Never give up hope?

Hi all,

I was reading some other posts here and somebody came out with the line
"Never give up hope". I presume that means "Never give up hope of a cure".
Along with "You never know what might happen" and other platitudes, are we
kidding ourselves? That obviously depends on what stage of cancer you have
and I'm all for hope and fighting this dammed disease whenever sensible to
do so.

In many cases a cure is simply not going to happen. In my wife's case,
stomach cancer, as so often is the case, we were straight into palliative
care virtually from diagnosis. While we don't like the situation, accepting
the inevitable is going to happen gives you the strength to direct our
energies where they are most appropriate. Running around like blue @r$ed
flies from quack cure to quack cure may have given us hope, but it would be
false hope and therefore what is it's value?

We vowed to be honest to eachother and anyone who wanted to know the
situation. Are we being cruel when other people come out with the platitudes
and we say no, that's not the way it is? Or should we "play along" for their
sakes?

We do have hope, but it's for different things, realistic things to hope
for.

Ian

--

BetsyB

"Bozz" <NotGiven@BTInternet.com> wrote in message
news:SPKdneGvb5GlDuDYnZ2dnUVZ8te3nZ2d@bt.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I was reading some other posts here and somebody came out with the line
> "Never give up hope". I presume that means "Never give up hope of a cure".
> Along with "You never know what might happen" and other platitudes, are we
> kidding ourselves? That obviously depends on what stage of cancer you have
> and I'm all for hope and fighting this dammed disease whenever sensible to
> do so.
>
> In many cases a cure is simply not going to happen. In my wife's case,
> stomach cancer, as so often is the case, we were straight into palliative
> care virtually from diagnosis. While we don't like the situation,
> accepting the inevitable is going to happen gives you the strength to
> direct our energies where they are most appropriate. Running around like
> blue @r$ed flies from quack cure to quack cure may have given us hope, but
> it would be false hope and therefore what is it's value?
>
> We vowed to be honest to eachother and anyone who wanted to know the
> situation. Are we being cruel when other people come out with the
> platitudes and we say no, that's not the way it is? Or should we "play
> along" for their sakes?
>
> We do have hope, but it's for different things, realistic things to hope
> for.
>
> Ian

You and your bride are so sensible. I agree with your outlook 1000%!
Safe trip.

Betsy

"Bozz" <NotGiven@BTInternet.com> wrote in message
news:SPKdneGvb5GlDuDYnZ2dnUVZ8te3nZ2d@bt.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I was reading some other posts here and somebody came out with the line
> "Never give up hope". I presume that means "Never give up hope of a cure".
> Along with "You never know what might happen" and other platitudes, are we
> kidding ourselves? That obviously depends on what stage of cancer you have
> and I'm all for hope and fighting this dammed disease whenever sensible to
> do so.
>
> In many cases a cure is simply not going to happen. In my wife's case,
> stomach cancer, as so often is the case, we were straight into palliative
> care virtually from diagnosis. While we don't like the situation,
> accepting the inevitable is going to happen gives you the strength to
> direct our energies where they are most appropriate. Running around like
> blue @r$ed flies from quack cure to quack cure may have given us hope, but
> it would be false hope and therefore what is it's value?
>
> We vowed to be honest to eachother and anyone who wanted to know the
> situation. Are we being cruel when other people come out with the
> platitudes and we say no, that's not the way it is? Or should we "play
> along" for their sakes?
>
> We do have hope, but it's for different things, realistic things to hope
> for.
>
> Ian
>
Hi Bozz,

Thought provoking thread really, I personally would have changed the "never
give up hope" to "stay positive" but my interpretation would not have been
towards a cure. More to simply stay positive during the rollercoaster ride,
I think that if you get too negative then quality of the remaining time
declines.

I like your honesty, particularly with each other and admire you for it,
it's not easy to be so honest and although Tony and I discussed everything
from funerals to living wills the one thing that we never spoke to each
other about was the fact that he was dying, it was always dealt with on a
"at some point" level.

I don't think that you are being cruel to other people, you're merely being
up front. I was amazed at people's reaction at Tony's diagnosis, some were
supportive and some were very honest when they said that "they couldn't
cope" with it. It's one of those situations that you have to have been
through to understand the emotions involved and the "correct" way to react.
When he passed away I could have screamed at the number of people that used
the word "sorry" but the trouble with our language is that there is no other
way to express how we feel. I know better now, words are not needed, a
simple hug says it all.

I wish you and your family a Peaceful Christmas Bozz.

