Unlurking.........

My husband Kevin was dx with aggressive prostate cancer on March 4,
2008. I have been lurking here since that day and have found lots of
very helpful information.

March 4th, the day we got the dx, he started one month of Casodex. Two
weeks later, on March 17, was the first Trelstar shot and the second one
on April 17th. He is going for 44 sessions of IMRT and started radiation
on April 28th.

Kevin has a history of migraines and before the dx they had become more
frequent. (Maybe because the cancer was already messing with him?) In
the last 2 weeks, he has started have a migraine or sinus headache
everyday. About two weeks ago he started taking Toprol for the
migraines, so far no relief.

Having a migraine or sinus headache everyday isn't fun, but the more
important issue is that it is making it very hard for him to get an
exercise program started.

Any ideas about the headaches being related to Trelstar or the IMRT?

Thanks,
sue

psa 2.2 10/05, 4.1 8/07, 7.9 12/07
DRE 1/24/08 - showed firmess in one area
biopsy 2/20/08 - all 12 G9
Casodex - 30 days started 3/4/08
Trelstar 3/1708, 4/17/08
IMRT - 44 treatments started 4/28/08

On May 8, Sue wrote:

(snip)

> Having a migraine or sinus headache everyday isn't fun, but the more
> important issue is that it is making it very hard for him to get an
> exercise program started.
>
> Any ideas about the headaches being related to Trelstar or the IMRT?

I have no medical qualifications other than a history of PCa and also
migraines.

I very much doubt that Trelstar or IMRT are causing the headaches,
although "headache" is listed as a side effect in 5% of the clinical
test subjects. More likely, it's the stress.

See, http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/treldepo.htm

Regards,

Steve J

On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:35:51 -0400, sue mullen wrote
(in article <68gkusF2t2sglU1@mid.individual.net>):

> My husband Kevin was dx with aggressive prostate cancer on March 4,
> 2008. I have been lurking here since that day and have found lots of
> very helpful information.
>
> March 4th, the day we got the dx, he started one month of Casodex. Two
> weeks later, on March 17, was the first Trelstar shot and the second one
> on April 17th. He is going for 44 sessions of IMRT and started radiation
> on April 28th.
>
> Kevin has a history of migraines and before the dx they had become more
> frequent. (Maybe because the cancer was already messing with him?) In
> the last 2 weeks, he has started have a migraine or sinus headache
> everyday. About two weeks ago he started taking Toprol for the
> migraines, so far no relief.
>
> Having a migraine or sinus headache everyday isn't fun, but the more
> important issue is that it is making it very hard for him to get an
> exercise program started.
>
> Any ideas about the headaches being related to Trelstar or the IMRT?
>
> Thanks,
> sue
>
> psa 2.2 10/05, 4.1 8/07, 7.9 12/07
> DRE 1/24/08 - showed firmess in one area
> biopsy 2/20/08 - all 12 G9
> Casodex - 30 days started 3/4/08
> Trelstar 3/1708, 4/17/08
> IMRT - 44 treatments started 4/28/08

Sorry to hear it. You must be frightened.

I had IMRT and never experienced any headaches nor do I recall anyone else
mentioning them. On the other hand it doesn't seem unreasonable that, given
someone had a history of migraines, stress would aggravate them.


--
Dedman

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Steve Jordan wrote:
> On May 8, Sue wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
>> Having a migraine or sinus headache everyday isn't fun, but the more
>> important issue is that it is making it very hard for him to get an
>> exercise program started.
>>
>> Any ideas about the headaches being related to Trelstar or the IMRT?
>
> I have no medical qualifications other than a history of PCa and also
> migraines.
>
> I very much doubt that Trelstar or IMRT are causing the headaches,
> although "headache" is listed as a side effect in 5% of the clinical
> test subjects. More likely, it's the stress.
>
> See, http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/treldepo.htm

Thanks, for some things experience is more important then a medical degree.

Even though he is very calm about his cancer, it might be the stress of
handling work/treatments/appointments and home life that is stressing
him. As I think about this more, it might even be the fatigue setting in
that is making his migranes worse.

Thanks Steve.

sue

Dedman wrote:

> Sorry to hear it. You must be frightened.

Thanks. At first we were both shocked, but are doing ok now.

> I had IMRT and never experienced any headaches nor do I recall anyone else
> mentioning them. On the other hand it doesn't seem unreasonable that, given
> someone had a history of migraines, stress would aggravate them.

Kevin has always been very calm about his prostate cancer. After talking
with some people today and doing a little more research, I am leaning
towards stree of handling work/treatments/appointment etc as the cause
of his increased migranes. Another thought is that fatigue from the IMRT
is the cause.

Thanks Dedman!

sue

"sue mullen" <kjmullen@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:68gkusF2t2sglU1@mid.individual.net...

