Neljanski

Hi,
I'm new on this forum.
My father was diagnosed with prostate cancer last year and was operated
on in June 2005.
Radiotherapy followed in January 2006.
Last week after further tests (scintigraphy & X-rays) the doctor said
that there was a metastasis in his lower vertebrae (1 cm).

I have two questions :
1 - As the doctor also mentioned the phrase "generalized cancer" when he
raed the tests results to us, who could explain to me what this means
axactly ? Is this a generic term for any secondary cancer (metastasis)
or does the world "generalised" more specifically correspond to a more
advanced state of cancer ?
2 - Has anyone ever heard of professor Beljanski ? Who could
(objectively, please) tell me more about his discoveries and about the
success rate of his (experimental) treatments ?

Many thanks for your help.

Regards,
Thierry

Sorry for misspelling "Beljanski" in the header...

T Lariviere > a écrit :
> Hi,
> I'm new on this forum.
> My father was diagnosed with prostate cancer last year and was operated
> on in June 2005.
> Radiotherapy followed in January 2006.
> Last week after further tests (scintigraphy & X-rays) the doctor said
> that there was a metastasis in his lower vertebrae (1 cm).
>
> I have two questions :
> 1 - As the doctor also mentioned the phrase "generalized cancer" when he
> raed the tests results to us, who could explain to me what this means
> axactly ? Is this a generic term for any secondary cancer (metastasis)
> or does the world "generalised" more specifically correspond to a more
> advanced state of cancer ?
> 2 - Has anyone ever heard of professor Beljanski ? Who could
> (objectively, please) tell me more about his discoveries and about the
> success rate of his (experimental) treatments ?
>
> Many thanks for your help.
>
> Regards,
> Thierry

Thierry,

I am sorry to hear that your father's primary treatment has
failed.

About "generalized cancer", I surmise that only means that the
cancer has metastasized to many places in the body. However
if you think it might mean something else, you should call the
doctor's office and ask. He may have an assistant who can answer
or can get the answer for you very quickly.

Usually, when prostate cancer metastasizes, it reaches many
different places. It may form large colonies at a few places such
as in the lower vertebrae. These places can sometimes be
treated with radiation to reduce tumor growth and pain. However
it is my understanding that treating those places will never "cure"
the cancer because it is in many other places too.

Hormone therapy is the best available treatment to halt the
progress of metastasis. It may work for months, or for many
years, depending on how hormone sensitive the cancer is.
In exceptional cases, it may work for a very long time. Francois
Mitterand, is said to have lived 15 years on hormone therapy.

I had not heard of Mirko Beljanski before but just did some
reading about him on the web. I thought that much that I read
about him was alarming.

To begin with, he claimed to have made fundamental discoveries
about the nature of cancer in the 1950's. There are many
thousands of cancer researchers around the world. Why
haven't his discoveries been confirmed by now and come to
dominate cancer research? The silence of the scientific
community makes me think that the scientific community is
not convinced by his research.

Secondly, the products that he claims to have discovered as
anti-cancer agents are only sold though one company, and at
very high prices. If these products work, why have they not
been picked up by other companies and sold? Are there
clinical trials conducted by reputable researchers? Trials by
Beljanski don't count.

It is possible that Beljanski discovered something important
that nobody else knows. Clearly, he was a qualified scientist.
But I think it is more likely that he is a charlatan who made
money by offering false hope to very sick people and their
families.

There are diets and supplements that have shown some
possible benefit for cancer patients. Low fat diets, anti-oxidants
(including lycopene from tomato juice and the extract from
pomegranate juice), and some other things. The evidence
for these supplements is slim but they may help and will not
hurt. But they will not cure cancer. At best they may help
to slow down its progress.

Bon chance a votre pere.

