How long to live? Stage 4 Colorectal Cancer

81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo].
Stage IV Colorectal cancer.

Tumor is the size of a fist. Doctors describe cancer as 'advanced
stage'

About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live?


thanks

I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:

> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo].
> Stage IV Colorectal cancer.
>
> Tumor is the size of a fist. Doctors describe cancer as 'advanced
> stage'
>
> About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live?

Hard to know.
What's the doctor or the rest of the family or hospice saying?
J

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:06:12 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
stuff here :

>I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>
>> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo].
>> Stage IV Colorectal cancer.
>>
>> Tumor is the size of a fist. Doctors describe cancer as 'advanced
>> stage'
>>
>> About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live?
>
>Hard to know.
>What's the doctor or the rest of the family or hospice saying?
>J

That's the problem, the doctors would not commit to an answer.
We nearly begged one doctor and he said less than one year which in my
opinion is NOT an answer.

Do you know where I could find a 'close' answer?

I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:

> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:06:12 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
> stuff here :
>
> >I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
> >
> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo].
> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer.
> >>
> >> Tumor is the size of a fist. Doctors describe cancer as 'advanced
> >> stage'
> >>
> >> About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live?
> >
> >Hard to know.
> >What's the doctor or the rest of the family or hospice saying?
> >J
>
> That's the problem, the doctors would not commit to an answer.
> We nearly begged one doctor and he said less than one year which in my
> opinion is NOT an answer.
>
> Do you know where I could find a 'close' answer?

Is he up and about, eating and does he have a bypass for his waste ?
Cancer can sometimes be slower growing in the elderly.
Is he bedridden, jaundiced, lost weight, anemic, bleeding, trouble
breathing, on oxygen, got a catheter, in serious pain in his abdomen or
spine?
Is he in hospital in bed ? or at home and active? Steady or having falls?
Taking care of himself or too weak and in bed?
J - trying to help

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:16:44 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
stuff here :

>I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:06:12 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
>> stuff here :
>>
>> >I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>> >
>> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo].
>> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer.
>> >>
>> >> Tumor is the size of a fist. Doctors describe cancer as 'advanced
>> >> stage'
>> >>
>> >> About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live?
>> >
>> >Hard to know.
>> >What's the doctor or the rest of the family or hospice saying?
>> >J
>>
>> That's the problem, the doctors would not commit to an answer.
>> We nearly begged one doctor and he said less than one year which in my
>> opinion is NOT an answer.
>>
>> Do you know where I could find a 'close' answer?
>
>Is he up and about, eating and does he have a bypass for his waste ?
>Cancer can sometimes be slower growing in the elderly.
>Is he bedridden, jaundiced, lost weight, anemic, bleeding, trouble
>breathing, on oxygen, got a catheter, in serious pain in his abdomen or
>spine?
>Is he in hospital in bed ? or at home and active? Steady or having falls?
>Taking care of himself or too weak and in bed?
>J - trying to help

This person has a colostomey and is in a nursing home for now. No Pain
but is unable to do anything on their own.

thanks for helping.

I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:

> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:16:44 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
> stuff here :
>
> >I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:06:12 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
> >> stuff here :
> >>
> >> >I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo].
> >> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer.
> >> >>
> >> >> Tumor is the size of a fist. Doctors describe cancer as 'advanced
> >> >> stage'
> >> >>
> >> >> About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live?
> >> >
> >> >Hard to know.
> >> >What's the doctor or the rest of the family or hospice saying?
> >> >J
> >>
> >> That's the problem, the doctors would not commit to an answer.
> >> We nearly begged one doctor and he said less than one year which in my
> >> opinion is NOT an answer.
> >>
> >> Do you know where I could find a 'close' answer?
> >
> >Is he up and about, eating and does he have a bypass for his waste ?
> >Cancer can sometimes be slower growing in the elderly.
> >Is he bedridden, jaundiced, lost weight, anemic, bleeding, trouble
> >breathing, on oxygen, got a catheter, in serious pain in his abdomen or
> >spine?
> >Is he in hospital in bed ? or at home and active? Steady or having falls?
> >Taking care of himself or too weak and in bed?
> >J - trying to help
>
> This person has a colostomey and is in a nursing home for now. No Pain
> but is unable to do anything on their own.
>
> thanks for helping.

