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Old 06-16-2008, 08:28 PM
MikeHi@anon.com
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Default Pinging NG scientists, researchers especially. Brakes on my exponential lightspeed?

Hi all


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0609124557.htm

> ScienceDaily (Jun. 11, 2008) "Researchers led by a team at the
> Michigan Center for Translational Pathology at the University of
>Michigan Health System have identified traits of an aggressive
>type of prostate cancer that occurs in about 10 percent of men
> who have the disease."


I've snipped lots out to go on to the following para…

>…."Our study is really the first to look at what is happening
> molecularly with fusion-negative prostate cancers,"
> says Scott Tomlins, Ph.D., first author of the paper
>and an M.D./Ph.D. student at the U-M Medical School


""..what is happening molecularly....," he writes.

I report this not so much for its own sake, but for its typicality.

This is one of hundreds of research papers published in the past year.
They are of such weight indeed that Charles Myers, a medical
oncologist (and with extra-special interests as a Pca patient) said
he was quite unable to keep up with them. (See him in the DVD I
recently posted -I apologise, I can't lay my hands on the URL right
now - anyone?).

It is the ability now to look deep into the molecular and genetic
causes - every day more deeply - that encourages me to believe in the
exponential rate of growth of a discovery for Pca - much as the
invention of the silicon chip was the enabler of the explosive rise of
computers to the point where they now control all modern life.

Moore's law (1965): '.. the number of transistors that can be
inexpensively placed on an integrated circuit is increasing
exponentially, doubling approximately every two years.'

At the time he wrote that law I can attest to at least one large
office block filled with a computer of a level of power that today
anyone would laugh at if offered in exchange for the cheapest and most
antiquated desktop.

But I have one question which has been troubling me. All these
hundreds of research units have been advancing steadily on THEIR Pca
front. Is their a Commander in Chief anywhere? Is anybody able to
coordinate all these different, fast-moving, penetrating thrusts? Many
are funded by private companies with patents at stake. I have no
ideological quarrel with that. More power to their dollars in finding
the solution. But what about conflicting egos slowing things up
(Montgomery, Eisenhower), conflicting patent chases (who gets to
Berlin first, wins).

Is there a computer team in a research clinic somewhere analysing
links between all the discoveries - so that Monty doesn't waste time
charging at the gaps already made by Patton? How can conflicting
patent chasers be harmonised? But if there were no egos, no patents -
who, where, is seeking to save doubling up on research already done,
and conveying to all researchers the significance for their work of
work already done by others?

I know great Science normally works by discoveries made in independent
laboratories. But have those days - discovery for its own excitement -
passed? Have we not now passed to an era of discovery for a big money
reward? So have I put a fair question, or questions? Or stupid? Will
independent researchers funded by Corporations be able quickly to
latch on and use associated discoveries made in rival laboratories?
Does anybody have an answer? Are my concerns ill-founded? I hope so.

My best wishes to all

MikeHi


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  #2  
Old 06-19-2008, 01:52 AM
Alan Meyer
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Default Re: Pinging NG scientists, researchers especially. Brakes on my exponentiallightspeed?

MikeHi@anon.com wrote:

> ...
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0609124557.htm
> ...
>
> I report this not so much for its own sake, but for its typicality.
>
> This is one of hundreds of research papers published in the past year.
> ...
> But I have one question which has been troubling me. All these
> hundreds of research units have been advancing steadily on THEIR Pca
> front. Is their a Commander in Chief anywhere? Is anybody able to
> coordinate all these different, fast-moving, penetrating thrusts? Many
> are funded by private companies with patents at stake. I have no
> ideological quarrel with that. More power to their dollars in finding
> the solution. But what about conflicting egos slowing things up
> (Montgomery, Eisenhower), conflicting patent chases (who gets to
> Berlin first, wins).
> ...


The questions you ask are certainly interesting ones.

