ADA admits low carb diets help diebetics but still doesn't recommend it

According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
“live with long term.”
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm

MaryL

MaryL wrote:
> According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
> diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
> recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
> "live with long term."
> http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm
>
> MaryL

There is also the concern that the associated hyperketonemia is pro-
atherogenic because there is in vitro data that it increases rates of
lipid peroxidation.

May GOD bless you in HIS mighty way making you hungrier than ever.

Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://ABChung.LiveJournal.com

"Unlike the 2PD-OMER Approach, weight loss diets can't be combined
with well-balanced diets"
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love/TheTruth

MaryL wrote:
> According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
> diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
> recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
> "live with long term."
> http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm
>
> MaryL

There is also the concern that the associated hyperketonemia is pro-
atherogenic because there is in vitro data that it increases rates of
lipid peroxidation.

May GOD bless you in HIS mighty way making you hungrier than ever.

Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://ABChung.LiveJournal.com

"Unlike the 2PD-OMER Approach, weight loss diets can't be combined
with well-balanced diets"
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love/TheTruth

x-no-archive: yes

MaryL wrote:
> According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
> diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
> recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
> “live with long term.”

Unlike neuropathy, nephropathy, retinopathy and amputation, huh?

Susan

"Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:5d8qrtF3384htU1@mid.individual.net...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> MaryL wrote:
>> According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
>> diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
>> recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
>> “live with long term.”
>
> Unlike neuropathy, nephropathy, retinopathy and amputation, huh?
>
> Susan

Apparently so. My diet is not true low carb, but it is *much lower* carb
than my previous diet (and much lower than what ADA recommends). My BG,
triglycerides, and "bad" cholesterol all dropped on this diet, and I
actually feel much better than I had for years before being diagnosed (in
May 2004).

MaryL

On Jun 12, 7:40 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <l...@thetruth.com>
wrote:
> MaryL wrote:
> > According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
> > diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
> > recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
> > "live with long term."
> >http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm
>
> > MaryL
>
> There is also the concern that the associated hyperketonemia is pro-
> atherogenic because there is in vitro data that it increases rates of
> lipid peroxidation.
>
There is a lot of good evidence that a low glycemic diet is beneficial
for both diabetics and people with insulin resistance. Such a diet
changes the both the percentage and the type of carbohydrates in the
diet .. Sugars and many grains are restricted so called the simple
carbs and sugars. The diet consist of complex carbs; primarily
vegetables 'and more high quality fats' think omega 3s and olive oil.
The fact that the ADA is hesitant to encourage that type of change is
probably more related to the fact that doing so would implicitly
admit that there previous advice was wrong; also I would suspect an
economic part to this ;how many products now approved of would be
affected by such a move ;how would that impact the economics of the
ADA. A good low glycemic diet is a very healthy way to eat. Thanks
Vince

bigvince wrote:
>Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > MaryL wrote:
> > > According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
> > > diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
> > > recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
> > > "live with long term."
> > >http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm
> >
> > > MaryL
> >
> > There is also the concern that the associated hyperketonemia is pro-
> > atherogenic because there is in vitro data that it increases rates of
> > lipid peroxidation.
> >
> There is a lot of good evidence that a low glycemic diet is beneficial
> for both diabetics and people with insulin resistance. Such a diet
> changes the both the percentage and the type of carbohydrates in the
> diet .. Sugars and many grains are restricted so called the simple
> carbs and sugars. The diet consist of complex carbs; primarily
> vegetables 'and more high quality fats' think omega 3s and olive oil.
> The fact that the ADA is hesitant to encourage that type of change is
> probably more related to the fact that doing so would implicitly
> admit that there previous advice was wrong; also I would suspect an
> economic part to this ;how many products now approved of would be
> affected by such a move ;how would that impact the economics of the
> ADA. A good low glycemic diet is a very healthy way to eat. Thanks
> Vince

A low carb diet and a low GI diet are not the same thing.

May GOD bless you in HIS mighty way making you hungrier than ever.

Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://ABChung.LiveJournal.com

"Unlike the 2PD-OMER Approach, weight loss diets can't be combined
with well-balanced diets."
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love/TheTruth

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:29:57 -0500, "MaryL"
<stancole1@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:

>According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
>diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
>recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
>“live with long term.”
>http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm
>
>MaryL

"We want to promote a diet that people can live with long-term," says
Clark, who is vice president of clinical affairs and youth strategies
for the ADA. "People who go on very low carbohydrate diets generally
aren't able to stick with them for long periods of time."

By that logic, they should stop recommending that people get more
exercise. That, too, is something people "generally aren't able to
stick with for long periods of time."

they dont say the low fat diet does not work and if the same person did
mention it
they would probably say " following a low fat diet with exercise helps
diabetics"

I can only speak for myself but following a low fat diet and doing exercise
got me off medications in 6 months and A1C's in the 5% club for over 4
years.
i see no reason why it wont work for others that also exercise and become
active enough to do real cardio.

Tom

bigvince <Vince.Miraglia@gmail.com> wrote in part:

>On Jun 12, 7:40 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <l...@thetruth.com>
>wrote:
>> MaryL wrote:
>> > According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
>> > diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
>> > recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
>> > "live with long term."
>> >http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm
>>
>> > MaryL
>>
>> There is also the concern that the associated hyperketonemia is pro-
>> atherogenic because there is in vitro data that it increases rates of
>> lipid peroxidation.
>>
>There is a lot of good evidence that a low glycemic diet is beneficial
>for both diabetics and people with insulin resistance. Such a diet
>changes the both the percentage and the type of carbohydrates in the
>diet .. Sugars and many grains are restricted so called the simple
>carbs and sugars. The diet consist of complex carbs; primarily
>vegetables 'and more high quality fats' think omega 3s and olive oil.
>The fact that the ADA is hesitant to encourage that type of change is
>probably more related to the fact that doing so would implicitly
>admit that there previous advice was wrong; also I would suspect an
>economic part to this ;how many products now approved of would be
>affected by such a move ;how would that impact the economics of the
>ADA. A good low glycemic diet is a very healthy way to eat. Thanks
>Vince

Agree completely.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

bigvince <Vince.Miraglia@gmail.com> wrote in part:

>On Jun 12, 7:40 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <l...@thetruth.com>
>wrote:
>> MaryL wrote:
>> > According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
>> > diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
>> > recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
>> > "live with long term."
>> >http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm
>>
>> > MaryL
>>
>> There is also the concern that the associated hyperketonemia is pro-
>> atherogenic because there is in vitro data that it increases rates of
>> lipid peroxidation.
>>
>There is a lot of good evidence that a low glycemic diet is beneficial
>for both diabetics and people with insulin resistance. Such a diet
>changes the both the percentage and the type of carbohydrates in the
>diet .. Sugars and many grains are restricted so called the simple
>carbs and sugars. The diet consist of complex carbs; primarily
>vegetables 'and more high quality fats' think omega 3s and olive oil.
>The fact that the ADA is hesitant to encourage that type of change is
>probably more related to the fact that doing so would implicitly
>admit that there previous advice was wrong; also I would suspect an
>economic part to this ;how many products now approved of would be
>affected by such a move ;how would that impact the economics of the
>ADA. A good low glycemic diet is a very healthy way to eat. Thanks
>Vince

I think you are confusing low-glycemic and low-carb.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

"MaryL" <stancole1@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in part:

>
>"Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in message
>news:5d8qrtF3384htU1@mid.individual.net...
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
>> MaryL wrote:
>>> According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
>>> diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
>>> recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
>>> “live with long term.”
>>
>> Unlike neuropathy, nephropathy, retinopathy and amputation, huh?
>>
>> Susan
>
>Apparently so. My diet is not true low carb, but it is *much lower* carb
>than my previous diet (and much lower than what ADA recommends). My BG,
>triglycerides, and "bad" cholesterol all dropped on this diet, and I
>actually feel much better than I had for years before being diagnosed (in
>May 2004).

But many of the ADA's sponsors are worse off for your having chosen to
reduce carbs.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

"MaryL" <stancole1@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:V%Fbi.122140$NK5.79613@newsfe23.lga...
> According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
> diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
> recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
> “live with long term.”
> http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm
>
> MaryL

So I guess they should stop recommending exercise as well, since exercising
is too difficult for most people to "live with long term".

