OT Colorado Smoking Law Upheld

We breathed a collective (smoke-free) sigh of relief when a judge here
upheld the Colorado Clean Indoor Act which Socks worked so hard to get
passed. Some bars united & filed suit claiming that since casinos weren't
covered, the law was unfair, discretionary. The ruling came a couple of
days ago & I am very relieved & happy.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4524907

Fig

Figgertoes said...
> We breathed a collective (smoke-free) sigh of relief when a judge here
> upheld the Colorado Clean Indoor Act which Socks worked so hard to get
> passed. Some bars united & filed suit claiming that since casinos weren't
> covered, the law was unfair, discretionary. The ruling came a couple of
> days ago & I am very relieved & happy.
>
> http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4524907
>
Phew, I bet you're relieved. That's fantastic news, Fig. The bars are
right though, it is unfair that some premises are exempt. I can quite
understand why they were annoyed by the discrimination. Any chance of
forcing the law makers to include casinos in the blanket ban? Makes far
more sense than exempting the bars et al.

--
Em

Emily wrote:

> Figgertoes said...
>
>>We breathed a collective (smoke-free) sigh of relief when a judge here
>>upheld the Colorado Clean Indoor Act which Socks worked so hard to get
>>passed. Some bars united & filed suit claiming that since casinos weren't
>>covered, the law was unfair, discretionary. The ruling came a couple of
>>days ago & I am very relieved & happy.
>>
>>http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4524907
>>
>
> Phew, I bet you're relieved. That's fantastic news, Fig. The bars are
> right though, it is unfair that some premises are exempt. I can quite
> understand why they were annoyed by the discrimination. Any chance of
> forcing the law makers to include casinos in the blanket ban? Makes far
> more sense than exempting the bars et al.
>
The casinos are on Indian lands and the state does not have jurisdiction.

--
******************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* http://bobcathoh.50megs.com/tinLC/ *
* david l kayp at earthlink dot net *
******************************************

Emily wrote:

> Figgertoes said...
>
>>We breathed a collective (smoke-free) sigh of relief when a judge here
>>upheld the Colorado Clean Indoor Act which Socks worked so hard to get
>>passed. Some bars united & filed suit claiming that since casinos weren't
>>covered, the law was unfair, discretionary. The ruling came a couple of
>>days ago & I am very relieved & happy.
>>
>>http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4524907
>>
>
> Phew, I bet you're relieved. That's fantastic news, Fig. The bars are
> right though, it is unfair that some premises are exempt. I can quite
> understand why they were annoyed by the discrimination. Any chance of
> forcing the law makers to include casinos in the blanket ban? Makes far
> more sense than exempting the bars et al.
>
My mistake, I see that the casinos are not Indian casinos.
I think the bar owners are correct. If the well being of the casinos is
the reason for allowing smoking then the bars are being discriminated
against.
I suspect if the ban applied tot he casinos also business would stay the
same anyway.
The casinos must have given the politicians large sums to get the
exemptions.

--
******************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* http://bobcathoh.50megs.com/tinLC/ *
* david l kayp at earthlink dot net *
******************************************

Phew, I bet you're relieved. That's fantastic news, Fig. The bars are

right though, it is unfair that some premises are exempt. I can quite
understand why they were annoyed by the discrimination. Any chance of
forcing the law makers to include casinos in the blanket ban? Makes
far
more sense than exempting the bars et al.

--

Em
Can you still smoke in bars and public places in England? I was
surprised to hear that Colorado is wrestling with this issue since most
states have already adopted smoking bans
http://www.smokefreeworld.com/usa.shtml.

Alex

PS Glad Colorado is upholding the law.

DLU <David@justthe.net> wrote in
news:90t_g.14616$o71.12396@newsread3.news.pas.eart hlink.net:

> Emily wrote:
>
>> Figgertoes said...
>>
>>>We breathed a collective (smoke-free) sigh of relief when a judge
>>>here upheld the Colorado Clean Indoor Act which Socks worked so hard
>>>to get passed. Some bars united & filed suit claiming that since
>>>casinos weren't covered, the law was unfair, discretionary. The
>>>ruling came a couple of days ago & I am very relieved & happy.
>>>
>>>http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4524907
>>>
>>
>> Phew, I bet you're relieved. That's fantastic news, Fig. The bars
>> are right though, it is unfair that some premises are exempt. I can
>> quite understand why they were annoyed by the discrimination. Any
>> chance of forcing the law makers to include casinos in the blanket
>> ban? Makes far more sense than exempting the bars et al.
>>
> My mistake, I see that the casinos are not Indian casinos.
> I think the bar owners are correct. If the well being of the casinos
> is the reason for allowing smoking then the bars are being
> discriminated against.
> I suspect if the ban applied tot he casinos also business would stay
> the same anyway.
> The casinos must have given the politicians large sums to get the
> exemptions.
>
There are Indian casinos, but the only one I know of in Colorado is in
Ignacio near Durango, way West & pretty isolated. And, like you say, the
State has no jursidiction. We are working hard to get the casinos
included. It was the big sticking point in getting the legislation
passed at all, so we compromised . More a fear of reducing the State's
tax revenue than anything. As tax revenues increase in the bar/restaurant
sector after the law, the legialature may be more willing to include the
casinos. The big issue, the one we're pushing, is worker safety. not
putting workers at risk.

