OT: Socialized Mental Health

I think you all know my views on nationalized health care, but my wife is a
facilitator for NAMI and there is currently a discussion within their ranks
regarding nationalized mental health care. She asked of me a favor -- to
check with my international friends and acquaintances to see how it works in
other countries.

If you are from a country that has nationalized mental health care, please
let me (her) know how it works.

--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04, <0.05, <0.04, <0.04, <0.1 2/12/08
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

Answered privately, for obvious reasons.

"Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:481b6c03$0$12931$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>I think you all know my views on nationalized health care, but my wife
>is a facilitator for NAMI and there is currently a discussion within
>their ranks regarding nationalized mental health care. She asked of me
>a favor -- to check with my international friends and acquaintances to
>see how it works in other countries.
>
> If you are from a country that has nationalized mental health care,
> please let me (her) know how it works.
>
> --
> PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
> Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
> RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
> PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
> EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
> PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years
> Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
> PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years
> Casodex added daily 07/06
> PSA <0.04, <0.05, <0.04, <0.04, <0.1 2/12/08
> Non Illegitimi Carborundum
>

On May 3, Heather replied to Steve K's inquiry:

> Answered privately, for obvious reasons.

Huh?

Um, er, Heather m'love, why post that?

Regards,

Steve J

"Steve Jordan" <mycroftscj1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ht6Tj.179825$nr1.22143@newsfe13.phx...
> On May 3, Heather replied to Steve K's inquiry:
>
>> Answered privately, for obvious reasons.
>
> Huh?
>
> Um, er, Heather m'love, why post that?
>
Oops, didn't mean it to come across that way, but just didn't want to
get into a comparison of healthcare in our 2 countries and the
inevitable rant from you know who.

Sorry, old sock......Heather

Heather wrote:
> didn't want to
> get into a comparison of healthcare in our 2 countries and the
> inevitable rant from you know who.

I saw nothing political in Kramer's question, and I'm sure he knows of
the biases likely in private answers, so no worries from this corner.

I.P.

Steve Kramer wrote:
> I think you all know my views on nationalized health care, but my wife is a
> facilitator for NAMI and there is currently a discussion within their ranks
> regarding nationalized mental health care. She asked of me a favor -- to
> check with my international friends and acquaintances to see how it works in
> other countries.
>
> If you are from a country that has nationalized mental health care, please
> let me (her) know how it works.
>

I don't know much about the subject, but there was a recent Frontline
program about a reporter who visited several advanced countries to study
their medical systems and how medical care is paid for. All these
countries had universal medical insurance, provided by a different
mechanisms. Only one, Great Britain had socialized medicine.

The other countries were Japan, Germany, Switzerland, and Taiwan. In
each country there was universal, essentially mandatory, coverage. They
differed in some details, and each country's system had strengths and
weaknesses, which depended on the country's culture as well as how the
system was organized. But in all these countries, the people were well
satisfied with their systems.

Note that all these countries, basically have free market economies, and
some are even more aggressively capitalists than we are, but they have
all decided that medical care cannot be handled by a pure market system.

The program only mentioned health care in passing, but I suspect it was
covered in each of the countries listed.

If your wife goes to the PBS website and looks up Frontline, she can
probably find out more. Also, the reporter has written a book which
must have a lot more information.

Leonard Evens wrote:
> Steve Kramer wrote:
>> I think you all know my views on nationalized health care, but my wife
>> is a facilitator for NAMI and there is currently a discussion within
>> their ranks regarding nationalized mental health care. She asked of
>> me a favor -- to check with my international friends and acquaintances
>> to see how it works in other countries.
>>
>> If you are from a country that has nationalized mental health care,
>> please let me (her) know how it works.
>>
>
> I don't know much about the subject, but there was a recent Frontline
> program about a reporter who visited several advanced countries to study
> their medical systems and how medical care is paid for. All these
> countries had universal medical insurance, provided by a different
> mechanisms. Only one, Great Britain had socialized medicine.
>
> The other countries were Japan, Germany, Switzerland, and Taiwan. In
> each country there was universal, essentially mandatory, coverage. They
> differed in some details, and each country's system had strengths and
> weaknesses, which depended on the country's culture as well as how the
> system was organized. But in all these countries, the people were well
> satisfied with their systems.
>
> Note that all these countries, basically have free market economies, and
> some are even more aggressively capitalists than we are, but they have
> all decided that medical care cannot be handled by a pure market system.
>
> The program only mentioned health care in passing, but I suspect it was
> covered in each of the countries listed.

