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  #1  
Old 05-18-2008, 06:33 AM
ironjustice
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Posts: n/a
Default Not The Iron

"We know it's not the iron. We don't know what causes these diseases.
We use iron chelating agents for these different diseases."

I .. think it IS the iron .. but that's just .. me ..

http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/120/6/490

Iron-Chelating Agents in Non-Iron Overload Conditions

Rheumatoid Arthritis
Anthracycline Cardiac Poisoning
Reperfusion Injury
Antiproliferative Effects
Solid Tumors
Hematologic Malignancies
Antiprotozoal Activity
Aluminum Chelation
Renal Failure
Alzheimer Disease
Myelofibrosis and Myelodysplastic Syndrome
Multiple Sclerosis
Drug-induced Lung Injury
Immunomodulatory Properties and Transplant Rejection
Preservation of Organs for Transplant
Glomerulonephritis


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk


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  #2  
Old 05-20-2008, 01:50 AM
Michael B
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

No, you are wrong. It is not the iron. It is the affinity for the
metals that may include iron.
For example, aluminum in Alzheimer's.

I suggest that you in your Health Research Analyst mode consider
actually reading the details. Your stroke of genius was simply a
stroke.

On May 18, 1:53 am, ironjustice <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:
> "We know it's not the iron. We don't know what causes these diseases.
> We use iron chelating agents for these different diseases."
>
> I .. think it IS the iron .. but that's just .. me ..
>
> http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/120/6/490
>
> Iron-Chelating Agents in Non-Iron Overload Conditions
>
> Rheumatoid Arthritis
> Anthracycline Cardiac Poisoning
> Reperfusion Injury
> Antiproliferative Effects
> Solid Tumors
> Hematologic Malignancies
> Antiprotozoal Activity
> Aluminum Chelation
> Renal Failure
> Alzheimer Disease
> Myelofibrosis and Myelodysplastic Syndrome
> Multiple Sclerosis
> Drug-induced Lung Injury
> Immunomodulatory Properties and Transplant Rejection
> Preservation of Organs for Transplant
> Glomerulonephritis

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  #3  
Old 05-20-2008, 04:33 AM
ironjustice
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

On May 19, 6:26*pm, Michael B <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
No, you are wrong. It is not the iron. <<

Now .. you specifically said .. "you are wrong"..

Now that statement means to ME an unwillingness to accept a simple
medical study for what it is ..

A study which shows CLEARLY they use the regimen / treatment OF "iron
binding drugs" / agents in different diseases of unknown cause.
Because it works simply because it works.
Now you SAY it doesn't .. or more precisely .. "NOT BECAUSE OF THE
IRON!!"

Why would you say that .. ?

You believe there are ENOUGH studies mentioning aluminum in all the
diseases mentioned ?

Preservation of Organs for Transplant

How about that one .. ?

Targeting aluminum in that tooooo .. ?

Multiple sclerosis .. ?
Rheumatoid Arthritis .. ?
Anthracycline Cardiac Poisoning .. ?
Reperfusion Injury .. ?
Antiproliferative Effects .. ?
Solid Tumors .. ?
Hematologic Malignancies .. ?
Antiprotozoal Activity .. ?
Aluminum Chelation
Renal Failure .. ?
Alzheimer Disease Myelofibrosis and Myelodysplastic Syndrome .. ?
Multiple Sclerosis .. ?
Drug-induced Lung Injury
Immunomodulatory Properties and Transplant Rejection .. ?
Preservation of Organs for Transplant .. ?
Glomerulonephritis .. ?

They are targeting IRON.
IE: "iron MRI of deep matter in Multiple Sclerosis"

They SAY .. just like you .. "it isn't the iron even though we have no
idea what it is .. it is not the iron even though we don't know what
it is it is not the iron .. for sure .. itisnottheiron ..".. but
studies show SPECIFIC targeting of iron in those different diseases BY
other researchers and drugs.

Those are "Iron-Chelating Agents" used in diseases of unknown origin.

PERIOD ..

You have ONE .. study which mentions .. aluminum .. ?

One study .. ?

You tell a guy with say .. ---- .. who is peeing himself and
attempting to pet his dog but can't "don't go anywhere NEAR those iron
treatments because I don't like that guy there .. in fact .. I dislike
him alot .. "

THAT is the vibe I am kinda getting from you .. michael ..

Let me tell you it ..ain't .. pretty ..

Heh .. heh ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk





>
> I suggest that you in your Health Research Analyst mode consider
> actually reading the details. Your stroke of genius was simply a
> stroke.
>
> On May 18, 1:53 am, ironjustice <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "We know it's not the iron. We don't know what causes these diseases.
> > We use iron chelating agents for these different diseases."

>
> > I .. think it IS the iron .. but that's just .. me ..

>
> >http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/120/6/490

>
> > Iron-Chelating Agents in Non-Iron Overload Conditions

>
> > Rheumatoid Arthritis
> > Anthracycline Cardiac Poisoning
> > Reperfusion Injury
> > Antiproliferative Effects
> > Solid Tumors
> > Hematologic Malignancies
> > Antiprotozoal Activity
> > Aluminum Chelation
> > Renal Failure
> > Alzheimer Disease
> > Myelofibrosis and Myelodysplastic Syndrome
> > Multiple Sclerosis
> > Drug-induced Lung Injury
> > Immunomodulatory Properties and Transplant Rejection
> > Preservation of Organs for Transplant
> > Glomerulonephritis- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


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  #4  
Old 05-20-2008, 12:28 PM
Michael B
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

No, the medical study is not simple. You are.

On May 19, 11:37 pm, ironjustice <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 19, 6:26 pm, Michael B <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> No, you are wrong. It is not the iron. <<
>
> Now .. you specifically said .. "you are wrong"..
>
> Now that statement means to ME an unwillingness to accept a simple
> medical study for what it is ..

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  #5  
Old 05-21-2008, 05:17 AM
nanny
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

Actually, just for the record, I do NOT have iron overload; in fact, just
learned from my bone marrow biopsy that my iron is low instead. If it gets
worse, or if I feel worse, he (Hematologist/Oncologist) said he will give me
a shot of some kind. Just FYI, not to contribute to the discussions going
on here. Nanny
"Michael B" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1930e267-8a7c-48ba-83a7-3049146ff34c@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> No, the medical study is not simple. You are.
>
> On May 19, 11:37 pm, ironjustice <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On May 19, 6:26 pm, Michael B <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> No, you are wrong. It is not the iron. <<
>>
>> Now .. you specifically said .. "you are wrong"..
>>
>> Now that statement means to ME an unwillingness to accept a simple
>> medical study for what it is ..



