Liver cancer diagnosis

I've told this group about my 76 year old father who has battled
(stage 3) esophageal cancer since last spring. He had surgery, chemo
and radiation. He had his last round of chemo in September and it
wasn't until last week that they gave him another full body PET
following an Upper GI. That seems very drawn out to me. His esophagus
is ulcerated and that can be treated with meds, but then the
oncologist informs my parents that the PET scan shows inoperable liver
cancer and after being pressed admitted that 3-6 months of life was a
realistic estimate for such an aggressive liver cancer. Today he gets
a CAT scan of his liver to see if he's a candidate for
chemoemobolization. Though he's very weak and has melted the weight.
In my heart, I feel like the doctors dropped the ball twice on him.
First, not properly sceening his acid reflux two years ago and not
following up after his chemo. As many know, chemo can give rise to a
secondary cancer. So my emotions are up down over and out.
Any ideas or thoughts about liver cancer for someone like my dad?
take care,
Carrie

"Carlisle" <carrie-cox@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:1171553112.581973.231940@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
> I've told this group about my 76 year old father who has battled
> (stage 3) esophageal cancer since last spring. He had surgery, chemo
> and radiation. He had his last round of chemo in September and it
> wasn't until last week that they gave him another full body PET
> following an Upper GI. That seems very drawn out to me. His esophagus
> is ulcerated and that can be treated with meds, but then the
> oncologist informs my parents that the PET scan shows inoperable liver
> cancer and after being pressed admitted that 3-6 months of life was a
> realistic estimate for such an aggressive liver cancer. Today he gets
> a CAT scan of his liver to see if he's a candidate for
> chemoemobolization. Though he's very weak and has melted the weight.
> In my heart, I feel like the doctors dropped the ball twice on him.
> First, not properly sceening his acid reflux two years ago and not
> following up after his chemo. As many know, chemo can give rise to a
> secondary cancer. So my emotions are up down over and out.
> Any ideas or thoughts about liver cancer for someone like my dad?
> take care,
> Carrie
>

The chemo didn't cause the secondary cancer.
And an earlier PET would not have made any difference

On Feb 15, 11:09 am, "Steph" <s...@vancouvers.island> wrote:
> "Carlisle" <carrie-...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1171553112.581973.231940@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > I've told this group about my 76 year old father who has battled
> > (stage 3) esophageal cancer since last spring. He had surgery, chemo
> > and radiation. He had his last round of chemo in September and it
> > wasn't until last week that they gave him another full body PET
> > following an Upper GI. That seems very drawn out to me. His esophagus
> > is ulcerated and that can be treated with meds, but then the
> > oncologist informs my parents that the PET scan shows inoperable liver
> > cancer and after being pressed admitted that 3-6 months of life was a
> > realistic estimate for such an aggressive liver cancer. Today he gets
> > a CAT scan of his liver to see if he's a candidate for
> > chemoemobolization. Though he's very weak and has melted the weight.
> > In my heart, I feel like the doctors dropped the ball twice on him.
> > First, not properly sceening his acid reflux two years ago and not
> > following up after his chemo. As many know, chemo can give rise to a
> > secondary cancer. So my emotions are up down over and out.
> > Any ideas or thoughts about liver cancer for someone like my dad?
> > take care,
> > Carrie
>
> The chemo didn't cause the secondary cancer.
> And an earlier PET would not have made any difference- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

According the American Cancer Association a possible side effect of
chemo is the rise of a secondary cancer. They should have immediately
given him a PET soon after his last round of chemo to see what was up,
IMHO. You may be right, you may be wrong. They let his weight drop 40
lbs, steadily weaken and never recover. My guess is they assumed this
is an old man, looked at their Medicare tabulations and did the basic
SOP. He was a very young 75 a year ago. Maybe he was fated to get
taken down by cancer...But he spent most of that time recovering from
surgery and being ghastly ill from 5FU chemo. He would have done
better to go live on a commune and smoke opium for the last 9
months!!!

Carlisle wrote:

> I've told this group about my 76 year old father who has battled
> (stage 3) esophageal cancer since last spring. He had surgery, chemo
> and radiation. He had his last round of chemo in September and it
> wasn't until last week that they gave him another full body PET
> following an Upper GI. That seems very drawn out to me. His esophagus
> is ulcerated and that can be treated with meds, but then the
> oncologist informs my parents that the PET scan shows inoperable liver
> cancer and after being pressed admitted that 3-6 months of life was a
> realistic estimate for such an aggressive liver cancer. Today he gets
> a CAT scan of his liver to see if he's a candidate for
> chemoemobolization. Though he's very weak and has melted the weight.
> In my heart, I feel like the doctors dropped the ball twice on him.
> First, not properly sceening his acid reflux two years ago and not
> following up after his chemo. As many know, chemo can give rise to a
> secondary cancer. So my emotions are up down over and out.
> Any ideas or thoughts about liver cancer for someone like my dad?
> take care,
> Carrie

hello Carrie,
You sound so tired and discouraged.
Have a hug from me ( ( ( Carrie ) ) )
Your father's primary cancer is esophageal; it has spread (metastacized)
to the liver (secondary).
I think they devised chemoembolization for primary inoperable liver
tumors.