Here's why it's not so unfair. The casinos are only within very specific
boundaries in 3 mountain towns - 2 really, as Central City/Blackhawk run
right into each other. Those are by far the closest to Denver but still
an hour or more away for most & a mountain drive. Will people say to heck
with the local bar -, I'm going to drive an hour up & an hour back so I
can smoke? We haven't heard complaints from any bars near those towns
that.feel discriminated against. There probably aren't any/many. And in
the gambling towns, every bar IS a casino. The law against favoritism is
interpreted to apply to like businesses. You can't grant a variance on
any code ot one bar, restaurant, laundromat to create a competitive
advantage with the same sort of business. If casinos were all over the
place, the arguments that they have a competitive edge would be more
compelling.

There are a few smoking bars under the law, but they are grandfathered in
& there can be no more new ones. They have to have derrived at least 5%
(I think) of their revenue from tobacco sales prior to 12/31/05 & there's
another requirement about humidor rentals. Had there been some way to
legally define pool hall type places & allow smoking in those, there
would have been some support for that, including mine. Everyone knows
what those places are when they see one, but no one could come up with a
legally defining description.

I get several emails a week from the group working to get casinos
included. They have support from casino workers, patrons & would-be
patrons. They are tireless & it will happen.

Fig

usenetgirl@gmail.com wrote in news:1161473598.826497.230550
@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:

> http://www.smokefreeworld.com/usa.shtml

Thanks for this link. Note that many of the states listed have no ban but
clicking on the state name gets you a list of non-smoking venues.

Colorado is not among the very first, not ground-breaking at all.

For years, Socks maintained a website for Colorado GASP listing smoke free
restaurants by location/cuisine. It got to be a very long list. We found
our favorite Thai restaurant that way. He wanted to show off so I said,
OK, Littleton Vietnamese (expecting none) & there were many. So OK
Littleton Thai & there were 4. So we got dressed & headed out to
investigate. The owners soon knew him by name. When I'd go in alone
meeting a friend, the owner would say Socks wasn't there yet (he'd usually
be waiting at the bar with a Saki!) LOL

Fig

Figgertoes wrote:

> For years, Socks maintained a website for Colorado GASP listing smoke free
> restaurants by location/cuisine. It got to be a very long list. We found
> our favorite Thai restaurant that way. He wanted to show off so I said,
> OK, Littleton Vietnamese (expecting none) & there were many. So OK
> Littleton Thai & there were 4. So we got dressed & headed out to
> investigate. The owners soon knew him by name. When I'd go in alone
> meeting a friend, the owner would say Socks wasn't there yet (he'd usually
> be waiting at the bar with a Saki!) LOL
>
Gloriosky, Fig, which Littleton Thai do you recommend? Not the one in the
converted Denny's on Littleton Blvd (wild Ginger maybe?) near the school
offices by any chance? I haven't tried any Thai out there and I am
particular about my Thai. (don't like my Num Tok gray) I am going to be out
in L'ton from the 14th through the 20th. Melinda is going out of town from
the 15th through the 17th so she needed me to dogsit the terrorist (to the
guys with the three letter agency reading everyone's email, that's a Cairn
Terrorist er Terrier with neurotic destructive tendencies). So I am going
to explore a little more than normal. By the way, the Japanese restaurant
in the little house with the flags just down the street was really nice.
Also a surprising Japanese restaurant off Arapahoe at maybe Dayton(?)on the
wrong side of 25. Run by a young Mexican man, go figure, surprisingly good
sushi for being so far from water.

I think you misunderstood my post, I assumed since my small world that
smoking was banned that it was banned everywhere in the US. This bill
was very needed. Also I was surprised on my visits to Canada and
England the amount of public smoking.

The casinos is the Northeast have smoking and none smoking sections.
Now the non smoking sections are larger. I would help the employers
would put smoking employees in the smoking sections.

You are doing a great publis service.

