges that I was quoted started to run up to a huge bill - pickup from
place of death - £200. If that was 'out of hours' - it went to £300. Chapel
of rest & Viewing - £300. Etc, ad infinitum. One even quoted £180 for 'A
basic flower display' Urns? - forget it - throw the ashes in the garden.
The most expensive here in Glasgow, was Jonathan Harvey - £2,600 (For the
most basic funeral)
Cheapest was Robertson Bros, at £1870. That one - no choice of venue or
time - you just get 'fitted in' - usually used by Social Services for
Council funded funerals for the very poor.
My own Minister does Parishioners for free - but you pay £50 for the
Organist and Beadle services.
Nearest 'Green' burial site - is in Cumbria in England - 130 miles away.
Also asked about a wicker coffin? - almost as expensive as wood and few
undertakers were willing.
Cardboard? - 'Not fitting' which is a lot of shit.
If someone famous and rich can have their remains cremated in a body-bag -
why can that not be extended to lesser mortals? I remember reading in a
newspaper a long time back, that when Rock Hudson died, he was cremated in a
bodybag within a few hours of death. Was that because he had Aids? I doubt
it. 'course - mebbe the undertakers had supplied a body-bag with special
fittings and a silk lining...
It's all just a conspiracy by Undertakers to get as much money as they can
out of people at a vulnerable time.
I've accepted that I'll just have to pay that up-front - I've already
started paying into a 'funeral plan' - against my better judgement.
Asked about leaving my body to science? I'm apparently not pretty enough -
so that was out.
I humorously thought it might be an idea if you could leave your rotten bag
of stuff to a zoo - feed a Lion or something, cost nada and save the zoo
some cash. (Don't anybody reply to that - it was just a passing thought!)
In Scots law, there is no value in a dead body - why have to spend as much
then in dealing with it hygeinically?

> Dad distributed some items to each member of the family a year or so
> before he
> died. That way he was sure there'd be no arguinng and no one left out.
> There's
> also "bootsales" or "ebay"" if you don't want to distribute your valuables
> to
> siblings...

I'm going to have to start disposing of the other valuables - some arse
coming across them would think 'old books? - binned!' My dinosaur fossil
was once almost thrown out by someone in a clear-out - she thought it was a
'big old rock'.

> In our country, numerous copies of original death certificates were
> required
> (not photocopies), so there was extra cost for that.

In Scotland - two originals required - one for the undertaker and one for
the lawyer. The rest can be 'copies' called an 'Abbreviated Certificate of
Death' but those must be issued by the same registry office supplying the
original. The originals cost £20 each, 'copies' cost £10 each. Copies are
allowed for the likes of Insurance, Banks, Department of Work & Pensions -
who deal with the taxman.

> There was a minor cost to place an obituary notice in a newspaper. They
> were
> supposed to send us a copy of the original, but they forgot. I found it
> online
> and printed it up and sent it to each member of the family.

I'm not so well-known that it would need a notice in a newspaper. I don't
live anywhere near where I was brought up and as far as I know, most of my
old shool-mates have moved from that small village - so I doubt if anyone
there would even remember me. I've left a list of people to be contacted in
any case- with a form letter.

> No will? Well, maybe that's beter if you'll be owing money. I don't know.
> In our country, everyone else has their hands in it, before the residue is
> counted out and relegated per your wishes.
> J
Die intestate here and it ALL gets put into the hands of a Lawyer. The Court
of Probate then makes all the decisions. They are usually as fast as your
lawyer is efficient.
My Mother died four years ago without a will, but enough property that it
did involve death duties paid to the taxman, but it all took just 7 months
to settlement.

Hugh Kearnley wrote:

> I'm going to have to start disposing of the other valuables - some arse
> coming across them would think 'old books? - binned!' My dinosaur fossil
> was once almost thrown out by someone in a clear-out - she thought it was a
> 'big old rock'.

Good idea. Someone disposed of (some) books that my Dad had, yet left others.
They (relatives) claimed no knowledge so they were either thrown out thinking
they'd have no value or he'd disposed of them earlier in his life. They may or
may not have had dollar value, but I wanted them and should have been asked
before throwing them out. (it may have been him, before moving from one end of
Canada to the other, many years earlier). Quite a few heirlooms (handed down
through many generations) were sold at yard sale/disposed of, despite our
having told them earlier what each of us wished to have.
J

No, IP - the Senna was prescribed along with a bottle of something
disgustingly sweet - to make me 'go' when I started on the Morphine. Before
that never had any problems with bowels. More 'regular' than most really,
the amount of fibre I used to get through. Ain't got an ulcer either. Don't
think anything lay inside my belly long enough to give me one! The back
pain has been on-going since an industrial accident in 198-2? I think it
was.

"I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow> wrote in message
news:9OpEh.198$6g5.7@newsfe04.lga...
> The worst prolonged pain I've ever experienced was caused directly by
> senna acting on my ulcer. It's right there in its medical pamphlet. Sure
> you don't have an ulcer? (OK, it's an unlikely cause of back pain, but
> it's a thought.)
>
> I.P.

Hugh Kearnley wrote:
> The other
> charges that I was quoted started to run up to a huge bill

It's just a thought, but if one wanted to poke a stick in the eye of
one's government, what better way than to sell or give everything away
in advance and die flat broke? It's not like the government is going to
let us R.I.P. (Rot In Place). i.e., Let them pay for it.

