Re: Does chemo affect the circulatory system?

46erjoe wrote :

.... snip ...

"Now that I'm feeling better, I'd like to try some running again.
Gradually of course, but to try to get some semblance of what I once
was. For the past week or so, I've been out there pounding the
pavement but I am very surprised at how difficult it is. I can barely
run for a minute or two before I feel my heart pounding. I can walk 6
miles easily, but picking up the pace to a jog really gets my heart
and lungs to hurting.

I've stopped running a time or two before and then tried to pick it up
again and it came back fairly quickly. Not this time. My question is
whether or not chemo damages the circulatory system so much that it
would be dangerous to try and do some intense exercise. But I don't
want to drop dead from a heart attack before I even go terminal with
cancer!

Any cancer patients out there doing strenous exercises? I'd love to
hear your experience."

Hi 46erejoe,

I'm just starting to research that topic (chemo, radiation and circulatory
system) myself after just the last two weeks starting to "pass out" on
getting up from sitting or lying down for more than half an hour.

I'm interested in knowing more about the effects of radiation on circulatory
system, etc.

In my case I think the circulatory weakness is related to extreme weight
loss. But that's a hypothesis. I've always had a very strong heart and
cardiovascular system, and a very slow metabolism (never smoked, never
drank). Every time I had my heart checked in my forties through my sixties
(I'm 63 now), I got feedback from the doctors that I was in "superb" shape
cardio-vascularly.

I have not had, I think, "enough" chemo recently to attribute the changes in
strength and stamina to that, but I share with you now being someone it's
difficult to get a vein tap into ... never had that problem before.

I have been experimenting with light work-outs and in general, while I can
do them, the next two days I am "worn out" out to a very unpleasant degree.

Re running : I would be very concerned about resuming any high-impact
activity when your "shock-absorber systems" ... your soft tissues,
cartilege, sinew, tendons, fascial sheaths, etc. ... might be compromised
and your muscles out of tone. I find riding a bicycle at slow speed very
helpful.

Wish I had something more helpful to say, but congratulations on your
holiday from chemo !

best, Uncle Sally

Uncle Sally wrote:

> 46erjoe wrote :
>
> ... snip ...
>
> "Now that I'm feeling better, I'd like to try some running again.
> Gradually of course, but to try to get some semblance of what I once
> was. For the past week or so, I've been out there pounding the
> pavement but I am very surprised at how difficult it is. I can barely
> run for a minute or two before I feel my heart pounding. I can walk 6
> miles easily, but picking up the pace to a jog really gets my heart
> and lungs to hurting.
>
> I've stopped running a time or two before and then tried to pick it up
> again and it came back fairly quickly. Not this time. My question is
> whether or not chemo damages the circulatory system so much that it
> would be dangerous to try and do some intense exercise. But I don't
> want to drop dead from a heart attack before I even go terminal with
> cancer!
>
> Any cancer patients out there doing strenous exercises? I'd love to
> hear your experience."
>
> Hi 46erejoe,
>
> I'm just starting to research that topic (chemo, radiation and circulatory
> system) myself after just the last two weeks starting to "pass out" on
> getting up from sitting or lying down for more than half an hour.
>
> I'm interested in knowing more about the effects of radiation on circulatory
> system, etc.
>
> <snip>Wish I had something more helpful to say, but congratulations on your
> holiday from chemo !
>
> best, Uncle Sally

How are you finding these (posts) Sally? Through easy news?
If so, please note the dates.
That post was Joe's 2 years ago.
He's currently receiving end of life care with his family.
J

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:45:03 GMT, "Uncle Sally"
<uncleSally@auldUncleSally.com> wrote:

>I'm just starting to research that topic (chemo, radiation and circulatory
>system) myself after just the last two weeks starting to "pass out" on
>getting up from sitting or lying down for more than half an hour.
>
>I'm interested in knowing more about the effects of radiation on circulatory
>system, etc.
>
>In my case I think the circulatory weakness is related to extreme weight
>loss. But that's a hypothesis. I've always had a very strong heart and
>cardiovascular system, and a very slow metabolism (never smoked, never
>drank). Every time I had my heart checked in my forties through my sixties
>(I'm 63 now), I got feedback from the doctors that I was in "superb" shape
>cardio-vascularly.
>
>I have not had, I think, "enough" chemo recently to attribute the changes in
>strength and stamina to that, but I share with you now being someone it's
>difficult to get a vein tap into ... never had that problem before.
>
>I have been experimenting with light work-outs and in general, while I can
>do them, the next two days I am "worn out" out to a very unpleasant degree.
>
Cancer treatments make patients feel weak and often lower hemoglobin,
which already is fairly low with many cancer patients. Low hemoglobin
may cause lightheadedness, shortness of breath, tiredness etc, so
exercising may feel more difficult than before. Cancer patients may
want to concentrate in aerobic exercises such as bicycling, rowing
(even in the gym with exercise bike and rowing machine) and walking,
and avoid anaerobic exercises, which cause build-up of lactic acid,
because cancer also produces lactic acid. Many years ago I tried a few
times to do anaerobic exercises in the gym, and it always made me feel
bad afterwards.