Alex

--

BetsyB

"DLU" <David@justthe.net> wrote in message
news:eVs_g.10504$Lv3.8361@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net...
> Emily wrote:
>
>> Figgertoes said...
>>
>>>We breathed a collective (smoke-free) sigh of relief when a judge here
>>>upheld the Colorado Clean Indoor Act which Socks worked so hard to get
>>>passed. Some bars united & filed suit claiming that since casinos
>>>weren't covered, the law was unfair, discretionary. The ruling came a
>>>couple of days ago & I am very relieved & happy.
>>>
>>>http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4524907
>>>
>>
>> Phew, I bet you're relieved. That's fantastic news, Fig. The bars are
>> right though, it is unfair that some premises are exempt. I can quite
>> understand why they were annoyed by the discrimination. Any chance of
>> forcing the law makers to include casinos in the blanket ban? Makes far
>> more sense than exempting the bars et al.
>>
> The casinos are on Indian lands and the state does not have jurisdiction.
>
> --
> ******************************************
> * This is the Spammish Inquisition *
> * Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
> * http://bobcathoh.50megs.com/tinLC/ *
> * david l kayp at earthlink dot net *
> ******************************************

Not in Atlantic City, NJ? No Indian reservations there but they can have
smoking there. No justice there at all.

Betsy

"Chris Ness" <mness215@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ZYCdnYA8OJpg56bYnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Gl, that's a Cairn
> Terrorist er Terrier with neurotic destructive tendencies).
>

Hey, I had a couple of Cairn Terrors a while back too. They weren't
destructive, just fine mom-manipulators. Wonderful critters & I miss them
very much; I have a ton of fond memories that can be counted on to make me
smile.
bj

Chris Ness <mness215@comcast.net> wrote in
news:ZYCdnYA8OJpg56bYnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@comcast.com:

> Figgertoes wrote:
>
>> For years, Socks maintained a website for Colorado GASP listing smoke
>> free restaurants by location/cuisine. It got to be a very long list.
>> We found our favorite Thai restaurant that way. He wanted to show
>> off so I said, OK, Littleton Vietnamese (expecting none) & there were
>> many. So OK Littleton Thai & there were 4. So we got dressed &
>> headed out to investigate. The owners soon knew him by name. When
>> I'd go in alone meeting a friend, the owner would say Socks wasn't
>> there yet (he'd usually be waiting at the bar with a Saki!) LOL
>>
> Gloriosky, Fig, which Littleton Thai do you recommend? Not the one in
> the converted Denny's on Littleton Blvd (wild Ginger maybe?) near the
> school offices by any chance? I haven't tried any Thai out there and I
> am particular about my Thai. (don't like my Num Tok gray) I am going
> to be out in L'ton from the 14th through the 20th. Melinda is going
> out of town from the 15th through the 17th so she needed me to dogsit
> the terrorist (to the guys with the three letter agency reading
> everyone's email, that's a Cairn Terrorist er Terrier with neurotic
> destructive tendencies). So I am going to explore a little more than
> normal. By the way, the Japanese restaurant in the little house with
> the flags just down the street was really nice. Also a surprising
> Japanese restaurant off Arapahoe at maybe Dayton(?)on the wrong side
> of 25. Run by a young Mexican man, go figure, surprisingly good sushi
> for being so far from water.
>
>
Yo, Chris,

I wrote a lengthy reataurant review of the general area, but it didn't
seem to post. I remember it asked if I wanted to save changes which I
thought odd.

Bottom line is - yes, Wild Ginger. You no like? I usually order the
same thing - tom ka gai soup & panang curry, but they do some dishes for
their Thai customers that I've also tried - just say surprise me! Look
at Domo for Japanese - very unusual, on Osage, in bizarre location. Best
in summer because of beautiful garden, but they usually have a martial
arts class going on in back & a museum. I walk around with cold saki
overflowing into a saucer & all too soon, they come fetch me to say meal
is ready. I think we used to go to same sushi place - North side of
Arapahoe Rd., hole in wall next to liquor store, but no Mexicans at the
time (long time ago). Fish fly frequently into Denver.

Also good Italian at Venice - Holly & Orchard in Greenwood Village.

I was asking if you meant November.

I would be delighted to meet you or you & Melinda at any of these places.
Would be great to meet you!

I'll be deep in the heart of TX 10/26-11/5.

Fig

Figgertoes wrote:

> Bottom line is - yes, Wild Ginger. You no like?
Hadn't tried it yet. When I'm out there at dinner time, Melinda has just
returned to her place up by the Coors Amphitheatre and doesn't want to
drive back downtown again.

> I usually order the
> same thing -
Num tok ?
> tom ka gai soup & panang curry,
Teasing, I knew you meant this same thing. I like both Panang and Masaman
(truthfully not much difference between them - very subtle). And my sense
of taste is not that subtle any more. Truth is Thai went from one lunch and
one dinner per week to one dinner per three months since the radiation.
> but they do some dishes for
> their Thai customers that I've also tried - just say surprise me! Look
> at Domo for Japanese - very unusual, on Osage, in bizarre location. Best
> in summer because of beautiful garden, but they usually have a martial
> arts class going on in back & a museum. I walk around with cold saki
> overflowing into a saucer & all too soon, they come fetch me to say meal
> is ready. I think we used to go to same sushi place - North side of
> Arapahoe Rd., hole in wall next to liquor store, but no Mexicans at the
> time (long time ago). Fish fly frequently into Denver.

