Socialize health care

"Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:13M6h.278688$QZ1.170583@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> Some of this discussion reminds me of one I had with a Black fellow I know
> very well. He said that when he is standing in line after business hours
> and they close the service window, he "knows" it is because he is black.
> When a waiter serves a white customer before him he "knows" it is because
> he is black (and not because what he ordered takes more time). He says he
> can't help it because that was the way he was brought up.

That's such a shame - that he feels that and that it happens.

When I hear of the terrible things done by immigrants I do wonder if white
Americans are 100% pure ...

I say the same to British people who rant about immigrants too. After all,
what does being English mean? By the same token, what does being American
mean? At some time in the past our forebears have been immigrants to some
place or another and they might not have been purer than pure ...

Mary

"Steve Jordan" <mycroftscj1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:XRN6h.69$p%.57@newsfe12.phx...
>

>
> Patient abuse makes my teeth ache.

I'm sure it has the same effct on everyone.

I'm sure it happens in all systems.

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:
> "Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:13M6h.278688$QZ1.170583@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> Some of this discussion reminds me of one I had with a Black fellow I know
>> very well. He said that when he is standing in line after business hours
>> and they close the service window, he "knows" it is because he is black.
>> When a waiter serves a white customer before him he "knows" it is because
>> he is black (and not because what he ordered takes more time). He says he
>> can't help it because that was the way he was brought up.
>
> That's such a shame - that he feels that and that it happens.
>
> When I hear of the terrible things done by immigrants I do wonder if white
> Americans are 100% pure ...
>
> I say the same to British people who rant about immigrants too. After all,
> what does being English mean? By the same token, what does being American
> mean? At some time in the past our forebears have been immigrants to some
> place or another and they might not have been purer than pure ...
>
> Mary
>
>
I think you are twisting what I said. What he was saying is that the
way his parents taught him, every thing that happens is because of
color. BTW he is a very conservative Republican. A Lawyer and a true
Bush man!!

"Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:gh%6h.66240$Fi1.16871@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Mary Fisher wrote:
>> "Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:13M6h.278688$QZ1.170583@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>> Some of this discussion reminds me of one I had with a Black fellow I
>>> know very well. He said that when he is standing in line after business
>>> hours and they close the service window, he "knows" it is because he is
>>> black. When a waiter serves a white customer before him he "knows" it is
>>> because he is black (and not because what he ordered takes more time).
>>> He says he can't help it because that was the way he was brought up.
>>
>> That's such a shame - that he feels that and that it happens.
>>
>> When I hear of the terrible things done by immigrants I do wonder if
>> white Americans are 100% pure ...
>>
>> I say the same to British people who rant about immigrants too. After
>> all, what does being English mean? By the same token, what does being
>> American mean? At some time in the past our forebears have been
>> immigrants to some place or another and they might not have been purer
>> than pure ...
>>
>> Mary
> I think you are twisting what I said.

er - where - and how? I don't think I was.

> What he was saying is that the way his parents taught him, every thing
> that happens is because of color. BTW he is a very conservative
> Republican. A Lawyer and a true Bush man!!

That means nothing to me because I'm English and I don't understand US
politics any more than I expect you to understand ours :-)

(or cricket)

Interesting that my comments on all our backgrounds is ignored <G>

Mary

"Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:455c9054$0$761$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.ne t...
>
> "Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:gh%6h.66240$Fi1.16871@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> Mary Fisher wrote:
>>> "Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:13M6h.278688$QZ1.170583@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...


> That means nothing to me because I'm English and I don't understand US
> politics any more than I expect you to understand ours :-)

And that, dear woman, says more about you than you probably intended.

Mary Fisher wrote:

>
> When I hear of the terrible things done by immigrants I do wonder if white
> Americans are 100% pure ...
>
> I say the same to British people who rant about immigrants too. After all,
> what does being English mean? By the same token, what does being American
> mean? At some time in the past our forebears have been immigrants to some
> place or another and they might not have been purer than pure ...

