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TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads
  1. #1
    Jim Hand Guest

    Default TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    I almost hate to post this in view of the more serious things we deal
    with routinely on this forum, but its bothering me and I haven't been
    able to get an answer. I'm approaching three years post Da Vinci and
    still testing <0.01 on PSA, except for one reading about eleven months
    ago that was an apparent error. I never recovered erectile function
    or complete continence...and the latter prompts my question.

    Since I also have a joint replacement I always set off the metal
    detector at the airport security check. In the past, this has always
    been resolved with a wand and the old pat down procedure. Now, I
    guess I'll be treated to the new enhanced pat down procedure. I wear
    a male pad during the day to keep from wetting my pants. When the TSA
    "goon" can't feel my testicles or penis due to the pad am I going to
    be invited to an actual strip search to remove or show them the pad?

    I think it would be particularly embarrassing to have to explain to
    traveling companions why I'm always treated so "specially". I might
    be willing to put up with this if I thought it actually enhanced the
    security of air travel but I believe this is strictly security theater
    since any terrorist would likely conceal a weapon in their anal cavity
    rather than externally. It seems we are always one step behind,
    addressing for the previous threat. While its profitable for some
    industries and for the TSA organization, I think its a feel-good
    exercise for the public that's gone awry.

    (Putting away the soapbox.)

  2. #2
    Steve Kramer Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    "Jim Hand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >I almost hate to post this in view of the more serious things we deal
    > with routinely on this forum, but its bothering me and I haven't been
    > able to get an answer. I'm approaching three years post Da Vinci and
    > still testing <0.01 on PSA, except for one reading about eleven months
    > ago that was an apparent error. I never recovered erectile function
    > or complete continence...and the latter prompts my question.
    >
    > Since I also have a joint replacement I always set off the metal
    > detector at the airport security check. In the past, this has always
    > been resolved with a wand and the old pat down procedure. Now, I
    > guess I'll be treated to the new enhanced pat down procedure. I wear
    > a male pad during the day to keep from wetting my pants. When the TSA
    > "goon" can't feel my testicles or penis due to the pad am I going to
    > be invited to an actual strip search to remove or show them the pad?
    >
    > I think it would be particularly embarrassing to have to explain to
    > traveling companions why I'm always treated so "specially". I might
    > be willing to put up with this if I thought it actually enhanced the
    > security of air travel but I believe this is strictly security theater
    > since any terrorist would likely conceal a weapon in their anal cavity
    > rather than externally. It seems we are always one step behind,
    > addressing for the previous threat. While its profitable for some
    > industries and for the TSA organization, I think its a feel-good
    > exercise for the public that's gone awry.
    >
    > (Putting away the soapbox.)


    It's a reasonable question and certainly within the realm of 'acceptable'
    concerns within this forum - in my opinion.

    (So, getting the soapbox back out...)

    It's also a reasonable question for all United States citizen within the
    United States. Terry vs. Ohio prevents agents of the government from
    patting you down unless the pat downer is reasonably suspicion that a crime
    has occurred AND reasonably suspicion that YOU committed the crime AND
    reasonably suspicion that YOU are armed. Every American who is patted down
    in an airport by the TSA, specifically BECAUSE they are a government agency,
    is a victim of a Civil Rights Violation.

    Furthermore, an agent of the government may not reach in to your clothing
    (according to case law that I cannot recall) nor compel you to a strip
    search or body cavity search unless he "feels" something that could be
    reasonably suspected to be a weapon or contraband. Your pad might feel like
    a quantity of drugs, but how could he possibly articulate that? Especially
    after you have mentioned that it is a pad. Pads and baggies of marijuana
    feel identical. I cannot imagine a weapon that your pad could feel like.
    Even C4 is much less pliable.

    That said, the TSA is an out of control organization and until stopped will
    continue to violate your constitutional rights.



  3. #3
    tarhoosier7 Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    On Nov 21, 1:35*pm, "Steve Kramer" <skra...@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
    > "Jim Hand" <jdh...@chartermi.net> wrote in message
    >
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    >
    > >I almost hate to post this in view of the more serious things we deal
    > > with routinely on this forum, but its bothering me and I haven't been
    > > able to get an answer. *I'm approaching three years post Da Vinci and
    > > still testing <0.01 on PSA, except for one reading about eleven months
    > > ago that was an apparent error. *I never recovered erectile function
    > > or complete continence...and the latter prompts my question.

    >
    > > Since I also have a joint replacement I always set off the metal
    > > detector at the airport security check. *In the past, this has always
    > > been resolved with a wand and the old pat down procedure. *Now, I
    > > guess I'll be treated to the new enhanced pat down procedure. *I wear
    > > a male pad during the day to keep from wetting my pants. *When the TSA
    > > "goon" can't feel my testicles or penis due to the pad am I going to
    > > be invited to an actual strip search to remove or show them the pad?

    >
    > > I think it would be particularly embarrassing to have to explain to
    > > traveling companions why I'm always treated so "specially". *I might
    > > be willing to put up with this if I thought it actually enhanced the
    > > security of air travel but I believe this is strictly security theater
    > > since any terrorist would likely conceal a weapon in their anal cavity
    > > rather than externally. *It seems we are always one step behind,
    > > addressing for the previous threat. *While its profitable for some
    > > industries and for the TSA organization, I think its a feel-good
    > > exercise for the public that's gone awry.

    >
    > > (Putting away the soapbox.)

    >
    > It's a reasonable question and certainly within the realm of 'acceptable'
    > concerns within this forum - in my opinion.
    >
    > (So, getting the soapbox back out...)
    >
    > It's also a reasonable question for all United States citizen within the
    > United States. *Terry vs. Ohio prevents agents of the government from
    > patting you down unless the pat downer is reasonably suspicion that a crime
    > has occurred AND reasonably suspicion that YOU committed the crime AND
    > reasonably suspicion that YOU are armed. *Every American who is patted down
    > in an airport by the TSA, specifically BECAUSE they are a government agency,
    > is a victim of a Civil Rights Violation.
    >
    > Furthermore, an agent of the government may not reach in to your clothing
    > (according to case law that I cannot recall) nor compel you to a strip
    > search or body cavity search unless he "feels" something that could be
    > reasonably suspected to be a weapon or contraband. *Your pad might feellike
    > a quantity of drugs, but how could he possibly articulate that? *Especially
    > after you have mentioned that it is a pad. *Pads and baggies of marijuana
    > feel identical. *I cannot imagine a weapon that your pad could feel like.
    > Even C4 is much less pliable.
    >
    > That said, the TSA is an out of control organization and until stopped will
    > continue to violate your constitutional rights.


    AMEN, Brother

  4. #4
    dbu, Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    In article
    <[email protected]>,
    tarhoosier7 <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Nov 21, 1:35*pm, "Steve Kramer" <skra...@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
    > > "Jim Hand" <jdh...@chartermi.net> wrote in message
    > >
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > >I almost hate to post this in view of the more serious things we deal
    > > > with routinely on this forum, but its bothering me and I haven't been
    > > > able to get an answer. *I'm approaching three years post Da Vinci and
    > > > still testing <0.01 on PSA, except for one reading about eleven months
    > > > ago that was an apparent error. *I never recovered erectile function
    > > > or complete continence...and the latter prompts my question.

    > >
    > > > Since I also have a joint replacement I always set off the metal
    > > > detector at the airport security check. *In the past, this has always
    > > > been resolved with a wand and the old pat down procedure. *Now, I
    > > > guess I'll be treated to the new enhanced pat down procedure. *I wear
    > > > a male pad during the day to keep from wetting my pants. *When the TSA
    > > > "goon" can't feel my testicles or penis due to the pad am I going to
    > > > be invited to an actual strip search to remove or show them the pad?

