ADA Ask the Nutritionist - Navigating Carbohydrates

http://www.diabetes.org/live/index.jsp?chatid=58#bottom

The earlier report on possible changes in direction for the
ADA nutritional guidelines appears to have been a little
optimistic.

This live forum was a Q&A session with Ann L. Albright, PhD,
RD, who is the ADA President of Health Care and Education
and the Director of the Division of Diabetes Translation at
the CDC.

Unfortunately I was asleep at 4am when the forum was on, so
I was pleased that the moderator presented my question in my
absence. Pity the formatting got compressed. If I had
realised that would happen I would have abbreviated
drastically.

I'm less pleased with the pat answer which also evaded the
Gannon and Nuttall reference. The same philosophy is seen in
the answers to the other questions (mine is the final one).

Some of the answers were a little worrying in the "dumbing
down" of the response. Read the various references to A1c
and you will see what I mean. One presumes she was "dumbing
down" for this audience and that's not her total
understanding of the subject.

Considering this person's position, I doubt much is likely
to change from that source in the foreseeable future.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

"You've got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
And latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-Between"

I think Dr. Albright had a lot of great answers in the short Q & A and
I'll focus in on some snippets of what she said that I think is really
good advice for all people with diabetes:
__________________________________________________ _____________

Ann Albright: Carbs aren't "bad." Carbohdyrates do raise blood glucose
levels but they also contain important nutrients like fiber, vitamins
and minerals. THis is why you will find grains, starchy vegetables,
fruits and vegetables, in the bottom half of the pyramid.

Keep in mind as you are looking at the number of servings that the
portion size is very small. For example: one serving of pasta or rice
is 1/3 cup, a serving of potato or corn is 1/2 cup.

I always recommend that people start out by measuring their foods to
see how 1 cup looks in a bowl or plate. It can be shocking to realize
how large our plates and bowls have become.

************************************

Ann Albright: Unfortunately, Im not able to provide any specific
advice for this without knowing more. This is something that you
really should contact your physician about. Ask to be referred to a
diabetes educator so you can get some help.

*******************************

Ann Albright: It sounds like you are doing a great job! The advice to
shoot for 45-60 grams for a meal is just a very rough starting point.
Some people need more and some need less. Losing weight is about
calories so watching your portion sizes of all foods is very
important. If at all possible, try to get an appointment with a
registered dietitian who will help you develop and individualized meal
plan.

****************************

Ann Albright: I can't tell you how much to eat because I don?t know
other variables such as your age, activity level, whether you are
trying to lose weight, and medications that you take. You can keep a
food diary to see how much carbohydrate you are eating and then
compare this to your blood glucose results to see if this if you are
eating the right amount for you. Like the previous answer, I would
encourage you to see a Registered Dietitian who can help you develop
an individualized meal plan.

**********************************

Ann Albright: Managing diabetes is about finding the right balance
between your food intake, exercise, and medication. I don't want to
make a judgement about whether it is bad or good and what is the right
amount of carbohydrate.

It sounds like you have been working hard to get your blood glucose
levels down. Because you are testing, I would also suggest keeping a
food log of everything you eat. You can use your food and bg log to
find out the right answer for you. Ask yourself questions such as, are
my bg levels better if I eat more or less of the carbohydrate? Do I
have a low blood glucose rection if I don't eat all the carbs in your
meal plan. This can help you to identify changes you may need to make
to how you are eating.

****************************************

Ann Albright: In general, physical activity lowers blood glucose
levels. But some people have higher blood glucose levels after
exercise because of their body's hormone response and the availability
of insulin. I would suggest you talk to your health care provider.
Depending on the type of medicine you take, you may need a change to
help lower your blood glucose levels after exercise.

****************************************

Ann Albright: The American Diabetes Association works in many ways to
serve people with diabetes and their families. We have a network of
almost 450,000 people across the country. Our call center answered
requests for information about diabetes from over 350,000 people over
the past year and this Web site, diabetes.org, receives over 14
million visitors per year.

****************************************

Ann Albright: There are ways to get yourself started with carbohydrate
counting. First, get familiar with the foods containing carbohydrate -
fruit, vegetables, starches and grains, sweets and dairy foods like
milk and yogurt. You can get familiar with the amounts of carbohydrate
in foods by reading labels. Be sure to look at the serving size so you
can put the amount of total carbohydrate listed into perspective. To
get started, look at the total carbohydrate on the labels. Many
educators suggest starting with about 45 grams of carbohydrate at a
meal. This may be too much or not enough carbohydrate for you
depending on your age, sex, activity level and medicines. Check your
blood glucose to see how you are doing with this much carbohydrate and
then take your results with you to your next visit. Your health care
provider may be able to make some suggestions. If you have the
opportunity, I would recommend you try to work with a Registered
Dietitian familiar and experienced with diabetes meal planning. They
can help you develop a plan for you that will help with blood glucose
management and also preventing complications such as heart disease by
your food choices.

******************************************

Ann Albright: It sounds like you BG levels after you eat (150) are
actually quite good. Without knowing your medical history, what you
eat and how you exercise, I can't really answer your question. You may
need a little tweak in your medicine or diet. I would suggest you take
a food diary and your blood glucose records into your next appointment
so you can trouble shoot with your health care provider.

One thing I did want to comment on though is the feeling that you are
doing something wrong. It's easy to feel this way when trying to live
with diabetes. Sometimes when doing everything right, the numbers
arent what we'd like to see. Don't get discouraged. Diabetes is a
disease that requires daly management. Make sure you have some coping
strategies to manage the daily demands of diabetes. Some common
strategies are having someone you can talk to and favorite hobbies you
enjoy doing.

*****************************************

Ann Albright: I'm glad you brought this issue up. You are correct in
your understanding of the glycemic index. It is a measure of how
quickly a food raises blood glucose levels in comparison to white
bread or glucose. It can be useful in meal planning and glucose
control but there are other tools to use like carb-counting. It has
not been shown to be as useful for weight loss. In general, the main
determinant of after meal blood glucose levels is the amount of
carbohydrate. That being said, there is a difference in how quickly
blood glucose rises in response to different types of carbohydrates.
Individuals can also have varying response to different foods. And
this response can vary depending on the way a food was cooked, what
you eat with it and many other factors. It would be easier if the
healthiest foods all had low GI, but that is not always the case. The
example you brought up one of the few exceptions in the category of
grains - brown rice vs. white rice. There is no doubt that whole
grains provide more nutrients than those that are refined. In most
cases, whole grains have a lower glycemic index so the choice is
clear. In the case of brown rice, the GI of the two types you
mentioned is similar, so I would still recommend the brown rice. If
you don't like brown rice, than of the white rice, using converted
white rice makes sense.

******************************************

Ann Albright: This certainly is challenging. Exercise brings blood
glucose down for most people so incorporating physical activity every
day should help. I would suggest you keep track of your blood glucose
levels, what you eat and when you exercise. Take your records into
your next appointment so your health care team can provide some
specific suggestions. If your blood glucose is consistently high, you
definitely need a change in your management plan including some type
of medication.

********************************************

Ann Albright: I'd like to remind everyone that if you haven't met with
a registered dietitian and you're able to do so, it will be very
beneficial.

An RD can help you to develop an individualized plan for eating that
will match your lifestyle, medication, food preferences, and exercise
so that you can optimize your diabetes management and enjoy food.

On Dec 5, 12:25 am, Kurt <kurtwheeling1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "You've got to accentuate the positive
> Eliminate the negative
> And latch on to the affirmative
> Don't mess with Mister In-Between"
>
> I think Dr. Albright had a lot of great answers in the short Q & A and
> I'll focus in on some snippets of what she said that I think is really
> good advice for all people with diabetes:
> __________________________________________________ _____________
>
> Ann Albright: Carbs aren't "bad." Carbohdyrates do raise blood glucose
> levels but they also contain important nutrients like fiber, vitamins
> and minerals. THis is why you will find grains, starchy vegetables,
> fruits and vegetables, in the bottom half of the pyramid.
>
> Keep in mind as you are looking at the number of servings that the
> portion size is very small. For example: one serving of pasta or rice
> is 1/3 cup, a serving of potato or corn is 1/2 cup.
>
> I always recommend that people start out by measuring their foods to
> see how 1 cup looks in a bowl or plate. It can be shocking to realize
> how large our plates and bowls have become.
>
> ************************************
>
> Ann Albright: Unfortunately, Im not able to provide any specific
> advice for this without knowing more. This is something that you
> really should contact your physician about. Ask to be referred to a
> diabetes educator so you can get some help.
>
> *******************************
>
> Ann Albright: It sounds like you are doing a great job! The advice to
> shoot for 45-60 grams for a meal is just a very rough starting point.
> Some people need more and some need less. Losing weight is about
> calories so watching your portion sizes of all foods is very
> important. If at all possible, try to get an appointment with a
> registered dietitian who will help you develop and individualized meal
> plan.
>
> ****************************
>
> Ann Albright: I can't tell you how much to eat because I don?t know
> other variables such as your age, activity level, whether you are
> trying to lose weight, and medications that you take. You can keep a
> food diary to see how much carbohydrate you are eating and then
> compare this to your blood glucose results to see if this if you are
> eating the right amount for you. Like the previous answer, I would
> encourage you to see a Registered Dietitian who can help you develop
> an individualized meal plan.
>
> **********************************
>
> Ann Albright: Managing diabetes is about finding the right balance
> between your food intake, exercise, and medication. I don't want to
> make a judgement about whether it is bad or good and what is the right
> amount of carbohydrate.
>
> It sounds like you have been working hard to get your blood glucose
> levels down. Because you are testing, I would also suggest keeping a
> food log of everything you eat. You can use your food and bg log to
> find out the right answer for you. Ask yourself questions such as, are
> my bg levels better if I eat more or less of the carbohydrate? Do I
> have a low blood glucose rection if I don't eat all the carbs in your
> meal plan. This can help you to identify changes you may need to make
> to how you are eating.
>
> ****************************************
>
> Ann Albright: In general, physical activity lowers blood glucose
> levels. But some people have higher blood glucose levels after
> exercise because of their body's hormone response and the availability
> of insulin. I would suggest you talk to your health care provider.
> Depending on the type of medicine you take, you may need a change to
> help lower your blood glucose levels after exercise.
>
> ****************************************
>
> Ann Albright: The American Diabetes Association works in many ways to
> serve people with diabetes and their families. We have a network of
> almost 450,000 people across the country. Our call center answered
> requests for information about diabetes from over 350,000 people over
> the past year and this Web site, diabetes.org, receives over 14
> million visitors per year.
>
> ****************************************
>
> Ann Albright: There are ways to get yourself started with carbohydrate
> counting. First, get familiar with the foods containing carbohydrate -
> fruit, vegetables, starches and grains, sweets and dairy foods like
> milk and yogurt. You can get familiar with the amounts of carbohydrate
> in foods by reading labels. Be sure to look at the serving size so you
> can put the amount of total carbohydrate listed into perspective. To
> get started, look at the total carbohydrate on the labels. Many
> educators suggest starting with about 45 grams of carbohydrate at a
> meal. This may be too much or not enough carbohydrate for you
> depending on your age, sex, activity level and medicines. Check your
> blood glucose to see how you are doing with this much carbohydrate and
> then take your results with you to your next visit. Your health care
> provider may be able to make some suggestions. If you have the
> opportunity, I would recommend you try to work with a Registered
> Dietitian familiar and experienced with diabetes meal planning. They
> can help you develop a plan for you that will help with blood glucose
> management and also preventing complications such as heart disease by
> your food choices.
>
> ******************************************
>
> Ann Albright: It sounds like you BG levels after you eat (150) are
> actually quite good. Without knowing your medical history, what you
> eat and how you exercise, I can't really answer your question. You may
> need a little tweak in your medicine or diet. I would suggest you take
> a food diary and your blood glucose records into your next appointment
> so you can trouble shoot with your health care provider.
>
> One thing I did want to comment on though is the feeling that you are
> doing something wrong. It's easy to feel this way when trying to live
> with diabetes. Sometimes when doing everything right, the numbers
> arent what we'd like to see. Don't get discouraged. Diabetes is a
> disease that requires daly management. Make sure you have some coping
> strategies to manage the daily demands of diabetes. Some common
> strategies are having someone you can talk to and favorite hobbies you
> enjoy doing.
>
> *****************************************
>
> Ann Albright: I'm glad you brought this issue up. You are correct in
> your understanding of the glycemic index. It is a measure of how
> quickly a food raises blood glucose levels in comparison to white
> bread or glucose. It can be useful in meal planning and glucose
> control but there are other tools to use like carb-counting. It has
> not been shown to be as useful for weight loss. In general, the main
> determinant of after meal blood glucose levels is the amount of
> carbohydrate. That being said, there is a difference in how quickly
> blood glucose rises in response to different types of carbohydrates.
> Individuals can also have varying response to different foods. And
> this response can vary depending on the way a food was cooked, what
> you eat with it and many other factors. It would be easier if the
> healthiest foods all had low GI, but that is not always the case. The
> example you brought up one of the few exceptions in the category of
> grains - brown rice vs. white rice. There is no doubt that whole
> grains provide more nutrients than those that are refined. In most
> cases, whole grains have a lower glycemic index so the choice is
> clear. In the case of brown rice, the GI of the two types you
> mentioned is similar, so I would still recommend the brown rice. If
> you don't like brown rice, than of the white rice, using converted
> white rice makes sense.
>
> ******************************************
>
> Ann Albright: This certainly is challenging. Exercise brings blood
> glucose down for most people so incorporating physical activity every
> day should help. I would suggest you keep track of your blood glucose
> levels, what you eat and when you exercise. Take your records into
> your next appointment so your health care team can provide some
> specific suggestions. If your blood glucose is consistently high, you
> definitely need a change in your management plan including some type
> of medication.
>
> ********************************************
>
> Ann Albright: I'd like to remind everyone that if you haven't met with
> a registered dietitian and you're able to do so, it will be very
> beneficial.
>
> An RD can help you to develop an individualized plan for eating that
> will match your lifestyle, medication, food preferences, and exercise
> so that you can optimize your diabetes management and enjoy food.

Thanks for posting this Kurt.

On Dec 4, 11:45 pm, Alan S <loralgtweightandca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.diabetes.org/live/index.jsp?chatid=58#bottom
>
> The earlier report on possible changes in direction for the
> ADA nutritional guidelines appears to have been a little
> optimistic.
>
> This live forum was a Q&A session with Ann L. Albright, PhD,
> RD, who is the ADA President of Health Care and Education
> and the Director of the Division of Diabetes Translation at
> the CDC.
>
> Unfortunately I was asleep at 4am when the forum was on, so
> I was pleased that the moderator presented my question in my
> absence. Pity the formatting got compressed. If I had
> realised that would happen I would have abbreviated
> drastically.
>
> I'm less pleased with the pat answer which also evaded the
> Gannon and Nuttall reference. The same philosophy is seen in
> the answers to the other questions (mine is the final one).
>
> Some of the answers were a little worrying in the "dumbing
> down" of the response. Read the various references to A1c
> and you will see what I mean. One presumes she was "dumbing
> down" for this audience and that's not her total
> understanding of the subject.
>
> Considering this person's position, I doubt much is likely
> to change from that source in the foreseeable future.
>
> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
> Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
> --http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

Those were good questions. However, I do agree with the way she summed
it up:

"We suggest that people with diabetes work with the health care
providers to identify the optimal mix for them."

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 04:24:26 -0800 (PST), Lerp
<diabeticlerp@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Dec 4, 11:45 pm, Alan S <loralgtweightandca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://www.diabetes.org/live/index.jsp?chatid=58#bottom
>>
>> The earlier report on possible changes in direction for the
>> ADA nutritional guidelines appears to have been a little
>> optimistic.
>>
>> This live forum was a Q&A session with Ann L. Albright, PhD,
>> RD, who is the ADA President of Health Care and Education
>> and the Director of the Division of Diabetes Translation at
>> the CDC.
>>
>> Unfortunately I was asleep at 4am when the forum was on, so
>> I was pleased that the moderator presented my question in my
>> absence. Pity the formatting got compressed. If I had
>> realised that would happen I would have abbreviated
>> drastically.
>>
>> I'm less pleased with the pat answer which also evaded the
>> Gannon and Nuttall reference. The same philosophy is seen in
>> the answers to the other questions (mine is the final one).
>>
>> Some of the answers were a little worrying in the "dumbing
>> down" of the response. Read the various references to A1c
>> and you will see what I mean. One presumes she was "dumbing
>> down" for this audience and that's not her total
>> understanding of the subject.
>>
>> Considering this person's position, I doubt much is likely
>> to change from that source in the foreseeable future.
>>
>> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
>> d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
>> Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
>> --http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
>
>Those were good questions. However, I do agree with the way she summed
>it up:
>
>"We suggest that people with diabetes work with the health care
>providers to identify the optimal mix for them."

Sounds like wonderful advice.

Of course, those providers must be properly trained, and
remain current with any changes in the national guidelines
for diabetic treatment.

Is it possible that one of the people most likely to be
drafting and teaching the guidelines training those
healthcare professionals may be the ADA President of Health
Care and Education and the Director of the Division of
Diabetes Translation at the CDC.

Ponder on that point for a while. Now go back and re-read
some of the answers she gave.

Just for example, let's forget diet for the moment. Most
old-timers here have a pretty good idea of what HbA1c is and
it's relationship to BG's. So, would you consider these
useful answers for a patient:

**
McMinnville, Oregon: My Dr. uses the A1C test and I use a
home blood gluscose monitor. Is there a correlation chart
between the two tests?

Ann Albright: There is some research to show the correlation
between the A1C and blood glucose results you get from your
meter. You can find a chart on the ADA website with the
values.
**

Henderson, NV: What is AIC? Can AIC be explained in clear
layman's terms?

Ann Albright: A1C is a blood test that measures your blood
glucose levels for about the last 3-4 months. You might want
to think of it as an average blood glucose for that time
period.
**

To me the first answer was a waste of the questioner's time;
the second one is just plain wrong. I can only presume she
was "dumbing it down". I hate to think that is what she
really understands A1c to be.

Without going into lots of detail, that's also how the carb
questions were answered. Every answer could have been read
off the web-site from the page that Morris and Kurt keep
excusing as superseded by later changes elsewhere. The
infamous "eat more whole grains" page.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

"Alan S" <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:je6dl35jup0952u2d9feblc3hutsl7hpcr@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 04:24:26 -0800 (PST), Lerp
> <diabeticlerp@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Dec 4, 11:45 pm, Alan S <loralgtweightandca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> http://www.diabetes.org/live/index.jsp?chatid=58#bottom
>>>
>>> The earlier report on possible changes in direction for the
>>> ADA nutritional guidelines appears to have been a little
>>> optimistic.
>>>
>>> This live forum was a Q&A session with Ann L. Albright, PhD,
>>> RD, who is the ADA President of Health Care and Education
>>> and the Director of the Division of Diabetes Translation at
>>> the CDC.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately I was asleep at 4am when the forum was on, so
>>> I was pleased that the moderator presented my question in my
>>> absence. Pity the formatting got compressed. If I had
>>> realised that would happen I would have abbreviated
>>> drastically.
>>>
>>> I'm less pleased with the pat answer which also evaded the
>>> Gannon and Nuttall reference. The same philosophy is seen in
>>> the answers to the other questions (mine is the final one).
>>>
>>> Some of the answers were a little worrying in the "dumbing
>>> down" of the response. Read the various references to A1c
>>> and you will see what I mean. One presumes she was "dumbing
>>> down" for this audience and that's not her total
>>> understanding of the subject.
>>>
>>> Considering this person's position, I doubt much is likely
>>> to change from that source in the foreseeable future.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
>>> d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
>>> Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
>>> --http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
>>
>>Those were good questions. However, I do agree with the way she summed
>>it up:
>>
>>"We suggest that people with diabetes work with the health care
>>providers to identify the optimal mix for them."
>
> Sounds like wonderful advice.
>
> Of course, those providers must be properly trained, and
> remain current with any changes in the national guidelines
> for diabetic treatment.
>
> Is it possible that one of the people most likely to be
> drafting and teaching the guidelines training those
> healthcare professionals may be the ADA President of Health
> Care and Education and the Director of the Division of
> Diabetes Translation at the CDC.
>
> Ponder on that point for a while. Now go back and re-read
> some of the answers she gave.
>
> Just for example, let's forget diet for the moment. Most
> old-timers here have a pretty good idea of what HbA1c is and
> it's relationship to BG's. So, would you consider these
> useful answers for a patient:
>
> **
> McMinnville, Oregon: My Dr. uses the A1C test and I use a
> home blood gluscose monitor. Is there a correlation chart
> between the two tests?
>
> Ann Albright: There is some research to show the correlation
> between the A1C and blood glucose results you get from your
> meter. You can find a chart on the ADA website with the
> values.
> **
>
> Henderson, NV: What is AIC? Can AIC be explained in clear
> layman's terms?
>
> Ann Albright: A1C is a blood test that measures your blood
> glucose levels for about the last 3-4 months. You might want
> to think of it as an average blood glucose for that time
> period.
> **
>
> To me the first answer was a waste of the questioner's time;
> the second one is just plain wrong. I can only presume she
> was "dumbing it down". I hate to think that is what she
> really understands A1c to be.
>
> Without going into lots of detail, that's also how the carb
> questions were answered. Every answer could have been read
> off the web-site from the page that Morris and Kurt keep
> excusing as superseded by later changes elsewhere. The
> infamous "eat more whole grains" page.
>
>
> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
> Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
> --
> http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

Her reply to the A1c question was accurate enough and similar to how just
about the way everyone else explains it. She could have been more detailed,
but why should she?

Alan S wrote:
> Of course, those providers must be properly trained, and
> remain current with any changes in the national guidelines
> for diabetic treatment.

IMO, it's important they not be of a "dietary religion" also.

I think this is why I got along so well with my nutritionist. She said
she is a vegetarian and eats a lot more carbs than most diabetics
should. I said I low-carb for my diabetes and am trying very hard to
eat better fats for my heart issues.

No proselytizing occurred; she didn't try to get me to eat more starch
and I didn't try to get her not to.

Of course, we massively agreed on the eating lotsa veggies thing; IMO,
that advice is good for *anyone* regardless of their health issues,
though some might have to deal with different preparation methods than
others.


> Without going into lots of detail, that's also how the carb
> questions were answered. Every answer could have been read
> off the web-site from the page that Morris and Kurt keep
> excusing as superseded by later changes elsewhere. The
> infamous "eat more whole grains" page.

I really wish some of the "whole grains" pushers would explain it
properly; most people have no idea what a whole grain really is and see
"whole grains" labels on absolute junk food and think this means
Cheerios is healthy stuff.

Even when focusing on whole grains, some are *much* better for diabetics
than others.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

On Dec 5, 8:26�am, Jackie Patti <jpa...@ccil.org> wrote:
> Alan S wrote:
> > Of course, those providers must be properly trained, and
> > remain current with any changes in the national guidelines
> > for diabetic treatment.
>
> IMO, it's important they not be of a "dietary religion" also.
>
> I think this is why I got along so well with my nutritionist. �Shesaid
> she is a vegetarian and eats a lot more carbs than most diabetics
> should. �I said I low-carb for my diabetes and am trying very hardto
> eat better fats for my heart issues.
>
> No proselytizing occurred; she didn't try to get me to eat more starch
> and I didn't try to get her not to.
>
> Of course, we massively agreed on the eating lotsa veggies thing; IMO,
> that advice is good for *anyone* regardless of their health issues,
> though some might have to deal with different preparation methods than
> others.
>
> > Without going into lots of detail, that's also how the carb
> > questions were answered. Every answer could have been read
> > off the web-site from the page that Morris and Kurt keep
> > excusing as superseded by later changes elsewhere. The
> > infamous "eat more whole grains" page.
>
> I really wish some of the "whole grains" pushers would explain it
> properly; most people have no idea what a whole grain really is and see
> "whole grains" labels on absolute junk food and think this means
> Cheerios is healthy stuff.

I agree with that 100%. Cheerios and other "good for you cholesterol
lowering foods" that are advertised have a lot of garbage in them and
are about as far away from a whole grain as I am from eating at Burger
King today.

Kurt

Freckles wrote:

> Her reply to the A1c question was accurate enough and similar to how just
> about the way everyone else explains it. She could have been more detailed,
> but why should she?

I shall rant now.

Because being inaccurate is JUST NOT NECESSARY.

What is wrong with saying... Sugars in your blood react with proteins in
your blood; red blood cells contain a protein called hemoglobin that
reacts with sugar; red blood cells last about 90 days before they're
replaced, so measuring the amount of hemoglobin that has reacted with
sugar is a rough estimate of your blood sugar control over the past few
months.

I can say the same in even littler words if necessary; I could explain
this to a small child if one asked me.

I HATE when educators give wrong answers to "simplify" things. They are
only simplifying for themselves because they're too damned lazy to
translate from technical terms to the language of their audience.

I can't even TELL you how often students in freshman chemistry can't
distinguish between mass, weight and density. It drove me NUTS. It'd
have been easier to teach them had they *no* idea what those terms mean
than an incorrect idea as you have to first erase wrong ideas they've
had for years that are *stuck* in their brains.

I *hated* this sort of thing when my daughter was in school, and saw it
over and over again, that they "simplify" ideas until they're just
flatout wrong. I spent half my time when helping her with homework
explaining the *real* science instead of the watered-down, incorrect
crap they were feeding her.

I managed to explain X and Y chromosomes to a 5 year old asking me how
you got boy babies vs. girl babies, without ever using the words
"chromosomes", "ovum" or "sperm" even once. The concept isn't too
complex for a 5-year-old, just the vocabulary is.

Hell, I explained how to isolate DNA from Dictyostelium discoideum to
her at the same age - and why I was doing it. She did kinda freak when
we go to the step of lysing the cells, begging me not to "kill" them.
I didn't find it hard to explain that scratching your arm kills
single-cell organisms too, to put her misunderstanding of me as a slime
mold murdered into appropriate context.

Most people are not born stupid. Even if they don't have the right
vocabulary, you can explain in smaller words. People *become* stupid
when their brains are filled with crap by teachers who "simplify" things
until they're untrue.

It takes a bit of work to "translate" from a more advanced vocabuulary
to a simpler one, but laziness on the part of the teacher does not
excuse teaching stupidity.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

"Kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea4a045e-8913-47e1-92ab-86de8a107cee@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> "You've got to accentuate the positive
> Eliminate the negative
> And latch on to the affirmative
> Don't mess with Mister In-Between"
>
> I think Dr. Albright had a lot of great answers in the short Q & A and
> I'll focus in on some snippets of what she said that I think is really
> good advice for all people with diabetes:
> __________________________________________________ _____________
>
> Ann Albright: Carbs aren't "bad." Carbohdyrates do raise blood glucose
> levels but they also contain important nutrients like fiber, vitamins
> and minerals. THis is why you will find grains, starchy vegetables,
> fruits and vegetables, in the bottom half of the pyramid.
>
> Keep in mind as you are looking at the number of servings that the
> portion size is very small. For example: one serving of pasta or rice
> is 1/3 cup, a serving of potato or corn is 1/2 cup.
>
> I always recommend that people start out by measuring their foods to
> see how 1 cup looks in a bowl or plate. It can be shocking to realize
> how large our plates and bowls have become.
>
> ************************************
>
> Ann Albright: Unfortunately, Im not able to provide any specific
> advice for this without knowing more. This is something that you
> really should contact your physician about. Ask to be referred to a
> diabetes educator so you can get some help.
>
> *******************************
>
> Ann Albright: It sounds like you are doing a great job! The advice to
> shoot for 45-60 grams for a meal is just a very rough starting point.
> Some people need more and some need less. Losing weight is about
> calories so watching your portion sizes of all foods is very
> important. If at all possible, try to get an appointment with a
> registered dietitian who will help you develop and individualized meal
> plan.
>
> ****************************
>
> Ann Albright: I can't tell you how much to eat because I don?t know
> other variables such as your age, activity level, whether you are
> trying to lose weight, and medications that you take. You can keep a
> food diary to see how much carbohydrate you are eating and then
> compare this to your blood glucose results to see if this if you are
> eating the right amount for you. Like the previous answer, I would
> encourage you to see a Registered Dietitian who can help you develop
> an individualized meal plan.
>
> **********************************
>
> Ann Albright: Managing diabetes is about finding the right balance
> between your food intake, exercise, and medication. I don't want to
> make a judgement about whether it is bad or good and what is the right
> amount of carbohydrate.
>
> It sounds like you have been working hard to get your blood glucose
> levels down. Because you are testing, I would also suggest keeping a
> food log of everything you eat. You can use your food and bg log to
> find out the right answer for you. Ask yourself questions such as, are
> my bg levels better if I eat more or less of the carbohydrate? Do I
> have a low blood glucose rection if I don't eat all the carbs in your
> meal plan. This can help you to identify changes you may need to make
> to how you are eating.
>
> ****************************************
>
> Ann Albright: In general, physical activity lowers blood glucose
> levels. But some people have higher blood glucose levels after
> exercise because of their body's hormone response and the availability
> of insulin. I would suggest you talk to your health care provider.
> Depending on the type of medicine you take, you may need a change to
> help lower your blood glucose levels after exercise.
>
> ****************************************
>
> Ann Albright: The American Diabetes Association works in many ways to
> serve people with diabetes and their families. We have a network of
> almost 450,000 people across the country. Our call center answered
> requests for information about diabetes from over 350,000 people over
> the past year and this Web site, diabetes.org, receives over 14
> million visitors per year.
>
> ****************************************
>
> Ann Albright: There are ways to get yourself started with carbohydrate
> counting. First, get familiar with the foods containing carbohydrate -
> fruit, vegetables, starches and grains, sweets and dairy foods like
> milk and yogurt. You can get familiar with the amounts of carbohydrate
> in foods by reading labels. Be sure to look at the serving size so you
> can put the amount of total carbohydrate listed into perspective. To
> get started, look at the total carbohydrate on the labels. Many
> educators suggest starting with about 45 grams of carbohydrate at a
> meal. This may be too much or not enough carbohydrate for you
> depending on your age, sex, activity level and medicines. Check your
> blood glucose to see how you are doing with this much carbohydrate and
> then take your results with you to your next visit. Your health care
> provider may be able to make some suggestions. If you have the
> opportunity, I would recommend you try to work with a Registered
> Dietitian familiar and experienced with diabetes meal planning. They
> can help you develop a plan for you that will help with blood glucose
> management and also preventing complications such as heart disease by
> your food choices.
>
> ******************************************
>
> Ann Albright: It sounds like you BG levels after you eat (150) are
> actually quite good. Without knowing your medical history, what you
> eat and how you exercise, I can't really answer your question. You may
> need a little tweak in your medicine or diet. I would suggest you take
> a food diary and your blood glucose records into your next appointment
> so you can trouble shoot with your health care provider.
>
> One thing I did want to comment on though is the feeling that you are
> doing something wrong. It's easy to feel this way when trying to live
> with diabetes. Sometimes when doing everything right, the numbers
> arent what we'd like to see. Don't get discouraged. Diabetes is a
> disease that requires daly management. Make sure you have some coping
> strategies to manage the daily demands of diabetes. Some common
> strategies are having someone you can talk to and favorite hobbies you
> enjoy doing.
>
> *****************************************
>
> Ann Albright: I'm glad you brought this issue up. You are correct in
> your understanding of the glycemic index. It is a measure of how
> quickly a food raises blood glucose levels in comparison to white
> bread or glucose. It can be useful in meal planning and glucose
> control but there are other tools to use like carb-counting. It has
> not been shown to be as useful for weight loss. In general, the main
> determinant of after meal blood glucose levels is the amount of
> carbohydrate. That being said, there is a difference in how quickly
> blood glucose rises in response to different types of carbohydrates.
> Individuals can also have varying response to different foods. And
> this response can vary depending on the way a food was cooked, what
> you eat with it and many other factors. It would be easier if the
> healthiest foods all had low GI, but that is not always the case. The
> example you brought up one of the few exceptions in the category of
> grains - brown rice vs. white rice. There is no doubt that whole
> grains provide more nutrients than those that are refined. In most
> cases, whole grains have a lower glycemic index so the choice is
> clear. In the case of brown rice, the GI of the two types you
> mentioned is similar, so I would still recommend the brown rice. If
> you don't like brown rice, than of the white rice, using converted
> white rice makes sense.
>
> ******************************************
>
> Ann Albright: This certainly is challenging. Exercise brings blood
> glucose down for most people so incorporating physical activity every
> day should help. I would suggest you keep track of your blood glucose
> levels, what you eat and when you exercise. Take your records into
> your next appointment so your health care team can provide some
> specific suggestions. If your blood glucose is consistently high, you
> definitely need a change in your management plan including some type
> of medication.
>
> ********************************************
>
> Ann Albright: I'd like to remind everyone that if you haven't met with
> a registered dietitian and you're able to do so, it will be very
> beneficial.
>
> An RD can help you to develop an individualized plan for eating that
> will match your lifestyle, medication, food preferences, and exercise
> so that you can optimize your diabetes management and enjoy food.
>

Kurt I just want to thank you for taking the time to write this up.

Speaking of Up.

Up Up and Away From My Computer.


--
Tom

www.TomsDiabeticDiary.com

Chat in peace with other diabetes at the American Diabetes Associations Web
Site.
http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/...esz&redirCnt=1

Information You Can "Trust" From Your American Diabetes Association
www.diabetes.org

Information on Specific Types of Fat.
http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-an...cific-fats.jsp

"Jackie Patti" <jpatti@ccil.org> wrote in message
news:4756de06$0$2780$470ef3ce@news.pa.net...
> Freckles wrote:
>
>> Her reply to the A1c question was accurate enough and similar to how just
>> about the way everyone else explains it. She could have been more
>> detailed, but why should she?
>
> I shall rant now.
>
> Because being inaccurate is JUST NOT NECESSARY.

She was not wrong, just very brief and to the point.

>
> What is wrong with saying... Sugars in your blood react with proteins in
> your blood; red blood cells contain a protein called hemoglobin that
> reacts with sugar; red blood cells last about 90 days before they're
> replaced, so measuring the amount of hemoglobin that has reacted with
> sugar is a rough estimate of your blood sugar control over the past few
> months.

Nothing is wrong with what you have written in the above paragraph, but it
is just more information than I, and I think most diabetics, care or need to
know.

>
> I can say the same in even littler words if necessary; I could explain
> this to a small child if one asked me.

Great, I like simple words. When I was first promoted into management my
boss admonished me for using "big" words. He said it was a sign of an
inflated ego and using them would offended many of my peers and co-workers.

>
> I HATE when educators give wrong answers to "simplify" things. They are
> only simplifying for themselves because they're too damned lazy to
> translate from technical terms to the language of their audience.

If one knowingly gives an incorrect answer, than I agree, I don't like that
either, but if they are giving an accurate, but simplified answer they
should be applauded for that. Too many people enjoy using many words, and
large words just in order to appear intelligent and important. Generally, I
have found the reverse to be true.

>
> I can't even TELL you how often students in freshman chemistry can't
> distinguish between mass, weight and density. It drove me NUTS. It'd
> have been easier to teach them had they *no* idea what those terms mean
> than an incorrect idea as you have to first erase wrong ideas they've had
> for years that are *stuck* in their brains.

I guess that might be disturbing, but what bothers me, and it happens over
and over again, is when supposedly educated people use TO when the mean TOO
or TWO, or use OUR when the mean OR or ARE, or use THEIR for THERE...and so
on and on.

>
> I *hated* this sort of thing when my daughter was in school, and saw it
> over and over again, that they "simplify" ideas until they're just flatout
> wrong. I spent half my time when helping her with homework explaining the
> *real* science instead of the watered-down, incorrect crap they were
> feeding her.

My daughter's grade school teacher sent me a note asking me to stop helping
my daughter with her homework, she said at my daughter's age mistakes were
expected and accepted, and that was how children learned, by making and
correcting their own mistakes. I relucently stopped helping Michele, and she
went on to become a straight A student.

>
> I managed to explain X and Y chromosomes to a 5 year old asking me how you
> got boy babies vs. girl babies, without ever using the words
> "chromosomes", "ovum" or "sperm" even once. The concept isn't too complex
> for a 5-year-old, just the vocabulary is.

I left such conversations up to my wife.

>
> Hell, I explained how to isolate DNA from Dictyostelium discoideum to her
> at the same age - and why I was doing it. She did kinda freak when we go
> to the step of lysing the cells, begging me not to "kill" them. I
> didn't find it hard to explain that scratching your arm kills single-cell
> organisms too, to put her misunderstanding of me as a slime mold murdered
> into appropriate context.

You left me there!

>
> Most people are not born stupid. Even if they don't have the right
> vocabulary, you can explain in smaller words. People *become* stupid when
> their brains are filled with crap by teachers who "simplify" things until
> they're untrue.

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

>
> It takes a bit of work to "translate" from a more advanced vocabuulary to
> a simpler one, but laziness on the part of the teacher does not excuse
> teaching stupidity.

Pardon me, but it seems this last paragraph contradicts the previous one,
besides
I never ran into that kind of problem with any of my teachers or professors.

>
> --
> http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:21:11 -0500, Jackie Patti <jpatti@ccil.org>
wrote:

>I HATE when educators give wrong answers to "simplify" things. They are
>only simplifying for themselves because they're too damned lazy to
>translate from technical terms to the language of their audience.

Absolutely. And assuming I'm thick as shit to boot. Grrrr.

So the ADA widen the bottom of the pyramid to include veggies
alongside all those starches. Whoopee...

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

"Jackie Patti" <jpatti@ccil.org> wrote in message
news:4756de06$0$2780$470ef3ce@news.pa.net...
> Freckles wrote:
>
>> Her reply to the A1c question was accurate enough and similar to how just
>> about the way everyone else explains it. She could have been more
>> detailed, but why should she?
>
> I shall rant now.
>
> Because being inaccurate is JUST NOT NECESSARY.
>
> What is wrong with saying... Sugars in your blood react with proteins in
> your blood; red blood cells contain a protein called hemoglobin that
> reacts with sugar; red blood cells last about 90 days before they're
> replaced, so measuring the amount of hemoglobin that has reacted with
> sugar is a rough estimate of your blood sugar control over the past few
> months.
>
> I can say the same in even littler words if necessary; I could explain
> this to a small child if one asked me.
>
> I HATE when educators give wrong answers to "simplify" things. They are
> only simplifying for themselves because they're too damned lazy to
> translate from technical terms to the language of their audience.
>
> I can't even TELL you how often students in freshman chemistry can't
> distinguish between mass, weight and density. It drove me NUTS. It'd
> have been easier to teach them had they *no* idea what those terms mean
> than an incorrect idea as you have to first erase wrong ideas they've had
> for years that are *stuck* in their brains.
>
> I *hated* this sort of thing when my daughter was in school, and saw it
> over and over again, that they "simplify" ideas until they're just flatout
> wrong. I spent half my time when helping her with homework explaining the
> *real* science instead of the watered-down, incorrect crap they were
> feeding her.
>
> I managed to explain X and Y chromosomes to a 5 year old asking me how you
> got boy babies vs. girl babies, without ever using the words
> "chromosomes", "ovum" or "sperm" even once. The concept isn't too complex
> for a 5-year-old, just the vocabulary is.
>
> Hell, I explained how to isolate DNA from Dictyostelium discoideum to her
> at the same age - and why I was doing it. She did kinda freak when we go
> to the step of lysing the cells, begging me not to "kill" them. I
> didn't find it hard to explain that scratching your arm kills single-cell
> organisms too, to put her misunderstanding of me as a slime mold murdered
> into appropriate context.
>
> Most people are not born stupid. Even if they don't have the right
> vocabulary, you can explain in smaller words. People *become* stupid when
> their brains are filled with crap by teachers who "simplify" things until
> they're untrue.
>
> It takes a bit of work to "translate" from a more advanced vocabuulary to
> a simpler one, but laziness on the part of the teacher does not excuse
> teaching stupidity.
>

That was brilliant, Jackie!


> http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:52:30 GMT, "Gantlet"
<Tom@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote:

>Kurt I just want to thank you for taking the time to write this up.
>
>Speaking of Up.
>
>Up Up and Away From My Computer.

Me too. Selective cut and paste can be really arduous
sometimes.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:53:10 -0500, "Freckles"
<puzzlement01@tx.rr.com> wrote:

>
>"Jackie Patti" <jpatti@ccil.org> wrote in message
>news:4756de06$0$2780$470ef3ce@news.pa.net...
>> Freckles wrote:
>>
>>> Her reply to the A1c question was accurate enough and similar to how just
>>> about the way everyone else explains it. She could have been more
>>> detailed, but why should she?
>>
>> I shall rant now.
>>
>> Because being inaccurate is JUST NOT NECESSARY.
>
>She was not wrong, just very brief and to the point.
>
HbA1c is related much more to the past two or three weeks
than it is to the past 3 or 4 months. That is a critical
inaccuracy. And it is not an average of anything, it is an
indicator.

>>
>> What is wrong with saying... Sugars in your blood react with proteins in
>> your blood; red blood cells contain a protein called hemoglobin that
>> reacts with sugar; red blood cells last about 90 days before they're
>> replaced, so measuring the amount of hemoglobin that has reacted with
>> sugar is a rough estimate of your blood sugar control over the past few
>> months.
>
>Nothing is wrong with what you have written in the above paragraph, but it
>is just more information than I, and I think most diabetics, care or need to
>know.
>
You can speak only for yourself there. Apart from newbies
here I read newbies on the ADA forum daily who express a
need to know much more than that. I send them here:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/diabetes/faq/part2/
It may need some minor up-dating, but that is by far the
clearest and most easily understandable explanation of HbA1c
for a patient I've seen anywhere - including the ADA,
Joslin, AACE and Mayo web-sites.

>>
>> I can say the same in even littler words if necessary; I could explain
>> this to a small child if one asked me.
>
>Great, I like simple words. When I was first promoted into management my
>boss admonished me for using "big" words. He said it was a sign of an
>inflated ego and using them would offended many of my peers and co-workers.
>
>>
>> I HATE when educators give wrong answers to "simplify" things. They are
>> only simplifying for themselves because they're too damned lazy to
>> translate from technical terms to the language of their audience.
>
>If one knowingly gives an incorrect answer, than I agree, I don't like that
>either, but if they are giving an accurate, but simplified answer they
>should be applauded for that.

I would hope she did not do the former, and she certainly
did not give the latter.
<snip>

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:21:11 -0500, Jackie Patti wrote
(in article <4756de06$0$2780$470ef3ce@news.pa.net>):

> Freckles wrote:
>
>> Her reply to the A1c question was accurate enough and similar to how just
>> about the way everyone else explains it. She could have been more detailed,
>> but why should she?
>
> I shall rant now.
>
> Because being inaccurate is JUST NOT NECESSARY.
>
> What is wrong with saying... Sugars in your blood react with proteins in
> your blood; red blood cells contain a protein called hemoglobin that
> reacts with sugar; red blood cells last about 90 days before they're
> replaced, so measuring the amount of hemoglobin that has reacted with
> sugar is a rough estimate of your blood sugar control over the past few
> months.
>
> I can say the same in even littler words if necessary; I could explain
> this to a small child if one asked me.
>
> I HATE when educators give wrong answers to "simplify" things. They are
> only simplifying for themselves because they're too damned lazy to
> translate from technical terms to the language of their audience.
>
> I can't even TELL you how often students in freshman chemistry can't
> distinguish between mass, weight and density. It drove me NUTS. It'd
> have been easier to teach them had they *no* idea what those terms mean
> than an incorrect idea as you have to first erase wrong ideas they've
> had for years that are *stuck* in their brains.
>
> I *hated* this sort of thing when my daughter was in school, and saw it
> over and over again, that they "simplify" ideas until they're just
> flatout wrong. I spent half my time when helping her with homework
> explaining the *real* science instead of the watered-down, incorrect
> crap they were feeding her.
>
> I managed to explain X and Y chromosomes to a 5 year old asking me how
> you got boy babies vs. girl babies, without ever using the words
> "chromosomes", "ovum" or "sperm" even once. The concept isn't too
> complex for a 5-year-old, just the vocabulary is.
>
> Hell, I explained how to isolate DNA from Dictyostelium discoideum to
> her at the same age - and why I was doing it. She did kinda freak when
> we go to the step of lysing the cells, begging me not to "kill" them.
> I didn't find it hard to explain that scratching your arm kills
> single-cell organisms too, to put her misunderstanding of me as a slime
> mold murdered into appropriate context.
>
> Most people are not born stupid. Even if they don't have the right
> vocabulary, you can explain in smaller words. People *become* stupid
> when their brains are filled with crap by teachers who "simplify" things
> until they're untrue.
>
> It takes a bit of work to "translate" from a more advanced vocabuulary
> to a simpler one, but laziness on the part of the teacher does not
> excuse teaching stupidity.
>
>

Hey Jackie Patti, could I have your autograph? As another retired science
subject teacher, I want to say that this is dead on. I am going to memorize
it. Thank you.

TaniO

"Alan S" <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ua8el31vc3hbmb3iu9jh9sovv4sa9o5fqj@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:53:10 -0500, "Freckles"
> <puzzlement01@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jackie Patti" <jpatti@ccil.org> wrote in message
>>news:4756de06$0$2780$470ef3ce@news.pa.net...
>>> Freckles wrote:
>>>
>>>> Her reply to the A1c question was accurate enough and similar to how
>>>> just
>>>> about the way everyone else explains it. She could have been more
>>>> detailed, but why should she?
>>>
>>> I shall rant now.
>>>
>>> Because being inaccurate is JUST NOT NECESSARY.
>>
>>She was not wrong, just very brief and to the point.
>>
> HbA1c is related much more to the past two or three weeks
> than it is to the past 3 or 4 months. That is a critical
> inaccuracy. And it is not an average of anything, it is an

The following sites disagree with your two or three weeks. Maybe you should
check them out before you say more.

By the way, if you thought you already knew the answer to your question, why
did you even bother asking it?

http://www.labtestsonline.org/unders.../a1c/test.html
http://www.diabetes.org/type-1-diabetes/a1c-test.jsp
http://www.diabetes.com/a1c.html
http://www.lifescan.com/diabetes/bloodglucose/a1c/





> indicator.
>
>>>
>>> What is wrong with saying... Sugars in your blood react with proteins in
>>> your blood; red blood cells contain a protein called hemoglobin that
>>> reacts with sugar; red blood cells last about 90 days before they're
>>> replaced, so measuring the amount of hemoglobin that has reacted with
>>> sugar is a rough estimate of your blood sugar control over the past few
>>> months.
>>
>>Nothing is wrong with what you have written in the above paragraph, but it
>>is just more information than I, and I think most diabetics, care or need
>>to
>>know.
>>
> You can speak only for yourself there. Apart from newbies
> here I read newbies on the ADA forum daily who express a
> need to know much more than that. I send them here:
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/diabetes/faq/part2/
> It may need some minor up-dating, but that is by far the
> clearest and most easily understandable explanation of HbA1c
> for a patient I've seen anywhere - including the ADA,
> Joslin, AACE and Mayo web-sites.
>
>>>
>>> I can say the same in even littler words if necessary; I could explain
>>> this to a small child if one asked me.
>>
>>Great, I like simple words. When I was first promoted into management my
>>boss admonished me for using "big" words. He said it was a sign of an
>>inflated ego and using them would offended many of my peers and
>>co-workers.
>>
>>>
>>> I HATE when educators give wrong answers to "simplify" things. They are
>>> only simplifying for themselves because they're too damned lazy to
>>> translate from technical terms to the language of their audience.
>>
>>If one knowingly gives an incorrect answer, than I agree, I don't like
>>that
>>either, but if they are giving an accurate, but simplified answer they
>>should be applauded for that.
>
> I would hope she did not do the former, and she certainly
> did not give the latter.
> <snip>
>
> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
> Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
> --
> http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

Freckles wrote:
> "Jackie Patti" <jpatti@ccil.org> wrote in message
> news:4756de06$0$2780$470ef3ce@news.pa.net...
>> Because being inaccurate is JUST NOT NECESSARY.
>
> She was not wrong, just very brief and to the point.

Saying it's a measure of average bg for the past few months *is* wrong.
It's *indicative* of average bg control, but it does not measure that.


>> What is wrong with saying... Sugars in your blood react with proteins in
>> your blood; red blood cells contain a protein called hemoglobin that
>> reacts with sugar; red blood cells last about 90 days before they're
>> replaced, so measuring the amount of hemoglobin that has reacted with
>> sugar is a rough estimate of your blood sugar control over the past few
>> months.
>
> Nothing is wrong with what you have written in the above paragraph, but it
> is just more information than I, and I think most diabetics, care or need to
> know.

I have never assumed when someone asks me a question that they don't
really want the answer.

I guess they have to tell me to shut up if it's too much information.


>> I HATE when educators give wrong answers to "simplify" things. They are
>> only simplifying for themselves because they're too damned lazy to
>> translate from technical terms to the language of their audience.
>
> If one knowingly gives an incorrect answer, than I agree, I don't like that
> either, but if they are giving an accurate, but simplified answer they
> should be applauded for that. Too many people enjoy using many words, and
> large words just in order to appear intelligent and important. Generally, I
> have found the reverse to be true.

I'm really not addressing words so much as *concepts*. Even very
complex concepts can be explained using small words. It might take
*more* words, but you can retain accuracy rather than putting inaccurate
ideas into people's heads.


>> I can't even TELL you how often students in freshman chemistry can't
>> distinguish between mass, weight and density. It drove me NUTS. It'd
>> have been easier to teach them had they *no* idea what those terms mean
>> than an incorrect idea as you have to first erase wrong ideas they've had
>> for years that are *stuck* in their brains.
>
> I guess that might be disturbing, but what bothers me, and it happens over
> and over again, is when supposedly educated people use TO when the mean TOO
> or TWO, or use OUR when the mean OR or ARE, or use THEIR for THERE...and so
> on and on.

People have rarely been *taught* to use incorrect English though; that's
usually a stupidity they achieve all on their own.


>> I *hated* this sort of thing when my daughter was in school, and saw it
>> over and over again, that they "simplify" ideas until they're just flatout
>> wrong. I spent half my time when helping her with homework explaining the
>> *real* science instead of the watered-down, incorrect crap they were
>> feeding her.
>
> My daughter's grade school teacher sent me a note asking me to stop helping
> my daughter with her homework, she said at my daughter's age mistakes were
> expected and accepted, and that was how children learned, by making and
> correcting their own mistakes. I relucently stopped helping Michele, and she
> went on to become a straight A student.

I am glad I helped as I caught the *exact* error discussed above, misuse
of the terms mass, weight and density, in a homework experiment in which
they were to float various things in water to see which "weighed" more.

I've seen many other errors also - the ones I caught were usually
science related as that's my background.


>> I managed to explain X and Y chromosomes to a 5 year old asking me how you
>> got boy babies vs. girl babies, without ever using the words
>> "chromosomes", "ovum" or "sperm" even once. The concept isn't too complex
>> for a 5-year-old, just the vocabulary is.
>
> I left such conversations up to my wife.

This wasn't the sex convo, just a general how do you get a boy baby or a
girl baby