My uncle lived 6.5 months. He died of pneumonia, not the cancer, and was
around the same age as your grandfather.
It's hard to know because sometimes their heart's in bad shape, or alzheimer's
and they just slip away, or they get a blood clot or bleed.
Why do you want to know please?
Does the family want to bring him home and have hospice help? I think a letter
from the oncologist or the primary care physician saying he's not likely to
live 6 months would get him coverage for hospice? and coverage beyond, if he
lives longer.

ff your're hoping to go see him but can't due to distance and finances,
probably best speak with him on the phone, in case you don't get the chance
later.

I'll watch for your reply.
J

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:45:56 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
stuff here :

>
>
>I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:16:44 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
>> stuff here :
>>
>> >I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:06:12 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
>> >> stuff here :
>> >>
>> >> >I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo].
>> >> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Tumor is the size of a fist. Doctors describe cancer as 'advanced
>> >> >> stage'
>> >> >>
>> >> >> About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live?
>> >> >
>> >> >Hard to know.
>> >> >What's the doctor or the rest of the family or hospice saying?
>> >> >J
>> >>
>> >> That's the problem, the doctors would not commit to an answer.
>> >> We nearly begged one doctor and he said less than one year which in my
>> >> opinion is NOT an answer.
>> >>
>> >> Do you know where I could find a 'close' answer?
>> >
>> >Is he up and about, eating and does he have a bypass for his waste ?
>> >Cancer can sometimes be slower growing in the elderly.
>> >Is he bedridden, jaundiced, lost weight, anemic, bleeding, trouble
>> >breathing, on oxygen, got a catheter, in serious pain in his abdomen or
>> >spine?
>> >Is he in hospital in bed ? or at home and active? Steady or having falls?
>> >Taking care of himself or too weak and in bed?
>> >J - trying to help
>>
>> This person has a colostomey and is in a nursing home for now. No Pain
>> but is unable to do anything on their own.
>>
>> thanks for helping.
>
>My uncle lived 6.5 months. He died of pneumonia, not the cancer, and was
>around the same age as your grandfather.
>It's hard to know because sometimes their heart's in bad shape, or alzheimer's
>and they just slip away, or they get a blood clot or bleed.
>Why do you want to know please?
>Does the family want to bring him home and have hospice help? I think a letter
>from the oncologist or the primary care physician saying he's not likely to
>live 6 months would get him coverage for hospice? and coverage beyond, if he
>lives longer.
>
>ff your're hoping to go see him but can't due to distance and finances,
>probably best speak with him on the phone, in case you don't get the chance
>later.
>
>I'll watch for your reply.

It's grandmother, I didn't mention that to you. She has Emphysema and
Congestive heart disease both.

Incontinence both areas also, I doubt Hospice would be willing to deal
with that?

Does this give a better picture?

I DO appreciate your help.

"I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS" <cheesewheels@crazyfactory.cheese> wrote in message
news:nl59l3p7iedtmdv6rgd41tipi4lsns827u@bbb.org...
> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:16:44 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
> stuff here :
>
>>I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:06:12 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
>>> stuff here :
>>>
>>> >I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo].
>>> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer.
>>> >>
>>> >> Tumor is the size of a fist. Doctors describe cancer as 'advanced
>>> >> stage'
>>> >>
>>> >> About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live?
>>> >
>>> >Hard to know.
>>> >What's the doctor or the rest of the family or hospice saying?
>>> >J
>>>
>>> That's the problem, the doctors would not commit to an answer.
>>> We nearly begged one doctor and he said less than one year which in my
>>> opinion is NOT an answer.
>>>
>>> Do you know where I could find a 'close' answer?
>>
>>Is he up and about, eating and does he have a bypass for his waste ?
>>Cancer can sometimes be slower growing in the elderly.
>>Is he bedridden, jaundiced, lost weight, anemic, bleeding, trouble
>>breathing, on oxygen, got a catheter, in serious pain in his abdomen or
>>spine?
>>Is he in hospital in bed ? or at home and active? Steady or having falls?
>>Taking care of himself or too weak and in bed?
>>J - trying to help
>
> This person has a colostomey and is in a nursing home for now. No Pain
> but is unable to do anything on their own.
>
> thanks for helping.