> My husband Kevin was dx with aggressive prostate cancer on March 4, 2008.
> I have been lurking here since that day and have found lots of very
> helpful information.

I am very sorry, Sue. This is certainly devastating to you and Kevin. What
is his age, if you don't mind?

> Having a migraine or sinus headache everyday isn't fun, but the more
> important issue is that it is making it very hard for him to get an
> exercise program started.

I don't know what causes migraine headaches, but I have never heard of
migraines being a side effect of ADT, RT, or Chemo.

> psa 2.2 10/05, 4.1 8/07, 7.9 12/07

I'm surprosed things did get going with that 4.1, but with a Gleason 9 in
all 12, it probably would have made very little difference.

Again, Sue, you have my sympathy. Regardless of his reaction to the
treatment, this is going to be a significant change to your lives.


--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04, <0.05, <0.04, <0.04, <0.1 2/12/08
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

> Any ideas about the headaches being related to Trelstar or the IMRT?
>
> Thanks,
> sue
>
> psa 2.2 10/05, 4.1 8/07, 7.9 12/07
> DRE 1/24/08 - showed firmess in one area
> biopsy 2/20/08 - all 12 G9
> Casodex - 30 days started 3/4/08
> Trelstar 3/1708, 4/17/08
> IMRT - 44 treatments started 4/28/08

When I mentioned to my radiation oncologist that my 30 plus years of
migraines had come to a screeching halt, he said it was due to the
ADT. I was on Zoladex and Casodex at the time. Even when I
interrupted the ADT for 8 months, no migraines.

-Les

Steve Kramer wrote:
> "sue mullen" <kjmullen@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:68gkusF2t2sglU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>> My husband Kevin was dx with aggressive prostate cancer on March 4, 2008.
>> I have been lurking here since that day and have found lots of very
>> helpful information.
>
> I am very sorry, Sue. This is certainly devastating to you and Kevin. What
> is his age, if you don't mind?

Thanks Steve, Kevin turned 65 in March. When we were given the dx we
were in shock, but we are both doing ok now. Our acupuncturist said she
has never seen anyone as calm about their cancer as Kevin is.

>> Having a migraine or sinus headache everyday isn't fun, but the more
>> important issue is that it is making it very hard for him to get an
>> exercise program started.
>
> I don't know what causes migraine headaches, but I have never heard of
> migraines being a side effect of ADT, RT, or Chemo.

I think his migraines might be from stress. Even though he is calm about
the cancer, he is still concerned about the time he is takiing off from
work. He is working full time, just leaving a little early each day to
go for IMRT. He will be talking to his urologist before getting the next
shot, will continue working with our PCP and also our acupuncturist.

>> psa 2.2 10/05, 4.1 8/07, 7.9 12/07
>
> I'm surprosed things did get going with that 4.1, but with a Gleason 9 in
> all 12, it probably would have made very little difference.

Our PCP told him at that point to go see the urologist, but Kevin was
traveling alot for work and didn't take the time to make an appointment.
Also the PCP had indicated he did not think it was likely to be
cancer, wrong thing to say. I hope the wait did not make a difference,
but that is in the past.

> Again, Sue, you have my sympathy. Regardless of his reaction to the
> treatment, this is going to be a significant change to your lives.

Kevin is very upbeat and handling his cancer very well, I do ok most of
the time. This has already changed our lives in many ways and we are
working on ways to make life easier for both of us. Even though his
Radiation Oncologist says the 44 IMRT treatments should be all he needs,
we know that for the rest of his life he will have to keep checking that
all is still ok.

thanks,
sue

alva36@gmail.com wrote:
>> Any ideas about the headaches being related to Trelstar or the IMRT?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> sue
>>
>> psa 2.2 10/05, 4.1 8/07, 7.9 12/07
>> DRE 1/24/08 - showed firmess in one area
>> biopsy 2/20/08 - all 12 G9
>> Casodex - 30 days started 3/4/08
>> Trelstar 3/1708, 4/17/08
>> IMRT - 44 treatments started 4/28/08
>
> When I mentioned to my radiation oncologist that my 30 plus years of
> migraines had come to a screeching halt, he said it was due to the
> ADT. I was on Zoladex and Casodex at the time. Even when I
> interrupted the ADT for 8 months, no migraines.

This is fantastic for you and I only wish the same would be true for
Kevin. How long had you been on Zoladex and Casodex when your migraines
stopped?

thanks,
sue

"sue mullen" <kjmullen@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:68hoh6F2r9jl0U1@mid.individual.net...

> Thanks Steve, Kevin turned 65 in March. When we were given the dx we were
> in shock, but we are both doing ok now. Our acupuncturist said she has
> never seen anyone as calm about their cancer as Kevin is.

