Re: December 2006 monthly follow up: "Is melanoma simply a Vitamin D deficiency cancer?"

Hi Alan!

You raised some excellent questions: Is the problem more complicated?
Will it require even more advances in technology, further data
collection, and years more education?

This month I ask you to seriously consider whether the problem has
already been solved. In last month's follow up--to which, curiously,
there was no response--I recalled an apparently neglected 1981 study
done by a small group of Stanford researchers who added Vitamin D3 to a
test tube with human melanoma cells and noticed that it inhibited their
growth. Well, I don't see any reason why Vitamin D shouldn't stop the
growth of melanoma cells in the living body.

Now Vitamin D is cheap, easily administered, and has no side effects--a
natural magic bullet--so why weren't human trials ever attempted?
Indeed, will another 25 years pass before Vitamin D3 is tested on
melanoma patients? I again ask, could it actually be our inability to
think outside the box that is preventing us from finally solving the
melanoma mystery?

James Semmel
Albuquerque, New Mexico



Alan Meyer wrote:
> "James Semmel" <feetback@shoebusters.com> wrote in message
> news:1165332856.027174.12440@l12g2000cwl.googlegro ups.com...
> > TO: All melanoma researchers, doctors, and patients.
> >
> > Melanoma incidence has been increasing right before our very eyes,
> > alarmingly affecting much younger ages than in the past, and yet we
> > still do not know what is causing it. Why not?
> >
> > It couldn't be from a lack of technology, as microscopes and surgical
> > techniques have been around for well over a century. Nor could it be
> > from a lack of data, as libraries are filled beyond capacity with
> > numerous volumes of wide-ranging studies. And it couldn't even be a
> > lack of education, as many researchers now sport both MD and PhD
> > degrees. Indeed, could it actually be our inability to think outside
> > the box that is preventing us from finally solving the melanoma
> > mystery?
>
> James,
>
> I challenge you to read any serious textbook on cancer. I don't
> mean some popular book written for patients, but a book written
> for doctors and medical school students.
>
> You will find out in your first couple of hours of reading that the
> problem is orders of magnitude more complicated than you
> might think it is. The availability of "Microscopes and surgical
> techniques", and "libraries filled beyond capacity" do not give
> us the solution to the problem.
>
> You can think outside the box all you want to, but until you've
> read the libraries full of books, you won't have the slightest
> clue even about what cancer is, much less how to cure it.
> You might actually have better luck building a moon rocket
> in your back yard.
>
> Regards,
>
> Alan

Hi J!

What do you think of my hypothesis that melanoma is a Vitamin D
deficiency cancer?

Vitamin D has been getting a lot of media attention in recent years as
being beneficial for several cancers except for one... melanoma. Is it
possible that we're overlooking something?

Thanks,
james



J wrote:
> James Semmel wrote:
>
> > Hi Alan!
> >
> > <snipped>
> > > I challenge you to read any serious textbook on cancer. I don't
> > > mean some popular book written for patients, but a book written
> > > for doctors and medical school students.
> > >
> > > You will find out in your first couple of hours of reading that the
> > > problem is orders of magnitude more complicated than you
> > > might think it is. The availability of "Microscopes and surgical
> > > techniques", and "libraries filled beyond capacity" do not give
> > > us the solution to the problem.
> > >
> > > You can think outside the box all you want to, but until you've
> > > read the libraries full of books, you won't have the slightest
> > > clue even about what cancer is, much less how to cure it.
> > > You might actually have better luck building a moon rocket
> > > in your back yard.
> > >
>
> James can't read (reading and comprehension problem) and is so desperate for
> attention, he crossposted to 5 newsgroups.
> J
> followups set to alt.support.cancer.prostate
> cp'd to sci.med.diseases.cancer

On 11 Dec 2006 07:26:33 -0800, "James Semmel"
<feetback@shoebusters.com> wrote:

