Abnormal sensitivity to normal bG changes

I have an abnormal sensitivity to normal bG changes. When this occurs I
don't get the shakes or sweats, I just can't think, and fall asleep
within moments, sleeping for half an hour or so.
I have a meter and my readings give the normal curves. Readings are a
little extreme. I have a bG of between 3.1(55.8) and 9.6(172.8). My
Endo has told my that I don't have rh, this may/may not be the case but
the reality is that the low bG does not give me any real problem (yet).
The endo has run all the normal blood tests and has found nothing
wrong. He has now given up and offered no further advice. Currently I
deal with the problem by eating low/med GI every 1.5 hours and eating
the carbs 2 hrs before bed.

This is not a low GI problem, I'm polaxed by minor changes in my bG.
The endo said he had never seen anything like it. I cannot believe I am
the only one. Has anyone else had anything like this? Does anyone know
a better way of dealing with this? Is this some variation in my
chemistry that I will have to just learn to live with or is there
something wrong that has not been picked up? I just don't know.
Otherwise, I'm 40 fit and healthy.

I was prescribed antibiotics for 7 years if this has any relivence.

"Eddie" <everreadyeddie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1160914570.686364.51370@f16g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
> I have a meter and my readings give the normal curves. Readings are a
> little extreme. I have a bG of between 3.1(55.8) and 9.6(172.8). My
> Endo has told my that I don't have rh,

You've got something! Why doesn't he think you've got rh, with swings like
that? you're not that far off outright diabetes.

> This is not a low GI problem, I'm polaxed by minor changes in my bG.
> The endo said he had never seen anything like it. I cannot believe I am
> the only one. Has anyone else had anything like this?

You might want to google a lady called Lizard Queen, who described very
similar symptoms. AFAIK, hers resolved to an adrenal abnormality? - has your
endo checked cortisol, etc?

But low GI / small, frequent meals is the way to go, at least for now, until
the endo comes up with anything.... and sensitivity to small bg swings (not
that you're describing small, above) is not that uncommon.

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.3/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
No Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/72/72Kg

Eddie,

I'm curious, on what basis did your endo decide that you do not have
reactive hypoglycemia?

In order to help you with your question, we're going to need more
information. Can you tell us what your 1 hr, 2 hr post prandial numbers
are? What's your diet like? What's going on when you get the low BG? Are
you taking any meds related to the BG issue?

Can sure understand your frustration. I have had RH and know that low BG
numbers are NO fun, even if you're not getting the classic sweats and
shakes. Not only can a low number cause the symptoms you describe, but a
quick drop from a high number to a normal number can give the same symptoms.

Besides, chatting with us here on ASD, I'd consider seeing a new endo.
However, perhaps we can sort out what kinds of questions/tests/etc. you
should put to the endo (new or old).
--
Michelle, T2
diet & exercise


"Eddie" <everreadyeddie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1160914570.686364.51370@f16g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
>I have an abnormal sensitivity to normal bG changes. When this occurs I
> don't get the shakes or sweats, I just can't think, and fall asleep
> within moments, sleeping for half an hour or so.
> I have a meter and my readings give the normal curves. Readings are a
> little extreme. I have a bG of between 3.1(55.8) and 9.6(172.8). My
> Endo has told my that I don't have rh, this may/may not be the case but
> the reality is that the low bG does not give me any real problem (yet).
> The endo has run all the normal blood tests and has found nothing
> wrong. He has now given up and offered no further advice. Currently I
> deal with the problem by eating low/med GI every 1.5 hours and eating
> the carbs 2 hrs before bed.
>
> This is not a low GI problem, I'm polaxed by minor changes in my bG.
> The endo said he had never seen anything like it. I cannot believe I am
> the only one. Has anyone else had anything like this? Does anyone know
> a better way of dealing with this? Is this some variation in my
> chemistry that I will have to just learn to live with or is there
> something wrong that has not been picked up? I just don't know.
> Otherwise, I'm 40 fit and healthy.
>
> I was prescribed antibiotics for 7 years if this has any relivence.
>

Eddie wrote:

> little extreme. I have a bG of between 3.1(55.8) and 9.6(172.8). My
> Endo has told my that I don't have rh, this may/may not be the case but
> the reality is that the low bG does not give me any real problem (yet).
> The endo has run all the normal blood tests and has found nothing
> wrong. He has now given up and offered no further advice. Currently I
> deal with the problem by eating low/med GI every 1.5 hours and eating
> the carbs 2 hrs before bed.
>
snipped
> I was prescribed antibiotics for 7 years if this has any relivence.