>> numerous copies of original death certificates were required

"Required"? They can "require" all they want, but if I'm dead and my
stuff and money are all gone, they're gone do . . . what? Go after
Ronnie to recover your rock, cash, and cat? And, oh yes . . . take out a
reverse mortgage on the house and give THAT money away. The bank will
get their fair share out of the home. After all, the whole idea is for
our last check -- made out to the undertaker -- to bounce.

> I'm not so well-known that it would need a notice in a newspaper.

For a fee, many papers publish very lengthy obituaries. Most are very
stilted, sounding professionally written by an undertaker on Valium.
Screeeewwww that! Given advance notice, I'm going to write my own, and I
guarantee it won't be stilted. Even readers who never heard of me are
going to enjoy most of it, get some ideas on how to live life, and choke
on a major *I TOLD YOU SO* about the threats the world faces right now.
I'll bet yours would be a hoot, too.

I.P.

"J" <nexsw@nvalid,anon> wrote in message
news:45E2DC14.FD3D221C@execulink.com...
>
> Hugh Kearnley wrote:
>
>> I'm going to have to start disposing of the other valuables - some arse
>> coming across them would think 'old books? - binned!' My dinosaur fossil
>> was once almost thrown out by someone in a clear-out - she thought it was
>> a
>> 'big old rock'.
>
> Good idea. Someone disposed of (some) books that my Dad had, yet left
> others.
> They (relatives) claimed no knowledge so they were either thrown out
> thinking
> they'd have no value or he'd disposed of them earlier in his life. They
> may or
> may not have had dollar value, but I wanted them and should have been
> asked
> before throwing them out. (it may have been him, before moving from one
> end of
> Canada to the other, many years earlier). Quite a few heirlooms (handed
> down
> through many generations) were sold at yard sale/disposed of, despite our
> having told them earlier what each of us wished to have.

Half of me wants to cringe at the thought that my old books would end up in
a garage sale. I've really enjoyed some of them old tomes. There is
nothing like reading history from a book written more than a century before.

However, the other half of me recalls that garage sales and flea markets is
where I got half of them.



--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06, 6/06
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

A living trust is great for most people. However, if your spouse is
quite a bit younger than you, a living trust is nothing but trouble.
My spouse and I spent over $4000 to set one up - first $900 with a
regular estate attorney who wasn't able to set it up they way we
wanted and then $3500 with an "expert" in a high rise big-name firm
who set up something quite impressive but later when we read it
carefully it also didn't do what we wanted so we just abandoned the
whole idea and took everything out of the trust and officially revoked
it. Our problems hinged on the fact I have children from a previous
marriage and my spouse who makes a good salary wants (rightfully) her
earnings to go to her family. While I'm sure we could eventually find
an attorney who can set things up the way we want, we're burned out
lining the pockets of lawyers so I'm going to give away all my assets
to my children while I'm alive and have my spouse buy them out of what
little is left. She can then set up her own trust exclusively for her
family. That plan isn't the wisest for tax savings but who knows
what's going to happen with taxes decades in the future.

Also, a previous poster said something about when the money runs out
in a nursing facility that Medicare takes over. I've always heard
that Medicare never pays for this stuff except in only limited
amounts. In California it's Medical that pays which is a joint state/
fed program and it kicks in only after the patient's assets are given
away or drained away to nearly zero. Not all facilities accept
Medical so a person can be "put out into the street" or at least into
a less favorable facility.

Finally, I expect to write my own obituary, at least I hope they still
have obituaries forty years down the road (yeah, right). I'm also
trying to think of something clever to put on the gravestone -
something like "Today me, tomorrow you" but my spouse frowns on the
idea and since she will have the final say it has to be something to
please her as well. That's going to be tough to do.
Dave Perry

Hugh Kearnley wrote:

> I've provisioned to pass over at home. in my own bed, listening to favourite
> music, the Tiger in my arms. Payment for Nurses is accounted for - but what
> I find revolting - the cost of a coffin for a cremation. I'm NOT going to
> be there - I'll be elsewhere - and to cruelly STRIP the Earth of MORE wood
> is unnacceptable - especially at a minimum cost of £900 per burnable box. -
> Can't they just do something with scrap wood like old orange crates? It's
> ALL consumed in the end.
> Hughie

http://www.igreens.org.uk/woodland_burial_sites_uk.htm
There's 5 or 6 sites mentioned there, one in SW Scotland.
Call at least one of them; somebody's yanking your pocketbook by charging so
much for a container.
They may have a tip for you about how to handle that.

In the US, one lady buried her loved one under a tree.

Another, picked up the ashes in a paper bag.

Another picked up the ashes; then someone in the family made a floating
memorial, put the ashes on it, lit it on fire and they had their ceremony while
it drifted off to sea/river/lake.

Re: nurses
I do expect that you'll need nursing there since you are alone.

However, that's not enough. Nodoby can cargive 24/7.

Some "home" resources are here.
http://www.palliativecarescotland.or...re/glasgow.htm
http://www.ppwh.org.uk/index.cfm/page/44

Call to see if they range as far as you live or who would.
Hopefully their services are free; but get in on it early; in case there's long
lists.