    > >
    > > > I think it would be particularly embarrassing to have to explain to
    > > > traveling companions why I'm always treated so "specially". *I might
    > > > be willing to put up with this if I thought it actually enhanced the
    > > > security of air travel but I believe this is strictly security theater
    > > > since any terrorist would likely conceal a weapon in their anal cavity
    > > > rather than externally. *It seems we are always one step behind,
    > > > addressing for the previous threat. *While its profitable for some
    > > > industries and for the TSA organization, I think its a feel-good
    > > > exercise for the public that's gone awry.

    > >
    > > > (Putting away the soapbox.)

    > >
    > > It's a reasonable question and certainly within the realm of 'acceptable'
    > > concerns within this forum - in my opinion.
    > >
    > > (So, getting the soapbox back out...)
    > >
    > > It's also a reasonable question for all United States citizen within the
    > > United States. *Terry vs. Ohio prevents agents of the government from
    > > patting you down unless the pat downer is reasonably suspicion that a crime
    > > has occurred AND reasonably suspicion that YOU committed the crime AND
    > > reasonably suspicion that YOU are armed. *Every American who is patted down
    > > in an airport by the TSA, specifically BECAUSE they are a government agency,
    > > is a victim of a Civil Rights Violation.
    > >
    > > Furthermore, an agent of the government may not reach in to your clothing
    > > (according to case law that I cannot recall) nor compel you to a strip
    > > search or body cavity search unless he "feels" something that could be
    > > reasonably suspected to be a weapon or contraband. *Your pad might feel like
    > > a quantity of drugs, but how could he possibly articulate that? *Especially
    > > after you have mentioned that it is a pad. *Pads and baggies of marijuana
    > > feel identical. *I cannot imagine a weapon that your pad could feel like.
    > > Even C4 is much less pliable.
    > >
    > > That said, the TSA is an out of control organization and until stopped will
    > > continue to violate your constitutional rights.

    >
    > AMEN, Brother


    While we have to protect the public from terrorists blowing up airplanes
    we also have to protect the rights of our innocent citizens, including
    little kids and old folks who ....blink, blink are obviously are not a
    threat, duh.

    It seems to me there might be a better way and I think I know what it
    is, politically as incorrect as it might be.

    Be damned the political correctness and let's go with the profiling!!

    I know what I would do if I were in charge.
    --


  5. #5
    I.P. Freely Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    Steve Kramer wrote:
    > It's also a reasonable question for all United States citizen within the
    > United States. Terry vs. Ohio prevents agents of the government from
    > patting you down unless the pat downer is reasonably suspicion that a crime
    > has occurred AND reasonably suspicion that YOU committed the crime AND
    > reasonably suspicion that YOU are armed. Every American who is patted down
    > in an airport by the TSA, specifically BECAUSE they are a government agency,
    > is a victim of a Civil Rights Violation.


    I'll bet that applies only to mandatory searches. We always have the
    option of driving.

    I.P.

  6. #6
    I.P. Freely Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    TSA screening has yet to catch one terrorist, as best as my quickie
    search reveals.

    I am listening as I type to a lady whose bladder cancer catheter was
    deliberately pulled out by screeners as they strip searched her with her
    panties around her ankles. Ditto a male caller later.

    I'm guessing the goons looking at scanner screens see so dang many
    private parts that their eyes glaze over way before their lunch break.
    Who cares?

    They have to have seen and/or felt millions of male and female pads by
    now. I got over caring who looks into my briefs the day after my
    surgery, when a great-looking blond woke me up pulling my sheets off to
    show my bloody, crusty, shriveled, stinking, purple toad to a whole
    gaggle of young strangers ... interns, I hope, and not paying voyeurs.
    Any TSA pervert who enjoys getting a whiff of my pad when I snap my
    waistband shut is welcome to it.

    Any passenger rude enough to ask why it took the TSA half an hour to
    clear me *deserves* a detailed and candid answer. Be careful what you
    ask for, as I'm chock full of "TMI".

    All that said, this administration and much of the American public may
    FINALLY *BEGIN* to recognize some of the impacts of political
    correctness. Profiling, whether it's based on ethnicity, behavior,
    travel history, point of origin, is much less intrusive than what's
    goiNg on in airports these days. Which is worse ... offending EVERYONE
    or offending a small percentage matching some profile?

    All it takes to get a bomb on board is strapping it on a woman wearing
    Muslim headgear. THEY GET TO PAT THEMSELVES DOWN, and only about the
    head and shoulders.

    How tough can it be to swallow a few ounces of high explosive and a
    trigger, and then just phone home at the right moment? I doubt even a
    drug dog will detect that.

    Overall, this is just another reason I'm glad I fly maybe once or
    twice a decade.

    I.P.

  7. #7
    Boothby171 Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    Can you imagine the police state if we ONLY focused on Muslim-looking
    travellers? What if you have some black guys who don't LOOK like
    Muslims, but are? Hell, let's search all the black guys now! Search
    all the East Indians. And it's so hard to tell arabs from Jews, just
    search them all!

    Just don't search the white guys, 'cause they're all OK.

    And what about white guys with beards? Just search the ones with
    scraggly beards. I'll tell you this--Movember would become a
    NIGHTMARE!

    And kids? Shall we NOT search 12 years old and younger? Plenty of
    pre-adolescents carrying automatic weapons outside the delicate
    borders of the United States, Britain, France, and other "civilized"
    countries. The MOMENT you stop searching 12 year olds, guess who
    becomes the new mule?

    This ALL assumes, of course, that there really is a continuing
    terrorist threat, and that it's not just a ploy of the Jews and alien
    Reptilians running the world under the secret New World Order/
    Illuminati programs (I;m kidding! There really isn't any New World
    Order. Trust me. You will remember nothing...)



    I assume there is still a real, though subdued, terrorist threat. I
    have absolutely NO idea how to defend against the larger, global
    aspect of the threat, let alone the specific aspect of it at the
    airports (and the train stations, bus depots, etc., etc.). Years ago,
    working for a government subcontractor, I had the pleasure of
    designing some anti-terrorist devices (defensive, rather than
    offensive; no good, gory stories, I'm afraid). All I can figure is
    that the good guys are still, somehow, doing something right, and the
    bad guys are still fairly stupid. If the terrorists got much smarter,
    they could be very, very difficult to stop. Fighting terrorism
    successfully HAS to take place behind the scenes, with good military
    intelligence. By the time you're worrying about someone bypassing a
    security gate at the airport, it's almost too late. But you STILL
    have to watch that gate, regardless.

    </soap box>

    > *tarhoosier7 <tarhoos...@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
    > > On Nov 21, 1:35 pm, "Steve Kramer" <skra...@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
    > > > "Jim Hand" <jdh...@chartermi.net> wrote in message

    >
    > > >news:[email protected]....

    >
    > > > >I almost hate to post this in view of the more serious things we deal
    > > > > with routinely on this forum, but its bothering me and I haven't been
    > > > > able to get an answer. I'm approaching three years post Da Vinci and
    > > > > still testing <0.01 on PSA, except for one reading about eleven months
    > > > > ago that was an apparent error. I never recovered erectile function
    > > > > or complete continence...and the latter prompts my question.

    >
    > > > > Since I also have a joint replacement I always set off the metal
    > > > > detector at the airport security check. In the past, this has always
    > > > > been resolved with a wand and the old pat down procedure. Now, I
    > > > > guess I'll be treated to the new enhanced pat down procedure. I wear
    > > > > a male pad during the day to keep from wetting my pants. When the TSA
    > > > > "goon" can't feel my testicles or penis due to the pad am I going to
    > > > > be invited to an actual strip search to remove or show them the pad?

    >
    > > > > I think it would be particularly embarrassing to have to explain to
    > > > > traveling companions why I'm always treated so "specially". I might
    > > > > be willing to put up with this if I thought it actually enhanced the
    > > > > security of air travel but I believe this is strictly security theater
    > > > > since any terrorist would likely conceal a weapon in their anal cavity
    > > > > rather than externally. It seems we are always one step behind,
    > > > > addressing for the previous threat. While its profitable for some
    > > > > industries and for the TSA organization, I think its a feel-good
    > > > > exercise for the public that's gone awry.

