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Old 05-10-2007, 04:14 AM
Bob C.
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Default new numbers for Steve K.

Hi Steve, got some new numbers for you. Current psa is 1.1. After a
long discussion with my doctor, I am not going back on Lupron at this
time as was originally decided when I went hormone refractory back 6+
months ago. At that time we agreed that my "vacation" from Lupron would
end now and I'd go back on it, plus Casodex. We will check the psa again
in 3 months and continue to stay off the Lupron if the doubling time has
not increased.

Sometimes I wonder if there are any fully wrong decisions for those with
advanced pca, that with current technology the die is cast and the date
of our demise is roughly set for many of us no matter what we do.
Surgery or radiation, with numerous variations for each, Lupron early or
late, continuous or intermittent, Casodex as soon as you go refractory
or later, then taxotere plus _________(fill in the blank) for the last
battles.

It is my understanding that Lupron, for advanced pca, probably does not
do much at all regarding longevity, though it may still hold the
cancer/psa in check for varying lengths of time, 3 years being a
ballpark average. Once a person has gone hormone refractory, Casodex
is added and it seems to have greatly variable lengths of time where it
also holds the cancer/psa in check. Maybe for many years, or maybe only
briefly. Then taxotere combined with many other drugs may be tried once
the Casodex fails and apparently it works for a few months or so.

It seems to me that as long as there is the tiniest chance of a cure, a
guy makes decisions with that in mind and thus has many many hard
decisions ahead of him if he does not get his cure fast.

If I have gone off in left field on any of this, I am sure that I.P. or
one of the others will just blame it on my three years on Lupron and set
me straight.



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  #2  
Old 05-10-2007, 04:14 AM
Burney Huff
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Default Re: new numbers for Steve K.

I don't think you are out in left field at all, Bob. I have the same
thoughts you put into writing. I'm sure many others in this group do,
too. I think we just try to put it out of mind as much as possible
because there are too many unknowns to try to evaluate.

I'm on Casodex, alone, now. I'm just trying to enjoy my life and keep
it going as long as possible. Waiting for a silver bullet to come
around the corner sounds nice, and I'l be happy it it really does;
but, I'm not counting on it. How long will the Casodex keep the
cancer at bay and, hopefully, extend my life? That's anybody's guess.
Taxotere? Fortunately I haven't had to consider that yet. From what
little I've read, I gather that it helps about 39% of PCA patients who
take it. That may sound like a fair percentage (fair, at best, in my
opinion) but it has pretty rough side effects for 100% of patients who
take it. And, for what unknown potential benefit? Who knows.

No, you're not out in left field at all, unless I'm out there with you
and just don't know it.

We all do the best we can at the time. As long as I'm comfortable
with my decisions, that's fine by me. I think most of us are in the
same boat. What a way to enjoy a day on the water, huh? :-)

Take care,
Burney

On Wed, 09 May 2007 20:54:11 -0500, "Bob C." <BC@Bob.org> wrote:

>Hi Steve, got some new numbers for you. Current psa is 1.1. After a
>long discussion with my doctor, I am not going back on Lupron at this
>time as was originally decided when I went hormone refractory back 6+
>months ago. At that time we agreed that my "vacation" from Lupron would
>end now and I'd go back on it, plus Casodex. We will check the psa again
>in 3 months and continue to stay off the Lupron if the doubling time has
>not increased.
>
>Sometimes I wonder if there are any fully wrong decisions for those with
>advanced pca, that with current technology the die is cast and the date
>of our demise is roughly set for many of us no matter what we do.
>Surgery or radiation, with numerous variations for each, Lupron early or
>late, continuous or intermittent, Casodex as soon as you go refractory
>or later, then taxotere plus _________(fill in the blank) for the last
>battles.
>
>It is my understanding that Lupron, for advanced pca, probably does not
> do much at all regarding longevity, though it may still hold the
>cancer/psa in check for varying lengths of time, 3 years being a
>ballpark average. Once a person has gone hormone refractory, Casodex
>is added and it seems to have greatly variable lengths of time where it
>also holds the cancer/psa in check. Maybe for many years, or maybe only
>briefly. Then taxotere combined with many other drugs may be tried once
>the Casodex fails and apparently it works for a few months or so.
>
>It seems to me that as long as there is the tiniest chance of a cure, a
>guy makes decisions with that in mind and thus has many many hard
>decisions ahead of him if he does not get his cure fast.
>
>If I have gone off in left field on any of this, I am sure that I.P. or
>one of the others will just blame it on my three years on Lupron and set
>me straight.
>
>

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  #3  
Old 05-10-2007, 02:08 PM
Steve Kramer
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Default Re: new numbers for Steve K.

"Bob C." <BC@Bob.org> wrote in message
news:f1tu3g01lvt@enews1.newsguy.com...

> Hi Steve, got some new numbers for you. Current psa is 1.1. After a long
> discussion with my doctor, I am not going back on Lupron at this time


Sorry about the PSA jump -- quadrupled in a 8 months -- damn!

> Sometimes I wonder if there are any fully wrong decisions for those with
> advanced pca,


Probably the only fully wrong decision is "no treatment ever again" and
that's not all that wrong if one decides he is more ready for death than
SEs, costs, or life itself.

> It seems to me that as long as there is the tiniest chance of a cure, a
> guy makes decisions with that in mind and thus has many many hard
> decisions ahead of him if he does not get his cure fast.


I think the chance of a cure is an added dimension to our decision tree that
was never realistically available before. There has been a tremendous
improvement in chemo in the last several years. Even ADT has gotten better
since my dad's estrogen treatments. But, with all that, you and I will
likely miss the cure. If my Casodex fails soon, I don't have a realistic
hope that I will make it to 2015. Even if Casodex makes a good run, I
probably need another significant advancement just to get me to 2015. And
the cure could be years later than that.

In short, I understand your decision. It takes a strong man and strong mind
to make such decisions.

--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04, <0.05
Non Illegitimi Carborundum


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