Antibiotics can play havoc with the intestinal microflora. The
microflora ferment carbohydrates that reach the lower digestive tract
(ileum and colon). The products of this fermentation are short chain
fatty acids like acetate, propionate, and butyrate. The first two can
make it to the liver.

A scholar.google.com search for liver short chain fatty acid acetate
propionate glucose resulted in 1,460 finds - http://tinyurl.com/t4bkx

"Relative to the control infusion of normal saline, acetate increased
serum cholesterol, glucagon, and acetate concentrations and reduced free
fatty acids (FFAs) within 30 min. Propionate alone increased serum
propionate, glucose, and glucagon with no effects on cholesterol and a
delayed fall in FFAs. The addition of propionate to acetate resulted in
no significant rise in serum cholesterol. These results are consistent
with the hypothesis that colonic propionate is a gluconeogenic substrate
in humans and inhibits the utilization of acetate for cholesterol
synthesis." Interaction between colonic acetate and propionate in humans
- http://intl.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/53/3/681 ... This article has been
cited in 53 subsequent articles - http://tinyurl.com/usq93.

Effect of antibiotics as cholesterol-lowering agents -
http://tinyurl.com/yfk6yl.

You might try to use the particular antibiotic of your treatment in some
sort of search. This was only a fishing expedition.

Frank

On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:31:38 +0100, "Nicky"
<ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote:

>
>"Eddie" <everreadyeddie@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1160914570.686364.51370@f16g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>> I have a meter and my readings give the normal curves. Readings are a
>> little extreme. I have a bG of between 3.1(55.8) and 9.6(172.8). My
>> Endo has told my that I don't have rh,
>
>You've got something! Why doesn't he think you've got rh, with swings like
>that? you're not that far off outright diabetes.

Agreed. Yes I find the rapid changes are more noticeable than the
absolute numbers one way or the other in terms of symptoms.

>> This is not a low GI problem, I'm polaxed by minor changes in my bG.
>> The endo said he had never seen anything like it. I cannot believe I am
>> the only one. Has anyone else had anything like this?
>
>You might want to google a lady called Lizard Queen, who described very
>similar symptoms. AFAIK, hers resolved to an adrenal abnormality? - has your
>endo checked cortisol, etc?

Yes it might be BG changes or it might be something else altogether,
I'd have thought an endo should have seen similar things unless he's
not been let out of school long. Second opinion might be helpful.

>But low GI / small, frequent meals is the way to go, at least for now, until
>the endo comes up with anything.... and sensitivity to small bg swings (not
>that you're describing small, above) is not that uncommon.

Yes, spend a day or two testing regularly and see if you can

[1] determine a pattern

[2] determine whether you can alter it

In my case very few carbs for breakfast and small but increasing
quantities during the rest of the day damps out the swings, I'm
getting quite good at emulating "normal" except when I don't.

> I'm curious, on what basis did your endo decide that you do not have
> reactive hypoglycemia?
>

It was just his opinion of my bG meter readings and hospital GTT
(minimum was 3.9) My previous endo thought I did have rh (and that was
just from my GTT). Ultimately its just a name telling me things
aren't quite normal.