    >
    > > > > (Putting away the soapbox.)

    >
    > > > It's a reasonable question and certainly within the realm of 'acceptable'
    > > > concerns within this forum - in my opinion.

    >
    > > > (So, getting the soapbox back out...)

    >
    > > > It's also a reasonable question for all United States citizen within the
    > > > United States. Terry vs. Ohio prevents agents of the government from
    > > > patting you down unless the pat downer is reasonably suspicion that acrime
    > > > has occurred AND reasonably suspicion that YOU committed the crime AND
    > > > reasonably suspicion that YOU are armed. Every American who is patteddown
    > > > in an airport by the TSA, specifically BECAUSE they are a government agency,
    > > > is a victim of a Civil Rights Violation.

    >
    > > > Furthermore, an agent of the government may not reach in to your clothing
    > > > (according to case law that I cannot recall) nor compel you to a strip
    > > > search or body cavity search unless he "feels" something that could be
    > > > reasonably suspected to be a weapon or contraband. Your pad might feel like
    > > > a quantity of drugs, but how could he possibly articulate that? Especially
    > > > after you have mentioned that it is a pad. Pads and baggies of marijuana
    > > > feel identical. I cannot imagine a weapon that your pad could feel like.
    > > > Even C4 is much less pliable.

    >
    > > > That said, the TSA is an out of control organization and until stopped will
    > > > continue to violate your constitutional rights.

    >
    > > AMEN, Brother

    >
    > While we have to protect the public from terrorists blowing up airplanes
    > we also have to protect the rights of our innocent citizens, including
    > little kids and old folks who ....blink, blink are obviously are not a
    > threat, duh. *
    >
    > It seems to me there might be a better way and I think I know what it
    > is, politically as incorrect as it might be. *
    >
    > Be damned the political correctness and let's go with the profiling!!
    >
    > I know what I would do if I were in charge.
    > --



  8. #8
    Justin Thyme Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    Comment at the bottom.

    "Jim Hand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >I almost hate to post this in view of the more serious things we deal
    > with routinely on this forum, but its bothering me and I haven't been
    > able to get an answer. I'm approaching three years post Da Vinci and
    > still testing <0.01 on PSA, except for one reading about eleven months
    > ago that was an apparent error. I never recovered erectile function
    > or complete continence...and the latter prompts my question.
    >
    > Since I also have a joint replacement I always set off the metal
    > detector at the airport security check. In the past, this has always
    > been resolved with a wand and the old pat down procedure. Now, I
    > guess I'll be treated to the new enhanced pat down procedure. I wear
    > a male pad during the day to keep from wetting my pants. When the TSA
    > "goon" can't feel my testicles or penis due to the pad am I going to
    > be invited to an actual strip search to remove or show them the pad?
    >
    > I think it would be particularly embarrassing to have to explain to
    > traveling companions why I'm always treated so "specially". I might
    > be willing to put up with this if I thought it actually enhanced the
    > security of air travel but I believe this is strictly security theater
    > since any terrorist would likely conceal a weapon in their anal cavity
    > rather than externally. It seems we are always one step behind,
    > addressing for the previous threat. While its profitable for some
    > industries and for the TSA organization, I think its a feel-good
    > exercise for the public that's gone awry.
    >
    > (Putting away the soapbox.)


    I hardly fly at all any longer, but the idea of TSA screening just
    absolutely disgusts me. As a citizen of this country I am supposed to be
    presumed innocent unless or until proved otherwise. These invasive
    screenings make me establish my innocence, contrary to my fundamental
    rights. This is the Mexican justice system (I live in New Mexico) and
    should not be practiced here. I understand Israel profiles its travelers
    and I would support profiling here, too.

    Ken Bland



  9. #9
    Alan Meyer Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    I won't comment on the politics of all of this except to say that I
    agree with everyone else that the TSA is doing as much harm as good.

    However, on the specifics, I suggest that someone who has this problem
    should contact the TSA, explain the problem, and ask what will happen
    and whether any steps can be taken to make it less stressful and more
    straightforward.

    I remember many years ago, before the TSA nightmare began, there were
    other kinds of craziness. You couldn't take a laptop computer out of
    the country and bring it back in again unless you had a certificate from
    someone, I forget who, to prove that the computer you were bringing back
    was one you took out with you and therefore you don't owe any customs
    duty on it. To get the certificate you had to show a bill of sale with
    the computer serial number, or something like that.

    Maybe we can get certificates from the TSA that say 1) I've got a metal
    joint in my knee and 2) I'm wearing a diaper for health reasons.

    But I'm afraid they won't go for it. They'd say, perhaps with
    justification, that all the future terrorists would show up with metal
    knees and diapers.

    Alan

  10. #10
    Vince Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 11:12:57 -0700, Justin Thyme wrote:

    > Comment at the bottom.
    >
    > "Jim Hand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:b405bc69-cc61-4264-9505-

    [email protected]...
    >>I almost hate to post this in view of the more serious things we deal
    >> with routinely on this forum, but its bothering me and I haven't been
    >> able to get an answer. I'm approaching three years post Da Vinci and
    >> still testing <0.01 on PSA, except for one reading about eleven months
    >> ago that was an apparent error. I never recovered erectile function or
    >> complete continence...and the latter prompts my question.
    >>
    >> Since I also have a joint replacement I always set off the metal
    >> detector at the airport security check. In the past, this has always
    >> been resolved with a wand and the old pat down procedure. Now, I guess
    >> I'll be treated to the new enhanced pat down procedure. I wear a male
    >> pad during the day to keep from wetting my pants. When the TSA "goon"
    >> can't feel my testicles or penis due to the pad am I going to be
    >> invited to an actual strip search to remove or show them the pad?
    >>
    >> I think it would be particularly embarrassing to have to explain to
    >> traveling companions why I'm always treated so "specially". I might be
    >> willing to put up with this if I thought it actually enhanced the
    >> security of air travel but I believe this is strictly security theater
    >> since any terrorist would likely conceal a weapon in their anal cavity
    >> rather than externally. It seems we are always one step behind,
    >> addressing for the previous threat. While its profitable for some
    >> industries and for the TSA organization, I think its a feel-good
    >> exercise for the public that's gone awry.
    >>
    >> (Putting away the soapbox.)

    >
    > I hardly fly at all any longer, but the idea of TSA screening just
    > absolutely disgusts me. As a citizen of this country I am supposed to
    > be presumed innocent unless or until proved otherwise. These invasive
    > screenings make me establish my innocence, contrary to my fundamental
    > rights. This is the Mexican justice system (I live in New Mexico) and
    > should not be practiced here. I understand Israel profiles its
    > travelers and I would support profiling here, too.
    >
    > Ken Bland


    Ken, yes I've heard that Israel does profiling of airline travellers.
    And when is the last time anybody has heard of one of their airliners
    being hijacked or terrorized?

    They need to quit worrying about being PC and just profile people.

    JMO

    Vince



  11. #11
    Alan Meyer Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    On 11/22/2010 6:33 PM, Vince wrote:

    >...
    > Ken, yes I've heard that Israel does profiling of airline travellers.
    > And when is the last time anybody has heard of one of their airliners
    > being hijacked or terrorized?
    >
    > They need to quit worrying about being PC and just profile people.
    >
    > JMO
    >
    > Vince


    I heard an interview with an Israeli anti-terrorism expert once who
    said, "We don't look for weapons, we look for terrorists."

    Apparently Richard Reid, the would be "shoe bomber" boarded an El Al
    flight to Israel with no weapons in a practice dry run. His puppet
    masters wanted to find out if he could get through Israeli security.
    The Israelis spotted him immediately. They let him board the plane but
    they sat an armed sky marshal right next to him, ready to let him have
    it if he tried anything.

    So Al Qaeda decided to try for an American flight instead.