Alan

Alan Meyer a écrit :
> Thierry,
>
> I am sorry to hear that your father's primary treatment has
> failed.
>
> About "generalized cancer", I surmise that only means that the
> cancer has metastasized to many places in the body. However
> if you think it might mean something else, you should call the
> doctor's office and ask. He may have an assistant who can answer
> or can get the answer for you very quickly.
>
> Usually, when prostate cancer metastasizes, it reaches many
> different places. It may form large colonies at a few places such
> as in the lower vertebrae. These places can sometimes be
> treated with radiation to reduce tumor growth and pain. However
> it is my understanding that treating those places will never "cure"
> the cancer because it is in many other places too.
>
> Hormone therapy is the best available treatment to halt the
> progress of metastasis. It may work for months, or for many
> years, depending on how hormone sensitive the cancer is.
> In exceptional cases, it may work for a very long time. Francois
> Mitterand, is said to have lived 15 years on hormone therapy.
>
> I had not heard of Mirko Beljanski before but just did some
> reading about him on the web. I thought that much that I read
> about him was alarming.
>
> To begin with, he claimed to have made fundamental discoveries
> about the nature of cancer in the 1950's. There are many
> thousands of cancer researchers around the world. Why
> haven't his discoveries been confirmed by now and come to
> dominate cancer research? The silence of the scientific
> community makes me think that the scientific community is
> not convinced by his research.
>
> Secondly, the products that he claims to have discovered as
> anti-cancer agents are only sold though one company, and at
> very high prices. If these products work, why have they not
> been picked up by other companies and sold? Are there
> clinical trials conducted by reputable researchers? Trials by
> Beljanski don't count.
>
> It is possible that Beljanski discovered something important
> that nobody else knows. Clearly, he was a qualified scientist.
> But I think it is more likely that he is a charlatan who made
> money by offering false hope to very sick people and their
> families.
>
> There are diets and supplements that have shown some
> possible benefit for cancer patients. Low fat diets, anti-oxidants
> (including lycopene from tomato juice and the extract from
> pomegranate juice), and some other things. The evidence
> for these supplements is slim but they may help and will not
> hurt. But they will not cure cancer. At best they may help
> to slow down its progress.
>
> Bon chance a votre pere.
>
> Alan
>
>
Hi Alan,
Thanks very much for your quick and informative reply.
As you suggest, I'll have to ask the doctor again about the meaning of
"generalized" - and this time not in my father's presence.
You did mention something very relevant in your message : supposing
Beljanski made a decisive breakthrough in cancer research then why is he
not popular worldwide ? Search for "Beljanski" entries in abc.com or
cnn.com or bbc.co.uk gave no result. He seems to be unknown among the
anglosaxon press - only in the French-speaking community. I cannot check
with other countries as my knowledge in foreign languages is rather limited.
Yet I also read that Mitterrand resorted to Beljanski's "therapy" in
addition to regular hormones. He was only given a few months' life
expectancy when he was elected in 1981 and lived till 1995.

I don't want to give myself and my family false hope though. I'm afraid
the internet is an inexhaustible source of information of all sorts, a
real maze where it's easy to get misled.
My father's 70 and is starting his hormone therapy in 3 days. What
bothers me though is that the doctor did not say how my father would be
"if the treatment fails in 2 or 3 years" - in which case he'd resort to
chemiotherapy.

Thanks for your honest view on the matter and for your good wishes too,
Alan.

Thierry

"T Lariviere" <""t-l-a-r-i-v-i-e-r-e\"@,nordnet.,f,r"> wrote in message
news:4544fd61$0$5087
snip

> You did mention something very relevant in your message : supposing
> Beljanski made a decisive breakthrough in cancer research then why is he
> not popular worldwide ? Search for "Beljanski" entries in abc.com or
> cnn.com or bbc.co.uk gave no result. He seems to be unknown among the
> anglosaxon press - only in the French-speaking community. I cannot check
> with other countries as my knowledge in foreign languages is rather
> limited.
> Yet I also read that Mitterrand resorted to Beljanski's "therapy" in
> addition to regular hormones. He was only given a few months' life
> expectancy when he was elected in 1981 and lived till 1995.
>
> I don't want to give myself and my family false hope though. I'm afraid
> the internet is an inexhaustible source of information of all sorts, a
> real maze where it's easy to get misled.

http://www.natural-source.com/engl/a...ki_legacy.html has some info on
Mirko Beljanski Ph.D. (not M.D.) and sells several products that appear to
contain fairly commonly used supplements, at uncommonly high prices.
Alarmingly, one seems to be derived from e coli.
Run, do not walk, to conventional treatment, perhaps utilizing widely
adopted supplements as a low-risk add-on to what your father's physician
prescribes if that feels comfortable to him.

Alex

"T Lariviere" <""t-l-a-r-i-v-i-e-r-e\"@,nordnet.,f,r"> wrote in message
news:4544b9f1$0$25917$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...

> 1 - As the doctor also mentioned the phrase "generalized cancer" when he
> raed the tests results to us, who could explain to me what this means
> axactly ? Is this a generic term for any secondary cancer (metastasis) or
> does the world "generalised" more specifically correspond to a more
> advanced state of cancer ?

Another, more appropriate, description is "systemic cancer." In other
words, it was not confined to the prostate when they cut it out and when
they radiated the area. Instead, it had already escaped the prostate and,
now, tumors are cropping up in his body.



--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06, 6/06
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

"T Lariviere" <""t-l-a-r-i-v-i-e-r-e\"@,nordnet.,f,r"> wrote in message
news:4544fd61$0$5087$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...

