S-F Willow Herb - Tincture or Infusion?

Small Flowered Willow Herb (Epilobium Parviflorum) - Should I make an
infusion (tea) or tincture? This herb is reportedly effective in
treating both BPH and prostate cancer.

I searched google, and all the sites talk about making an infusion,
except one, which described a study which used an alcohol extract of
Epilobium Parviflorum in treating prostate cancer and BPH.

The important constituants of the herb are Beta-Sistosterol,
Quercetin, and Oenothein B. Are these all water soluble? If I make a
tincture what % alcohol should I use? The general rule seems to be 50%
(100 proof vodka), but this varies based on the herb. With some herbs
tinctures are not recommended. Unfortunately this herb isn't listed on
the sites I checked.

Thanks for any help.

BrendaR@mailinator.com wrote:
> Small Flowered Willow Herb (Epilobium Parviflorum) - Should I make an
> infusion (tea) or tincture? This herb is reportedly effective in
> treating both BPH and prostate cancer.
>
> I searched google, and all the sites talk about making an infusion,
> except one, which described a study which used an alcohol extract of
> Epilobium Parviflorum in treating prostate cancer and BPH.
>
> The important constituants of the herb are Beta-Sistosterol,
> Quercetin, and Oenothein B. Are these all water soluble? If I make a
> tincture what % alcohol should I use? The general rule seems to be 50%
> (100 proof vodka), but this varies based on the herb. With some herbs
> tinctures are not recommended. Unfortunately this herb isn't listed on
> the sites I checked.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
1. Prove it works. Cite peer-reviewed studies.
AND
2. Post extensive, explicit details of your cancer biopsy results; all
the surgery, radiation, and chemical treatments you've undergone; and
what evidence you have that your cancer has returned.

Then, and only then, would any savvy person help you shoot up, and
probably only in terminal desperation. You've come to the wrong forum
for voodoo.

I.P.

hello brenda
all i can say is you know a lot more about tit than me and i look forward to
developments
are these elements you write about tinctures as in homo apathy
hugh
<BrendaR@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:1173414472.694525.151710@h3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> Small Flowered Willow Herb (Epilobium Parviflorum) - Should I make an
> infusion (tea) or tincture? This herb is reportedly effective in
> treating both BPH and prostate cancer.
>
> I searched google, and all the sites talk about making an infusion,
> except one, which described a study which used an alcohol extract of
> Epilobium Parviflorum in treating prostate cancer and BPH.
>
> The important constituants of the herb are Beta-Sistosterol,
> Quercetin, and Oenothein B. Are these all water soluble? If I make a
> tincture what % alcohol should I use? The general rule seems to be 50%
> (100 proof vodka), but this varies based on the herb. With some herbs
> tinctures are not recommended. Unfortunately this herb isn't listed on
> the sites I checked.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>

after a little bit of research, i found the following that i posted
below. i question what i've found because it gave no references to
anything, but made general statements. there was no specific studies
named, nor exact actions. in fact, how can you say that this herb is an
effective treatment for benign prostatic hyperplasia, and then make a
statement, clinical studies have not yet been carried out....... so
where's the proof???


another point to make is the title of the article - traditional use for
prostate health.

if you are a member of this newsgroup - your prostate isn't healthy.

~ curtis

---------


Science in traditional use for prostate health

Scientific research can be a slow process. It starts with simple
observation, followed by the collection of scientific data. A few years
ago, an Austrian herbalist named Maria Treben wrote a bestselling book
that was translated into English as Health

Through God's Pharmacy (Ennsthaler, 1998). In it, she recommended a tea
prepared from the small-flowered willow herb (Epilobium parviflorum) as
an effective treatment for benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH), or
prostate enlargement. The herb became very popular in Europe, but there
was no evidence to support its value.

Scientists have isolated compounds known as oenotheins from the
Epilobium species and, in test-tube experiments, have shown them to
inhibit the enzymes aromatase and 5-alpha-reductase, both of which are
involved in prostate enlargement.

Clinical studies have not yet been carried out, but the signs are
hopeful that the traditional use of this herb will be validated. Willow
herb is not yet widely available in the US.