    Alan

  12. #12
    frank curtis Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    On Nov 22, 6:45*pm, Alan Meyer <amey...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > On 11/22/2010 6:33 PM, Vince wrote:
    >
    > >...
    > > Ken, yes I've heard that Israel does profiling of airline travellers.
    > > And when is the last time anybody has heard of one of their airliners
    > > being hijacked or terrorized?

    >
    > > They need to quit worrying about being PC and just profile people.

    >
    > > JMO

    >
    > > Vince

    >
    > I heard an interview with an Israeli anti-terrorism expert once who
    > said, "We don't look for weapons, we look for terrorists."
    >
    > Apparently Richard Reid, the would be "shoe bomber" boarded an El Al
    > flight to Israel with no weapons in a practice dry run. *His puppet
    > masters wanted to find out if he could get through Israeli security.
    > The Israelis spotted him immediately. *They let him board the plane but
    > they sat an armed sky marshal right next to him, ready to let him have
    > it if he tried anything.
    >
    > So Al Qaeda decided to try for an American flight instead.
    >
    > * * *Alan


    I've already thought about this as I will be flying soon and I've
    resolved to remove the pad prior to entering in line and then going
    off to the restroom and putting on a new one after I'm through. If I
    end up with a nice wet spot for them to feel, so much the better.

    How about a guy wearing a kilt....now that's a youtube waiting to
    happen!

  13. #13
    JayTKR Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    Maybe one option would be to create some separate flights that were
    specifically designated as not utilizing the new TSA screening methods that
    some people object to. Then, those who object to the screening could select
    those flights, and everyone on those flights would fly knowing that they and
    all of their fellow passengers had not been screened using the new TSA
    system. I guess one problem with that idea would be that the pilots and
    flight attendants would not want to work those flights knowing that the
    passengers had not been screened using the new TSA system.

    Personally, I would not want to fly on such a flight. I would want to be
    personally screened using the new TSA system, and I would want to know that
    everyone else on the same flight had also been screened. I know the new
    system is not perfect (no system is), and I know there would still be ways
    around it. But, I think that more screening and security measures would be
    better and safer than less.

    I do think that the new system is awkward in the way that the OP pointed
    out -- that when travelling with others, it creates a question of medical
    privacy when the question arises as to why one person in the travelling
    party continues to be singled out for special private-room screenings. Off
    hand, I can't think of a solution or workaround for that one.


    "Jim Hand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >I almost hate to post this in view of the more serious things we deal
    > with routinely on this forum, but its bothering me and I haven't been
    > able to get an answer. I'm approaching three years post Da Vinci and
    > still testing <0.01 on PSA, except for one reading about eleven months
    > ago that was an apparent error. I never recovered erectile function
    > or complete continence...and the latter prompts my question.
    >
    > Since I also have a joint replacement I always set off the metal
    > detector at the airport security check. In the past, this has always
    > been resolved with a wand and the old pat down procedure. Now, I
    > guess I'll be treated to the new enhanced pat down procedure. I wear
    > a male pad during the day to keep from wetting my pants. When the TSA
    > "goon" can't feel my testicles or penis due to the pad am I going to
    > be invited to an actual strip search to remove or show them the pad?
    >
    > I think it would be particularly embarrassing to have to explain to
    > traveling companions why I'm always treated so "specially". I might
    > be willing to put up with this if I thought it actually enhanced the
    > security of air travel but I believe this is strictly security theater
    > since any terrorist would likely conceal a weapon in their anal cavity
    > rather than externally. It seems we are always one step behind,
    > addressing for the previous threat. While its profitable for some
    > industries and for the TSA organization, I think its a feel-good
    > exercise for the public that's gone awry.
    >
    > (Putting away the soapbox.)



  14. #14
    safire Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    X-no-archive: yes On 11/23/10 10:21 AM, in article
    icg11u$6ut$[email protected], "JayTKR" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Then, those who object to the screening could select
    > those flights, and everyone on those flights would fly knowing that they and
    > all of their fellow passengers had not been screened using the new TSA
    > system. I guess one problem with that idea would be that the pilots and
    > flight attendants would not want to work those flights knowing that the
    > passengers had not been screened using the new TSA system.


    The two major terrorist attacks in Europe after 2001 involved (underground)
    trains: London and Madrid. The British and Spanish authorities did not start
    requiring screening of train passengers to avoid repeat attacks, limiting
    the amount of tooth paste you can bring with you or prohibit sharp
    instruments. There have been no further terrorist attacks on trains in
    Europe. Employees are not reluctant to work for railroad companies just
    because there is no screening.


  15. #15
    Steve Kramer Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    "frank curtis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    On Nov 22, 6:45 pm, Alan Meyer <amey...@yahoo.com> wrote:


    I've already thought about this as I will be flying soon and I've
    resolved to remove the pad prior to entering in line and then going
    off to the restroom and putting on a new one after I'm through. If I
    end up with a nice wet spot for them to feel, so much the better.

    How about a guy wearing a kilt....now that's a youtube waiting to
    happen!

    ==> I don't think I'll ever fly again (for more reasons than pat downs),
    but if I did, I would seriously consider reaching for the TSA agent's junk
    and see if he is okay with that.



  16. #16
    Steve Kramer Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    "JayTKR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:icg11u$6ut$[email protected]..
    > Maybe one option would be to create some separate flights that were
    > specifically designated as not utilizing the new TSA screening methods
    > that some people object to. Then, those who object to the screening could
    > select those flights, and everyone on those flights would fly knowing that
    > they and all of their fellow passengers had not been screened using the
    > new TSA system. I guess one problem with that idea would be that the
    > pilots and flight attendants would not want to work those flights knowing
    > that the passengers had not been screened using the new TSA system.


    I think you have a great idea with one focus ajustment to make it
    constitutionally licit.

    There ought to be a "safe flight" option. The passengers would pay triple
    the cost for a flight. Passengers, pilots, and stewardesses would come to
    the airport two hours before the flight. All would be strip searched and
    their cavities probed (by former prison guards). All the luggage would be
    searched (by former police officers). The planes would be guarded whenever
    on the ground (by former Marines). And the flight would be guaranteed to
    arrive without being successfully hijacked or blown from the skies.

    All others would go to the airport half an hour before the flight, pay a
    reasonable amount for the flight, go through a magnetometer, but have only a
    99.97% chance of arriving safely.


    --
    PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
    Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
    RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
    PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
    EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
    PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD 0.56 years
    Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
    PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.40 years
    Casodex added daily 07/06
    PSA <0.1 until =0.1 10/10 PSAD 2.99 years
    Illegitimati non carborundum



  17. #17
    Boothby171 Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    Actually, I think you'd have to charge <i>more</i> for the "unsafe"
    flights--on average, you'd lose many more planes, pilots and crew on
    those runs. You'd have to amortize out the cost of buying new planes,
    training new pilots, etc, across all the passengers.



    > > Maybe one option would be to create some separate flights that were
    > > specifically designated as not utilizing the new TSA screening methods
    > > that some people object to. *Then, those who object to the screening could
    > > select those flights, and everyone on those flights would fly knowing that
    > > they and all of their fellow passengers had not been screened using the
    > > new TSA system. *I guess one problem with that idea would be that the
    > > pilots and flight attendants would not want to work those flights knowing
    > > that the passengers had not been screened using the new TSA system.

    >
    > I think you have a great idea with one focus ajustment to make it
    > constitutionally licit.
    >
    > There ought to be a "safe flight" option. *The passengers would pay triple
    > the cost for a flight. *Passengers, pilots, and stewardesses would cometo
    > the airport two hours before the flight. *All would be strip searched and
    > their cavities probed (by former prison guards). *All the luggage wouldbe
    > searched (by former police officers). *The planes would be guarded whenever
    > on the ground (by former Marines). *And the flight would be guaranteed to
    > arrive without being successfully hijacked or blown from the skies.
    >
    > All others would go to the airport half an hour before the flight, pay a
    > reasonable amount for the flight, go through a magnetometer, but have only a
    > 99.97% chance of arriving safely.
    >
    > --


    > Illegitimati non carborundum


    (Don't let the bastards grind you down)


  18. #18
    Alan Meyer Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    On 11/23/2010 8:14 AM, safire wrote:
    ....
    > The two major terrorist attacks in Europe after 2001 involved (underground)
    > trains: London and Madrid. The British and Spanish authorities did not start
    > requiring screening of train passengers to avoid repeat attacks, limiting
    > the amount of tooth paste you can bring with you or prohibit sharp
    > instruments. There have been no further terrorist attacks on trains in
    > Europe. Employees are not reluctant to work for railroad companies just
    > because there is no screening.
    >


    That's one of the interesting incongruities in our TSA planning.