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  #6  
Old 05-21-2008, 04:20 PM
ironjustice
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

On May 20, 9:16*pm, "nanny" <gloria...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
Actually, just for the record, I do NOT have iron overload; in fact,
just
learned from my bone marrow biopsy that my iron is low instead. *If
it gets worse, or if I feel worse, he (Hematologist/Oncologist) said
he will give me
a shot of some kind.<<

Doctors do a bone marrow biopsy and decide the person is low in iron
because in the marrow they find low / no iron.
They then give 'iron treatments' and when he / Joe dies later the
autopsy shows MASSIVE amounts of iron ELSEWHERE ..

IE: kidneys and spleen ..

He died of a massive coronary ..

Joe had aplastic anemia ..

Sooo .. because your doctor diagnoses you iron deficient doesn't make
you iron deficient ..

Ask .. Joe ..

Oh .. yeah .. Joes .. .. dead.

Am J Clin Pathol 1983 Nov;80(5):743-5
Serum ferritin and sequestered stores of body iron.
Rao KR, Ray VH, Patel AR

A 47-year-old man with sickle cell anemia, chronic cor pulmonale, and
congestive heart failure died following a short illness.
A diagnosis of iron deficiency was established during life by usually
accepted
criteria including a low serum ferritin concentration. Autopsy showed
no stainable iron in the bone marrow, liver, and the heart. Marked
deposits of iron were seen in the kidneys and the atrophic spleen.
These findings suggest that the serum ferritin concentration may not
reflect the metabolically sequestered stores of iron in the spleen
and
the kidneys.

PMID: 6195914, UI: 84049241


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk



Just FYI, not to contribute to the discussions going
> on here. *Nanny"Michael B" <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1930e267-8a7c-48ba-83a7-3049146ff34c@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > No, the medical study is not simple. You are.

>
> > On May 19, 11:37 pm, ironjustice <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> On May 19, 6:26 pm, Michael B <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> *No, you are wrong. It is not the iron. <<

>
> >> Now .. you specifically said .. "you are wrong"..

>
> >> Now that statement means to ME an unwillingness to accept a simple
> >> medical study for what it is ..- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


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  #7  
Old 05-21-2008, 08:20 PM
Manky Badger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron


"ironjustice" <ironjustice@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4338e4b6-6a2a-4116-a00a-31bdb100cff3@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...

-blah-

These findings suggest that the serum ferritin concentration may not
reflect the metabolically sequestered stores of iron
__________________________________________________ _______________

QED


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  #8  
Old 05-22-2008, 05:35 AM
ironjustice
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

On May 21, 12:46*pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:-blah-
<<

STFU ..

Am J Clin Pathol 1983 Nov;80(5):743-5
Serum ferritin and sequestered stores of body iron.
Rao KR, Ray VH, Patel AR

A 47-year-old man with sickle cell anemia, chronic cor pulmonale, and
congestive heart failure died following a short illness.
A diagnosis of iron deficiency was established during life by usually
accepted criteria including a low serum ferritin concentration.
Autopsy showed no stainable iron in the bone marrow, liver, and the
heart.
Marked deposits of iron were seen in the kidneys and the atrophic
spleen.
These findings suggest that the serum ferritin concentration may not
reflect the metabolically sequestered stores of iron in the spleen
and the kidneys.

PMID: 6195914, UI: 84049241


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> On May 20, 9:16 pm, "nanny" <gloria...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> Actually, just for the record, I do NOT have iron overload; in fact,
> just
> learned from my bone marrow biopsy that my iron is low instead. If
> it gets worse, or if I feel worse, he (Hematologist/Oncologist) said
> he will give me
> a shot of some kind.<<
>
> Doctors do a bone marrow biopsy and decide the person is low in iron
> because in the marrow they find low / no iron.
> They then give 'iron treatments' and when he / Joe dies later the
> autopsy shows MASSIVE amounts of iron ELSEWHERE ..
>
> IE: kidneys and spleen ..
>
> He died of a massive coronary ..
>
> Joe had aplastic anemia ..
>
> Sooo .. because your doctor diagnoses you iron deficient doesn't make
> you iron deficient ..
>
> Ask .. Joe ..
>
> Oh .. yeah .. Joes .. .. dead.
>
> Am J Clin Pathol 1983 Nov;80(5):743-5
> Serum ferritin and sequestered stores of body iron.
> Rao KR, Ray VH, Patel AR
>
> A 47-year-old man with sickle cell anemia, chronic cor pulmonale, and
> congestive heart failure died following a short illness.
> A diagnosis of iron deficiency was established during life by usually
> accepted
> criteria including a low serum ferritin concentration. Autopsy showed
> no stainable iron in the bone marrow, liver, and the heart. Marked
> deposits of iron were seen in the kidneys and the atrophic spleen.
> These findings suggest that the serum ferritin concentration may not
> reflect the metabolically sequestered stores of iron in the spleen
> and
> the kidneys.
>
> PMID: 6195914, UI: 84049241
>
> Who loves ya.
> Tom
>
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian!http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
>
> Man Is A Herbivore!http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
>
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
>
> Just FYI, not to contribute to the discussions going
>
>
>
> > on here. Nanny"Michael B" <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

>
> >news:1930e267-8a7c-48ba-83a7-3049146ff34c@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

>
> > > No, the medical study is not simple. You are.

>
> > > On May 19, 11:37 pm, ironjustice <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:
> > >> On May 19, 6:26 pm, Michael B <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > >> No, you are wrong. It is not the iron. <<

>
> > >> Now .. you specifically said .. "you are wrong"..