Warm Hugs

Alayne

"Alayne" <totallyfake@email.com> wrote in message
news:2Jtfh.15144$HV6.769@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Bozz" <NotGiven@BTInternet.com> wrote in message
> news:SPKdneGvb5GlDuDYnZ2dnUVZ8te3nZ2d@bt.com...
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I was reading some other posts here and somebody came out with the line
>> "Never give up hope". I presume that means "Never give up hope of a
>> cure". Along with "You never know what might happen" and other
>> platitudes, are we kidding ourselves? That obviously depends on what
>> stage of cancer you have and I'm all for hope and fighting this dammed
>> disease whenever sensible to do so.
>>
>> In many cases a cure is simply not going to happen. In my wife's case,
>> stomach cancer, as so often is the case, we were straight into palliative
>> care virtually from diagnosis. While we don't like the situation,
>> accepting the inevitable is going to happen gives you the strength to
>> direct our energies where they are most appropriate. Running around like
>> blue @r$ed flies from quack cure to quack cure may have given us hope,
>> but it would be false hope and therefore what is it's value?
>>
>> We vowed to be honest to eachother and anyone who wanted to know the
>> situation. Are we being cruel when other people come out with the
>> platitudes and we say no, that's not the way it is? Or should we "play
>> along" for their sakes?
>>
>> We do have hope, but it's for different things, realistic things to hope
>> for.
>>
>> Ian
>>
> Hi Bozz,
>
> Thought provoking thread really, I personally would have changed the
> "never give up hope" to "stay positive" but my interpretation would not
> have been towards a cure. More to simply stay positive during the
> rollercoaster ride, I think that if you get too negative then quality of
> the remaining time declines.
>
> I like your honesty, particularly with each other and admire you for it,
> it's not easy to be so honest and although Tony and I discussed everything
> from funerals to living wills the one thing that we never spoke to each
> other about was the fact that he was dying, it was always dealt with on a
> "at some point" level.
>
> I don't think that you are being cruel to other people, you're merely
> being up front. I was amazed at people's reaction at Tony's diagnosis,
> some were supportive and some were very honest when they said that "they
> couldn't cope" with it. It's one of those situations that you have to
> have been through to understand the emotions involved and the "correct"
> way to react. When he passed away I could have screamed at the number of
> people that used the word "sorry" but the trouble with our language is
> that there is no other way to express how we feel. I know better now,
> words are not needed, a simple hug says it all.
>
> I wish you and your family a Peaceful Christmas Bozz.
>
> Warm Hugs
>
> Alayne
Thanks Alayne,

That guy who said a picture paints a thousand words never knew the power of
a hug did he!

My mum took me aside as said how sorry she was about the situation and I
almost snapped her head off, I felt these things were so obvious as to
remain better unspoken. I'm sorry now, people cope in their own ways. My
sister in law said how her recently deceased son would look down on my wife
and make it all better - I thought that if he couldn't survive himself then
he's not going to do much good here. The doctor that suggested neo adjuvant
chemotherapy was on the cards on the Friday before the oncologist told us
only palliative on the Monday, I really don't know why. Actually on that
last one it's the medical professions willingness to collude and tell you
what they think you want to know, worthless hope dished out freely.

I like stay positive, I especially like I'm living not dying and sometimes
with the caveat that there will be time enough for the latter. The glass is
half full, if it's not then top it up.

Must start to organise that Christmas thing soon.

Ian

I think we are kidding ourselves sometimes with this "hope" business.
Fact of the matter is, I KNOW Murray's not gonna grow old with me. I
KNOW he most likely won't be around in 5 years and I KNOW there's a big
chance he won't be around next Christmas. Hope and cancer, in my
opinion are as far apart as day and night. However sometimes for my
own sanity I HAVE to make myself believe that there is hope. I have to
kid myself sometimes or I'll crack up. I think that hope, for the sake
of sanity, has a bit of value. It does for me anyway. I think
sometimes it's best to play along a little bit.
Bozz wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I was reading some other posts here and somebody came out with the line
> "Never give up hope". I presume that means "Never give up hope of a cure".
> Along with "You never know what might happen" and other platitudes, are we
> kidding ourselves? That obviously depends on what stage of cancer you have
> and I'm all for hope and fighting this dammed disease whenever sensible to
> do so.
>
> In many cases a cure is simply not going to happen. In my wife's case,
> stomach cancer, as so often is the case, we were straight into palliative
> care virtually from diagnosis. While we don't like the situation, accepting
> the inevitable is going to happen gives you the strength to direct our
> energies where they are most appropriate. Running around like blue @r$ed
> flies from quack cure to quack cure may have given us hope, but it would be
> false hope and therefore what is it's value?
>
> We vowed to be honest to eachother and anyone who wanted to know the
> situation. Are we being cruel when other people come out with the platitudes
> and we say no, that's not the way it is? Or should we "play along" for their
> sakes?
>
> We do have hope, but it's for different things, realistic things to hope
> for.
>
> Ian