I'm at the airport often, but I've never seen any. there was this guy that
looked like a frog...

> Also good Italian at Venice - Holly & Orchard in Greenwood Village.
>
> I was asking if you meant November.
>
> I would be delighted to meet you or you & Melinda at any of these places.
> Would be great to meet you!
Yes, November.
> I'll be deep in the heart of TX 10/26-11/5.
>
> Fig

usenetgirl@gmail.com wrote:

> I think you misunderstood my post, I assumed since my small world that
> smoking was banned that it was banned everywhere in the US. This bill
> was very needed. Also I was surprised on my visits to Canada and
> England the amount of public smoking.
>
I am a militant non-smoker, but my Libertarian impulses say the law that
bans smoking ought to be the law of economics. But what I never understood
was that:
Since there really are more of us that don't smoke, and even more a majority
when you count our children;
And since the absence of smoke in the air doesn't affect smokers like the
addition of smoke affects non-smokers:
Why so many restaurants didn't figure it out for themselves and not allow
smoking (or loud perfumes) where the smell would overpower the taste of the
food they prepare?

Oh, well, serves them right. I just don't like giviing one more iota of
power to politicians and bureaucrats.

Chris Ness <mness215@comcast.net> wrote in
news:8KSdnYIp2sdrd6bYnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@comcast.com:

> Figgertoes wrote:
>
>> I usually order the
>> same thing -
> Num tok ?
>> tom ka gai soup & panang curry,
> Teasing, I knew you meant this same thing. I like both Panang and
> Masaman (truthfully not much difference between them - very subtle).
> And my sense of taste is not that subtle any more. Truth is Thai went
> from one lunch and one dinner per week to one dinner per three months
> since the radiation.

You give me far too much credit. I don't know they're the same thing. The
soup is not gravy-like at all, rather thin. Is my leg being tugged at?

Fig

Chris Ness <mness215@comcast.net> wrote in
news:vamdnfdguZ7Gc6bYnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@comcast.com:

> usenetgirl@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I think you misunderstood my post, I assumed since my small world
>> that smoking was banned that it was banned everywhere in the US. This
>> bill was very needed. Also I was surprised on my visits to Canada and
>> England the amount of public smoking.
>>
> I am a militant non-smoker, but my Libertarian impulses say the law
> that bans smoking ought to be the law of economics. But what I never
> understood was that:
> Since there really are more of us that don't smoke, and even more a
> majority when you count our children;
> And since the absence of smoke in the air doesn't affect smokers like
> the addition of smoke affects non-smokers:
> Why so many restaurants didn't figure it out for themselves and not
> allow smoking (or loud perfumes) where the smell would overpower the
> taste of the food they prepare?
>
> Oh, well, serves them right. I just don't like giviing one more iota
> of power to politicians and bureaucrats.
>

Ever notice sometimes things that seem to work in theory don't in actual
practice?

The Colorado Restaurant Assn. was a strong proponent of statewide non-
smoking. You know yourself the crazy-quilt of jursidictions around here.
Each had its own rules & many restaurants (but fewer stand-alone bars - &
distinguish between a bar that sells food & a restaurant with a bar)
went non-smoking of their own accord. Others had non-smoking nights.
Some wanted to go non-smoking but were wimps, fearing loss of business to
smoking places. Most of us were hazy about exctly which jurisdiction many
restaurants were even in. The GASP list made it easier to find non-
smoking. What many, including the restaurant association, wanted was a
level playing field & to be able to tell customers, "it's the law."
Maybe not something to make a Libertarian smile, but that's what we heard
over & over, informally & in testamony. So did the Restaurant
Association; hence their position.

Think of it in terms of providing a smoke-free workplace for all workers.
Then, yes, I know, the casinos. Sometimes thinking can give you a
headache, but at least in's not smoke-induced :-)

Fig

Chris Ness wrote:

> usenetgirl@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>>I think you misunderstood my post, I assumed since my small world that
>>smoking was banned that it was banned everywhere in the US. This bill
>>was very needed. Also I was surprised on my visits to Canada and
>>England the amount of public smoking.
>>
>
> I am a militant non-smoker, but my Libertarian impulses say the law that
> bans smoking ought to be the law of economics. But what I never understood
> was that:
> Since there really are more of us that don't smoke, and even more a majority
> when you count our children;
> And since the absence of smoke in the air doesn't affect smokers like the
> addition of smoke affects non-smokers:
> Why so many restaurants didn't figure it out for themselves and not allow
> smoking (or loud perfumes) where the smell would overpower the taste of the
> food they prepare?
>
> Oh, well, serves them right. I just don't like giviing one more iota of
> power to politicians and bureaucrats.