Sounds like a good man.

But, take care with reality. There have been very few men here who have
reacted to the diagnosis with any similarity to they way they have reacted
to anything else before or since. Robert Young, a Marine in Korea, went
home and broke down as soon as he entered his kitchen by the back door and
cried like a baby. I'd estimate more than half became depressed and
required medical assistance for that. I myself faced many situations in my
life and fared well with all, and to all who knew me, was never phased much
by the dx. But, in reality, I was barely maintaining boyancy for more than
a year. I suspect his migraines will calm down as time passes.

> I think his migraines might be from stress. Even though he is calm about
> the cancer, he is still concerned about the time he is takiing off from
> work. He is working full time, just leaving a little early each day to go
> for IMRT.

Both ADT and IMRT will, by themselves, cause fatigue. IMRT will also cause
urinary tract and colon irritation. During RT, I drank gallons of water to
combat the irritations. I walked 3-5 miles a day, 3-5 days a week (of
course I built up to that before RT). I slept an extra hour every night.
In my spare time, I worked 40-50 hours a week. But, I didn't try ADT, IMRT
and chemo all at once.

> cancer, wrong thing to say. I hope the wait did not make a difference, but
> that is in the past.

PCa is a slow growing disease. Even a Gleason 9 would not have grown from 1
core to 12 cores in less than a year (I think).



--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04, <0.05, <0.04, <0.04, <0.1 2/12/08
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

"sue mullen" <kjmullen@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:68hoh6F2r9jl0U1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
> Steve Kramer wrote:
>> "sue mullen" <kjmullen@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:68gkusF2t2sglU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> I am very sorry, Sue. This is certainly devastating to you and
>> Kevin. What is his age, if you don't mind?
>
> Thanks Steve, Kevin turned 65 in March. When we were given the dx we
> were in shock, but we are both doing ok now. Our acupuncturist said
> she has never seen anyone as calm about their cancer as Kevin is.
>
>>> Having a migraine or sinus headache everyday isn't fun, but the more
>>> important issue is that it is making it very hard for him to get an
>>> exercise program started.
>>
>> I don't know what causes migraine headaches, but I have never heard
>> of migraines being a side effect of ADT, RT, or Chemo.
>
> I think his migraines might be from stress. Even though he is calm
> about the cancer, he is still concerned about the time he is takiing
> off from work. He is working full time, just leaving a little early
> each day to go for IMRT. He will be talking to his urologist before
> getting the next shot, will continue working with our PCP and also our
> acupuncturist.

Hi Sue.....

I started to write earlier because I do suffer from rather nasty
migraines and can certainly sympathize with Kevin. And while most of
mine are triggered by barometric pressure drops, stress is a real
biggie!! And even though Kevin seems to be calm, this has to have hit
you both like a ton of bricks. We were in your shoes exactly 5 years
ago and I well remember how we felt.

Does Kevin know of any particular triggers for migraines prior to the
diagnosis?? Once I was aware of mine, it helped in that I would take my
medication sooner. It is often hard to tell whether it is a sinus
headache or a migraine if you don't get the visual aura, which I don't.
I have had them for 25 years or so.

Have him talk to his doctor to see what other meds he could try for it.
I happen to use a rather old one containing ergot, but it works for me.
My pharmacist gets them when I do (pressure drop) and she has tried the
newer meds, but there are some side effects she didn't like.

All the best to you and hopefully he can get some relief. People who
don't get them have no idea how debilitating they are. Not to mention
*painful*!!

Cheers.....Heather (wife of Ron)


>

On Thu, 08 May 2008 21:47:19 -0400, sue mullen <kjmullen@comcast.net>
wrote:

>
>
>alva36@gmail.com wrote (quoting Sue):
>>> Any ideas about the headaches being related to Trelstar or the IMRT?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> sue
>>>
>>> psa 2.2 10/05, 4.1 8/07, 7.9 12/07
>>> DRE 1/24/08 - showed firmess in one area
>>> biopsy 2/20/08 - all 12 G9
>>> Casodex - 30 days started 3/4/08
>>> Trelstar 3/1708, 4/17/08
>>> IMRT - 44 treatments started 4/28/08
>>
Alva wrote:
>> When I mentioned to my radiation oncologist that my 30 plus years of
>> migraines had come to a screeching halt, he said it was due to the
>> ADT. I was on Zoladex and Casodex at the time. Even when I
>> interrupted the ADT for 8 months, no migraines.
Sue wrote:
>This is fantastic for you and I only wish the same would be true for
>Kevin. How long had you been on Zoladex and Casodex when your migraines
>stopped?
>

His Sue

I was diagnosed G9 three years ago - had my primary sources (prostate,
seminal vesicle) blasted away into the infinity where they belong by
HIFU but there's lymph node inolvement now. My latest PSA is 6.0 and
PSAD 0.9. I've had no ADT yet but it may be imminent, and no IMRT.