> In order to help you with your question, we're going to need more
> information. Can you tell us what your 1 hr, 2 hr post prandial numbers
> are? What's your diet like? What's going on when you get the low BG? Are
> you taking any meds related to the BG issue?
>

A few samples of post prandial numbers, all caused trouble.
1hr---2hr
8.0---3.7
6.6---4.9
5.0---4.2

My diet is very healthy. Porridge, Steamed veg, tinned fish, rye bread,
Fruit smoothies with rice milk, nuts, soya yogurt, Indian curry when I
eat out, this sort of thing. Just getting back onto wheat and dairy
while continuing with probiotics. I'm not taking anything else.

Low bGs just make me feel a bit weak nothing much else, quite easy to
live with. Super fast bg dips cause a few shakes (plus what I have
mentioned) but that takes something like mashed potato to bring that
on, when I bottom out I'm ok. Fast dips also cause a kind of cyclical
tiredness, few minutes on, a few minutes off and plenty of thirst.

> Can sure understand your frustration. I have had RH and know that low BG
> numbers are NO fun, even if you're not getting the classic sweats and
> shakes. Not only can a low number cause the symptoms you describe, but a
> quick drop from a high number to a normal number can give the same symptoms.
>
> Besides, chatting with us here on ASD, I'd consider seeing a new endo.
> However, perhaps we can sort out what kinds of questions/tests/etc. you
> should put to the endo (new or old).

Thanks.

On 18 Oct 2006 13:55:28 -0700, "Eddie"
<everreadyeddie@gmail.com> wrote:

>> In order to help you with your question, we're going to need more
>> information. Can you tell us what your 1 hr, 2 hr post prandial numbers
>> are? What's your diet like? What's going on when you get the low BG? Are
>> you taking any meds related to the BG issue?
>>
>
>A few samples of post prandial numbers, all caused trouble.
>1hr---2hr
>8.0---3.7
>6.6---4.9
>5.0---4.2
>
That 8.0->3.7 is a classic reactive swing that could have
come straight from my early testing records. However, you
shouldn't be getting symptoms from those numbers in the
4's(72+). To me the 6.6 -> 4.9 and 5.0->4.2 would be great
numbers, so I'm puzzled to see that they also caused
trouble.

>My diet is very healthy. Porridge,

There - we differ. I'll bet that's what is leading to the
8.0 and higher.

>Steamed veg, tinned fish, rye bread,
OK

>Fruit smoothies with rice milk,

Those would send me high too.

> nuts, soya yogurt, Indian curry

with or without rice or naan bread?

> when I
>eat out, this sort of thing. Just getting back onto wheat and dairy
>while continuing with probiotics. I'm not taking anything else.
>
>Low bGs just make me feel a bit weak nothing much else, quite easy to
>live with. Super fast bg dips cause a few shakes (plus what I have
>mentioned) but that takes something like mashed potato to bring that
>on, when I bottom out I'm ok. Fast dips also cause a kind of cyclical
>tiredness, few minutes on, a few minutes off and plenty of thirst.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Alhambra
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

"Eddie" <everreadyeddie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161204928.361810.23040@h48g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>> I'm curious, on what basis did your endo decide that you do not have
>> reactive hypoglycemia?
>>
>
> It was just his opinion of my bG meter readings and hospital GTT
> (minimum was 3.9) My previous endo thought I did have rh (and that was
> just from my GTT). Ultimately its just a name telling me things
> aren't quite normal.

I see your point--what you call it really doesn't matter. However,
apparently your new endo needs to give a name to recognize the problem? ;-)
>
>> In order to help you with your question, we're going to need more
>> information. Can you tell us what your 1 hr, 2 hr post prandial numbers
>> are? What's your diet like? What's going on when you get the low BG?
>> Are
>> you taking any meds related to the BG issue?
>>
>
> A few samples of post prandial numbers, all caused trouble.
> 1hr---2hr
> 8.0---3.7
> 6.6---4.9
> 5.0---4.2


It doesn't seem that the bottom set should have caused the symptoms, but the
drop from 8.0 to 3.7 in 1 hour is pretty huge. No wonder you're not feeling
well.
>
> My diet is very healthy. Porridge, Steamed veg, tinned fish, rye bread,
> Fruit smoothies with rice milk, nuts, soya yogurt, Indian curry when I
> eat out, this sort of thing. Just getting back onto wheat and dairy
> while continuing with probiotics. I'm not taking anything else.

