Now this is interesting - OT

17 Evidences Against Evolution
http://www.megabaud.fi/~lampola/engl...idences.html#6

Number 13 being the most compelling.

13. SUN'S DIAMETER
The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At this
rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.

--
Rhi

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:28:17 -0500, Rhiannon wrote:

> 17 Evidences Against Evolution
> http://www.megabaud.fi/~lampola/engl...idences.html#6
>
> Number 13 being the most compelling.
>
> 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
> The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At
> this rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.

#1 : Apparently this person has never heard of the solar winds or the
Earth's magnetic field (oh, I see they have (#2) and they just ignored it).

#2 : The Earth's magnetic field has been proved to have flipped (switched
poles) enumerable times during Earth's existence... it's overdue to do it
again right now.

#3 : There are numerous transitional beings that still exist... the
coelacanth for instance (unless a fish with lungs is, somehow, not a
transitional being).

#4 : Embryonic recapitulation is irrelevant considering humans and chimps
share 99% of their DNA.

#5 : Probability is irrelevant when you can observe evolution in a petite
dish.

#6 : "If the natural trend is toward degeneration, then evolution is
impossible"... decreasing diversity in gene pools has been shown to cause
many issues in species.

#7 : Huh?

#8 : There are many records of world wide catastrophes that don't need the
story of Noah to explain them.

#9 : "Many top evolutionists disagree with this position." Then it's
hardly worth mentioning while trying to dispel evolution.

#10 : Genetics is a much better tool to explain the relationships between
species.

#11 : Yes... dating methods can be inaccurate... and?

#12 : "There would have been plenty of room on the Ark for the
dinosaurs"... I just spit Coke all over my keyboard. That's one BIG
FUCKING BOAT! The weight of all the ants on Earth right now is more than
the weight of all the mammals on Earth right now. Just building an Ark
that could house the number of insects required to keep every species
alive would be impossible even by modern standards.

#13 : Has the sun always shrunk at the same rate for its' entire
existence?

#14 : Carbon dating is inaccurate... Nile river flooding is the correct
way to date something?

#15 : This person not only doesn't understand evolution, they don't
understand theories of planet formation either.

#16 : A whole 37 accounts of an approximation?

#17 : If it's in the Bible it must be true.


One reason for belief in evolution (whether you believe in a supreme being
or not):

The birds Darwin used as a model for Origin of the Species have evolved
smaller beaks as a result of an invading bird species they now compete
with for food, since the writing of the book.

Rhiannon wrote:
> 17 Evidences Against Evolution
> http://www.megabaud.fi/~lampola/engl...idences.html#6
>
> Number 13 being the most compelling.
>
> 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
> The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At this
> rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.
>
> --
> Rhi

Having had a cursory look, ROFLMFAO! 17 is the killer: it's a fucking
book!

BoredToTears wrote:
> Rhiannon wrote:
> > 17 Evidences Against Evolution
> > http://www.megabaud.fi/~lampola/engl...idences.html#6
> >
> > Number 13 being the most compelling.
> >
> > 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
> > The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At this
> > rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.
> >
> > --
> > Rhi
>
> Having had a cursory look, ROFLMFAO! 17 is the killer: it's a fucking
> book!


I am with Rhi. I've been a creationist since the 80's, and despite what
many may think, the evidences are compelling. My not being as good at
argument as Alvin doesn't negate the position. There are as many
eloquent speakers in favor of creation as you could ever count.

The Bible is way more than a book to alot of us. It is the Word of God,
and the history of His Plan. For me, it is a great source of comfort,
guidance, and perspective when I need it most.

My opinion is that most, if not all, people believe what they want to
believe. That's our right. But making fun of someone else's beliefs is
simple bigotry.

