Provenge vs Prostvac

[Fen]

I would like to ask for help from this newsgroup. I now have the option of
starting Provenge. Is there anyone in this group who has participated? I
visited the red cross some months ago when I was being considered and was
told that it would be necessary for me to have stents placed in my neck for
the period of six weeks while my blood is being processed. A nurse would
come to my home every other day to monitor my health. QOL is important and I
have reservations of the procedure being used.

I can also start the study called "Prostvac". It's new, but there is the
added possibility of my receiving the placebo. The company making the
product is Bavarian Nordic.

Finally, I asked my urologist if I should consult with a oncologist. He
responded, "You don't need to do that, I am doing what an oncologist does".
I've talked to my GP, but he does not seem interested in getting involved.

Has anyone been in the Provenge program?

Many thanks for help.
Fen...

[I.P. Freely]

Fen wrote:
> I now have the option of starting Provenge.

Doesn't it add just 4 months, median?

> QOL is important

Isn't it a grueling process?

> I asked my urologist if I should consult with a oncologist. He
> responded, "You don't need to do that, I am doing what an oncologist does".

Do you let your auto mechanic fix your computer?
Is your mechanic so egotistical that he would insist on fixing your
computer?

I.P.

[Sue Mullen]

My first thought here is to go for the Provenge because you will know
you are getting the real drug. I don't know enough about Provenge to
know what your QOL would be like.

At this point I think you really need a medical oncologist who is an
expert on your different options. Your GP and urologist are not experts
in cancer treatments.

OK, I think you are not in the US?? Why would you go to the Red Cross
for information on Provenge? Maybe the Red Cross is differrent where you
are, but at least here is the US I would not go to them for information
on a cancer treatment, that is what an oncologist is for.

Good luck!!

sue



On 10/29/2011 9:58 AM, Fen wrote:
> I would like to ask for help from this newsgroup. I now have the option of
> starting Provenge. Is there anyone in this group who has participated? I
> visited the red cross some months ago when I was being considered and was
> told that it would be necessary for me to have stents placed in my neck for
> the period of six weeks while my blood is being processed. A nurse would
> come to my home every other day to monitor my health. QOL is important and I
> have reservations of the procedure being used.
>
> I can also start the study called "Prostvac". It's new, but there is the
> added possibility of my receiving the placebo. The company making the
> product is Bavarian Nordic.
>
> Finally, I asked my urologist if I should consult with a oncologist. He
> responded, "You don't need to do that, I am doing what an oncologist does".
> I've talked to my GP, but he does not seem interested in getting involved.
>
> Has anyone been in the Provenge program?
>
> Many thanks for help.
> Fen...
>
>

[Alan Meyer]

On 10/29/2011 09:58 AM, Fen wrote:
> I would like to ask for help from this newsgroup. I now have the
option of
> starting Provenge. Is there anyone in this group who has participated? I
> visited the red cross some months ago when I was being considered and was
> told that it would be necessary for me to have stents placed in my
neck for
> the period of six weeks while my blood is being processed. A nurse would
> come to my home every other day to monitor my health. QOL is
important and I
> have reservations of the procedure being used.
>
> I can also start the study called "Prostvac". It's new, but there is the
> added possibility of my receiving the placebo. The company making the
> product is Bavarian Nordic.
>
> Finally, I asked my urologist if I should consult with a oncologist. He
> responded, "You don't need to do that, I am doing what an oncologist
does".
> I've talked to my GP, but he does not seem interested in getting
involved.
>
> Has anyone been in the Provenge program?
>
> Many thanks for help.
> Fen...

Fen,

As you know, I'm not even a trained nurse, much less a doctor,
much less an oncologist. My opinions are strictly those of a
layman. But, having said that, perhaps even some uneducated
opinions might be of use to you and I will proceed.

First of all let me share some thoughts about doctors. I would
guess that your urologist has little or no experience with
Provenge and certainly none with Prostvac. I hope he is a
prostate cancer expert - though many urologists are expert only
at the surgical treatment of prostate cancer and he may or may
not keep up with all of the medical treatments.

Unfortunately, most of the oncologists in the world are also not
experts in prostate cancer treatment. An "oncologist" is a
doctor with some expertise in treating all types of cancer, but
most of them have only limited experience with each kind and it's
easily possible to find oncologists who are not really prostate
cancer experts. So it's difficult to know who to turn to.

For Provenge, it might be possible for you to contact the
manufacturer and ask if they know of any oncologists in your area
with experience with Provenge. I don't know if that will work
but it might be worth a shot.

For Prostvac it should be possible to contact the closest
clinical trial site and ask for an appointment to consult one of
their oncologists about joining the trial. That should
definitely work. Someone running a clinical trial that is
looking to recruit patients will be interested in speaking to you
and giving you their advice as to whether you would likely
qualify for the trial, and what you can expect if you enter it.
I would expect that a doctor on a Prostvac trial will also know
something about Provenge.

Now for the question of what to do.

If it were me, I'd be tempted to try the Provenge, but I think
I might be even more tempted to try the Prostvac. Here's why:

1. It might be a little easier to take.

I don't know if that's true. But it's not made from your own
cells so, as far as I know, it doesn't have the issues you
talked about regarding stents.

The side effects of Provenge are said to be very mild. I
don't know if it's true of Prostvac. That's something to
inquire about from the clinical trial people.