    Here's another one:

    The 911 hijackers used box cutting knives to hijack the planes. Since
    then, anything with a sharp edge has been banned from flying. My wife
    had a nail clipper seized and later a tiny pen knife with a one inch blade.

    But if the cockpit doors are locked and the pilots won't open them,
    there's no way to hijack a plane with box cutter or any edged weapon
    short of a battle ax to batter down the door. The best a crazed
    hijacker could do with a pocket knife would be to kill some passengers
    before he was overcome by the others. He could do exactly as well or
    even much better on the street rather than in an airplane.

    And here's one that happened to me:

    I waited in a 20 minute line and went through the security screen. A
    guard stopped me at the other side and pointed out that I had some water
    in the water bottle in my knapsack and I had to give him the bottle. I
    wanted to keep the bottle and fill it at a fountain to have with me
    during the flight, so I said, "okay, I'll drink the water." But that
    wouldn't do. I could drink the water, but I had to do it on the other
    side of the security barrier and go through the 20 minute line again
    with my pockets empty, shoes off, etc.

    He knew that what he was ordering me to do was stupid and he had the
    grace to be embarrassed about it, but he had to follow orders or risk
    losing his job. I was pissed off but I knew that escalating this
    incident wouldn't work out for me. I handed him the bottle.

    And one more:

    I had a $430 digital camera that I had mistakenly brought with me in a
    briefcase into the treatment room for prostate radiation. The x-rays
    must have hit the camera because the display didn't work afterward. For
    some reason, the functionality came back some time later.

    I took it through an airport scanner and it went out again. It did
    eventually come back, after a longer time.

    On my next vacation I asked the guard to examine the camera and not put
    it through the x-rays. He refused. He told me I could either give him
    the camera or put it through the x-rays, or I could miss the flight.
    Period. Those were my options.

    I tried to reason with him but he was having none of that. Unlike the
    water guard, this one was really belligerent. I took the camera through
    the scanner and the display never worked again. The only consolation
    was that it eventually became obsolete and I wanted to replace it anyway.

    Alan

  19. #19
    Sure,Not Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    On Nov 23, 4:21*am, "JayTKR" <Jay...@ertyuiqw.hjk> wrote:
    > Maybe one option would be to create some separate flights that were
    > specifically designated as not utilizing the newTSAscreening methods that
    > some people object to. *Then, those who object to the screening could select
    > those flights, and everyone on those flights would fly knowing that they and
    > all of their fellow passengers had not been screened using the newTSA
    > system. *I guess one problem with that idea would be that the pilots and
    > flight attendants would not want to work those flights knowing that the
    > passengers had not been screened using the newTSAsystem.
    >
    > Personally, I would not want to fly on such a flight. *I would want to be
    > personally screened using the newTSAsystem, and I would want to know that
    > everyone else on the same flight had also been screened. *I know the new
    > system is not perfect (no system is), and I know there would still be ways
    > around it. *But, I think that more screening and security measures would be
    > better and safer than less.
    >
    > I do think that the new system is awkward in the way that the OP pointed
    > out -- that when travelling with others, it creates a question of medical
    > privacy when the question arises as to why one person in the travelling
    > party continues to be singled out for special private-room screenings. *Off
    > hand, I can't think of a solution or workaround for that one.
    >
    > "Jim Hand" <jdh...@chartermi.net> wrote in message
    >
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    >
    > >I almost hate to post this in view of the more serious things we deal
    > > with routinely on this forum, but its bothering me and I haven't been
    > > able to get an answer. *I'm approaching three years post Da Vinci and
    > > still testing <0.01 on PSA, except for one reading about eleven months
    > > ago that was an apparent error. *I never recovered erectile function
    > > or complete continence...and the latter prompts my question.

    >
    > > Since I also have a joint replacement I always set off the metal
    > > detector at the airport security check. *In the past, this has always
    > > been resolved with a wand and the old pat down procedure. *Now, I
    > > guess I'll be treated to the new enhanced pat down procedure. *I wear
    > > a male pad during the day to keep from wetting my pants. *When theTSA
    > > "goon" can't feel my testicles or penis due to the pad am I going to
    > > be invited to an actual strip search to remove or show them the pad?

    >
    > > I think it would be particularly embarrassing to have to explain to
    > > traveling companions why I'm always treated so "specially". *I might
    > > be willing to put up with this if I thought it actually enhanced the
    > > security of air travel but I believe this is strictly security theater
    > > since any terrorist would likely conceal a weapon in their anal cavity
    > > rather than externally. *It seems we are always one step behind,
    > > addressing for the previous threat. *While its profitable for some
    > > industries and for theTSAorganization, I think its a feel-good
    > > exercise for the public that's gone awry.

    >
    > > (Putting away the soapbox.)- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    LOL. Ok, I'll agree. So those flights would be free as a decoy?

    But we have to make it Universal. If you want a happy meal, you must
    submit to a blood test, probing and stand on a scale in front of
    everyone. Only if you pass can you then have the happy meal, or
    burger, or pizza, or whatever.

    Slippery slope.

    Do you think those that want to cause us harm are so short-sighted as
    to only target an airplane? Why not a Walmart on Black Friday? Are
    you willing to submit to this type of invasive screening everywhere
    you go?




  20. #20
    Boothby171 Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    Not Sure,

    Agreed...if a terrorist wants you dead, and is halfway competent at
    his chosen profession, you're dead.

    What I have to wonder is: why aren't there MORE attacks???

    * Maybe there's more bluster than action from these guys
    * Maybe our government is better at uncovering terrorist plots than we
    give them credit for
    * Maybe the terrorists are actually fairly incompetent (all the smart
    ones STAYED in engineering school, and now work for IBM and XEROX!)

    I don't know. But I DO know (from my stint at creating anti-terrorist
    devices) that any open society such as ours (US), or Britain, etc.,
    can never truly protect itself or its citizens from a competent,
    driven terrorist organization. We RELY on trust to make things work,
    whether that's a good idea or not.



    On Nov 23, 12:42*pm, "Sure,Not" <bamberb...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > On Nov 23, 4:21*am, "JayTKR" <Jay...@ertyuiqw.hjk> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > Maybe one option would be to create some separate flights that were
    > > specifically designated as not utilizing the newTSAscreening methods that
    > > some people object to. *Then, those who object to the screening couldselect
    > > those flights, and everyone on those flights would fly knowing that they and
    > > all of their fellow passengers had not been screened using the newTSA
    > > system. *I guess one problem with that idea would be that the pilots and
    > > flight attendants would not want to work those flights knowing that the
    > > passengers had not been screened using the newTSAsystem.

    >
    > > Personally, I would not want to fly on such a flight. *I would want to be
    > > personally screened using the newTSAsystem, and I would want to know that
    > > everyone else on the same flight had also been screened. *I know the new
    > > system is not perfect (no system is), and I know there would still be ways
    > > around it. *But, I think that more screening and security measures would be
    > > better and safer than less.

    >
    > > I do think that the new system is awkward in the way that the OP pointed
    > > out -- that when travelling with others, it creates a question of medical
    > > privacy when the question arises as to why one person in the travelling
    > > party continues to be singled out for special private-room screenings. *Off
    > > hand, I can't think of a solution or workaround for that one.

    >
    > > "Jim Hand" <jdh...@chartermi.net> wrote in message

    >
    > >news:[email protected]....