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc

On Mar 8, 10:27 pm, Bren...@mailinator.com wrote:
> Small Flowered Willow Herb (Epilobium Parviflorum) - Should I make an
> infusion (tea) or tincture? This herb is reportedly effective in
> treating both BPH and prostate cancer.
>
> I searched google, and all the sites talk about making an infusion,
> except one, which described a study which used an alcohol extract of
> Epilobium Parviflorum in treating prostate cancer and BPH.

that study may be PMID: 16122891
it says both water and ethanolic extracts showed effect.


> The important constituants of the herb are Beta-Sistosterol,
> Quercetin, and Oenothein B. Are these all water soluble? If I make a
> tincture what % alcohol should I use? The general rule seems to be 50%
> (100 proof vodka), but this varies based on the herb. With some herbs
> tinctures are not recommended. Unfortunately this herb isn't listed on
> the sites I checked.

you don't know what the important constituents are, but they
are soluable in water and/or ethanol. Using a water/ethanol
mixture means you will dissolve anything that dissolves in either,
not as well as each pure liquid.


> Thanks for any help.

you really should first verify that you really have any
prostate problem at all, brenda.

pubmed didn't have anything on safety of Epilobium Parviflorum
and even if it is safe, by luck, you're going to foul up the taste
of some perfectly good vodka.

<BrendaR@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:1173414472.694525.151710@h3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> Small Flowered Willow Herb (Epilobium Parviflorum) - Should I make an
> infusion (tea) or tincture? This herb is reportedly effective in
> treating both BPH and prostate cancer.

I looked at the article cited by "just Ed". It said that the drug
shows some effect as an anti-oxidant and some as a COX-1
and COX-2 inhibitor. There is evidence that these can slow
the growth of prostate cancer, but no evidence whatever that
they can stop it or cure it.

There are plenty of other drugs available that have those same
effects, and you can get them with standardized doses and
purities. So it seems to me that you may well get less effect
from your home-brew than you could get with stuff from the
drugstore, and without ingesting whatever else is in that herb
besides the active ingredient.

Whatever you do, if you suspect that the person you are
preparing this for may have prostate cancer, see a doctor
immediately! Many cancers, including prostate cancer,
are highly treatable and curable at the early stages but not
curable after they grow and develop. If you decide to "try"
herbs first, then try medical treatment later, you may wait
just long enough to kill the patient.

Alan

On Mar 9, 4:07 pm, "Alan Meyer" <amey...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <Bren...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1173414472.694525.151710@h3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>
> > Small Flowered Willow Herb (Epilobium Parviflorum) - Should I make an
> > infusion (tea) or tincture? This herb is reportedly effective in
> > treating both BPH and prostate cancer.
>
> I looked at the article cited by "just Ed". It said that the drug
> shows some effect as an anti-oxidant and some as a COX-1
> and COX-2 inhibitor. There is evidence that these can slow
> the growth of prostate cancer, but no evidence whatever that
> they can stop it or cure it.
>
> There are plenty of other drugs available that have those same
> effects, and you can get them with standardized doses and
> purities. So it seems to me that you may well get less effect
> from your home-brew than you could get with stuff from the
> drugstore, and without ingesting whatever else is in that herb
> besides the active ingredient.
>
> Whatever you do, if you suspect that the person you are
> preparing this for may have prostate cancer, see a doctor
> immediately! Many cancers, including prostate cancer,
> are highly treatable and curable at the early stages but not
> curable after they grow and develop. If you decide to "try"
> herbs first, then try medical treatment later, you may wait
> just long enough to kill the patient.
>
> Alan


I found several research articles, only one said they used an alcohol
extraction. The others didn't specify. The herb inhibits the enzymes
aromatase and 5-alpha-reductase, both of which are involved in
prostate enlargement. The herb has been used for prostate problems for
many years in Europe (for long enought to be considered a "folk"
remedy)- if there were any problems with it the news would have
spread. The studies are more recent. The diagnosis here is BPH, not
cancer. Research has shown Epilobium Parviflorum is as effective as
Proscar/Finasteride (a synthetic 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor) in
treating BPH. As a plus - Epilobium sp. has been shown to inhibit the
spread of prostate cancer).

