talking to a friend who is convinced eating apricot pits prevents cancer

Hi,

I have a friend, a very intelligent person, who has become convinced eating
apricot pits (10 or so a day) will prevent cancer through the power of
Nitrilosides (aka Vitamin B-17). He has found, of course, various studies
and information on the web supporting this idea. To my mind they are studies
that do not meet the standards of modern scientific research. He seem
particularly to like the views espoused by one G. Edward Griffin.

This friend has not had cancer, or any mis-diagnosis of cancer, but is a
heavy smoker. He has had family members die of cancer, and he is at an age,
46, where he is becoming more aware, probably, of his aging body and its
limits.

There's probably no way I can talk him out of his belief (I have sent him
links to various reputably scientific sites suggesting that apricot pits may
be dangerous [cyanide], that debunk laetrile, etc.).

But, in the chance, that one of you "Angels" here (and you know who you are)
might have ideas ... or a source ... that would be paricularly helpful in
de-beliefing this particular fixation, I thought I'd ask. If this leads to a
general discussion of what you can do, how you can help, or when it's better
to ignore, the whole range of alternative things that people latch onto ...
fine.

Being a former psychotherapist (meaning I got over it), I am committed to
"loving" my friends, not analyzing their behavior, but in this case I am
puzzled by the combination of high academic intelligence and technical
astuteness of the person and their ending up focusing on ... apricot pits.
If there is a "loving" way I can help him come to grips with this that will
be of benefit, ... I want to : even if there is some temporary "damage" to
the friendship. He's also a very phsyically active person and exercises a
lot. So, he's not some sedentary couch-potato.

The "therapist voice" inside me is already saying : "leave it alone, accept
it." And on one level, perhaps this interest and behavior are a start in a
long-term change in his health practices or personal habits.

thanks, Uncle Sally (whose blood is now fifty-percent soy-milk)

"~allEars~" <us@omniotic.com> wrote in message
news:MtWck.174062$tn2.93605@fe07.news.easynews.com ...
> Hi,
>
> I have a friend, a very intelligent person, who has become convinced
> eating
> apricot pits (10 or so a day) will prevent cancer through the power of
> Nitrilosides (aka Vitamin B-17).

I'm sure you love your friend, but there are two mutually exclusive elements
in that sentence.

~allEars~ wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a friend, a very intelligent person, who has become convinced eating
> apricot pits (10 or so a day) will prevent cancer through the power of
> Nitrilosides (aka Vitamin B-17). He has found, of course, various studies
> and information on the web supporting this idea. To my mind they are studies
> that do not meet the standards of modern scientific research. He seem
> particularly to like the views espoused by one G. Edward Griffin.
>
> This friend has not had cancer, or any mis-diagnosis of cancer, but is a
> heavy smoker. He has had family members die of cancer, and he is at an age,
> 46, where he is becoming more aware, probably, of his aging body and its
> limits.
>
> There's probably no way I can talk him out of his belief (I have sent him
> links to various reputably scientific sites suggesting that apricot pits may
> be dangerous [cyanide], that debunk laetrile, etc.).
>
>
> thanks, Uncle Sally (whose blood is now fifty-percent soy-milk)

Is there a lab test for that (soy-mail overdose)? lol

Living things are creatures of habit until they die.
He's working out is probably not working his heart.
Just like dog-walkers (larger dogs); they're not working their dog's heart,
They're just providing thier dogs a community "dog-litter box".
It makes them feel better that they're "doing something"
That's what your friend is doing.
J

Hi J.,

That was a wonderful response; it's still evoking ideas in me head.

take care, bless Thee, Uncle Sally

J. wrote : "Is there a lab test for that (soy-mail overdose)? lol"

yes, J., but few labs will perform it since it requires electro-shock and
water-boarding.

"Living things are creatures of habit until they die."

those who believe in re-incarnation through karma would add that habits
don't stop working after the death of this body.