And you could probably find them useful now, with issues like constipation and
not giving you something too sweet. They might be able to recommend something
different and if it's prescribed recommend it to (ask) the prescriber.
J

A Glasgow woman went into a newspaper office to place an obituary for her
husband.
'How much?' she asked.
'How much have ye got?' asked the wee man behind the counter.
'£5' she said.
'Ye'll not get much for £5' said the wee man - 'but go ahead and write
something'
So, the woman wrote a few words on the form and handed it back.
The wee man looked at and it read - 'Peter Reid from Parkheid - Deid'
The wee man felt sorry that he had seemed harsh - so gave her the form back
and told her to write some more.
She did that. This time, the form read:
'Peter Reid from Parkheid - Deid - Ford van for sale'


"I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow> wrote in message
news:twDEh.10$xo4.3@newsfe04.lga...
> Hugh Kearnley wrote:
>> The other charges that I was quoted started to run up to a huge bill
>
> It's just a thought, but if one wanted to poke a stick in the eye of one's
> government, what better way than to sell or give everything away in
> advance and die flat broke? It's not like the government is going to let
> us R.I.P. (Rot In Place). i.e., Let them pay for it.
>
>>> numerous copies of original death certificates were required
>
> "Required"? They can "require" all they want, but if I'm dead and my stuff
> and money are all gone, they're gone do . . . what? Go after Ronnie to
> recover your rock, cash, and cat? And, oh yes . . . take out a reverse
> mortgage on the house and give THAT money away. The bank will get their
> fair share out of the home. After all, the whole idea is for our last
> check -- made out to the undertaker -- to bounce.
>
>> I'm not so well-known that it would need a notice in a newspaper.
>
> For a fee, many papers publish very lengthy obituaries. Most are very
> stilted, sounding professionally written by an undertaker on Valium.
> Screeeewwww that! Given advance notice, I'm going to write my own, and I
> guarantee it won't be stilted. Even readers who never heard of me are
> going to enjoy most of it, get some ideas on how to live life, and choke
> on a major *I TOLD YOU SO* about the threats the world faces right now.
> I'll bet yours would be a hoot, too.
>
> I.P.

I'll let someone else take the info about the burial sites. I have a 'thing'
about burial for myself, it's a last option. But - cremation for me.
Anyway - I've had enough of this morbidity for a while. The money's being
paid into a funeral plan and it's been sorted.out this afternoon - AND -
this made me laugh when I got outside - if I die within a year of signing,
the unpaid installments are covered by insurance. There were no health
questions. £50 per CalMo total to pay is £2100 and covers coffin, hearse, 2
limos and flowers, disbursements, etc. It was the cheapest under the plan
and I'm not really going to miss £50 a month THAT much. Knowing my luck -
I'll see it paid off.


> http://www.igreens.org.uk/woodland_burial_sites_uk.htm
> There's 5 or 6 sites mentioned there, one in SW Scotland.
> Call at least one of them; somebody's yanking your pocketbook by charging
> so
> much for a container.
> They may have a tip for you about how to handle that.
>
> In the US, one lady buried her loved one under a tree.

In the Highlands and Islands it was common practice until an Act of
Parliament in 1934 that stopped people being buried in any place they chose
(e.g. - backyards and unused ground attached to their homes)

> Another, picked up the ashes in a paper bag.
>
> Another picked up the ashes; then someone in the family made a floating
> memorial, put the ashes on it, lit it on fire and they had their ceremony
> while
> it drifted off to sea/river/lake.

I'm not into ceremonies! and don't want to be the reason for one. The
funeral will be quite enough.

> Re: nurses
> I do expect that you'll need nursing there since you are alone.
>
> However, that's not enough. Nodoby can cargive 24/7.
>
> Some "home" resources are here.
> http://www.palliativecarescotland.or...re/glasgow.htm
> http://www.ppwh.org.uk/index.cfm/page/44

I really do have a very large extended sibling family (Not that I see them
very much since a massive fall-out - but word spreads and I've had a lot of
cards - so maybe some kiss and make-up is on the horizon?) apart from my own
kids. Among them there are two RGN's, a male Mental nurse and a MacMillan
Cancer nurse. Three others who work as nursing auxilliaries. My last wife is
a Charge Nurse at Glasgow Western Infirmary - on the Coronary Care Ward.
(THAT really TERRIFIES me - we parted on very bad terms - what if I..? No
the thought doesn't stand up, she's a Nurse not a fucking Murdress.)
They've all done their part in the past when others were terminal. The
general idea is that they take holiday days or are paid by the family for
missed shifts - that's why I say nursing is already accounted for - they can
take over shift when the assigned Macmillan's are out of hours. The only
slight problem is that they all live in a fairly tight 3-miles cluster about
30 miles away. (Apart from ex-wife 2 - who lives just a neighnourhood away)
It's a straight Motorway road. That's already sorted too, with promises to
transform two unused bedrooms into bed-sitting rooms for them by two
nephews - work to be done next weekend or the one after (And there goes my
little gymnasium - fuckit)
In any case, once it gets seriously bad enough, I don't intend hanging about
comatose and out of it for weeks - or longer. I had to do a lot of this
arranging twice now, so I know what I'm doing. St Margaret's Hospice and
the British Legion have special help for ex-servicemen (I only found that
out today when I nipped into the local Legion Club for a Beer after
arranging the Funeral Plan.) I hadn't said to anyone - there were brochures
on a wall to be picked up.
Just under a year ago, I won a huge very expensive Audio-Visual system that
is more suited to a Pub or a Hall. It just fits against the whole of one
wall. The audio part of it alone is worth perhaps £K6 maybe more - all top
of the line stuff - NAD, Nakamichi, KEF and so on. I'm just wondering if I
should let that go just now and see what I could get for it. It's not put to
it's capabilities in a domestic setting - and my living room is 40' by 18'
(The TV is a flat 62" screen wall-mounted affair and just TOO damn big) My
TV before that was big enough and I had a desent enough hi-fi. (In my
bedroom now but never used) My Fishing club guys - when I first got the
thing were up here anytime something good SPORTS was on - riotous night with
sound levels that had the cops at the door several times and enough beers to
float the Queen Mary. I had to put my foot down. I mean 7-channels belting
out enough sound to drown out a rock band - not on! - even if most of my
neighbours are - well, I don't like most of them.
I wonder how much I'd get for it all. Don't fancy leaving for some Oik
bloody great-nephew I never even seen picking it up as a souvenir. I'll get
down to McCormack's hi-fi shop tomorrow. (Best in the West of Scotland)
Probably have to bring them back here for a demo.