>Vitamin D has been getting a lot of media attention in recent years as
>being beneficial for several cancers except for one... melanoma. Is it
>possible that we're overlooking something?
>
In general, the exposure to the sunlight's UVB-radiation is slightly
positively associated with melanoma risk. However, the active form of
vitamin D has been shown to inhibit growth of many malignant melanoma
cell lines in the laboratory:

Seifert M, Rech M, Meineke V, Tilgen W, Reichrath J.
Differential biological effects of 1,25-dihydroxyVitamin D3 on
melanoma cell lines in vitro.
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2004 May;89-90(1-5):375-9.
PMID: 15225804 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlu s&list_uids=15225804>

Even if the sunlight increases melanoma risks slightly, it may reduce
the risk of many other cancers so that if you do your math, you are
better off with getting regularly brief sunlight exposures on the
large enough skin area. The important thing is to avoid sunburns. You
only need 20 minutes of exposure to get the maximum daily amount of
vitamin D, so there is no point in exceeding 20 minutes. After that
you can put on protective clothing and/or apply suncscreen. Some
orally taken natural antioxidants and COX-2 inhibitors may also be
useful.

The worst type of exposure is probably intemittent exposure, when you
get sunlight exposure irregularly and perhaps too long time on each
exposure. That way you may not get enough vitamin D in the long run,
but you may burn your skin. The regular exposure, for example
occupational exposure, is probably better, especially, if you can
avoid longer than 20 minute exposures and sunburns. According to some
studies this kind of exposure may even reduce melanoma risk.

Of course, if you want to avoid sun, vitamin D can always be taken as
a supplement.

Below some references related to the above text:

Ness AR, Frankel SJ, Gunnell DJ, Smith GD.
Are we really dying for a tan?
BMJ. 1999 Jul 10;319(7202):114-6.
PMID: 10398641 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/319/7202/114>

"The main rationale for the health message - reduce exposure to
sunlight, and, in particular, avoid sunburn - has been the belief
that exposure contributes to the increasing incidence of malignant
melanoma.2 However, the exact nature of the association between
malignant melanoma and exposure to sunlight has yet to be
determined.7 A recent systematic review of case-control studies
confirmed that intermittent sun exposure (odds ratio 1.71; 95%
confidence interval 1.54 to 1.90) and sunburn at all ages (1.91;
1.69 to 2.17) were associated with an increased risk of melanoma.
It also showed, however, that people exposed to sun through their
work were at a reduced risk (0.86; 0.76 to 0.96).8 Even if
reducing exposure to sunlight reduces the incidence of melanoma,
its effect on overall mortality will be slight, as the number of
deaths postponed will be small. In 1995, the deaths of 697 men and
698 women in England and Wales were attributed to malignant
melanoma.9 Even the most forceful campaign could be expected to
prevent only a few of these deaths. There may also be effective
options for reducing mortality from melanoma that do not require
reducing exposure to sunlight - for example, by increasing
awareness of the diagnosis and access to treatment."

Elwood JM, Jopson J.
Melanoma and sun exposure: an overview of published studies.
Int J Cancer. 1997 Oct 9;73(2):198-203. Review.
PMID: 9335442 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=933544 2&dopt=Abstract>

"To assess the association between the incidence of cutaneous
melanoma; intermittent, occupational and total sun exposure;
and history of sunburn at different ages, we conducted a
systematic review using results of all published case-control
studies which have assessed incident melanoma, sun exposure and
sunburn. Twenty-nine studies contributed data on sun exposure
and 21 on sunburn. Overall, there was a significant positive
association (odds ratio [OR] = 1.71) for intermittent exposure,
a significantly reduced risk for heavy occupational exposure
(OR = 0.86) and a small, marginally significant excess risk for
total exposure (OR = 1.18). There was a significantly increased
risk with sunburn at all ages or in adult life (OR = 1.91) and
similarly elevated relative risks for sunburn in adolescence
(OR = 1.73) and in childhood (OR = 1.95). There was significant
heterogeneity with all of these estimates except that of all
ages or adult sunburn. These results show the specificity of
the positive association between melanoma risk and intermittent
sun exposure, in contrast to a reduced risk with high levels of
occupational exposure. The association with sunburn also is
likely to reflect intermittent exposure; the results do not
suggest any strong relationship to age at sunburn. These
associations are similar to those reported for basal cell skin
cancer but different from those reported for squamous cell
cancer. The mechanisms by which intermittent exposure increases
risk, while other patterns of exposure do not, remain to be
elucidated."