>
> > >> Now that statement means to ME an unwillingness to accept a simple
> > >> medical study for what it is ..- Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -



> "ironjustice" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4338e4b6-6a2a-4116-a00a-31bdb100cff3@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> -blah-
>
> These findings suggest that the serum ferritin concentration may not
> reflect the metabolically sequestered stores of iron
> __________________________________________________ _______________
>
> QED


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  #9  
Old 05-22-2008, 05:35 AM
nanny
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

Well, thanks for the little bit of encouragement. However, there is a good
chance that I'll outlive you. Nanny
"ironjustice" <ironjustice@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4338e4b6-6a2a-4116-a00a-31bdb100cff3@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On May 20, 9:16 pm, "nanny" <gloria...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
Actually, just for the record, I do NOT have iron overload; in fact,
just
learned from my bone marrow biopsy that my iron is low instead. If
it gets worse, or if I feel worse, he (Hematologist/Oncologist) said
he will give me
a shot of some kind.<<

Doctors do a bone marrow biopsy and decide the person is low in iron
because in the marrow they find low / no iron.
They then give 'iron treatments' and when he / Joe dies later the
autopsy shows MASSIVE amounts of iron ELSEWHERE ..

IE: kidneys and spleen ..

He died of a massive coronary ..

Joe had aplastic anemia ..

Sooo .. because your doctor diagnoses you iron deficient doesn't make
you iron deficient ..

Ask .. Joe ..

Oh .. yeah .. Joes .. .. dead.

Am J Clin Pathol 1983 Nov;80(5):743-5
Serum ferritin and sequestered stores of body iron.
Rao KR, Ray VH, Patel AR

A 47-year-old man with sickle cell anemia, chronic cor pulmonale, and
congestive heart failure died following a short illness.
A diagnosis of iron deficiency was established during life by usually
accepted
criteria including a low serum ferritin concentration. Autopsy showed
no stainable iron in the bone marrow, liver, and the heart. Marked
deposits of iron were seen in the kidneys and the atrophic spleen.
These findings suggest that the serum ferritin concentration may not
reflect the metabolically sequestered stores of iron in the spleen
and
the kidneys.

PMID: 6195914, UI: 84049241


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk



Just FYI, not to contribute to the discussions going
> on here. Nanny"Michael B" <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1930e267-8a7c-48ba-83a7-3049146ff34c@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > No, the medical study is not simple. You are.

>
> > On May 19, 11:37 pm, ironjustice <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> On May 19, 6:26 pm, Michael B <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> No, you are wrong. It is not the iron. <<

>
> >> Now .. you specifically said .. "you are wrong"..

>
> >> Now that statement means to ME an unwillingness to accept a simple
> >> medical study for what it is ..- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -



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  #10  
Old 05-22-2008, 12:54 PM
Manky Badger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron


"ironjustice" <teamtanner@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1f2b00d0-e4b3-45de-97d9-333f3817951c@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On May 21, 12:46 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:-blah-
<<

Autopsy showed no stainable iron in the bone marrow, liver, and the
heart.
Marked deposits of iron were seen in the kidneys and the atrophic
spleen.
These findings suggest that the serum ferritin concentration may not
reflect the metabolically sequestered stores of iron in the spleen
and the kidneys.

__________________________________________________ ________

QED - another own goal


Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-22-2008, 02:46 PM
ironjustice
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

On May 22, 1:02*am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: no
stainable iron in the bone marrow, liver, and the heart. <<

The standard test of ferritin does not tell you whether or not you are
iron deficient.
It is unreliable and the consequences are a .. killer.
They give you iron and you die.

"Ferritin concentration may not reflect sequestered stores of iron"

Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk



> "ironjustice" <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1f2b00d0-e4b3-45de-97d9-333f3817951c@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On May 21, 12:46 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:-blah-
> <<
>
> Autopsy showed no stainable iron in the bone marrow, liver, and the
> heart.
> Marked deposits of iron were seen in the kidneys and the atrophic
> spleen.
> These findings suggest that the serum ferritin concentration may not
> reflect the metabolically sequestered stores of iron in the spleen
> and the kidneys.
>
> __________________________________________________ ________
>
> QED - another own goal


Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-22-2008, 09:55 PM
Manky Badger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron


"ironjustice" <teamtanner@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb427bd0-dee0-46a5-91b3-9d4b1c2e6b5c@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
On May 22, 1:02 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: no
stainable iron in the bone marrow, liver, and the heart. <<

The standard test of ferritin does not tell you whether or not you are
iron deficient.
It is unreliable and the consequences are a .. killer.
They give you iron and you die.

"Ferritin concentration may not reflect sequestered stores of iron"
__________________________________________________ _________

Yes - absolutely. I read that the first time, and now you score another own
goal.
Give up now Tommy - it's like the ESR all over again. You don't understand
the article, and the more you post about it, the more you demonstrate your
lack of understanding.
You were given the chance, and you chose not to take it.


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  #13  
Old 05-22-2008, 09:55 PM
ironjustice
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

On May 22, 2:21*pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: You
don't understand the article <<

"It is unreliable and the consequences are they give you iron when you
have aplastic anemia and you die."

I think it is you who don't seem to understand a simple sentence.

How about the part of iron chelation CURES him of his aplastic
anemia .. ?
It is only a ten sentence article.
Are you able to understand .. that .. ?

The first article is 24 years old.
Gave you plenty of time.
It is only a ten sentence article.

You STILL say .. "ferritin is a reliable marker to use" ..

"It is unreliable and the consequences are they give you iron and you
die."

You should kinda get your sht together seeing you purport to be some
kind of pathology .. interested .. guy ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> "ironjustice" <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:cb427bd0-dee0-46a5-91b3-9d4b1c2e6b5c@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> On May 22, 1:02 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: no
> stainable iron in the bone marrow, liver, and the heart. *<<
>
> The standard test of ferritin does not tell you whether or not you are
> iron deficient.
> It is unreliable and the consequences are a .. killer.
> They give you iron and you die.
>
> "Ferritin concentration may not reflect sequestered stores of iron"
> __________________________________________________ _________
>
> Yes - absolutely. I read that the first time, and now you score another own
> goal.
> Give up now Tommy - it's like the ESR all over again. You don't understand
> the article, and the more you post about it, the more you demonstrate your
> lack of understanding.
> You were given the chance, and you chose not to take it.


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  #14  
Old 05-23-2008, 01:01 AM
Manky Badger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron


"ironjustice" <ironjustice@cashette.com> wrote in message
news:012a443a-f7d7-4a8f-aec7-a8f8c12097b9@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On May 22, 2:21 pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: You
don't understand the article <<


You STILL say .. "ferritin is a reliable marker to use" ..
__________________________________________________ ___

Do I ? Where did I say that?

As is so often the case here Tommy, you are wrong (yet) again.
This latest spat has merely proved that you *don't* understand the article
in question.