Well from someone who has has examined the Libertarian philosophy since
the late 1950s, A true Libertarian would not want a non smoking law.
However, what the Libertarian would want is the right to sue anyone
who's smoke particles invaded his personal air space. Furthermore,
anyone who smokes should not have any access to any public funded
medical treatment for smoking related disease. You smoke, you pay for
it. If I inhale one iota of your tobacco smoke, you owe me for
polluting my air. Now that is the true Libertarian position.

Since the Libertarian ideals would be almost impossible to enact, we
have to use the system of representative Republic that we do have.
smoking hurts more than just the user. We pay for medical treatment,
lost productivity, and for the damage to our own health even though we
do not smoke. Socks was a classic example of this.
Not only did he lose his life, his wife lost the love of her life, and
we as a nation lost someone who did make a difference in our lives
through his environmental work.

Smokers should be placed in a large box with any other smokers and the
air completely filtered before it is allowed back into the atmosphere.
Also, smokers should have to shower in a clean room before they are
allowed to circulate in public. Even their smell is offensive to a non
smoker, of which we are the majority.

--
******************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* http://bobcathoh.50megs.com/tinLC/ *
* david l kayp at earthlink dot net *
******************************************

Figgertoes wrote:
>Others had non-smoking nights.

Place would still stink.

> Some wanted to go non-smoking but were wimps, fearing loss of business to
> smoking places.

But they never feared the loss of our business. That's what I meant. There
are more of us non-smokers, but they never feared the loss of our business.
The loss of the smoker's business they feared, but us non-smokers?
What am I? Chopped liver?
And I would get up and leave a place that smelled bad and never come back. A
f2$%ing smoker they would miss but not me and mine? Still incenses me. A
smoker can't put off his vice until after dinner and I am supposed to put
off a breath of breathable air? He should be able to do without smoke
longer than I can do without breathable air.

Chris Ness wrote:
> Why so many restaurants didn't figure it out for themselves and not allow
> smoking (or loud perfumes) where the smell would overpower the taste of the
> food they prepare?

My experience has been overwhelmingly that even in places where the smoking
section was three times as large as non-smoking, it was a long wait for
smoking seating and immediate accommodation for non-smoking seating. Only
rarely has it been otherwise where I've been.

--
"...by March 2000, President Clinton informed Congress he could no longer
certify that 'North Korea is not seeking to develop or acquire the capability
to enrich uranium.'"
<http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/northkorea/nuclear.html>

clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in
news:sstt04-du3.ln1@remote.clifto.com:

> Chris Ness wrote:
>> Why so many restaurants didn't figure it out for themselves and not
>> allow smoking (or loud perfumes) where the smell would overpower the
>> taste of the food they prepare?
>
> My experience has been overwhelmingly that even in places where the
> smoking section was three times as large as non-smoking, it was a long
> wait for smoking seating and immediate accommodation for non-smoking
> seating. Only rarely has it been otherwise where I've been.
>
Not in Littleton, CO where Socks drafted the ballot initiative. It was
illegal for a person to have to wait longer for a non-smoking table than
for a smoking one. Written into the law :-) There was always the option
of going totally smoke-free & avoiding the problem :-) Now happily moot,
of course.

Fig

Figgertoes wrote:
> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Chris Ness wrote:
>>> Why so many restaurants didn't figure it out for themselves and not
>>> allow smoking (or loud perfumes) where the smell would overpower the
>>> taste of the food they prepare?
>>
>> My experience has been overwhelmingly that even in places where the
>> smoking section was three times as large as non-smoking, it was a long
>> wait for smoking seating and immediate accommodation for non-smoking
>> seating. Only rarely has it been otherwise where I've been.
>>
> Not in Littleton, CO where Socks drafted the ballot initiative. It was
> illegal for a person to have to wait longer for a non-smoking table than
> for a smoking one. Written into the law :-)

But... but... it was the non-smoking section you could get right away.

--
"...by March 2000, President Clinton informed Congress he could no longer
certify that 'North Korea is not seeking to develop or acquire the capability
to enrich uranium.'"
<http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/northkorea/nuclear.html>

clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in
news18214-hnv.ln1@remote.clifto.com:

> Figgertoes wrote:
>> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Chris Ness wrote:
>>>> Why so many restaurants didn't figure it out for themselves and not
>>>> allow smoking (or loud perfumes) where the smell would overpower
>>>> the taste of the food they prepare?
>>>
>>> My experience has been overwhelmingly that even in places where the
>>> smoking section was three times as large as non-smoking, it was a
>>> long wait for smoking seating and immediate accommodation for
>>> non-smoking seating. Only rarely has it been otherwise where I've
>>> been.
>>>
>> Not in Littleton, CO where Socks drafted the ballot initiative. It
>> was illegal for a person to have to wait longer for a non-smoking
>> table than for a smoking one. Written into the law :-)
>
> But... but... it was the non-smoking section you could get right away.
>

But...but...not if someone was waiting for non!

