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  #1  
Old 04-02-2007, 04:47 AM
Uncle Sally
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Default Marisa Marchetto NY Times OP-ART visual/critique on Cancer Research 03/31/07 (link enclosed)

http://www.nytimes.com:80/imagepages...n/01opart.html

"Marisa Acocella Marchetto is the author, most recently, of the graphic
memoir 'Cancer Vixen: A True Story.' "


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  #2  
Old 04-02-2007, 11:28 AM
J
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Default Re: Marisa Marchetto NY Times OP-ART visual/critique on Cancer Research

>

http://clinicaltrials.gov/
757 studies added in the past 30 days, not to mention all the other ones
there.
Head and Neck Neoplasms (331 recruiting studies) (715 including ones
that have stopped recruiting)
So what's your point ?
J

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  #3  
Old 04-02-2007, 11:06 PM
Uncle Sally
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Default Re: Marisa Marchetto NY Times OP-ART visual/critique on Cancer Research

"J" <nexsw@nvalid,anon> wrote :

"http://clinicaltrials.gov/
757 studies added in the past 30 days, not to mention all the other ones
there.
Head and Neck Neoplasms (331 recruiting studies) (715 including ones
that have stopped recruiting)

So what's your point ?

J"

Dear "J,"

I don't feel like I fully understand your comment. I think it is appropriate
to post to a group like this links to news about cancer, links to content
including articles and, even, in this case, a commentary in the form of a
cartoon or storyboard visual which reflects the direct experience of cancer
patients (like Marisa Marchetto) particularly when printed in such an
important cultural news icon as the New York Times.

If you feel this is not an appropriate post for this group, please let me
know why.

My posting this does not mean that I have "a point." It means I have come
across something I think may be of interest, on a human level, to other
people with cancer as it is of interest to me.

If someone posted a quote from Simone de Beauvoir's thoughtful memoir of
cancer here, would that bother you ?

By the way I worked for the American Cancer Society in the summer of 1977
when I was a graduate student at UC Berkeley doing interviews with 40
families all over northern California ranging from hippes living in yurts
near Mt. Shasta to Hmong in Fresno, Sikh in Yuba City, urban Blacks and
Hispanics in San Francisco, rich families, poor families. Each family was
selected for having more than one family member having cancer. I learned a
lot about the social and psychological dimesions of cancer in the 120 hours
or so of interviews I transcribed from tape. And one of the key things I
learned was that many people had been damaged by what you might call the
"bugaboo" of the stereotypes around Cancer : it's mythic role in our
society's chamber of medical horrors.

When I see a person like Marisa M. surviving her cancer, writing a book to
help other people, I just want to say "well done" even if her "political
views" come across a bit naive.

respectfully, Uncle Sally


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  #4  
Old 04-03-2007, 08:07 PM
J
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Default Re: Marisa Marchetto NY Times OP-ART visual/critique on Cancer Research

Uncle Sally wrote:

> "J" <nexsw@nvalid,anon> wrote :
>
> "http://clinicaltrials.gov/
> 757 studies added in the past 30 days, not to mention all the other ones
> there.
> Head and Neck Neoplasms (331 recruiting studies) (715 including ones
> that have stopped recruiting)
>
> So what's your point ?
>
> J"
>
> Dear "J,"
>
> I don't feel like I fully understand your comment. I think it is appropriate
> to post to a group like this links to news about cancer, links to content
> including articles and, even, in this case, a commentary in the form of a
> cartoon or storyboard visual which reflects the direct experience of cancer
> patients (like Marisa Marchetto) particularly when printed in such an
> important cultural news icon as the New York Times.
>
> If you feel this is not an appropriate post for this group, please let me
> know why.
>
> My posting this does not mean that I have "a point." It means I have come
> across something I think may be of interest, on a human level, to other
> people with cancer as it is of interest to me.
>
> If someone posted a quote from Simone de Beauvoir's thoughtful memoir of
> cancer here, would that bother you ?
>
> By the way I worked for the American Cancer Society in the summer of 1977
> when I was a graduate student at UC Berkeley doing interviews with 40
> families all over northern California ranging from hippes living in yurts
> near Mt. Shasta to Hmong in Fresno, Sikh in Yuba City, urban Blacks and
> Hispanics in San Francisco, rich families, poor families. Each family was
> selected for having more than one family member having cancer. I learned a
> lot about the social and psychological dimesions of cancer in the 120 hours
> or so of interviews I transcribed from tape. And one of the key things I
> learned was that many people had been damaged by what you might call the
> "bugaboo" of the stereotypes around Cancer : it's mythic role in our
> society's chamber of medical horrors.
>
> When I see a person like Marisa M. surviving her cancer, writing a book to
> help other people, I just want to say "well done" even if her "political
> views" come across a bit naive.
>
> respectfully, Uncle Sally


