For those who have had Da Vinci surgery

What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?

Mel

On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:14:23 -0400, "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net>
wrote:

>What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
>incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
>surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?
>
>Mel
>

I had mine Dec 2005. Still have ED, at best I get maybe 50% of what I
used to have with a LOT of effort. I had a catheter in for 3 weeks,
one week extra due to scheduling issues, not medical ones. It took
several months to get off the pads, can't recall exactly how many but
I think it was less then 6 months. Initially I had almost no control
but could make it thru the night with a mostly dry diaper. Got rid of
the diapers at about 1 month. Even at 2 years I still had an
occasional uncontrolled spurt of urine but now it's just about
completely under control. I never had any real bowel issues, some
constipation at times due to the medication for bladder spasms. As
far as recovering from the surgery itself (the cutting and chopping
and sewing) I think it took a year before I really felt like
pre-surgery. There were times earlier then that when I thought I was
recovered but then another month would go by and I'd feel better and
realize that a month earlier I had really not been recovered. Initial
recovery to where I could feel comfortable at work took a couple
months (still had pads). I went back to work at about one month but
it was difficult - hard to sit and hard to focus on the work.

That's worse than I thought it would be. I wonder if they have improved the
surgery in the last 4 years (or maybe the doctors are more experienced or
maybe that's still the way it is!)

Mel
"DoubleOwSeven" <doubleowseven@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2g9ba5h72db6p72s68nqrceuq7sc1ofruc@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:14:23 -0400, "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net>
> wrote:
>
>>What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
>>incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
>>surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?
>>
>>Mel
>>
>
> I had mine Dec 2005. Still have ED, at best I get maybe 50% of what I
> used to have with a LOT of effort. I had a catheter in for 3 weeks,
> one week extra due to scheduling issues, not medical ones. It took
> several months to get off the pads, can't recall exactly how many but
> I think it was less then 6 months. Initially I had almost no control
> but could make it thru the night with a mostly dry diaper. Got rid of
> the diapers at about 1 month. Even at 2 years I still had an
> occasional uncontrolled spurt of urine but now it's just about
> completely under control. I never had any real bowel issues, some
> constipation at times due to the medication for bladder spasms. As
> far as recovering from the surgery itself (the cutting and chopping
> and sewing) I think it took a year before I really felt like
> pre-surgery. There were times earlier then that when I thought I was
> recovered but then another month would go by and I'd feel better and
> realize that a month earlier I had really not been recovered. Initial
> recovery to where I could feel comfortable at work took a couple
> months (still had pads). I went back to work at about one month but
> it was difficult - hard to sit and hard to focus on the work.

I think the doctors for any of the surgeries give a more rosy picture
then reality. I had the surgery at 3 PM one day, was walking (slowly)
the halls by 11 PM that night, and was discharged the next day around
1 PM. I went back to my Hotel for about 4 days and then flew home. I
had the cath taken out at home two weeks later (should have been 1.4
weeks later but the doctor decided to take a Friday off). So from the
immediately after surgery point of view, things went very well. For
whatever reason I had a lot of swelling in the crotch/scrotum area
that made sitting very uncomfortable for at least the next 6 to 9
weeks (I wish I had kept a journal). I spent a lot of time
standing...


On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 21:18:23 -0400, "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net>
wrote:

>That's worse than I thought it would be. I wonder if they have improved the
>surgery in the last 4 years (or maybe the doctors are more experienced or
>maybe that's still the way it is!)
>
>Mel
>"DoubleOwSeven" <doubleowseven@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:2g9ba5h72db6p72s68nqrceuq7sc1ofruc@4ax.com.. .
>> On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:14:23 -0400, "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
>>>incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
>>>surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?
>>>
>>>Mel
>>>
>>
>> I had mine Dec 2005. Still have ED, at best I get maybe 50% of what I
>> used to have with a LOT of effort. I had a catheter in for 3 weeks,
>> one week extra due to scheduling issues, not medical ones. It took
>> several months to get off the pads, can't recall exactly how many but
>> I think it was less then 6 months. Initially I had almost no control
>> but could make it thru the night with a mostly dry diaper. Got rid of
>> the diapers at about 1 month. Even at 2 years I still had an
>> occasional uncontrolled spurt of urine but now it's just about
>> completely under control. I never had any real bowel issues, some
>> constipation at times due to the medication for bladder spasms. As
>> far as recovering from the surgery itself (the cutting and chopping
>> and sewing) I think it took a year before I really felt like
>> pre-surgery. There were times earlier then that when I thought I was
>> recovered but then another month would go by and I'd feel better and
>> realize that a month earlier I had really not been recovered. Initial
>> recovery to where I could feel comfortable at work took a couple
>> months (still had pads). I went back to work at about one month but
>> it was difficult - hard to sit and hard to focus on the work.
>

It is, after all, major surgery. By comparison, I had open surgery and was
in the hospital for 8 days (though it should have been 4 days), had a
catheter for 2 weeks, 4 days, and was not allowed to go back to work before
6 weeks.

And that was great compared to my father in 1974 who was in the hospital for
weeks and at home for months.


"MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net> wrote in message
news:h84bcv$hb6$1@news.eternal-september.org...
: That's worse than I thought it would be. I wonder if they have improved
the
: surgery in the last 4 years (or maybe the doctors are more experienced or
: maybe that's still the way it is!)
:
: Mel
: "DoubleOwSeven" <doubleowseven@yahoo.com> wrote in message
: news:2g9ba5h72db6p72s68nqrceuq7sc1ofruc@4ax.com...
: > On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:14:23 -0400, "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net>
: > wrote:
: >
: >>What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
: >>incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
: >>surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?
: >>
: >>Mel
: >>
: >
: > I had mine Dec 2005. Still have ED, at best I get maybe 50% of what I
: > used to have with a LOT of effort. I had a catheter in for 3 weeks,
: > one week extra due to scheduling issues, not medical ones. It took
: > several months to get off the pads, can't recall exactly how many but
: > I think it was less then 6 months. Initially I had almost no control
: > but could make it thru the night with a mostly dry diaper. Got rid of
: > the diapers at about 1 month. Even at 2 years I still had an
: > occasional uncontrolled spurt of urine but now it's just about
: > completely under control. I never had any real bowel issues, some
: > constipation at times due to the medication for bladder spasms. As
: > far as recovering from the surgery itself (the cutting and chopping
: > and sewing) I think it took a year before I really felt like
: > pre-surgery. There were times earlier then that when I thought I was
: > recovered but then another month would go by and I'd feel better and
: > realize that a month earlier I had really not been recovered. Initial
: > recovery to where I could feel comfortable at work took a couple
: > months (still had pads). I went back to work at about one month but
: > it was difficult - hard to sit and hard to focus on the work.
:
:



--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA undetectable since; last checked on 06/04/09
Illegitimati non carborundum

I did not have DaVinci.
I think it depends on not only Dr. skill, but condition of person having
surgery.
Age, and physical condition are factors I believe.

Since I had regular RP and age at 49 I was up and walking with difficulty
1.5 days after surgery, home in 2.5 days, and walking with catheter in for
about 1.5 weeks....
Building Cabinets in garage 2.5 weeks after....being careful.
I did not need any diaper.......and only maybe a little drip......but ok in
that dept.
ED took 2 years to recover.
I know you asked for DaVinci....
john
"MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net> wrote in message
news:h847kv$nn3$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
> incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
> surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?
>
> Mel
>

Mel, I gather you are faced w/ choosing which procedure you will have.
The plumbing work that goes on is the same regardless of how you get
to the pipes, and all of the effects and potential complications of
RRP are present w/ robotic. The urethra has been cut in two and sewn
back together (anastomosis) so you have to have a catheter to keep it
open and allow it to heal w/o urine running through it. Surgeons who
favor the robot claim that they can see better due to magnification
and think their movements are more precise, resulting in better
anastomoses, less blood loss, and more effective nerve sparing. From
everything I've heard, robotic surgery may get you out of the hospital
a day sooner and get the catheter out of you somewhat sooner.
Personally, I had RRP and a very easy time of it. Every man who has
had prostate surgery has ED to some extent; if they say they don't -
they are lying. :-)

Bill/Memphis

Mel,
I'm one of those folks that has never responded to this newsgroup
before. I had an Open RP in 2007 with excellent outcome.

I like you had no symptoms, ultrasound saw nothing but PSA had moved up
to 4.1. the biopsy had 4 of 12 samples positive with Gleason of 4+3=7.

I would pick your Uro with great care for this operation. My technique
was pretty novel. The local barber was also having prostate problems and
took a survey of his clients. My Uro won the survey. I joke with my uro
that he is "Barber Approved". Not a bad idea for scientific way to find
the good uro's.

The operation took 2 hours and I was up and walking the same day. I
stayed in the hospital 2 days and had the catheter in place for 10 days.

My Pathology report indicated negative margins and no sperm duct or
lymph node involvement which is good. But there was noted that I had 1
pinhole penetration. So not a home run but guarded optimism.

After the operation I took Se supplement for 2 years until the Gov tests
indicated they were not useful. I also take Vit D3 and get exposure
everyday to the Sun. My thoughts were to kill off any escaping cells.

A month before the operation I did the Kagel exercise 45 times a day to
see if I could get the bladder muscles in shape. I think that worked out
pretty good. The operation was easy and hopefully successful. My PSA
remains <0.1 since the operation.

My two concerns I had were erections and leakage. I am happy to say
after 2.5 years I never had any leakage from the day the catheter was
removed and my erections are fine. It did take 2 years to fully control
the erections. I think your nerve system get screwed up with the surgery.

Good Luck
Geo


Bill wrote:
> Mel, I gather you are faced w/ choosing which procedure you will have.
> The plumbing work that goes on is the same regardless of how you get
> to the pipes, and all of the effects and potential complications of
> RRP are present w/ robotic. The urethra has been cut in two and sewn
> back together (anastomosis) so you have to have a catheter to keep it
> open and allow it to heal w/o urine running through it. Surgeons who
> favor the robot claim that they can see better due to magnification
> and think their movements are more precise, resulting in better
> anastomoses, less blood loss, and more effective nerve sparing. From
> everything I've heard, robotic surgery may get you out of the hospital
> a day sooner and get the catheter out of you somewhat sooner.
> Personally, I had RRP and a very easy time of it. Every man who has
> had prostate surgery has ED to some extent; if they say they don't -
> they are lying. :-)
>
> Bill/Memphis

It looks like two of you encountered scheduling delays in getting your
catheters removed following surgery. For your next catheter, or for any
guys here who haven't had surgery yet, take a lesson from guys who
catheterize themselves routinely and from those who weren't about to
wait one extra medically unnecessarily day: DIY.

As your medically-determined catheter removal date approaches, ask your
doctor or nurse how to remove your catheter in case they're too busy. It
takes 60 seconds, is as easy as taking a leak, and FEELS about like
taking a leak. It's not worth walking across the street to have someone
else do it. In fact, the very experienced (OK, middle-aged) ER nurse who
removed mine when it plugged hurt me, whereas DIY was absolutely
comfortable. He yanked, I gently pulled.

I'm not qualified to tell you how to do it, so will deliberately obscure
the details, but it's as easy as 1, 2, 3.
1. Snip this.
2. Verify that.
3. Gently pull the tube out.