If he's got one or more "mets" to the liver, he's likely got more tumors
that cannot be seen on scans.
This procedure won't prolong his life. The only potential reason for
doing it, is to shrink the tumor if it's causing pain.

I copied this from a procedure web page.
After the procedure, you will receive prescriptions for oral antibiotics,
pain, and nausea. Once home, you may experience fevers for up to a week.
For the first two weeks, fatigue and loss of appetite are common.
# Risks:
Embolus (tiny particles) can lodge in the wrong place and deprive normal
tissue of its blood supply.
# Even if antibiotics are given, there is always a risk of infection after
embolization.
# There is a risk of an allergic reaction to the dye used in the
angiography x-ray.
# There is a risk of kidney damage in patients with diabetes or other
pre-existing kidney disease due to the angiography.
# Nausea, hair loss, decreases in white blood cells and platelets, and
anemia may occur due to the chemotherapy drug.
# After 1 in 20 procedures, serious complications occur and typically
include liver infection or damage to the liver. Liver failure is usually
the cause of the 1 in 100 deaths related to this procedure.

Do you really want to put him through this?
Sometimes radiotherapy can help with liver tumors. (Steph? - I'm not sure
on tumors in the liver)
And there's pain pills...

He's weak and lost weight. The cancer's robbing him of his strength and
weight.
This procedure won't change that.
J

Carlisle wrote:

> On Feb 15, 11:09 am
> According the American Cancer Association a possible side effect of
> chemo is the rise of a secondary cancer. They should have immediately
> given him a PET soon after his last round of chemo to see what was up,
> IMHO. You may be right, you may be wrong. They let his weight drop 40
> lbs, steadily weaken and never recover. My guess is they assumed this
> is an old man, looked at their Medicare tabulations and did the basic
> SOP. He was a very young 75 a year ago. Maybe he was fated to get
> taken down by cancer...But he spent most of that time recovering from
> surgery and being ghastly ill from 5FU chemo. He would have done
> better to go live on a commune and smoke opium for the last 9
> months!!!

Well, I used to tell people of that age, think about it twice for some
cancer/stages.
But surely the surgery and RT helped him eat for a good while?
J

On Feb 15, 11:29 am, J <nexsw@nvalid,anon> wrote:
> Carlisle wrote:
> > I've told this group about my 76 year old father who has battled
> > (stage 3) esophageal cancer since last spring. He had surgery, chemo
> > and radiation. He had his last round of chemo in September and it
> > wasn't until last week that they gave him another full body PET
> > following an Upper GI. That seems very drawn out to me. His esophagus
> > is ulcerated and that can be treated with meds, but then the
> > oncologist informs my parents that the PET scan shows inoperable liver
> > cancer and after being pressed admitted that 3-6 months of life was a
> > realistic estimate for such an aggressive liver cancer. Today he gets
> > a CAT scan of his liver to see if he's a candidate for
> > chemoemobolization. Though he's very weak and has melted the weight.
> > In my heart, I feel like the doctors dropped the ball twice on him.
> > First, not properly sceening his acid reflux two years ago and not
> > following up after his chemo. As many know, chemo can give rise to a
> > secondary cancer. So my emotions are up down over and out.
> > Any ideas or thoughts about liver cancer for someone like my dad?
> > take care,
> > Carrie
>
> hello Carrie,
> You sound so tired and discouraged.
> Have a hug from me ( ( ( Carrie ) ) )
> Your father's primary cancer is esophageal; it has spread (metastacized)
> to the liver (secondary).
> I think they devised chemoembolization for primary inoperable liver
> tumors.
>
> If he's got one or more "mets" to the liver, he's likely got more tumors
> that cannot be seen on scans.
> This procedure won't prolong his life. The only potential reason for
> doing it, is to shrink the tumor if it's causing pain.
>
> I copied this from a procedure web page.
> After the procedure, you will receive prescriptions for oral antibiotics,
> pain, and nausea. Once home, you may experience fevers for up to a week.
> For the first two weeks, fatigue and loss of appetite are common.
> # Risks:
> Embolus (tiny particles) can lodge in the wrong place and deprive normal
> tissue of its blood supply.
> # Even if antibiotics are given, there is always a risk of infection after
> embolization.
> # There is a risk of an allergic reaction to the dye used in the
> angiography x-ray.
> # There is a risk of kidney damage in patients with diabetes or other
> pre-existing kidney disease due to the angiography.
> # Nausea, hair loss, decreases in white blood cells and platelets, and
> anemia may occur due to the chemotherapy drug.
> # After 1 in 20 procedures, serious complications occur and typically
> include liver infection or damage to the liver. Liver failure is usually
> the cause of the 1 in 100 deaths related to this procedure.
>
> Do you really want to put him through this?
> Sometimes radiotherapy can help with liver tumors. (Steph? - I'm not sure
> on tumors in the liver)
> And there's pain pills...
>
> He's weak and lost weight. The cancer's robbing him of his strength and
> weight.
> This procedure won't change that.
> J- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks J. The most cutting edge thing I've read deals with targeted
radiology out of the University of Colorado (I Googled this ng). Thing
is we are not sure if it's primary or metastatic. Common sense would
say the latter. He's not really in pain, just extremely fatigued and
mild digestion problems. I just not ready for my dad to pass
away...I've been very fortunate not to have lost a close loved one in
a very long time. Never this big of a loss. Reality is tough to
accept. Because he is not ready to die. My grandmother died at age 91
four years ago and she was very ready. So we all accepted it, no
sweat. This is different. So yeah I'm upset.
Thanks for the info!
Carrie

