Veteran's Day

Thank you veterans for the service you provided, here and abroad, for me, my
family, our country and countries friendly to us. Including, of course,
those of you that I know are veterans:

Dave LaCourse
Canada Bob
Alan Meyer
Jim Thomas
c palmer
Gary Nichols
I P Freely
David S
WebDon



And those I do not know.

I thank God for you all, my father, my son, and my Godson who graduates
Parris Island on December 8.

--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06, 6/06
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

You can add hubby and I to that list. We met when we were both in the Navy.

Jean & Larry

"Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9i45h.26546$OE1.9778@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> Thank you veterans for the service you provided, here and abroad, for me,
> my family, our country and countries friendly to us. Including, of
> course, those of you that I know are veterans:
>
> Dave LaCourse
> Canada Bob
> Alan Meyer
> Jim Thomas
> c palmer
> Gary Nichols
> I P Freely
> David S
> WebDon
>
>
>
> And those I do not know.
>
> I thank God for you all, my father, my son, and my Godson who graduates
> Parris Island on December 8.
>
> --
> PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
> Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
> RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
> PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
> EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
> PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
> Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
> 2/06, 6/06
> PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
> Casodex added daily 07/06
> PSA <0.04
> Non Illegitimi Carborundum
>
>

On the day before Veteran's Day, once known as Armistice Day, Steve
Kramer wrote:
> Thank you veterans for the service you provided, here and abroad, for me, my
> family, our country and countries friendly to us.
(snip)

You're welcome.

Regards,

Steve J

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and
degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing
is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is
willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal
safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill

"Jean" <jeand@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4e45h.1794$mR4.1007@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> You can add hubby and I to that list. We met when we were both in the
> Navy.
>
> Jean & Larry

Thank you both!

And, IP, thank your wife for me please.




--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06, 6/06
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

Steve, thanks for that thought.

JerryW
U.S.Army, 9/66 - 7/69

"Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9i45h.26546$OE1.9778@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> Thank you veterans for the service you provided, here and abroad, for me,
> my family, our country and countries friendly to us. Including, of
> course, those of you that I know are veterans:
>
> Dave LaCourse
> Canada Bob
> Alan Meyer
> Jim Thomas
> c palmer
> Gary Nichols
> I P Freely
> David S
> WebDon
>
>
>
> And those I do not know.
>
> I thank God for you all, my father, my son, and my Godson who graduates
> Parris Island on December 8.
>
> --
> PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
> Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
> RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
> PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
> EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
> PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
> Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
> 2/06, 6/06
> PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
> Casodex added daily 07/06
> PSA <0.04
> Non Illegitimi Carborundum
>
>

From Bob C, U.S. Navy about the same dates as JerryW, you are entirely
welcome. ( could not go without identifying at least one Navy man here!)
"Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9i45h.26546$OE1.9778@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> Thank you veterans for the service you provided, here and abroad, for me,
> my family, our country and countries friendly to us. Including, of
> course, those of you that I know are veterans:
>
> Dave LaCourse
> Canada Bob
> Alan Meyer
> Jim Thomas
> c palmer
> Gary Nichols
> I P Freely
> David S
> WebDon
>
>
>
> And those I do not know.
>
> I thank God for you all, my father, my son, and my Godson who graduates
> Parris Island on December 8.
>
> --
> PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
> Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
> RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
> PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
> EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
> PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
> Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
> 2/06, 6/06
> PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
> Casodex added daily 07/06
> PSA <0.04
> Non Illegitimi Carborundum
>
>

Steve Kramer wrote:
> Thank you veterans for the service you provided, here and abroad, for me, my
> family, our country and countries friendly to us. Including, of course,
> those of you that I know are veterans:
>
> Dave LaCourse
> Canada Bob
> Alan Meyer
> Jim Thomas
> c palmer
> Gary Nichols
> I P Freely
> David S
> WebDon
> >
> And those I do not know.
>
I salute you for writing this! And lets include all those serving in
Iraq and those who have been severely wounded.

Also, let us acknowledge our British friends who fought beside us and
are fighting beside us now. I came across this anecdote and thought it
was so beautiful so I'm going to share it:

(From Franklin and Winston by Jon Meacham)

Few dramatists could match the poignant scene when Britain stood alone
against the Nazi power that dominated a conquered or fawningly neutral
Europe. Roosevelt sent his envoy Harry Hopkins to Churchill. At
dinner Hopkins quoted from the book of Ruth:

"Whither thou goest, I will go,
Where thy lodgest, I will lodge.
thy people shall be my people,
and their God my God.

softly adding "Even to the end."