Clipping a toenail requires more work and hurts more.

I.P.

"Geo" <Geo@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:h85rue$b28$1@news.eternal-september.org...
: Mel,
: I'm one of those folks that has never responded to this newsgroup
: before. I had an Open RP in 2007 with excellent outcome.

Welcome to the non-lurkers, Geo!

--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA undetectable since; last checked on 06/04/09
Illegitimati non carborundum

If you're not to easily upset and are the curious type go to orlive.com, and
you can watch both types of surgery and then make up your mind.
It helped me to decide.
Ron


"MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net> wrote in message
news:h847kv$nn3$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
> incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
> surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?
>
> Mel
>

Thanks for all your responses.

Actually, I am not yet faced with such a decision.
I had a sudden spike in my PSA (from 2.97 to 4.01).

We will re-do the PSA in October. If it doesn't improve I will get on
antibiotics and try it again in a month.

If there is no improvement I would guess it is biopsy time.

So, as you can see, I am trying to research the possibilities now, when I am
worried, but not in a state of shock.

I once checked things out 3 years ago. At that time, IMRT would have been my
treatment of choice. But my current thinking would be surgery. If surgery,
it seems totally clear to me that the Da Vinci procedure is a better way to
go. For some reason I am not that concerned about ED (maybe I should be). I
am concerned about incontinence, but I guess one learns to wear the pads and
live with it (and it sounds like it would probably be temporary).

Mel


"Ron" <rgf231@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:Mtxpm.21082$ec2.17585@newsfe13.iad...
> If you're not to easily upset and are the curious type go to orlive.com,
> and you can watch both types of surgery and then make up your mind.
> It helped me to decide.
> Ron
>
>
> "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net> wrote in message
> news:h847kv$nn3$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
>> incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
>> surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?
>>
>> Mel
>>
>
>

Mel,
For what it's worth I'm an engineer not a doctor. I built an algorithm
to look at my PSA scores vs time to see if I had Pc. My scores went back
20+ years. My case had both ups and downs in the PSA like yours. So
seeing the signal in the noise was the issue. The model in my case said
the cancer started in 2000 and had a 40% growth rate. I had no symptoms,
DREs all good, even Ultrasound good, just the PSA behaving erratically
like yours.

I ran your PSA on my model and I suggests you should do the biopsy
sooner than later. Your case shows steady growth from the earliest data
point. A biopsy is only way you can be sure.

My biopsy using novacane was easy. The operation was also no problem.
Biggest problem was I had erections at night with the catheter. So used
lots of slippery stuff to keep things moving. Not a bad problem to have
but I was a little tender after 10 days and I was ready to get the
catheter out even if I did it myself. I have been water tight from that
date on.

Above all get a good Uro with a lot of experience for this operation.
The Robot is like a game machine. Good visibility but no touch. The Open
RP has the same outcome odds and my Uro had 30 years doing this
operation with good outcomes. I would not expect my Uro to be good at
game machines. My operation only took 2 hours so that's about as fast as
it gets robot included.

Again Best of Luck and I hope all goes well.
Geo

MZB wrote:
> Thanks for all your responses.
>
> Actually, I am not yet faced with such a decision.
> I had a sudden spike in my PSA (from 2.97 to 4.01).
>
> We will re-do the PSA in October. If it doesn't improve I will get on
> antibiotics and try it again in a month.
>
> If there is no improvement I would guess it is biopsy time.
>
> So, as you can see, I am trying to research the possibilities now, when I am
> worried, but not in a state of shock.
>
> I once checked things out 3 years ago. At that time, IMRT would have been my
> treatment of choice. But my current thinking would be surgery. If surgery,
> it seems totally clear to me that the Da Vinci procedure is a better way to
> go. For some reason I am not that concerned about ED (maybe I should be). I
> am concerned about incontinence, but I guess one learns to wear the pads and
> live with it (and it sounds like it would probably be temporary).
>
> Mel
>
>
> "Ron" <rgf231@yahoo.net> wrote in message
> news:Mtxpm.21082$ec2.17585@newsfe13.iad...
>> If you're not to easily upset and are the curious type go to orlive.com,
>> and you can watch both types of surgery and then make up your mind.
>> It helped me to decide.
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net> wrote in message
>> news:h847kv$nn3$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
>>> incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
>>> surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?
>>>
>>> Mel
>>>
>>
>
>

On 2009-09-08, MZB <moo@noway.prudigy.net> wrote:
> What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
> incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
> surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?
>
> Mel
>
>

Since I've been following this group for about a year, starting around the
time I got my diagnosis of PCa, I've only lurked. However, since MZB is
asking for info on something for which I have direct experience, I figure it's
time to de-cloak and tell of my experience.

Starting about 4 years ago, I began getting my PSA checked every 6 months or
so. Since I was having progressively greater difficulty urinating, I went to a
uro that my PCP recommended. With my PSA increasing slowly but steadily to
around 16, he told me that, although he could feel that my prostate is
significantly enlarged, the PSA rise might be due as well to cancer, and that
the only way to find out was a biopsy. After undergoing the biopsy(which was
a bit painful, but nothing I couldn't handle), the pathologist determined that
11 of the 12 samples were normal, but couldn't quite determine what kind of
cells were in the 12th sample. It was sent off to Johns Hopkins and they
couldn't figure it out, either. As a result, I was scheduled for a second
biopsy in 6 months. All the samples from that one were normal. My uro
started me on Proscar, and, over the next 3 years, my PSA slowly came down.