Fig

Figgertoes wrote:
> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Figgertoes wrote:
>>> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Chris Ness wrote:
>>>>> Why so many restaurants didn't figure it out for themselves and not
>>>>> allow smoking (or loud perfumes) where the smell would overpower
>>>>> the taste of the food they prepare?
>>>>
>>>> My experience has been overwhelmingly that even in places where the
>>>> smoking section was three times as large as non-smoking, it was a
>>>> long wait for smoking seating and immediate accommodation for
>>>> non-smoking seating. Only rarely has it been otherwise where I've
>>>> been.
>>>>
>>> Not in Littleton, CO where Socks drafted the ballot initiative. It
>>> was illegal for a person to have to wait longer for a non-smoking
>>> table than for a smoking one. Written into the law :-)
>>
>> But... but... it was the non-smoking section you could get right away.
>
> But...but...not if someone was waiting for non!

That's what I was saying; there was never a wait for non-smoking in most
of the restaurants I went to, even in cases where only one-fourth of the
seating was for non-smokers.

I can only remember one time when the wait for a non-smoking area was
longer than the wait for a smoking area.

--
"...by March 2000, President Clinton informed Congress he could no longer
certify that 'North Korea is not seeking to develop or acquire the capability
to enrich uranium.'"
<http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/northkorea/nuclear.html>

Chris Ness wrote:
> Figgertoes wrote:
>
> > Bottom line is - yes, Wild Ginger. You no like?
> Hadn't tried it yet. When I'm out there at dinner time, Melinda has just
> returned to her place up by the Coors Amphitheatre and doesn't want to
> drive back downtown again.

IMO, Wild Ginger is the best Thai in town. Try their pad thai woon
sen. For Japanese, the place on Osage is interesting, and different.
I've eaten at the place off E. Arapahoe many times, but too many times
had unfortunate GI results. Next door, or nearly, there's an
interesting Middle Eastern restaurant, with a different take on
baklava. There's a better, cleaner sushi place in Golden, off Colfax
west of I-70. It's called Sush Okoura, or something like that. The
fish is very fresh, the rice nice, and the nori generally good.

> > I usually order the
> > same thing -
> Num tok ?
> > tom ka gai soup & panang curry,
> Teasing, I knew you meant this same thing. I like both Panang and Masaman
> (truthfully not much difference between them - very subtle). And my sense
> of taste is not that subtle any more. Truth is Thai went from one lunch and
> one dinner per week to one dinner per three months since the radiation.
> > but they do some dishes for
> > their Thai customers that I've also tried - just say surprise me! Look
> > at Domo for Japanese - very unusual, on Osage, in bizarre location.

It's walking distance from the Auraria Campus, home to UCD, CCD, and
Metro State, the second largest school in CO. Just take Osage a block
or so South of Colfax, the longest main street in the U.S.

>> Best
> > in summer because of beautiful garden, but they usually have a martial
> > arts class going on in back & a museum. I walk around with cold saki
> > overflowing into a saucer & all too soon, they come fetch me to say meal
> > is ready. I think we used to go to same sushi place - North side of
> > Arapahoe Rd., hole in wall next to liquor store, but no Mexicans at the
> > time (long time ago). Fish fly frequently into Denver.
>
> I'm at the airport often, but I've never seen any. there was this guy that
> looked like a frog...
>
> > Also good Italian at Venice - Holly & Orchard in Greenwood Village.

Haven't tried that one. Thanks for the tip. I like Pasta's, across
from Southwest Plaza. It's a great family-run restaurant, with
wonderful food and attentive service. In the south part of town, I
like Luigi's Bent Noodle, just north of County Line (and C470) on the
East side of University. Here in the Golden area, there's Abruscis,
which is quite nice.

> > I was asking if you meant November.
> >
> > I would be delighted to meet you or you & Melinda at any of these places.
> > Would be great to meet you!
> Yes, November.
> > I'll be deep in the heart of TX 10/26-11/5.
> >
> > Fig

While in the Denver area, you may be interested in trying The Fort.
It's on the West side, near Morrison West of C470. It features various
game dishes, and an ambiance of the Old West. Not your usual chain
restaurant.

---
CSM

csm7532@hotmail.com wrote:

>
> While in the Denver area, you may be interested in trying The Fort.
> It's on the West side, near Morrison West of C470. It features various
> game dishes, and an ambiance of the Old West. Not your usual chain
> restaurant.
>

Is that the abobe buildings near RedRocks?

On Oct 23, 12:01 am, Figgertoes <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> clifto <cli...@gmail.com> wrote innews:sstt04-du3.ln1@remote.clifto.com:
>
> > Chris Ness wrote:
> >> >
> > My experience has been overwhelmingly that even in places where the
> > smoking section was three times as large as non-smoking, it was a long
> > wait for smoking seating and immediate accommodation for non-smoking
> > seating. Only rarely has it been otherwise where I've been.