"Bozz" <NotGiven@BTInternet.com> wrote in message
news:SPKdneGvb5GlDuDYnZ2dnUVZ8te3nZ2d@bt.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I was reading some other posts here and somebody came out with the line
> "Never give up hope". I presume that means "Never give up hope of a cure".
> Along with "You never know what might happen" and other platitudes, are we
> kidding ourselves? That obviously depends on what stage of cancer you have
> and I'm all for hope and fighting this dammed disease whenever sensible to
> do so.
>
> In many cases a cure is simply not going to happen. In my wife's case,
> stomach cancer, as so often is the case, we were straight into palliative
> care virtually from diagnosis. While we don't like the situation,
> accepting the inevitable is going to happen gives you the strength to
> direct our energies where they are most appropriate. Running around like
> blue @r$ed flies from quack cure to quack cure may have given us hope, but
> it would be false hope and therefore what is it's value?
>
> We vowed to be honest to eachother and anyone who wanted to know the
> situation. Are we being cruel when other people come out with the
> platitudes and we say no, that's not the way it is? Or should we "play
> along" for their sakes?
>
> We do have hope, but it's for different things, realistic things to hope
> for.
>
> Ian
>


What a breath of fresh common-sense air..............
As a clever man once posted on this NG, "An insoluble problem is really no
longer a problem"
There is all the difference in the world between hoping for the impossible,
and hoping for the possible. Almost everyone with advanced cancer can be
helped, but most can't be cured.

"Bozz" <NotGiven@BTInternet.com> wrote in message
news:4LSdnQf09-CrFuPYnZ2dnUVZ8qKvnZ2d@bt.com...
> Thanks Alayne,
>
> That guy who said a picture paints a thousand words never knew the power
> of a hug did he!
>
> My mum took me aside as said how sorry she was about the situation and I
> almost snapped her head off, I felt these things were so obvious as to
> remain better unspoken. I'm sorry now, people cope in their own ways. My
> sister in law said how her recently deceased son would look down on my
> wife and make it all better - I thought that if he couldn't survive
> himself then he's not going to do much good here. The doctor that
> suggested neo adjuvant chemotherapy was on the cards on the Friday before
> the oncologist told us only palliative on the Monday, I really don't know
> why. Actually on that last one it's the medical professions willingness to
> collude and tell you what they think you want to know, worthless hope
> dished out freely.
>
> I like stay positive, I especially like I'm living not dying and sometimes
> with the caveat that there will be time enough for the latter. The glass
> is half full, if it's not then top it up.
>
> Must start to organise that Christmas thing soon.
>
> Ian
>

A hug says more than words, it never gets mis-interpreted and never offends
(well 99.9% unless you hug a stranger in the street!)

Bozz, don't be sorry for your knee-jerk reactions, hey you have emotions
like the rest of us. I remember one time when Tony was in hospice for the
second time, I was stuck in a traffic jam a few hundred yards away, when I
got to the front of the queue I discovered the temporary road-works and then
sat there for another 5 mins. watching a workman spoke a cigarette. I'm a
very placid person, but I jumped out of my car and screamed like a banshee -
and that's just one of the many stories I could tell about losing it ;-)

I nearly snapped my mothers head off only last week, I'm having an extension
built so the girls can have their own rooms, my ma came round and said "you
are so lucky to be able to do this", on the tip of my tongue..... "what,
lucky to have lost my husband!"... just being overly sensitive to others
choice of words I suppose even three years later ;-)

I like particularly like your para about living not dying, at the end of the
day that's what we're all doing, we all have an end chapter at some point,
it's the story-line in the middle that's most interesting.

