Another good reason to control your diabetes

I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic
Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from
prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government
agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the
Centers for disease Control and Prevention and the Department of
Health and Human Services. They are charged with the gut wrenching
dilemma of who to let die during a flu pandemic or other disaster."

In a nutshell...it goes like this as to the people who won't be
treated.

"Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure,
lung disease or POORLY CONTROLLED DIABETES.

Others who won't be treated:

"People over 85
Those with severe trauma
Severely burned patients who are over 60
Those with mental impairment, which could include Alzheimers."



Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know,
how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
diabetics are though.


Cheri




--
Cheri

On May 5, 9:59 am, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote:
> I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic
> Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from
> prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government
> agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the
> Centers for disease Control and Prevention and the Department of
> Health and Human Services. They are charged with the gut wrenching
> dilemma of who to let die during a flu pandemic or other disaster."
>
> In a nutshell...it goes like this as to the people who won't be
> treated.
>
> "Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure,
> lung disease or POORLY CONTROLLED DIABETES.
>
> Others who won't be treated:
>
> "People over 85
> Those with severe trauma
> Severely burned patients who are over 60
> Those with mental impairment, which could include Alzheimers."
>
> Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
> they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
> everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know,
> how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
> diabetics are though.
>
> Cheri
>
> --
> Cheri


This is what happens when the whiny public remands that government get
into the healthcare business.
I continue to be astonished that people beg for government
intervention in the most private parts of
their lives - their bodies and then are shocked when they get exactly
what they ask for.
Moreover, I cannot think of a single "national emergency" where the
government was remotely
prepared to deal with the sudden spike of demand of *all* services.
These are civil servants
we're talking about. In most countries, they cannot be fired even if
they are grossly negligent
or incompetent, their departments are virtually never disbanded, and
unlike elected officials,
they cannot be removed by the people at large. Government run
healthcare is just another slip
down the slope to totalitariansm. I'll take the inequities of private
sector healthcare over the
lowest common denominator of political scoundrels "taking care" of
me...

antmeeter@yahoo.com wrote in message ...

>Moreover, I cannot think of a single "national emergency" where the
>government was remotely
>prepared to deal with the sudden spike of demand of *all* services.
>These are civil servants
>we're talking about. In most countries, they cannot be fired even if
>they are grossly negligent
>or incompetent, their departments are virtually never disbanded, and
>unlike elected officials,
>they cannot be removed by the people at large. Government run
>healthcare is just another slip
>down the slope to totalitariansm. I'll take the inequities of
private
>sector healthcare over the
>lowest common denominator of political scoundrels "taking care" of
>me...

And....we know in a real national emergency, they'll be hunkered in
their bunkers, drinking good wine, eating good food, and watching the
rest of us scurry about on their big screen TVs. Damn...........there
goes another uncontrolled diabetic. LOL

Cheri

<antmeeter@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c431a0a6-d713-4d52-b0bb-dbccaa920ae5@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On May 5, 9:59 am, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote:
>> I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic
>> Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from
>> prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government
>> agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the
>> Centers for disease Control and Prevention and the Department of
>> Health and Human Services. They are charged with the gut wrenching
>> dilemma of who to let die during a flu pandemic or other disaster."
>>
>> In a nutshell...it goes like this as to the people who won't be
>> treated.
>>
>> "Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure,
>> lung disease or POORLY CONTROLLED DIABETES.
>>
>> Others who won't be treated:
>>
>> "People over 85
>> Those with severe trauma
>> Severely burned patients who are over 60
>> Those with mental impairment, which could include Alzheimers."
>>
>> Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
>> they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
>> everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know,
>> how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
>> diabetics are though.
>>
>> Cheri
>>
>> --
>> Cheri
>
>
> This is what happens when the whiny public remands that government get
> into the healthcare business.
> I continue to be astonished that people beg for government
> intervention in the most private parts of
> their lives - their bodies and then are shocked when they get exactly
> what they ask for.
> Moreover, I cannot think of a single "national emergency" where the
> government was remotely
> prepared to deal with the sudden spike of demand of *all* services.
> These are civil servants
> we're talking about. In most countries, they cannot be fired even if
> they are grossly negligent
> or incompetent, their departments are virtually never disbanded, and
> unlike elected officials,
> they cannot be removed by the people at large. Government run
> healthcare is just another slip
> down the slope to totalitariansm. I'll take the inequities of private
> sector healthcare over the
> lowest common denominator of political scoundrels "taking care" of
> me...