"He's working out is probably not working his heart.
Just like dog-walkers (larger dogs); they're not working their dog's heart,
They're just providing thier dogs a community "dog-litter box".
It makes them feel better that they're "doing something" "

this is very interesting J., a kind of zen parable, I think. my
interpretation is you are suggesting this is a magical act on some level
designed to assure the psyche that you are taking action on some problem you
can't ignore, or as a kind of magical insurance policy.

this ties in with my own observation of what i call "magical displacement'
in myself : certain acts i do that give me the feeling i am dealing with
something but, when held up to the light of reason, are about as logical as
throwing salt over the shoulder

I think you may also be suggesting (correct me if I am out to lunch here)
that since walking does not give you any aerobic benefits since it does not
reach a requisite level of cardio intensity and maintain that level long
enough to trigger the well-documented beneficial effects of
re-vascularization and new vascularization ... yes ?

The part about the dog-litter box I am still meditating upon

~allEars~ wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have a friend, a very intelligent person, who has become convinced
>eating apricot pits (10 or so a day) will prevent cancer through the
>power of Nitrilosides (aka Vitamin B-17). He has found, of course,
>various studies and information on the web supporting this idea. To
>my mind they are studies that do not meet the standards of modern
>scientific research. He seem particularly to like the views espoused
>by one G. Edward Griffin.
>
>This friend has not had cancer, or any mis-diagnosis of cancer, but
>is a heavy smoker. He has had family members die of cancer, and he is
>at an age, 46, where he is becoming more aware, probably, of his
>aging body and its limits.
>
>There's probably no way I can talk him out of his belief (I have sent
>him links to various reputably scientific sites suggesting that
>apricot pits may be dangerous [cyanide], that debunk laetrile, etc.).
>
>But, in the chance, that one of you "Angels" here (and you know who
>you are) might have ideas ... or a source ... that would be
>paricularly helpful in de-beliefing this particular fixation, I
>thought I'd ask. If this leads to a general discussion of what you
>can do, how you can help, or when it's better to ignore, the whole
>range of alternative things that people latch onto ... fine.
>
>Being a former psychotherapist (meaning I got over it), I am
>committed to "loving" my friends, not analyzing their behavior, but
>in this case I am puzzled by the combination of high academic
>intelligence and technical astuteness of the person and their ending
>up focusing on ... apricot pits. If there is a "loving" way I can
>help him come to grips with this that will be of benefit, ... I want
>to : even if there is some temporary "damage" to the friendship. He's
>also a very phsyically active person and exercises a lot. So, he's
>not some sedentary couch-potato.
>
>The "therapist voice" inside me is already saying : "leave it alone,
>accept it." And on one level, perhaps this interest and behavior are
>a start in a long-term change in his health practices or personal
>habits.
>
>thanks, Uncle Sally (whose blood is now fifty-percent soy-milk)

Maybe it is your brain that needs the debunking, after all there is
only a multi-billion dollar effort to 'debunk' anything but the
chemicals, so maybe open YOUR mind a little more... btw soy is now
thought to have some harmful effects.

--
"The greater the corrupting power, the greater the number of sycophants
and agents rallying to defend it"--Anarchore 2008

http://zionofascism.wordpress.com/

Uncle Sally wrote:

> I think you may also be suggesting (correct me if I am out to lunch here)
> that since walking does not give you any aerobic benefits since it does not
> reach a requisite level of cardio intensity and maintain that level long
> enough to trigger the well-documented beneficial effects of
> re-vascularization and new vascularization ... yes ?
>
> The part about the dog-litter box I am still meditating upon

While you're mediatating on that, a thought came to me.
Why would a person who, you think is at risk for cancer want new vasculization?
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/u...genesis/Slide3
J

< note : I would personally love to see a serious discussion here about
exercise during and after your experience with cancer. what worked, what
didn't work, what you gave up, what you did not give up. >

J. wrote :

"While you're mediatating on that, a thought came to me.
Why would a person who, you think is at risk for cancer want new
vasculization?
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/understandingcancer/angiogenesis/Slide3"

Hi J,

Assuming the above comment is more than just a jest you wrote off the top of
your head :

There's no comparison between angiogenesis in tumors and vascularization of
muscles due to aerobic training effect. Two different realities.