In the U.S., the closest thing to a "Commander in Chief" is the
U.S. National Cancer Institute. It dispenses more money for
cancer research than any other institution and therefore has a
great role in determining what research is funded and what is
not. There are also some private institutions including the
American Cancer Society, the Lance Armstrong Foundation, and some
others, that dispense funds for research and therefore determine
what research should be done and by whom.

I don't know the economics of private drug companies very well,
but I suspect that they are relatively minor players in cancer
research as compared to the public and non-profit institutions.
They focus heavily on chronic conditions like high blood
pressure, high cholesterol, depression, diabetes, etc., that
bring in steady money over a long term. They're less interested
in cancer - though they do invest some money. Obviously, their
sole interest is profit. If someone discovered a cheap drug that
would cure cancer with one dose, the drug companies wouldn't
care and wouldn't invest in developing it.

How do the public and non-profit institutions determine how to
spend their money?

As I understand it, each of them has boards of scientific
advisers. These boards read and discuss the latest research and
form opinions about what is promising and what is not. They then
advise the NCI or other institution about where to emphasize
funding. They also have scientific teams that review proposals
submitted to them to try to select the most promising proposals
for funding. It's typically a very difficult task because the
number of promising proposals generally greatly exceeds the
amount of available funds.

I work as a computer programmer at NCI and have had some
peripheral contact with this proces - observing a few of the
public meetings of one of their scientific boards. I was deeply
impressed by both the knowledge and the commitment of the board
members. They were about equally divided between leading
scientists and leading medical practitioners and, between them,
they had a great deal of knowledge and hundreds of person years
of experience in treating cancer.

There are also organizations of patients that are consulted by
the NCI and by some of the private foundations. I don't think
they play a role in determining whether nanotechnology or immune
system development are funded, but they do get to express views
about things like whether patient education, screening and
prevention, etc., are funded, and may have played an important
role in the last several decades in getting more funding for
breast cancer research.

It isn't a perfect process. There are some bad decisions made.
There is a tendency to fund existing prestigious labs at the
expense of young scientists who may have great ideas but don't
have the reputations that attract funding. There is at least
some diversion of funds into "sexy" areas of research like
nanotechnology or oncogenes that may go beyond the real promise
of those fields. But, on the whole, I'm not sure how to go about
producing a better process.

Alan
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  #3  
Old 06-19-2008, 02:47 PM
rosbif
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Pinging NG scientists, researchers especially. Brakes on my exponential lightspeed?

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:00:24 +0100, MikeHi@anon.com wrote:

>Hi all
>
>
>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0609124557.htm
>

<snip>

>Is there a computer team in a research clinic somewhere analysing
>links between all the discoveries - so that Monty doesn't waste time
>charging at the gaps already made by Patton? How can conflicting
>patent chasers be harmonised? But if there were no egos, no patents -
>who, where, is seeking to save doubling up on research already done,
>and conveying to all researchers the significance for their work of
>work already done by others?
>
>I know great Science normally works by discoveries made in independent
>laboratories. But have those days - discovery for its own excitement -
>passed? Have we not now passed to an era of discovery for a big money
>reward? So have I put a fair question, or questions? Or stupid? Will
>independent researchers funded by Corporations be able quickly to
>latch on and use associated discoveries made in rival laboratories?
>Does anybody have an answer? Are my concerns ill-founded? I hope so.
>
>My best wishes to all
>
>MikeHi
>

No Mike, I think your concerns are justified. I imagine researchers
as a system of tunnelers, the holy grail is believed to be in a
particular direction and they're all digging towards a vague compass
point. Some are probably digging in the opposite direction, but if
the world is round they could get there too. Some might intersect,
meet, compare their disparate notes, others may find themselves
digging only inches away from parallel tunnels and could pool
resources but I'm sure your concerns of rivalries, egos and
intellectual property rights getting in the way are perfectly valid,
while the intellectual challenge facing an overseer and coordinator -
he whose expertise would be all-containing - looks insurmountable to
me.

On a brighter note, this clip on R4 this morning - you've probably
already heard it - is really encouraging and could have a lot of
diggers re-setting their coordinates.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today...00/7462959.stm

(same clip as in Danger Mouse's thread)
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