You must have reliable, inexpensive health insurance. I think the 45
million people who have no health insurance at all might disagree.
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5

On May 5, 1:50 pm, "Michelle C" <bookb...@frys.com> wrote:
> <antmee...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c431a0a6-d713-4d52-b0bb-dbccaa920ae5@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On May 5, 9:59 am, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote:
> >> I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic
> >> Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from
> >> prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government
> >> agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the
> >> Centers for disease Control and Prevention and the Department of
> >> Health and Human Services. They are charged with the gut wrenching
> >> dilemma of who to let die during a flu pandemic or other disaster."
>
> >> In a nutshell...it goes like this as to the people who won't be
> >> treated.
>
> >> "Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure,
> >> lung disease or POORLY CONTROLLED DIABETES.
>
> >> Others who won't be treated:
>
> >> "People over 85
> >> Those with severe trauma
> >> Severely burned patients who are over 60
> >> Those with mental impairment, which could include Alzheimers."
>
> >> Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
> >> they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
> >> everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know,
> >> how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
> >> diabetics are though.
>
> >> Cheri
>
> >> --
> >> Cheri
>
> > This is what happens when the whiny public remands that government get
> > into the healthcare business.
> > I continue to be astonished that people beg for government
> > intervention in the most private parts of
> > their lives - their bodies and then are shocked when they get exactly
> > what they ask for.
> > Moreover, I cannot think of a single "national emergency" where the
> > government was remotely
> > prepared to deal with the sudden spike of demand of *all* services.
> > These are civil servants
> > we're talking about. In most countries, they cannot be fired even if
> > they are grossly negligent
> > or incompetent, their departments are virtually never disbanded, and
> > unlike elected officials,
> > they cannot be removed by the people at large. Government run
> > healthcare is just another slip
> > down the slope to totalitariansm. I'll take the inequities of private
> > sector healthcare over the
> > lowest common denominator of political scoundrels "taking care" of
> > me...
>
> You must have reliable, inexpensive health insurance. I think the 45
> million people who have no health insurance at all might disagree.
> --
> Best regards,
> Michelle C., T2


1) When those "45 million who have no health insurance" make me pay
for it,
then I get to demand that they work to minimize their cost to me.
That
means I am going to lobby my government to make every one of them
exercise regularly, cease drinking and smoking entirely, quit
reproducing
(if they can't afford insurance, they can't afford children), no
fast food,
no red meat ... see where this is going? With the government
carrot
comes the government stick. You *cannot* have government
intervention
without a loss of freedom to someone.

2) 'Grew up in an immigrant family that was fairly poor and had
minimal health
insurance for years. We still managed to see a doctor as
necessary.
How? We *worked* and paid our bills. And, since the Drs. didn't
have
government funny money and bureaucracy with which to tinker, they
focused on the delivery of cost-effective medicine. Did I have
coverage
like a movie star? No. Did we go broke when Mom went into the
hospital
for a month. No.

"Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote in message
newsO2dnWqB9L-dvILVnZ2dnUVZ_viunZ2d@softcom.net...
>
> Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
> they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
> everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know,
> how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
> diabetics are though.

We're the ones who complain about our feet hurting all the time, and drool
at the sight of hi-carb foods.

On Mon, 5 May 2008 07:59:38 -0700, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom>
wrote:

>I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic
>Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from
>prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government
>agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the
>Centers for disease Control and Prevention and the Department of
>Health and Human Services. They are charged with the gut wrenching
>dilemma of who to let die during a flu pandemic or other disaster."
>
>In a nutshell...it goes like this as to the people who won't be
>treated.
>
>"Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure,
>lung disease or POORLY CONTROLLED DIABETES.
>
>Others who won't be treated:
>
>"People over 85
>Those with severe trauma
>Severely burned patients who are over 60
>Those with mental impairment, which could include Alzheimers."