    >
    > > >I almost hate to post this in view of the more serious things we deal
    > > > with routinely on this forum, but its bothering me and I haven't been
    > > > able to get an answer. *I'm approaching three years post Da Vinci and
    > > > still testing <0.01 on PSA, except for one reading about eleven months
    > > > ago that was an apparent error. *I never recovered erectile function
    > > > or complete continence...and the latter prompts my question.

    >
    > > > Since I also have a joint replacement I always set off the metal
    > > > detector at the airport security check. *In the past, this has always
    > > > been resolved with a wand and the old pat down procedure. *Now, I
    > > > guess I'll be treated to the new enhanced pat down procedure. *I wear
    > > > a male pad during the day to keep from wetting my pants. *When theTSA
    > > > "goon" can't feel my testicles or penis due to the pad am I going to
    > > > be invited to an actual strip search to remove or show them the pad?

    >
    > > > I think it would be particularly embarrassing to have to explain to
    > > > traveling companions why I'm always treated so "specially". *I might
    > > > be willing to put up with this if I thought it actually enhanced the
    > > > security of air travel but I believe this is strictly security theater
    > > > since any terrorist would likely conceal a weapon in their anal cavity
    > > > rather than externally. *It seems we are always one step behind,
    > > > addressing for the previous threat. *While its profitable for some
    > > > industries and for theTSAorganization, I think its a feel-good
    > > > exercise for the public that's gone awry.

    >
    > > > (Putting away the soapbox.)- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > LOL. *Ok, I'll agree. *So those flights would be free as a decoy?
    >
    > But we have to make it Universal. * If you want a happy meal, you must
    > submit to a blood test, probing and stand on a scale in front of
    > everyone. *Only if you pass can you then have the happy meal, or
    > burger, or pizza, or whatever.
    >
    > Slippery slope.
    >
    > Do you think those that want to cause us harm are so short-sighted as
    > to only target an airplane? *Why not a Walmart on Black Friday? *Are
    > you willing to submit to this type of invasive screening everywhere
    > you go?



  21. #21
    Dale j. Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    In article <[email protected]>, Alan Meyer <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > On 11/23/2010 8:14 AM, safire wrote:
    > ...
    > > The two major terrorist attacks in Europe after 2001 involved (underground)
    > > trains: London and Madrid. The British and Spanish authorities did not start
    > > requiring screening of train passengers to avoid repeat attacks, limiting
    > > the amount of tooth paste you can bring with you or prohibit sharp
    > > instruments. There have been no further terrorist attacks on trains in
    > > Europe. Employees are not reluctant to work for railroad companies just
    > > because there is no screening.
    > >

    >
    > That's one of the interesting incongruities in our TSA planning.
    >
    > Here's another one:
    >
    > The 911 hijackers used box cutting knives to hijack the planes. Since
    > then, anything with a sharp edge has been banned from flying. My wife
    > had a nail clipper seized and later a tiny pen knife with a one inch blade.
    >
    > But if the cockpit doors are locked and the pilots won't open them,
    > there's no way to hijack a plane with box cutter or any edged weapon
    > short of a battle ax to batter down the door. The best a crazed
    > hijacker could do with a pocket knife would be to kill some passengers
    > before he was overcome by the others. He could do exactly as well or
    > even much better on the street rather than in an airplane.
    >
    > And here's one that happened to me:
    >
    > I waited in a 20 minute line and went through the security screen. A
    > guard stopped me at the other side and pointed out that I had some water
    > in the water bottle in my knapsack and I had to give him the bottle. I
    > wanted to keep the bottle and fill it at a fountain to have with me
    > during the flight, so I said, "okay, I'll drink the water." But that
    > wouldn't do. I could drink the water, but I had to do it on the other
    > side of the security barrier and go through the 20 minute line again
    > with my pockets empty, shoes off, etc.
    >
    > He knew that what he was ordering me to do was stupid and he had the
    > grace to be embarrassed about it, but he had to follow orders or risk
    > losing his job. I was pissed off but I knew that escalating this
    > incident wouldn't work out for me. I handed him the bottle.
    >
    > And one more:
    >
    > I had a $430 digital camera that I had mistakenly brought with me in a
    > briefcase into the treatment room for prostate radiation. The x-rays
    > must have hit the camera because the display didn't work afterward. For
    > some reason, the functionality came back some time later.
    >
    > I took it through an airport scanner and it went out again. It did
    > eventually come back, after a longer time.
    >
    > On my next vacation I asked the guard to examine the camera and not put
    > it through the x-rays. He refused. He told me I could either give him
    > the camera or put it through the x-rays, or I could miss the flight.
    > Period. Those were my options.
    >
    > I tried to reason with him but he was having none of that. Unlike the
    > water guard, this one was really belligerent. I took the camera through
    > the scanner and the display never worked again. The only consolation
    > was that it eventually became obsolete and I wanted to replace it anyway.
    >
    > Alan


    As for me, I won't be traveling by commercial air ever again. I'll
    drive my car or take a bus, train, but I won't be going though this
    gamut, thank you very much. Besides, air travel is getting too
    expensive with only a bag of peanuts and a can of pop for lunch, if
    you're lucky.

    Going back a few decades, air travel was special, people dressed up, it
    was a special treat. Those days are gone forever. It is a herd of
    cattle boarding a commercial airliner today. We are rapidly becoming
    like a third world country, starting with air travel, sadly.
    --
    Email: [email protected]

    Seven years already, going on eight.

  22. #22
    I.P. Freely Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    Boothby171 wrote:
    > why aren't there MORE attacks???
    >

    A big part of the reason is that many thousands of the terrorists and
    scores of their leaders are now dead and the living ones are kinda busy,
    thanks to two presidents and hundreds of thousands of patriots willing
    to risk public animosity and their own lives to fight them.

  23. #23
    Boothby171 Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    On Nov 23, 6:56*pm, "I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddabou...@noway.nohow> wrote:
    > Boothby171 wrote:
    > > why aren't there MORE attacks???

    >
    > A big part of the reason is that many thousands of the terrorists and
    > scores of their leaders are now dead and the living ones are kinda busy,
    > thanks to two presidents and hundreds of thousands of patriots willing
    > to risk public animosity and their own lives to fight them.


    Well, I'm a bleeding heart liberal, and even *I* think they're doing a
    hell of a job!

    (though, honestly, we didn't help any by invading and taking over
    Iraq; I think we made things worse. At least after Obama took over
    the banks and General Motors, they eventually paid us back and started
    taking care of business themselves!)

  24. #24
    watcher Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    On 2010-11-23, Steve Kramer <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "frank curtis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:353711db-8425-4cd8-8bb7-a14b5f5ec2ad@g25g2000yqn.go[email protected]..
    > On Nov 22, 6:45 pm, Alan Meyer <amey...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    > I've already thought about this as I will be flying soon and I've
    > resolved to remove the pad prior to entering in line and then going
    > off to the restroom and putting on a new one after I'm through. If I
    > end up with a nice wet spot for them to feel, so much the better.
    >
    > How about a guy wearing a kilt....now that's a youtube waiting to
    > happen!
    >
    >==> I don't think I'll ever fly again (for more reasons than pat downs),
    > but if I did, I would seriously consider reaching for the TSA agent's junk
    > and see if he is okay with that.
    >
    >


    At the rate the TSA is escalating the intensity of the search process, I can't
    help wondering when they'll arrive at the ultimate solution: everyone strips
    and flies naked. Males and females will be separated on arrival at the
    airport, herded into their respective intake areas, where they strip and hand
    their clothes over to the TSA for "safekeeping". All departees will be subject
    to body cavity searches, of course, before boarding, and all clothes will be
    inspected before being packed into the plane. The planes will be divided into
    male and female compartments, and no peeking allowed! At the far end, you'll
    be given back what are, hopefully, your clothes and you go on your way.
    Sounds extreme, but it's coming - and, in time, the sheeple will go along with
    it.

    W.