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  #15  
Old 05-23-2008, 01:01 AM
ironjustice
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

On May 22, 2:54*pm, ironjustice <ironjust...@cashette.com> wrote:They
give you iron and you die <<

I suppose die .. screaming .. would be more appropriate.


IRON DEPOSITION IN THE JOINTS OF CHILDREN WITH JUVENILE RHEUMATOID
ARTHRITIS


Author(s):
SHYPAILO ROMAN J
ELLIS KENNETH J
PEREZ MARIA
ABRAMS STEVEN A


Interpretive Summary:
We wanted to develop an accurate and noninvasive way of
determining the amount of iron deposited in the joints of
patients with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. Children with
JRA
often develop excess iron in their joints, so doctors need
a
way of monitoring the iron level, particularly when
prescribing
iron supplements for the common problem of anemia. However,
the
only method currently available is to take a biopsy. We
adapted
a machine called a gamma counter to measure the iron in
eight
patients' joints after giving them an iron isotope by vein.
Then we compared the results with the total amount of iron
in
their bodies, measured by a whole-body counter. We found
that
we had developed an accurate new way of measuring iron in
these
patients' joints. We also found that six of the eight
subjects
had excess uptake of the iron isotope in their joints. That
provided a signal that a preponderance of JRA patients are
prone to have this problem, and clinicians should take
special
care to monitor them for it. Moreover, this is the first
time a
noninvasive way of performing this measurement has been
available.


Keywords:
energy reproduction growth body composition women infants
children water potassium bioelectrical impedance
conductance
bromide space lactating iron adipose tissue lipid
motabolism
beta-adrenergic receptor cell culture neutron activation
nitrogen carbon calcium sodium chlorine phosphorus hormonal
changes differentiation adipocyte hnrim021125


Contact:
USDA/ARS CHILDREN'S NUTR
1100 BATES ST.
HOUSTON
TX 77030
FAX: (713)798-7130
Email: kel...@bcm.tmc.edu


Approved Date: 1999-01-07

__________________________________________________ ____________________


TEKTRAN
United States Department of Agriculture
Agricultural Research Service


Updated: 1999-01-16


----------------------------------------

Title: Mechanism of exacerbation of rheumatoid synovitis by total-
dose
iron-dextran infusion: in-vivo demonstration of iron-promoted
oxidant
stress.


Author(s): Winyard PG; Blake DR; Chirico S; Gutteridge JM; Lunec J


Source: Lancet 1987 Jan 10;1(8524):69-72


Abstract: The mechanism by which a synovial flare occurred in a
patient with rheumatoid arthritis after intravenous infusion of
iron-dextran was investigated. After the infusion, serum and
synovial-fluid iron-binding capacity became saturated, giving rise
to
low-molecular-mass iron chelates with the capacity to cause
oxidative
damage ("bleomycin-iron"). At the same time lipid peroxidation and
the
concentration of oxidised ascorbic acid (dehydroascorbate)
increased
in both serum and synovial fluid, and red-cell glutathione fell.
These
changes corresponded closely to an exacerbation of rheumatoid
synovitis. Hepatic function was transiently disturbed 7 days after
the
infusion, reflecting hepatic oxidant stress within the iron-loaded
liver. Such changes provide clear evidence that iron-catalysed
oxidative reactions influence the inflammatory process in human
beings


Major Indexes:
* Arthritis, Rheumatoid [metabolism]
* Iron-Dextran Complex [adverse effects]
* Iron [metabolism]
* Synovitis [metabolism]


Minor Indexes:
* Bleomycins [diagnostic use]
* Glutathione [blood]
* Infusions, Intravenous
* Iron-Dextran Complex [administration & dosage]
* Knee Joint [physiopathology]
* Lipid Peroxides [metabolism]
* Liver [metabolism]
* Middle Age


Reagent Names:
* 0 (Bleomycins)
* 0 (Lipid Peroxides)
* 70-18-8 (Glutathione)
* 7439-89-6 (Iron)
* 9004-66-4 (Iron-Dextran Complex)


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk






> On May 22, 2:21*pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: You
> don't understand the article <<
>
> "It is unreliable and the consequences are they give you iron when you
> have aplastic anemia and you die."
>
> I think it is you who don't seem to understand a simple sentence.
>
> How about the part of iron chelation CURES him of his aplastic
> anemia .. ?
> It is only a ten sentence article.
> Are you able to understand .. that .. ?
>
> The first article is 24 years old.
> Gave you plenty of time.
> It is only a ten sentence article.
>
> You STILL say .. "ferritin is a reliable marker to use" ..
>
> "It is unreliable and the consequences are they give you iron and you
> die."
>
> You should kinda get your sht together seeing you purport to be some
> kind of pathology .. interested .. guy ..
>
> Who loves ya.
> Tom
>
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian!http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
>
> Man Is A Herbivore!http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
>
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
>
>
>
> > "ironjustice" <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>
> >news:cb427bd0-dee0-46a5-91b3-9d4b1c2e6b5c@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> > On May 22, 1:02 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: no
> > stainable iron in the bone marrow, liver, and the heart. *<<

>
> > The standard test of ferritin does not tell you whether or not you are
> > iron deficient.
> > It is unreliable and the consequences are a .. killer.
> > They give you iron and you die.

>
> > "Ferritin concentration may not reflect sequestered stores of iron"
> > __________________________________________________ _________

>
> > Yes - absolutely. I read that the first time, and now you score another own
> > goal.
> > Give up now Tommy - it's like the ESR all over again. You don't understand
> > the article, and the more you post about it, the more you demonstrate your
> > lack of understanding.
> > You were given the chance, and you chose not to take it.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-23-2008, 01:01 AM
Manky Badger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron


"ironjustice" <ironjustice@cashette.com> wrote in message
news:2dcb5a5f-a7d4-4523-8498-07bec6569212@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On May 22, 2:54 pm, ironjustice <ironjust...@cashette.com> wrote:They
give you iron and you die <<

I suppose die .. screaming .. would be more appropriate.


IRON DEPOSITION IN THE JOINTS OF CHILDREN WITH JUVENILE RHEUMATOID
ARTHRITIS


Author(s):
SHYPAILO ROMAN J
ELLIS KENNETH J
PEREZ MARIA
ABRAMS STEVEN A

__________________________________________________ ___________________________

Four own goals, Tommy.


Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-23-2008, 01:01 AM
ironjustice
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

On May 22, 3:05*pm, ironjustice <ironjust...@cashette.com> wrote:
JUVENILE RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS <<
Rheumatoid factor (RF)
This is evidence of erythrocytosis / increased red blood cell
production .
Rheumatoid factor (RF) rises as one goes to altitude.
The higher you go the higher your RF and the higher your red blood
cell count / erythrocytosis.

http://www.labtestsonline.org.au/und...tions/jra.html

Rheumatoid factor (RF) – may be positive or negative depending on the
type of JRA;

Am J Med Sci. 2003 Sep;326(3):148-51. Related Articles, Links


Successful treatment with cyclosporin in adult-onset still disease
manifesting
as acute hepatitis with marked hyperferritinemia.


Omagari K, Matsunaga Y, Yamashita H, Nishiyama H, Hazama H, Oda H,
Isomoto H,
Mizuta Y, Murase K, Kohno S.


SUMMARY: ABSTRACT A 48-year-old woman was admitted because of spiking
high
fever, sore throat, and jaundice. A diagnosis was made of adult-onset
Still
disease (AOSD) presenting with acute hepatitis and very high serum
ferritin
levels (32,240 ng/mL), and she was treated with 2 courses of pulse
therapy of
methylprednisolone (2 g/day for 3 days) followed by 40 mg/day
prednisolone.
Subsequently, the serum level of ferritin decreased, but serum total
bilirubin
increased to 17.3 mg/dL. Therefore, cyclosporin was administered
orally. Within
the next 3 months, results of liver function tests, as well as serum
levels of
ferritin, soluble interleukin-2 receptor, interferon-gamma,
interleukin-6, and
tumor necrosis factor-alpha gradually returned to within normal
limits, and
cyclosporin administration was subsequently reduced gradually. The
clinical
presentation suggests that AOSD should be considered when liver
dysfunction is
accompanied with high fever and extreme hyperferritinemia, and that
treatment
with cyclosporin or other immunosuppressive drugs that selectively
suppress
cytokine production by helper T cells is a valuable option in the
treatment of
AOSD with very high serum ferritin levels.


PMID: 14501232 [PubMed - in process]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now WHY .. in these three DIFFERENT diseases .. does the drop of iron
.. PARALLEL .. the drop in alanine aminotransferase (ALT) .. but in
the
disease of .. juvenile rheumatoid arthritis / Still's .. do they
NOT ..
use this marker .. WHEN .. iron HAS been shown to BE a ..
problem .. ?

Especially .. when they have such high liver injury rates. Two
thirds.


Stupidity .. ?


<<snip>>
There was a positive correlation between transaminases and serum
ferritin
<<snip>>


J Nephrol. 2003 Sep-Oct; 16(5): 703-9. Related Articles, Links


Comparative study of intravenous ascorbic acid versus low-dose
desferroxamine
in patients on hemodialysis with hyperferritinemia.


Deira J, Diego J, Martinez R, Oyarbide A, Gonzalez A, Diaz H, Grande
J.


Department of Internal Medicine, Division of Nephrology, Hospital
Virgen de la
Concha, Zamora, Spain. jde...@saludalia.com


BACKGROUND: In patients on hemodialysis (HD), parenteral iron
improves
the
response to recombinant human erythropoietin (rhuEPO) therapy, but in
some
subjects it produces an iron overload, increasing their morbidity and
mortality
rates. In these cases, iron administration must be discontinued. This
study
aimed to investigate the efficiency of treatment with ascorbic acid
(AA) or
desferroxamine (DFO) to mobilize and reduce iron stores, and to
determine the
effect of these compounds on erythropoiesis. METHODS: We performed a
prospective and randomized trial over 6 months, which included 27
patients with
serum ferritin levels >800 ng/mL, TSAT >30% and stabilized hemoglobin
(Hb) and
rhuEPO doses. All patients had previously received parenteral iron
(Ferlecit).
Nine patients received 200 mg of intravenous (i.v.) AA 3 times/week
and
nine
patients received 1 mg/Kg/week of DFO; the remaining nine patients
were
the
control group. RESULTS: There were no significant differences in iron
loss or
mobilization due to dialysis. When Ferlecit was discontinued,
functional iron
did not vary and the epoetin resistance index (rhuEPO dose/Hb) was
reduced by
21% in the i.v. AA group. In the DFO and control groups, functional
iron levels
fell. In the DFO group the epoetin resistance index increased by 20%,
with no
modifications in the control group. There was a positive correlation
between
transaminases and serum ferritin. CONCLUSIONS: In HD patients with an
iron
overload, neither i.v. AA administration or low-dose DFO increased
iron


mobilization or iron loss due to dialysis. I.v. AA administration
allows
elimination of iron from stores without any drop in the functional
iron


produced by discontinuing parenteral maintenance iron; it also
improves
the
response to rhuEPO. DFO did not elicit any positive effects on
erythropoiesis.


PMID: 14733417 [PubMed - in process]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


------


<<snip>>
The treatment reduced mean serum alanine aminotransferase (ALT)
activity
<<snip>>


Effect of iron reduction by phlebotomy in Japanese patients with
nonalcoholic steatohepatitis: A pilot study.
Sumida Y, Kanemasa K, Fukumoto K, Yoshida N, Sakai K, Nakashima T,
Okanoue T
Hepatol Res. 2006 Sep 11;


Increased hepatic iron deposition may play a role in the pathogenesis
of nonalcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH). This study aimed to test
whether iron removal by phlebotomy improves serum transaminase
activities in patients with NASH. Eleven patients (six males and five
females) with biopsy-proven NASH underwent phlebotomy biweekly until
they reached near-iron deficiency (NID) (serum ferritin concentration
lower than or equal to 30ng/ml). Nine patients completed this study.
Serum ferritin levels in these patients fell from 563+/-322 to
18+/-9ng/ml (p=0.001). The treatment reduced mean serum alanine
aminotransferase (ALT) activity from 126+/-47 to 56+/-17IU/l
(p=0.002).


Their weight did not change significantly throughout the study
period.
Although two patients withdrew from the study, none was affected by
any


side effects of repeated phlebotomy that required discontinuing the
treatment. In conclusion, this pilot study suggests that iron
reduction


therapy by phlebotomy will be one of the promising therapies for
NASH.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
<<snip>>
Serum alanine aminotransferase levels were significantly improved
<<snip>>


Hepatogastroenterology. 2005 Mar-Apr;52(62):563-6. Related Articles,
Links


Additional effect of low iron diet on iron reduction therapy by
phlebotomy for chronic hepatitis C.