They didn't include Jews and homosexuals???

>Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
>they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
>everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know,
>how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
>diabetics are though.

easy, they check to see if you read asd

"Trinkwasser" <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:firu14porlidrppck4drojp8nhgpo39cu5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 07:59:38 -0700, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom>
> wrote:
>
>>I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic
>>Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from
>>prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government
>>agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the
>>Centers for disease Control and Prevention and the Department of
>>Health and Human Services. They are charged with the gut wrenching
>>dilemma of who to let die during a flu pandemic or other disaster."
>>
>>In a nutshell...it goes like this as to the people who won't be
>>treated.
>>
>>"Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure,
>>lung disease or POORLY CONTROLLED DIABETES.
>>
>>Others who won't be treated:
>>
>>"People over 85
>>Those with severe trauma
>>Severely burned patients who are over 60
>>Those with mental impairment, which could include Alzheimers."
>
> They didn't include Jews and homosexuals???
>
>>Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
>>they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
>>everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know,
>>how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
>>diabetics are though.
>
> easy, they check to see if you read asd

So you think the ones who read asd are poorly controlled, rather than
the diabetics who don't?

On 5/5/08 10:00 AM, in article
c431a0a6-d713-4d52-b0bb-dbccaa920ae5...oglegroups.com,
"antmeeter@yahoo.com" <antmeeter@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On May 5, 9:59 am, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote:
>> I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic
>> Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from
>> prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government
>> agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the
>> Centers for disease Control and Prevention and the Department of
>> Health and Human Services. They are charged with the gut wrenching
>> dilemma of who to let die during a flu pandemic or other disaster."
>>
>> In a nutshell...it goes like this as to the people who won't be
>> treated.
>>
>> "Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure,
>> lung disease or POORLY CONTROLLED DIABETES.
>>
>> Others who won't be treated:
>>
>> "People over 85
>> Those with severe trauma
>> Severely burned patients who are over 60
>> Those with mental impairment, which could include Alzheimers."
>>
>> Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
>> they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
>> everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know,
>> how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
>> diabetics are though.
>>
>> Cheri
>>
>> --
>> Cheri
>
>
> This is what happens when the whiny public remands that government get
> into the healthcare business.
> I continue to be astonished that people beg for government
> intervention in the most private parts of
> their lives - their bodies and then are shocked when they get exactly
> what they ask for.
> Moreover, I cannot think of a single "national emergency" where the
> government was remotely
> prepared to deal with the sudden spike of demand of *all* services.
> These are civil servants
> we're talking about. In most countries, they cannot be fired even if
> they are grossly negligent
> or incompetent, their departments are virtually never disbanded, and
> unlike elected officials,
> they cannot be removed by the people at large. Government run
> healthcare is just another slip
> down the slope to totalitariansm. I'll take the inequities of private
> sector healthcare over the
> lowest common denominator of political scoundrels "taking care" of
> me...

This has nothing to do with government health care. This is called triage.
They are planning who should be treated first in the event of a national
disaster. If you read closely, you will see the organizations mentioned are
all American.