In June of 2008, I had my annual physical. When the PSA result came back, it
showed quite a jump from the one 6 months before. When I went to see the uro,
he told me to stop taking the Proscar for 6 weeks then test again. After that
period, my PSA was up to 20. Of course, this meant it was time for another
biopsy, and that one showed PCA, Gleason 8. After getting all smart about PCA
from this group, publications, web sites, surgeons and radiation oncologists,
I decided to have a robotic prosatatectomy. I decided this for several
reasons:
First, I realized that surgery is the only technique by which the actual
severity of the cancer can be determined. Removing the prostate allows the
sugeon to see if the capsule is breached and pathologist to see the if it's
spread to the lymph nodes and seminal vesicles. After the surgery I would
have a much better idea of what I was facing;
Second, IMRT would take over 8 weeks of daily radiation sessions, and, at the
end, I still wouldn't know the nature of the cancer I have. Brachytherapy
wasn't considered, since the stats for my age, PSA and Gleason score showed
that the technique would have a much lower 5 year survival chance that either
surgery or radiation;
Third, I wanted to go with the DaVinci surgery for all the usual reasons,
mostly quick reovery. I have a friend who underwent the RRP procedure and it
took him a month to get back on his feet.

After all of the foofraw of selecting a modality and a surgeon and hospital
had been settled, I simply waited until my surgery date, Jan. 31 of this year.
I was fortunate that the surgeon worked out of a local hospital, so no
problems were involved with travel and accomodations. The procedure itself
was a piece of cake. They simply put me under and 3 hours later I woke up in
the recovery room with 5 extra holes in my belly, one of which was at the top
of my navel. That was where they took the prostate out. It was definitely
oversize at 60 gms. One of the holes was used for drainage of the wounds.
The others were stitched closed and bandaged. I had almost no pain from the
cuts themselves. I also had a Foley catheter in me, where it would remain for
10 days. Having that thing in me was definitely the most unpleasant part of
the whold procedure, as almost any guy who has undergone prostate surgery will
tell you. The nursing staff had me up and about the following morning, and I
was discharged that afternoon. I mostly hung around the house for the next
week and a half, until it was time to go to the surgeon and get the Foley out.
What a relief! After that, I wore diapers for a couple of weeks, since I had
almost no control over my bladder, although at night I had almost no leakage
at all. Withing about 3 weeks, I began wearing heavy pads in my shorts, which
I found much more liberating. I was still draining quite heavily, so when I
went out, I usually had to carry one or two extra pads with me. This went on
or about 3 months and around May, the bladder sphincter seemed to getting some
competence back, so I started wearing lighter pads. At this point, about 7
months out, I'm still wearing light pads, mainly because I have occasional
stress incontinence. It's getting less frequent, so I hope to be able to do
without them entirely in a few months.

After a couple of weeks, the pathology report came back, showing that my
Gleason score was actually 9, the cancer wasn't in my lymph nodes, but had
spread to my seminal vesicles, and that, yes, the capsule had been breached.
This necessitated treating me with the two options I wanted to avoid: IMRT and
ADT. So, I've spent the Summer going in to the hospital 5 days a week and
getting zapped by their X-ray machine. I just finished up last week. Also, I
go to my uro once a month for my ADT shot. How long that will keep up, I
don't know, but he keeps saying that current guidelines recommend shots for 2
years to have the best chance of eliminating the bastard. Main side effect is
hot flushes, several times a day. Unpleasant, but bearable. The only other
thing I worry about re. the shots is potential osteoporosis if they go on for
a while, which means I will have to join my wife in using Actonel or Fosamax.
My last PSA, done in June, was <0.1, which gives me hope that very little, if
any, of the cancer hung around, but, since getting rid of PCa is always a crap
shoot, I figure my best odds come from putting up with all the radiation and
hormone deprivation.

To focus in on your original question a bit more, here's what you can expect
if you go with the DaVinci surgery:

1. You'll have very little postoperative pain from the surgery itself and
you'll be moving around within a day. By the end of the week, your mobility
should be normal;

2. You can expect to have other kinds of pain for a while -
you'll have sticking pains and shooting pains in your penis and bladder area
for a couple of months. The very bottom of your body, the perineum, will be
sore as hell for several months, so much so that it will be difficult for you
to stand for a long time and you'll need something soft to sit on. As you
heal, all of these pains will go away, hopefully in no more than 2 months;

3. You will have incontinence. How long it will last is impossible to say in
advance, since the duration of it depends to a great extent on how much of the
bladder sphincter is removed, and how much irritation the bladder nerves
undergo as a result of the surgery;

4. You will have ED. Again, how long it will last and how severe it will be
is impossible to say in advance. However, using the DaVinci seems to allow
the surgeon to do a good job of sparing the nerves, which translates into
better odds for restoring function. In my case, needing to have ADT messes up
the whole ED picture for me, so I won't know how much function I retain until
some time after my last shot;

That's about it. I found that the only really annoying aspect of the surgery
over the first few months was the incontinence. Fortunately, that's improved
enough that I now wear the pads more as a security blanket than because I need
them badly. I'm sure I've forgotten to include some things of interest, but
this message is long enough already.


W.

Hello, Mel:

I had a LRP at Johns Hopkins in November of 2006. I struggle with ED
and incontinence a bit, but my PSAs remain low.

I have two thoughts to share about outcomes:

1. tumor location plays a role, even though the entire prostate is
coming out. Going into the surgery, my doc advised me that because of
tumor location, it was very likely that he would have to 'cut wide' as
he put it, and that I may not have both nerves as a result. This is
in fact what happened, and after three years, my erections are still
hit-and-miss. Also, I suspect that because the tumor was located so
near one of the sphincters, that the geometry of it all was messed up
and that's why I continue to have stress incontinence no matter how
many Kegels I do.