The nurses in the nursing home should be able to help you. Many nursing
homes have pallative teams.
Alex
>

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:41:17 -0500, "xela56" <noaccount@nw.nl> wrote
this stuff here :

>
>"I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS" <cheesewheels@crazyfactory.cheese> wrote in message
>news:nl59l3p7iedtmdv6rgd41tipi4lsns827u@bbb.org.. .
>> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:16:44 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
>> stuff here :
>>
>>>I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:06:12 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
>>>> stuff here :
>>>>
>>>> >I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo].
>>>> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Tumor is the size of a fist. Doctors describe cancer as 'advanced
>>>> >> stage'
>>>> >>
>>>> >> About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live?
>>>> >
>>>> >Hard to know.
>>>> >What's the doctor or the rest of the family or hospice saying?
>>>> >J
>>>>
>>>> That's the problem, the doctors would not commit to an answer.
>>>> We nearly begged one doctor and he said less than one year which in my
>>>> opinion is NOT an answer.
>>>>
>>>> Do you know where I could find a 'close' answer?
>>>
>>>Is he up and about, eating and does he have a bypass for his waste ?
>>>Cancer can sometimes be slower growing in the elderly.
>>>Is he bedridden, jaundiced, lost weight, anemic, bleeding, trouble
>>>breathing, on oxygen, got a catheter, in serious pain in his abdomen or
>>>spine?
>>>Is he in hospital in bed ? or at home and active? Steady or having falls?
>>>Taking care of himself or too weak and in bed?
>>>J - trying to help
>>
>> This person has a colostomey and is in a nursing home for now. No Pain
>> but is unable to do anything on their own.
>>
>> thanks for helping.
>
>The nurses in the nursing home should be able to help you. Many nursing
>homes have pallative teams.
>Alex

You're saying nurses can tell me how long my grandmother approximately
has to live?

I thought an oncologist, which is impossible to see apparently, was
the person to do this?

thanks

> You're saying nurses can tell me how long my grandmother approximately
> has to live?
>
> I thought an oncologist, which is impossible to see apparently, was
> the person to do this?
>
> thanks
>

No one can tell how long a person can live. Nurses assess your grandmother
on a daily basis, they can tell if she is improving or declining. An
oncologist can look at the disease and perform a clinical assessment and
give you their opinion. Given the two you can make an educated guess.

I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS <cheesewheels@crazyfactory.cheese> wrote in
news:m3d9l3t0i50c05ku6gme9h1te5cb34lki0@bbb.org:

> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:45:56 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
> stuff here :
>
>>
>>
>>I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:16:44 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
>>> stuff here :
>>>
>>> >I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:06:12 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote
>>> >> this stuff here :
>>> >>
>>> >> >I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo].
>>> >> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Tumor is the size of a fist. Doctors describe cancer as
>>> >> >> 'advanced stage'
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to
>>> >> >> live?
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Hard to know.
>>> >> >What's the doctor or the rest of the family or hospice saying?
>>> >> >J
>>> >>
>>> >> That's the problem, the doctors would not commit to an answer.
>>> >> We nearly begged one doctor and he said less than one year which
>>> >> in my opinion is NOT an answer.
>>> >>
>>> >> Do you know where I could find a 'close' answer?
>>> >
>>> >Is he up and about, eating and does he have a bypass for his waste
>>> >? Cancer can sometimes be slower growing in the elderly.
>>> >Is he bedridden, jaundiced, lost weight, anemic, bleeding, trouble
>>> >breathing, on oxygen, got a catheter, in serious pain in his
>>> >abdomen or spine?
>>> >Is he in hospital in bed ? or at home and active? Steady or having
>>> >falls? Taking care of himself or too weak and in bed?
>>> >J - trying to help
>>>
>>> This person has a colostomey and is in a nursing home for now. No
>>> Pain but is unable to do anything on their own.
>>>
>>> thanks for helping.
>>
>>My uncle lived 6.5 months. He died of pneumonia, not the cancer, and
>>was around the same age as your grandfather.
>>It's hard to know because sometimes their heart's in bad shape, or
>>alzheimer's and they just slip away, or they get a blood clot or
>>bleed. Why do you want to know please?
>>Does the family want to bring him home and have hospice help? I think
>>a letter from the oncologist or the primary care physician saying he's
>>not likely to live 6 months would get him coverage for hospice? and
>>coverage beyond, if he lives longer.
>>
>>ff your're hoping to go see him but can't due to distance and
>>finances, probably best speak with him on the phone, in case you don't
>>get the chance later.
>>
>>I'll watch for your reply.
>
> It's grandmother, I didn't mention that to you. She has Emphysema and
> Congestive heart disease both.
>
> Incontinence both areas also, I doubt Hospice would be willing to deal
> with that?
>
> Does this give a better picture?
>
> I DO appreciate your help.
>
>
It varies by where you live & maybe her insurance coverage (medicare?),
but in Colorado, hospice services can be delivered in a nursing home,
wherever the patient calls home. They can offer services the nursing
home does not. They can help the patient prepare for death in many
ways. They can provide comforts, medications & help you & the rest of
your family deal with issues surrounding losing your grandmother. The
nursing home would continue to provide its services.

Since hospice services are usually included at no charge, you might
benefit financially from her being in hospice care. Her oxygen, for
example, may be covered, if it is not already.

Here, the guideline is a year or less of expected ramaining life to
qualify for hospice, but that can vary too.

If I were you, I would check into hospice as an option. The nursing
home or her insurance provider are good places to start asking.

It's really hard for anyone to predict how long someone will live until
death is very close. With her multiple health issues, it's even more
complicated.

If you live at some distance & are trying to decide when to visit, I
would choose soon, or maybe family members want to plan to visit at
different times?

Figgertoes

"I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS" <cheesewheels@crazyfactory.cheese> wrote in message
news:14l8l35egt7k9r41bjo1lsgnp3rm07hcdl@bbb.org...
> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo].
> Stage IV Colorectal cancer.
>
> Tumor is the size of a fist. Doctors describe cancer as 'advanced
> stage'
>
> About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live?
>
>
> thanks
>

You can't predict for an individual. Sorry if that is inconvenient, but it's
true. Median survival in these circumstances is about 6 months. But median
survival mean 50% of patients do better, some much better, and 50% do worse,
some much worse.

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:40:50 GMT, "Steph" <steph@vancouvers.island>
wrote this stuff here :

>"I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS" <cheesewheels@crazyfactory.cheese> wrote in message
>news:14l8l35egt7k9r41bjo1lsgnp3rm07hcdl@bbb.org.. .
>> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo].
>> Stage IV Colorectal cancer.
>>
>> Tumor is the size of a fist. Doctors describe cancer as 'advanced
>> stage'
>>
>> About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live?
>>
>>
>> thanks
>>
>
>You can't predict for an individual. Sorry if that is inconvenient, but it's
>true. Median survival in these circumstances is about 6 months. But median
>survival mean 50% of patients do better, some much better, and 50% do worse,
>some much worse.
>


In our modern computerized world I guess it's hard to accept we can't
predict such things.

