Aerobic Power and aging

G'day G'day Folks,

Most posters are aware that T2 diabetes accelerates biological
aging. Fortunately there appears to be something one can do to offset
biological aging. Read about it in this Medscape article.
Medscape requires subscription but it is free.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/573636_print

Best wishes,
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

On Thu, 01 May 2008 11:20:32 +1200, Quentin Grady
<quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>
>G'day G'day Folks,
>
> Most posters are aware that T2 diabetes accelerates biological
>aging. Fortunately there appears to be something one can do to offset
>biological aging. Read about it in this Medscape article.
>Medscape requires subscription but it is free.
>
>http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/573636_print

I read this kind of claim in weight-training books for women around my
own dx. It's what caused me to take up resistance training. The
benefits are undeniable for me now, at 47 - and even should I decide
to stop tomorrow, they'll continue well into old age. The best bit is
how progressive they can be, it's possible to start and improve from
ANY level.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

On Thu, 01 May 2008 09:04:40 +0100, Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 01 May 2008 11:20:32 +1200, Quentin Grady
><quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>
>>G'day G'day Folks,
>>
>> Most posters are aware that T2 diabetes accelerates biological
>>aging. Fortunately there appears to be something one can do to offset
>>biological aging. Read about it in this Medscape article.
>>Medscape requires subscription but it is free.
>>
>>http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/573636_print
>
>I read this kind of claim in weight-training books for women around my
>own dx. It's what caused me to take up resistance training.

G'day G'day Nicky,

It is amazing how important it is what we read at the time we are
diagnosed. It is a time when we disparately are seeking some salvation
from the situation we find ourselves in and a time when we are ready
to take action. At other times in our lives what we read is likely to
be only a matter of passing interest. You know the sort of thing
which we might mention to friends and "forget" when they change the
subject to something of greater interest to them. Diagnosis changes
all of that. Suddenly the interest is personal.

>The
>benefits are undeniable for me now, at 47 - and even should I decide
>to stop tomorrow, they'll continue well into old age.

Absolutely.

>The best bit is how progressive they can be, it's possible to start and improve from
>ANY level.

Indeed.

>Nicky.

You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of
oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed
staring at me making notes as assessed my biological age. The younger
I was according to their calculations the more vigorous the treatment
option. With a bit of reverse engineering I figured they had given me
eight years youthwise thanks to my feisty attitude. It was something
I'd never thought about. As you can imagine it is something that I
never leave behind. The point is you never know when someone is going
to be assessing your biological age for some serious purpose. Sort of
like wearing clean underwear when going to town just in case you end
up in hospital. Like a good scout you have to be prepared. <grin>
Eight years for attitude.

Best wishes,
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

On Thu, 01 May 2008 20:55:07 +1200, Quentin Grady
<quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of
>oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed
>staring at me making notes as assessed my biological age. The younger
>I was according to their calculations the more vigorous the treatment
>option. With a bit of reverse engineering I figured they had given me
>eight years youthwise thanks to my feisty attitude.

Heh - what an incentive I like your attitude... I also remember
what you said about trusting their decisions, as mutual
stress-reducing. My Dad approaches his medical issues by telling
dreadful jokes - maybe I'll stop apologising for him, it might work :P

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

On Thu, 01 May 2008 12:57:45 +0100, Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 01 May 2008 20:55:07 +1200, Quentin Grady
><quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of
>>oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed
>>staring at me making notes as assessed my biological age. The younger
>>I was according to their calculations the more vigorous the treatment
>>option. With a bit of reverse engineering I figured they had given me
>>eight years youthwise thanks to my feisty attitude.
>
>Heh - what an incentive I like your attitude... I also remember
>what you said about trusting their decisions, as mutual
>stress-reducing. My Dad approaches his medical issues by telling
>dreadful jokes - maybe I'll stop apologising for him, it might work :P

Hey. I like that. We all cope with stress in different ways.

Telling dreadful jokes is a skill I've never acquired. I'm not good
at telling jokes anyway. So good on him. And good on you for
recognising their importance to him and accepting them.

Well done.

Best wishes,
>Nicky.
>T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
>D&E, 100ug thyroxine
>Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

On Thu, 01 May 2008 09:04:40 +0100, Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 01 May 2008 11:20:32 +1200, Quentin Grady
><quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>
>>G'day G'day Folks,
>>
>> Most posters are aware that T2 diabetes accelerates biological
>>aging. Fortunately there appears to be something one can do to offset
>>biological aging. Read about it in this Medscape article.
>>Medscape requires subscription but it is free.
>>
>>http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/573636_print
>
>I read this kind of claim in weight-training books for women around my
>own dx. It's what caused me to take up resistance training. The
>benefits are undeniable for me now, at 47 - and even should I decide
>to stop tomorrow, they'll continue well into old age. The best bit is
>how progressive they can be, it's possible to start and improve from
>ANY level.
>
>Nicky.
>T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
>D&E, 100ug thyroxine
>Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