"Carlisle" <carrie-cox@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:1171556729.771841.104340@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...
> On Feb 15, 11:09 am, "Steph" <s...@vancouvers.island> wrote:
>> "Carlisle" <carrie-...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1171553112.581973.231940@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > I've told this group about my 76 year old father who has battled
>> > (stage 3) esophageal cancer since last spring. He had surgery, chemo
>> > and radiation. He had his last round of chemo in September and it
>> > wasn't until last week that they gave him another full body PET
>> > following an Upper GI. That seems very drawn out to me. His esophagus
>> > is ulcerated and that can be treated with meds, but then the
>> > oncologist informs my parents that the PET scan shows inoperable liver
>> > cancer and after being pressed admitted that 3-6 months of life was a
>> > realistic estimate for such an aggressive liver cancer. Today he gets
>> > a CAT scan of his liver to see if he's a candidate for
>> > chemoemobolization. Though he's very weak and has melted the weight.
>> > In my heart, I feel like the doctors dropped the ball twice on him.
>> > First, not properly sceening his acid reflux two years ago and not
>> > following up after his chemo. As many know, chemo can give rise to a
>> > secondary cancer. So my emotions are up down over and out.
>> > Any ideas or thoughts about liver cancer for someone like my dad?
>> > take care,
>> > Carrie
>>
>> The chemo didn't cause the secondary cancer.
>> And an earlier PET would not have made any difference- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> According the American Cancer Association a possible side effect of
> chemo is the rise of a secondary cancer.

Very rarely, and 10-15 years later............

However, metastatic disease is very common with oesophageal cancer.

> They should have immediately
> given him a PET soon after his last round of chemo to see what was up,
> IMHO. You may be right, you may be wrong. They let his weight drop 40
> lbs, steadily weaken and never recover. My guess is they assumed this
> is an old man, looked at their Medicare tabulations and did the basic
> SOP. He was a very young 75 a year ago. Maybe he was fated to get
> taken down by cancer...But he spent most of that time recovering from
> surgery and being ghastly ill from 5FU chemo. He would have done
> better to go live on a commune and smoke opium for the last 9
> months!!!
>
>

And if the PET had been done after the last round of chemo? If it had been
negative, they would have done nothing.
If it had been positive, they should have done nothing.

Carlisle wrote in alt.support.cancer:

> In my heart, I feel like the doctors dropped the ball twice on him.

Tell me about it. I have melanoma. Not only did my first GP fail to see it,
my second GP noticed it immediately and sent me to a surgeon who ummed and
aaahed and didn't actually say "yeah, that has to come off".

After the thing was finally removed by a 3rd GP (having already spread to
my lymph nodes) my surgeon let his registrar do the operation to remove 23
of my lymph nodes, 2 years later and it has returned in the same lymph
channels 4 more times and I've had 3 operations on exactly the same spot.

When it came back the 3rd time the same surgeon who let his registrar do
the first operation said he wouldn't bother doing CT scans because it had
come back in the same spot and he was sure it hadn't spread. 2 months later
I find out that the cancer had spread to my lungs *before* the 3rd
operation. That's 2 months of chemo I missed out on while the tumours in my
lungs grew to (almost) golf ball size.

If I was an american I would have sued by now. But I just can't do it. Even
if these guys are incompetent I have to assume they weren't actually out to
kill me. There is also the chance that I could have had perfect treatment
all along and I'd still be terminally ill.

john wrote:

> Carlisle wrote in alt.support.cancer:
>
> > In my heart, I feel like the doctors dropped the ball twice on him.
>
> Tell me about it. I have melanoma. Not only did my first GP fail to see it,
> my second GP noticed it immediately and sent me to a surgeon who ummed and
> aaahed and didn't actually say "yeah, that has to come off".
>
> After the thing was finally removed by a 3rd GP (having already spread to
> my lymph nodes) my surgeon let his registrar do the operation to remove 23
> of my lymph nodes, 2 years later and it has returned in the same lymph
> channels 4 more times and I've had 3 operations on exactly the same spot.
>
> When it came back the 3rd time the same surgeon who let his registrar do
> the first operation said he wouldn't bother doing CT scans because it had
> come back in the same spot and he was sure it hadn't spread. 2 months later
> I find out that the cancer had spread to my lungs *before* the 3rd
> operation. That's 2 months of chemo I missed out on while the tumours in my
> lungs grew to (almost) golf ball size.
>
> If I was an american I would have sued by now. But I just can't do it. Even
> if these guys are incompetent I have to assume they weren't actually out to
> kill me. There is also the chance that I could have had perfect treatment
> all along and I'd still be terminally ill.