I already downloaded a LONG essay entitled "End of Life Care" which made
VERY depressing reading and which outlines for carers the various stages of
dying. I've lost the link for it now but will look again. I have
deliberately excluded it THUS far from my Project but think it really needs
to be included at some point.
Another download was called - "CHOICES - Living with Cancer - Dying with
Dignity" - about a guy with PCa. Matthew Sugarman It was more uplifting
and gave me more confidence than the previous epistle.
From those, I got an idea of what to expect, but as I said, I'll make an
arrangement with my carers that IF I get to to the stage where I'm
Hypercalcaemic, they do nothing and let me go. Similarly if something else
goes awry and I slip into a coma - to withold nutrition unless I make some
signs that I require that to continue.
This whole subject may make some people uneasy. I'm sorry - this is MY
cancer, MY body and my Life. I really don't think that the guy (IS God a
Man?) who created me wants me to live with pain or as a vegetable. I'm
certain that my decision to create a little bit more room for newer and
healthy life would be a blessed one. I'm not going to relate the hows it
will be done for that would perhaps implicate someone I have mixed emotions
about, Love - I think, being the dominant ones.

Anyway - enough of this YET AGAIN! - I have some life to CRAM into what time
remains. As I said - with my luck - I'll see you fuckers off.
It's twenty minutes to Ten here at night, and I've been asked by a Nephew to
go to a Dance Club in the City. Pole Dancing! I never been to see that!
What the Hell. Why the FUCK not? I'm a respectable SINGLE Man after all.
But I'll bet the cost of the drinks is extortionate.
I may be back later to relate the adventure - but I doubt it will be
tonight!
Looking forward to some fun...
Meant to say I watched the movie 'VENUS' early this morning (with breakfast)
Made me laugh - but I don't think it was properly done. O'Toole died far too
early -unles his wound got infected?) Getting hauled out of the chair.
Goodnight.
HUGHIE.






>
> Call to see if they range as far as you live or who would.
> Hopefully their services are free; but get in on it early; in case there's
> long
> lists.
>
> And you could probably find them useful now, with issues like constipation
> and
> not giving you something too sweet. They might be able to recommend
> something
> different and if it's prescribed recommend it to (ask) the prescriber.
> J
>

I have a very old and torn book that I often look at when i'm feeling
wanting.
"Eight Great Lives" by the Immortal PLUTARCH. Takes place beside my Holy
Bible and my History of the English Speaking Peoples, written by another of
my heroes - Sir Winston Churchill.
Examining Plutarch's "Alskander" - 'Alexander the Great' I get such a vivid
immagination of that young warrior and frequently daftly fall asleep
immaging myself as one of the Cohorts called up for battle . This is all
probably down to my immagination as taking part in daft (But actual)
battles. I can hear the scream of battle - myself plunging spears into
bodies and then I wake up. THESE days - heavilly sweating. I never actually
KILL anyone, - I just protect my King - Alexander. (I have a brother called
alexander - and I DETEST the shit!)

I'll ask you ALL now - Do YOU get these fucking weird dreams-Nightmares?





"Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:45e306de$0$8968$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
>
> "J" <nexsw@nvalid,anon> wrote in message
> news:45E2DC14.FD3D221C@execulink.com...
>>
>> Hugh Kearnley wrote:
>>
>>> I'm going to have to start disposing of the other valuables - some arse
>>> coming across them would think 'old books? - binned!' My dinosaur
>>> fossil
>>> was once almost thrown out by someone in a clear-out - she thought it
>>> was a
>>> 'big old rock'.
>>
>> Good idea. Someone disposed of (some) books that my Dad had, yet left
>> others.
>> They (relatives) claimed no knowledge so they were either thrown out
>> thinking
>> they'd have no value or he'd disposed of them earlier in his life. They
>> may or
>> may not have had dollar value, but I wanted them and should have been
>> asked
>> before throwing them out. (it may have been him, before moving from one
>> end of
>> Canada to the other, many years earlier). Quite a few heirlooms (handed
>> down
>> through many generations) were sold at yard sale/disposed of, despite
>> our
>> having told them earlier what each of us wished to have.
>
> Half of me wants to cringe at the thought that my old books would end up
> in a garage sale. I've really enjoyed some of them old tomes. There is
> nothing like reading history from a book written more than a century
> before.
>
> However, the other half of me recalls that garage sales and flea markets
> is where I got half of them.
>
>
>
> --
> PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
> Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
> RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
> PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
> EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
> PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
> Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
> 2/06, 6/06
> PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
> Casodex added daily 07/06
> PSA <0.04
> Non Illegitimi Carborundum
>
>

Added to that - anyone get silly emotional episodes - weeping about the new
gun for a tank, silly shit like new feed for Chickens and you start
blubbing?
Or - am I the only fuck getting this.