That should have read "The program only mentioned mental health care in
passing". Of course the entire program was about health care.

>
> If your wife goes to the PBS website and looks up Frontline, she can
> probably find out more. Also, the reporter has written a book which
> must have a lot more information.

Thanks for reposting, Leonard. For some reason, I didn't get the original.

"Leonard Evens" <len@math.northwestern.edu> wrote in message
news:FtOdnXrZL4yD0oPVnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Leonard Evens wrote:
>> Steve Kramer wrote:
>>> I think you all know my views on nationalized health care, but my wife
>>> is a facilitator for NAMI and there is currently a discussion within
>>> their ranks regarding nationalized mental health care. She asked of me
>>> a favor -- to check with my international friends and acquaintances to
>>> see how it works in other countries.
>>>
>>> If you are from a country that has nationalized mental health care,
>>> please let me (her) know how it works.
>>>
>>
>> I don't know much about the subject, but there was a recent Frontline
>> program about a reporter who visited several advanced countries to study
>> their medical systems and how medical care is paid for. All these
>> countries had universal medical insurance, provided by a different
>> mechanisms. Only one, Great Britain had socialized medicine.
>>
>> The other countries were Japan, Germany, Switzerland, and Taiwan. In each
>> country there was universal, essentially mandatory, coverage. They
>> differed in some details, and each country's system had strengths and
>> weaknesses, which depended on the country's culture as well as how the
>> system was organized. But in all these countries, the people were well
>> satisfied with their systems.
>>
>> Note that all these countries, basically have free market economies, and
>> some are even more aggressively capitalists than we are, but they have
>> all decided that medical care cannot be handled by a pure market system.
>>
>> The program only mentioned health care in passing, but I suspect it was
>> covered in each of the countries listed.
>
> That should have read "The program only mentioned mental health care in
> passing". Of course the entire program was about health care.
>
>>
>> If your wife goes to the PBS website and looks up Frontline, she can
>> probably find out more. Also, the reporter has written a book which must
>> have a lot more information.

Steve.....perhaps you should check with your ISP. Perhaps some of your
news groups are being trifled with. I can get you just fine with
Motzarella, but not at all with *aioe.org*. I was blaming them, but for
you not to get Len's post makes me wonder. Is Road Runner blocking
certain news servers? Or certain names?

Cheers....Heather

"Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:481ee6c1$0$3376$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Thanks for reposting, Leonard. For some reason, I didn't get the
> original.
>
> "Leonard Evens" <len@math.northwestern.edu> wrote in message
> news:FtOdnXrZL4yD0oPVnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> Leonard Evens wrote:
>>> Steve Kramer wrote:
>>>> I think you all know my views on nationalized health care, but my
>>>> wife is a facilitator for NAMI and there is currently a discussion
>>>> within their ranks regarding nationalized mental health care. She
>>>> asked of me a favor -- to check with my international friends and
>>>> acquaintances to see how it works in other countries.
>>>>
>>>> If you are from a country that has nationalized mental health care,
>>>> please let me (her) know how it works.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know much about the subject, but there was a recent
>>> Frontline program about a reporter who visited several advanced
>>> countries to study their medical systems and how medical care is
>>> paid for. All these countries had universal medical insurance,
>>> provided by a different mechanisms. Only one, Great Britain had
>>> socialized medicine.
>>>
>>> The other countries were Japan, Germany, Switzerland, and Taiwan. In
>>> each country there was universal, essentially mandatory, coverage.
>>> They differed in some details, and each country's system had
>>> strengths and weaknesses, which depended on the country's culture as
>>> well as how the system was organized. But in all these countries,
>>> the people were well satisfied with their systems.
>>>
>>> Note that all these countries, basically have free market economies,
>>> and some are even more aggressively capitalists than we are, but
>>> they have all decided that medical care cannot be handled by a pure
>>> market system.
>>>
>>> The program only mentioned health care in passing, but I suspect it
>>> was covered in each of the countries listed.
>>
>> That should have read "The program only mentioned mental health care
>> in passing". Of course the entire program was about health care.
>>
>>>
>>> If your wife goes to the PBS website and looks up Frontline, she can
>>> probably find out more. Also, the reporter has written a book which
>>> must have a lot more information.
>
>

"Is Road Runner blocking certain news servers? Or certain names?"

It did make sense to me when I typed it, but it definitely doesn't now!!
Sigh.