Dear Uncle Sally,
Breast cancer is off topic here (for many reasons). (except for end stage, and
Susan from Texas, for complicated reasons and Kili who has a desmoid in her
chest area) and the occasional inquiry, at which time I usually refer them to
the breast cancer newsgroup.

This is not a book promotion newsgroup, else "anybody or their cousin" would be
posting their books here. If you see someone post an issue that might be helped
by de Beauvoir's memoire (assuming it's not about breast cancer), sure, go ahead
and suggest it to that person.

There's probably a book newsgroup, if you wish to discuss your favorites there.
J

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  #5  
Old 04-03-2007, 08:07 PM
J
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Posts: n/a
Default stereotypes around Cancer Re: was<snip>on Cancer Research

Uncle Sally wrote:

> By the way I worked for the American Cancer Society in the summer of 1977
> when I was a graduate student at UC Berkeley doing interviews with 40
> families all over northern California ranging from hippes living in yurts
> near Mt. Shasta to Hmong in Fresno, Sikh in Yuba City, urban Blacks and
> Hispanics in San Francisco, rich families, poor families. Each family was
> selected for having more than one family member having cancer. I learned a
> lot about the social and psychological dimesions of cancer in the 120 hours
> or so of interviews I transcribed from tape. And one of the key things I
> learned was that many people had been damaged by what you might call the
> "bugaboo" of the stereotypes around Cancer : it's mythic role in our
> society's chamber of medical horro*rs.


Hello Uncle Sally,
I don't know that we want to get into "medical horro#rs" here (I munged it in
case some loonies are searching newsgroups).
However, what was the take home message from your interviews?
Better education by the GP or schools? Or TV or ??
I don't think I grew up with any preconceived notions about it, but then we
rarely discussed it or other medical issues unless one of us had a condition.
So medical horrors weren't a topic. We were too busy surviving and having fun.
Work, play and all that good stuff..
J

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  #6  
Old 04-03-2007, 08:07 PM
Uncle Sally
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Marisa Marchetto NY Times OP-ART visual/critique on Cancer Research

Dear J,

I find your second response even more narrow-minded and disturbing than your
first.

But I recognize your key role in this group, and I find your other posts to
people which I read indicate you are a very compassionate and caring person.
I'm here to give and get support for my cancer. It's that simple. The things
which sustain me, in general, and now in this experience with cancer are
"the kindness of strangers" (1) and the works of art and literature that
nourish my soul. For me Milton's anguished cry in his Sonnet on His
Blindness : "When I consider how my Light is Spent, ere half my days in
this dark world and wide" is as relevant to my feelings right now in life as
the latest technical article is relevant to my scientific knowledge about
the type of cancer I have.

Until you can articulate more clearly what it is you find irritating about
my posts, and take personal responsibility for your feelings rather than
fabricating accusations such as I am involved in "book promotion," I'll just
ignore your comments on how you experience the "on-topicness" of my posts.

I'm here to give and get support for my cancer. It's that simple. To me that
involves sharing my self through language. If someone quoted their favorite
Bible, Torah, Sutra, Shastra, or Koran passage here because it meant
something to them in dealing with their cancer, would you squirm and write
them they were off-topic ? If someone recommended a book or story here
because they felt it helped with their understanding their experience of
cancer, I personally would appreciate that, might even look it up and
explore whether I felt the work cited might be valuable to me. I assume
members of this group are Adults who can make their own choices.

regards, Uncle Sally

"rahi gulzar to phool khilenge" Kabir, Sufi poet, "where there is a Garden,
the Flowers will come"


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  #7  
Old 04-03-2007, 08:07 PM
J
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Posts: n/a
Default Re:Book?