--
Martha T2 Canada
1500mg. Metformin, 4mg. Avandia

<antmeeter@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e61ccbbc-fea3-42ce-9e57-e12b8508550f@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 5, 1:50 pm, "Michelle C" <bookb...@frys.com> wrote:
>> <antmee...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:c431a0a6-d713-4d52-b0bb-dbccaa920ae5@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On May 5, 9:59 am, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote:
>> >> I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic
>> >> Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from
>> >> prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government
>> >> agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the
>> >> Centers for disease Control and Prevention and the Department of
>> >> Health and Human Services. They are charged with the gut wrenching
>> >> dilemma of who to let die during a flu pandemic or other disaster."
>>
>> >> In a nutshell...it goes like this as to the people who won't be
>> >> treated.
>>
>> >> "Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure,
>> >> lung disease or POORLY CONTROLLED DIABETES.
>>
>> >> Others who won't be treated:
>>
>> >> "People over 85
>> >> Those with severe trauma
>> >> Severely burned patients who are over 60
>> >> Those with mental impairment, which could include Alzheimers."
>>
>> >> Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
>> >> they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
>> >> everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know,
>> >> how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
>> >> diabetics are though.
>>
>> >> Cheri
>>
>> >> --
>> >> Cheri
>>
>> > This is what happens when the whiny public remands that government get
>> > into the healthcare business.
>> > I continue to be astonished that people beg for government
>> > intervention in the most private parts of
>> > their lives - their bodies and then are shocked when they get exactly
>> > what they ask for.
>> > Moreover, I cannot think of a single "national emergency" where the
>> > government was remotely
>> > prepared to deal with the sudden spike of demand of *all* services.
>> > These are civil servants
>> > we're talking about. In most countries, they cannot be fired even if
>> > they are grossly negligent
>> > or incompetent, their departments are virtually never disbanded, and
>> > unlike elected officials,
>> > they cannot be removed by the people at large. Government run
>> > healthcare is just another slip
>> > down the slope to totalitariansm. I'll take the inequities of private
>> > sector healthcare over the
>> > lowest common denominator of political scoundrels "taking care" of
>> > me...
>>
>> You must have reliable, inexpensive health insurance. I think the 45
>> million people who have no health insurance at all might disagree.
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Michelle C., T2
>
>
> 1) When those "45 million who have no health insurance" make me pay
> for it,
> then I get to demand that they work to minimize their cost to me.
> That
> means I am going to lobby my government to make every one of them
> exercise regularly, cease drinking and smoking entirely, quit
> reproducing
> (if they can't afford insurance, they can't afford children), no
> fast food,
> no red meat ... see where this is going? With the government
> carrot
> comes the government stick. You *cannot* have government
> intervention
> without a loss of freedom to someone.
>
> 2) 'Grew up in an immigrant family that was fairly poor and had
> minimal health
> insurance for years. We still managed to see a doctor as
> necessary.
> How? We *worked* and paid our bills. And, since the Drs. didn't
> have
> government funny money and bureaucracy with which to tinker, they
> focused on the delivery of cost-effective medicine. Did I have
> coverage
> like a movie star? No. Did we go broke when Mom went into the
> hospital
> for a month. No.

Most of those 45 million are working. If they are disabled or below the
poverty line, they are entitled to Medicaid. And then there are those like
many on ASD who are denied health insurance entirely because they have
diabetes--doesn't matter whether they can afford it or not.
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5

On Mon, 05 May 2008 21:30:53 +0100, Trinkwasser
<spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:

>I would like to know,
>>how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
>>diabetics are though.
>
>easy, they check to see if you read asd

Of course!

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile?
and Cambodia
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html

On Mon, 5 May 2008 16:41:27 -0500, "Robert Miles"
<robertmiles@bellsouthNOSPAM.net> wrote:

>
>"Trinkwasser" <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote in message
>news:firu14porlidrppck4drojp8nhgpo39cu5@4ax.com.. .
>> On Mon, 5 May 2008 07:59:38 -0700, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom>
>> wrote:
>>
<snip>

>>> I would like to know,
>>>how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
>>>diabetics are though.
>>
>> easy, they check to see if you read asd
>
>So you think the ones who read asd are poorly controlled, rather than
>the diabetics who don't?
>
Nah, we'll be well-controlled by definition. They simply
check our computer hard-drives to see if we've book-marked
Jennifer's Advice.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile?
and Cambodia
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html

On Mon, 5 May 2008 10:00:04 -0700 (PDT), antmeeter@yahoo.com
wrote:

>This is what happens when the whiny public remands that government get
>into the healthcare business.

Nonsense. We have no such lists here that I am aware of, in
our blend of Government and Private health systems..

However, whether it is government or private enterprise,
hospitals and health treatment centres will always have a
triage system. The only difference with this report is that
someone has published guidelines.