Now it would be fascinating, indeed, if there were a link between high
levels of aerobic fitness and some forms of cancer, or if there were some
known correlation between muscles that are highly vascularized (like the
legs of a marathon runner ?) and tumors whose sites were more prevalent in
such highly vascularized regions.

Or if it were shown that aerobic exercise done when you have a tumor or
wide-spread cancer promotes vasularization for the tumors or cancer, thus
increasing their toxicity or growth : well, your oncologist would be
telling you quickly to stop working out ... I hope.

But focusing on vascularization may be putting the cart before the dog vis a
vis aerobic fitness and immune system strengthining or benefits.

It is my impression that one of the chief benefits of aerobic exercise and
fitness is preventive, not just for cardio-vascular health problems, and a
wide range of other illnesses which are stress and socially mediated
(so-called psycho-somatic maladies included), but also benefit to general
immune system strength.

No, I am not implying that aerobic fitness is preventive for cancer,
although I wouldn't be surprised if some long-term study found people in
their older years who had a long history of aerobic fitness had fewer of
certain types of cancer simply because of possible correlations with
life-style and habits (like not smoking, not boozing a lot).

I would read some recent research in these areas, since my own detailed
knowledge in this area (going way back to the original work of Kenneth
Cooper) is so dated.

The big payoff for aerobic exercise for me is personal happiness, increased
abilities to concentrate (valuable in my technical work), and what appears
to be the increase in "living in the moment" ! Be reductionistic and call
it the effects of "endorphins," or analyze it away into "temporary increase
in self-esteem due to conscious effort," it works

best, Uncle Sally

Uncle Sally wrote:

> J. wrote :
>
> "While you're mediatating on that, a thought came to me.
> Why would a person who, you think is at risk for cancer want new
> vasculization?
> http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/understandingcancer/angiogenesis/Slide3"
>
> Hi J,
>
> Assuming the above comment is more than just a jest you wrote off the top of
> your head :
>
> There's no comparison between angiogenesis in tumors and vascularization of
> muscles due to aerobic training effect. Two different realities.
>
> Now it would be fascinating, indeed, if there were a link between high
> levels of aerobic fitness and some forms of cancer, or if there were some
> known correlation between muscles that are highly vascularized (like the
> legs of a marathon runner ?) and tumors whose sites were more prevalent in
> such highly vascularized regions.
>
> Or if it were shown that aerobic exercise done when you have a tumor or
> wide-spread cancer promotes vasularization for the tumors or cancer, thus
> increasing their toxicity or growth : well, your oncologist would be
> telling you quickly to stop working out ... I hope.
>
> But focusing on vascularization may be putting the cart before the dog vis a
> vis aerobic fitness and immune system strengthining or benefits.

We were talking about your friend, a heavy smoker
and iirc "working out".
I see that different from body-building.
I suppose I also assumed he'd be smoking less while "working out".
J

Uncle Sally wrote:

> No, I am not implying that aerobic fitness is preventive for cancer,
> although I wouldn't be surprised if some long-term study found people in
> their older years who had a long history of aerobic fitness had fewer of
> certain types of cancer simply because of possible correlations with
> life-style and habits (like not smoking, not boozing a lot).

Did not help my uncle one bit and he wasn't a smoker nor drinker. Very fit 80.
(or so we all thought)
Started with shaking hands which snowballed into a fracture, a mild stroke, then
liver and kidney failure - gone in ~3 months...

So hard to predict the future.

I'll leave you to pursue the exercise and immune system with others here.
Take care and best wishes, US.
J