Bobbie

<crysalis7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1162423802.001057.177250@f16g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>
> BoredToTears wrote:
> > Rhiannon wrote:
> > > 17 Evidences Against Evolution
> > > http://www.megabaud.fi/~lampola/engl...idences.html#6
> > >
> > > Number 13 being the most compelling.
> > >
> > > 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
> > > The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At
this
> > > rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Rhi
> >
> > Having had a cursory look, ROFLMFAO! 17 is the killer: it's a fucking
> > book!
>
>
> I am with Rhi. I've been a creationist since the 80's, and despite what
> many may think, the evidences are compelling. My not being as good at
> argument as Alvin doesn't negate the position. There are as many
> eloquent speakers in favor of creation as you could ever count.
>
> The Bible is way more than a book to alot of us. It is the Word of God,
> and the history of His Plan. For me, it is a great source of comfort,
> guidance, and perspective when I need it most.
>
> My opinion is that most, if not all, people believe what they want to
> believe. That's our right. But making fun of someone else's beliefs is
> simple bigotry.
>
> Bobbie
>


i don't believe that

% wrote:
> <crysalis7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1162423802.001057.177250@f16g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> > BoredToTears wrote:
> > > Rhiannon wrote:
> > > > 17 Evidences Against Evolution
> > > > http://www.megabaud.fi/~lampola/engl...idences.html#6
> > > >
> > > > Number 13 being the most compelling.
> > > >
> > > > 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
> > > > The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At
> this
> > > > rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Rhi
> > >
> > > Having had a cursory look, ROFLMFAO! 17 is the killer: it's a fucking
> > > book!
> >
> >
> > I am with Rhi. I've been a creationist since the 80's, and despite what
> > many may think, the evidences are compelling. My not being as good at
> > argument as Alvin doesn't negate the position. There are as many
> > eloquent speakers in favor of creation as you could ever count.
> >
> > The Bible is way more than a book to alot of us. It is the Word of God,
> > and the history of His Plan. For me, it is a great source of comfort,
> > guidance, and perspective when I need it most.
> >
> > My opinion is that most, if not all, people believe what they want to
> > believe. That's our right. But making fun of someone else's beliefs is
> > simple bigotry.
> >
> > Bobbie
> >
>
>
> i don't believe that

*slap!*

LOL

Bobbie

<crysalis7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1162424263.547120.179020@h54g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>
> % wrote:
> > <crysalis7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1162423802.001057.177250@f16g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> > >
> > > BoredToTears wrote:
> > > > Rhiannon wrote:
> > > > > 17 Evidences Against Evolution
> > > > > http://www.megabaud.fi/~lampola/engl...idences.html#6
> > > > >
> > > > > Number 13 being the most compelling.
> > > > >
> > > > > 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
> > > > > The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour.
At
> > this
> > > > > rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Rhi
> > > >
> > > > Having had a cursory look, ROFLMFAO! 17 is the killer: it's a
fucking
> > > > book!
> > >
> > >
> > > I am with Rhi. I've been a creationist since the 80's, and despite
what
> > > many may think, the evidences are compelling. My not being as good at
> > > argument as Alvin doesn't negate the position. There are as many
> > > eloquent speakers in favor of creation as you could ever count.
> > >
> > > The Bible is way more than a book to alot of us. It is the Word of
God,
> > > and the history of His Plan. For me, it is a great source of comfort,
> > > guidance, and perspective when I need it most.
> > >
> > > My opinion is that most, if not all, people believe what they want to
> > > believe. That's our right. But making fun of someone else's beliefs is
> > > simple bigotry.
> > >
> > > Bobbie
> > >
> >
> >
> > i don't believe that
>
> *slap!*
>
> LOL
>
> Bobbie


thank you , i'll be fine now
>

crysal...@yahoo.com wrote:
> BoredToTears wrote:
> > Rhiannon wrote:
> > > 17 Evidences Against Evolution
> > > http://www.megabaud.fi/~lampola/engl...idences.html#6
> > >
> > > Number 13 being the most compelling.
> > >
> > > 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
> > > The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At this
> > > rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Rhi
> >
> > Having had a cursory look, ROFLMFAO! 17 is the killer: it's a fucking
> > book!
>
>
> I am with Rhi. I've been a creationist since the 80's, and despite what
> many may think, the evidences are compelling.

What evidence?

> My not being as good at argument as Alvin doesn't negate the position.
> There are as many eloquent speakers in favor of creation as you could ever count.

It's not about arguments or eloquence or made-up stuff, it's about
*EVIDENCE*. Unfortunately, "creationists" have *NONE*.