You still refuse to get it: No one's complaining about immigrants, and
most of us "white folks" don't give a damn about our national or racial
ancestry or its purity. We're ranting about people who cross our borders
ILLEGALLY, especially the ones who do so expressly to abuse our
generosity, commit MORE crimes, or expand terrorism. I'd almost guess
that the primary objectors to the hard-working illegal-immigrant
fruit-pickers I see every day are the hard-working LEGAL-immigrant
fruit-pickers who got in line and paid their dues to compete for those
jobs.

Being American means, in my nutshell opinion, entering America legally,
becoming a citizen, and assimilating into our society to the extent of
English language fluency and abiding by our laws. It's icing on
everyone's cake -- and a testimony to the land of opportunity -- if they
really prosper.

I.P.

Rich256 wrote:
> [My black friend] says he can't help it because that was the way
> he was brought up.

Ask him whether he thinks his excuse justifies letting black students
call teachers GDMFHonkyBitches in class, as some U.S. city school boards
have decreed in the pursuit of political correctness. Maybe he'll then
realize that he's fooling no one.

I.P.

<sigvald@binet.is> wrote in message
news:1163664958.262561.166810@b28g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>
> Steve Kramer wrote:
>> <sigvald@binet.is> wrote in message
>> news:1163574493.978972.283280@k70g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>>
>> >> But, more importantly, are you a prostate cancer victim? Please tell
>> >> us
>> >> about it.
>> >
>> > No, and more importantly, does that limit my freedom of expression?
>> >
>>
>> No. It may better define you as an interloper. But, assuming you meant

>> "freedom of speech" it does not limit it. Not that it applies outside
>> the
>> restrictions of the federal government.

> In a country like Iceland where life ecpectancy is at the highest
> worldwide, the chances of dying from the more "ordinary" kinds of
> illnesses are rather low, it is the coronary diseases and cancer that
> are the biggest killers, my change of becoming a prostate cancer victim
> is actually pretty high.

Then, may I suggest that if you are asked again, you might say something
like, "No, not yet, but I attend all the newsgroups with every possible
disease I might get -- just in case."

Steve Kramer wrote:

> Then, may I suggest that if you are asked again, you might say something
> like, "No, not yet, but I attend all the newsgroups with every possible
> disease I might get -- just in case."

My prognosis may be far more encouraging if I had done that, at least
with PC. And that may even have made sense, given its ratio of high
likelihood to my low level of knowledge about it 30 months ago. Some
people can trust our doctors with our lungs, heart (at least the male
heart), and other blood chemistry, but far too many family physicians --
especially outside the U.S. -- don't know squat about prostate cancer
detection and treatment.

I.P.

Mary Fisher wrote:
> "Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:gh%6h.66240$Fi1.16871@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> Mary Fisher wrote:
>>> "Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:13M6h.278688$QZ1.170583@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>>> Some of this discussion reminds me of one I had with a Black fellow I
>>>> know very well. He said that when he is standing in line after business
>>>> hours and they close the service window, he "knows" it is because he is
>>>> black. When a waiter serves a white customer before him he "knows" it is
>>>> because he is black (and not because what he ordered takes more time).
>>>> He says he can't help it because that was the way he was brought up.
>>> That's such a shame - that he feels that and that it happens.
>>>
>>> When I hear of the terrible things done by immigrants I do wonder if
>>> white Americans are 100% pure ...
>>>
>>> I say the same to British people who rant about immigrants too. After
>>> all, what does being English mean? By the same token, what does being
>>> American mean? At some time in the past our forebears have been
>>> immigrants to some place or another and they might not have been purer
>>> than pure ...
>>>
>>> Mary
>> I think you are twisting what I said.
>
> er - where - and how? I don't think I was.
>
>> What he was saying is that the way his parents taught him, every thing
>> that happens is because of color. BTW he is a very conservative
>> Republican. A Lawyer and a true Bush man!!
>
> That means nothing to me because I'm English and I don't understand US
> politics any more than I expect you to understand ours :-)
>
> (or cricket)
>
> Interesting that my comments on all our backgrounds is ignored <G>
>
> Mary
>
>

And I get an email almost daily from a Fellow in London, have for about
10 years, and politics is one of our main topics of discussion. That
and Prostate!!