So I can't compare at all with what Kevin may experience - but I write
this for you and Kevin as with similar clinical dx I am in essence
fine, and with all the supportive treatment Kevin is receiving I'm
sure that in many years to come his Pca will be well under control.

For the migraine - which I've had from time to time all my life (I'm
80 now) and has been quite frequent in recent months. As Heather has
already asked, does Kevin get the visual aura, the point being it
warns the migraine is about to begin? I do. If he does, he might
benefit from the discovery I found which has helped me greatly. As
soon as I get it, I drink down all the water I can stomach. The aura
then either fails to develop into its usual intensity, or if does, it
is for much short duration - and the follow-on headache is very much
less and shorter. The whole incident can be finished in twenty
minutes.
The reason for adopting this treatment is that when I was younger, I
noticed I often got migaine when I was playing tennis, which I did a
lot, or jogged. Someone told me they were sure migraine was associated
with dehydration. So I started watering - the rest, as they say, for
me, is history.

So my questions; does Kevin get the aura? If not, does he get any
other pre-warning? Is his work, or his play, very active - where he
could become dehydrated? (When I took water before i jogged/tennised,
and sipped while doing it -no more migraines from that).

In any case, when his migraine begins, he has absolutely nothing to
lose by trying lots of water, all the docs say it's good for you
anyway!

If it doesn't work for him I also (in the UK) get Maxalt (rizatripan)
which one simply puts under the tongue. I have it for when I'm out,
and water isn't available. It seems to work well. But I like to lay
off drugs when an alternative works.

My kind regards and the very best of wishes to Kevin and your very
caring self.
MikeHi

Steve Kramer wrote:

> Sounds like a good man.

Thanks!!

> But, take care with reality. There have been very few men here who have
> reacted to the diagnosis with any similarity to they way they have reacted
> to anything else before or since. Robert Young, a Marine in Korea, went
> home and broke down as soon as he entered his kitchen by the back door and
> cried like a baby. I'd estimate more than half became depressed and
> required medical assistance for that. I myself faced many situations in my
> life and fared well with all, and to all who knew me, was never phased much
> by the dx. But, in reality, I was barely maintaining boyancy for more than
> a year. I suspect his migraines will calm down as time passes.

I am watching him closely and last night pointed out to him that he is
probably stressed because of work. He actually agreed(grin). One thing
that I think what helps us both cope, is that I have Chronic Fatigue
Syndrome and we have been dealing with it together for 20 yrs

Between working with our PCP and our acupunturist, I hope his migranes
will ease up. He will also talk to his urologist when he goes for his
next shot, but will talk to him before getting the shot.

> Both ADT and IMRT will, by themselves, cause fatigue. IMRT will also cause
> urinary tract and colon irritation. During RT, I drank gallons of water to
> combat the irritations. I walked 3-5 miles a day, 3-5 days a week (of
> course I built up to that before RT). I slept an extra hour every night.
> In my spare time, I worked 40-50 hours a week. But, I didn't try ADT, IMRT
> and chemo all at once.

We got lots of printed information from his Radiation Oncologists
office and they also have been very good with any questions either of us
has had. We have also both been on the net doing lots of research, so we
are aware of possible side effects.

Before the cancer he always took a nap after dinner, but could skip it
once in awhile. Now I am making sure he gets his nap "every" night and
doesn't have to run any errands during the week.

Exercise is a big problem since he wasn't exercising previously and we
both know that exercise is very important since he is taking Trelstar.
If he can get the migranes under control, then he should be able to get
an exercise program going. We have an eliptical trainer in the house and
lot of equipment in our HOA clubhouse.

> PCa is a slow growing disease. Even a Gleason 9 would not have grown from 1
> core to 12 cores in less than a year (I think).

I also think this is true, but it really doesn't matter since we can't
go back in time.

sue

Heather wrote:

> I started to write earlier because I do suffer from rather nasty
> migraines and can certainly sympathize with Kevin. And while most of
> mine are triggered by barometric pressure drops, stress is a real
> biggie!!

Kevin is also affected by changes in barometic pressure and stress.

And even though Kevin seems to be calm, this has to have hit
> you both like a ton of bricks. We were in your shoes exactly 5 years
> ago and I well remember how we felt.

Before we got the results of the biopsy, he kept telling himself it
would show he has cancer. I was so mad at him for being negative, but it
must of helped. It didn't take long for him to accept the dx and be ok
with it, he does tend to act like Spock.lol I had problems longer then
he did and at strange times I would think "my husband has cancer" and be
unsettled. Now that the Radiation Oncologist is being so positive, I am
much more relaxed and ok.