> The Bible is way more than a book to alot of us. It is the Word of God,
> and the history of His Plan. For me, it is a great source of comfort,
> guidance, and perspective when I need it most.

It's a book. Written and edited by men, over several hundred years,
who lived in a primitive and credulous society and therefore could
spout all sorts of crap and pass it off as "the truth" or "the word of
god". It seems to me you believe the bible is the word of god because
the bible tells you it is. Circular logic. What other *EVIDENCE* do you
have?

> My opinion is that most, if not all, people believe what they want to believe.

Which makes them unthinking, credulous fools.

> That's our right. But making fun of someone else's beliefs is simple bigotry.

No, it's my right to make fun of anyone.

X-No-Archive: yes

Rhiannon wrote:

> Number 13 being the most compelling.
>
> 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
> The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At this
> rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.

I'm holding off on feeling that compulsion until I see something
supporting this particular astronomical claim somewhere other than a
personal website titled "17 EVIDENCES AGAINST EVOLUTION" with a
bibliography citing nothing but other anti-evolution material.

I mean, come on. This guy is probably quoting some other
anti-evolutionist quoting some other anti-evolutionist quoting some
other anti-evolutionist who was told by his brother-in-law that
somebody he works with has a friend whose wife knows somebody who has a
physicist friend who told him this.

Mark

BoredToTears wrote:
> crysal...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > BoredToTears wrote:
> > > Rhiannon wrote:
> > > > 17 Evidences Against Evolution
> > > > http://www.megabaud.fi/~lampola/engl...idences.html#6
> > > >
> > > > Number 13 being the most compelling.
> > > >
> > > > 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
> > > > The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At this
> > > > rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Rhi
> > >
> > > Having had a cursory look, ROFLMFAO! 17 is the killer: it's a fucking
> > > book!
> >
> >
> > I am with Rhi. I've been a creationist since the 80's, and despite what
> > many may think, the evidences are compelling.
>
> What evidence?
>
> > My not being as good at argument as Alvin doesn't negate the position.
> > There are as many eloquent speakers in favor of creation as you could ever count.
>
> It's not about arguments or eloquence or made-up stuff, it's about
> *EVIDENCE*. Unfortunately, "creationists" have *NONE*.
>
> > The Bible is way more than a book to alot of us. It is the Word of God,
> > and the history of His Plan. For me, it is a great source of comfort,
> > guidance, and perspective when I need it most.
>
> It's a book. Written and edited by men, over several hundred years,
> who lived in a primitive and credulous society and therefore could
> spout all sorts of crap and pass it off as "the truth" or "the word of
> god". It seems to me you believe the bible is the word of god because
> the bible tells you it is. Circular logic. What other *EVIDENCE* do you
> have?
>
> > My opinion is that most, if not all, people believe what they want to believe.
>
> Which makes them unthinking, credulous fools.
>
> > That's our right. But making fun of someone else's beliefs is simple bigotry.
>
> No, it's my right to make fun of anyone.

Peace out...

Bobbie

RGB wrote:
>
> I mean, come on. This guy is probably quoting some other
> anti-evolutionist quoting some other anti-evolutionist quoting some
> other anti-evolutionist who was told by his brother-in-law that
> somebody he works with has a friend whose wife knows somebody who has a
> physicist friend who told him this.
>
> Mark

Assumption...isn't it a wonderful thing?