2. One thing that I've wondered about is whether anyone else has had
hernias following LRP or RLRP. JH has contacted me once or twice,
asking if I've noticed any post-op hernias. I have a hernia that
seemed to start up not too long after the surgery, but it was distant
from any of the incisions. What I've heard was that because the doc
inflates the abdomen a bit, the wall can weaken in remote spots.

Having said all that ... given the PCa, it's been all worth it and I
would not have changed a thing about my treatment. The ED is minor;
the stress incontinence requires one Tena pad per day, and I'll
probably get the hernia repaired later this year.
--charlie

That's quite a testimonial, W. Welcome to the NG (and the club for which no
one every applied).

"watcher" <watcher@news.netaxs.com> wrote in message
news:slrnhadpne.7bp.watcher@iceland.freeshell.org. ..
: On 2009-09-08, MZB <moo@noway.prudigy.net> wrote:
: > What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
: > incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
: > surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?
: >
: > Mel
: >
: >
:
: Since I've been following this group for about a year, starting around the
: time I got my diagnosis of PCa, I've only lurked. However, since MZB is
: asking for info on something for which I have direct experience, I figure
it's
: time to de-cloak and tell of my experience.
:
: Starting about 4 years ago, I began getting my PSA checked every 6 months
or
: so. Since I was having progressively greater difficulty urinating, I went
to a
: uro that my PCP recommended. With my PSA increasing slowly but steadily to
: around 16, he told me that, although he could feel that my prostate is
: significantly enlarged, the PSA rise might be due as well to cancer, and
that
: the only way to find out was a biopsy. After undergoing the biopsy(which
was
: a bit painful, but nothing I couldn't handle), the pathologist determined
that
: 11 of the 12 samples were normal, but couldn't quite determine what kind
of
: cells were in the 12th sample. It was sent off to Johns Hopkins and they
: couldn't figure it out, either. As a result, I was scheduled for a second
: biopsy in 6 months. All the samples from that one were normal. My uro
: started me on Proscar, and, over the next 3 years, my PSA slowly came
down.
:
: In June of 2008, I had my annual physical. When the PSA result came back,
it
: showed quite a jump from the one 6 months before. When I went to see the
uro,
: he told me to stop taking the Proscar for 6 weeks then test again. After
that
: period, my PSA was up to 20. Of course, this meant it was time for
another
: biopsy, and that one showed PCA, Gleason 8. After getting all smart about
PCA
: from this group, publications, web sites, surgeons and radiation
oncologists,
: I decided to have a robotic prosatatectomy. I decided this for several
: reasons:
: First, I realized that surgery is the only technique by which the actual
: severity of the cancer can be determined. Removing the prostate allows
the
: sugeon to see if the capsule is breached and pathologist to see the if
it's
: spread to the lymph nodes and seminal vesicles. After the surgery I would
: have a much better idea of what I was facing;
: Second, IMRT would take over 8 weeks of daily radiation sessions, and, at
the
: end, I still wouldn't know the nature of the cancer I have. Brachytherapy
: wasn't considered, since the stats for my age, PSA and Gleason score
showed
: that the technique would have a much lower 5 year survival chance that
either
: surgery or radiation;
: Third, I wanted to go with the DaVinci surgery for all the usual reasons,
: mostly quick reovery. I have a friend who underwent the RRP procedure and
it
: took him a month to get back on his feet.
:
: After all of the foofraw of selecting a modality and a surgeon and
hospital
: had been settled, I simply waited until my surgery date, Jan. 31 of this
year.
: I was fortunate that the surgeon worked out of a local hospital, so no
: problems were involved with travel and accomodations. The procedure
itself
: was a piece of cake. They simply put me under and 3 hours later I woke up
in
: the recovery room with 5 extra holes in my belly, one of which was at the
top
: of my navel. That was where they took the prostate out. It was
definitely
: oversize at 60 gms. One of the holes was used for drainage of the wounds.
: The others were stitched closed and bandaged. I had almost no pain from
the
: cuts themselves. I also had a Foley catheter in me, where it would remain
for
: 10 days. Having that thing in me was definitely the most unpleasant part
of
: the whold procedure, as almost any guy who has undergone prostate surgery
will
: tell you. The nursing staff had me up and about the following morning,
and I
: was discharged that afternoon. I mostly hung around the house for the
next
: week and a half, until it was time to go to the surgeon and get the Foley
out.
: What a relief! After that, I wore diapers for a couple of weeks, since I
had
: almost no control over my bladder, although at night I had almost no
leakage
: at all. Withing about 3 weeks, I began wearing heavy pads in my shorts,
which
: I found much more liberating. I was still draining quite heavily, so when
I
: went out, I usually had to carry one or two extra pads with me. This
went on
: or about 3 months and around May, the bladder sphincter seemed to getting
some
: competence back, so I started wearing lighter pads. At this point, about
7
: months out, I'm still wearing light pads, mainly because I have occasional
: stress incontinence. It's getting less frequent, so I hope to be able to
do
: without them entirely in a few months.
:
: After a couple of weeks, the pathology report came back, showing that my
: Gleason score was actually 9, the cancer wasn't in my lymph nodes, but had
: spread to my seminal vesicles, and that, yes, the capsule had been
breached.
: This necessitated treating me with the two options I wanted to avoid: IMRT
and
: ADT. So, I've spent the Summer going in to the hospital 5 days a week and
: getting zapped by their X-ray machine. I just finished up last week.
Also, I
: go to my uro once a month for my ADT shot. How long that will keep up, I
: don't know, but he keeps saying that current guidelines recommend shots
for 2
: years to have the best chance of eliminating the bastard. Main side effect
is
: hot flushes, several times a day. Unpleasant, but bearable. The only
other
: thing I worry about re. the shots is potential osteoporosis if they go on
for
: a while, which means I will have to join my wife in using Actonel or
Fosamax.
: My last PSA, done in June, was <0.1, which gives me hope that very little,
if
: any, of the cancer hung around, but, since getting rid of PCa is always a
crap
: shoot, I figure my best odds come from putting up with all the radiation
and
: hormone deprivation.
:
: To focus in on your original question a bit more, here's what you can
expect
: if you go with the DaVinci surgery:
:
: 1. You'll have very little postoperative pain from the surgery itself and
: you'll be moving around within a day. By the end of the week, your
mobility
: should be normal;
:
: 2. You can expect to have other kinds of pain for a while -
: you'll have sticking pains and shooting pains in your penis and bladder
area
: for a couple of months. The very bottom of your body, the perineum, will
be
: sore as hell for several months, so much so that it will be difficult for
you
: to stand for a long time and you'll need something soft to sit on. As you
: heal, all of these pains will go away, hopefully in no more than 2 months;
:
: 3. You will have incontinence. How long it will last is impossible to say
in
: advance, since the duration of it depends to a great extent on how much of
the
: bladder sphincter is removed, and how much irritation the bladder nerves
: undergo as a result of the surgery;
:
: 4. You will have ED. Again, how long it will last and how severe it will
be
: is impossible to say in advance. However, using the DaVinci seems to
allow
: the surgeon to do a good job of sparing the nerves, which translates into
: better odds for restoring function. In my case, needing to have ADT
messes up
: the whole ED picture for me, so I won't know how much function I retain
until
: some time after my last shot;
:
: That's about it. I found that the only really annoying aspect of the
surgery
: over the first few months was the incontinence. Fortunately, that's
improved
: enough that I now wear the pads more as a security blanket than because I
need
: them badly. I'm sure I've forgotten to include some things of interest,
but
: this message is long enough already.
:
:
: W.