> ... I cannot check with other countries as my knowledge in foreign languages is rather
> limited.

However your English is excellent. I wish I could speak French as
well.

> Yet I also read that Mitterrand resorted to Beljanski's "therapy" in addition to regular
> hormones. He was only given a few months' life expectancy when he was elected in 1981
> and lived till 1995.

One of the characteristics of fraudulent doctors is that they
cite cases where people took their medicine and did well.
But they never tell you how many took their medicine and died,
perhaps very quickly and in great pain.

Out of 1000 men with advanced prostate cancer, I suspect that a
few will live 15 years with no treatment at all. Every doctor that
treated them, and every farmer that grew food they ate might
claim credit for their success. But unless they can prove that
they regularly make a significant difference in people's lives,
their claims are worthless.

We know that Mitterand had conventional hormone therapy.
There is conclusive, scientific evidence that hormone therapy
will block the growth of prostate cancer for some period of time,
sometimes, in lucky men (if anyone who has prostate cancer
can be called lucky), it will block the growth of the cancer for
many years.

If Mitterand took Beljanski's drugs also, that doesn't prove that
Beljanski helped him at all - even a little bit. Mitterand may have
taken a hot shower every day, worn a suit and tie, and drunk a
glass of red wine. Any one of those might possibly have arrested
his cancer - but almost certainly did not. Unless there is a clinical
trial showing that hot showers, suits and ties, red wine, or
Beljanski's drugs are proven to help prostate cancer patients,
then there is very little scientific basis for believing in their efficacy.

There are clinical trials showing the efficacy of hormone therapy.

> I don't want to give myself and my family false hope though. I'm afraid the internet is
> an inexhaustible source of information of all sorts, a real maze where it's easy to get
> misled.
> My father's 70 and is starting his hormone therapy in 3 days. What bothers me though is
> that the doctor did not say how my father would be "if the treatment fails in 2 or 3
> years" - in which case he'd resort to chemiotherapy.

The current chemotherapy drug approved in the U.S. for prostate
cancer is docetaxel. Clinical trials have shown that it adds a few
months to the average patient's life and may also ease his suffering
somewhat. However some men are more sensitive to it than
others and may benefit for a longer time.

After that, the only conventional treatment is for pain relief.

There are clinical trials of other therapies, including a number of
new drugs. If and when hormone therapy fails, your father might
consider entering a clinical trial. The chance of a new investigational
drug helping him is not large, and the chance of it curing his cancer
is very, very small. But you never know. The new drugs have
shown benefit in animal testing and may be of help. They may be
of more benefit than doing nothing.

If your father is currently being treated by a urological surgeon or
a radiation oncologist, I recommend that he ask for a consultation
with a medical oncologist who specializes in hormone therapy.

There are different hormone therapy drugs that act in different ways.
Some block production of testosterone and others block the
uptake of testosterone by prostate cancer cells. These may
be used individually, serially, or in combination.

A specialist on these therapies may be able to provide more
accurate treatment than a urologist or radiologist.

Eventually, if and when the treatment fails, he should find a
doctor that specializes in treating cancer pain and suffering.
Death by cancer can be very painful and debilitating, but a good
doctor can help a great deal to alleviate suffering and make
life bearable right up to the end.

Alan

T Lariviere > wrote:
> My father's 70 and is starting his hormone therapy in 3 days.

I hope your father's doctor has given him a written list of the many
possible side effects of hormone therapy, so he can recognize and treat
any that occur. MANY HT patients are not warned of them, leading to
unnecessary fear, inaction, and/or long-term harm that can often be
reduced or avoided.

I.P.

T Lariviere > wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm new on this forum.
> My father was diagnosed with prostate cancer last year and was operated
> on in June 2005.
> Radiotherapy followed in January 2006.
> Last week after further tests (scintigraphy & X-rays) the doctor said
> that there was a metastasis in his lower vertebrae (1 cm).
>
> I have two questions :
> 1 - As the doctor also mentioned the phrase "generalized cancer" when he
> raed the tests results to us, who could explain to me what this means
> axactly ? Is this a generic term for any secondary cancer (metastasis)
> or does the world "generalised" more specifically correspond to a more
> advanced state of cancer ?
> 2 - Has anyone ever heard of professor Beljanski ? Who could
> (objectively, please) tell me more about his discoveries and about the
> success rate of his (experimental) treatments ?
>
> Many thanks for your help.
>
> Regards,
> Thierry
Hi guys,

Sorry for not writing sooner. October's been so busy.
I'd like to thank you all for your many quick answers as well as your
help and support. I have a clearer view of what my father is going
through and of what he is likely or unlikely to meet in the next months
(hopefully years).
I also wanted to add that one really doesn't know what cancer is until
they or one of their close friends or relatives get hit by this terrible
thing. I remember how uncomfortable I felt in the past when people told
me they had cancer : I didn't know what to say and I didn't even dare to
ask how they felt when I met them again several weeks later (I thought
I'd sound stupid, as if I were saying : "Hi ! How's your cancer since I
saw you last month ? Do you still have it ?"). I believe I've come to
learn "the hard way" how to communicate with cancer patient.