Bobbie

crysal...@yahoo.com wrote:
> BoredToTears wrote:
> > crysal...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > BoredToTears wrote:
> > > > Rhiannon wrote:
> > > > > 17 Evidences Against Evolution
> > > > > http://www.megabaud.fi/~lampola/engl...idences.html#6
> > > > >
> > > > > Number 13 being the most compelling.
> > > > >
> > > > > 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
> > > > > The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At this
> > > > > rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Rhi
> > > >
> > > > Having had a cursory look, ROFLMFAO! 17 is the killer: it's a fucking
> > > > book!
> > >
> > >
> > > I am with Rhi. I've been a creationist since the 80's, and despite what
> > > many may think, the evidences are compelling.
> >
> > What evidence?
> >
> > > My not being as good at argument as Alvin doesn't negate the position.
> > > There are as many eloquent speakers in favor of creation as you could ever count.
> >
> > It's not about arguments or eloquence or made-up stuff, it's about
> > *EVIDENCE*. Unfortunately, "creationists" have *NONE*.
> >
> > > The Bible is way more than a book to alot of us. It is the Word of God,
> > > and the history of His Plan. For me, it is a great source of comfort,
> > > guidance, and perspective when I need it most.
> >
> > It's a book. Written and edited by men, over several hundred years,
> > who lived in a primitive and credulous society and therefore could
> > spout all sorts of crap and pass it off as "the truth" or "the word of
> > god". It seems to me you believe the bible is the word of god because
> > the bible tells you it is. Circular logic. What other *EVIDENCE* do you
> > have?
> >
> > > My opinion is that most, if not all, people believe what they want to believe.
> >
> > Which makes them unthinking, credulous fools.
> >
> > > That's our right. But making fun of someone else's beliefs is simple bigotry.
> >
> > No, it's my right to make fun of anyone.
>
> Peace out...
>
> Bobbie

Agree to disagree.

X-No-Archive: yes

crysalis7@yahoo.com wrote:

> > I mean, come on. This guy is probably quoting some other
> > anti-evolutionist quoting some other anti-evolutionist quoting some
> > other anti-evolutionist who was told by his brother-in-law that
> > somebody he works with has a friend whose wife knows somebody who has a
> > physicist friend who told him this.
>
> Assumption... isn't it a wonderful thing?

And you aren't making assumptions here, like that Markus Lampola has a
clue what he's talking about? Who exactly is this guy, and what are his
credentials?

Point me to a reliable source of astronomical information that confirms
his claim and I'll eat my words. Not only that, I'll eat a large apple
juice bottlecap full of feces and send you a check for $35.

Mark

X-No-Archive: yes

Ivan Marsh wrote:

> #12 : "There would have been plenty of room on the Ark for the
> dinosaurs"... I just spit Coke all over my keyboard. That's one BIG
> FUCKING BOAT!

You should get one of those keyboard condoms they use in fast food
stores if you're going to be visiting sites like this. I especially
enjoyed this part:

"Also not to be tossed aside is the possibility of dinosaurs living
today... Recently, a Japanese fishing boat pulled up a carcass of a
huge animal that intensely resembled a dinosaur. A group of scientists
on an expedition into a jungle looking for dinosaur evidence claims
that they witnessed one, but their camera was damaged. However, they
tape recorded the roar of the beast. This recording was checked. The
voice patterns on it did not resemble those of any other roaring. You
decide."

Damn, too bad about that camera, huh? Good thing they got that
recording. But OK, now how exactly am I supposed to evaluate the
authenticitiy of an alleged recording of a dinosaur roaring that I have
no way of hearing?

I guess I've decided. Never mind! =8^)

Mark

BoredToTears wrote:
> Agree to disagree.

Sounds fair.

Bobbie

RGB wrote:
> Damn, too bad about that camera, huh? Good thing they got that
> recording. But OK, now how exactly am I supposed to evaluate the
> authenticitiy of an alleged recording of a dinosaur roaring that I have
> no way of hearing?
>
> I guess I've decided. Never mind! =8^)
>
> Mark

I have heard it, and met one of the travelers.

Bobbie

X-No-Archive: yes

crysalis7@yahoo.com wrote:

> I have heard it, and met one of the travelers.

You met a scientist who went on a jungle expedition and saw a dinosaur?

On 1 Nov 2006 18:38:18 -0800, "RGB" <mark022806-asd@yahoo.com> wrote:

><(((*>X-No-Archive: yes
><(((*>
><(((*>crysalis7@yahoo.com wrote:
><(((*>
><(((*>> I have heard it, and met one of the travelers.
><(((*>
><(((*>You met a scientist who went on a jungle expedition and saw a dinosaur?

I own this bridge over the East River that I'm trying to sell...