Uncle Sally wrote:

> Until you can articulate more clearly what it is you find irritating about
> my posts, and take personal responsibility for your feelings rather than
> fabricating accusations such as I am involved in "book promotion,"


Reread my post.
I know this newsgroup and I know human nature.
I have spent a lot of time (years) and ways clearing out people who were posting
here, with hidden agendas, make money ideas, book (or other) sales promotions
and I will not have you nor anyone else encourage it again.

If you wish to discuss a cancer book and it's not breast cancer related, go
ahead and post a new message with "book" in the subject line; then the name of
author and title and the aspect that you wish to discuss (in the body of the
message) If someone has read it and is interested in discussing it, you'll get
replies. If not, you won't.
J

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  #8  
Old 04-03-2007, 08:07 PM
Uncle Sally
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Default Re: stereotypes around Cancer Re: was<snip>on Cancer Research

"J" wrote :

> Uncle Sally wrote: ... excerpt of original post by Uncle Sally

snipped for brevity ...

"Hello Uncle Sally,

I don't know that we want to get into "medical horro#rs" here (I munged it
in case some loonies are searching newsgroups).
However, what was the take home message from your interviews? Better
education by the GP or schools? Or TV or ??
I don't think I grew up with any preconceived notions about it, but then we
rarely discussed it or other medical issues unless one of us had a
condition. So medical horrors weren't a topic. We were too busy surviving
and having fun. Work, play and all that good stuff.. "

Dear J,

First, it is poor usenet social etiquette to reply using a changed topic
heading.

Second, if this not a place where "we" are deeply into "medical horrors,"
then I don't know what it is. Every day I am at the cancer clinic I see
people from children to older persons whose conditions are so much more
serious than mine. And I ask myself, many times, why I am the lucky one with
the financial resources to afford Taxotere and CISPlatin that most of the
Thai people at the hospital cannot afford (this is a public hospital :
wealthy Thais go elsewhere). For me to "hide from horror" is a form of
denial, and weakens my creative self.

Okay, I admit I just "lied" There are times when I am as scared shitless
as anyone else about this little rebel group of cells in my lower tongue.

The question "what was the take-home ?" message I find interesting. For
three months my life was filled with the realities of these families, their
struggles, their failures, their betrayals, their transcendence over
suffering, their enduring bonds, their shattered bonds, the ways in which
they reached out to help other people even in times when they were deeply in
pain. I felt a continual sense of humility in their presence.

I tried to approach, consistent with the "ethnomethodological field work
model" of Dr. Garfinckel of UCLA (sady now best remembered as Carlos
Castenada's [the master fraud who japed all of anthropology and most of
popular culture and academia with his "Don Juan" fictions] thesis
supervisor) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Garfinkel

http://www.hewett.norfolk.sch.uk/CUR...thno/intro.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnomethodology

each family as "ding an sich," a universe unto itself with its own customs,
laws, mores. I tried to abandon my preconceptions, and be a "well" into
which they could "pour" their stories, and, where I could, where they
allowed me to, to encourage the telling of the stories.

Of course I "failed" : no one can really abandon their preconceptions. Some
families were very suspiciious of me at first, in part because some of the
local chapters of the California ACS thought the study itself, imposed "top
down" by the state level organization was a waste of time and money. An
interesting introduction for me into the internal politics of ACS at the
state level. Some families used their "interviews" to really have a deep
exchange and re-appraise their own "histories" of the multiple cancers and
the events surrounding them. A few of the more isolated individuals who
seemed deeply depressed to me used the "interview" to do some work on
themselves, perhaps assisted by the finite one-time nature of the interview.
What I call the "kind ear you know is going away so you can tell them
anything" syndrome.