I live in an area that is now about 60% Hispanic. Most legal and I have
no problem with that. It's those illegals who take away work from
Americans by working for lower wages, which they can because they work
for cash and do not pay Income or Social Security Tax. No record of
them being here so there is no way to tax them.

And the argument that we need them to do the jobs Americans don't want
is just false. They are going for the construction jobs etc. Just a
few days ago farmers were worried they were not going to get their crops
in because they can't find help. Those are the jobs that used to be
filled by legal "Green Card" immigrants.

<sigvald@binet.is> wrote in message
news:1163664958.262561.166810@b28g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>
>

> In a country like Iceland where life ecpectancy is at the highest
> worldwide, the chances of dying from the more "ordinary" kinds of
> illnesses are rather low, it is the coronary diseases and cancer that
> are the biggest killers, my change of becoming a prostate cancer victim
> is actually pretty high.

Yes, there was a programme on UK national radio recently about this. Cancer
and coronary diseases are far more prevalent than they used to be simply
because we're not dying of other conditions. A straw poll revealed that none
of the (few) people who were asked thought that cancer was 'normal' when of
course it IS normal for older people.

It's recognised that many men die with prostate cancer than of it but the
same, it was said, is true of other cancers, especially some types of breast
cancer in women.

It's something which should be talked about more, I believe. Ignorance does
no favours to anyone.

By the way, I've been to Iceland twice and love it, I'd gladly live there!
The people were happy, friendly and honest - well the ones we met were :-)

The landscape is fabulous.

And I believe in the little people ... honestly. There were too many
indications to deny them.

Mary
>

"Rich256" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:C447h.286195$QZ1.198994@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
> I live in an area that is now about 60% Hispanic.

We are the only English family in our street. Whatever 'English' means. On
one side we have a Lithuanian/Italian couple, on the other a West Indian
couple. At the back is an Indian family who fled from Africa in the 70s. I
shan't list all the other neighbours, our own family is interesting enough.

For five generations back my family (parents etc.) were born in England.

When I married Spouse I didn't know that his maternal grandmother was Irish,
she was dead.

One of our sons married a Welsh girl, another married a Scot. Their children
have West Indian (well, born in England but of West Indian parentage)
godparents. A daughter married a Jew, his mother's family came here from
Russia. He didn't know he was Jewish until I told him, he'd been very anti
Semitic until then <VBG> They live in France and their son is engaged to an
Angolan girl. Our other son was engaged to a Latvian for a time but that
came to an end. Our other daughter now lives in Wales and her son was born
there so will be a Welsh speaking Welshman.

So I don't know now whether we're an English family or what :-)

> Most legal and I have no problem with that. It's those illegals who take
> away work from Americans by working for lower wages, which they can
> because they work for cash and do not pay Income or Social Security Tax.
> No record of them being here so there is no way to tax them.

So how do you know they're there?
>
> And the argument that we need them to do the jobs Americans don't want is
> just false. They are going for the construction jobs etc. Just a few
> days ago farmers were worried they were not going to get their crops in
> because they can't find help. Those are the jobs that used to be filled
> by legal "Green Card" immigrants.

Can't unemployed Americans help the farmers?

I hear all these arguments in England and have done all my life. The fact is
that the British Isles have been invaded and populated for centuries by many
different peoples, before there was any legality or passports. USA has had
wave after wave of immigrants, before there was any legality or passports.

A question: do children born in USA of 'illegals' have the full equality
ensured for American citizens?

Mary

When my ancestors came here the west was wide open and they wanted to
get people to settle it. It was a harsh difficult life for all that
came. My G Grandfather died fighting a prairie fire in North Dakota.
They lived in sod houses a hundred of mile from the nearest town.

There are millions of immigrants that want to come here. Especially
from Asia. Shall we provide transportation for them? I have a Dutch, a
Vietnamese and a Korean Family living across the street. My next door
neighbor is from Canada and he just got his citizenship.

In general most of us have no objections to immigrants but most of us
think they must come legally. It is not fair for the guy from Eastern
Europe to have to wait to get his wife here because her slot was taken
by someone who came across the border illegally.