Tara J. Ballance
Montreal, Canada

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:30:02 -0800, crysalis7 wrote:

>
> BoredToTears wrote:
>> Rhiannon wrote:
>> > 17 Evidences Against Evolution
>> > http://www.megabaud.fi/~lampola/engl...idences.html#6
>> >
>> > Number 13 being the most compelling.
>> >
>> > 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
>> > The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At this
>> > rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Rhi
>>
>> Having had a cursory look, ROFLMFAO! 17 is the killer: it's a fucking
>> book!
>
>
> I am with Rhi. I've been a creationist since the 80's, and despite what
> many may think, the evidences are compelling. My not being as good at
> argument as Alvin doesn't negate the position. There are as many
> eloquent speakers in favor of creation as you could ever count.
>
> The Bible is way more than a book to alot of us. It is the Word of God,
> and the history of His Plan. For me, it is a great source of comfort,
> guidance, and perspective when I need it most.
>
> My opinion is that most, if not all, people believe what they want to
> believe. That's our right. But making fun of someone else's beliefs is
> simple bigotry.
>
> Bobbie

Uh... unless those believers are trying to make their religion law...
which is what's happening in the U.S.

You have the right to believe whatever crazy nonsense you want... why do
you feel you have the right to force other people to live by your beliefs?

"Lastly, and most importantly, the Bible says that God created the universe
and every living thing, so the world must have been created."

and who wrote the Bible?

"In denying this we call God a liar. "

nice argument. a religion based on fear.

Grav

Jester's mummy wrote:
> On 1 Nov 2006 18:38:18 -0800, "RGB" <mark022806-asd@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> <(((*>X-No-Archive: yes
>> <(((*>
>> <(((*>crysalis7@yahoo.com wrote:
>> <(((*>
>> <(((*>> I have heard it, and met one of the travelers.
>> <(((*>
>> <(((*>You met a scientist who went on a jungle expedition and saw a dinosaur?
>
> I own this bridge over the East River that I'm trying to sell...
>
> Tara J. Ballance
> Montreal, Canada

I don't have a river, but there is a lake west of here that I need to
cross. Have anything for that?

"Franz Bestuchev" <franz.bestuchev@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4qungoFp3mk9U1@individual.net...
> Jester's mummy wrote:
> > On 1 Nov 2006 18:38:18 -0800, "RGB" <mark022806-asd@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> <(((*>X-No-Archive: yes
> >> <(((*>
> >> <(((*>crysalis7@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> <(((*>
> >> <(((*>> I have heard it, and met one of the travelers.
> >> <(((*>
> >> <(((*>You met a scientist who went on a jungle expedition and saw a
dinosaur?
> >
> > I own this bridge over the East River that I'm trying to sell...
> >
> > Tara J. Ballance
> > Montreal, Canada
>
> I don't have a river, but there is a lake west of here that I need to
> cross. Have anything for that?



freeze it

Gravity wrote:
> "Lastly, and most importantly, the Bible says that God created the universe
> and every living thing, so the world must have been created."
>
> and who wrote the Bible?
>
> "In denying this we call God a liar. "
>
> nice argument. a religion based on fear.
>
> Grav
>
>

I was talking to a priest (Catholic) who was trying to convince me that
God wouldn't create other "aliens" in the universe.

He felt that God wouldn't create anything superior to man, but I told
him to imagine that they're no more superior...they simply have a method
of transit that we haven't figured out.

He then launched into some analogy about how a shepherd who had never
seen a device such as a screwdriver. He would have no clue how to make a
steel shaft with a machined bit and a plastic handle.

Same difference to me...and I hope ET is out there and that when he
comes humanity doesn't want to toss bombs at him or some real stupid
shit like that.

I also pointed out that the area's sacred rock was just an inactive,
eroded volcano core. However if they like the rock - more power to 'em.

On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 10:25:36 -0700, Franz Bestuchev wrote:

> Gravity wrote:
>> "Lastly, and most importantly, the Bible says that God created the
>> universe and every living thing, so the world must have been created."
>>
>> and who wrote the Bible?
>>
>> "In denying this we call God a liar. "
>>
>> nice argument. a religion based on fear.
>>
>>
> I was talking to a priest (Catholic) who was trying to convince me that
> God wouldn't create other "aliens" in the universe.
>
> He felt that God wouldn't create anything superior to man, but I told
> him to imagine that they're no more superior...they simply have a method
> of transit that we haven't figured out.
>
> He then launched into some analogy about how a shepherd who had never
> seen a device such as a screwdriver. He would have no clue how to make a
> steel shaft with a machined bit and a plastic handle.
>
> Same difference to me...and I hope ET is out there and that when he
> comes humanity doesn't want to toss bombs at him or some real stupid
> shit like that.
>
> I also pointed out that the area's sacred rock was just an inactive,
> eroded volcano core. However if they like the rock - more power to 'em.