Those two had a real love for each other. Imagine diplomats talking
that way now. Love W.S. - he's one of my heroes.

All the best,


Leah

I trump the "thank you" to all veterans. My son just got back from
Special Forces assignments overseas after nearly 3 years which included
35 combat missions. We all owe our freedoms to past veterans - THANKS.

Rich

i saw on the local news tonight, where they interviewed veterans from
the iraq war that had served and got out and back into civilian life.

they have spent several months looking for a job locally. none to be
had. they are willing to work and learn, but nobody is hiring them.
they have sold off some of the prize possessions in order to live and
buy gas. they are thinking about moving out of the area in order to
find work.

then the tv crew went the local employment businesses and ask them that
same question. here's the response they got.....

they were told that while the veteran was away fighting the war, the
people they were helping were getting more skills and education. the
military skills wouldn't transfer for the job openings that they have
available. and rather than give the veteran a chance to prove
themselves, they are giving the job to the one who he defended.

then, as a left handed twist type comment, the business people said that
they are trying to work with the vet. go tell that to the same two guys
who have been there and turned away from the same place that was being
interviewed.

seems to me, that if the public wants to honor the vet and make them
proud of not only defending this great country, then, why not give them
a shot at a job when they come back from serving.

and while i'm speaking on this soap box - let me add one more thing.

the gov't says that it's the law, that if a person who is a veteran who
had a job and was called to duty, that when they come off duty, that the
employer shall give them a job. what the law doesn't say is the type of
job. i've known men who had great supervisor jobs paying good money,
only to come back to work and be offered a job pushing a broom.
somehow, that doesn't sound very honorable for someone who pay the price
so great.

ok..... i'm off my soap box...

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc

Steve Kramer wrote:

> And, IP, thank your wife for me please.

Will do. She'll appreciate that. Her Air Force service was in civilian
clothes, but it was equivalent to that of her military partners, short
of combat. She worked with more operational troops than I did, and
respects them to the core.

I.P.

callalily wrote:
>
>
> (From Franklin and Winston by Jon Meacham)
>
> Few dramatists could match the poignant scene when Britain stood alone
> against the Nazi power that dominated a conquered or fawningly neutral
> Europe. Roosevelt sent his envoy Harry Hopkins to Churchill. At
> dinner Hopkins quoted from the book of Ruth:
>
> "Whither thou goest, I will go,
> Where thy lodgest, I will lodge.
> thy people shall be my people,
> and their God my God.
>
> softly adding "Even to the end."
>
> Those two had a real love for each other. Imagine diplomats talking
> that way now. Love W.S. - he's one of my heroes.

And look now at how Tony Blair has been treated by his countrymen. I
fear Europe -- maybe the free world -- will rue the day he leaves power.

I.P.

c palmer wrote:
> i saw on the local news tonight, where they interviewed veterans from
> the iraq war that had served and got out and back into civilian life.
> nobody is hiring them.
> rather than give the veteran a chance to prove
> themselves, they are giving the job to the one who he defended.

Part of that problem is that civilian employers have no clue about one
form of training that Marines, for example, receive that none of their
civilian applicants get: leadership. Most three-stripers or NCOs can
manage rings around just about any recent college graduate, and has a
can-do attitude very few college kids can even comprehend, let alone match.

Any squid can learn on-the-job the TASKS involved in most jobs not
requiring college degrees. But who's the most valuable person in most
complex undertakings? An outstanding leader. Just as the operational
services learned decades ago, a good leader can usually do more with a
dozen followers than a bad leader can do with a hundred.

Sounds like our military and national leaders need to better educate
employers as to their troops' qualifications beyond bomb-loading and
sniping.

I.P.

"callalily" <lfcjjk@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1163199824.410771.304880@b28g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...

> Love W.S. - he's one of my heroes.

Ha! I have one of his posted on my bulletin board as well. His "never give
up" spiel.



--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06, 6/06
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

"c palmer" <PALMER_ENT@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3898-45551990-317@storefull-3213.bay.webtv.net...
>
> i saw on the local news tonight, where they interviewed veterans from
> the iraq war that had served and got out and back into civilian life.
>
> they have spent several months looking for a job locally. none to be
> had. they are willing to work and learn, but nobody is hiring them.

Well, then the companies are stupid. I ALWAYS give the nod to a veteran.
Not out of loyalty (well maybe some of that) but because they are always, or
almost always, squared away. It is a real boon to train new people who have
already learned that which cannot be taught in a business setting. In my
eyes, college is good, age is better, military is still better.