> Does Kevin know of any particular triggers for migraines prior to the
> diagnosis?? Once I was aware of mine, it helped in that I would take my
> medication sooner. It is often hard to tell whether it is a sinus
> headache or a migraine if you don't get the visual aura, which I don't.
> I have had them for 25 years or so.

As I said above, he is affected by changes in barometic pressure and
stress and he doesn't get the visual aura. Our PCP just told him to take
his relpax at the first sign of a headache, even if he things it is a
sinus one.

> Have him talk to his doctor to see what other meds he could try for it.
> I happen to use a rather old one containing ergot, but it works for me.
> My pharmacist gets them when I do (pressure drop) and she has tried the
> newer meds, but there are some side effects she didn't like.
>
> All the best to you and hopefully he can get some relief. People who
> don't get them have no idea how debilitating they are. Not to mention
> *painful*!!

Our PCP just put him on Toprol a couple of weeks ago and Kevin is
supposed to go back in a couple of weeks. The doctor already said that
if the Toprol doesn't help, he has other things to give Kevin.

Kevin will also be seeing our acupunturist every week and in the past
she has helped with his headaches.

> Cheers.....Heather (wife of Ron)

Thanks Heather and I hope Ron continues to do well.

sue

MikeHi@anon.co.uk wrote:

> I was diagnosed G9 three years ago - had my primary sources (prostate,
> seminal vesicle) blasted away into the infinity where they belong by
> HIFU but there's lymph node inolvement now. My latest PSA is 6.0 and
> PSAD 0.9. I've had no ADT yet but it may be imminent, and no IMRT.
>
> So I can't compare at all with what Kevin may experience - but I write
> this for you and Kevin as with similar clinical dx I am in essence
> fine, and with all the supportive treatment Kevin is receiving I'm
> sure that in many years to come his Pca will be well under control.

Thank you, we are also sure that everything will be ok. His Radiation
Oncologist who is very conservative, told Kevin that he believes the
current IMRT plan should be all he needs to get rid of the cancer. We
all know that doctors are afraid of lawsuits, so his being so positive
means a lot.


> As Heather has
> already asked, does Kevin get the visual aura, the point being it
> warns the migraine is about to begin?

No, he doesn't, but our PCP just told him to take his migrane meds at
the first sign of a headache, even if he doesn't think it is a migrane.
The doctor is a migrane sufferer himself and like Kevin does, he used to
wait and hope the headache would go away.

> So my questions; does Kevin get the aura? If not, does he get any
> other pre-warning? Is his work, or his play, very active - where he
> could become dehydrated? (When I took water before i jogged/tennised,
> and sipped while doing it -no more migraines from that).
>
> In any case, when his migraine begins, he has absolutely nothing to
> lose by trying lots of water, all the docs say it's good for you
> anyway!

He does not get an aura and he doesn't normally do anything that would
dehydrate him. I have been hearing from a lot of people about
dehydration and migranes and I am pushing Kevin to increase his water
intake. He should be drinking alot anyway because of urinary problems.

> If it doesn't work for him I also (in the UK) get Maxalt (rizatripan)
> which one simply puts under the tongue. I have it for when I'm out,
> and water isn't available. It seems to work well. But I like to lay
> off drugs when an alternative works.

We are both big fans of alternative medicine, it is the only thing that
has helped me with my Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

> My kind regards and the very best of wishes to Kevin and your very
> caring self.
> MikeHi

Thanks so much, I am giving Kevin all the postings so he can read them
for himself.

sue

From http://www.bentham.org/cds/samples/cds1-1/Ferrari.pdf

During therapy with bicalutamide, a nonsteroidal
antiandrogen, indicated to treat prostate cancer, headache,
dizziness, fatigue, confusion have been reported [185].

Table 6. Percentages of Headache, as an Adverse Effect, that
have been Associated with Hormonal Agents and
Dopamine Agonists.

The table shows that 7% of headaches caused by Hormonal Agents and
Dopamine Agonists were due to bicalutamide (generic Casodex).

Reference 195 is Product Information: Casodex(R), bicalutamide. Zeneca
Pharmaceuticals,
Wilmington, DE (PI revised 09/2000).


I.P.

I.P. Freely wrote:

> From http://www.bentham.org/cds/samples/cds1-1/Ferrari.pdf

(snip)

Tomaytoe/tomahtoe.

"Associated with" does not equal "caused by."

See the rxlist site with the reliable information I posted above.