  25. #25
    Vince Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 17:46:07 -0600, Dale j. wrote:
    >
    > As for me, I won't be traveling by commercial air ever again. I'll
    > drive my car or take a bus, train, but I won't be going though this
    > gamut, thank you very much. Besides, air travel is getting too
    > expensive with only a bag of peanuts and a can of pop for lunch, if
    > you're lucky.
    >
    > Going back a few decades, air travel was special, people dressed up, it
    > was a special treat. Those days are gone forever. It is a herd of
    > cattle boarding a commercial airliner today. We are rapidly becoming
    > like a third world country, starting with air travel, sadly.


    I'm with you Dale. I've been flying since 1969. Flying used to be
    enjoyable and it was something special. Now days it's just like herding
    cattle. I won't ever fly again either, unless some emergency makes it
    necessary. I'll drive, take the train or bus from now on. I took the
    train from Chicago to Denver 4 or 5 years ago and it was a very enjoyable
    trip. As long as you're not pressed for time that is, as they are rarely
    on schedule.

    Vince

  26. #26
    Gourd Dancer Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    If you call using bailout funds to pay off the loan, then I guess you are
    accurate. However, TARP money will come out of your pocket eventually,
    therefore, you and all of us are paying back GM's loan. Please check your
    facts and then we all can stay on topic.

    My source - Neil Barofsy and Tom Carper in April 2010 after the GM
    announcement.

    GD


    "Boothby171" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    On Nov 23, 6:56 pm, "I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddabou...@noway.nohow> wrote:
    > Boothby171 wrote:
    > > why aren't there MORE attacks???

    >
    > A big part of the reason is that many thousands of the terrorists and
    > scores of their leaders are now dead and the living ones are kinda busy,
    > thanks to two presidents and hundreds of thousands of patriots willing
    > to risk public animosity and their own lives to fight them.


    Well, I'm a bleeding heart liberal, and even *I* think they're doing a
    hell of a job!

    (though, honestly, we didn't help any by invading and taking over
    Iraq; I think we made things worse. At least after Obama took over
    the banks and General Motors, they eventually paid us back and started
    taking care of business themselves!)


  27. #27
    Steve Kramer Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    "Boothby171" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    Actually, I think you'd have to charge <i>more</i> for the "unsafe"
    flights--on average, you'd lose many more planes, pilots and crew on
    those runs. You'd have to amortize out the cost of buying new planes,
    training new pilots, etc, across all the passengers.

    ==> Steve, just a reminder of how things were before 9/11. You went to an
    airport, went through a magnatometer after emptying your pockets, and got on
    a plane. You were permitted to take onboard small knives, fingernail
    clippers, etc. Cops were routed around the magnatometers and got on with
    their weapons. Air Marshals would sit on random flights. If someone used a
    personal weapon to hijack a plane, everyone in the plane "knew" they would
    be spending a day in Seria or Cuba. If they were an American service man,
    they might be in serious danger. Otherwise, overwhelming the hijacker was
    was not considered worth the risk - "if just one person dies...".

    Then, 9/11 comes and the federal government rachets up their perception of
    security. Flying became much more difficult and time consuming. Prices of
    tickets soared. Airlines went out of business. Hubs disappeared or became
    largely vacant. Government grew astoundingly. Eventually, the government's
    increase in its own numbers, combined with Congress's spending and unfunded
    mandates took the country to the brink of insolvency - some say to
    inevitable insolvency.

    But, if you and I had and a few intelligent men sat down to discuss the
    issues as a problem resoultion process, our final report after 9/11 would
    have been "We do nothing. Never again will anyone allow the hijacking of an
    airliner."

    One more reminder... TSA has never caught a terrorist or found a bomb. So,
    why haven't we had any skyjackings since 9/11? We were having 10 a years
    until 9/11. Why none now? I say it's because potential skyjackers know
    that if they get by security with a weapon, there will be a hundred men
    willing to take a cut or a bullet to save the rest. After the Pennsylvania
    crash, manning up has become fashionable in airplanes.




  28. #28
    Steve Kramer Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    "Boothby171" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    On Nov 23, 6:56 pm, "I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddabou...@noway.nohow> wrote:
    > Boothby171 wrote:
    > > why aren't there MORE attacks???

    >
    > A big part of the reason is that many thousands of the terrorists and
    > scores of their leaders are now dead and the living ones are kinda busy,
    > thanks to two presidents and hundreds of thousands of patriots willing
    > to risk public animosity and their own lives to fight them.


    Well, I'm a bleeding heart liberal, and even *I* think they're doing a
    hell of a job!

    (though, honestly, we didn't help any by invading and taking over
    Iraq; I think we made things worse. At least after Obama took over
    the banks and General Motors, they eventually paid us back and started
    taking care of business themselves!)

    ==> That's an interesting world you live in. GM "said" in a commercial that
    they paid us back. That was a lie. They paid off their first loan with a
    second. In law, that's called "kiting". "The banks" have not paid us back.
    And when they do, it will be with a much devalued dollar.

    Even a liberal ought to rail against unconstitutional measures regardless of
    the stated purpose for the violations of our nations highest law.





  29. #29
    Boothby171 Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    Son of a gun!!

    http://www.thepoliticalclass.com/201...overnment.html

    (Back to topic, then!)

    On Nov 24, 2:24*am, "Gourd Dancer" <fa...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > If you call using bailout funds to pay off the loan, then I guess you are
    > accurate. However, TARP money will come out of your pocket eventually,
    > therefore, you and all of us are paying back GM's loan. Please check your
    > facts and then we all can stay on topic.
    >
    > My source - Neil Barofsy and Tom Carper in April 2010 after the GM
    > announcement.
    >
    > GD
    >
    > "Boothby171" <boothby...@gmail.com> wrote in message
    >
    > news:[email protected]...
    > On Nov 23, 6:56 pm, "I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddabou...@noway.nohow> wrote:
    >
    > > Boothby171 wrote:
    > > > why aren't there MORE attacks???

    >
    > > A big part of the reason is that many thousands of the terrorists and
    > > scores of their leaders are now dead and the living ones are kinda busy,
    > > thanks to two presidents and hundreds of thousands of patriots willing
    > > to risk public animosity and their own lives to fight them.

    >
    > Well, I'm a bleeding heart liberal, and even *I* think they're doing a
    > hell of a job!
    >
    > (though, honestly, we didn't help any by invading and taking over
    > Iraq; I think we made things worse. *At least after Obama took over
    > the banks and General Motors, they eventually paid us back and started
    > taking care of business themselves!)



  30. #30
    safire Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    X-no-archive: yes On 11/24/10 2:15 PM, in article
    icj363$a79$[email protected], "Steve Kramer"
    <[email protected]> wrote:


    > Eventually, the government's
    > increase in its own numbers, combined with Congress's spending and unfunded
    > mandates took the country to the brink of insolvency - some say to
    > inevitable insolvency.


    ???
    Maybe you should tell the financial markets. They haven't noticed any
    federal insolvency yet. And that spending, is that the money wasted on Iraq?
    >
    > We were having 10 [hijackings] a year[s]
    > until 9/11.


    There was only one (1) hijacking in the U.S. During the 90s. A FedEx plane
    was hijacked by a disgruntled employee.


  31. #31
    I.P. Freely Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    Boothby171 wroteAt least after Obama took over
    >> the banks and General Motors, they eventually paid us back and started
    >> taking care of business themselves!)


    We (taxpayers) put $50B into GM. We got back $12B.
    The UAW put zero in, and "got back" $4B.
    *IF* GM stock goes high enough (at least $51 per share) for us to break
    even, the UAW is getting close to $10B for an investment of zero.
    On top of that, the initial GM IPO was offered under the table to China,
    Saudi Arabia, etc. before U.S. investors were allowed to invest. Once
    China's and Saudi Arabia's demand was sated, we got a -- higher priced
    -- crack at the market. IOW, the UAW came out best (infinite return of
    investment), China and Saudi Arabia next by an infinite margin, U.S. IPO
    investors third, and U.S. taxpayers, the only losers so far, an
    extremely distant fourth. No one outside GM, the administration, or
    their media sycophants claims we are anywhere near even.