I don't think my cousin's lymph nodes were checked.
The way I see it, he went on with his life in "blissful ignorance".
As far as I know, there is no "pefect treatment" for melanoma that has spread.
J

On Feb 15, 10:06 pm, john <n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Carlisle wrote in alt.support.cancer:
>
> > In my heart, I feel like the doctors dropped the ball twice on him.
>
> Tell me about it. I have melanoma. Not only did my first GP fail to see it,
> my second GP noticed it immediately and sent me to a surgeon who ummed and
> aaahed and didn't actually say "yeah, that has to come off".
>
> After the thing was finally removed by a 3rd GP (having already spread to
> my lymph nodes) my surgeon let his registrar do the operation to remove 23
> of my lymph nodes, 2 years later and it has returned in the same lymph
> channels 4 more times and I've had 3 operations on exactly the same spot.
>
> When it came back the 3rd time the same surgeon who let his registrar do
> the first operation said he wouldn't bother doing CT scans because it had
> come back in the same spot and he was sure it hadn't spread. 2 months later
> I find out that the cancer had spread to my lungs *before* the 3rd
> operation. That's 2 months of chemo I missed out on while the tumours in my
> lungs grew to (almost) golf ball size.
>
> If I was an american I would have sued by now. But I just can't do it. Even
> if these guys are incompetent I have to assume they weren't actually out to
> kill me. There is also the chance that I could have had perfect treatment
> all along and I'd still be terminally ill.

Bless your heart. All I can say is...do as much of your own research
as possible. The doctors are overloaded and oftentimes conservative as
opposed to aggressive with tests, treatments, trials and sending you
out for 2nd and 3rd opinions. We are looking into taking my dad up to
the University of Louisville where there is a team of cutting edge
liver cancer specialists. I found this information on the Net.
All the best,
Carrie

Carlisle wrote:

> On Feb 15, 11:29 am, J <nexsw@nvalid,anon> wrote:
> > Carlisle wrote:
> > > I've told this group about my 76 year old father who has battled
> > > (stage 3) esophageal cancer since last spring. He had surgery, chemo
> > > and radiation. He had his last round of chemo in September and it
> > > wasn't until last week that they gave him another full body PET
> > > following an Upper GI. That seems very drawn out to me. His esophagus
> > > is ulcerated and that can be treated with meds, but then the
> > > oncologist informs my parents that the PET scan shows inoperable liver
> > > cancer and after being pressed admitted that 3-6 months of life was a
> > > realistic estimate for such an aggressive liver cancer. Today he gets
> > > a CAT scan of his liver to see if he's a candidate for
> > > chemoemobolization. Though he's very weak and has melted the weight.
> > > In my heart, I feel like the doctors dropped the ball twice on him.
> > > First, not properly sceening his acid reflux two years ago and not
> > > following up after his chemo. As many know, chemo can give rise to a
> > > secondary cancer. So my emotions are up down over and out.
> > > Any ideas or thoughts about liver cancer for someone like my dad?
> > > take care,
> > > Carrie
> >
> > hello Carrie,
> > You sound so tired and discouraged.
> > Have a hug from me ( ( ( Carrie ) ) )
> > Your father's primary cancer is esophageal; it has spread (metastacized)
> > to the liver (secondary).
> > I think they devised chemoembolization for primary inoperable liver
> > tumors.
> >
> > If he's got one or more "mets" to the liver, he's likely got more tumors
> > that cannot be seen on scans.
> > This procedure won't prolong his life. <snip>
> > Sometimes radiotherapy can help with liver tumors.<snip>
> > And there's pain pills...
> >
> > He's weak and lost weight. The cancer's robbing him of his strength and
> > weight.
> > This procedure won't change that.
> > J- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks J. The most cutting edge thing I've read deals with targeted
> radiology out of the University of Colorado (I Googled this ng). Thing
> is we are not sure if it's primary or metastatic. Common sense would
> say the latter. He's not really in pain, just extremely fatigued and
> mild digestion problems. I just not ready for my dad to pass
> away...I've been very fortunate not to have lost a close loved one in
> a very long time. Never this big of a loss. Reality is tough to
> accept. Because he is not ready to die. My grandmother died at age 91
> four years ago and she was very ready. So we all accepted it, no
> sweat. This is different. So yeah I'm upset.
> Thanks for the info!
> Carrie

It was the same with my parents. All but one grandparent outlived my parents and
many of their children by far. Into their early or mid-nineties.

I meant to ask you, Carrie. Are you copying and pasting the previous text back
into your reply?
Isn't it easier to use "Show Options" or "View Options" and the "Reply" higher
up, which then includes the quoted text. And delete out some of the prior text?

I must admit I'm confused. You were asking about chemoembolization, which my
understanding is about inserting chemo via a blood vessel into (usually) larger
inoperable tumors. And now you're talking about "targeted radiology". That's
what external beam radiotherapy is.

There's a way to know if it's primary or secondary. It's called a biopsy (of
the liver met). My suspicion is a good radiologist would, in most cases, be
able to see which, without biopsy, based on the number and locations of the
liver mets.