"Hugh Kearnley" <hughkearnley@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:lc2dna342v1i8n7YRVnyuAA@bt.com...
>I have a very old and torn book that I often look at when i'm feeling
>wanting.
> "Eight Great Lives" by the Immortal PLUTARCH. Takes place beside my Holy
> Bible and my History of the English Speaking Peoples, written by another
> of my heroes - Sir Winston Churchill.
> Examining Plutarch's "Alskander" - 'Alexander the Great' I get such a
> vivid immagination of that young warrior and frequently daftly fall asleep
> immaging myself as one of the Cohorts called up for battle . This is all
> probably down to my immagination as taking part in daft (But actual)
> battles. I can hear the scream of battle - myself plunging spears into
> bodies and then I wake up. THESE days - heavilly sweating. I never
> actually KILL anyone, - I just protect my King - Alexander. (I have a
> brother called alexander - and I DETEST the shit!)
>
> I'll ask you ALL now - Do YOU get these fucking weird dreams-Nightmares?
>
>
>
>
>
> "Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:45e306de$0$8968$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>>
>> "J" <nexsw@nvalid,anon> wrote in message
>> news:45E2DC14.FD3D221C@execulink.com...
>>>
>>> Hugh Kearnley wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm going to have to start disposing of the other valuables - some arse
>>>> coming across them would think 'old books? - binned!' My dinosaur
>>>> fossil
>>>> was once almost thrown out by someone in a clear-out - she thought it
>>>> was a
>>>> 'big old rock'.
>>>
>>> Good idea. Someone disposed of (some) books that my Dad had, yet left
>>> others.
>>> They (relatives) claimed no knowledge so they were either thrown out
>>> thinking
>>> they'd have no value or he'd disposed of them earlier in his life. They
>>> may or
>>> may not have had dollar value, but I wanted them and should have been
>>> asked
>>> before throwing them out. (it may have been him, before moving from one
>>> end of
>>> Canada to the other, many years earlier). Quite a few heirlooms (handed
>>> down
>>> through many generations) were sold at yard sale/disposed of, despite
>>> our
>>> having told them earlier what each of us wished to have.
>>
>> Half of me wants to cringe at the thought that my old books would end up
>> in a garage sale. I've really enjoyed some of them old tomes. There is
>> nothing like reading history from a book written more than a century
>> before.
>>
>> However, the other half of me recalls that garage sales and flea markets
>> is where I got half of them.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
>> Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
>> RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
>> PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
>> EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
>> PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
>> Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
>> 2/06, 6/06
>> PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
>> Casodex added daily 07/06
>> PSA <0.04
>> Non Illegitimi Carborundum
>>
>>
>
>

Hugh Kearnley wrote:
> Added to that - anyone get silly emotional episodes - weeping about the new
> gun for a tank, silly shit like new feed for Chickens and you start
> blubbing?

That's a small reason I rejected ADT.
I.P.

"Hugh Kearnley" <hughkearnley@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:lc2dna342v1i8n7YRVnyuAA@bt.com...
>I have a very old and torn book that I often look at when i'm feeling
>wanting.
> "Eight Great Lives" by the Immortal PLUTARCH. Takes place beside my Holy
> Bible and my History of the English Speaking Peoples, written by another
> of my heroes - Sir Winston Churchill.

Both sound great... no... ALL THREE sound great.


> I'll ask you ALL now - Do YOU get these fucking weird dreams-Nightmares?

I have, of course, had weird dreams, but I'm not on morphine either.

"Hugh Kearnley" <hughkearnley@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:G5mdnaKHPODk6X7YnZ2dnUVZ8sqjnZ2d@bt.com...
> Added to that - anyone get silly emotional episodes - weeping about the
> new gun for a tank, silly shit like new feed for Chickens and you start
> blubbing?
> Or - am I the only fuck getting this.

That's the ADT!!

But, yeah, if it's bigger than a 120mm... I mean, who wouldn't get
emotional?

dave perry wrote:

> My spouse and I spent over $4000 to set one up

We chose a law firm which does little else but trusts, statewide and set
up to be valid i any other states we choose, and charges a reasonable
flat fee of $1,300 for a bundle including the A-B trusts, fiscal and
medical powers of attorney, living will, pour-over will, and several
more such documents. The package includes their transference of major
items (e.g., investments, real estate, motor vehicles) into the trust,
and lifetime free telephone inquiries. And we don't pay for it until we
read the document and are satisfied it conveys our intentions. We were
also unable to find any complaints against the firm.

> my spouse who makes a good salary wants (rightfully) her
> earnings to go to her family.

Whew! I'm lucky mine doesn't feel that way, given that she has
out-earned me by 300-400% for the past 20 years and her inheritance from
her parents' deaths went right into our joint accounts.

> Also, a previous poster said something about when the money runs out
> in a nursing facility that Medicare takes over. I've always heard
> that Medicare never pays for this stuff except in only limited
> amounts.

That was me. My BIL runs nursing homes statewide in Ohio, and has an
extensive family full of really old people; he wallows in this stuff
every day. His wife has been executor of three trusts/wills and counting.

> In California it's Medical that pays which is a joint state/
> fed program and it kicks in only after the patient's assets are given
> away or drained away to nearly zero. Not all facilities accept
> Medical so a person can be "put out into the street" or at least into
> a less favorable facility.