Kimura F, Hayashi H, Yano M, Yoshioka K, Matsumura T, Fukuda T,
Shigeto


N, Yamahara S, Koushi F, Mishima Y, Yoshino T, Tanimoto M, Kimura I.


Department of Internal Medicine, Tamano-Municipal Hospital, Tamano
City, Okayama, Japan. f-kim...@po1.oninet.ne.jp


BACKGROUND/AIMS: Iron-induced oxidative stress plays an important
role
in the pathogenesis of chronic hepatitis C. Both phlebotomy for
removing body iron stores and low iron diet for minimizing portal
iron
supply to the liver have been shown to improve serum transaminase
levels in patients with the disease. However, the cooperative effects
of phlebotomy and low iron diet have not yet been elucidated in
detail.


METHODOLOGY: A pilot study was undertaken to investigate whether a
low
iron diet could improve the efficacy of phlebotomy in iron reduction
therapy. Of 21 patients diagnosed with chronic hepatitis C, 10
patients


were treated with phlebotomy alone (group A) while 11 patients were
treated with a low iron plus phlebotomy (group B). Phlebotomy was
repeated biweekly until serum ferritin levels reached 10 ng/mL in
both
A and B groups. In addition, a low iron diet (iron intake of 8 mg/day
or less) was recommended for group B, followed by estimation of iron
intake from daily diet records.


RESULTS: Serum alanine aminotransferase
levels were significantly improved from 106+/-30 to 68+/-22 IU/L
(p<0.005, paired t-test) in group A and from 100+/-33 to 46+/-10 IU/L
(p<0.002, paired t-test) in group B. The enzyme levels after
treatment
were significantly higher in group A (p<0.02, non-paired t-test),
which


showed a higher upward distribution of the enzyme activity. The
estimated dietary iron intake in group B was reduced from 17.6+/-6.1
to


8.2+/-3.7 mg/day.


CONCLUSIONS: These findings suggest that phlebotomy
alone does not completely remove iron-induced oxidative stress and a
low iron diet induces an additional effect in iron reduction therapy
for chronic hepatitis C.


PMID: 15816478 [PubMed - in process]


---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk



> On May 22, 2:54*pm, ironjustice <ironjust...@cashette.com> wrote:They
> give you iron and you die <<
>
> I suppose die .. screaming .. would be more appropriate.
>
> IRON DEPOSITION IN THE JOINTS OF CHILDREN WITH JUVENILE RHEUMATOID
> ARTHRITIS
>
> * *Author(s):
> * * * * * SHYPAILO ROMAN J
> * * * * * ELLIS KENNETH J
> * * * * * PEREZ MARIA
> * * * * * ABRAMS STEVEN A
>
> * *Interpretive Summary:
> * * * * * We wanted to develop an accurate and noninvasive way of
> * * * * * determining the amount of iron deposited in the jointsof
> * * * * * patients with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. Children with
> JRA
> * * * * * often develop excess iron in their joints, so doctors need
> a
> * * * * * way of monitoring the iron level, particularly when
> prescribing
> * * * * * iron supplements for the common problem of anemia. However,
> the
> * * * * * only method currently available is to take a biopsy. We
> adapted
> * * * * * a machine called a gamma counter to measure the iron in
> eight
> * * * * * patients' joints after giving them an iron isotope by vein.
> * * * * * Then we compared the results with the total amount of iron
> in
> * * * * * their bodies, measured by a whole-body counter. We found
> that
> * * * * * we had developed an accurate new way of measuring ironin
> these
> * * * * * patients' joints. We also found that six of the eight
> subjects
> * * * * * had excess uptake of the iron isotope in their joints.That
> * * * * * provided a signal that a preponderance of JRA patientsare
> * * * * * prone to have this problem, and clinicians should take
> special
> * * * * * care to monitor them for it. Moreover, this is the first
> time a
> * * * * * noninvasive way of performing this measurement has been
> * * * * * available.
>
> * *Keywords:
> * * * * * energy reproduction growth body composition women infants
> * * * * * children water potassium bioelectrical impedance
> conductance
> * * * * * bromide space lactating iron adipose tissue lipid
> motabolism
> * * * * * beta-adrenergic receptor cell culture neutron activation
> * * * * * nitrogen carbon calcium sodium chlorine phosphorus hormonal
> * * * * * changes differentiation adipocyte hnrim021125
>
> * *Contact:
> * * * * * USDA/ARS CHILDREN'S NUTR
> * * * * * 1100 BATES ST.
> * * * * * HOUSTON
> * * * * * TX 77030
> * * * * * FAX: (713)798-7130
> * * * * * Email: kel...@bcm.tmc.edu
>
> * *Approved Date: 1999-01-07
>
> __________________________________________________ ____________________
>
> * * TEKTRAN
> * * United States Department of Agriculture
> * * Agricultural Research Service
>
> * *Updated: 1999-01-16
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> * *Title: Mechanism of exacerbation of rheumatoid synovitis by total-
> dose
> * *iron-dextran infusion: in-vivo demonstration of iron-promoted
> oxidant
> * *stress.
>
> * *Author(s): Winyard PG; Blake DR; Chirico S; Gutteridge JM; Lunec J
>
> * *Source: Lancet 1987 Jan 10;1(8524):69-72
>
> * *Abstract: The mechanism by which a synovial flare occurred in a
> * *patient with rheumatoid arthritis after intravenous infusion of
> * *iron-dextran was investigated. After the infusion, serum and
> * *synovial-fluid iron-binding capacity became saturated, giving rise
> to
> * *low-molecular-mass iron chelates with the capacity to cause
> oxidative
> * *damage ("bleomycin-iron"). At the same time lipid peroxidation and
> the
> * *concentration of oxidised ascorbic acid (dehydroascorbate)
> increased
> * *in both serum and synovial fluid, and red-cell glutathione fell.
> These
> * *changes corresponded closely to an exacerbation of rheumatoid
> * *synovitis. Hepatic function was transiently disturbed 7 days after
> the
> * *infusion, reflecting hepatic oxidant stress within the iron-loaded
> * *liver. Such changes provide clear evidence that iron-catalysed
> * *oxidative reactions influence the inflammatory process in human
> beings
>
> * *Major Indexes:
> * * ** Arthritis, Rheumatoid [metabolism]
> * * ** Iron-Dextran Complex [adverse effects]
> * * ** Iron [metabolism]
> * * ** Synovitis [metabolism]
>
> * *Minor Indexes:
> * * ** Bleomycins [diagnostic use]
> * * ** Glutathione [blood]
> * * ** Infusions, Intravenous
> * * ** Iron-Dextran Complex [administration & dosage]
> * * ** Knee Joint [physiopathology]
> * * ** Lipid Peroxides [metabolism]
> * * ** Liver [metabolism]
> * * ** Middle Age
>
> * *Reagent Names:
> * * ** 0 (Bleomycins)
> * * ** 0 (Lipid Peroxides)
> * * ** 70-18-8 (Glutathione)
> * * ** 7439-89-6 (Iron)
> * * ** 9004-66-4 (Iron-Dextran Complex)
>
> Who loves ya.
> Tom
>
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian!http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
>
> Man Is A Herbivore!http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
>
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
>
>
>
> > On May 22, 2:21*pm, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: You
> > don't understand the article <<