Sorry, I misread this. I don't think this has ever been the case
anywhere I've gone. It's always quicker/immediate seating available in
smoking & a long wait for non, regardless of the size of non. Several
times the disparity in wait times was so extreme, I just left & went
somewhere else. Funny what you say, because to sit in non, all a
smoker would need to do is refrain for as long as meal took. I wonder
if that varied in different parts of the country. CO & TX always wait
for non if a wait at all.

Fig

Chris Ness wrote:
> csm7532@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> > While in the Denver area, you may be interested in trying The Fort.
> > It's on the West side, near Morrison West of C470. It features various
> > game dishes, and an ambiance of the Old West. Not your usual chain
> > restaurant.
> >
>
> Is that the abobe buildings near RedRocks?

That's them. Great food, great service, prices to match. We went
there to celebrate my clean PET/CAT. If you want things like
rattlesnake, bison, elk, etc., they're the best around IMO. I should
admit, though, that I haven't yet eaten at 10th & Osage (Buckhorn
Exchange?).

---
CSM

csm7532@hotmail.com wrote in
news:1161970477.718355.241730@i42g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:

>
> Chris Ness wrote:
>> Figgertoes wrote:
>>
>> > Look at Domo for Japanese - very unusual, on Osage, in bizarre
>> > location.
>
> It's walking distance from the Auraria Campus, home to UCD, CCD, and
> Metro State, the second largest school in CO. Just take Osage a block
> or so South of Colfax, the longest main street in the U.S.
>
And across from Buckhorn Exchange & the housing projects if you ride the
light rail (which I do) & walk from 10th & Osage Station. The walk takes
you through some lonely industrial parts - safe enough in summer with a
male, but I think next time, I'll take my car. Yes, close to Auraria, but
rather spendy - oooh, I just googled & saw lunch menu - now there's an
idea! Wonder if they get Auraria crowd at lunch.

Sushi Den is great but crowded. We used to get a great lunch at Sushi
Heights on Colfax, but it changed ownership & I haven't been in years. So
dunno. I now work in a funky part of downtown & it's time-consuming to get
anywhere. When I drive, it's faster to hop into car & drive to one of
these places than to walk to mall.

You seem to get around to a lot of different parts & we seem to like the
same foods/places. When I go out, I generally want something I can't cook
myself or get at Costco.

Fig

Figgertoes wrote:
> csm7532@hotmail.com wrote in
> news:1161970477.718355.241730@i42g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:
>
> >
> > Chris Ness wrote:
> >> Figgertoes wrote:
> >>
> >> > Look at Domo for Japanese - very unusual, on Osage, in bizarre
> >> > location.
> >
> > It's walking distance from the Auraria Campus, home to UCD, CCD, and
> > Metro State, the second largest school in CO. Just take Osage a block
> > or so South of Colfax, the longest main street in the U.S.
> >
> And across from Buckhorn Exchange & the housing projects if you ride the
> light rail (which I do) & walk from 10th & Osage Station.

I've ridden the light rail enough to know BE, but didn't realize it was
so close to Domo. I guess that makes sense, it being South of Colfax.
We're planning to have our first BE supper after I'm through the chemo
and get a clean scan & scope.

> The walk takes
> you through some lonely industrial parts - safe enough in summer with a
> male, but I think next time, I'll take my car. Yes, close to Auraria, but
> rather spendy - oooh, I just googled & saw lunch menu - now there's an
> idea! Wonder if they get Auraria crowd at lunch.

I find most Japanese restaurants a bit spendy, but I like the treat.
Lunch is a great idea, with lower cost. I don't think Domo gets much
Auraria business, despite the proximity. Most students (and part-time
faculty) don't have the money. Also, there are too many options either
on campus or just off.

> Sushi Den is great but crowded. We used to get a great lunch at Sushi
> Heights on Colfax, but it changed ownership & I haven't been in years. So
> dunno. I now work in a funky part of downtown & it's time-consuming to get
> anywhere. When I drive, it's faster to hop into car & drive to one of
> these places than to walk to mall.
>
> You seem to get around to a lot of different parts & we seem to like the
> same foods/places. When I go out, I generally want something I can't cook
> myself or get at Costco.
>
> Fig

Same here. We don't like to go out and get something we could easily
get at home---my wife and I are both happy cooking. We like to get
something that would be too much trouble to do at home for just the
three of us.
Costco. We recently moved, and now have a Costco near us. We used to
be Sams customers, but switched with the move. I get my meds at
Costco, as well as the groceries, an iPod I use during chemo, and
various other goodies. We may even get new floors there, as they have
inexpensive (ap. $2/sq. ft) solid bamboo. I found that Emend is much
cheaper there than at most pharmacies, though we pay the same copay.
Those three pills are supposedly over $700 at most places, and more
like $400 at Costco. My Lisinopril is something like $7 there---less
than the copay---whereas it was over the copay elsewhere. We also like
the fruit at Costco, and I'm trying to eat more of that lately, less
red meat. With the nasty taste from Oxaliplatin being a near 24/7
thing now, I snack a lot to drive it away, and fresh fruit is a good
option for that. Not only that, but I found some good box wine (Black
Box) at the attached liquor store. Got to have red wine, as it has
those flavinoids that are supposed to be healthy. Yeah, that's the
reason.
If you want really good sushi, try Sushi Oukura. You take Colfax West
of 6th, and watch for a "Sushi" sign on the right. It's about a block
North of Colfax, not too easy to find and with poor parking, but well
worth it.