--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA undetectable since; last checked on 06/04/09
Illegitimati non carborundum

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 23:20:42 +0000, watcher wrote:

> On 2009-09-08, MZB <moo@noway.prudigy.net> wrote:
>> What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
>> incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
>> surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?
>>
>> Mel
>>
>>
>>
> Since I've been following this group for about a year, starting around
> the time I got my diagnosis of PCa, I've only lurked. However, since
> MZB is asking for info on something for which I have direct experience,
> I figure it's time to de-cloak and tell of my experience.
>
......snip..........
>
> That's about it. I found that the only really annoying aspect of the
> surgery over the first few months was the incontinence. Fortunately,
> that's improved enough that I now wear the pads more as a security
> blanket than because I need them badly. I'm sure I've forgotten to
> include some things of interest, but this message is long enough
> already.
>
>
> W.

Very informative post, W. Thanks for sharing your history and
experiences with the rest of us. And welcome to the group that no one
wants to join.

Vince


--
PSA 4.73 07/2000 @ 48
Biopsy 07/2000 G7 (3+4)
RRP 09/2000 @ 49 G7 (3+4), T2b Neg margins
PSA < 0.1 for 14 months post op
PSA .8 .8 .6 .8 04/2008 thru 12/2008
IMRT 02/2009 - 04/2009, 38 treatments, 60.8 Gy total
PSA .02 05/18/09

George:

Thanks for your input. The fact is most PSA's tend to go up with time as we
age. Is this not true?

I have been dx. with BPH and chronic prostatitis (I'm a tad skeptical of the
latter and totally convinced of the former). Again, both of these are also
reasons (perhaps more likely) of my PSA tendencies.

I guess I could put the data points into my calculator and determine if we
have growth that is linear, quadratic, or exponential (it's clearly not
logarithmic). I'm not sure how useful those results will be. It sure will
not determine anything. I gather you did yours after you were dx. with PC
and then kind of decided where things took off?

Needless to say, the above might also be wishful thinking on my part.

I really don't want to rush into a biopsy, but I also don't want to stick my
head in the sand (that could be a fatal error). From my reading, it does
seem to be standard practice to repeat a PSA after an unusual uptick in a
reading. Hence, I'll anxiously await the October PSA score. My plan after
that is to get on antibiotics and repeat the PSA a month to 6 weeks later
(if the October results are no better than my last data point). However, I
did make appointments with two urologists, scheduled just after the October
PSA test. One is at the Univ. of Mich. and the other is a local urologist
who seems to have a good reputation. They may well suggest that I dispense
with the antibiotic idea and get a biopsy. I will listen to their advice.