2. It might work better.

Provenge is claimed to add an average of a few months of life.
Prostvac is claimed, on their website, to add an average of
8.5 months. See:


http://www.bavarian-nordic.com/cance...reatments.aspx

3. Clinical trial treatment can be especially good.

I say that because I was in a clinical trial myself and I got
what I thought was exceptionally good care. The people I
dealt with were research people as well as doctors. The time
spent with patients was higher than I was used to. The number
of tests I received was very high (because they needed
extensive pre- and post-treatment information to evaluate the
trial outcome.) I felt that they really understood the
specific characteristics of my disease better than the
physicians I had seen before them.

Your mileage may vary. I don't know if all trials are like
mine was.

4. There may be provisions for people whose disease progresses.

Ask about the ratio of drug to placebo patients. Many trials
give the experimental drug to two patients for every one that
gets a placebo. That makes your odds 2:1 instead of of 1:1.

Ask what happens if you're in the trial and your disease gets
worse and worse. Will they tell you if you've got the
placebo? The doctor himself should not know but there may be
circumstances in which he can find out. Will they offer you
the real drug?

Whatever they do, you always have the option of dropping out.
I wouldn't want to do that without thinking it carefully
through and discussing it with the trial doctor. It can have
a negative impact on the trial in some circumstances or if
done precipitately. But it is an option.

5. By participating in trials, we help those who come after us as
well as ourselves.

When you've got a terminal illness you know it's going to get
you eventually, or something else will before it can. But by
participating in a trial you turn that illness into something
that benefits those who come after you. I think it's
something to feel good about.

I hope that helps.

Alan

[Sue Mullen]

On 10/30/2011 4:42 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:

> Ask what happens if you're in the trial and your disease gets
> worse and worse. Will they tell you if you've got the
> placebo? The doctor himself should not know but there may be
> circumstances in which he can find out. Will they offer you
> the real drug?

Alan, having been down that road with Kevin, I can tell you that you
never will find out if you had the placebo or the real drug. The doctor
does not know and has no way to find out. I think there might be someone
in a deep, dark dungeon that knows, but they don't know how to
communicate with the rest of the world.lol

sue

[Steve Kramer]

I cannot answer your question specifically for I do no know enough about
either.

However, I do know enough to tell you that unless you have one extremely
good urologist who is capable of learning everything he needs to know for
both a urologist and a medical oncologist, then you need to move on. I am
currently using a urologist and we have discussed the fact that when my
cancer next rears its ugly head, I'm headed to a medical oncologist. He
agreed. And he is very good.



PSA OCT 2000 @ 46
Biopsy NOV 2000 3+4=7, T2c
RRP DEC 2000 3+4=7), T3cN0M0, SVI, Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT MAY - JULY 2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD 0.56 years
Lupron started JULY 2003 @ 48
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.40 years
Casodex added JUL 2006 @ 51
PSA <0.1 since Next draw AUG 2012 @ 57
Illegitimati non carborundum




"Fen" wrote in message news:[email protected]..

I would like to ask for help from this newsgroup. I now have the option of
starting Provenge. Is there anyone in this group who has participated? I
visited the red cross some months ago when I was being considered and was
told that it would be necessary for me to have stents placed in my neck for
the period of six weeks while my blood is being processed. A nurse would
come to my home every other day to monitor my health. QOL is important and I
have reservations of the procedure being used.

I can also start the study called "Prostvac". It's new, but there is the
added possibility of my receiving the placebo. The company making the
product is Bavarian Nordic.

Finally, I asked my urologist if I should consult with a oncologist. He
responded, "You don't need to do that, I am doing what an oncologist does".
I've talked to my GP, but he does not seem interested in getting involved.

Has anyone been in the Provenge program?

Many thanks for help.
Fen...

[Fen]

Six months ago I was told the Myrtle Beach Urology center had processed over
30 men into a successful Provenge program. After an exam of my arteries I
was told the only way it could be administered is via the accepted and
normal method of a stents into the neck. I decided this was not for me.
Dr. Neal Shore has quite a resume. Please see the attached. Fen...

http://www.modernmedicine.com/modern....jsp?id=548048

"Steve Kramer" wrote in message news:j8oj2f$gkm$[email protected]..

I cannot answer your question specifically for I do no know enough about
either.

However, I do know enough to tell you that unless you have one extremely
good urologist who is capable of learning everything he needs to know for
both a urologist and a medical oncologist, then you need to move on. I am
currently using a urologist and we have discussed the fact that when my
cancer next rears its ugly head, I'm headed to a medical oncologist. He
agreed. And he is very good.



PSA OCT 2000 @ 46
Biopsy NOV 2000 3+4=7, T2c
RRP DEC 2000 3+4=7), T3cN0M0, SVI, Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT MAY - JULY 2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD 0.56 years
Lupron started JULY 2003 @ 48
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.40 years
Casodex added JUL 2006 @ 51
PSA <0.1 since Next draw AUG 2012 @ 57
Illegitimati non carborundum




"Fen" wrote in message news:[email protected]..

I would like to ask for help from this newsgroup. I now have the option of
starting Provenge. Is there anyone in this group who has participated? I
visited the red cross some months ago when I was being considered and was
told that it would be necessary for me to have stents placed in my neck for
the period of six weeks while my blood is being processed. A nurse would
come to my home every other day to monitor my health. QOL is important and I
have reservations of the procedure being used.

I can also start the study called "Prostvac". It's new, but there is the
added possibility of my receiving the placebo. The company making the
product is Bavarian Nordic.

Finally, I asked my urologist if I should consult with a oncologist. He
responded, "You don't need to do that, I am doing what an oncologist does".
I've talked to my GP, but he does not seem interested in getting involved.

Has anyone been in the Provenge program?

Many thanks for help.
Fen...