Regards,

Steve J

I.P. Freely wrote:
> From http://www.bentham.org/cds/samples/cds1-1/Ferrari.pdf
>
> During therapy with bicalutamide, a nonsteroidal
> antiandrogen, indicated to treat prostate cancer, headache,
> dizziness, fatigue, confusion have been reported [185].
>
> Table 6. Percentages of Headache, as an Adverse Effect, that
> have been Associated with Hormonal Agents and
> Dopamine Agonists.
>
> The table shows that 7% of headaches caused by Hormonal Agents and
> Dopamine Agonists were due to bicalutamide (generic Casodex).
>
> Reference 195 is Product Information: Casodex(R), bicalutamide. Zeneca
> Pharmaceuticals,
> Wilmington, DE (PI revised 09/2000).
>
>
> I.P.

Oops ... that's reference 185 typed with a Bandaid on my "8" finger.

I.P.

I.P. Freely wrote:
> From http://www.bentham.org/cds/samples/cds1-1/Ferrari.pdf
>
> During therapy with bicalutamide, a nonsteroidal
> antiandrogen, indicated to treat prostate cancer, headache,
> dizziness, fatigue, confusion have been reported [185].
>
> Table 6. Percentages of Headache, as an Adverse Effect, that
> have been Associated with Hormonal Agents and
> Dopamine Agonists.
>
> The table shows that 7% of headaches caused by Hormonal Agents and
> Dopamine Agonists were due to bicalutamide (generic Casodex).
>
> Reference 195 is Product Information: Casodex(R), bicalutamide. Zeneca
> Pharmaceuticals,
> Wilmington, DE (PI revised 09/2000).

Kevin only took Casodex(bicalutamide) for a month and had no problems
while taking it. His migranes started getting worse after he started the
Trelstar. Looking up some of the ADTs on rxlist, mayo clinic etc, it
seems they all show headaches as a common side effect.

I am giving him this link to look at further and see if it is any help.

thanks,
sue

Steve Jordan wrote:
> I.P. Freely wrote:
>
>> From http://www.bentham.org/cds/samples/cds1-1/Ferrari.pdf
>
> (snip)
>
> Tomaytoe/tomahtoe.
>
> "Associated with" does not equal "caused by."
>
> See the rxlist site with the reliable information I posted above.

rxlist and the Mayo Clinic websites are my favorite places to look.

sue

sue mullen wrote:
> Looking up some of the ADTs on rxlist, mayo clinic etc, it
> seems they all show headaches as a common side effect.

RXList reports that 12% of pts on Trelstar report headaches, and that it
has not been tested for other drug interactions. See
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/trelstar.htm .

I.P.

sue mullen wrote:
>
>
> Steve Jordan wrote:
>> I.P. Freely wrote:
>>
>>> From http://www.bentham.org/cds/samples/cds1-1/Ferrari.pdf
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>> Tomaytoe/tomahtoe.
>>
>> "Associated with" does not equal "caused by."
>>
>> See the rxlist site with the reliable information I posted above.
>
> rxlist and the Mayo Clinic websites are my favorite places to look.

Caused by, schmaused by ... if I'm trying to resolve a new problem with
my racing machines, my garden, or my body, the first thing I look at is
the most recent change I made. I don't need no steenkin' proof just yet
if that fixes the problem. There are a plethora of ADT drugs on the
market; I'd find a way to stop the migraines, then actually ferret out
the medical cause and/or just try different meds, depending on my med
onc's advice and my trust in same. ADT is fuzzy enough as a treatment to
begin with, and its administration protocol is even fuzzier, so I'd
worry more about the migraines than about the precise drug or protocol
used to deplete my testosterone. I can look for lesser alligators after
slaying or deterring the 15-footer in my face, and I'm guessing daily
migraines compare to at least a 12-footer. Once the doc has found a way
to mitigate the migraines AND suppress my T, then and only then might I
feel I have the time and peace of mind to determine whether a given drug
has been clinically proved to cause migraine headaches. i.e., if another
mainstream ADT drug keeps the T down and replaces the migraines with
occasional hangnails or an annual hot flash, I'd let the med schools
worry about large population proof.

I.P.

On May 10, Mike Freely wrote:

> sue mullen wrote:
>> Looking up some of the ADTs on rxlist, mayo clinic etc, it seems they
>> all show headaches as a common side effect.
>
> RXList reports that 12% of pts on Trelstar report headaches, and that it
> has not been tested for other drug interactions. See
> http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/trelstar.htm .

Yes, do see that link. It will show that Mike is wrong.

The headaches are reported for *12 of 174* of the study cohort. That is
6.9%.

It's a pity that Mike is so anxious to convince the world that -- well,
that what? We're all gonna die, die, diddly-aye die?

True enough, but there is no reason at all to roll over and suffer
because we fail to take steps to prevent misery.

And so far as drug interactions is concerned: so what is the
significance of that? And what should patients do about it?