That's what bothers me about the idea of any religion that puts Man in a
central role in the universe... if we're the best a supreme, omnipotent
being can do then that is one weak ass, useless god.

and putting some us here just to end up suffering and
miserable...what's that about?



Ivan Marsh wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 10:25:36 -0700, Franz Bestuchev wrote:
>
> > Gravity wrote:
> >> "Lastly, and most importantly, the Bible says that God created the
> >> universe and every living thing, so the world must have been created."
> >>
> >> and who wrote the Bible?
> >>
> >> "In denying this we call God a liar. "
> >>
> >> nice argument. a religion based on fear.
> >>
> >>
> > I was talking to a priest (Catholic) who was trying to convince me that
> > God wouldn't create other "aliens" in the universe.
> >
> > He felt that God wouldn't create anything superior to man, but I told
> > him to imagine that they're no more superior...they simply have a method
> > of transit that we haven't figured out.
> >
> > He then launched into some analogy about how a shepherd who had never
> > seen a device such as a screwdriver. He would have no clue how to make a
> > steel shaft with a machined bit and a plastic handle.
> >
> > Same difference to me...and I hope ET is out there and that when he
> > comes humanity doesn't want to toss bombs at him or some real stupid
> > shit like that.
> >
> > I also pointed out that the area's sacred rock was just an inactive,
> > eroded volcano core. However if they like the rock - more power to 'em.
>
> That's what bothers me about the idea of any religion that puts Man in a
> central role in the universe... if we're the best a supreme, omnipotent
> being can do then that is one weak ass, useless god.

"Gravity" <gravity@example.net> wrote in message
news:454a1a53$0$97225$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
> "Lastly, and most importantly, the Bible says that God created the
> universe and every living thing, so the world must have been created."
>
> and who wrote the Bible?

to say that god wrote the bible, therefore everything in it is true, and he
says in it that he wrote it, is a patently circular argument.

> "In denying this we call God a liar. "

well, no. we call the person who wrote that god wrote the bible a liar. but
"liar" is a harsh word for "teller of inspired fable", and if you accept
that, it's not a far leap to the notion that god is the source of the
inspiration. i think there's much in the bible that's divine, but as with
everything transmitted through humans, it loses in the translation. humans
are a very dense medium. this leads us to screw up all the time, and it also
helps us to keep going. we're very well adapted to life on earth.

"Ivan Marsh" <annoyed@you.now> wrote in message
newsan.2006.11.01.21.13.32.276538@you.now...
> #13 : Has the sun always shrunk at the same rate for its' entire
> existence?

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...shrinking.html

The shrinking-sun argument contains two errors. First, and by far the worst,
is the assumption that if the sun is shrinking today, as might be detected
over a period of years, then it has always been shrinking!
That's a little like watching the tide go out and assuming that the water
level must have fallen at that rate since the earth began. Therefore,
working backwards, much of the land must have been flooded mere weeks ago!
However, careful inspection shows no signs of such a flood, so the earth
can't be older than a few weeks!

<snip>

To sum up, the shrinking-sun argument rests squarely on a naive extension of
a rate measured over a relatively short period of time. It's the type of
blunder one might find in a high school science project.

<snip>

Howard J. Van Till, in Science Held Hostage, also points out that a
contraction of five feet per hour would be hundreds of times faster than
anything a legitimate Helmholtz contraction could handle! One might apply
such a rate to just the outermost layers of the sun, but that probably
wouldn't yield enough energy to account for the sun's brightness. The sun's
current brightness, by Helmholtz's own calculations, would be consistent
with a 25 million-year collapse from an initial solar diameter exceeding the
earth's orbit (Kaufmann, 1994, p.322). Those "scientific" creationists who
argue that the sun is powered by the Helmholtz contraction have cut off
their young-earth noses in order to have something to throw at us
evolutionists! It's a terrible sacrifice, especially considering that they
missed their target!