Most fascinating to me were the social changes that happened to some of the
families (as in for example one hippy familiy with twins who both had
cancer) where the mother (father and mother living officially "unwed") got
control of a large amount of financial resources, completely changing the
family dynamics where she was (before cancer in the children) essentially
"mother, cook, and squaw" to her "mystic chief." The money had to be put in
her name for the children, and while she was busy taking them to UCSF for
treatment, her mate was busy taking pejote and praying to the four winds for
guidance and healing. They had a major crisis in their marriage because the
mother, and soon the kids, really believed that mainstream medicine was the
way to go (and the kids got to eat hamburgers and see movies which Pa
disapproved totally).

If there was any broad "take-home" message it was, I think, how the social
construction of "Cancer" in American culture was dysfunctional for many
people. The reactions of family, friends, employers, authority figures,
etc., sometimes strange and hurtful. I hate to bring this up (fearing I may
make you squirm), but, for my money, if you really want to understand the
"social construction of Cancer" in western culture from an existentialist
viewpoint, then I think de Beauvoir's book is the best. She's been there,
walked the walk, and used her vast knowledge and education and her
compassionate heart to help others of us understand better the context of
"cancer."

For this little social science graduate student the experience of doing
these interviews was eye-opening. Led me to view "Cancer" as a vast spectrum
of disorders "lumped" into a socially useful construct at the expense of
realizing how different someone 60 years old with Hodgkins is from someone
thirteen years old with a brain tumor. I hope the collected interviews did
provide some raw materials for ACS California that they did ultimately use.
I fear it may have been "swept under the table" because of the political
acrimony some of the powerful regional branches felt about the study.

best, Uncle Sally (most unashamedly : a "loonie searching newsgroups"

"Those are my principles; if you don't like them, I've got others." Groucho
Marx






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  #9  
Old 04-03-2007, 08:07 PM
J
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Default Re: stereotypes around Cancer Re: was<snip>on Cancer Research

Uncle Sally wrote:

> "J" wrote :
>
> > However, what was the take home message from your interviews? Better
> > education by the GP or schools? Or TV or ??

> For this little social science graduate student the experience of doing
> these interviews was eye-opening.


Well, yes. But how did it help the people you interviewed?
PS Your newsreader's not quoting properly. I had to insert thes (> >) above.
Must be a setting in your OE.

J

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  #10  
Old 04-04-2007, 02:38 AM
Alex
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Marisa Marchetto NY Times OP-ART visual/critique on Cancer Research

On Apr 3, 3:35 am, J <nexsw@nvalid,anon> wrote:
> Uncle Sally wrote:
> > "J" <nexsw@nvalid,anon> wrote :

>
> > "http://clinicaltrials.gov/
> > 757 studies added in the past 30 days, not to mention all the other ones
> > there.
> > Head and Neck Neoplasms (331 recruiting studies) (715 including ones
> > that have stopped recruiting)

>
> > So what's your point ?

>
> > J"

>
> > Dear "J,"

>
> > I don't feel like I fully understand your comment. I think it is appropriate
> > to post to a group like this links to news about cancer, links to content
> > including articles and, even, in this case, a commentary in the form of a
> > cartoon or storyboard visual which reflects the direct experience of cancer
> > patients (like Marisa Marchetto) particularly when printed in such an
> > important cultural news icon as the New York Times.

>
> > If you feel this is not an appropriate post for this group, please let me
> > know why.

>
> > My posting this does not mean that I have "a point." It means I have come
> > across something I think may be of interest, on a human level, to other
> > people with cancer as it is of interest to me.

>
> > If someone posted a quote from Simone de Beauvoir's thoughtful memoir of
> > cancer here, would that bother you ?

>
> > By the way I worked for the American Cancer Society in the summer of 1977
> > when I was a graduate student at UC Berkeley doing interviews with 40
> > families all over northern California ranging from hippes living in yurts
> > near Mt. Shasta to Hmong in Fresno, Sikh in Yuba City, urban Blacks and
> > Hispanics in San Francisco, rich families, poor families. Each family was
> > selected for having more than one family member having cancer. I learned a
> > lot about the social and psychological dimesions of cancer in the 120 hours
> > or so of interviews I transcribed from tape. And one of the key things I
> > learned was that many people had been damaged by what you might call the
> > "bugaboo" of the stereotypes around Cancer : it's mythic role in our
> > society's chamber of medical horrors.