Regards,

Steve J

"There is nothing sadder than the brutal murder of a beautiful theory by
a gang of ugly facts."
--Francois, Duc de la Rochefoucauld

On Sat, 10 May 2008 15:51:29 -0700, Steve Jordan <mycroftscj1@cox.net>
wrote:

>On May 10, Mike Freely wrote:
>
>> sue mullen wrote:
>>> Looking up some of the ADTs on rxlist, mayo clinic etc, it seems they
>>> all show headaches as a common side effect.
>>
Steve wrote:
>> RXList reports that 12% of pts on Trelstar report headaches, and that it
>> has not been tested for other drug interactions. See
>> http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/trelstar.htm .
>
>Yes, do see that link. It will show that Mike is wrong.
>
>The headaches are reported for *12 of 174* of the study cohort. That is
>6.9%.
>
>It's a pity that Mike is so anxious to convince the world that -- well,
>that what? We're all gonna die, die, diddly-aye die?
>
>True enough, but there is no reason at all to roll over and suffer
>because we fail to take steps to prevent misery.
>
>And so far as drug interactions is concerned: so what is the
>significance of that? And what should patients do about it?
>
>Regards,
>
>Steve J
>
>"There is nothing sadder than the brutal murder of a beautiful theory by
>a gang of ugly facts."
>--Francois, Duc de la Rochefoucauld

On Sat, 10 May 2008 15:51:29 -0700, Steve Jordan <mycroftscj1@cox.net>
wrote:

>On May 10, Mike Freely wrote:
>
>> sue mullen wrote:
>>> Looking up some of the ADTs on rxlist, mayo clinic etc, it seems they
>>> all show headaches as a common side effect.
>>
>> RXList reports that 12% of pts on Trelstar report headaches, and that it
>> has not been tested for other drug interactions. See
>> http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/trelstar.htm .
>
>Yes, do see that link. It will show that Mike is wrong.
>
>The headaches are reported for *12 of 174* of the study cohort. That is
>6.9%.
>
>It's a pity that Mike is so anxious to convince the world that -- well,
>that what? We're all gonna die, die, diddly-aye die?
>
>True enough, but there is no reason at all to roll over and suffer
>because we fail to take steps to prevent misery.
>
>And so far as drug interactions is concerned: so what is the
>significance of that? And what should patients do about it?
>
>Regards,
>
>Steve J
>
>"There is nothing sadder than the brutal murder of a beautiful theory by
>a gang of ugly facts."
>--Francois, Duc de la Rochefoucauld

Hi Steve

Mr Freely is, so far as I am aware none other than' I.P.' I am, as I
last remembered, the only 'Mike' in this thread. Can I just clear up
that your references above to'Mike' were not directed at my very
delicate frame? I'm getting a touch of the Kafka's at the moment!

Kind regards
MikeHi

On May 11, MikeHi wrote:

> Mr Freely is, so far as I am aware none other than' I.P.' I am, as I
> last remembered, the only 'Mike' in this thread. Can I just clear up
> that your references above to'Mike' were not directed at my very
> delicate frame? I'm getting a touch of the Kafka's at the moment!

No need for that :-)

The first line in my post of May 10 was

> On May 10, Mike Freely wrote:

Kick back, have a Refreshing Beverage.

Regards,

Steve J

It looks like most of the ADT drugs do have headaches as a possible side
effect. If it is 5% or 12% it doesn't really matter since Kevin is
having headaches.

He will be talking to his urologist about the headache/Trelstar
connecton and if it makes sense to try a different ADT. He isn't having
any hot flashes, so maybe staying with the Trelstar is the right thing
to do. Only he and his urologist can decide this.

In the meantime he is already working with our PCP and will be working
with our acupuncturist to deal with his migranes.

Thanks everyone!

sue

On Sun, 11 May 2008 10:29:13 -0700, Steve Jordan <mycroftscj1@cox.net>
wrote:

>On May 11, MikeHi wrote:
>
>> Mr Freely is, so far as I am aware none other than' I.P.' I am, as I
>> last remembered, the only 'Mike' in this thread. Can I just clear up
>> that your references above to'Mike' were not directed at my very
>> delicate frame? I'm getting a touch of the Kafka's at the moment!
>
Steve replied:
>No need for that :-)
>
>The first line in my post of May 10 was
>
>> On May 10, Mike Freely wrote:
>
>Kick back, have a Refreshing Beverage.
>
>Regards,
>
>Steve J
>
OK. I'll ask kh what goes with the Frito-lays.

P.S. I actually think my Mr Freely - the' I.P.' one - has a lot going
for his arguments about ADT - (he said, while hastily disappearing
behind quickly erected barricade)..

mikehi@anon.com wrote:
> Steve Jordan wrote

>> Yes, do see that link. It will show that Mike is wrong.
>>
>> The headaches are reported for *12 of 174* of the study cohort. That is
>> 6.9%.