Under Medicare that's a federal offense.

> Finally, I expect to write my own obituary, at least I hope they still
> have obituaries forty years down the road (yeah, right). I'm also
> trying to think of something clever to put on the gravestone -
> something like "Today me, tomorrow you" but my spouse frowns on the
> idea and since she will have the final say

You DO need a lawyer. There's not much you cannot dictate about your
stuff, your disposal, and your tombstone.

I.P.

Hugh Kearnley wrote:

> The ONLY way to [make my project successful] - IMHO - is to involve as many survivors as possible
> in it's writing - from all over the Earth.
> Where you see something that's obviously wrong or suspect - it's YOUR
> responsibility to change it to what YOU know as factually correct

But each of us has our own set of facts, supported by several
peer-reviewed studies, two book authors, 13 major hospitals, four
Internet wankers, Uncle Charlie's experience, and Fagbemi and
Ironjustice . . . and we're still at each others' throats over
discrepancies. So who determines the last word on each paragraph in The
Project . . . the last poster?

I.P.

> > my spouse who makes a good salary wants (rightfully) her
>
> > earnings to go to her family.
>
> Whew! I'm lucky mine doesn't feel that way, given that she has
> out-earned me by 300-400% for the past 20 years and her inheritance from
> her parents' deaths went right into our joint accounts.
>
Lucky guy. Spouse and I have differing views on who is worthy of any
money that might come their way so she will send hers to her family
and I will send mine to my family. Also, I learned some wisdom from
an aunt, who has passed on, something about when you give it away
while alive you can be sure of where it goes. > >

> You DO need a lawyer. There's not much you cannot dictate about your
> stuff, your disposal, and your tombstone.
>
> I.P.
Screw the lawyers even though my youngest daughter is an ADA up in
your neck of the woods. Like I said earlier, I'm going to give most
of it away and put a few bucks into Due on Death accounts with my kids
as beneficiaries and maybe a small trust for the dog. With any luck,
my last pension check will cover the cyanide if needed and the
tombstone - came in with nothing, go out with nothing.
Dave Perry

"I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow> wrote in message
newsvsEh.233$6g5.55@newsfe04.lga...
> ron wrote:
>> On Feb 25, 3:31 pm, "I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddabou...@noway.nohow>
>> wrote...snip...
>>> We just spent a couple of weeks researching living trusts, which
>>> essentially and legally eliminate inheritance and estate taxes
>>
>> Unfortunately, US estate taxes cannot be eliminated. Everyone
>> receives the same unified tax credit, which means for this year and
>> next, the first 2 million dollars of any individual's estate will pass
>> estate tax free, assuming none of the credit has been used in previous
>> gifting. After two mill per person, the estate tax takes a slice.
> > Either a will or a LT will produce the same tax results.
>
> As you know, the LT doubles the two mil exemption by placing the first
> trustholder's assets into an irrevocable trust. Sheltering the
> first-to-die's $2m this way eliminates a buttload of taxes.
>
>> I don't believe that Medicare will be in
>> any position to fund a stay at a decent nursing home
>
> Once into a nursing home, when your money runs out Medicare starts paying,
> and you will get the same care, by law. If an inspector can walk into a
> nursing home and tell by their care which patients are on Medicare vs
> who's paying dearly for the whole ride, that nursing home is in deep
> federal doo-doo. Thus the idea is to go into a nice home on your own
> money, run out soon, and let all that money you paid into Medicare start
> paying off. This is doable by placing most of one's assets, within
> specific limits, in an irrevocable trust.


I've just gotten back from out of town, and have just skimmed parts of this
thread. But I am fairly certain you are incorrect about Medicare. Medicare
will only pay for about 3 months of nursing home care (the exact number of
days escapes me), and that's only when it follows a hospital stay. I
believe you are confusing *Medicare* with *Medicade*, the state-run program
for indiginents. Medicade takes over when a person runs out of money, and
the amount of care varies from state to state, depending upon their Medicade
laws and funds. Though we didnt end up using up my mother's assets before
she died, I did look into this when the possibility of her running out of
money arose.

Claude wrote:
> I am fairly certain you are incorrect about Medicare. Medicare
> will only pay for about 3 months of nursing home care (the exact number of
> days escapes me), and that's only when it follows a hospital stay. I
> believe you are confusing *Medicare* with *Medicade*, the state-run program
> for indiginents. Medicade takes over when a person runs out of money, and
> the amount of care varies from state to state, depending upon their Medicade
> laws and funds. Though we didnt end up using up my mother's assets before
> she died, I did look into this when the possibility of her running out of
> money arose.

Given how many people here say I'm wrong, I'll ping my sources yet
another time. But here are what I understand now:
My wife's parents went into a nursing home to die 2-3 years ago.
They got a very nice one because they had ample cash to pay at first.
Their cash ran out after a few months.
Medicare covered them then, and they cannot, by law (this was in Ohio),
be treated any differently when their status changes.
They were in their middle 80s.
Their three "kids" split an inheritance of WAY into six figures from
their parents' irrevocable trust.

I'll find out whether and where I'm wrong and post an explanation here.

I.P.