---
CSM

csm7532@hotmail.com wrote in
news:1163273607.067134.123730@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com:

>
> Figgertoes wrote:
>> csm7532@hotmail.com wrote in
>> news:1161970477.718355.241730@i42g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:
>>
>> >
>> > Chris Ness wrote:
>> >> Figgertoes wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Look at Domo for Japanese - very unusual, on Osage, in bizarre
location
>.
>
> I've ridden the light rail enough to know BE, but didn't realize it
> was so close to Domo. I guess that makes sense, it being South of
> Colfax. We're planning to have our first BE supper after I'm through
> the chemo and get a clean scan & scope.
>
>> The walk takes
>> you through some lonely industrial parts - safe enough in summer with
>> a male, but I think next time, I'll take my car. Yes, close to
>> Auraria, but rather spendy - oooh, I just googled & saw lunch menu -
>> now there's an idea! Wonder if they get Auraria crowd at lunch.
>
> I find most Japanese restaurants a bit spendy, but I like the treat.
> Lunch is a great idea, with lower cost. I don't think Domo gets much
> Auraria business, despite the proximity. Most students (and part-time
> faculty) don't have the money. Also, there are too many options
> either on campus or just off.

I would guess so, but I wonder where Domo's lunch crowd would come from
then. It's pretty remote. I'm not into exotic meat, but I hear BE is
good as is The Fort which you already know. Socks loved it, but it was
lost on me. Certainly easy to get to! Socks & I liked Domo & we'd meet
at light rail station - me from work/he from home. Last time there, he
was dragging an oxygen tank & I was thinking - next time drive.
>
>
> Same here. We don't like to go out and get something we could easily
> get at home---my wife and I are both happy cooking. We like to get
> something that would be too much trouble to do at home for just the
> three of us.
> Costco. We recently moved, and now have a Costco near us. We used to
> be Sams customers, but switched with the move. I get my meds at
> Costco, as well as the groceries, an iPod I use during chemo, and
> various other goodies. We may even get new floors there, as they have
> inexpensive (ap. $2/sq. ft) solid bamboo. I found that Emend is much
> cheaper there than at most pharmacies, though we pay the same copay.
> Those three pills are supposedly over $700 at most places, and more
> like $400 at Costco. My Lisinopril is something like $7 there---less
> than the copay---whereas it was over the copay elsewhere. We also
> like the fruit at Costco, and I'm trying to eat more of that lately,
> less red meat. With the nasty taste from Oxaliplatin being a near
> 24/7 thing now, I snack a lot to drive it away, and fresh fruit is a
> good option for that. Not only that, but I found some good box wine
> (Black Box) at the attached liquor store. Got to have red wine, as it
> has those flavinoids that are supposed to be healthy. Yeah, that's
> the reason.
> If you want really good sushi, try Sushi Oukura. You take Colfax West
> of 6th, and watch for a "Sushi" sign on the right. It's about a block
> North of Colfax, not too easy to find and with poor parking, but well
> worth it.
>
> ---
> CSM
>
I keep posting about Costco drug prices which are available to all - as
is their liquor - without membership. 11/06 Consumer Reports says so
too. My usual Costco has no liquor, but one to the West of me does.

I've heard good things about the bamboo. Wish it had been popular before
I bought my oak.

I have tickets to Magic Flute tonight, so best get derriere in gear.

Here's to more flavinoids!
Fig

Figgertoes wrote:
> csm7532@hotmail.com wrote in
> news:1163273607.067134.123730@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com:
<snip>
> > I don't think Domo gets much
> > Auraria business, despite the proximity. Most students (and part-time
> > faculty) don't have the money. Also, there are too many options
> > either on campus or just off.
>
> I would guess so, but I wonder where Domo's lunch crowd would come from
> then. It's pretty remote.

Pretty close to Colfax, and not far from town---I'd say it's a little
hard to find, but not remote. I'd guess that it's mainly downtown
workers taking a short hop to eat there, but I don't really know.

<snip>
> I keep posting about Costco drug prices which are available to all - as
> is their liquor - without membership. 11/06 Consumer Reports says so
> too. My usual Costco has no liquor, but one to the West of me does.

I didn't realize you could get drugs there without a card---they always
ask me for mine. I guess it's like the eye care centers in Sams, where
they ask for the card but don't require it. The booze shop doesn't
even ask.
<snip>

---
CSM