Perhaps I can explain this to my mother and she might understand it.

thanks

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 07:05:16 -0000, Figgertoes
<agent01413@my-deja.com> wrote this stuff here :

>I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS <cheesewheels@crazyfactory.cheese> wrote in
>news:m3d9l3t0i50c05ku6gme9h1te5cb34lki0@bbb.org :
>
>> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:45:56 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
>> stuff here :
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:16:44 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote this
>>>> stuff here :
>>>>
>>>> >I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:06:12 -0500, J <nswex@nalid;non> wrote
>>>> >> this stuff here :
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo].
>>>> >> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Tumor is the size of a fist. Doctors describe cancer as
>>>> >> >> 'advanced stage'
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to
>>>> >> >> live?
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Hard to know.
>>>> >> >What's the doctor or the rest of the family or hospice saying?
>>>> >> >J
>>>> >>
>>>> >> That's the problem, the doctors would not commit to an answer.
>>>> >> We nearly begged one doctor and he said less than one year which
>>>> >> in my opinion is NOT an answer.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Do you know where I could find a 'close' answer?
>>>> >
>>>> >Is he up and about, eating and does he have a bypass for his waste
>>>> >? Cancer can sometimes be slower growing in the elderly.
>>>> >Is he bedridden, jaundiced, lost weight, anemic, bleeding, trouble
>>>> >breathing, on oxygen, got a catheter, in serious pain in his
>>>> >abdomen or spine?
>>>> >Is he in hospital in bed ? or at home and active? Steady or having
>>>> >falls? Taking care of himself or too weak and in bed?
>>>> >J - trying to help
>>>>
>>>> This person has a colostomey and is in a nursing home for now. No
>>>> Pain but is unable to do anything on their own.
>>>>
>>>> thanks for helping.
>>>
>>>My uncle lived 6.5 months. He died of pneumonia, not the cancer, and
>>>was around the same age as your grandfather.
>>>It's hard to know because sometimes their heart's in bad shape, or
>>>alzheimer's and they just slip away, or they get a blood clot or
>>>bleed. Why do you want to know please?
>>>Does the family want to bring him home and have hospice help? I think
>>>a letter from the oncologist or the primary care physician saying he's
>>>not likely to live 6 months would get him coverage for hospice? and
>>>coverage beyond, if he lives longer.
>>>
>>>ff your're hoping to go see him but can't due to distance and
>>>finances, probably best speak with him on the phone, in case you don't
>>>get the chance later.
>>>
>>>I'll watch for your reply.
>>
>> It's grandmother, I didn't mention that to you. She has Emphysema and
>> Congestive heart disease both.
>>
>> Incontinence both areas also, I doubt Hospice would be willing to deal
>> with that?
>>
>> Does this give a better picture?
>>
>> I DO appreciate your help.
>>
>>
>It varies by where you live & maybe her insurance coverage (medicare?),
>but in Colorado, hospice services can be delivered in a nursing home,
>wherever the patient calls home. They can offer services the nursing
>home does not. They can help the patient prepare for death in many
>ways. They can provide comforts, medications & help you & the rest of
>your family deal with issues surrounding losing your grandmother. The
>nursing home would continue to provide its services.
>
>Since hospice services are usually included at no charge, you might
>benefit financially from her being in hospice care. Her oxygen, for
>example, may be covered, if it is not already.
>
>Here, the guideline is a year or less of expected ramaining life to
>qualify for hospice, but that can vary too.
>
>If I were you, I would check into hospice as an option. The nursing
>home or her insurance provider are good places to start asking.
>
>It's really hard for anyone to predict how long someone will live until
>death is very close. With her multiple health issues, it's even more
>complicated.
>
>If you live at some distance & are trying to decide when to visit, I
>would choose soon, or maybe family members want to plan to visit at
>different times?
>
>Figgertoes

I had no idea hospice did that much.
Thanks

"I love Cheesewheels" wrote :

"About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live?"

Dear Cheese-wheel-lover,

I and many other people have found this article by Stephen Jay Gould, the
famous paleontologist, science writer, historian of science :

http://cancerguide.org/median_not_msg.html

Very helpful, and comforting, in coming to grips with what the "odds" ...
the statistical numbers ... for a given form of cancer mean for ourselves in
our struggle with cancer, or for family members, or anyone facing a
life-threatening illness.

Gould had cancer of the stomach lining at age 41, and had a difficult
treatment, but a complete recovery. He wrote the above article "The Median
is not the Message" for Discover magazine reflecting his own research into
what the statistics for people with stomach lining cancer really "meant."

Gould himself died of metastatic lung cancer at only 60 years of age.

best, Uncle Sally