As for the effects of chemo on circulatory system, some cytotoxic
agents, for example doxorubicin, can sometimes cause damage to the
heart muscle, especially if cumulative dose is too large.

Cancer patients also have an elevated risk of thromboembolism, and
treatments increase that risk, so low dose aspirin daily may be
advisable. Similarly fish oil, ginger, garlic, and cocoa powder also
to some extent may help to reduce excessive clotting tendency.


--
Matti Narkia

J wrote :

"How are you finding these (posts) Sally? Through easy news?
If so, please note the dates.
That post was Joe's 2 years ago.
He's currently receiving end of life care with his family."

Sorry, I somehow mis-perceived the date on that message as from April 7,
2007, not 2005.

My apologies to Joe, J, and all others reading.

sincerely, Uncle Sally

"Matti Narkia" <mna@mbnet.fi> wrote in message
news:djus135ekrgs59as50bqbosljqqk2uqdc7@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:45:03 GMT, "Uncle Sally"
> <uncleSally@auldUncleSally.com> wrote:
>
>
> Cancer patients also have an elevated risk of thromboembolism, and
> treatments increase that risk, so low dose aspirin daily may be
> advisable. Similarly fish oil, ginger, garlic, and cocoa powder also
> to some extent may help to reduce excessive clotting tendency.
>

But take care and talk to your doc before taking things to affect clotting.
Some chemo drugs reduce clotting ability already (hubby has a thrombosis and
has been told they don't want to heparinise right now as the dual effect of
heparin and chemo drugs could make things go horribly wrong....at least that
was my understanding three weeks ago!)

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:46:57 +0100, "Heckenhocker" <fakeemail@mac.com>
wrote:

>
>"Matti Narkia" <mna@mbnet.fi> wrote in message
>news:djus135ekrgs59as50bqbosljqqk2uqdc7@4ax.com.. .
>> On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:45:03 GMT, "Uncle Sally"
>> <uncleSally@auldUncleSally.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Cancer patients also have an elevated risk of thromboembolism, and
>> treatments increase that risk, so low dose aspirin daily may be
>> advisable. Similarly fish oil, ginger, garlic, and cocoa powder also
>> to some extent may help to reduce excessive clotting tendency.
>>
>
>But take care and talk to your doc before taking things to affect clotting.
>Some chemo drugs reduce clotting ability already (hubby has a thrombosis and
>has been told they don't want to heparinise right now as the dual effect of
>heparin and chemo drugs could make things go horribly wrong....at least that
>was my understanding three weeks ago!)
>
Naturally cancer patient undergoing treatments should always consult
the treating doctor before introducing any substance, which may affect
blood clotting. But one should not underestimate the risk of
thromboembolism. Before the treatments, which may increase the risk of
thromboembolism, one should make sure that doctors take all necessary
prophylactic measures. It's your life, not theirs. Many years ago I
had a major 7.5 hour surgery. Because of my condition and my age, I
would have needed some prophylaxis such as low-molecular weight
heparin and supporting socks. Neither was provided. As a result one
day after the operation I had a sudden massive pulmonary embolism in
the main arteries of both lungs, followed by cardiogenic shock and 20
minutes later stopped breathing and had cardiac arrest. That's almost
unsurvivable sequence of events, associated with nearly 100%
mortality. My heart was restarted three times. I spent over 24 hour in
CCU in critical condition, mostly unconscious, heavily sedated, and
unable to breathe on my own. Fortunately CCU had good doctors, and I
had a lot of luck, so I survived, but I had to stay one week ICU, two
weeks in cardiac ward, and one week in a general ward.




--
Matti Narkia

Heckenhocker wrote:

> But take care and talk to your doc before taking things to affect clotting.
> Some chemo drugs reduce clotting ability already (hubby has a thrombosis and
> has been told they don't want to heparinise right now as the dual effect of
> heparin and chemo drugs could make things go horribly wrong....at least that
> was my understanding three weeks ago!)

How's your husband doing, Helen.
It's been a while since you updated us.
J- thinking of you