Good luck with that Christmas thing (hate to say it but mine were all
wrapped yesterday before an incredibly long hosp.appointment)

Warm Hugs

Alayne - who chooses to drink from pint glasses because they hold more ;-)
>
>

"Steph" <steph@vancouvers.island> wrote in message
news:Y%zfh.467809$5R2.189910@pd7urf3no...
>
> "Bozz" <NotGiven@BTInternet.com> wrote in message
> news:SPKdneGvb5GlDuDYnZ2dnUVZ8te3nZ2d@bt.com...
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I was reading some other posts here and somebody came out with the line
>> "Never give up hope". I presume that means "Never give up hope of a
>> cure". Along with "You never know what might happen" and other
>> platitudes, are we kidding ourselves? That obviously depends on what
>> stage of cancer you have and I'm all for hope and fighting this dammed
>> disease whenever sensible to do so.
>>
>> In many cases a cure is simply not going to happen. In my wife's case,
>> stomach cancer, as so often is the case, we were straight into palliative
>> care virtually from diagnosis. While we don't like the situation,
>> accepting the inevitable is going to happen gives you the strength to
>> direct our energies where they are most appropriate. Running around like
>> blue @r$ed flies from quack cure to quack cure may have given us hope,
>> but it would be false hope and therefore what is it's value?
>>
>> We vowed to be honest to eachother and anyone who wanted to know the
>> situation. Are we being cruel when other people come out with the
>> platitudes and we say no, that's not the way it is? Or should we "play
>> along" for their sakes?
>>
>> We do have hope, but it's for different things, realistic things to hope
>> for.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>
>
> What a breath of fresh common-sense air..............
> As a clever man once posted on this NG, "An insoluble problem is really no
> longer a problem"
> There is all the difference in the world between hoping for the
> impossible, and hoping for the possible. Almost everyone with advanced
> cancer can be helped, but most can't be cured.




Then what about the man who went in for surgery, but the tumor had
disappeared? What about the many more documented miracles? I will never give
up hope, no matter what, on my husband. His doctor has confirmed that he has
seen people healed of cancer. Hope is not the word I use. Hoping is giving
room for doubt. I believe in healing. I believe in faith. I believe God's
words no matter what happens. God says we shall all live long lives, and
when that devil of a disease, cancer, came knocking at our door, we didn't
answer it. God gave use brains, gave us good doctors and also gave us chemo,
etc. We can all choose how to deal with cancer, and I choose life. My cup is
overflowing with faith, and I will not let fear nor negativity block our
healing. Some might say I am nuts and that I will be disappointed, but our
lives are not in our hands at all. They're in our hearts, in our faith and
in our determination to live. And I don't think that living ends here on
earth. This is merely one phase of life. If not, what would be our purpose?

Peace Out!
Giuditta

> Then what about the man who went in for surgery, but the tumor had
> disappeared? What about the many more documented miracles? I will never
> give up hope, no matter what, on my husband. His doctor has confirmed that
> he has seen people healed of cancer. Hope is not the word I use. Hoping is
> giving room for doubt. I believe in healing. I believe in faith. I believe
> God's words no matter what happens. God says we shall all live long lives,
> and when that devil of a disease, cancer, came knocking at our door, we
> didn't answer it. God gave use brains, gave us good doctors and also gave
> us chemo, etc. We can all choose how to deal with cancer, and I choose
> life. My cup is overflowing with faith, and I will not let fear nor
> negativity block our healing. Some might say I am nuts and that I will be
> disappointed, but our lives are not in our hands at all. They're in our
> hearts, in our faith and in our determination to live. And I don't think
> that living ends here on earth. This is merely one phase of life. If not,
> what would be our purpose?
>
> Peace Out!
> Giuditta
>I don't think it is negative to accept the life god has given you and to
>give it up for him when he asks. You see it's all in the way you interpret
>faith. People waste so much of their lives hoping for miracles and miss
>the fact that they have already had one miracle (birth) . I think it
>smacks of greed to expect miracles as a right. He gave us all a brain to
>reason with and we should expect and plan for reasonable things. Don't
>knock back a miracle if it happens but don't plan on one happening either.
MIKE