I realize you want the newest innovation for your father, but given that he's
got 3-6 months, aren't there other things he'd rather be doing? Finishing up
projects, visiting with old pals, relatives, grandkids; doing all those things a
person wants to get done and see, before their life ends? I'm just wondering,
not knowing your father.

I'll be here listening and caring.
J

"Carlisle" <carrie-cox@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:1171743003.997767.67530@j27g2000cwj.googlegro ups.com...
> On Feb 15, 10:06 pm, john <n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Carlisle wrote in alt.support.cancer:
>>
>> > In my heart, I feel like the doctors dropped the ball twice on him.
>>
>> Tell me about it. I have melanoma. Not only did my first GP fail to see
>> it,
>> my second GP noticed it immediately and sent me to a surgeon who ummed
>> and
>> aaahed and didn't actually say "yeah, that has to come off".
>>
>> After the thing was finally removed by a 3rd GP (having already spread to
>> my lymph nodes) my surgeon let his registrar do the operation to remove
>> 23
>> of my lymph nodes, 2 years later and it has returned in the same lymph
>> channels 4 more times and I've had 3 operations on exactly the same spot.
>>
>> When it came back the 3rd time the same surgeon who let his registrar do
>> the first operation said he wouldn't bother doing CT scans because it had
>> come back in the same spot and he was sure it hadn't spread. 2 months
>> later
>> I find out that the cancer had spread to my lungs *before* the 3rd
>> operation. That's 2 months of chemo I missed out on while the tumours in
>> my
>> lungs grew to (almost) golf ball size.
>>
>> If I was an american I would have sued by now. But I just can't do it.
>> Even
>> if these guys are incompetent I have to assume they weren't actually out
>> to
>> kill me. There is also the chance that I could have had perfect treatment
>> all along and I'd still be terminally ill.
>
> Bless your heart. All I can say is...do as much of your own research
> as possible. The doctors are overloaded and oftentimes conservative as
> opposed to aggressive with tests, treatments, trials and sending you
> out for 2nd and 3rd opinions. We are looking into taking my dad up to
> the University of Louisville where there is a team of cutting edge
> liver cancer specialists. I found this information on the Net.
> All the best,
> Carrie

I don't have anything intelligent to add to this thread about treatments. I
read most of the posts with a medical dictionary in my lap because cancer
barged into our home and struck my husband in November. Until then I had no
experience with it, but I just wanted you to know that I lost my dad a few
years ago to heart disease.

He was not ready to go, and we sure weren't ready either. Like you, if it
had been possible, if there had been any way on earth to save him, I would
have done everything within my power. Good luck and God speed. I feel your
pain.

Being a writer, I got a kick out of your comment on the commune...

I'm up for anything that will help my husband, and he is also. I had never
heard of the chemo being run through a vein to the tumor. He has SCLC with
mets to almost everywhere except his fingertips. Chemo has helped make the
tumors much smaller, but he has his last chemo next week, and I don't know
what happens after that.

I am wondering if he would be a candidate for the place in Kentucky that you
mentioned. His cancer started in the lung and then to the liver (did I
already say that?). What do you think ...about the Louisville place for him?

Giuditta

Giuditta

On Feb 18, 1:23 am, J <nexsw@nvalid,anon> wrote:
> Carlisle wrote:
> > On Feb 15, 11:29 am, J <nexsw@nvalid,anon> wrote:
> > > Carlisle wrote:
> > > > I've told this group about my 76 year old father who has battled
> > > > (stage 3) esophageal cancer since last spring. He had surgery, chemo
> > > > and radiation. He had his last round of chemo in September and it
> > > > wasn't until last week that they gave him another full body PET
> > > > following an Upper GI. That seems very drawn out to me. His esophagus
> > > > is ulcerated and that can be treated with meds, but then the
> > > > oncologist informs my parents that the PET scan shows inoperable liver
> > > > cancer and after being pressed admitted that 3-6 months of life was a
> > > > realistic estimate for such an aggressive liver cancer. Today he gets
> > > > a CAT scan of his liver to see if he's a candidate for
> > > > chemoemobolization. Though he's very weak and has melted the weight.
> > > > In my heart, I feel like the doctors dropped the ball twice on him.
> > > > First, not properly sceening his acid reflux two years ago and not
> > > > following up after his chemo. As many know, chemo can give rise to a
> > > > secondary cancer. So my emotions are up down over and out.
> > > > Any ideas or thoughts about liver cancer for someone like my dad?
> > > > take care,
> > > > Carrie
>
> > > hello Carrie,
> > > You sound so tired and discouraged.
> > > Have a hug from me ( ( ( Carrie ) ) )
> > > Your father's primary cancer is esophageal; it has spread (metastacized)
> > > to the liver (secondary).
> > > I think they devised chemoembolization for primary inoperable liver
> > > tumors.
>
> > > If he's got one or more "mets" to the liver, he's likely got more tumors
> > > that cannot be seen on scans.
> > > This procedure won't prolong his life. <snip>
> > > Sometimes radiotherapy can help with liver tumors.<snip>
> > > And there's pain pills...
>
> > > He's weak and lost weight. The cancer's robbing him of his strength and
> > > weight.
> > > This procedure won't change that.
> > > J- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Thanks J. The most cutting edge thing I've read deals with targeted
> > radiology out of the University of Colorado (I Googled this ng). Thing
> > is we are not sure if it's primary or metastatic. Common sense would
> > say the latter. He's not really in pain, just extremely fatigued and
> > mild digestion problems. I just not ready for my dad to pass
> > away...I've been very fortunate not to have lost a close loved one in
> > a very long time. Never this big of a loss. Reality is tough to
> > accept. Because he is not ready to die. My grandmother died at age 91
> > four years ago and she was very ready. So we all accepted it, no
> > sweat. This is different. So yeah I'm upset.
> > Thanks for the info!
> > Carrie
>
> It was the same with my parents. All but one grandparent outlived my parents and
> many of their children by far. Into their early or mid-nineties.
>
> I meant to ask you, Carrie. Are you copying and pasting the previous text back
> into your reply?
> Isn't it easier to use "Show Options" or "View Options" and the "Reply" higher
> up, which then includes the quoted text. And delete out some of the prior text?
>
> I must admit I'm confused. You were asking about chemoembolization, which my
> understanding is about inserting chemo via a blood vessel into (usually) larger
> inoperable tumors. And now you're talking about "targeted radiology". That's
> what external beam radiotherapy is.
>
> There's a way to know if it's primary or secondary. It's called a biopsy (of
> the liver met). My suspicion is a good radiologist would, in most cases, be
> able to see which, without biopsy, based on the number and locations of the
> liver mets.
>
> I realize you want the newest innovation for your father, but given that he's
> got 3-6 months, aren't there other things he'd rather be doing? Finishing up
> projects, visiting with old pals, relatives, grandkids; doing all those things a
> person wants to get done and see, before their life ends? I'm just wondering,
> not knowing your father.
>
> I'll be here listening and caring.
> J