"Heather" <no.one@home.invalid> wrote in message
news:fvnco9$quo$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Steve.....perhaps you should check with your ISP. Perhaps some of
> your news groups are being trifled with. I can get you just fine with
> Motzarella, but not at all with *aioe.org*. I was blaming them, but
> for you not to get Len's post makes me wonder. Is Road Runner
> blocking certain news servers? Or certain names?
>
> Cheers....Heather
>

Heather wrote:
> Steve.....perhaps you should check with your ISP. Perhaps some of your
> news groups are being trifled with. I can get you just fine with
> Motzarella, but not at all with *aioe.org*. I was blaming them, but for
> you not to get Len's post makes me wonder. Is Road Runner blocking
> certain news servers? Or certain names?

Many ISPs -- a majority of my sampling -- simply do not receive or relay
all the posts. MOST of the several I tried "showed" me less than 30% of
the posts available on any given forum, and were surprised (and
unconcerned) that that bothered me.

I.P.

On May 2, 3:31 pm, "Steve Kramer" <skra...@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
> I think you all know my views on nationalized health care, but my wife is a
> facilitator for NAMI and there is currently a discussion within their ranks
> regarding nationalized mental health care. She asked of me a favor -- to
> check with my international friends and acquaintances to see how it works in
> other countries.
>
> If you are from a country that has nationalized mental health care, please
> let me (her) know how it works.
>
> --
> PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
> Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
> RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
> PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
> EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
> PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years
> Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
> PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years
> Casodex added daily 07/06
> PSA <0.04, <0.05, <0.04, <0.04, <0.1 2/12/08
> Non Illegitimi Carborundum

Steve, I'll be glad to give you my experiences with regular medicare
in 2 provinces in Canada - as mental health falls under the same
rules. The differences between provinces can be substantial as we have
10 egos that try to be different.

The good news is that everyone has access to care, but we do have to
wait in line unless identified by the rules that the case is urgent
and needs quicker treatment. Rules are made by fallible humans,
treatment is given by doctors that maybe superb or barely passable,
and patients may be a pleasure to treat or downright obnoxious. In
return for not having to worry about how we will pay for our care, we
do have to put in extra work in managing our care. Doctors here have
to really work hard as the demand is greater than the capacity -
equally for everyone. The wealthy have the option to go elsewhere and
they do. For the rest of us, it gives us great peace-of-mind not
having to worry about going bankrupt paying medical costs.

Under medicare rules, doctors are obliged to provide a standard of
care, which is basically good but not the latest state of the art - it
tried and tested care that works for most. As budgets are tight, the
newest and latest is slower in coming. On the other hand, any serious
medical issue that is raised by the patient with most doctors will get
the extra care (often exceptional) needed beyond what the standards
require (my personal experience for over 10 years).

To get the best care requires that the patient do some work about his
medical care. Doctors time is limited (other patients are waiting) and
the patient that has done the research can get to the crux of the care
quickly and efficiently. It is like the HMOs do in the US, except here
they are responsible to government elected official and we do have
elections. It may be slow but it works and it costs less to everyone
as it does not line the pockets of rich owners.

What do I do to make it work for me. I keep track of all tests and
results, I research the medications and treatments before any
appointment, I prepare print outs of any new treatments I am
interested for the doctor. For the appointment, I prepare a written
report listing tests, treatment progress and effects, meds &
supplements list and my concerns to be dealt with at this appointment
submitted to nurse at arrival. At the appointment, my doctor has time
to deal with issues and does not have to hand-hold me through the
basics. For those that want detailed loving attention and going over
basics, the option is get wealthy and pay a doctor by the minute on
the running meter.

I have had great care by excellent doctors in Quebec and Ontario.
Diagnosis was in Jan 1999 : I have had DXA bone ineral density
scans, Prostascint scans, MRIs, CT scans, bone scans, IMRT 80Gy,
Taxotere, Zometa, Transdermal estradiol therapy and ketoconazole and
even was preped for Provenge clinical trial (I declined).

This is MY personal experience.
Lud

Thanks, Lud. I'll pass it along.

"Lud" <LudwickP@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:47f30cd7-4fa9-4404-8dc3-8b466b0b98ea@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On May 2, 3:31 pm, "Steve Kramer" <skra...@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
>> I think you all know my views on nationalized health care, but my wife is
>> a
>> facilitator for NAMI and there is currently a discussion within their
>> ranks
>> regarding nationalized mental health care. She asked of me a favor -- to
>> check with my international friends and acquaintances to see how it works
>> in
>> other countries.
>>