The second error is the unwarranted assumption that the rate of shrinkage
reported by Eddy and Boornazian is an established fact. Far from it! Their
conclusion was published as an abstract to further scientific discussion,
not as a polished paper. Creationists nevertheless pounced upon it as though
it were the Holy Grail. Before long, serious flaws in its methodology turned
up and the data has since been discredited; the full text of their study was
never published. It is instructive to note how creationist authors became
fixated on that one point even though several studies at the time (or
shortly thereafter) drew completely different conclusions.

<crysalis7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1162423802.001057.177250@f16g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> I am with Rhi. I've been a creationist since the 80's, and despite what
> many may think, the evidences are compelling.

there's all sorts of compelling evidence that the earth is flat too.
just look around, it's so obvious. people in australia don't fall off,
and that's just one proof.

> My not being as good at
> argument as Alvin doesn't negate the position. There are as many
> eloquent speakers in favor of creation as you could ever count.

the problem with creationism is that it works backwards from what it already
"knows" to be true, uses any observation that supports that truth as
"proof", dismisses out of hand any observation that doesn't support it, and
twists whatever can be twisted to support it. the scientific method, which
progresses from observation to ideas about what's true until such time as it
may be disproved by further observation, strikes me as significantly more
productive.

On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 15:02:48 -0500, cal wrote:

> "Gravity" <gravity@example.net> wrote in message
> news:454a1a53$0$97225$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
>> "Lastly, and most importantly, the Bible says that God created the
>> universe and every living thing, so the world must have been created."
>>
>> and who wrote the Bible?
>
> to say that god wrote the bible, therefore everything in it is true, and he
> says in it that he wrote it, is a patently circular argument.
>
>> "In denying this we call God a liar. "
>
> well, no. we call the person who wrote that god wrote the bible a liar. but
> "liar" is a harsh word for "teller of inspired fable", and if you accept
> that, it's not a far leap to the notion that god is the source of the
> inspiration. i think there's much in the bible that's divine, but as with
> everything transmitted through humans, it loses in the translation. humans
> are a very dense medium. this leads us to screw up all the time, and it also
> helps us to keep going.

> we're very well adapted to life on earth.

He-he... now how could that have come about?

"BoredToTears" <beejayceee1@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1162418495.384530.223510@e64g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com...
>
> Rhiannon wrote:
>> 17 Evidences Against Evolution
>> http://www.megabaud.fi/~lampola/engl...idences.html#6
>>
>> Number 13 being the most compelling.
>>
>> 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
>> The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At
>> this
>> rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.
>>
>> --
>> Rhi
>
> Having had a cursory look, ROFLMFAO! 17 is the killer: it's a fucking
> book!

I can only assume it means something to he guy who wrote this list.

--
Rhi

<crysalis7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1162423802.001057.177250@f16g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>
> BoredToTears wrote:
>> Rhiannon wrote:
>> > 17 Evidences Against Evolution
>> > http://www.megabaud.fi/~lampola/engl...idences.html#6
>> >
>> > Number 13 being the most compelling.
>> >
>> > 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
>> > The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At
>> > this
>> > rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Rhi
>>
>> Having had a cursory look, ROFLMFAO! 17 is the killer: it's a fucking
>> book!
>
> I am with Rhi. I've been a creationist since the 80's, and despite what
> many may think, the evidences are compelling. My not being as good at
> argument as Alvin doesn't negate the position. There are as many
> eloquent speakers in favor of creation as you could ever count.
>
> The Bible is way more than a book to alot of us. It is the Word of God,
> and the history of His Plan. For me, it is a great source of comfort,
> guidance, and perspective when I need it most.
>
> My opinion is that most, if not all, people believe what they want to
> believe. That's our right. But making fun of someone else's beliefs is
> simple bigotry.
>
> Bobbie

My thanks to you Bobbie. Neither side has all the answers. Neither side
really knows for sure. Either side is as entitled to their opinion and the
right to express it. I chose my side (creationist) and I stand by it. The
only fundamental difference between me and them that I can see, is the
degree of respect that I afford them, the fact that I can discuss their side
with them without ridiculing their beliefs, which, sadly, is rarely offered
in return. The thing of it is, it's no more a stretch of my imagination to
believe we were created by God, then it is to believe the world came out of
a big bang, or our distant cousins were apes, and either side ends up having
to rely on a degree of faith.