Steve Kramer wrote:
> "callalily" <lfcjjk@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1163199824.410771.304880@b28g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>
> > Love W.S. - he's one of my heroes.
>
> Ha! I have one of his posted on my bulletin board as well. His "never give
> up" spiel.
>
Hello--

I just came across it and I think it is just one of the most powerful
things ever said. (Blood, sweat and tears? There are a whole lot of
other "stick it out" type quotes.)

BTW, while I was looking up a Churchill quote I came across a quote
from him in which he recommended that people read quotes to learn the
wisdom of the ages, so to speak. So I joined "quotations.com."

Best to you,

Leah

if you get to hear a chance to hear the song "the 8th of november" by
big and rich, please do so. it has been a big hit across the country.

it is based on the true happenings of that day in vietnam and they are
going to repeat the special show on the CMT channel this weekend on the
the making of the 8th of november with the person who was responsible
for the song itself. a 25 year veteran who was one of the survivors.

big and rich explain how they all met and they take a camera crew back
to vietnam to the exact hill that the song is written about.

the climax of the show - was the closure for "niles". in a 10 foot
deep crater that was made where a B-52 dropped a bomb, they made a hole
in the bottom of that crater and buried the boots that they had to cut
off the "niles" on the 8th of november when his leg was shot up - the
person who the song is written about.

also, big and rich took this one step further. they are giving a
concert at the georgia army base to raise money for the memorial to
honor all the fallen heroes of the 173rd.

other singers have joined in for this effort.

here's the lyrics....

BIG & RICH LYRICS

"8th Of November"

Said goodbye to his momma as he left South Dakota
To fight for the red, white and blue
He was 19 and green with a new M-16
Just doing what he had to do
He was dropped in the jungle where the choppers would rumble
With the smell of napalm in the air
And the sergeant said...look up ahead
Like a dark evil cloud, 1,200 came down on him and 29 more
They fought for their lives but most of them died in the 173rd Airborne

[Chorus:]
On the 8th of November the angels were crying
As they carried his brothers away
With the fire raining down and the hell all around
There were few men left standing that day
Saw the eagle fly through a clear blue sky
1965, the 8th of November

Now he's 58 and his pony tail's gray
But the battle still plays in his head
He limps when he walks but he's strong when he talks
About the Shrapnel they left in his leg
He puts on a gray suit over his Airborne tattoo
And he ties it on one time a year
And remembers the fallen as he orders a tall one
And swallows it down with his tears

[Chorus]
Saw the eagle fly through a clear blue sky
1965...
On the 8th of November the angels were crying
As they carried his brother away
With the fire raining down and the hell all around
There were few men left standing that day

[Chorus]
Said goodbye to his momma as he left South Dakota
TO fight for the red, white and blue
He was nineteen and green with a new M-16
Just doing what he had to do

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc

"Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9i45h.26546$OE1.9778@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> Thank you veterans for the service you provided, here and abroad, for me, my family, our
> country and countries friendly to us. Including, of course, those of you that I know
> are veterans:
....
> Alan Meyer
....

I must confess, I am not a veteran.

My battles during the Vietnam War were at home. But I
might qualify for a purple heart since I got gassed, clubbed,
arrested, investigated, spied upon, and vilified for my
anti-war activities during the war.

However I agree wholeheartedly with Steve's sentiment.
My thanks also to those who risked their lives in the service
of their country. I have not always agreed with America's
war policy but I have always believed that we should support
our troops.

Alan

Alan Meyer wrote:
> I have not always agreed with America's
> war policy but I have always believed that we should support
> our troops.

That's a commonly expressed self-contradiction I still can't reconcile.

I.P.

How about adding another USNavy man to that list!
Very respectfully,
Scrapiro
Bob C wrote:
> From Bob C, U.S. Navy about the same dates as JerryW, you are entirely
> welcome. ( could not go without identifying at least one Navy man here!)
> "Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:9i45h.26546$OE1.9778@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
>> Thank you veterans for the service you provided, here and abroad, for me,
>> my family, our country and countries friendly to us. Including, of
>> course, those of you that I know are veterans:
>>
>> Dave LaCourse
>> Canada Bob
>> Alan Meyer
>> Jim Thomas
>> c palmer
>> Gary Nichols
>> I P Freely
>> David S
>> WebDon
>>
>>
>>
>> And those I do not know.
>>
>> I thank God for you all, my father, my son, and my Godson who graduates
>> Parris Island on December 8.
>>
>> --
>> PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
>> Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
>> RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
>> PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
>> EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
>> PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
>> Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
>> 2/06, 6/06
>> PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
>> Casodex added daily 07/06
>> PSA <0.04
>> Non Illegitimi Carborundum
>>
>>
>
>

"scrapiro" <scrapiro@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:EOmdnQIMBvs7y8vYnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> How about adding another USNavy man to that list!
> Very respectfully,
> Scrapiro


JerryW
Jean & Larry
Bob C

scrapiro
Dave LaCourse
Califchief
Canada Bob
Stephen Jordan
Jim Thomas
c palmer
Gary Nichols
I P Freely & Mrs

David S
WebDon

In Flanders Fields
By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)
Canadian Army

IN FLANDERS FIELDS the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.