Garland FC, White MR, Garland CF, Shaw E, Gorham ED.
Occupational sunlight exposure and melanoma in the U.S. Navy.
Arch Environ Health. 1990 Sep-Oct;45(5):261-7.
PMID: 2256710 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlu s&list_uids=2256710>


Boscoe FP, Schymura MJ.
Solar ultraviolet-B exposure and cancer incidence and mortality in the
United States, 1993-2002.
BMC Cancer. 2006 Nov 10;6:264.
PMID: 17096841 [PubMed - in process]
<http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2407/6/264>

Reichrath J.
The challenge resulting from positive and negative effects of
sunlight: how much solar UV exposure is appropriate to balance between
risks of vitamin D deficiency and skin cancer?
Prog Biophys Mol Biol. 2006 Sep;92(1):9-16. Epub 2006 Feb 28. Review.
PMID: 16603232 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlu s&list_uids=16603232>

Scarlett WL.
Ultraviolet radiation: sun exposure, tanning beds, and vitamin D
levels. What you need to know and how to decrease the risk of skin
cancer.
J Am Osteopath Assoc. 2003 Aug;103(8):371-5. Review.
PMID: 12956250 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/reprint/103/8/371>

Osborne JE, Hutchinson PE.
Vitamin D and systemic cancer: is this relevant to malignant melanoma?
Br J Dermatol. 2002 Aug;147(2):197-213. Review.
PMID: 12174089 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1365-2133.2002.04960.x>


--
Matti Narkia

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:53:30 +0200, Matti Narkia <mna@mbnet.fi> wrote:

>On 11 Dec 2006 07:26:33 -0800, "James Semmel"
><feetback@shoebusters.com> wrote:
>
>>Vitamin D has been getting a lot of media attention in recent years as
>>being beneficial for several cancers except for one... melanoma. Is it
>>possible that we're overlooking something?
>>
>In general, the exposure to the sunlight's UVB-radiation is slightly
>positively associated with melanoma risk. However, the active form of
>vitamin D has been shown to inhibit growth of many malignant melanoma
>cell lines in the laboratory:
>
>Seifert M, Rech M, Meineke V, Tilgen W, Reichrath J.
>Differential biological effects of 1,25-dihydroxyVitamin D3 on
>melanoma cell lines in vitro.
>J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2004 May;89-90(1-5):375-9.
>PMID: 15225804 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
><http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlu s&list_uids=15225804>
>
>Even if the sunlight increases melanoma risks slightly, it may reduce
>the risk of many other cancers so that if you do your math, you are
>better off with getting regularly brief sunlight exposures on the
>large enough skin area.

The best is a swimming suit, but wearing for example shorts and
T-shirt exposes the legs, arms and face, which a fairlyy large area,
too.

>The important thing is to avoid sunburns. You
>only need 20 minutes of exposure to get the maximum daily amount of
>vitamin D, so there is no point in exceeding 20 minutes. After that
>you can put on protective clothing and/or apply suncscreen.

20 minutes is for the white skin, black skin need two hours, and
intermediate skin colors somewehere between 20 minutes and two hours.
Estimate where your skin color fits within the range 20 minutes - 2
hours.


--
Matti Narkia

James Semmel wrote:
>
> Hi J!
>
> What do you think of my hypothesis that melanoma is a Vitamin D
> deficiency cancer?

MY 2 cents is this: you spam several forums with the same old post every
month or so, get the same results every time, and still repeat the same
old post every month or so, get the same results every time, repeat . .
.. are you seeing a pattern here?