I think she is saying she wants to go to a cancer center where
competent doctors are able to assess the situation and offer cutting
edge medicine.... which is better than getting internet advice

Alex wrote:

> I think she is saying she wants to go to a cancer center where
> competent doctors are able to assess the situation and offer cutting
> edge medicine....

Most, in the US, will give anything they (the cancer patient or loved ones) want
(whether it's a good thing for them or not) as long as they're paid.
And you're on the receiving end of that, aren't you?
J

Apologies, I must correct this.
J

J wrote:

> I meant to ask you, Carrie. Are you copying and pasting the previous text back
> into your reply?
> Isn't it easier to use "Show Options" or "View Options" and the "Reply" higher
> up, which then includes the quoted text. And delete out some of the prior text?

Ignore the above (please Seems like others are doing it as well and it's working.

> I must admit I'm confused. You were asking about chemoembolization, which my
> understanding is about inserting chemo via a blood vessel into (usually) larger
> inoperable tumors.

Chemoembolization kills tumor cells by blocking the blood flow to the tumor and
keeping chemotherapy drugs near the tumor.

If any UK'ers are interested, there's a Phase III clinical trial.
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct/show/NCT00079027
Doxorubicin With or Without Chemoembolization in Treating Patients With Advanced
Unresectable Hepatocellular Carcinoma (Liver Cancer)

Primary Outcomes: Survival
Secondary Outcomes: Overall response; Quality of life as assessed by EORTC QOL
QLQ-30 and EORTC QLQ HCC18 at 10 and 24 weeks; Time to progression as assessed by
RECIST criteria
Expected Total Enrollment: 280
Hospital locations are located at the bottom of that page.
J

<snip>
J wrote:
> I meant to ask you, Carrie. Are you copying and pasting the previous text back
> into your reply?
> Isn't it easier to use "Show Options" or "View Options" and the "Reply" higher
> up, which then includes the quoted text. And delete out some of the prior text?

*Currently I'm posting on usenet via Google groups. I'm not copy and
pasting anything unless it's a link.

>
> I must admit I'm confused. You were asking about chemoembolization, which my
> understanding is about inserting chemo via a blood vessel into (usually) larger
> inoperable tumors. And now you're talking about "targeted radiology". That's
> what external beam radiotherapy is.

*Yes because I'm learning new things each day. I did a search of
"liver cancer specialists" and the Uof Louisville came up first. We
are only an hour and some away. The most cutting edge precedures
involve targeted radiology. Here is the link to the place I'm
contacting tomorrow. We would like a second a opinion and some hope.
http://www.aboutlivertumors.com/TreatmentOptions.aspx

>
> There's a way to know if it's primary or secondary. It's called a biopsy (of
> the liver met). My suspicion is a good radiologist would, in most cases, be
> able to see which, without biopsy, based on the number and locations of the
> liver mets.

*They did a CAT last week and were going to put him off the follow up
for nearly 2 weeks! He finished up his last round of chemo in
September and he just received a full body PET 1/31 after getting
increasingly sick. They took his blood in late December I believe and
didn't catch this. They've drug this out, IMHO. I realize he's senior
citizen, but he was NOT an old man a year ago! I just wonder if the
doctors would want this kind of treatment for themselves? I just want
the oncologist to forward the CAT up to the specialists in L-ville so
we can hold back this cancer if possible.