>
>> Most legal and I have no problem with that. It's those illegals who take
>> away work from Americans by working for lower wages, which they can
>> because they work for cash and do not pay Income or Social Security Tax.
>> No record of them being here so there is no way to tax them.
>
> So how do you know they're there?

For one, they are at the Emergency rooms of the Hospitals. I happened
to be in one just a month ago. About 50 people sitting there and not a
one spoke English. ERs can't ask where they are from or turn away
emergency care. A private hospital is allowed to send anyone who can't
pay and is not in need of immediate care to a General Hospital where
they don't turn anyone away. But they are not allowed to turn them away
or even ask if they are here legally.

Some states have just enacted laws to limit social services to illegals.
The southwestern states are facing a major financing problem for those
services. Hispanic in California is now a majority and the illegal
fraction is a significant part. 15% of the children in elementary
schools are here illegally. One out of two babies born in California is
Latino. They have children early and large families. By birth rate
alone they are taking over the state.

>
> Can't unemployed Americans help the farmers?
Some people don't want to work. You have them too. The point I was
trying to make is that the excuse for letting even illegal in is to help
the farmers get help. Problem is the illegals don't want to do that work.


> I hear all these arguments in England and have done all my life. The fact is
> that the British Isles have been invaded and populated for centuries by many
> different peoples, before there was any legality or passports. USA has had
> wave after wave of immigrants, before there was any legality or passports.

That has not been true for a long time. For at least the past 100 years
even a sick immigrant could be sent home. Many of the illegals have
tuberculosis and are not seeking treatment.

Some of my ancestors came a indentured servants. That was almost a
legal form of slavery. They had to work for years to clear their debt
and become citizens.

>
> A question: do children born in USA of 'illegals' have the full equality
> ensured for American citizens?

Yeah, they are citizens by law. I remember that 50 years ago a woman
would come across the border to have her child so it could be an
American. However, it does not work the other way. It is really tough
to get into Mexico. You have to have money to become a citizen there.
Violations can end you in jail and you don't ever want to be in a
Mexican Jail.


>
> Mary
>
>

Someone asked Rich
>> Can't unemployed Americans help the farmers?
Unemployment is effectively zero in the U.S. i.e., it is near
historically low levels, the level at which virtually everyone who wants
to work has a job. Most of the ones who don't include the homeless by
choice, those who prefer welfare to work, those unwilling to move to get
work, and ME.
>> Mary

Oh, crap, Now I see I fed the troll.
Never mind.

I.P.

I.P. Freely wrote:
> Someone asked Rich
>>> Can't unemployed Americans help the farmers?
> Unemployment is effectively zero in the U.S. i.e., it is near
> historically low levels, the level at which virtually everyone who wants
> to work has a job. Most of the ones who don't include the homeless by
> choice, those who prefer welfare to work, those unwilling to move to get
> work, and ME.
>>> Mary
>
> Oh, crap, Now I see I fed the troll.
> Never mind.
>
> I.P.

Perhaps not a troll but just naive. I forgot to add that of the
unemployed most are quite likely women with children, disabled, etc who
can't do farm work. And for those that are raised under the welfare
roof life goes on and on. Ask a young man, who was raised that way, how
to get money and he will direct you to the nearest welfare office. For
many they have never thought about working for a living.

And the UKs unemployment rate is higher than the US. Why?

The US is funding the Norwegian medical care in the form of payment for
oil. I forget just where they stand in oil production but it is near
the top. A small country with huge income. Even so their medical
system is a government thing. I have been told that a bureaucrat first
determines if you are worth the treatment. If he decides against you no
doctor in the country can treat you even if you can pay. I just noted a
post by someone from Norway that was going outside the country to get
treatment.

Rich256 wrote:
>
>> Oh, crap, Now I see I fed the troll.
>> Never mind.
>>
>> I.P.
>
> Perhaps not a troll but just naive.

With 60,000 newsgroup posts -- thousands of which are aggressive word
parsing exercises if her sample here is representative -- on MANY
newsgroups, Mary's not naive. She simply gets off on the internet at the
expense of our time.

I.P.