T R Y S O M E T H I N G N E W, and maybe you will get different
results.

P L O N K on yet another forum.

I.P

Hi Matti,

You sound like a researcher!

Before you get lost in PubMed, how about approaching the problem from
an unbiased, fresh point of view. The current medical textbooks still
do not list a deadly Vitamin D deficiency disease of the skin that
affects all ages and both genders. There must be some skin
disease--with an unidentified cause--that became increasingly prevalent
during the sun-avoidance decades. Is melanoma not the perfect match
for such characteristics?

james



Matti Narkia wrote:
> On 11 Dec 2006 07:26:33 -0800, "James Semmel"
> <feetback@shoebusters.com> wrote:
>
> >Vitamin D has been getting a lot of media attention in recent years as
> >being beneficial for several cancers except for one... melanoma. Is it
> >possible that we're overlooking something?
> >
> In general, the exposure to the sunlight's UVB-radiation is slightly
> positively associated with melanoma risk. However, the active form of
> vitamin D has been shown to inhibit growth of many malignant melanoma
> cell lines in the laboratory:
>
> Seifert M, Rech M, Meineke V, Tilgen W, Reichrath J.
> Differential biological effects of 1,25-dihydroxyVitamin D3 on
> melanoma cell lines in vitro.
> J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2004 May;89-90(1-5):375-9.
> PMID: 15225804 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlu s&list_uids=15225804>
>
> Even if the sunlight increases melanoma risks slightly, it may reduce
> the risk of many other cancers so that if you do your math, you are
> better off with getting regularly brief sunlight exposures on the
> large enough skin area. The important thing is to avoid sunburns. You
> only need 20 minutes of exposure to get the maximum daily amount of
> vitamin D, so there is no point in exceeding 20 minutes. After that
> you can put on protective clothing and/or apply suncscreen. Some
> orally taken natural antioxidants and COX-2 inhibitors may also be
> useful.
>
> The worst type of exposure is probably intemittent exposure, when you
> get sunlight exposure irregularly and perhaps too long time on each
> exposure. That way you may not get enough vitamin D in the long run,
> but you may burn your skin. The regular exposure, for example
> occupational exposure, is probably better, especially, if you can
> avoid longer than 20 minute exposures and sunburns. According to some
> studies this kind of exposure may even reduce melanoma risk.
>
> Of course, if you want to avoid sun, vitamin D can always be taken as
> a supplement.
>
> Below some references related to the above text:
>
> Ness AR, Frankel SJ, Gunnell DJ, Smith GD.
> Are we really dying for a tan?
> BMJ. 1999 Jul 10;319(7202):114-6.
> PMID: 10398641 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> <http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/319/7202/114>
>
> "The main rationale for the health message - reduce exposure to
> sunlight, and, in particular, avoid sunburn - has been the belief
> that exposure contributes to the increasing incidence of malignant
> melanoma.2 However, the exact nature of the association between
> malignant melanoma and exposure to sunlight has yet to be
> determined.7 A recent systematic review of case-control studies
> confirmed that intermittent sun exposure (odds ratio 1.71; 95%
> confidence interval 1.54 to 1.90) and sunburn at all ages (1.91;
> 1.69 to 2.17) were associated with an increased risk of melanoma.
> It also showed, however, that people exposed to sun through their
> work were at a reduced risk (0.86; 0.76 to 0.96).8 Even if
> reducing exposure to sunlight reduces the incidence of melanoma,
> its effect on overall mortality will be slight, as the number of
> deaths postponed will be small. In 1995, the deaths of 697 men and
> 698 women in England and Wales were attributed to malignant
> melanoma.9 Even the most forceful campaign could be expected to
> prevent only a few of these deaths. There may also be effective
> options for reducing mortality from melanoma that do not require
> reducing exposure to sunlight - for example, by increasing
> awareness of the diagnosis and access to treatment."
>
> Elwood JM, Jopson J.