A toast to absent friends.

****Crash****

Steve J

Thank you......that always brings tears to my eyes. Dr. McCrae was from
Guelph, Ontario where I was born. My beloved uncle who died at 41 as a
result of what we now call PTSS after 5 years in WW2 was also from
there.

This poem is what inspires every Canadian to wear a poppy on their lapel
from Nov 1st until today which we call "Remembrance Day". The services
at the War Memorials today were very moving when people covered the Tomb
of the Unknown Soldier with their poppies.

Heather

"Steve Jordan" <mycroftscj1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:%6t5h.2670$hM5.1152@newsfe12.phx...
> In Flanders Fields
> By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)
> Canadian Army
>
> IN FLANDERS FIELDS the poppies blow
> Between the crosses row on row,
> That mark our place; and in the sky
> The larks, still bravely singing, fly
> Scarce heard amid the guns below.
>
> We are the Dead. Short days ago
> We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
> Loved and were loved, and now we lie
> In Flanders fields.
>
> Take up our quarrel with the foe:
> To you from failing hands we throw
> The torch; be yours to hold it high.
> If ye break faith with us who die
> We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
> In Flanders fields.
>
>
> A toast to absent friends.
>
> ****Crash****
>
> Steve J

You can add my hubby to the list. United States Air Force, Vietnam Vet. He
was a Navy brat who served his country with pride. His father served in WWII
and his grandfather served in WWI.
Also Danny McC. served in the military and I think in Vietnam. (I don't
remember which branch.) And Clyde is a Vietnam vet.
Bev

"Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9i45h.26546$OE1.9778@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.. .
> Thank you veterans for the service you provided, here and abroad, for me,
my
> family, our country and countries friendly to us. Including, of course,
> those of you that I know are veterans:
>
> Dave LaCourse
> Canada Bob
> Alan Meyer
> Jim Thomas
> c palmer
> Gary Nichols
> I P Freely
> David S
> WebDon
>
>
>
> And those I do not know.
>
> I thank God for you all, my father, my son, and my Godson who graduates
> Parris Island on December 8.
>
> --
> PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
> Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
> RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
> PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
> EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
> PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
> Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
> 2/06, 6/06
> PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
> Casodex added daily 07/06
> PSA <0.04
> Non Illegitimi Carborundum
>
>

Beverley wrote:

> You can add my hubby to the list. United States Air Force, Vietnam Vet.
> He was a Navy brat who served his country with pride.

I was conceived in Hawaii and born in North Carolina - in the
Navy recruiting office where dad was stationed. <g>

Mom came into his work and said, "I thing it's time."

It was! Ready or not, here I come. <g>

Family moved to California, Boston - started school 1 year after
Pearl Harbor and 2 weeks before the Ccoconut Grove fire.

Moved to Newport News, VA for the second half of the 2nd
grade and the 3rd grade. Moved back to California and
completed schooling here.

"I.P. Freely" <fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow> wrote in message
news:kJn5h.52$LK7.4@newsfe05.lga...
> Alan Meyer wrote:
>> I have not always agreed with America's
>> war policy but I have always believed that we should support
>> our troops.
>
> That's a commonly expressed self-contradiction I still can't reconcile.
>
> I.P.

I don't see any contradiction. You can believe that the soldiers
are doing their best and sacrificing themselves in an altruistic
way without believing that the decisions that sent them to war
were the right ones.

My support for the troops doesn't mean I think they should
be fighting in Iraq. But I do admire their courage, and their
willingness to make sacrifices and take risks for their comrades
and for what they see as their duty.

I am, of course, excepting those soldiers who take the
wrong course - for example the soldiers at My Lai or at
Abu Ghraib. I don't support them.

Alan

"Beverley" <beverly.brown28@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:i1x5h.212$Jd3.190@trnddc07...


> remember which branch.) And Clyde is a Vietnam vet.
> Bev

Lomax?

--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06, 6/06
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04
Non Illegitimi Carborundum