Mel



"Geo" <Geo@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:h86hp3$423$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Mel,
> For what it's worth I'm an engineer not a doctor. I built an algorithm to
> look at my PSA scores vs time to see if I had Pc. My scores went back 20+
> years. My case had both ups and downs in the PSA like yours. So seeing the
> signal in the noise was the issue. The model in my case said the cancer
> started in 2000 and had a 40% growth rate. I had no symptoms, DREs all
> good, even Ultrasound good, just the PSA behaving erratically like yours.
>
> I ran your PSA on my model and I suggests you should do the biopsy sooner
> than later. Your case shows steady growth from the earliest data point. A
> biopsy is only way you can be sure.
>
> My biopsy using novacane was easy. The operation was also no problem.
> Biggest problem was I had erections at night with the catheter. So used
> lots of slippery stuff to keep things moving. Not a bad problem to have
> but I was a little tender after 10 days and I was ready to get the
> catheter out even if I did it myself. I have been water tight from that
> date on.
>
> Above all get a good Uro with a lot of experience for this operation. The
> Robot is like a game machine. Good visibility but no touch. The Open RP
> has the same outcome odds and my Uro had 30 years doing this operation
> with good outcomes. I would not expect my Uro to be good at game machines.
> My operation only took 2 hours so that's about as fast as it gets robot
> included.
>
> Again Best of Luck and I hope all goes well.
> Geo
>
> MZB wrote:
>> Thanks for all your responses.
>>
>> Actually, I am not yet faced with such a decision.
>> I had a sudden spike in my PSA (from 2.97 to 4.01).
>>
>> We will re-do the PSA in October. If it doesn't improve I will get on
>> antibiotics and try it again in a month.
>>
>> If there is no improvement I would guess it is biopsy time.
>>
>> So, as you can see, I am trying to research the possibilities now, when I
>> am worried, but not in a state of shock.
>>
>> I once checked things out 3 years ago. At that time, IMRT would have been
>> my treatment of choice. But my current thinking would be surgery. If
>> surgery, it seems totally clear to me that the Da Vinci procedure is a
>> better way to go. For some reason I am not that concerned about ED (maybe
>> I should be). I am concerned about incontinence, but I guess one learns
>> to wear the pads and live with it (and it sounds like it would probably
>> be temporary).
>>
>> Mel
>>
>>
>> "Ron" <rgf231@yahoo.net> wrote in message
>> news:Mtxpm.21082$ec2.17585@newsfe13.iad...
>>> If you're not to easily upset and are the curious type go to orlive.com,
>>> and you can watch both types of surgery and then make up your mind.
>>> It helped me to decide.
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>
>>> "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:h847kv$nn3$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
>>>> incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
>>>> surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?
>>>>
>>>> Mel
>>>>
>>>
>>

Hello again, Mel:

The timeline you're suggesting sounds pretty typical: PSA, second
PSA, antibiotic series, another PSA, then the biopsy if the PSA has
not dropped. That rules out prostatitiis. That's what my uros had me
go through, and I think I've read elsewhere how that's a standard
course on the way to diagnosis.

But I recall that the second or third PSA test looked at the
percentage of 'free' PSA. Has your doc discussed this with you? I
recall that this percentage is a diagnostic tool that can assist in
the decision to biopsy or not. The lower the percentage is, the more
likely it's PCa and not BPH or prostatitis.

I only mention free PSA because I didn't see it in the thread earlier,
but I might have missed something.

Good luck.

--charlie

I meant to add that my next PSA test will indeed be the FREE PSA.

Mel
"chasjac" <chazjac@live.com> wrote in message
news:7a593ca4-215e-4607-b6b5-0943fa5b07cc@z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> Hello again, Mel:
>
> The timeline you're suggesting sounds pretty typical: PSA, second
> PSA, antibiotic series, another PSA, then the biopsy if the PSA has
> not dropped. That rules out prostatitiis. That's what my uros had me
> go through, and I think I've read elsewhere how that's a standard
> course on the way to diagnosis.
>
> But I recall that the second or third PSA test looked at the
> percentage of 'free' PSA. Has your doc discussed this with you? I
> recall that this percentage is a diagnostic tool that can assist in
> the decision to biopsy or not. The lower the percentage is, the more
> likely it's PCa and not BPH or prostatitis.
>
> I only mention free PSA because I didn't see it in the thread earlier,
> but I might have missed something.
>
> Good luck.
>
> --charlie

"MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net> wrote in message
news:h88nih$31i$1@news.eternal-september.org...

: Thanks for your input. The fact is most PSA's tend to go up with time as
we
: age. Is this not true?

The "fact" is that your prostate was miniscule as a child. It started to
grow at puberty and got to it's 'normal adult size' at about 20. At about
40, it started growing again. Look at it as if it were a PSA producing
machine and as the machine gets larger, the PSA output is greater.


: I have been dx. with BPH and chronic prostatitis (I'm a tad skeptical of
the
: latter and totally convinced of the former). Again, both of these are also
: reasons (perhaps more likely) of my PSA tendencies.

BPH and prostatitis, whether to do inflamation or infection, not only
sometime enlarge the prostate, therefore produce more PSA, but due to
constriction common with growth, the fibers keeping the PSA begin to break
down and more PSA leaks into the blood stream. Keep in mind, PSA is
designed to stay in the prostate. The blood test only tests for that which
leaked out of the prostate. So, not only is a larger prostate producing
more PSA, a greater percentage of PSA is leaking out and showing up in your
blood tests.


: I really don't want to rush into a biopsy, but I also don't want to stick
my
: head in the sand (that could be a fatal error). From my reading, it does
: seem to be standard practice to repeat a PSA after an unusual uptick in a
: reading. Hence, I'll anxiously await the October PSA score. My plan after
: that is to get on antibiotics and repeat the PSA a month to 6 weeks later
: (if the October results are no better than my last data point).

And even then, you will be a gray area. I think it was Scardino who
discussed this "gray area" between 4.0 and 10.0 and asked (and answered) the
question, "then why do we get a biopsy?" The answer, as I recall, was,
"because cancer is such a devastating thing, we don't want to miss it even
if it's not likely."

: They may well suggest that I dispense
: with the antibiotic idea and get a biopsy. I will listen to their advice.

I still can't believe no one has given you an antibiotic. If after that
your PSA drops like a rock, you will have elminated all question. If not,
you'll have elminated 25 to 33.3 percent of the possibilities.

--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA undetectable since; last checked on 06/04/09
Illegitimati non carborundum

"Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:h8atot$usc$1@news.eternal-september.org...
: "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net> wrote in message
: news:h88nih$31i$1@news.eternal-september.org...