In the real world, triage nurses are doing this all day,
every day.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile?
and Cambodia
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html

On Mon, 05 May 2008 21:30:53 +0100, Trinkwasser
<spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 5 May 2008 07:59:38 -0700, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom>
>wrote:
>>Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
>>they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
>>everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know,
>>how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
>>diabetics are though.
>
>easy, they check to see if you read asd

LOL! The perfect test

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

friend Cheri wrote:
>
> I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic
> Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from
> prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government
> agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the
> Centers for disease Control and Prevention and the Department of
> Health and Human Services. They are charged with the gut wrenching
> dilemma of who to let die during a flu pandemic or other disaster."

We, who are medical professionals, are expecting that the Pan-Flu will
happen though only GOD knows when:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/Pan-Flu

> In a nutshell...it goes like this as to the people who won't be
> treated.
>
> "Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure,
> lung disease or POORLY CONTROLLED DIABETES.
>
> Others who won't be treated:
>
> "People over 85
> Those with severe trauma
> Severely burned patients who are over 60
> Those with mental impairment, which could include Alzheimers."
>
> Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
> they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
> everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-)

We call this "triage."

> I would like to know,
> how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
> diabetics are though.

We have our clinical judgment.

Those with love in their hearts for all souls will try to help all
souls regardless of "triage" guidelines:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/TeamSamaritan

<><

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Love

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in message

>Those with love in their hearts for all souls will try to help all
>souls regardless of "triage" guidelines:


I know it's true that the doctors on scene will make the judgment
calls as to who they can help, and I know that most of them will try
to help all that they can, so I just don't see why "the panel" had to
put those particular triage guidelines into words. It sounds like
something out of wartime Germany to me.

Cheri

Our dear friend Wingless in Wyoming wrote

> Dear Andy Landers
>
> I am worried about the possibilty of a pondemic
> of the bird flu. I am sure God knows when it is
> coming. There are people with whom the Holy Spirit
> talks and even uses their web pages, so why don't
> those people, in their prayers, ask the Holy
> Spirit to tell them or leave a note on their
> web pages.
>
> Wingless in Wyoming

Dear Wingless in Wyoming

God works in mysterious ways and it is not for us to know until God wants us
to know. I agree that we should all pray to God that He will have the Holy
Spirit tell those to whom the Holy Soirit speaks and uses their web pages.
It will be a good test of their importance if they can get that information.

Andy Landers

J666 wrote:

> Our dear friend Wingless in Wyoming wrote
>
>> Dear Andy Landers
>>
>> I am worried about the possibilty of a pondemic
>> of the bird flu. I am sure God knows when it is
>> coming. There are people with whom the Holy Spirit
>> talks and even uses their web pages, so why don't
>> those people, in their prayers, ask the Holy
>> Spirit to tell them or leave a note on their
>> web pages.
>>
>> Wingless in Wyoming
>
> Dear Wingless in Wyoming
>
> God works in mysterious ways and it is not for us to know until God wants
> us
> to know. I agree that we should all pray to God that He will have the
> Holy Spirit tell those to whom the Holy Soirit speaks and uses their web
> pages. It will be a good test of their importance if they can get that
> information.
>
> Andy Landers


You really should clean up your old homepage.
And get rid of the blue gun.


--
monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because trying to prove
the existence of God is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
** Atheists have blind faith in their ability to know of all actual or
possible modes of existence. Such hubris cannot be good for science.

On Tue, 6 May 2008 11:17:20 -0500, our wise and kind Andy Landers wrote


> Dear Wingless in Wyoming
>
> God works in mysterious ways and it is not for us to know until God wants us
> to know. I agree that we should all pray to God that He will have the Holy
> Spirit tell those to whom the Holy Soirit speaks and uses their web pages.
> It will be a good test of their importance if they can get that information.
>
> Andy Landers

Dear Andy Landers

Thank you for your response. Hopefully our prayers will be answered. I have
always been very impressed with your wisdom and kindness.

Speaking about birds .....

I was on sightseeing trip in the ocean and was fascinating to see the
albatrosses. They are among the largest flying birds, weighing in at up to 22
pounds - that is 22 with two 2's - wonder if that means anything. Albatrosses
are oceanic birds and they live at sea and find their fish and food on the
open ocean - they just swoosh down and grab a fish for a meal.