>
> > When I see a person like Marisa M. surviving her cancer, writing a book to
> > help other people, I just want to say "well done" even if her "political
> > views" come across a bit naive.

>
> > respectfully, Uncle Sally

>
> Dear Uncle Sally,
> Breast cancer is off topic here (for many reasons). (except for end stage, and
> Susan from Texas, for complicated reasons and Kili who has a desmoid in her
> chest area) and the occasional inquiry, at which time I usually refer them to
> the breast cancer newsgroup.
>
> This is not a book promotion newsgroup, else "anybody or their cousin" would be
> posting their books here. If you see someone post an issue that might be helped
> by de Beauvoir's memoire (assuming it's not about breast cancer), sure, go ahead
> and suggest it to that person.
>
> There's probably a book newsgroup, if you wish to discuss your favorites there.
> J- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


This is an unmoderated newsgroup, anyone can post, there is no
moderator, Breast cancer is cancer although there is a seperate
group. I found your post Uncle Sally interesting . Alex

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  #11  
Old 04-04-2007, 09:59 PM
Eddie Van Huffel
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Marisa Marchetto NY Times OP-ART visual/critique on Cancer Research

On 3 Apr 2007 13:46:31 -0700, "Alex" <usenetgirl@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Apr 3, 3:35 am, J <nexsw@nvalid,anon> wrote:
>> Uncle Sally wrote:
>> > "J" <nexsw@nvalid,anon> wrote :

>>


>
>This is an unmoderated newsgroup, anyone can post, there is no
>moderator, Breast cancer is cancer although there is a seperate
>group. I found your post Uncle Sally interesting . Alex


Even crack pots like you. But you're so obvious.



Grateful to be back.

Eddie MD OTF
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  #12  
Old 04-07-2007, 10:44 AM
mmoors@kc.rr.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Marisa Marchetto NY Times OP-ART visual/critique on Cancer Research 03/31/07 (link enclosed)

On Apr 1, 10:07 pm, "Uncle Sally" <uncleSa...@auldUncleSally.com>
wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com:80/imagepages...n/01opart.html
>
> "Marisa Acocella Marchetto is the author, most recently, of the graphic
> memoir 'Cancer Vixen: A True Story.' "



This "cartoon" is a sad indictment of the cancer industry's utter lack
of progress in finding a real cure or even a modest improvement in the
death rates since the war on cancer was declared over 30 years ago.
Blaming the tobacco industry's advertising budget or the amount spent
on soft drinks is irrelevant and in no way excuses the failure for any
meaningful headway in cancer treatment despite the billions of dollars
allocated every year to research.

Unfortunately, the plea for more billions for the National Cancer
Institute, the American Cancer Society and other similar institutions
will only perpetuate the ineffective continuation of these impotent
efforts.

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  #13  
Old 04-07-2007, 10:44 AM
Steph
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Marisa Marchetto NY Times OP-ART visual/critique on Cancer Research 03/31/07 (link enclosed)


<mmoors@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1175834261.552037.40560@o5g2000hsb.googlegrou ps.com...
> On Apr 1, 10:07 pm, "Uncle Sally" <uncleSa...@auldUncleSally.com>
> wrote:
>> http://www.nytimes.com:80/imagepages...n/01opart.html
>>
>> "Marisa Acocella Marchetto is the author, most recently, of the graphic
>> memoir 'Cancer Vixen: A True Story.' "

>
>
> This "cartoon" is a sad indictment of the cancer industry's utter lack
> of progress in finding a real cure or even a modest improvement in the
> death rates since the war on cancer was declared over 30 years ago.
> Blaming the tobacco industry's advertising budget or the amount spent
> on soft drinks is irrelevant and in no way excuses the failure for any
> meaningful headway in cancer treatment despite the billions of dollars
> allocated every year to research.
>
> Unfortunately, the plea for more billions for the National Cancer
> Institute, the American Cancer Society and other similar institutions
> will only perpetuate the ineffective continuation of these impotent
> efforts.
>


90% of skin cancers and about 65% of all other cancers are cured.
That's not too shabby


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