On Mar 9, 8:01 am, "just Ed" <just_ed53s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 8, 10:27 pm, Bren...@mailinator.com wrote:
>
> > Small Flowered Willow Herb (Epilobium Parviflorum) - Should I make an
> > infusion (tea) or tincture? This herb is reportedly effective in
> > treating both BPH and prostate cancer.
>
> > I searched google, and all the sites talk about making an infusion,
> > except one, which described a study which used an alcohol extract of
> > Epilobium Parviflorum in treating prostate cancer and BPH.
>
> that study may be PMID: 16122891
> it says both water and ethanolic extracts showed effect.
>
> > The important constituants of the herb are Beta-Sistosterol,
> > Quercetin, and Oenothein B. Are these all water soluble? If I make a
> > tincture what % alcohol should I use? The general rule seems to be 50%
> > (100 proof vodka), but this varies based on the herb. With some herbs
> > tinctures are not recommended. Unfortunately this herb isn't listed on
> > the sites I checked.
>
> you don't know what the important constituents are, but they
> are soluable in water and/or ethanol. Using a water/ethanol
> mixture means you will dissolve anything that dissolves in either,
> not as well as each pure liquid.
>
> > Thanks for any help.
>
> you really should first verify that you really have any
> prostate problem at all, brenda.
>
> pubmed didn't have anything on safety of Epilobium Parviflorum
> and even if it is safe, by luck, you're going to foul up the taste
> of some perfectly good vodka.


I found several research articles, only one said they used an alcohol
extraction. The others didn't specify. The herb inhibits the enzymes
aromatase and 5-alpha-reductase, both of which are involved in
prostate enlargement. The herb has been used for prostate problems for
many years in Europe (for long enought to be considered a "folk"
remedy)- if there were any problems with it the news would have
spread. The studies are more recent. The diagnosis here is BPH, not
cancer. Research has shown Epilobium Parviflorum is as effective as
Proscar/Finasteride (a synthetic 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor) in
treating BPH. As a plus - Epilobium sp. has been shown to inhibit the
spread of prostate cancer.

On Mar 9, 4:06 am, "newsgroups" <t...@nospamyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> hello brenda
> all i can say is you know a lot more about tit than me and i look forward to
> developments
> are these elements you write about tinctures as in homo apathy
> hugh<Bren...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>

No, homeopathy attempts to treat the sick with extremely diluted
agents that, in undiluted doses, produce similar symptoms in the
healthy.

Epilobium Parviflorum treats BPH, and may slow prostate cancer. An
infusion is made by adding a dried herb to high proof alcohol, letting
in set in a dark place for a couple months, with occassional shaking,
and then filtering out (and discarding) the herb.

<BrendaR@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:1173498337.698076.136260@n33g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
....
> I found several research articles, only one said they used an alcohol
> extraction. The others didn't specify. The herb inhibits the enzymes
> aromatase and 5-alpha-reductase, both of which are involved in
> prostate enlargement. The herb has been used for prostate problems for
> many years in Europe (for long enought to be considered a "folk"
> remedy)- if there were any problems with it the news would have
> spread. The studies are more recent. The diagnosis here is BPH, not
> cancer. Research has shown Epilobium Parviflorum is as effective as
> Proscar/Finasteride (a synthetic 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor) in
> treating BPH. As a plus - Epilobium sp. has been shown to inhibit the
> spread of prostate cancer).

As I understand it, 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors will have a good
effect on prostate tumors. However, if I had cancer (which I did)
I wouldn't want to use one without consulting a medical oncology
specialist first.

Unfortunately, this is an area that is not yet well understood
scientifically and, perhaps worse, few prostate cancer specialists
follow this literature and understand even what is known. So it's
hard to get really informed medical advice about hormone
therapy (which 5-ar inhibition is - if I understand it).

Good luck with it.