"Mike Radcliffe" <mikeradcliffenospam@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:4597d5fa$0$2655$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> Then what about the man who went in for surgery, but the tumor had
>> disappeared? What about the many more documented miracles? I will never
>> give up hope, no matter what, on my husband. His doctor has confirmed
>> that he has seen people healed of cancer. Hope is not the word I use.
>> Hoping is giving room for doubt. I believe in healing. I believe in
>> faith. I believe God's words no matter what happens. God says we shall
>> all live long lives, and when that devil of a disease, cancer, came
>> knocking at our door, we didn't answer it. God gave use brains, gave us
>> good doctors and also gave us chemo, etc. We can all choose how to deal
>> with cancer, and I choose life. My cup is overflowing with faith, and I
>> will not let fear nor negativity block our healing. Some might say I am
>> nuts and that I will be disappointed, but our lives are not in our hands
>> at all. They're in our hearts, in our faith and in our determination to
>> live. And I don't think that living ends here on earth. This is merely
>> one phase of life. If not, what would be our purpose?
>>
>> Peace Out!
>> Giuditta
>>I don't think it is negative to accept the life god has given you and to
>>give it up for him when he asks. You see it's all in the way you interpret
>>faith. People waste so much of their lives hoping for miracles and miss
>>the fact that they have already had one miracle (birth) . I think it
>>smacks of greed to expect miracles as a right. He gave us all a brain to
>>reason with and we should expect and plan for reasonable things. Don't
>>knock back a miracle if it happens but don't plan on one happening either.
> MIKE


Thanks, Mike, but I always plan on miracles. Don't worry, I won't jump off a
bridge if one doesn't happen, but I'm still gonna believe. That's just me. I
have seen miracles happen when a situation seemed impossible, so I hang on
to that. It's not up to me but up to God. I have the faith, but I'm not God
and don't have any control over the world. There's a way to be realistic yet
still have faith ... isn't there? The kind of faith I am talking about is
the faith that did move mountains, and although I talk a good game, I am
still praying for that kind of faith because I believe it works.

Peace Out!
Giuditta

>>I don't think it is negative to accept the life god has given you and to
>>give it up for him when he asks. You see it's all in the way you interpret
>>faith. People waste so much of their lives hoping for miracles and miss
>>the fact that they have already had one miracle (birth) . I think it
>>smacks of greed to expect miracles as a right. He gave us all a brain to
>>reason with and we should expect and plan for reasonable things. Don't
>>knock back a miracle if it happens but don't plan on one happening either.
> MIKE

I've always found miracles a bit thin on the ground around these parts. I'm
not sure why people should only expect miracles to come from God? Is a
miracle only/always divine intervention? We are all going to die one day,
that's in the design or evolution of things. Would it be worth "wasting" a
miracle averting such an inconsequential (in the ways of the world) event?

If hope is your thing then good on you. As long as you don't utterly depend
on it coming to fruition and do make the most of your time "just in case"
then it's a positive thing.

Maybe the less you hope for the more likely it is to come about. If you are
too greedy in your hopes then you may be dissapointed.


Ian

>>> Then what about the man who went in for surgery, but the tumor had
>>> disappeared? What about the many more documented miracles? I will never
>>> give up hope, no matter what, on my husband. His doctor has confirmed
>>> that he has seen people healed of cancer. Hope is not the word I use.
>>> Hoping is giving room for doubt. I believe in healing. I believe in
>>> faith. I believe God's words no matter what happens. God says we shall
>>> all live long lives, and when that devil of a disease, cancer, came
>>> knocking at our door, we didn't answer it. God gave use brains, gave us
>>> good doctors and also gave us chemo, etc. We can all choose how to deal
>>> with cancer, and I choose life. My cup is overflowing with faith, and I
>>> will not let fear nor negativity block our healing. Some might say I am
>>> nuts and that I will be disappointed, but our lives are not in our hands
>>> at all. They're in our hearts, in our faith and in our determination to
>>> live. And I don't think that living ends here on earth. This is merely
>>> one phase of life. If not, what would be our purpose?
>>>
>>> Peace Out!
>>> Giuditta
>>>I don't think it is negative to accept the life god has given you and to
>>>give it up for him when he asks. You see it's all in the way you
>>>interpret faith. People waste so much of their lives hoping for miracles
>>>and miss the fact that they have already had one miracle (birth) . I
>>>think it smacks of greed to expect miracles as a right. He gave us all a
>>>brain to reason with and we should expect and plan for reasonable things.
>>>Don't knock back a miracle if it happens but don't plan on one happening
>>>either.
>> MIKE
>
>
> Thanks, Mike, but I always plan on miracles. Don't worry, I won't jump off
> a bridge if one doesn't happen, but I'm still gonna believe. That's just
> me. I have seen miracles happen when a situation seemed impossible, so I
> hang on to that. It's not up to me but up to God. I have the faith, but
> I'm not God and don't have any control over the world. There's a way to be
> realistic yet still have faith ... isn't there? The kind of faith I am
> talking about is the faith that did move mountains, and although I talk a
> good game, I am still praying for that kind of faith because I believe it
> works.
>
> Peace Out!
> Giuditta

You're talking my kind of sense
God Bless
MIKE