I REALLY NEED TO READ WHAT I WRITE BEFORE I HIT 'SEND'

:: I have been dx. with BPH and chronic prostatitis (I'm a tad skeptical of
: the
:: latter and totally convinced of the former). Again, both of these are
also
:: reasons (perhaps more likely) of my PSA tendencies.
:
: BPH and prostatitis, whether to do inflamation or infection, not only
: sometime enlarge the prostate, therefore produce more PSA, but due to
: constriction common with growth, the fibers keeping the PSA begin to break
: down and more PSA leaks into the blood stream. Keep in mind, PSA is
: designed to stay in the prostate. The blood test only tests for that
which
: leaked out of the prostate. So, not only is a larger prostate producing
: more PSA, a greater percentage of PSA is leaking out and showing up in
your
: blood tests.

THIS SHOULD READ:

BPH and prostatis, whether DUE TO inflamation or infection, not only
sometimes enlarge the prostate, therefore produce more PSA. But, due to the
constriction common with growth OF THE PROSTATE, the BARRIER keeping the PSA
IN THE PROSTATE, begins to break down and more PSA leakes into the blood
stream. Keep in mind, PSA is designed to stay in the prostate. The blood
test only tests for that which leaked out of the prostate. So, not only is
a larger prostate producing more PSA, IF IT IS ENLARGED, a greater
percentage of PSA is leaking out and showing up in your blood tests.

Thanks Steve. Your meaning was and is quite clear.

Mel
"Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:h8auca$473$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:h8atot$usc$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> : "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net> wrote in message
> : news:h88nih$31i$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> I REALLY NEED TO READ WHAT I WRITE BEFORE I HIT 'SEND'
>
> :: I have been dx. with BPH and chronic prostatitis (I'm a tad skeptical
> of
> : the
> :: latter and totally convinced of the former). Again, both of these are
> also
> :: reasons (perhaps more likely) of my PSA tendencies.
> :
> : BPH and prostatitis, whether to do inflamation or infection, not only
> : sometime enlarge the prostate, therefore produce more PSA, but due to
> : constriction common with growth, the fibers keeping the PSA begin to
> break
> : down and more PSA leaks into the blood stream. Keep in mind, PSA is
> : designed to stay in the prostate. The blood test only tests for that
> which
> : leaked out of the prostate. So, not only is a larger prostate producing
> : more PSA, a greater percentage of PSA is leaking out and showing up in
> your
> : blood tests.
>
> THIS SHOULD READ:
>
> BPH and prostatis, whether DUE TO inflamation or infection, not only
> sometimes enlarge the prostate, therefore produce more PSA. But, due to
> the
> constriction common with growth OF THE PROSTATE, the BARRIER keeping the
> PSA
> IN THE PROSTATE, begins to break down and more PSA leakes into the blood
> stream. Keep in mind, PSA is designed to stay in the prostate. The blood
> test only tests for that which leaked out of the prostate. So, not only
> is
> a larger prostate producing more PSA, IF IT IS ENLARGED, a greater
> percentage of PSA is leaking out and showing up in your blood tests.
>
>

On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:14:23 -0400, "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net>
wrote:

>What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
>incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
>surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?
>
>Mel
>

Hi Mel,

I had my RLRP in June of 2007. I opted for a surgeon that had
hundreds of procedures under his belt. For the surgery I requested an
antiemedic to combat post op nausea from anesthesia. This helped me
immensely.

The next morning my doctor had me walk one mile on the hospital's
nurse unit (quite a few laps) and was adamant that this was the most
importnat thing I could do to help start my recovery.

I went home that afternoon and started walking a mile a day
thereafter. During that timeframe, the worst issue for me was that
damn catheter. I really hated that tube and bag. Unfortunately I think
I started with solid foods too soon and I had issues getting my bowels
started again. Part of it may have been all the pills I was prescribed
as well (Torodol, Viagra, Ibuprofen, Famotidine, amongst others...)

Ten days after, I had the catheter removed and filled up a diaper on
the 90 minute ride home without ever feeling a thing (scared the shit
out of me even though I was expecting it). Within two weeks I was pad
free. During the immediate months, I had two incidents where I could
not control my bowels. I assume that the muscles are weekend...

Impotency last for two months and then I got a shot of trimix and some
Cialis and that got me back in the game. Two plus years out, I take a
Cialis on average once a month just to be safe, I may not need it
though.

The two side effects that I deal with today are:

a] Back issues - I never had any back issues prior to the procedure
but since that time, I have had sciatica and lower back problems when
I over exert my self. I am convinced that whatever goes on during that
procedure did something to my back.

b] Urinary Issues - Occasionally, I go through spells where it is
difficult to urinate with a good flow. There does not seem to be any
rhyme or reason to it and two years out it is a lot less frequent and
less intense than it was but it is a side effect. I have never
requested any medication to assist with it.

Hope this helps and that you don't have to go down the same path.

--
PSA @ 45 yrs. = 4.7 02/06/2007
Biopsy 03/16/2007 G7(3+4),T1c
RLRP 06/12/2007 G7(3+4),T2cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA 07/16/2007 = <0.1
PSA 09/12/2007 = <0.1
PSA 12/18/2007 = <0.1
PSA 03/12/2008 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2008 = <0.1
PSA 12/12/2008 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2009 = <0.1

On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:14:23 -0400, "MZB" <moo@noway.prudigy.net>
wrote:

>What have been the effects (eg: ED, urinary incontinence, any bowel
>incontinence, etc.). Also, how long did it take you to recover from the
>surgery? Also, did you have to wear a catheter? If so, for how long?
>
>Mel
>
A friend of mine had it done about 3 years ago at age 63. Even the
doc said he had exceptionally good results. He was continent from the
time the catheter was removed. With a little help from vitamin V, Mr.
Happy was back in action after a bit more than a year. The procedure
was done at Hackensack University Medical Center by Dr. Esposito.