Considering your rather carby diet (by my standards ;-) your post prandial
numbers are not bad, but are slightly abnormal on occasion--like the 8.0.
Actually, some say that a person with no diabetic tendencies will not raise
above 100-110 no matter what you feed them, and some not even that high. So
imho your numbers indicate that you are glucose intolerant AND while I'm not
a doctor, I would think the drop from 8.0 to 3.7 constitutes reactive
hypoglycemia.

The important thing here is that if you work on your diet you can prevent
the BG drops AND perhaps prevent your BG from worsening. While we whose
pancreas' are in worse shape than yours strive to stay below 140 (7.7) at 1
hr, your goal would be a bit different--learning to eat to prevent the
precipitous drops. It would include not spiking above 140 (7.7) to be sure.
However, since you are experiencing symptoms at 6.6, you might want to eat
to avoid even this number. In other words the goal is to keep your BG as
steady as possible.

I think from what you've said, that you already know that potatoes, wheat,
rice, and some fruits are going to be your main culprits, you can probably
still eat these things using portion control and spreading out your food to
5 or 6 meals per day as opposed to the standard 3. Instead of eating a
whole piece of fruit or potato, eat half, and keep cutting the portion sizes
down until you can eat without gettting the symptoms.

I want to add that you are where I was 5 or 6 years back. However, I wasn't
as informed as you are--doctors ignored my reactive hypoglycemia and failed
to explain its connection to diabetes--so I failed to make adjustments then
that could have slowed or stopped the progression. I'm fortunate in that I
don't need to take any meds to control my BG, but my diet is far more
restricted than yours would have to be. I'm telling you this in hopes
you'll work on those dietary changes so you'll lessen the chances of
progressing.

Also, are you doing any exercise? Regular exercise is a great help in
controlling BGs.

--
Michelle, T2
diet & exercise

(snipped for brevity)

>

"Eddie" <everreadyeddie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161204928.361810.23040@h48g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> A few samples of post prandial numbers, all caused trouble.
> 1hr---2hr
> 8.0---3.7
> 6.6---4.9
> 5.0---4.2
>
> My diet is very healthy.

Your diet looks OK (with the possible exceptions of porridge and bananas, if
that's what you thicken your smoothies with) - except for that 1hr pp of 8
above. That's a classic case of going too high, then falling like a stone
afterwards. Also, have you tested around the 1hr mark a bit, to see if
that's when your peak actually is? If you're highest at 45 mins or 90 mins,
that would explain why you feel odd at what looks like relatively normal
ranges.

And whatever your endo is calling it, I hope he/she recognises you've got a
problem!

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.5/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
100ug Thyroxine
95/72/72Kg

Thanks, yes, that all make sense. My diet is as it is because I was
having 6 low GI meals a day and found that there was still a big
problem and the restriction was causing me to loose weight too. I
crashed off pretty much everything. So I tried eating every 1.5 hours.
This was an improvement and allowed me to eat the much less restrictive
carby diet above.

While I do have a desk job, which I work at full on. I am also a
professional salsa dancer and I dance most nights of the week. I burn
lots of calories. I think my fast metabolism is not conducive to a
stable bg. In fact, is it possible that my fast metabolism is to blame
for the steep falls rather than a panicking pancreas? If it was just my
metabolism that was to blame, then I could stay on the carby 1.5 hr
diet, if its both then it sounds like a sub 6.0 1.5hr diet, i.e. not
lot of fun. I don't think I can afford to be so optimistic though.

Question; Do you know, if I eat my carbs before I sleep, will this
still strain my pancreas while I sleep or does everything slow down
enough not to cause any stress?

Thanks.

On 21 Oct 2006 11:42:58 -0700, "Eddie"
<everreadyeddie@gmail.com> wrote:

>I am also a professional salsa dancer and I dance most nights of the week.

Gawd - I'm getting too old. I had to look up the net for
that one.