"I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow> wrote in message
news:m55Hh.133$sG2.88@newsfe02.lga...
> Claude wrote:
>> I am fairly certain you are incorrect about Medicare. Medicare
>> will only pay for about 3 months of nursing home care (the exact number
>> of days escapes me), and that's only when it follows a hospital stay. I
>> believe you are confusing *Medicare* with *Medicade*, the state-run
>> program for indiginents. Medicade takes over when a person runs out of
>> money, and the amount of care varies from state to state, depending upon
>> their Medicade laws and funds. Though we didnt end up using up my
>> mother's assets before she died, I did look into this when the
>> possibility of her running out of money arose.
>
> Given how many people here say I'm wrong, I'll ping my sources yet another
> time. But here are what I understand now:
> My wife's parents went into a nursing home to die 2-3 years ago.
> They got a very nice one because they had ample cash to pay at first.
> Their cash ran out after a few months.
> Medicare covered them then, and they cannot, by law (this was in Ohio), be
> treated any differently when their status changes.
> They were in their middle 80s.
> Their three "kids" split an inheritance of WAY into six figures from their
> parents' irrevocable trust.
>
> I'll find out whether and where I'm wrong and post an explanation here.
>
> I.P.

The more I think back, the more certain I am about this. I would imagine
your in-laws were eventually declared "impovershed" (sp?) and went onto
Medicaid. Laws regarding Medicaid are changing. It used to be they only
looked back three years to make sure assets were not transferred. Now they
look back 5 years. I don't know the legalities of your in-laws' trust, but
evidently their assets in the trust were no longer considered by the law to
be"theirs" and they were declared impovershed. When my aunt went into a
nursing home, an estate lawyer explained to me several ways to transfer her
money out of her personal control so that she would qualify for Medicaid.
My own personal ethics would not allow me to do this, so she continued
self-pay. She did die before running out of money. States are taking very
hard looks at people with assets going on Medicaid, and I imagine the laws
will be changing to make this harder and harder to do.

I.P.,

I believe you'll find that Claude is correct. At least this has been my
experience from thirty+ years working in the health care administration
field. Except for some very specific, short-term acute episodes requiring
temporary skilled nursing care in a skilled nursing facility (SNF), Medicare
does not cover long term nursing care. Once assets are depleted, Medicaid
covers continuing long term nursing care. This, at least, is how it has
worked here in Texas over the past thirty years. With Medicare being a
federal program, the coverage rules for it do not change from state to
state. Coverage rules under Medicaid or MediCal (California) or any of the
other state programs may vary somewhat. However, the various state Medicaid
programs that also receive federal money are required to follow certain
federal mandates to continue to receive funding.

I'd be interested to learn if you find otherwise in your in-laws' case.
--
JerryW

Please respond to group; email address is not valid

2/11/04 PSA 2.6, Suspicious DRE (age 62)
2/23/04 Biopsy: Gleason 3+4=7, T2a, left lobe
5/18/04 RRP, Path: Gleason 4+3=7, T2c, both lobes
Fully continent by 9/04
PSA <0.1 since



"I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow> wrote in message
news:m55Hh.133$sG2.88@newsfe02.lga...
> Claude wrote:
>> I am fairly certain you are incorrect about Medicare. Medicare
>> will only pay for about 3 months of nursing home care (the exact number
>> of days escapes me), and that's only when it follows a hospital stay. I
>> believe you are confusing *Medicare* with *Medicade*, the state-run
>> program for indiginents. Medicade takes over when a person runs out of
>> money, and the amount of care varies from state to state, depending upon
>> their Medicade laws and funds. Though we didnt end up using up my
>> mother's assets before she died, I did look into this when the
>> possibility of her running out of money arose.
>
> Given how many people here say I'm wrong, I'll ping my sources yet another
> time. But here are what I understand now:
> My wife's parents went into a nursing home to die 2-3 years ago.
> They got a very nice one because they had ample cash to pay at first.
> Their cash ran out after a few months.
> Medicare covered them then, and they cannot, by law (this was in Ohio), be
> treated any differently when their status changes.
> They were in their middle 80s.
> Their three "kids" split an inheritance of WAY into six figures from their
> parents' irrevocable trust.
>
> I'll find out whether and where I'm wrong and post an explanation here.
>
> I.P.

JerryW wrote:
> I.P.,
>
> I believe you'll find that Claude is correct. At least this has been my
> experience from thirty+ years working in the health care administration
> field. Except for some very specific, short-term acute episodes requiring
> temporary skilled nursing care in a skilled nursing facility (SNF), Medicare
> does not cover long term nursing care. Once assets are depleted, Medicaid
> covers continuing long term nursing care. This, at least, is how it has
> worked here in Texas over the past thirty years. With Medicare being a
> federal program, the coverage rules for it do not change from state to
> state. Coverage rules under Medicaid or MediCal (California) or any of the
> other state programs may vary somewhat. However, the various state Medicaid
> programs that also receive federal money are required to follow certain
> federal mandates to continue to receive funding.
>
> I'd be interested to learn if you find otherwise in your in-laws' case.


"impoverished" seems to be a perjorative term.

The question is: do you want your children to have some or your assets
of the nursing home.

The care is the same whether you pay or not.

I, myself, do not want to go to a nursing home. Everytime I visit one
of my clients in a nursing home, I get really depressed. They are so
glad to see me, even though I am only their attorney, court appt at
that. They may or may not remember the visit, but they are glad to see
me anyway. Sometimes I am the only person there who does not work or
reside in the facility.

I have two daughters who swear thay will always wipe the drool off my
chin, still I am concerned.

My plan is to work until I die.