> Melanoma and sun exposure: an overview of published studies.
> Int J Cancer. 1997 Oct 9;73(2):198-203. Review.
> PMID: 9335442 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=933544 2&dopt=Abstract>
>
> "To assess the association between the incidence of cutaneous
> melanoma; intermittent, occupational and total sun exposure;
> and history of sunburn at different ages, we conducted a
> systematic review using results of all published case-control
> studies which have assessed incident melanoma, sun exposure and
> sunburn. Twenty-nine studies contributed data on sun exposure
> and 21 on sunburn. Overall, there was a significant positive
> association (odds ratio [OR] = 1.71) for intermittent exposure,
> a significantly reduced risk for heavy occupational exposure
> (OR = 0.86) and a small, marginally significant excess risk for
> total exposure (OR = 1.18). There was a significantly increased
> risk with sunburn at all ages or in adult life (OR = 1.91) and
> similarly elevated relative risks for sunburn in adolescence
> (OR = 1.73) and in childhood (OR = 1.95). There was significant
> heterogeneity with all of these estimates except that of all
> ages or adult sunburn. These results show the specificity of
> the positive association between melanoma risk and intermittent
> sun exposure, in contrast to a reduced risk with high levels of
> occupational exposure. The association with sunburn also is
> likely to reflect intermittent exposure; the results do not
> suggest any strong relationship to age at sunburn. These
> associations are similar to those reported for basal cell skin
> cancer but different from those reported for squamous cell
> cancer. The mechanisms by which intermittent exposure increases
> risk, while other patterns of exposure do not, remain to be
> elucidated."
>
> Garland FC, White MR, Garland CF, Shaw E, Gorham ED.
> Occupational sunlight exposure and melanoma in the U.S. Navy.
> Arch Environ Health. 1990 Sep-Oct;45(5):261-7.
> PMID: 2256710 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlu s&list_uids=2256710>
>
>
> Boscoe FP, Schymura MJ.
> Solar ultraviolet-B exposure and cancer incidence and mortality in the
> United States, 1993-2002.
> BMC Cancer. 2006 Nov 10;6:264.
> PMID: 17096841 [PubMed - in process]
> <http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2407/6/264>
>
> Reichrath J.
> The challenge resulting from positive and negative effects of
> sunlight: how much solar UV exposure is appropriate to balance between
> risks of vitamin D deficiency and skin cancer?
> Prog Biophys Mol Biol. 2006 Sep;92(1):9-16. Epub 2006 Feb 28. Review.
> PMID: 16603232 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlu s&list_uids=16603232>
>
> Scarlett WL.
> Ultraviolet radiation: sun exposure, tanning beds, and vitamin D
> levels. What you need to know and how to decrease the risk of skin
> cancer.
> J Am Osteopath Assoc. 2003 Aug;103(8):371-5. Review.
> PMID: 12956250 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> <http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/reprint/103/8/371>
>
> Osborne JE, Hutchinson PE.
> Vitamin D and systemic cancer: is this relevant to malignant melanoma?
> Br J Dermatol. 2002 Aug;147(2):197-213. Review.
> PMID: 12174089 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> <http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1365-2133.2002.04960.x>
>
>
> --
> Matti Narkia

Hi Mr. I.P. Freely,

Great point, and yes I do indeed see the pattern. But bear in mind
that the old ways of thinking do require time to wash out while being
replaced with fresh views, which is why I post here only monthly. It
could literally be decades before the researchers catch on!

Stay tuned,
james



I.P. Freely wrote:
> James Semmel wrote:
> >
> > Hi J!
> >
> > What do you think of my hypothesis that melanoma is a Vitamin D
> > deficiency cancer?
>
> MY 2 cents is this: you spam several forums with the same old post every
> month or so, get the same results every time, and still repeat the same
> old post every month or so, get the same results every time, repeat . .
> . are you seeing a pattern here?
>
> T R Y S O M E T H I N G N E W, and maybe you will get different
> results.
>
> P L O N K on yet another forum.
>
> I.P