Rich (low carbing for 3 years)

"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:v3qu63lrcnlnqbibvnad9o3mikv2o7fopi@4ax.com...
> "MaryL" <stancole1@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in part:
>
>>
>>"Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in message
>>news:5d8qrtF3384htU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> x-no-archive: yes
>>>
>>> MaryL wrote:
>>>> According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
>>>> diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
>>>> recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people
>>>> to
>>>> "live with long term."
>>>
>>> Unlike neuropathy, nephropathy, retinopathy and amputation, huh?
>>>
>>> Susan
>>
>>Apparently so. My diet is not true low carb, but it is *much lower* carb
>>than my previous diet (and much lower than what ADA recommends). My BG,
>>triglycerides, and "bad" cholesterol all dropped on this diet, and I
>>actually feel much better than I had for years before being diagnosed (in
>>May 2004).
>
> But many of the ADA's sponsors are worse off for your having chosen to
> reduce carbs.
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Undoubtedly -- especially since I now eat almost exclusively fresh foods
instead of prepared foods.

MaryL

On Jun 12, 11:45 pm, Jim Chinnis <jchin...@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote:
> bigvince <Vince.Mirag...@gmail.com> wrote in part:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jun 12, 7:40 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <l...@thetruth.com>
> >wrote:
> >> MaryL wrote:
> >> > According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
> >> > diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
> >> > recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
> >> > "live with long term."
> >> >http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm
>
> >> > MaryL
>
> >> There is also the concern that the associated hyperketonemia is pro-
> >> atherogenic because there is in vitro data that it increases rates of
> >> lipid peroxidation.
>
> >There is a lot of good evidence that a low glycemic diet is beneficial
> >for both diabetics and people with insulin resistance. Such a diet
> >changes the both the percentage and the type of carbohydrates in the
> >diet .. Sugars and many grains are restricted so called the simple
> >carbs and sugars. The diet consist of complex carbs; primarily
> >vegetables 'and more high quality fats' think omega 3s and olive oil.
> >The fact that the ADA is hesitant to encourage that type of change is
> >probably more related to the fact that doing so would implicitly
> >admit that there previous advice was wrong; also I would suspect an
> >economic part to this ;how many products now approved of would be
> >affected by such a move ;how would that impact the economics of the
> >ADA. A good low glycemic diet is a very healthy way to eat. Thanks
> >Vince
>
> I think you are confusing low-glycemic and low-carb.
> --
Well I at least blurred the difference between them ;but they overlap
so much that I view the terms as almost interchangeable. My
understanding is that all low carb diets also have to be low glycemic
diets; if you restrict carbs you restrict sugars. Low glycemic diets
also restrict carbs particularly refined carbs so I view them as a low
or at least lower carb diets . I view these diets as being on a
continuum from the Atkins Diet ; no carbs at one end;to the low
glycemic diet; reduced carbs at the other. In any case hyperketonemia
was mentioned as a possible negative effect this only occurs at the
Atkins end of that spectrum not at the other. Perhaps my understanding
is wrong. It is not a issue I'd argue about. Thanks Vince

On Jun 12, 9:18 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
wrote:

>
> A low carb diet and a low GI diet are not the same thing.
>
> May GOD bless you in HIS mighty way making you hungrier than ever.
>
> Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhDhttp://ABChung.LiveJournal.com
>

Here is the diet refered to in the initial post......'.Sixteen
patients were told to restrict carbohydrates to just 20% of their
total calorie intake, with carbohydrate consumption limited to
vegetables and salads. Bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, and breakfast
cereals were not allowed.'....From Web MD article "Do low-Carb Diets
Help diabetes? Salynn Boyles :Web MD medical news, March 15, 2006
It sure looks like a low glycemic diet to me.
God Bless you ,Vince

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:29:57 -0500, MaryL wrote:

> According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
> diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
> recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
> “live with long term.”
> http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm
>
> MaryL

I believe in individual responsibility. Folks should be given the correct
information and allowed to make their own decisions. Without such a
recommendation, people sure as hell won't follow it.

bigvince wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
> > A low carb diet and a low GI diet are not the same thing.
>
> Here is the diet refered to in the initial post......'.Sixteen
> patients were told to restrict carbohydrates to just 20% of their
> total calorie intake, with carbohydrate consumption limited to
> vegetables and salads. Bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, and breakfast
> cereals were not allowed.'....From Web MD article "Do low-Carb Diets
> Help diabetes? Salynn Boyles :Web MD medical news, March 15, 2006
> It sure looks like a low glycemic diet to me.

The carbs in vegetables and salads are not low GI carbs especially
those residing in the fruits.

> God Bless you ,Vince

HE is doing that right now as I am feeling hungrier than ever.

May GOD also bless you in HIS mighty way.

Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://ABChung.LiveJournal.com

"Unlike the 2PD-OMER Approach, weight loss diets can't be combined
with well-balanced diets"
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love/TheTruth

On Jun 13, 10:05 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <l...@thetruth.com>
wrote:
> bigvince wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > > A low carb diet and a low GI diet are not the same thing.
>
> > Here is the diet refered to in the initial post......'.Sixteen
> > patients were told to restrict carbohydrates to just 20% of their
> > total calorie intake, with carbohydrate consumption limited to
> > vegetables and salads. Bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, and breakfast
> > cereals were not allowed.'....From Web MD article "Do low-Carb Diets
> > Help diabetes? Salynn Boyles :Web MD medical news, March 15, 2006
> > It sure looks like a low glycemic diet to me.
>
> The carbs in vegetables and salads are not low GI carbs especially
> those residing in the fruits.
>
Reread the passage I do not believe fruits where allowed as they
obviously have a high Glycemic load. Thanks Vince

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 07:53:51 -0600, ray <ray@zianet.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:29:57 -0500, MaryL wrote:
>
>> According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
>> diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
>> recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
>> ?live with long term.?
>> http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm
>>
>> MaryL
>
>I believe in individual responsibility. Folks should be given the correct
>information and allowed to make their own decisions. Without such a
>recommendation, people sure as hell won't follow it.

+1
--
BlueBrooke
T2/D&E/June 2005
May 2007 A1c 5.5
Oct 2006 A1c 5.8
Jun 2005 A1c 6.8

bigvince <Vince.Miraglia@gmail.com> wrote in part:

>On Jun 12, 11:45 pm, Jim Chinnis <jchin...@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> bigvince <Vince.Mirag...@gmail.com> wrote in part:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Jun 12, 7:40 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <l...@thetruth.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >> MaryL wrote:
>> >> > According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
>> >> > diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
>> >> > recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
>> >> > "live with long term."
>> >> >http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm
>>
>> >> > MaryL
>>
>> >> There is also the concern that the associated hyperketonemia is pro-
>> >> atherogenic because there is in vitro data that it increases rates of
>> >> lipid peroxidation.
>>
>> >There is a lot of good evidence that a low glycemic diet is beneficial
>> >for both diabetics and people with insulin resistance. Such a diet
>> >changes the both the percentage and the type of carbohydrates in the
>> >diet .. Sugars and many grains are restricted so called the simple
>> >carbs and sugars. The diet consist of complex carbs; primarily
>> >vegetables 'and more high quality fats' think omega 3s and olive oil.
>> >The fact that the ADA is hesitant to encourage that type of change is
>> >probably more related to the fact that doing so would implicitly
>> >admit that there previous advice was wrong; also I would suspect an
>> >economic part to this ;how many products now approved of would be
>> >affected by such a move ;how would that impact the economics of the
>> >ADA. A good low glycemic diet is a very healthy way to eat. Thanks
>> >Vince
>>
>> I think you are confusing low-glycemic and low-carb.
>> --
> Well I at least blurred the difference between them ;but they overlap
>so much that I view the terms as almost interchangeable. My
>understanding is that all low carb diets also have to be low glycemic
>diets; if you restrict carbs you restrict sugars. Low glycemic diets
>also restrict carbs particularly refined carbs so I view them as a low
>or at least lower carb diets . I view these diets as being on a
>continuum from the Atkins Diet ; no carbs at one end;to the low
>glycemic diet; reduced carbs at the other. In any case hyperketonemia
>was mentioned as a possible negative effect this only occurs at the
>Atkins end of that spectrum not at the other. Perhaps my understanding
>is wrong. It is not a issue I'd argue about. Thanks Vince

You are using the term "glycemic" and others have talked about "glycemic
index." Low-carbing has nothing to do with the glycemic index of the foods
eaten. But it does reduce the glycemic effect of meals.

Different concepts, best not confused.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

neighbor bigvince wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > bigvince wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
> > > > A low carb diet and a low GI diet are not the same thing.
> >
> > > Here is the diet refered to in the initial post......'.Sixteen
> > > patients were told to restrict carbohydrates to just 20% of their
> > > total calorie intake, with carbohydrate consumption limited to
> > > vegetables and salads. Bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, and breakfast
> > > cereals were not allowed.'....From Web MD article "Do low-Carb Diets
> > > Help diabetes? Salynn Boyles :Web MD medical news, March 15, 2006
> > > It sure looks like a low glycemic diet to me.
> >
> > The carbs in vegetables and salads are not low GI carbs especially
> > those residing in the fruits.
> >
> Reread the passage I do not believe fruits where allowed as they
> obviously have a high Glycemic load.

>From the Boyles article:

"Clark says people with diabetes, like everyone, should strive to eat
a healthy, balanced diet that includes plenty of fruits and vegetables
and limits fats and foods with little nutritional value.

The most important thing that most people with type 2 diabetes can do
to improve their health is lose weight, he says. That means following
a calorie-restricted diet they can live with."

I would add that more important than losing weight is losing the
visceral adipose tissue (VAT).

May GOD bless you in HIS mighty way making you hungrier than ever.

Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://ABChung.LiveJournal.com

"Unlike the 2PD-OMER Approach, weight loss diets can't be combined
with well-balanced diets"
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love/TheTruth

On Jun 13, 11:18 am, Jim Chinnis <jchin...@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote:
> bigvince <Vince.Mirag...@gmail.com> wrote in part:
>
>
>
> >On Jun 12, 11:45 pm, Jim Chinnis <jchin...@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote:
> >> bigvince <Vince.Mirag...@gmail.com> wrote in part:
>
> >> >On Jun 12, 7:40 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <l...@thetruth.com>
> >> >wrote:
> >> >> MaryL wrote:
> >> >> > According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
> >> >> > diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
> >> >> > recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
> >> >> > "live with long term."
> >> >> >http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm
>
> >> >> > MaryL
>
> >> >> There is also the concern that the associated hyperketonemia is pro-
> >> >> atherogenic because there is in vitro data that it increases rates of
> >> >> lipid peroxidation.
>
> >> >There is a lot of good evidence that a low glycemic diet is beneficial
> >> >for both diabetics and people with insulin resistance. Such a diet
> >> >changes the both the percentage and the type of carbohydrates in the
> >> >diet .. Sugars and many grains are restricted so called the simple
> >> >carbs and sugars. The diet consist of complex carbs; primarily
> >> >vegetables 'and more high quality fats' think omega 3s and olive oil.
> >> >The fact that the ADA is hesitant to encourage that type of change is
> >> >probably more related to the fact that doing so would implicitly
> >> >admit that there previous advice was wrong; also I would suspect an
> >> >economic part to this ;how many products now approved of would be
> >> >affected by such a move ;how would that impact the economics of the
> >> >ADA. A good low glycemic diet is a very healthy way to eat. Thanks
> >> >Vince
>
> >> I think you are confusing low-glycemic and low-carb.
> >> --
> > Well I at least blurred the difference between them ;but they overlap
> >so much that I view the terms as almost interchangeable. My
> >understanding is that all low carb diets also have to be low glycemic
> >diets; if you restrict carbs you restrict sugars. Low glycemic diets
> >also restrict carbs particularly refined carbs so I view them as a low
> >or at least lower carb diets . I view these diets as being on a
> >continuum from the Atkins Diet ; no carbs at one end;to the low
> >glycemic diet; reduced carbs at the other. In any case hyperketonemia
> >was mentioned as a possible negative effect this only occurs at the
> >Atkins end of that spectrum not at the other. Perhaps my understanding
> >is wrong. It is not a issue I'd argue about. Thanks Vince
>
> You are using the term "glycemic" and others have talked about "glycemic
> index." Low-carbing has nothing to do with the glycemic index of the foods
> eaten. But it does reduce the glycemic effect of meals.
>
> Different concepts, best not confused.
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Agreed. Thanks Vince

On Jun 13, 11:21 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <l...@thetruth.com>
wrote:
> neighbor bigvince wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > bigvince wrote:
> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > > > > A low carb diet and a low GI diet are not the same thing.
>
> > > > Here is the diet refered to in the initial post......'.Sixteen
> > > > patients were told to restrict carbohydrates to just 20% of their
> > > > total calorie intake, with carbohydrate consumption limited to
> > > > vegetables and salads. Bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, and breakfast
> > > > cereals were not allowed.'....From Web MD article "Do low-Carb Diets
> > > > Help diabetes? Salynn Boyles :Web MD medical news, March 15, 2006
> > > > It sure looks like a low glycemic diet to me.
>
> > > The carbs in vegetables and salads are not low GI carbs especially
> > > those residing in the fruits.
>
> > Reread the passage I do not believe fruits where allowed as they
> > obviously have a high Glycemic load.
> >From the Boyles article:
>
> "Clark says people with diabetes, like everyone, should strive to eat
> a healthy, balanced diet that includes plenty of fruits and vegetables
> and limits fats and foods with little nutritional value.
>
> The most important thing that most people with type 2 diabetes can do
> to improve their health is lose weight, he says. That means following
> a calorie-restricted diet they can live with."
>
> I would add that more important than losing weight is losing the
> visceral adipose tissue (VAT).
>
As the Boyles article was not posted on this thread , I will respond
this way. Diabetics or those with MeTS benefit more from either a
low carb ,or a low glycemic diet ;both which address the underlying
issue ;insulin resistance more effectively than a diet based strictly
on calorie restriction The article quoted in this thread seem and
more evidence to support that view. This approach seems simple appears
more productive . God Bless you ,Thanks Vince

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:06:16 -0000, bigvince
<Vince.Miraglia@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well I at least blurred the difference between them ;but they overlap
>so much that I view the terms as almost interchangeable. My
>understanding is that all low carb diets also have to be low glycemic
>diets; if you restrict carbs you restrict sugars. Low glycemic diets
>also restrict carbs particularly refined carbs so I view them as a low
>or at least lower carb diets . I view these diets as being on a
>continuum from the Atkins Diet ; no carbs at one end;to the low
>glycemic diet; reduced carbs at the other. In any case hyperketonemia
>was mentioned as a possible negative effect this only occurs at the
>Atkins end of that spectrum not at the other. Perhaps my understanding
>is wrong. It is not a issue I'd argue about. Thanks Vince

c troll references snipped and not cross posted to nutter news group.

Hyperketonemia
Condition characterized by an overproduction of ketones by the body.

This isn't that big of a concern for type 2s in dietary ketosis. And
with just small adjustments in diet the dietary ketosis can be
stopped. The misleading info given by the c troll is not be taken
seriously.

A type 1 however needs to keep an eye out for this "Hyperketonemia" as
it is a part of DKA. Which is not caused by diet but rather a lack of
insulin.

--
Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o ô)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
....Bilbo Baggins


DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
..

It is remarkable that some think they are ore qualified than
the funded people without any axe to grind.

Now tell me who I should believe---some that
giving a lot of links to questionable sources that
may do paper studies which is nothing but a rash
of loud questionable data.

No qualified scientist will start with a lot
of preconceptions. They will look at all sources of data.

Then they will qualify any reports to show any
shortcomings.

I just ask the qualification of some that are so critical
of the "establishment".

some are no more factual than my "stinky
weed: posts.

A few must be "right" even if it harms others.


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On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:13:21 -0500, BlueBrooke <.@.> wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 07:53:51 -0600, ray <ray@zianet.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:29:57 -0500, MaryL wrote:
>>
>>> According to this article, the ADA now admits that low carb diets help
>>> diebetics (and also those who are insulin resistant) but still won't
>>> recommend it. That believe that low carb is too difficult for people to
>>> ?live with long term.?
>>> http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/new...wcarbdiabe.htm
>>>
>>> MaryL
>>
>>I believe in individual responsibility. Folks should be given the correct
>>information and allowed to make their own decisions. Without such a
>>recommendation, people sure as hell won't follow it.
>
>+1

Me too...

Besides, what on earth are they talking about? Low carbing as a WOL is
the easiest "diet" I've ever been on - so far I've maintained a 20Kg
loss over 3 years without any issues.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.5% BMI 25

"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:epj073tefeom85dcqeguii2c3s7fhobgko@4ax.com...
>
> Besides, what on earth are they talking about? Low carbing as a WOL is
> the easiest "diet" I've ever been on - so far I've maintained a 20Kg
> loss over 3 years without any issues.
>

And I am just *so glad* that lo-carb *isn't* the official way. I'm not a low
carber. I would be an instant "non-compliant"!

I've maintained a >20k loss after 8 years.

I also opted for meds, because I know that lo-carb is not for me. I get
tired of the implications all over the group that lo-carb is what I *should*
be doing! :-)
bj

"bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
newsNYbi.5426$1o.4856@trnddc01...
> "Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
> news:epj073tefeom85dcqeguii2c3s7fhobgko@4ax.com...
>>
>> Besides, what on earth are they talking about? Low carbing as a WOL is
>> the easiest "diet" I've ever been on - so far I've maintained a 20Kg
>> loss over 3 years without any issues.
>>
>
> And I am just *so glad* that lo-carb *isn't* the official way. I'm not a
> low
> carber. I would be an instant "non-compliant"!
>
> I've maintained a >20k loss after 8 years.
>
> I also opted for meds, because I know that lo-carb is not for me.

hello BJ

i dont really think its
low carb = no meds because there are a number of posters here
that low carb and take meds for blood sugar as well as cholesterol

and

Low Fat does not = meds because I am one of those that do not low carb
and do not need any medications.





>I get
> tired of the implications all over the group that lo-carb is what I
> *should*
> be doing! :-)
> bj

hey I just read in another post that even Atkins new book is low fat lol
yea yea i know lol it was just so funny I had to repeat it and couldnt
really
see myself reply to that post with out laughing.

Tom

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:51:32 +0000, bj wrote:

> "Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
> news:epj073tefeom85dcqeguii2c3s7fhobgko@4ax.com...
>>
>> Besides, what on earth are they talking about? Low carbing as a WOL is
>> the easiest "diet" I've ever been on - so far I've maintained a 20Kg
>> loss over 3 years without any issues.
>>
>
> And I am just *so glad* that lo-carb *isn't* the official way. I'm not a low
> carber. I would be an instant "non-compliant"!
>
> I've maintained a >20k loss after 8 years.
>
> I also opted for meds, because I know that lo-carb is not for me. I get
> tired of the implications all over the group that lo-carb is what I *should*
> be doing! :-)
> bj

YMMV. The only thing I've found that works for me is: oral meds, low carb
diet and as much exercise as I can fit into the weel.

>
> Here is the diet refered to in the initial post......'.Sixteen
> patients were told to restrict carbohydrates to just 20% of their
> total calorie intake, with carbohydrate consumption limited to
> vegetables and salads. Bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, and breakfast
> cereals were not allowed.'....From Web MD article "Do low-Carb Diets
> Help diabetes? Salynn Boyles :Web MD medical news, March 15, 2006
> It sure looks like a low glycemic diet to me.
> God Bless you ,Vince

Since I changed to a low-carb diet a month ago, my sugars have dropped
in half to a normal range of 5.0-5.5. My motto now is "No brown food".
-
no rice, potatoes, bread, pasta or cereal. It makes it a little
tougher
to dine out, but it also helped me lose 15 pounds. I'm now only 8 lbs
away from my goal, and I'm sure that has helped me as well.