Alan

On Mar 9, 9:47 pm, Bren...@mailinator.com wrote:
> On Mar 9, 8:01 am, "just Ed" <just_ed53s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 8, 10:27 pm, Bren...@mailinator.com wrote:
>
> > > Small Flowered Willow Herb (Epilobium Parviflorum) - Should I make an
> > > infusion (tea) or tincture? This herb is reportedly effective in
> > > treating both BPH and prostate cancer.
>
> > > I searched google, and all the sites talk about making an infusion,
> > > except one, which described a study which used an alcohol extract of
> > > Epilobium Parviflorum in treating prostate cancer and BPH.
>
> > that study may be PMID: 16122891
> > it says both water and ethanolic extracts showed effect.
>
> > > The important constituants of the herb are Beta-Sistosterol,
> > > Quercetin, and Oenothein B. Are these all water soluble? If I make a
> > > tincture what % alcohol should I use? The general rule seems to be 50%
> > > (100 proof vodka), but this varies based on the herb. With some herbs
> > > tinctures are not recommended. Unfortunately this herb isn't listed on
> > > the sites I checked.
>
> > you don't know what the important constituents are, but they
> > are soluable in water and/or ethanol. Using a water/ethanol
> > mixture means you will dissolve anything that dissolves in either,
> > not as well as each pure liquid.
>
> > > Thanks for any help.
>
> > you really should first verify that you really have any
> > prostate problem at all, brenda.
>
> > pubmed didn't have anything on safety of Epilobium Parviflorum
> > and even if it is safe, by luck, you're going to foul up the taste
> > of some perfectly good vodka.
>
> I found several research articles, only one said they used an alcohol
> extraction. The others didn't specify. The herb inhibits the enzymes
> aromatase and 5-alpha-reductase, both of which are involved in
> prostate enlargement.

PMID: 8778238 says a water extract inhibited 5-AR, I didn't find
anything mentioning aromatase inhibition.


>The herb has been used for prostate problems for
> many years in Europe (for long enought to be considered a "folk"
> remedy)- if there were any problems with it the news would have
> spread.

I don't buy that:
Alcoholic extraction may liberate thousands of times more,
different components than ingestion of traditional herb. Likewise,
water extraction can allow extraction from larger quantities
of herb than can be conveniently ingested. In either case,
use of traditional herb does not represent the dosage,
range of constituents provided by extracts.


> The studies are more recent. The diagnosis here is BPH, not
> cancer. Research has shown Epilobium Parviflorum is as effective as
> Proscar/Finasteride (a synthetic 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor) in
> treating BPH. As a plus - Epilobium sp. has been shown to inhibit the
> spread of prostate cancer.

'Epilobium Parviflorum Finasteride' finds nothing in Pubmed, please
provide that reference if you can.

PMID: 12043098 turns up quickly showing saw palmetto/nettle root
perform as well with "better tolerability than finasteride".

PMID: 10563375 is "Antiproliferative effect of a polysaccharide
fraction of a 20% methanolic extract of stinging nettle roots upon
epithelial cells of the human prostate (LNCaP)."

I don't think I need to comment on saw palmetto, and PMID: 16635963
did 500+ patients to 18 months on Urtica dioica (nettle root) extract
for safety.

bottom line: I don't think Epilobium Parviflorum is as well
researched,
no reason to think its better, inferior safety data... use it only as
a 'later' if not 'last' resort.

I can't find it now, but (from memory) I thought that nettle root
extract
acted by competitive(?) inhibition of an estrogen receptor (thus the
use with saw palmetto). If this is correct, it might complement an
aromatase inhibitor in shutting down that growth mechanism.

BrendaR@mailinator.com wrote:

> No, homeopathy attempts to treat the sick with extremely diluted
> agents that, in undiluted doses, produce similar symptoms in the
> healthy.

And, last I read, was proved ineffective. I hope "Brenda" is also
pursuing *proven* treatments.

I.P.

On Mar 10, 4:01 pm, "just Ed" <just_ed53s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > I found several research articles, only one said they used an alcohol
> > extraction. The others didn't specify. The herb inhibits the enzymes
> > aromatase and 5-alpha-reductase, both of which are involved in
> > prostate enlargement.
>
> PMID: 8778238 says a water extract inhibited 5-AR, I didn't find
> anything mentioning aromatase inhibition.
>

Try Google. The following reference was in the first two hits on
"epilobium parviflorum aromatase": Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase and
aromatase by the ellagitannins oenothein A and oenothein B from
Eqilobium species. Ducrey B; Marston A; Gohring S; Hartmann RW;
Hostettmann K.. Planta Med, 63(2):111-1 1997 Apr.

I didn't post this article to get into supporting Small Flowered
Willow Herb. I was hoping someone was familiar with making extracts.