>
> I realize you want the newest innovation for your father, but given that he's
> got 3-6 months, aren't there other things he'd rather be doing? Finishing up
> projects, visiting with old pals, relatives, grandkids; doing all those things a
> person wants to get done and see, before their life ends? I'm just wondering,
> not knowing your father.

*It's only one doc's opinion that he has 3-6 months and that's if they
don't do anything. He is spending time with family as much as possible
and trying desperately to wrap up his affairs, but he is not ready to
give up! He doesn't want to die before summer for crissake if there
may be something out there that could give him a stay. He loved his
life. He wants to try and fight this. He fought the esophageal and
there are a few different possible treatments for his cancer. First we
need to see if he's a candidate...and time's a wastin'! Then we need
to move! He's a fighter. No, he's not ready to call in hospice, not
when people with inoperable liver cancer are getting life extending
and in some cases I've read life saving treatments. I can't say as I
blame him. It may be too late, but part of that is that after the
chemo, the follow up was passive and this is only my humble non-
medical opinion. Now my mother has to feel guilty for not being more
assertive with the docs. But it's not her job to order tests. An extra
year of life would be appreciated. He's skinny and weak, but not in
any pain. Not ready for death. Age is no indication of will to live.
At some point we will have to accept the inevitable, but I do not
think it's yet. This week will be decisive.

>
> I'll be here listening and caring.
> J-

Thanks, I know you are only trying to be realistic. Medicine and
science has come a long way with liver cancer in the last five years.
You get a death sentence and you think..just maybe we can fight this
back.
Carrie

On Feb 18, 6:58 am, "Giuditta" <jnotma...@giudiittaspeedworks.com>
wrote:
> "Carlisle" <carrie-...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1171743003.997767.67530@j27g2000cwj.googlegro ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 15, 10:06 pm, john <n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Carlisle wrote in alt.support.cancer:
>
> >> > In my heart, I feel like the doctors dropped the ball twice on him.
>
> >> Tell me about it. I have melanoma. Not only did my first GP fail to see
> >> it,
> >> my second GP noticed it immediately and sent me to a surgeon who ummed
> >> and
> >> aaahed and didn't actually say "yeah, that has to come off".
>
> >> After the thing was finally removed by a 3rd GP (having already spread to
> >> my lymph nodes) my surgeon let his registrar do the operation to remove
> >> 23
> >> of my lymph nodes, 2 years later and it has returned in the same lymph
> >> channels 4 more times and I've had 3 operations on exactly the same spot.
>
> >> When it came back the 3rd time the same surgeon who let his registrar do
> >> the first operation said he wouldn't bother doing CT scans because it had
> >> come back in the same spot and he was sure it hadn't spread. 2 months
> >> later
> >> I find out that the cancer had spread to my lungs *before* the 3rd
> >> operation. That's 2 months of chemo I missed out on while the tumours in
> >> my
> >> lungs grew to (almost) golf ball size.
>
> >> If I was an american I would have sued by now. But I just can't do it.
> >> Even
> >> if these guys are incompetent I have to assume they weren't actually out
> >> to
> >> kill me. There is also the chance that I could have had perfect treatment
> >> all along and I'd still be terminally ill.
>
> > Bless your heart. All I can say is...do as much of your own research
> > as possible. The doctors are overloaded and oftentimes conservative as
> > opposed to aggressive with tests, treatments, trials and sending you
> > out for 2nd and 3rd opinions. We are looking into taking my dad up to
> > the University of Louisville where there is a team of cutting edge
> > liver cancer specialists. I found this information on the Net.
> > All the best,
> > Carrie
>
> I don't have anything intelligent to add to this thread about treatments. I
> read most of the posts with a medical dictionary in my lap because cancer
> barged into our home and struck my husband in November. Until then I had no
> experience with it, but I just wanted you to know that I lost my dad a few
> years ago to heart disease.
>
> He was not ready to go, and we sure weren't ready either. Like you, if it
> had been possible, if there had been any way on earth to save him, I would
> have done everything within my power. Good luck and God speed. I feel your
> pain.
>
> Being a writer, I got a kick out of your comment on the commune...
>
> I'm up for anything that will help my husband, and he is also. I had never
> heard of the chemo being run through a vein to the tumor. He has SCLC with
> mets to almost everywhere except his fingertips. Chemo has helped make the
> tumors much smaller, but he has his last chemo next week, and I don't know
> what happens after that.
>
> I am wondering if he would be a candidate for the place in Kentucky that you
> mentioned. His cancer started in the lung and then to the liver (did I
> already say that?). What do you think ...about the Louisville place for him?
>
> Giuditta
>
> Giuditta- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Just in case you missed it, Giuditta. This is the link that has the
info about the liver cancer specialists in Louisville, KY. True that
liver cancer many times come via nodes/ other areas like your
husband's. Check it out.
http://www.aboutlivertumors.com/TreatmentOptions.aspx
Good luck and Godspeed to you too!
Carrie

Carlisle wrote:

> On Feb 18, 6:58 am, "Giuditta" <jnotma...@giudiittaspeedworks.com>
> wrote:
> > I'm up for anything that will help my husband, and he is also. I had never
> > heard of the chemo being run through a vein to the tumor. He has SCLC with
> > mets to almost everywhere except his fingertips. Chemo has helped make the
> > tumors much smaller, but he has his last chemo next week, and I don't know
> > what happens after that.
> >
> > I am wondering if he would be a candidate for the place in Kentucky that you
> > mentioned. His cancer started in the lung and then to the liver (did I
> > already say that?). What do you think ...about the Louisville place for him?
> >
> > Giuditta
> >
>
> Just in case you missed it, Giuditta. This is the link that has the
> info about the liver cancer specialists in Louisville, KY. True that
> liver cancer many times come via nodes/ other areas like your
> husband's. Check it out.
> http://www.aboutlivertumors.com/TreatmentOptions.aspx
> Good luck and Godspeed to you too!
> Carrie

Well, I went to the hospital webpage and those are under "Primary Liver Cancer"
and under Lung cancer there's the standards (surgery, chrmotherapy and Radiation
therapy)
They don't even differentiate treatment modalities between types of lung cancer.

I refuse to promote false hope.
Based on an article I'm about to post, you'd probably both be best getting a 2nd
opinion at a teaching hospital.
J

>
> Thanks, I know you are only trying to be realistic. Medicine and
> science has come a long way with liver cancer in the last five years.
> You get a death sentence and you think..just maybe we can fight this
> back.
> Carrie
>

Medicine has come along way, stats loved to be bantered around on this
newsgroup but you Dad is not a STAT. A doctor is only a man or woman not
God. In some countries people don't have choice and are assigned doctors in
the USA, people have choices. If I was given a terminal diagnosis, I would
explore every available treatment to me. I would also go to a specialist
like you are trying to do. Also if your Dad is terminal, and tries
something new and it fails he has given this gift on knowledge to further
patients. At some point you have to give up, but I won't base it on a
newsgroup on the internet. Of course and some point enough will be enough,
but that is a decision your Dad and his doctor can make.

"J" <nexsw@nvalid,anon> wrote in message
news:45D88141.CAC10BA2@execulink.com...
> Alex wrote:
>
>> I think she is saying she wants to go to a cancer center where
>> competent doctors are able to assess the situation and offer cutting
>> edge medicine....
>
> Most, in the US, will give anything they (the cancer patient or loved
> ones) want
> (whether it's a good thing for them or not) as long as they're paid.
> And you're on the receiving end of that, aren't you?
> J
>

Wow, what an assessment from a Canadian who has NEVER worked as a health
care provider ( Canadian or American) and has never been seen an American
healthcare facility ( internet doesn't count). I doubt you have ever met an
Oncologist in the past decade. There are standards of care based on patient
need not pocketbook also there are ethic committee etc. Many times doctors
and nurses don't get paid for the care the provide. The doctors and nurses
I work with are not in the profession for the money they want to make a
positive difference in a patient's life. For the privilege they have spent
thousands of hours on education, worked holidays and weekends.

Hello John,

I ran into your message accidentally while searching information
regarding Melanoma. I read an article at
http://www.medical-health-care-infor...r-Melanoma.asp

Article says "Melanoma is a form of skin cancer that starts in the
pigment-producing skin cells called melanocytes. These cells become
abnormal, grow uncontrollably, and aggressively invade surrounding
tissues.

Melanoma often is caused by too much sun exposure. Damage to the
genetic material (DNA) of melanocytes from sun exposure and UV light
radiation is a major cause of melanoma. Melanoma can also be caused by
other factors, including a family history of melanoma and the presence
of abnormal, or atypical, moles.

Melanomas detected at an early stage have the best chance for cure.
Surgical removal, or excision, of the melanoma is the most effective
treatment. Surgical removal may be all that is needed for early
melanomas that have not spread, or metastasized, to other parts of the
body."

I hope above information is some helpful for you.

Regards
Monica



On Feb 16, 8:06 am, john <n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Carlisle wrote in alt.support.cancer:
>
> > In my heart, I feel like the doctors dropped the ball twice on him.
>
> Tell me about it. I havemelanoma. Not only did my first GP fail to see it,
> my second GP noticed it immediately and sent me to a surgeon who ummed and
> aaahed and didn't actually say "yeah, that has to come off".
>
> After the thing was finally removed by a 3rd GP (having already spread to
> my lymph nodes) my surgeon let his registrar do the operation to remove 23
> of my lymph nodes, 2 years later and it has returned in the same lymph
> channels 4 more times and I've had 3 operations on exactly the same spot.
>
> When it came back the 3rd time the same surgeon who let his registrar do
> the first operation said he wouldn't bother doing CT scans because it had
> come back in the same spot and he was sure it hadn't spread. 2 months later
> I find out that the cancer had spread to my lungs *before* the 3rd
> operation. That's 2 months of chemo I missed out on while the tumours in my
> lungs grew to (almost) golf ball size.
>
> If I was an american I would have sued by now. But I just can't do it. Even
> if these guys are incompetent I have to assume they weren't actually out to
> kill me. There is also the chance that I could have had perfect treatment
> all along and I'd still be terminally ill.