Was it Kenny Rogers, in his song, who said "you only win if you die in
your sleep"?

j.




J.

"cognite tute" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:VegHh.2820$tv6.1271@newssvr19.news.prodigy.ne t...

> "impoverished" seems to be a perjorative term.

Not my term. It seems to be widely used when discussing this issue.


> The question is: do you want your children to have some or your assets of
> the nursing home.
>
> The care is the same whether you pay or not.

Not quite that simple. Some nursing homes will not take Medicaid clients,
or have a limited number of beds for them. I believe Medicaid reimbursement
is a little more than half of what the facility receives from self-payers.
Once in, the basic care is the same, but when the family of the self-payer
complains, the response is a lot more prompt and attentive. Nursing homes
try to keep the self-payers to make up for the losses they incur with
Medicaid people. I would be very surprised if the average staff is not
aware of who are the self-payers and therefore the ones coveted by their
superiors in administration. Does this lead to different care? It
shouldnt. But in some cases it may.

My own personal code of ethics did not allow me to "impoverish" my aunt and
mother so I could get money while other tax payers paid for their care.
With regard to my wife and myself, we have long term care insurance and a
nice portfolio. We should be able to pay for our own nursing home care,
should we need it. I hope my sons can inherit some of our assets, but in
the end, they have to provide for their retirement the same way we did.
This is just my own personal feeling and not a judgement on others who view
the situation differently.

On March 6, JerryW wrote, in pertinent part:

(snip)

> With Medicare being a
> federal program, the coverage rules for it do not change from state to
> state.

(snip)

Small correction: Medicare has different regions and there are some
coverage variations between them.

Frex, When I discovered that the oral bisphosphonate Actonel was not
correcting my ADT-caused osteoporosis, I elected to move on to Zometa,
an injectable.

Zometa (zoledronic acid) is used at 28-day intervals to treat bone
metastases. It is used at 84-day intervals to treat osteoporosis.

I was informed that Medicare would not cover the 84-day treatment in
this region, which is administered out of one of the Dakotas, I
disremember which. Such usage would, however, be covered in California
(I'm in Arizona), which is in a different Medicare region. Just as I was
formulating plans to go to California for the infusions, my region's
position changed and coverage was granted.

If you want to make medical people groan and roll their eyes, mention
Medicare.

Regards,

Steve J, for whom the Zometa is succeeding.

"The difference between food and beer is that beer has some food value,
while food has no beer value"
-- Linda the waitress

cognite tute wrote:

> My plan is to work until I die.

Man, I wish *I* could imagine, let alone find, a job that great! That
would simplify my life *so* much.

> Was it Kenny Rogers, in his song, who said "you only win if you die in
> your sleep"?

An engineer friend with serious Type I diabetes was a mountain climbing
FREAK. The mantra hanging on his office wall was a short poem ending in
something like "kill me on a mountain". I'm guessing he ultimately died
on one.

I.P.

Claude wrote:

> My own personal code of ethics did not allow me to "impoverish" my aunt and
> mother so I could get money while other tax payers paid for their care.
> With regard to my wife and myself, we have long term care insurance and a
> nice portfolio. We should be able to pay for our own nursing home care,
> should we need it. I hope my sons can inherit some of our assets, but in
> the end, they have to provide for their retirement the same way we did.
> This is just my own personal feeling and not a judgement on others who view
> the situation differently.

I hear that, but how dos it reconcile with half of the U.S. -- and a
large majority in many other nations -- whose *goal* is to benefit from
(and increase) the heavy taxation on achievers?

And consider stretched IRAs, which are deliberately set up by IRS codes
to pay huge sums (into 7 figures if ya do it right) to kids and
grandkids who inherit them intact with their untaxed compound interest?

Like you, I don't resent those who use existing laws as intended. Even
the IRS supports our right to minimize our taxes within the law.

I.P.

"I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow> wrote in message
news:VmlHh.22$4v5.7@newsfe04.lga...
> Claude wrote:
>
>> My own personal code of ethics did not allow me to "impoverish" my aunt
>> and mother so I could get money while other tax payers paid for their
>> care. With regard to my wife and myself, we have long term care insurance
>> and a nice portfolio. We should be able to pay for our own nursing home
>> care, should we need it. I hope my sons can inherit some of our assets,
>> but in the end, they have to provide for their retirement the same way we
>> did. This is just my own personal feeling and not a judgement on others
>> who view the situation differently.
>
> I hear that, but how dos it reconcile with half of the U.S. -- and a large
> majority in many other nations -- whose *goal* is to benefit from (and
> increase) the heavy taxation on achievers?

IP, you know I said I wouldnt get into these kind of discussions with you
anymore. I just stated the position that I feel comfortable with, not
judging others who feel comfortable with other positions. And there I will
leave it.

"Steve Jordan" <mycroftscj1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:71iHh.3915$S%2.928@newsfe06.phx...
> (snip)
>
> Small correction: Medicare has different regions and there are some
> coverage variations between them.
> <snip>

Steve, you are correct. The federal Medicare program is administered by
several different regional intermediaries. While the basic federal program
is the same overall, the intermediaries do have some latitude in
interpreting and administering the regulations. This can and often does
include coverage issues of individual drugs, etc. It does not, as far as I
know, extend to regional differences on whether or not to cover long term
nursing home care.

--
JerryW (groaning and rolling eyes)

Please respond to group; email address is not valid

2/11/04 PSA 2.6, Suspicious DRE (a