I like fishing but stay away from the bottom-feeders with big mouths who live
on the bottom and with their big mouths just eat all the crap and so are
just full of it.

Wingless in Wyoming

friend Cheri wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> >Those with love in their hearts for all souls will try to help all
> >souls regardless of "triage" guidelines:
> >
> > http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/TeamSamaritan
>
> I know it's true that the doctors on scene will make the judgment
> calls as to who they can help, and I know that most of them will try
> to help all that they can...

The doctors, who have Jesus' love in their hearts, will be both
willing and able to give up their lives to help all whom GOD allows
them to help in keeping with Jesus' new commandment "love each other
as I have loved you."

> , so I just don't see why "the panel" had to
> put those particular triage guidelines into words.

It is possible that those guidelines will be used by evildoers to test
the faith of Christian doctors.

May we, who are Christian doctors, pass this test, if/when it happens,
with GOD's help, in Jesus' name.

> It sounds like
> something out of wartime Germany to me.

Sadly and tragically, there was no love in the hearts of the leaders
of wartime Germany.

Marana tha

<><

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Love

On Mon, 5 May 2008 16:41:27 -0500, "Robert Miles"
<robertmiles@bellsouthNOSPAM.net> wrote:

>
>"Trinkwasser" <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote in message
>news:firu14porlidrppck4drojp8nhgpo39cu5@4ax.com.. .
>> On Mon, 5 May 2008 07:59:38 -0700, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
>>>they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
>>>everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know,
>>>how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
>>>diabetics are though.
>>
>> easy, they check to see if you read asd
>
>So you think the ones who read asd are poorly controlled, rather than
>the diabetics who don't?
>
No no no, I mean if you *don't* read asd you're on the list

(if you use the ADA forums you're on the list twice)

Cheri <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote:

: Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in message

: >Those with love in their hearts for all souls will try to help all
: >souls regardless of "triage" guidelines:


: I know it's true that the doctors on scene will make the judgment
: calls as to who they can help, and I know that most of them will try
: to help all that they can, so I just don't see why "the panel" had to
: put those particular triage guidelines into words. It sounds like
: something out of wartime Germany to me.

: Cheri

My mother was part of a large family(8 girls adn 1 boy). One time(this wa
back in the 1900's) there was an epidemic of scarlet fever in the house.
The doctor was busy treating all the girls as best he could and jus had to
decide to let the baby in the crib, who also had th fever, untreated and
let her live or die as best she could (she was either 6 ot 7 of the
girls-no boy yet). she did survive, but was left with hearing problems as
a result of the illness. all the older girls survived with no lasting
effects. My moher remembered standing by the crib feeling so bad that no
one was helping Baby Josie. I guess that families could only stretch so
far with all that sickness adn no real medications the, jus tthings like
cool compresses on the head, etc.

Wendy

On Tue, 06 May 2008 20:45:58 +0100, Trinkwasser
<spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:

>No no no, I mean if you *don't* read asd you're on the list
>
>(if you use the ADA forums you're on the list twice)

Hmm. That makes me -1 and +2.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.
and Cambodia
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html

On Mon, 5 May 2008 07:59:38 -0700, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom>
wrote:

>I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic
>Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from
>prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government
>agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the
>Centers for disease Control and Prevention and the Department of
>Health and Human Services. They are charged with the gut wrenching
>dilemma of who to let die during a flu pandemic or other disaster."
>
>In a nutshell...it goes like this as to the people who won't be
>treated.
>
>"Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure,
>lung disease or POORLY CONTROLLED DIABETES.
>
>Others who won't be treated:
>
>"People over 85
>Those with severe trauma
>Severely burned patients who are over 60
>Those with mental impairment, which could include Alzheimers."
>
>
>
>Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
>they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
>everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know,
>how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
>diabetics are though.
>
>
>Cheri


Simple, the real definition is going to be "all diabetics".