Kind regards to you all and good luck to those of you who are concerned
by prostate cancer.

Thierry

T Lariviere wrote:

> I don't want to give myself and my family false hope though. I'm afraid
> the internet is an inexhaustible source of information of all sorts, a
> real maze where it's easy to get misled.

Information overrload. I had none, zero from 4 urologists I visited
between 2001 and Spring 2006. The last one said, "I don't know.
Look on the internet." That was my last appointment with the SOB.

I did look, found this group, found several local support groups, and
have been smothered in information since. <g>


> My father's 70 and is starting his hormone therapy in 3 days. What
> bothers me though is that the doctor did not say how my father would
> be "if the treatment fails in 2 or 3 years" - in which case he'd resort to
> chemiotherapy.

My first PSA (2001) was 10, second opinion (2002) was 11.
Later dropped to 4, then 5, and suddenly 12 this Spring.
But in September it was down to 11. New oncologist says
it's "stable" and we're taking a "wait and see" course of action.

I'm 70 this month. After reading all of the SE's that the urologists
never mentioned (only lose of libedo and ED - nothing about using a
catheter or incontinence and needing pads or diapers), I'm resigned
to "no action." I would have been "under the beam" in January 2003
if the cancer center at Grossmont Hospital hadn't been so inept in
scheduling appointments. They bungled things so bad I was afraid
to return for a new appointment.

I don't accept that type of treatment at a grocery store or
restaurant,
and I won't accept it at a medical institution.

And the bastards billed Medicare and Tricare-for-Life for three
appointments that I never had.

NICK wrote:
> we're taking a "wait and see" course of action.
> I'm 70 this month.

That makes sense to me, assuming you expect to die by 80 for other
reasons, have a Gleason 6 cancer, and/or are not medically fit for
surgery or radiation. Otherwise, I'd keep doing my research and verify
WW independently of the doctors. They may be right, but I wouldn't bet
my life on it.

> After reading all of the SE's that the urologists never mentioned

Reinforcement for my previous paragraph.

> And the bastards billed Medicare and Tricare-for-Life for three
> appointments that I never had.

I notify my insurers (TriCare and Mediplus for medical, State Farm for
everything else) when I see abuse like that. From that point it's their
problem, but I get a kick out of blowing the whistle on wrong-doers.

I.P.

I.P. Freely wrote:

> That makes sense to me, assuming you expect to die by 80 for other
> reasons, have a Gleason 6 cancer, and/or are not medically fit for
> surgery or radiation.

I was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis in 1976, had a hip
replacement in 2000, and probably due for the opposite hip in
a couple years.

Bone density is already -2, so I tremble whenever I read the SE's
of Lupron and other treatments. Add OA and RA and I don't feel
fit for any PCa treatment(s).

NICK wrote:
> I.P. Freely wrote:
>
>> That makes sense to me, assuming you expect to die by 80 for other
>> reasons, have a Gleason 6 cancer, and/or are not medically fit for
>> surgery or radiation.
>
> I was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis in 1976, had a hip
> replacement in 2000, and probably due for the opposite hip in
> a couple years.
>
> Bone density is already -2, so I tremble whenever I read the SE's
> of Lupron and other treatments. Add OA and RA and I don't feel
> fit for any PCa treatment(s).
>
Ouch! I'd have to agree those absolutely contraindicate ADT any time
soon, and make WW far preferable to RP or RT. I'm glad I'm not in your
shoes yet, but then I may be if and when I reach your present age in
seven years.

A friend's docs told him years ago they didn't see how he could walk,
given that his hip joints were virtually non-existent, so he retired
early two years ago to get what he still could out of his obsessions,
which include skiing, snowboarding, windsurfing, mountain biking, weight
lifting, and backpacking. He can now barely walk from house to car, and
gets new hips this month . . . if possible. He's 53, and other than the
fact that his upper body is connected to his lower body primarily by
muscle and tendons, he's the fittest person I know of ANY age. His wife
had to have new hips in her 30s.

I HOPE that makes you feel less unlucky. We're all pulling for you.

I.P.