Steve is right; I misread the chart. No excuse.

But at least I found some data and linked Sue to it. Did anyone else
(not in my killfile) even try?

>> It's a pity that Mike is so anxious to convince the world ...

Steve, please get a life. I suspect many of the adults here are very
tired of your stupid vendetta.

I.P.

On Sun, 11 May 2008 22:42:03 -0700, "I.P. Freely"
<fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow> wrote:

>mikehi@anon.com wrote:
>> Steve Jordan wrote
>
>>> Yes, do see that link. It will show that Mike is wrong.
>>>
>>> The headaches are reported for *12 of 174* of the study cohort. That is
>>> 6.9%.
>
>Steve is right; I misread the chart. No excuse.
>
>But at least I found some data and linked Sue to it. Did anyone else
>(not in my killfile) even try?
>
>>> It's a pity that Mike is so anxious to convince the world ...
>
>Steve, please get a life. I suspect many of the adults here are very
>tired of your stupid vendetta.
>
>I.P.

OOOps! There we are. Here we go. AS I thought. I was sitting at home
minding my own business when I suddenly saw the name 'Mike' thrown
into the ring by Steve when he was having a row with IPF. But Steve
assured me he wasn't meaning me (MikeHi) at all, he meant, somehow or
other, 'Mike' IPF. (Read thread carefully) BUT as I thought the
damage was done. And sure 'nuff read the above - and it's STILL me ,
quietly having a bath on this occasion, returning and finding I'm
still the one wandering, dazed, bloodied and bowed in no-man's land
wondering how the hell I got in the middle of all this again while in
my bathtub.

To ALL readers of this newsgroup. Here Ye Here Ye. It is NOT I having
a vendetta with Steve, IPF or anybody else. I love and respect all and
every contributor to the aforesaid ng, and if I didn't aforesay it I
meant a.s.p.c. I NEVER uttered or typed a single syllable, word or
para on ANY stats about headaches. All I ever did, honest, sob sob,
was advise Sue that I have found water to be the best treatment for my
migraine. THAT'S ALL! And that's what you get!

I'm getting a migraine again, can't think why, but watch out any
repeater of such uncivilised behaviour. My lawyers are the
internationally famous, even notorious, Sue Grabbit & Run. So watch
it. Get it right.

Mike HI

mikehi@anon.com wrote:

> To ALL readers of this newsgroup. Here Ye Here Ye. It is NOT I having
> a vendetta

You're in the clear, Mike. No one who's been here for more than a few
months had any doubt who Steve was needling yet again. It's been his
stock in trade for a few years now, and no one has had much luck
persuading him to live up to his promise to knock it off. Those who
haven't killfiled him just consider the source and ignore it. Sorry you
got some of his spittle splattered on you.

I.P.

On May 13, Mike Hi wrote:

(ka-snip)

> To ALL readers of this newsgroup. Here Ye Here Ye. It is NOT I having
> a vendetta with Steve, IPF or anybody else.

(su-nip)

I very much doubt that anyone has confused Mike Hi and Mike "Freely".

As for "Freely", Mike is his true first name. I prefer to use it on
those few occasions when something he has written impels me to respond.

Mike Hi is unaware of the history of the thin-skinned Mike "Freely," who
has made it clear that he believes that Bad Persons are out to get him
and that he must use a pseudo name and fake address to save himself.

Also note that he did not respond to my wonderment about his proclivity
to issue manifestos on perceived problems but rarely if ever to propose
solutions. Instead he complained that I was picking on him.

I did not surrender my right to criticize what he writes; I did agree
not to pick on him.

Regards,

Steve J

mikehi@anon.com wrote:


> All I ever did, honest, sob sob,
> was advise Sue that I have found water to be the best treatment for my
> migraine. THAT'S ALL! And that's what you get!

That was good advice and I have heard it many places. The only problem
is the more fluid/water he drinks, the more often he has to urinate and
that includes at night.

> I'm getting a migraine again, can't think why, but watch out any
> repeater of such uncivilised behaviour. My lawyers are the
> internationally famous, even notorious, Sue Grabbit & Run. So watch
> it. Get it right.

LOL......I have been around newsgroups a long time and have no need to
run. I am pretty good about figuring out who to pay attention to and who
to ignore.

It seem as if Kevin's Toprol is beginning to help. Next up is diarrhea
starting from the IMRT.

sue

<mikehi@anon.com> wrote in message
news:dgui24d1osij61ir46bk60f42r9rt798ar@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 22:42:03 -0700, "I.P. Freely"
> <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow> wrote:
>
>>mikehi@anon.com wrote:
>>> Steve Jordan wrote
>>
>>>> Yes,