--
Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o ô)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
....Bilbo Baggins


DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
..

convicted neighbor Màck©® wrote:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForMack

> friend "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote:
>
> >I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic
> >Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from
> >prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government
> >agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the
> >Centers for disease Control and Prevention and the Department of
> >Health and Human Services. They are charged with the gut wrenching
> >dilemma of who to let die during a flu pandemic or other disaster."
> >
> >In a nutshell...it goes like this as to the people who won't be
> >treated.
> >
> >"Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure,
> >lung disease or POORLY CONTROLLED DIABETES.
> >
> >Others who won't be treated:
> >
> >"People over 85
> >Those with severe trauma
> >Severely burned patients who are over 60
> >Those with mental impairment, which could include Alzheimers."
> >
> >
> >
> >Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
> >they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
> >everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know,
> >how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
> >diabetics are though.
>
> Simple, the real definition is going to be "all diabetics".

Quite possibly for most diabetics when diabetic medications become no
longer available.

<><

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Counsels

On Tue, 06 May 2008 09:14:35 +1000, Alan S
<loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

>Nah, we'll be well-controlled by definition. They simply
>check our computer hard-drives to see if we've book-marked
>Jennifer's Advice.
>
>
>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.

<snort>

The logical way would be to violate the privacy between doctor and
patient and read one's A1c. That is probably all too easy to do
without even approaching a GP by looking through the lab records.

Thanks Cheri for bringing to our attention a rather scary application
of the triage that would necessary in such circumstances.

I better put on my best smile that day. <griM>
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

On Wed, 07 May 2008 09:02:42 +1000, Alan S
<loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 06 May 2008 20:45:58 +0100, Trinkwasser
><spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>No no no, I mean if you *don't* read asd you're on the list
>>
>>(if you use the ADA forums you're on the list twice)
>
>Hmm. That makes me -1 and +2.
>

Ah but you're only there as a subversive

On Thu, 08 May 2008 20:07:14 +0100, Trinkwasser
<spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 07 May 2008 09:02:42 +1000, Alan S
><loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 06 May 2008 20:45:58 +0100, Trinkwasser
>><spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>No no no, I mean if you *don't* read asd you're on the list
>>>
>>>(if you use the ADA forums you're on the list twice)
>>
>>Hmm. That makes me -1 and +2.
>>
>
>Ah but you're only there as a subversive

Hmm...I prefer to see it as an educator:-)


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.
and Cambodia
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html

On May 7, 4:37*am, lov...@thetruth.com wrote:
> convicted neighbor Màck©® wrote:
>
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForMack
>
>
>
>
>
> > friend "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote:
>
> > >I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic
> > >Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from
> > >prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government
> > >agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the
> > >Centers for disease Control and Prevention and the Department of
> > >Health and Human Services. They are charged with the gut wrenching
> > >dilemma of who to let die during a flu pandemic or other disaster."
>
> > >In a nutshell...it goes like this as to the people who won't be
> > >treated.
>
> > >"Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure,
> > >lung disease or POORLY CONTROLLED DIABETES.
>
> > >Others who won't be treated:
>
> > >"People over 85
> > >Those with severe trauma
> > >Severely burned patients who are over 60
> > >Those with mental impairment, which could include Alzheimers."
>
> > >Unbelievable to me, that they would actually put this into words, but
> > >they did say that compiling the list was "emotionally difficult for
> > >everyone" so I feel a lot better about it. ;-) I would like to know,
> > >how in a national emergency, they will know who the poorly controlled
> > >diabetics are though.
>
> > Simple, the real definition is going to be "all diabetics".
>
> Quite possibly for most diabetics when diabetic medications become no
> longer available.
>
> <><
>
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Counsels- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Which might make us among the luckiest people in case of pandemic.
Somewhere on a group, I read someone's theory about SARS. It was
becoming such a problem in Canada that people were being inoculated
with an anti virus vaccine. It became so great that they had to close
the hospitals. When they did that the SARS problem seemed to
disappear. Speculation was that the vaccine was what was doing the
damage. When they stopped treating--no more epidemic.

Dolores

dorsy1943 wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > convicted neighbor M@ck wrote:
> >
> > http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForMack
>
> > > friend "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote:
> >
> > > >I was reading in the newspaper this morning an article called Pandemic
> > > >Plan. "The list was compiled by a task force whose members come from
> > > >prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government
> > > >agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the
> > > &