I just turned 66. Seven months ago I started working with a personal
trainer doing weight training. He had me start doing regular cardio
also. I have lost 70 pounds. I had both knees replaced in 2003.
Tuesday I had my five year check up. I can now bend both knees to
125°. My previous best was 113°. I can also roll up from lying on my
back to a sitting position without pulling myself up at all. I feel
better, move better, and can do much, much more than I have been able
to do in the last 10-15 years. I am a very happy camper. BTW, my BG
averages are 95-97. Training certainly does work.
--
BettyB -- www.flamingo-code.com
"I have noticed even people who claim everything is
predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it,
look before they cross the road." - Stephen Hawking

On Thu, 01 May 2008 21:43:15 -0700, BettyB <bettyb1656@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>I just turned 66. Seven months ago I started working with a personal
>trainer doing weight training. He had me start doing regular cardio
>also. I have lost 70 pounds. I had both knees replaced in 2003.
>Tuesday I had my five year check up. I can now bend both knees to
>125°. My previous best was 113°. I can also roll up from lying on my
>back to a sitting position without pulling myself up at all. I feel
>better, move better, and can do much, much more than I have been able
>to do in the last 10-15 years. I am a very happy camper. BTW, my BG
>averages are 95-97. Training certainly does work.

Kudos to you for doing the work - what a great success story!

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

BettyB <bettyb1656@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 01 May 2008 09:04:40 +0100, Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com>
> wrote:

>>On Thu, 01 May 2008 11:20:32 +1200, Quentin Grady
>><quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>G'day G'day Folks,
>>>
>>> Most posters are aware that T2 diabetes accelerates biological
>>>aging. Fortunately there appears to be something one can do to offset
>>>biological aging. Read about it in this Medscape article.
>>>Medscape requires subscription but it is free.
>>>
>>>http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/573636_print
>>
>>I read this kind of claim in weight-training books for women around my
>>own dx. It's what caused me to take up resistance training. The
>>benefits are undeniable for me now, at 47 - and even should I decide
>>to stop tomorrow, they'll continue well into old age. The best bit is
>>how progressive they can be, it's possible to start and improve from
>>ANY level.
>>
>>Nicky.
>>T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
>>D&E, 100ug thyroxine
>>Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

> I just turned 66. Seven months ago I started working with a personal
> trainer doing weight training. He had me start doing regular cardio
> also. I have lost 70 pounds. I had both knees replaced in 2003.
> Tuesday I had my five year check up. I can now bend both knees to
> 125?. My previous best was 113?. I can also roll up from lying on my
> back to a sitting position without pulling myself up at all. I feel
> better, move better, and can do much, much more than I have been able
> to do in the last 10-15 years. I am a very happy camper. BTW, my BG
> averages are 95-97. Training certainly does work.

I have long suspected, simply from observing the differences in the
ways my friends and relatives have aged, that many of the usual
markers of age such as reduced aerobic capacity, reduced strength,
lost muscle mass, bone, joint and muscle pains, etc., are not so much
some kind of inevitable independent time-related set of degenerations,
but a dynamic inter-related whole in which when one thing starts
giving you a few problems, it causes you to slow down a bit and sit
around a bit more. After a while your body adapts to the decreased
activity and not only can you no longer do what you used to be able to
do, but some of what you do occasionally now causes you aches, pains,
or fatigue. So you slow down and sit around a bit more.

In that way a synergistic positive feedback process of general
degeneration ends up producing the symptoms which are usually
attributed to aging.

In my last years at work I suffered a heart attack plus undiagnosed T2
diabetes. Trying to cope with that I overworked and under-exercised
and became rather unfit and started putting on weight. Which made me
increasingly disinclined to take exercise because it was getting
progressively more of an effort.

Soon after discovering I was diabetic I decided to retire in order to
try to rebuild my health. At age 62 I was told by various docs that
the best I could expect at my age from exercise was to slow down, and
possibly arrest for a while, the inevitable loss of strength etc. due
to aging.

In order to test this unwelcome hypothesis I started a programme of
experimental increase of arm strength. I discovered to my dismay that
I couldn't even do one pullup, all I could do was hang twitching from
a pull up bar. However several months later I was doing ten pullups so
enthusiastically that I damaged my elbows. So not only could I still
increase strength a lot, I could do it so fast I could injure myself.

I next wondered if simply pushing myself to take advantage of exercise
opportunities in daily life would get me into a positive feedback
virtuous cycle of getting stronger and fitter. Doing things like
walking up stairs instead of taking elevators. Cycling and walking
instead of using the infernal combustion engine. Doing garden and
house DIY work. And so on. Plus a much milder programme of occasional
irregular pullups and weight lifting.

Seems to have worked. Two years later I can walk about twice as far
carrying about three times the weight as I could when diagnosed before
getting tired, and I recover from exhausting myself with a long
physically demanding day at least twice as fast.

If I find I'm losing a useful physical ability I try and work out a
way of building specific work for it into my daily routine. For
example I noticed it was getting harder for me to get up from the
floor. Instead of being able to bounce up as I used to I was starting
to struggle up stage by stage like an old person. First get onto the
knees. Then get one foot on the floor. Help the old legs and balance
by pushing down on the knee with one arm and pulling up on something
with the other. Heave! You know how it goes :-)

So I started lying on the floor to watch TV instead of sitting on the
sofa, That meant whenever I got up I was forced to get up from right
down on the floor. As I got better at it I tried to do it more quickly
and elegantly. After several months I became able to rock backwards
and use the momentum to roll forwards and rise up onto my feet in one
quick movement without touching anything with my hands. So I then
started trying to do it slowly and smoothly, which takes more strength
and balance. Which I can now do.