--
Rhi

"RGB" <mark022806-asd@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1162427185.348312.216330@i42g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> Rhiannon wrote:
>
>> Number 13 being the most compelling.
>>
>> 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
>> The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At
>> this
>> rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.
>
> I'm holding off on feeling that compulsion until I see something
> supporting this particular astronomical claim somewhere other than a
> personal website titled "17 EVIDENCES AGAINST EVOLUTION" with a
> bibliography citing nothing but other anti-evolution material.
>
> I mean, come on. This guy is probably quoting some other
> anti-evolutionist quoting some other anti-evolutionist quoting some
> other anti-evolutionist who was told by his brother-in-law that
> somebody he works with has a friend whose wife knows somebody who has a
> physicist friend who told him this.
>
> Mark

Well, yeah, I'm looking into it. :-)

--
Rhi

x-no-archive: yes

Rhiannon ha escrito:

> <crysalis7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1162423802.001057.177250@f16g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> > BoredToTears wrote:
> >> Rhiannon wrote:
> >> > 17 Evidences Against Evolution
> >> > http://www.megabaud.fi/~lampola/engl...idences.html#6
> >> >
> >> > Number 13 being the most compelling.
> >> >
> >> > 13. SUN'S DIAMETER
> >> > The sun's diameter is shrinking at the rate of five feet per hour. At
> >> > this
> >> > rate, life could not have existed on the earth 100,000 years ago.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Rhi
> >>
> >> Having had a cursory look, ROFLMFAO! 17 is the killer: it's a fucking
> >> book!
> >
> > I am with Rhi. I've been a creationist since the 80's, and despite what
> > many may think, the evidences are compelling. My not being as good at
> > argument as Alvin doesn't negate the position. There are as many
> > eloquent speakers in favor of creation as you could ever count.
> >
> > The Bible is way more than a book to alot of us. It is the Word of God,
> > and the history of His Plan. For me, it is a great source of comfort,
> > guidance, and perspective when I need it most.
> >
> > My opinion is that most, if not all, people believe what they want to
> > believe. That's our right. But making fun of someone else's beliefs is
> > simple bigotry.
> >
> > Bobbie
>
> My thanks to you Bobbie. Neither side has all the answers. Neither side
> really knows for sure. Either side is as entitled to their opinion and the
> right to express it. I chose my side (creationist) and I stand by it. The
> only fundamental difference between me and them that I can see, is the
> degree of respect that I afford them, the fact that I can discuss their side
> with them without ridiculing their beliefs, which, sadly, is rarely offered
> in return. The thing of it is, it's no more a stretch of my imagination to
> believe we were created by God, then it is to believe the world came out of
> a big bang, or our distant cousins were apes, and either side ends up having
> to rely on a degree of faith.
>
> --
> Rhi


Sorry, but this is untrue. Totally, absolutely UNTRUE.

Science cannot give exact answers nor 'absolute truths', but it isn't
based on
beliefs. It is NOT on the same ground with beliefs or mere opinions.
Also, it is
NOT true that all opinions, hypotheses or assumptions are equal; some
ARE
better than others - namely, those that describe the Universe more
accurately.
I'll repeat this: some... opinions (not the concept I'm really thinking
of, excuse my
poor English here) ARE better than others, in an absolute sense.

Evolutionism is an idea - one based on the observation and study of
Nature.
Is it 'true'? Well, it's certainly 'truer' than any other we've had so
far (that we know).
Will we find a better ('truer', more accurate) description in the
future that will render
it obsolete? Maybe, who knows. (Although evolution HAS been observed in
some
species since the 19th century, BTW).

Creationism is there with magic, religion, esoterism, and any other
forms of
superstition and irrational thought.

It's appalling what a terrible job the education systems (notice the
plural) do in
teac