    What does that say about how much our leaders think of us?

    I.P.

  32. #32
    safire Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    X-no-archive: yes On 11/24/10 7:22 PM, in article
    FJcHo.38542$[email protected], "I.P. Freely"
    <[email protected]> wrote:


    > The UAW put zero in, and "got back" $4B.

    Uhh, not the UAW, but the UAW Retiree Medical BenefitsTrust. You see, you're
    not the only person whose medical benefits are provided for by a former
    employer. The retired auto workers had a claim in GM's bankruptcy for future
    benefits. That claim was paid for in the form of shares in new GM.



    > *IF* GM stock goes high enough (at least $51 per share) for us to break
    > even, the UAW is getting close to $10B for an investment of zero.


    Do you put a zero value on your retirement benefits?


  33. #33
    Jim Hand Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    Well, since I started this mess maybe I can ask that we think about
    finishing it. We're an awfully long way from a prostate cancer
    topic! Regarding my original concern about how to handle going
    through an enhanced pat down with a male incontinence pad, I reached
    the same conclusion as Frank Curtis...take the pad off before the
    screening area, go through the grope and put a new pad on after
    security. I know for sure that that's what I would do if I was
    traveling with business associates. The fact that I was incontinent
    would have made it around the corporate center in a very short time.
    I bet that would have been career limiting! Since I'm retired, I
    think I'll just go through the process and see what happens. If I pee
    on the screener's hand I'll apologize. Thanks to everyone for their
    input!

    If we do continue the discussion, put me down for increased use of
    profiling. That's something this liberal never thought he would say!

  34. #34
    I.P. Freely Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    Jim Hand wrote:
    > take the pad off before the screening area

    ....
    > The fact that I was incontinent
    > would have made it around the corporate center in a very short time.
    > I bet that would have been career limiting! ...


    I see no reason for that. If you pass the grope, no observers will learn
    anything. If you fail the grope and they want to get in your pants,
    that's done in a private room. If friends ask why you had to go to a
    private room, just shrug, or maybe say "They didn't believe what they
    felt". That should be GOOD for one's career. Besides, there's no way I'm
    peeing in my pants for the benefit of my business associates (I also
    don't know why it should affect a career, considering how long it
    normally takes us to proceed from overtly healthy to incapacitated. (My
    onc says I should have at least a decade between PSA recurrence and
    serious symptoms, even with my G-8.)

    I don't care who knows I've had cancer, and sometimes joke about my
    incontinence. Am I just that naive, or do that many people hold PC
    against us?

    I.P.

  35. #35
    Alan Meyer Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    On 11/24/2010 7:26 PM, I.P. Freely wrote:

    ....
    > I don't care who knows I've had cancer, and sometimes joke about my
    > incontinence. Am I just that naive, or do that many people hold PC
    > against us?

    ....

    This is really a good topic for another thread but, since we're here,
    I'll say that I don't care who knows either. I don't advertise that
    I've had cancer but I don't hide it either.

    Some people consider illness to be shameful or the after effects of
    incontinence or impotence to be shameful. But I don't think that people
    should be ashamed.

    Anyone who looks for my name on the Internet will find all of these
    postings and know it all.

    Alan

  36. #36
    I.P. Freely Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    Alan Meyer wrote:
    > Anyone who looks for my name on the Internet will find all of these
    > postings and know it all.


    Probably a good attitude, until a few twisted stalkers mess with your
    virtual and real lives.

    I.P.

  37. #37
    I.P. Freely Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    Alan Meyer wrote:
    > Anyone who looks for my name on the Internet will find all of these
    > postings and know it all.


    Probably a good attitude, until a few twisted stalkers mess with your
    virtual and real lives. The sane ones can often be forced to retreat by
    revealing their personal data and behavior to their personal and/or
    professional peers, but those with nothing at stake and no conscience
    are tough to silence without legal action. Anonymity is the simplest
    solution.

    I.P.

  38. #38
    Alan Meyer Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    On 11/29/2010 2:01 PM, I.P. Freely wrote:
    > Alan Meyer wrote:
    >> Anyone who looks for my name on the Internet will find all of these
    >> postings and know it all.

    >
    > Probably a good attitude, until a few twisted stalkers mess with your
    > virtual and real lives. The sane ones can often be forced to retreat by
    > revealing their personal data and behavior to their personal and/or
    > professional peers, but those with nothing at stake and no conscience
    > are tough to silence without legal action. Anonymity is the simplest
    > solution.
    >
    > I.P.


    We've had this conversation before. I've been posting to the Internet
    using my real name for at least 15 years and never had a problem of that
    kind. I've had plenty of spam, but that seems to be under control now.
    I get no more than 10-20 a day, down from as much as 200, and 75% of
    it is detected by spam filters.

    For me, the openness of standing behind what I say in my own name, and
    the ease that people have of finding me, trumps the fear of miscreants.

    Telemarketers and robocalls have been a much bigger problem for me than
    Internet jerks. However my wife and I each want people to be able to
    call us when necessary, so we put up with it. The "do not call" list
    has helped a lot though it hasn't solved the problem.

    Have you ever actually had a stalker after you?

    Alan

  39. #39
    MZB Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    On 11/29/2010 3:08 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
    > On 11/29/2010 2:01 PM, I.P. Freely wrote:
    >> Alan Meyer wrote:
    >>> Anyone who looks for my name on the Internet will find all of these
    >>> postings and know it all.

    >>
    >> Probably a good attitude, until a few twisted stalkers mess with your
    >> virtual and real lives. The sane ones can often be forced to retreat by
    >> revealing their personal data and behavior to their personal and/or
    >> professional peers, but those with nothing at stake and no conscience
    >> are tough to silence without legal action. Anonymity is the simplest
    >> solution.
    >>
    >> I.P.

    >
    > We've had this conversation before. I've been posting to the Internet
    > using my real name for at least 15 years and never had a problem of that
    > kind. I've had plenty of spam, but that seems to be under control now. I
    > get no more than 10-20 a day, down from as much as 200, and 75% of it is
    > detected by spam filters.
    >
    > For me, the openness of standing behind what I say in my own name, and
    > the ease that people have of finding me, trumps the fear of miscreants.
    >
    > Telemarketers and robocalls have been a much bigger problem for me than
    > Internet jerks. However my wife and I each want people to be able to
    > call us when necessary, so we put up with it. The "do not call" list has
    > helped a lot though it hasn't solved the problem.
    >
    > Have you ever actually had a stalker after you?
    >
    > Alan

    I agree. I am getting sick and tired of those who hide like little
    girlie girls behind some phoney baloney name.

    Abe Lincoln

  40. #40
    Steve Kramer Guest

    Default Re: TSA Screenings and Incontinence Pads

    "Alan Meyer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > On 11/24/2010 7:26 PM, I.P. Freely wrote:


    > Some people consider illness to be shameful or the after effects of
    > incontinence or impotence to be shameful. But I don't think that people
    > should be ashamed.


    I don't know if "shame" is the correct word. I also don't hide it, but I
    generally don't talk about the SEs either unless I am talking to someone who
    might benefit from my experience. I have never felt shame - but I really do
    not like the feeling that someone is feeling sorry for me.

    Every once in a while and old occupational acquaintance will ask how I am
    doing and another in the area will say, "You have cancer?!" I feel pretty
    good about that.

    However, during 2006, one of my favorite workers died of prostate cancer and
    I didn't know HE had it. He always said his limping was because of a bad
    back. He was one of those guys who, no matter how early I arrived, he was
    there before me. We talked a lot, but never about cancer. I often wonder
    if he would have benefited more if he knew I had PCa and he could have
    discussed it with me.



    --
    PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
    Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
    RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
    PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
    EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
    PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD 0.56 years
    Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
    PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.40 years
    Casodex added daily 07/06
    PSA <0.1 until =0.1 10/10 PSAD 2.99 years
    Illegitimati non carborundum



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