>
> > "It is unreliable and the consequences are they give you iron when you
> > have aplastic anemia and you die."

>
> > I think it is you who don't seem to understand a simple sentence.

>
> > How about the part of iron chelation CURES him of his aplastic
> > anemia .. ?
> > It is only a ten sentence article.
> > Are you able to understand .. that .. ?

>
> > The first article is 24 years old.
> > Gave you plenty of time.
> > It is only a ten sentence article.

>
> > You STILL say .. "ferritin is a reliable marker to use" ..

>
> > "It is unreliable and the consequences are they give you iron and you
> > die."

>
> > You should kinda get your sht together seeing you purport to be some
> > kind of pathology .. interested .. guy ..

>
> > Who loves ya.
> > Tom

>
> > Jesus Was A Vegetarian!http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

>
> > Man Is A Herbivore!http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

>
> > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

>
> > > "ironjustice" <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>
> > >news:cb427bd0-dee0-46a5-91b3-9d4b1c2e6b5c@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com....
> > > On May 22, 1:02 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote: no
> > > stainable iron in the bone marrow, liver, and the heart. *<<

>
> > > The standard test of ferritin does not tell you whether or not you are
> > > iron deficient.
> > > It is unreliable and the consequences are a .. killer.
> > > They give you iron and you die.

>
> > > "Ferritin concentration may not reflect sequestered stores of iron"
> > > __________________________________________________ _________

>
> > > Yes - absolutely. I read that the first time, and now you score another own
> > > goal.
> > > Give up now Tommy - it's like the ESR all over again. You don't understand
> > > the article, and the more you post about it, the more you demonstrate your
> > > lack of understanding.
> > > You were given the chance, and you chose not to take it.- Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-23-2008, 01:01 AM
ironjustice
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

On May 21, 9:55*pm, "nanny" <gloria...@woh.rr.com> wrote:there is a
good
chance that I'll outlive you. <<

Between pipe bombs and guys like the UK boy scout leader .. you might
be right .. ?

"Dr. Semmelweis died from injuries suffered when he was beaten as a
patient in an insane asylum."
"Doctors didn’t want to contemplate that they could in fact be causing
death as opposed to healing people."

http://www.eceblogger.com/?p=114


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk



> Well, thanks for the little bit of encouragement. *However, there is a good
> chance that I'll outlive you. *Nanny"ironjustice" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4338e4b6-6a2a-4116-a00a-31bdb100cff3@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On May 20, 9:16 pm, "nanny" <gloria...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> *Actually, just for the record, I do NOT have iron overload; in fact,
> just
> *learned from my bone marrow biopsy that my iron is low instead. If
> it gets worse, or if I feel worse, he (Hematologist/Oncologist) said
> he will give me
> *a shot of some kind.<<
>
> Doctors do a bone marrow biopsy and decide the person is low in iron
> because in the marrow they find low / no iron.
> They then give 'iron treatments' and when he / Joe dies later the
> autopsy shows MASSIVE amounts of iron ELSEWHERE ..
>
> IE: kidneys and spleen ..
>
> He died of a massive coronary ..
>
> Joe had aplastic anemia ..
>
> Sooo .. because your doctor diagnoses you iron deficient doesn't make
> you iron deficient ..
>
> Ask .. Joe ..
>
> Oh .. yeah .. Joes .. .. dead.
>
> Am J Clin Pathol 1983 Nov;80(5):743-5
> Serum ferritin and sequestered stores of body iron.
> Rao KR, Ray VH, Patel AR
>
> A 47-year-old man with sickle cell anemia, chronic cor pulmonale, and
> congestive heart failure died following a short illness.
> A diagnosis of iron deficiency was established during life by usually
> accepted
> criteria including a low serum ferritin concentration. Autopsy showed
> no stainable iron in the bone marrow, liver, and the heart. Marked
> deposits of iron were seen in the kidneys and the atrophic spleen.
> These findings suggest that the serum ferritin concentration may not
> reflect the metabolically sequestered stores of iron in the spleen
> and
> the kidneys.
>
> PMID: 6195914, UI: 84049241
>
> Who loves ya.
> Tom
>
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian!http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh
>
> Man Is A Herbivore!http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
>
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
>
> Just FYI, not to contribute to the discussions going
>
>
>
> > on here. Nanny"Michael B" <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

>
> >news:1930e267-8a7c-48ba-83a7-3049146ff34c@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

>
> > > No, the medical study is not simple. You are.

>
> > > On May 19, 11:37 pm, ironjustice <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:
> > >> On May 19, 6:26 pm, Michael B <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > >> No, you are wrong. It is not the iron. <<

>
> > >> Now .. you specifically said .. "you are wrong"..

>
> > >> Now that statement means to ME an unwillingness to accept a simple
> > >> medical study for what it is ..- Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-23-2008, 10:06 AM
Manky Badger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron


"ironjustice" <ironjustice@cashette.com> wrote in message
news:ecbbe1d6-ca32-4266-acb5-e96b7bb78342@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On May 21, 9:55 pm, "nanny" <gloria...@woh.rr.com> wrote:there is a
good
chance that I'll outlive you. <<

Between pipe bombs and guys like the UK boy scout leader .. you might
be right .. ?