I had this mental concept of a salsa dancer being someone
who jumped around after eating tacos that were too spicy.

And you can make money doing it? Well done Eddie - you must
be good, and no need to tell you to exercise:-)

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Tarascon - Chateau du Roi Rene

Hi Eddie,

Wow, salsa dancing--now that's exercise!

First off, your metabolism is not responsible for the glucose spikes,
although it probably helps in keeping those spikes relatively small. That
said, a panicking pancreas is probably still partially to blame for the
drops, however, if you are experiencing drops in relation to the dancing,
it's possible that the intense activity adds to them. After all, we all
chant: exercise, exercise, exercise, because it helps our bodies take up and
use the glucose.

What is your fat consumption like? Fat slows the absorption of our food,
including glucose. If the meal is too carby, it may not prevent a
spike--just delay it. However, since you are not that impaired, the
addition of some fat may actually blunt a spike by slowing absorption, which
would also help prevent a precipitous drop. You could use healthy fats like
olive oil or canola, or a high fat food like nuts or avocados.

As for your question about eating carbs before you sleep, I don't *think*
sleeping will have any effect. Your body's desire to keep BG at a certain
level works 24/7 and is all automatic.

Michelle


"Eddie" <everreadyeddie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161456178.153288.99230@k70g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Thanks, yes, that all make sense. My diet is as it is because I was
> having 6 low GI meals a day and found that there was still a big
> problem and the restriction was causing me to loose weight too. I
> crashed off pretty much everything. So I tried eating every 1.5 hours.
> This was an improvement and allowed me to eat the much less restrictive
> carby diet above.
>
> While I do have a desk job, which I work at full on. I am also a
> professional salsa dancer and I dance most nights of the week. I burn
> lots of calories. I think my fast metabolism is not conducive to a
> stable bg. In fact, is it possible that my fast metabolism is to blame
> for the steep falls rather than a panicking pancreas? If it was just my
> metabolism that was to blame, then I could stay on the carby 1.5 hr
> diet, if its both then it sounds like a sub 6.0 1.5hr diet, i.e. not
> lot of fun. I don't think I can afford to be so optimistic though.
>
> Question; Do you know, if I eat my carbs before I sleep, will this
> still strain my pancreas while I sleep or does everything slow down
> enough not to cause any stress?
>
> Thanks.
>

LOL, Alan. I think your need to look up salsa dancing has less to do with
your age, and more to do with proximity (or rather lack of proximity) to
South America.
--
Michelle, T2
diet & exercise

"Alan S" <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:lsflj29kmfmrskrqq58jf6q6be9j22s7sl@4ax.com...
> On 21 Oct 2006 11:42:58 -0700, "Eddie"
> <everreadyeddie@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I am also a professional salsa dancer and I dance most nights of the week.
>
> Gawd - I'm getting too old. I had to look up the net for
> that one.
>
> I had this mental concept of a salsa dancer being someone
> who jumped around after eating tacos that were too spicy.
>
> And you can make money doing it? Well done Eddie - you must
> be good, and no need to tell you to exercise:-)
>
> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
> Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
> --
> http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
> latest: Tarascon - Chateau du Roi Rene

"Eddie" <everreadyeddie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161456178.153288.99230@k70g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Question; Do you know, if I eat my carbs before I sleep, will this
> still strain my pancreas while I sleep or does everything slow down
> enough not to cause any stress?

When do you eat carbs, in relation to your dancing, Eddie? It might be that
you need to eat a few before dancing, maybe afterwards too.... but for
longer-lasting glucose control, protein and fat with a small carb snack
might be a better bet for a bedtime snack. About 50% of the protein is
converted to carbs, very very slowly, with luck and a bit of experimentation
just about when your body's used up the straight carbs...

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.5/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
100ug Thyroxine
95/72/72Kg

The story so far...

What I thought was a normal BG, isn't. I'm most likely have
reactive hypoglycemia aggravated by a high metabolism that steepens the
ups and downs so much so that they cause big trouble. The metabolism
also softens the spikes so that my BG's don't make the problem as
obvious as it could be...maybe I should change to ballroom dancing
instead!

I've been playing the diet game for some time now although it looks
like I will have to ditch the carbs before bed. I am clearly short on
the calories so, as Nicky said, it looks like extra protein maybe the
way. You wont find many short legged chickens in my area! I love
avocado/lemon/pear smoothies but just how many can I safely have in a
week? I do 3 at the moment. Seeds have their limitations too. That
leaves veg which has GI. Its all a balance.

I should limit my BG to 7.0 or so, and as this isn't enough to avoid
the sharp changes, eat every 1.5 hours..... a tall order. In fact I
will have to eat most of the time to keep my weight on anyway without
the raw carb. Incidentally I stop eating 2 hrs before I dance in the
evenings so as not to crash while I'm out.

Good grief...the maker doesn't make it easy...If I just sat on my
sofa, I probably wouldn't have a problem.

Hi Eddie,

I think Nicky's suggestion of added protein is a good one. As for the
avocado/lemon/pear smoothies--the avocado is excellent, the lemon doesn't
add too much in the way of carbs, but the pears can be pretty carby. Any
way you could substitute strawberries (or some other berry) for the pear?
(Berries are usually better tolerated.)

snipped for brevity....
"Eddie" <everreadyeddie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161811212.163919.232350@m73g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com...
> I should limit my BG to 7.0 or so, and as this isn't enough to avoid
> the sharp changes, eat every 1.5 hours..... a tall order. In fact I
> will have to eat most of the time to keep my weight on anyway without
> the raw carb. Incidentally I stop eating 2 hrs before I dance in the
> evenings so as not to crash while I'm out.

I'm a little confused as to why you feel that carbs are the only way to keep
your weight up. Increasing healthy fats to your diet would help too. For
instance, a stir fry composed chicken, low carb veggies, and olive oil or
canola oil. You might consider adding fatty fish like salmon to your diet
as well--you get both protein and beneficial fat. Obviously, you're already
in tune with the avocados. :-) Do not be afraid of the healthy fats.
These are fats that your body NEEDS. It's not just that they aren't
harmful.
>
> Good grief...the maker doesn't make it easy...If I just sat on my
> sofa, I probably wouldn't have a problem.

No one gets off that easy. While I've been committed to daily walks for 15
years, my physical activity couldn't compare with your dancing, and I still
suffered reactive hypoglycemia until I modified my diet.

Michelle

Thanks everyone, I'm starting to nail this diet thing. The
frustration is easing and faith in my calculations is improving.

My nutritionist recommends a metabolism test (hair sample) and a visit
to a nutritionist who specialises in sugars. Private health...at least
they never give up. We'll see how it goes.

Got 2 weeks in Cuba now, I'll see how salsa is really danced. I will
be testing out a bundle of foods that I've never heard of, and
can't find the GI figs for.

"Eddie" <everreadyeddie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163375690.269438.233440@m7g2000cwm.googlegro ups.com...
> Got 2 weeks in Cuba now, I'll see how salsa is really danced. I will
> be testing out a bundle of foods that I've never heard of, and
> can't find the GI figs for.
>

Have a blast - and no hypos!

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.5/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
100ug Thyroxine
95/72/72Kg

Glad to hear you're getting a handle on your diet, Eddie. :-)

Wow, 2 weeks in Cuba! Hope you'll share your experiences when you get back.
Habla Espanol?
--
Michelle, T2
diet & exercise

"Eddie" <everreadyeddie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163375690.269438.233440@m7g2000cwm.googlegro ups.com...
> Thanks everyone, I'm starting to nail this diet thing. The
> frustration is easing and faith in my calculations is improving.
>
> My nutritionist recommends a metabolism test (hair sample) and a visit
> to a nutritionist who specialises in sugars. Private health...at least
> they never give up. We'll see how it goes.
>
> Got 2 weeks in Cuba now, I'll see how salsa is really danced. I will
> be testing out a bundle of foods that I've never heard of, and
> can't find the GI figs for.
>