As an unexpected side effect of doing that I've lost the slight
dizziness I used to get when I got up too quickly. It was worst in the
morning. If I got up out of bed onto my feet too quickly I was in
danger of falling due to dizziness. I had to sit on the edge of the
bed for a few moments before standing up.

Now I find myself sometimes bouncing out of bed straight onto my feet
simply because I feel like it, and without the slightest trace of
dizziness.

At a rough guess I've got back to the general physical fitness I had
about twelve years ago.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

On 2 May 2008 10:52:48 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
wrote:

>I have long suspected, simply from observing the differences in the
>ways my friends and relatives have aged, that many of the usual
>markers of age such as reduced aerobic capacity, reduced strength,
>lost muscle mass, bone, joint and muscle pains, etc., are not so much
>some kind of inevitable independent time-related set of degenerations,
>but a dynamic inter-related whole in which when one thing starts
>giving you a few problems, it causes you to slow down a bit and sit
>around a bit more. After a while your body adapts to the decreased
>activity and not only can you no longer do what you used to be able to
>do, but some of what you do occasionally now causes you aches, pains,
>or fatigue. So you slow down and sit around a bit more.

<how to sort these issues snipped>

>At a rough guess I've got back to the general physical fitness I had
>about twelve years ago.

And so the next time the doctor tells you "It's to be expected at your
age" - remember he's talking about the other half of the bell curve.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:nsbj14hbhgvhuu0phsh2uobl6fa0b83clb@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 01 May 2008 20:55:07 +1200, Quentin Grady
> <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of
>>oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed
>>staring at me making notes as assessed my biological age. The younger
>>I was according to their calculations the more vigorous the treatment
>>option. With a bit of reverse engineering I figured they had given me
>>eight years youthwise thanks to my feisty attitude.
>
> Heh - what an incentive I like your attitude... I also remember
> what you said about trusting their decisions, as mutual
> stress-reducing. My Dad approaches his medical issues by telling
> dreadful jokes - maybe I'll stop apologising for him, it might work :P
>
> Nicky.
> T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
> Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

I expect your dad is well-liked by his medical caretakers, Nicky. :-)

When I was a lab tech at a small hospital, a man who had been in several
times before was brought to the ER with chest pain. As the EMT crew was
preparing to move him from the ambulance gurney to an ER bed, he rolled over
making to reach in his back pocket, and said, "Just a second, I've got to
get this bottle of viagra out of my pocket." I imagine the expression on
our faces was priceless. The patient burst out laughing. The end result
was that it made the patient better able to cope with what was no doubt an
uncomfortable and frightening situation, and also lessened the tension for
the ER staff. Never underestimate the power of feisty-ness!
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5

On Fri, 2 May 2008 09:50:19 -0700, "Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com>
wrote:

>
>"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
>news:nsbj14hbhgvhuu0phsh2uobl6fa0b83clb@4ax.com.. .
>> On Thu, 01 May 2008 20:55:07 +1200, Quentin Grady
>> <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>>>You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of
>>>oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed
>>>staring at me making notes as assessed my biological age. The younger
>>>I was according to their calculations the more vigorous the treatment
>>>option. With a bit of reverse engineering I figured they had given me
>>>eight years youthwise thanks to my feisty attitude.
>>
>> Heh - what an incentive I like your attitude... I also remember
>> what you said about trusting their decisions, as mutual
>> stress-reducing. My Dad approaches his medical issues by telling
>> dreadful jokes - maybe I'll stop apologising for him, it might work :P
>>
>> Nicky.
>> T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
>> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
>> Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25
>
>I expect your dad is well-liked by his medical caretakers, Nicky. :-)
>
>When I was a lab tech at a small hospital, a man who had been in several
>times before was brought to the ER with chest pain. As the EMT crew was
>preparing to move him from the ambulance gurney to an ER bed, he rolled over
>making to reach in his back pocket, and said, "Just a second, I've got to
>get this bottle of viagra out of my pocket." I imagine the expression on
>our faces was priceless. The patient burst out laughing. The end result
>was that it made the patient better able to cope with what was no doubt an
>uncomfortable and frightening situation, and also lessened the tension for
>the ER staff. Never underestimate the power of feisty-ness!

hehehe!

When the anesthetist andavnced on me with a needle and said

"Just a little prick!"

I said "As long as it's not a big prick I don't mind"

"Trinkwasser" <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:d1um14197pmrqk9at974tg8f82jjnbe61n@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 2 May 2008 09:50:19 -0700, "Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
>>news:nsbj14hbhgvhuu0phsh2uobl6fa0b83clb@4ax.com. ..
>>> On Thu, 01 May 2008 20:55:07 +1200, Quentin Grady
>>> <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>>You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of
>>>>oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed
>>>>staring at me making notes as assessed my biological age. The younger
>>>>I was according to their calculations the more vigorous the treatment
>>>>option. With a bit of reverse engineering I figured they had given me
>>>>eight years youthwise thanks to my feisty attitude.
>>>
>>> Heh - what an incentive I like your attitude... I also remember
>>> what you said about trusting their decisions, as mutual
>>> stress-reducing. My Dad approaches his medical issues by telling
>>> dreadful jokes - maybe I'll stop apologising for him, it might work :P
>>>
>>> Nicky.
>>> T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
>>> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
>>> Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25
>>
>>I expect your dad is well-liked by his medical caretakers, Nicky. :-)
>>
>>When I was a lab tech at a small hospital, a man who had been in several
>>times before was brought to the ER with chest pain. As the EMT crew was
>>preparing to move him from the ambulance gurney to an ER bed, he rolled
>>over
>>making to reach in his back pocket, and said, "Just a second, I've got to
>>get this bottle of viagra out of my pocket." I imagine the expression on
>>our faces was priceless. The patient burst out laughing. The end result
>>was that it made the patient better able to cope with what was no doubt an
>>uncomfortable and frightening situation, and also lessened the tension for
>>the ER staff. Never underestimate the power of feisty-ness!
>
> hehehe!
>
> When the anesthetist andavnced on me with a needle and said
>
> "Just a little prick!"
>
> I said "As long as it's not a big prick I don't mind"

LOL!
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5

On Fri, 02 May 2008 21:24:10 +0100, Trinkwasser posted:

>On Fri, 2 May 2008 09:50:19 -0700, "Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
>>news:nsbj14hbhgvhuu0phsh2uobl6fa0b83clb@4ax.com. ..
>>> On Thu, 01 May 2008 20:55:07 +1200, Quentin Grady
>>> <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>>You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of
>>>>oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed
>>>>staring at me making notes as assessed my biological age. The younger
>>>>I was according to their calculations the more vigorous the treatment
>>>>option. With a bit of reverse engineering I figured they had given me
>>>>eight years youthwise thanks to my feisty attitude.
>>>
>>> Heh - what an incentive I like your attitude... I also remember
>>> what you said about trusting their decisions, as mutual
>>> stress-reducing. My Dad approaches his medical issues by telling
>>> dreadful jokes - maybe I'll stop apologising for him, it might work :P
>>>
>>> Nicky.
>>> T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
>>> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
>>> Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25
>>
>>I expect your dad is well-liked by his medical caretakers, Nicky. :-)
>>
>>When I was a lab tech at a small hospital, a man who had been in several
>>times before was brought to the ER with chest pain. As the EMT crew was
>>preparing to move him from the ambulance gurney to an ER bed, he rolled over
>>making to reach in his back pocket, and said, "Just a second, I've got to
>>get this bottle of viagra out of my pocket." I imagine the expression on
>>our faces was priceless. The patient burst out laughing. The end result
>>was that it made the patient better able to cope with what was no doubt an
>>uncomfortable and frightening situation, and also lessened the tension for
>>the ER staff. Never underestimate the power of feisty-ness!
>
>hehehe!
>
>When the anesthetist andavnced on me with a needle and said
>
>"Just a little prick!"
>
>I said "As long as it's not a big prick I don't mind"

Doctor, making a house call to treat a teenage girl, puts on his
stethoscope, places the and on the girls chest and say "Big Breathes."
She says "I know, and I'm only thickthteen!"

--
Larry, T2, Saskatchewan, Canada.
DX 24 Aug 07. D&E
Metformin 2000mg, Ramipril, Simvastatin
Dx A1c 8.1 : Latest 5.1 (4 Mar 08)

On Fri, 02 May 2008 22:00:05 -0600, Oleg Lego posted:

>
>On Fri, 02 May 2008 21:24:10 +0100, Trinkwasser posted:
>
>>On Fri, 2 May 2008 09:50:19 -0700, "Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
>>>news:nsbj14hbhgvhuu0phsh2uobl6fa0b83clb@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Thu, 01 May 2008 20:55:07 +1200, Quentin Grady
>>>> <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>You remind me of the time when I was being assessed by a group of
>>>>>oncologists for a stem cell transplant. They gathered around my bed
>>>>>staring at me making notes as assessed my biological age. The younger
>>>>>I was according to their calculations the more vigorous the treatment
>>>>>option. With a bit of reverse engineering I figured they had given me
>>>>>eight years youthwise thanks to my feisty attitude.
>>>>
>>>> Heh - what an incentive I like your attitude... I also remember
>>>> what you said about trusting their decisions, as mutual
>>>> stress-reducing. My Dad approaches his medical issues by telling
>>>> dreadful jokes - maybe I'll stop apologising for him, it might work :P
>>>>
>>>> Nicky.
>>>> T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
>>>> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
>>>> Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25
>>>
>>>I expect your dad is well-liked by his medical caretakers, Nicky. :-)
>>>
>>>When I was a lab tech at a small hospital, a man who had been in several
>>>times before was brought to the ER with chest pain. As the EMT crew was
>>>preparing to move him from the ambulance gurney to an ER bed, he rolled over
>>>making to reach in his back pocket, and said, "Just a second, I've got to
>>>get this bottle of viagra out of my pocket." I imagine the expression on
>>>our faces was priceless. The patient burst out laughing. The end result
>>>was that it made the patient better able to cope with what was no doubt an
>>>uncomfortable and frightening situation, and also lessened the tension for
>>>the ER staff. Never underestimate the power of feisty-ness!
>>
>>hehehe!
>>
>>When the anesthetist andavnced on me with a needle and said
>>
>>"Just a little prick!"
>>
>>I said "As long as it's not a big prick I don't mind"
>
>Doctor, making a house call to treat a teenage girl, puts on his
>stethoscope, places the and on the girls chest and say "Big Breathes."
>She says "I know, and I'm only thickthteen!"

And _without_ the typos:

Doctor, making a house call to treat a teenage girl, puts on his
stethoscope, places the end on the girls chest and says "Big Breaths."

She says "I know, and I'm only thickthteen!"

--
Larry, T2, Saskatchewan, Canada.
DX 24 Aug 07. D&E
Metformin 2000mg, Ramipril, Simvastatin
Dx A1c 8.1 : Latest 5.1 (4 Mar 08)

BettyB quote:
> "I have noticed even people who claim everything is
> predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it,
> look before they cross the road." - Stephen Hawking

That's because they're predestined to look--
and you're predestined to notice.
:-)

--
Wes Groleau
"Beware the barrenness of a busy life."
-- George Verwer

On Sat, 03 May 2008 01:37:57 -0600, Oleg Lego <rat@atatatat.com>
wrote:

>>Doctor, making a house call to treat a teenage girl, puts on his
>>stethoscope, places the and on the girls chest and say "Big Breathes."
>>She says "I know, and I'm only thickthteen!"
>
>And _without_ the typos:
>
>Doctor, making a house call to treat a teenage girl, puts on his
>stethoscope, places the end on the girls chest and says "Big Breaths."
>
>She says "I know, and I'm only thickthteen!"

ROFL

ands what;s with thoise typos anyway, this is what my typing looks
like before I edit it. Plus I'm often doing letter pair reversals but
never the classic "teh"

On Fri, 02 May 2008 08:59:19 +0100, Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 01 May 2008 21:43:15 -0700, BettyB <bettyb1656@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I just turned 66. Seven months ago I started working with a personal
>>trainer doing weight training. He had me start doing regular cardio
>>also. I have lost 70 pounds. I had both knees replaced in 2003.
>>Tuesday I had my five year check up. I can now bend both knees to
>>125°. My previous best was 113°. I can also roll up from lying on my
>>back to a sitting position without pulling myself up at all. I feel
>>better, move better, and can do much, much more than I have been able
>>to do in the last 10-15 years. I am a very happy camper. BTW, my BG
>>averages are 95-97. Training certainly does work.
>
>Kudos to you for doing the work - what a great success story!
>
>Nicky.
>T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
>D&E, 100ug thyroxine
>Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

Thanks. I'm having a ball!
--
BettyB -- www.flamingo-code.com
"I have noticed even people who claim everything is
predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it,
look before they cross the road." - Stephen Hawking

G'day G'day Chris,

I read your post with a mixture of admiration and trepidation,

Admiration at what you had achieved and trepidation that you would do
yourself permanent damage. For that reason I decided to top post so
others could read your post and see if they share the feelings I felt.
Best wishes,
Quentin.


On 2 May 2008 10:52:48 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
wrote:

>BettyB <bettyb1656@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 01 May 2008 09:04:40 +0100, Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>>On Thu, 01 May 2008 11:20:32 +1200, Quentin Grady
>>><quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>G'day G'day Folks,
>>>>
>>>> Most posters are aware that T2 diabetes accelerates biological
>>>>aging. Fortunately there appears to be something one can do to offset
>>>>biological aging. Read about it in this Medscape article.
>>>>Medscape requires subscription but it is free.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/573636_print
>>>
>>>I read this kind of claim in weight-training books for women around my
>>>own dx. It's what caused me to take up resistance training. The
>>>benefits are undeniable for me now, at 47 - and even should I decide
>>>to stop tomorrow, they'll continue well into old age. The best bit is
>>>how progressive they can be, it's possible to start and improve from
>>>ANY level.
>>>
>>>Nicky.
>>>T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
>>>D&E, 100ug thyroxine
>>>Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25
>
>> I just turned 66. Seven months ago I started working with a personal
>> trainer doing weight training. He had me start doing regular cardio
>> also. I have lost 70 pounds. I had both knees replaced in 2003.
>> Tuesday I had my five year check up. I can now bend both knees to
>> 125?. My previous best was 113?. I can also roll up from lying on my
>> back to a sitting position without pulling myself up at all. I feel
>> better, move better, and can do much, much more than I have been able
>> to do in the last 10-15 years. I am a very happy camper. BTW, my BG
>> averages are 95-97. Training certainly does work.
>
>I have long suspected, simply from observing the differences in the
>ways my friends and relatives have aged, that many of the usual
>markers of age such as reduced aerobic capacity, reduced strength,
>lost muscle mass, bone, joint and muscle pains, etc., are not so much
>some kind of inevitable independent time-related set of degenerations,
>but a dynamic inter-related whole in which when one thing starts
>giving you a few problems, it causes you to slow down a bit and sit
>around a bit more. After a while your body adapts to the decreased
>activity and not only can you no longer do what you used to be able to
>do, but some of what you do occasionally now causes you aches, pains,
>or fatigue. So you slow down and sit around a bit more.
>
>In that way a synergistic positive feedback process of general
>degeneration ends up producing the symptoms which are usually
>attributed to aging.
>
>In my last years at work I suffered a heart attack plus undiagnosed T2
>diabetes. Trying to cope with that I overworked and under-exercised
>and became rather unfit and started putting on weight. Which made me
>increasingly disinclined to take exercise because it was getting
>progressively more of an effort.
>
>Soon after discovering I was diabetic I decided to retire in order to
>try to rebuild my health. At age 62 I was told by various docs that
>the best I could expect at my age from exercise was to slow down, and
>possibly arrest for a while, the inevitable loss of strength etc. due
>to aging.
>
>In order to test this unwelcome hypothesis I started a programme of
>experimental increase of arm strength. I discovered to my dismay that
>I couldn't even do one pullup, all I could do was hang twitching from
>a pull up bar. However several months later I was doing ten pullups so
>enthusiastically that I damaged my elbows. So not only could I still
>increase strength a lot, I could do it so fast I could injure myself.
>
>I next wondered if simply pushing myself to take advantage of exercise
>opportunities in daily life would get me into a positive feedback
>virtuous cycle of getting stronger and fitter. Doing things like
>walking up stairs instead of taking elevators. Cycling and walking
>instead of using the infernal combustion engine. Doing garden and
>house DIY work. And so on. Plus a much milder programme of occasional
>irregular pullups and weight lifting.
>
>Seems to have worked. Two years later I can walk about twice as far
>carrying about three times the weight as I could when diagnosed before
>getting tired, and I recover from exhausting myself with a long
>physically demanding day at least twice as fast.
>
>If I find I'm losing a useful physical ability I try and work out a
>way of building specific work for it into my daily routine. For
>example I noticed it was getting harder for me to get up from the
>floor. Instead of being able to bounce up as I used to I was starting
>to struggle up stage by stage like an old person. First get onto the
>knees. Then get one foot on the floor. Help the old legs and balance
>by pushing down on the knee with one arm and pulling up on something
>with the other. Heave! You know how it goes :-)
>
>So I started lying on the floor to watch TV instead of sitting on the
>sofa, That meant whenever I got up I was forced to get up from right
>down on the floor. As I got better at it I tried to do it more quickly
>and elegantly. After several months I became able to rock backwards
>and use the momentum to roll forwards and rise up onto my feet in one
>quick movement without touching anything with my hands. So I then
>started trying to do it slowly and smoothly, which takes more strength
>and balance. Which I can now do.
>
>As an unexpected side effect of doing that I've lost the slight
>dizziness I used to get when I got up too quickly. It was worst in the
>morning. If I got up out of bed onto my feet too quickly I was in
>danger of falling due to dizziness. I had to sit on the edge of the
>bed for a few moments before standing up.
>
>Now I find myself sometimes bouncing out of bed straight onto my feet
>simply because I feel like it, and without the slightest trace of
>dizziness.
>
>At a rough guess I've got back to the general physical fitness I had
>about twelve years ago.
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

On Fri, 02 May 2008 12:31:39 +0100, Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com>
wrote:

>And so the next time the doctor tells you "It's to be expected at your
>age" - remember he's talking about the other half of the bell curve.

I love it. It creates a wonderful mental picture to inspire a
positive feeling. Great. Thanks Nicky for such a creative mental
tool.

Best wishes,
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Quentin Grady <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

> G'day G'day Chris,

> I read your post with a mixture of admiration and trepidation,

> Admiration at what you had achieved and trepidation that you would do
> yourself permanent damage. For that reason I decided to top post so
> others could read your post and see if they share the feelings I felt.

Permanent damage? Does this relate to a comment you made in another
post about damage which I also found puzzling. You wrote:

"I've been reading Jenny's book including
her comments on exercise. She emphasizes that the most important
point is not to hurt yourself. T2s simply can't afford the permanent
injuries since T2 is for ever."

I don't understand why a permanent injury should be worse if you're a
diabetic. Of course if you've progressed in your diabetes to the point
where healing is difficult then injuries should be avoided, e.g. the
frequent advice to avoid cuts and punctures etc. to the feet. That
advice however only applies if you have difficulty in healing. I keep
an eye on how I heal from minor cuts and bruises and so far they're
healing well, so I'm taking no special precautions to avoid them. In
fact the minor injuries my hands sustain are a useful monitor on how
my healing is going. I'm rarely without a few scabs on my hands, and
so far so good.

I mentioned over exercising my arms and injuring my elbow
tendons. That was part of a deliberate experiment to see how fast I
could develop muscle strength. I knew I was risking tendon
damage. That's why I chose to do that experiment with my
arms. Recovering from that damage requires severe rest. I knew I could
rest my arms, whereas it would be much more difficult to rest my
legs. In other words I chose to risk a disabling injury in a part of
the body where the disabling would be tolerable. I also reasoned that
if I was still physiologically capable of developing muscle at that
rate then it was very likely that I was still capable of repairing
damaged tendon.

You are quite right in noticing that I'm taking risks. I guess I'm a
natural risk taker. I love gambling and winning! I do try however to
be an intelligent risk taker. I take precautions to minimise the
possible losses.

I have no doubt that the day will come when I will have to be careful
to avoid any injury. I'm glad to be able to say that that day has not
yet arrived :-)

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
: Quentin Grady <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

: > G'day G'day Chris,

: > I read your post with a mixture of admiration and trepidation,

: > Admiration at what you had achieved and trepidation that you would do
: > yourself permanent damage. For that reason I decided to top post so
: > others could read your post and see if they share the feelings I felt.

: Permanent damage? Does this relate to a comment you made in another
: post about damage which I also found puzzling. You wrote:

: "I've been reading Jenny's book including
: her comments on exercise. She emphasizes that the most important
: point is not to hurt yourself. T2s simply can't afford the permanent
: injuries since T2 is for ever."

: I don't understand why a permanent injury should be worse if you're a
: diabetic. Of course if you've progressed in your diabetes to the point
: where healing is difficult then injuries should be avoided, e.g. the
: frequent advice to avoid cuts and punctures etc. to the feet. That
: advice however only applies if you have difficulty in healing. I keep
: an eye on how I heal from minor cuts and bruises and so far they're
: healing well, so I'm taking no special precautions to avoid them. In
: fact the minor injuries my hands sustain are a useful monitor on how
: my healing is going. I'm rarely without a few scabs on my hands, and
: so far so good.

Chris,

If you do injury to your back , which seems to be my case as a result of
sitting weirdly while having a broken arm, you can find your exercise
limited for thr rest of your life. aybe that's what she is talking about.
Ijuries that limit walking or much other exercise.

Wendy

In article <689qvaF2rc88sU1@mid.individual.net>,
Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> Quentin Grady <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
> > G'day G'day Chris,
>
> > I read your post with a mixture of admiration and trepidation,
>
> > Admiration at what you had achieved and trepidation that you would do
> > yourself permanent damage. For that reason I decided to top post so
> > others could read your post and see if they share the feelings I felt.
>
> Permanent damage? Does this relate to a comment you made in another
> post about damage which I also found puzzling. You wrote:
>
> "I've been reading Jenny's book including
> her comments on exercise. She emphasizes that the most important
> point is not to hurt yourself. T2s simply can't afford the permanent
> injuries since T2 is for ever."

If your level of control crucially depends on a particular type and
amount of exercise, and you hurt yourself to the extent that you have to
cut back on your exercise, your control will suffer.

This is, in fact, why I'm so rigid with diet. I want to be able to
control my blood sugar with diet alone. Thus, if I can't exercise (or
work in the garden, or whatever physical activity exercise is a
substitute for), I should be able to maintain my control. I'm extremely
grateful that in the past year there hasn't been any vigorous activity
that I've wanted to and been unable to participate in (though I've
wished snow-shoveling wasn't so immediately neccessary!).

--
"[xxx] has very definite opinions, and does not suffer fools lightly.
This, apparently, upsets the fools."
---BB cuts to the pith of a flame-fest

W. Baker <wbaker@panix.com> wrote:
> Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> : Quentin Grady <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

> : > G'day G'day Chris,

> : > I read your post with a mixture of admiration and trepidation,

> : > Admiration at what you had achieved and trepidation that you would do
> : > yourself permanent damage. For that reason I decided to top post so
> : > others could read your post and see if they share the feelings I felt.

> : Permanent damage? Does this relate to a comment you made in another
> : post about damage which I also found puzzling. You wrote:

> : "I've been reading Jenny's book including
> : her comments on exercise. She emphasizes that the most important
> : point is not to hurt yourself. T2s simply can't afford the permanent
> : injuries since T2 is for ever."

> : I don't understand why a permanent injury should be worse if you're a
> : diabetic. Of course if you've progressed in your diabetes to the point
> : where healing is difficult then injuries should be avoided, e.g. the
> : frequent advice to avoid cuts and punctures etc. to the feet. That
> : advice however only applies if you have difficulty in healing. I keep
> : an eye on how I heal from minor cuts and bruises and so far they're
> : healing well, so I'm taking no special precautions to avoid them. In
> : fact the minor injuries my hands sustain are a useful monitor on how
> : my healing is going. I'm rarely without a few scabs on my hands, and
> : so far so good.

> Chris,

> If you do injury to your back , which seems to be my case as a result of
> sitting weirdly while having a broken arm, you can find your exercise
> limited for thr rest of your life. aybe that's what she is talking about.
> Ijuries that limit walking or much other exercise.

Decades ago I injured my back very severely, losing muscular control
of parts of my legs. I didn't like what doctors and consultants told
me about it, so I consulted quite a number. They all advised me that
without some slightly risky surgery to fuse the damaged parts I'd
suffer from a bad back for the rest of my life. I'd be able to get
around, probably without pain, but I'd have to be very careful. I'd
certainly never be able to run, dance, or hill walk, ever
again. Unless I opted for the surgery and it came out well. And
totally forget such lunatic activities as rock climbing and lifting
heavy furniture!

It took twelve years of a programme of carefully graded rest and
exercise to recover from that. To begin with I couldn't even walk
round the block without hurting my back. About half way round was all
I could manange, then I had to sit down and take a recovery break. It
was twelve years before I could cycle over a cobbled street without
the jolting causing me considerable pain. Which in much cobbled and
pot-holed Edinburgh meant I couldn't cycle at all.

The good news is that my back is now stronger and more trouble free
than most of my age. I can run, dance, and cycle. I even rock climb
and shift heavy furniture.

My spine was X-rayed a few years ago to check for possible ankylosing
spondilitis. Not only was there none, but the consultant said there
was a lot of very ancient damage in my lower back which now looked very
well healed and knitted over. He said if he hadn't seen me walk in and
stand beside him he would have sworn he was looking at the X-ray of
the back of a wheelchair case. He'd never seen that much damage before
in someone who could walk.

As a result of that injury, and learning how to recover from it, I'm
now *very* *very* careful with my back. But that doesn't mean
molly-coddling it. It means making sure by means of exercise that it's
strong enough to take the punishment I like to give it. But punishment
doesn't mean pain. I've learned that it is very important to explore
every little twinge and ache in my muscles and joints, and I back off
immediately I suspect an injury which exercise is exacerbating.

The lessons I learned about recovery from injury there have stood me
in good stead, because I later broke a wrist and hand rather badly. I
was told I'd never recover full movement in that wrist. 60% to 70% was
the best I could hope for. But by means of manipulations and exercises
which the doctors said would do no good at all I recovered full
movement.

I do very well understand that a reasonable amount of fairly regular
walking is now essential to my continued health. That's why I chose to
do my extreme and possibly injurious experiment with my arms. I know
that I can keep walking with damaged arms. It took a year of graded
exercises, but my arms have now recovered, and my joints and tendons
are now stronger than before. And the lessons I learned from that I
can now apply to legs and other larger more important muscles and
joints, which are too important to take risks with.

I'm certainly not recommending that others do as I do. Very dangerous
for the unskilled. But I think I've earned the right to raise a
sceptical eyebrow when a doctor tells me I can't do something :-)

I know age is going to kill me in the end. But I'm not going down
without a damn good fight :-) One thing I've learned is that
hopelessness is a killer. It's *very* important to hang on to hope.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Chris Malcolm said...

> I know age is going to kill me in the end.


Chris,

Or, it could be a bolt of lightning that strikes you as you're rejoicing
your hole in one! That's how I'd like to go, anyway!

I broke my lower leg in two places back on March 10th. I didn't know it
until two days later when the pain became unbearable. The hospital put on a
cast and a leg splint and I got crutches and 5 days of a most excellent
pain-killer (percoset)! I stayed in bed for most of six weeks and hobbled
around (ask me if I hate stairs!). I did adopt an aggressive calcium &
vitamin D supplement therapy and today I only get a "friendly reminder"
dull ache once in awhile. I still tenderfoot around out of habit.

Looking forward to my 4.6 mile daily walk in the park real soon. Note to
self: buy new sneakers!

Stay well,

Andy

Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> W. Baker <wbaker@panix.com> wrote:
> > Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> > : Quentin Grady <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
[ . . . ]
> I know age is going to kill me in the end. But I'm not going down
> without a damn good fight :-) One thing I've learned is that
> hopelessness is a killer. It's *very* important to hang on to hope.

Hi Chris. Your descriptions of your experiences certainly prove how
valuable a good attitude and well thought out attack can work. Most
admirable.

Yes. No one has gotten out of this world alive, but as you say, "Hang in
there 'til the end!" Lang may yer lums reek!

BTW I'm a Yank supporter of Auld Reekie's Hibernian Football team. ;-)

Take care.

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~

On 6 May 2008 01:35:38 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
wrote:

>Quentin Grady <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
>> G'day G'day Chris,
>
>> I read your post with a mixture of admiration and trepidation,
>
>> Admiration at what you had achieved and trepidation that you would do
>> yourself permanent damage. For that reason I decided to top post so
>> others could read your post and see if they share the feelings I felt.
>
>Permanent damage? Does this relate to a comment you made in another
>post about damage which I also found puzzling. You wrote:
>
> "I've been reading Jenny's book including
> her comments on exercise. She emphasizes that the most important
> point is not to hurt yourself. T2s simply can't afford the permanent
> injuries since T2 is for ever."
>
>I don't understand why a permanent injury should be worse if you're a
>diabetic.

T2 diabetics must exercise. There are IMHO no ifs and buts about it.
Execise comes before diet in importance though diet is also vitally
important. Then there is taking meds appropriately. You know all
that. So an injury that prevents exercise is contraindicated for T2
diabetics. For a non-diabetic it would be a nuisance but not
necessarily life threatening. It's a matter of how one interprets
what I said.

>Of course if you've progressed in your diabetes to the point
>where healing is difficult then injuries should be avoided, e.g. the
>frequent advice to avoid cuts and punctures etc. to the feet. That
>advice however only applies if you have difficulty in healing. I keep
>an eye on how I heal from minor cuts and bruises and so far they're
>healing well, so I'm taking no special precautions to avoid them. In
>fact the minor injuries my hands sustain are a useful monitor on how
>my healing is going. I'm rarely without a few scabs on my hands, and
>so far so good.

Slow healing is another aspect.

>I mentioned over exercising my arms and injuring my elbow
>tendons. That was