"Dr. Semmelweis died from injuries suffered when he was beaten as a
patient in an insane asylum."
"Doctors didn’t want to contemplate that they could in fact be causing
death as opposed to healing people."
__________________________________________________ ________

So is this saying that you are suffering from some medical condition or that
you are in an insane asylum?



Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-23-2008, 12:46 PM
Michael B
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

In spite of my frequent annoyance with him, my observation is
that he expressed it pretty well. With the note of the doctors
not wanting to contemplate that they were killing instead of
healing. He has noted that the true iron deposits are not of
necessity reflected by standard diagnostics, also valid.
Then he threw in the proposal that Nanny would be likely
killed by her doctors getting low iron reading from bone biopsy
and consequently calling for iron supplementation which would
result in the dreaded iron overload.
However, I'm not sure why he hasn't offered the proposition of
red cell ferritin perhaps being more reflective of iron status,
rather
than serum ferritin.
He also hasn't done much to remind about mitochondrial damage
and dysfunction in iron overload, but that's more pathophysiology
than he appears to be interested in. I find that rather curious, in
view of the crossposted newsgroups tending to have low energy
capacity.

On May 23, 3:54 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:
> "ironjustice" <ironjust...@cashette.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ecbbe1d6-ca32-4266-acb5-e96b7bb78342@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On May 21, 9:55 pm, "nanny" <gloria...@woh.rr.com> wrote:there is a
> good
> chance that I'll outlive you. <<
>
> Between pipe bombs and guys like the UK boy scout leader .. you might
> be right .. ?
>
> "Dr. Semmelweis died from injuries suffered when he was beaten as a
> patient in an insane asylum."
> "Doctors didn’t want to contemplate that they could in fact be causing
> death as opposed to healing people."
> __________________________________________________ ________
>
> So is this saying that you are suffering from some medical condition or that
> you are in an insane asylum?


Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-23-2008, 03:41 PM
ironjustice
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

On May 23, 3:57*am, Michael B <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:view of
the crossposted newsgroups tending to have low energy
capacity <<

Is that like sort of supposed to be a .. pun .. ?

Low energy / fatigue ?

Actually .. the pathologic .. group is only included because of the ..
evidence .. the sci.group gives.

Sort of like .. give him an inch and he'll hang himself ..

I placed a simple article .. really simple.

The common tests or uncommon tests or any tests at all for iron
deficiency are unreliable.

Instead of just shutting up .. he attempts to make people believe the
OPPOSITE or attempts like in YOUR case this time .. to 'slightly'
change .. 'wording' in order now AGAIN to attempt to .. confuse and ..
**bore** and raise some type of possibility 'bolster' this possible
misconception OF the article BEING .. **correct** as the poster / me
clearly points .. out.

It is a method.
It is a type of warfare.

"The tests the medical profession uses to diagnose iron deficiency ARE
reliable."

When the article .. a ten line article says JUST the oposite.

Now many times it isn't always QUITE so .. evident .. as to the type
of warfare attempted.

"Iron deficiency was established by usually accepted criteria"

"Ferrtin is unreliable and the consequences are death."

In this case straight out lying seems to be being used .. also ..
'crackpot' .. was thrown in ..

Now you and manky seem to want to make it SEEM to be hard to
understand ..

Why is that .. ?

"Misdiagnosed iron deficiency established by accepted criteria causes
people to die screaming"

Pretty simple to understand ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk




> In spite of my frequent annoyance with him, my observation is
> that he expressed it pretty well. *With the note of the doctors
> not wanting to contemplate that they were killing instead of
> healing. He has noted that the true iron deposits are not of
> necessity reflected by standard diagnostics, also valid.
> Then he threw in the proposal that Nanny would be likely
> killed by her doctors getting low iron reading from bone biopsy
> and consequently calling for iron supplementation which would
> result in the dreaded iron overload.
> However, I'm not sure why he hasn't offered the proposition of
> red cell ferritin perhaps being more reflective of iron status,
> rather
> than serum ferritin.
> He also hasn't done much to remind about mitochondrial damage
> and dysfunction in iron overload, but that's more pathophysiology
> than he appears to be interested in. I find that rather curious, in
> view of the crossposted newsgroups tending to have low energy
> capacity.
>
> On May 23, 3:54 am, "Manky Badger" <you.m...@be.joking> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "ironjustice" <ironjust...@cashette.com> wrote in message

>
> >news:ecbbe1d6-ca32-4266-acb5-e96b7bb78342@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> > On May 21, 9:55 pm, "nanny" <gloria...@woh.rr.com> wrote:there is a
> > good
> > *chance that I'll outlive you. <<

>
> > Between pipe bombs and guys like the UK boy scout leader .. you might
> > be right .. ?

>
> > "Dr. Semmelweis died from injuries suffered when he was beaten as a
> > patient in an insane asylum."
> > "Doctors didn’t want to contemplate that they could in fact be causing
> > death as opposed to healing people."
> > __________________________________________________ ________

>
> > So is this saying that you are suffering from some medical condition or that
> > you are in an insane asylum?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-23-2008, 10:00 PM
Michael B
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

Simple question for you, I'm sure you'll understand.

Don't you really mean misdiagnosed iron overload?

The condition, and the diagnosis, need to be the same.

Maybe you're just trying to make it hard to understand.
Rather like the doctors you mentioned, not really being successful
at doing what they thought they were doing.

On May 23, 10:38 am, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 23, 3:57 am, Michael B <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:view of
>
> Now you and manky seem to want to make it SEEM to be hard to
> understand ..
>
> Why is that .. ?
>
> "Misdiagnosed iron deficiency established by accepted criteria causes
> people to die screaming"
>
> Pretty simple to understand ..

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-23-2008, 10:00 PM
ironjustice
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not The Iron

On May 23, 1:23*pm, Michael B <baugh...@bellsouth.net> wrote: Don't
you really mean misdiagnosed iron overload? <<

What I really mean is doctors CANNOT **reliably** diagnose iron
deficiency.

Is that hard to understand .. ?

IE: "BECAUSE your doctor diagnoses you iron deficient doesn't MAKE
you iron deficient"

They specifically mention what they did wrong.

They **misdiagnosed** iron deficiency ..

"Iron deficiency was established"

Try to twist it ..

Twist it for .. your pal .. nanny .. confuse .. her ..

Heh .. heh ..

Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING