Carnitine + Less Eating = Improved Insulin Sensitivity

[[email protected]]

Just came across this study. Easy to do a self experiment and see if
it works.

Caloric restriction and L-carnitine administration improves insulin
sensitivity in patients with impaired glucose metabolism.
Molfino A, Cascino A, Conte C, Ramaccini C, Rossi Fanelli F, Laviano
A.
JPEN J Parenter Enteral Nutr. 2010 May-Jun;34(3):295-9.
PMID: 20467011

Abstract

Background: Reduced circulating and tissue carnitine levels, possibly
leading to impaired mitochondrial function, have been postulated to
be
involved in the pathogenesis of insulin resistance. However, whether
L-carnitine administration may improve insulin sensitivity in patients
with
impaired fasting glucose (IFG) or type 2 diabetes mellitus (DM-2) is
still
controversial. The aim of the study was to explore the role of L-
carnitine
supplementation in influencing insulin sensitivity.

Methods: A randomized controlled study involving adult outpatients
was
designed. Adult patients referred to the outpatient clinic and within
10
days of the diagnosis of IFG or DM-2 were consecutively enrolled.
Exclusion
criteria were concomitant antidiabetic therapy and modifications of
lifestyle during the previous 4 weeks. Patients were randomly assigned
to
receive a hypocaloric diet for 10 days (group C; n = 8) or the same
dietetic
regimen in addition to oral L-carnitine (2 g twice daily)
supplementation
(group LC; n = 8). Oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT), fasting plasma
insulin levels, and homeostasis model assessment of insulin
resistance
(HOMA-IR) were assessed at the beginning and end of the study. Data
were
statistically analyzed using the Student t test for paired and
unpaired
data.

Results: OGTT at 2 hours improved in both groups. Only in the
L-carnitine-supplemented group did plasma insulin levels and HOMA-IR
significantly decrease when compared to baseline values.

Conclusions: Considering the role of caloric restriction in increasing
the
intestinal uptake of carnitine, the results suggest that oral L-
carnitine
administration, when associated with a hypocaloric feeding regimen,
improves
insulin resistance and may represent an adjunctive treatment for IFG
and
DM-2.

[GysdeJongh]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..

> Caloric restriction and L-carnitine administration improves insulin
> sensitivity in patients with impaired glucose metabolism.

very useful, thanks Randy
there is a lot on the effect of carnitine, or the more bio available acetyl
carnitine, on insulin action. But also on diabetic neuropathy. Used it
myself, eventually stopped all sup's because I got worried about the purity
issues.

Here is a free review :
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.co...-7075-7-30.pdf
Nutr Metab (Lond). 2010 Apr 16;7:30.
Role of carnitine in disease.

Abstract
ABSTRACT: Carnitine is a conditionally essential nutrient that plays a vital
role in energy production and fatty acid metabolism. Vegetarians possess a
greater bioavailability than meat eaters. Distinct deficiencies arise either
from genetic mutation of carnitine transporters or in association with other
disorders such as liver or kidney disease. Carnitine deficiency occurs in
aberrations of carnitine regulation in disorders such as diabetes, sepsis,
cardiomyopathy, malnutrition, cirrhosis, endocrine disorders and with aging.
Nutritional supplementation of L-carnitine, the biologically active form of
carnitine, is ameliorative for uremic patients, and can improve nerve
conduction, neuropathic pain and immune function in diabetes patients while
it is life-saving for patients suffering primary carnitine deficiency.
Clinical application of carnitine holds much promise in a range of neural
disorders such as Alzheimer's disease, hepatic encephalopathy and other
painful neuropathies. Topical application in dry eye offers osmoprotection
and modulates immune and inflammatory responses. Carnitine has been
recognized as a nutritional supplement in cardiovascular disease and there
is increasing evidence that carnitine supplementation may be beneficial in
treating obesity, improving glucose intolerance and total energy
expenditure.

PMID: 20398344

thanks again
remind me if you start a blog on diabetes and how to live with it

[Me Jane]

>randy@ wrote:
>Just came across this study. Easy to do a self
>experiment and see if it works.
>Caloric restriction and L-carnitine administration improves insulin
sensitivity in patients
>with impaired glucose metabolism. Molfino A, Cascino A, Conte C,
>Ramaccini C, Rossi Fanelli F, Laviano
>A.
>JPEN J Parenter Enteral Nutr. 2010 May-Jun;34(3):295-9. PMID: 20467011
>Abstract
>Background: Reduced circulating and tissue carnitine levels, possibly
>leading to impaired mitochondrial function, have been postulated to be
>involved in the pathogenesis of insulin resistance. However, whether
L-carnitine
>administration may improve insulin sensitivity in patients with
>impaired fasting glucose (IFG) or type 2 diabetes mellitus (DM-2)
>is still
>controversial. The aim of the study was to explore the
>role of L- carnitine
>supplementation in influencing insulin sensitivity.
>[...] snipped
>Conclusions: Considering the role of caloric restriction in increasing
>the
>intestinal uptake of carnitine, the results suggest that oral L-
>carnitine
>administration, when associated with a hypocaloric feeding regimen,
improves
>insulin resistance and may represent an adjunctive treatment for IFG
>and
>DM-2.
..
Thank you Randy!
I'm going to ask my doc to see if she'll write for l-carnitine for me.

I (most days <g>) have the calories right now by not being as hungry
with lots of veggies and protein but most of the veggies are canned and
have lost some nutrients in the processing. I'll post later how I make
out.
Cheers, Jane

[GysdeJongh]

"Me Jane" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> >randy@ wrote:

>>Caloric restriction

> I'm going to ask my doc to see if she'll write for l-carnitine for me.

while you are at it, maybe you could ask for a prescription for the other
active ingredient that was mentioned in Randy's link : Caloric restriction

Diabetes. 2009 Jul;58(7):1488-98. Epub 2009 Mar 31.
Modulation of skeletal muscle insulin signaling with chronic caloric
restriction in cynomolgus monkeys.
CONCLUSIONS: CR increases insulin sensitivity on a whole-body level and
enhances insulin receptor signaling in this higher species. CR in cynomolgus
monkeys may alter insulin signaling in vivo by modulating protein content of
insulin receptor signaling proteins.
PMID: 19336678

Br J Nutr. 2010 Jul;104(1):76-82. Epub 2010 Feb 24.
Beneficial effects of dietary restriction in type 2 diabetic rats: the role
of adipokines on inflammation and insulin resistance.
These results indicate that dietary restriction in type 2 diabetes enhances
adipose tissue metabolism leading to an improved skeletal muscle insulin
sensitivity.
PMID: 20178670

Science. 2010 Apr 16;328(5976):321-6.
Extending healthy life span--from yeast to humans.
Dietary restriction also increases life span and protects against diabetes,
cancer, and cardiovascular disease.Dietary restriction may thus slow aging
by similar mechanisms, which have been conserved during evolution. We
discuss these findings and their potential application to prevention of
age-related disease and promotion of healthy aging in humans.
PMID: 20395504

[Me Jane]

>(GysdeJongh) wrote:
>while you are at it, maybe you could ask for
>a prescription for the other active ingredient that was mentioned
>in Randy's link : Caloric restriction
..
Well, as I mentioned, I feel I have that under control with the fairly
constant 1500-1600 calories daily I'm eating ...chicken, turkey and fish
more than beef, vegetables and soups.
I'm only counting carbs now because I know calorie counts pretty well
... with keeping carbs around 60 I don't have the awful hunger pangs.
..
Or maybe it was a joke ...(?) Dunno. I have 'free' room & board here but
everything else I get comes out of my $45 a month stipend. So no, I
can't get all the supplements I would like to so I find out which ones
my doc feels would do me the most good and she orders them through my
insurance if she can.
..
I hope that made sense!
Cheers, Jane

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

GysdeJongh wrote:
> "Me Jane" wrote:
> > >randy@ wrote:
>
> >>Caloric restriction
>
> > I'm going to ask my doc to see if she'll write for l-carnitine for me.
>
> while you are at it, maybe you could ask for a prescription for the other
> active ingredient that was mentioned in Randy's link : Caloric restriction
>
> Diabetes. 2009 Jul;58(7):1488-98. Epub 2009 Mar 31.
> Modulation of skeletal muscle insulin signaling with chronic caloric
> restriction in cynomolgus monkeys.
> CONCLUSIONS: CR increases insulin sensitivity on a whole-body level and
> enhances insulin receptor signaling in this higher species. CR in cynomolgus
> monkeys may alter insulin signaling in vivo by modulating protein content of
> insulin receptor signaling proteins.
> PMID: 19336678
>
> Br J Nutr. 2010 Jul;104(1):76-82. Epub 2010 Feb 24.
> Beneficial effects of dietary restriction in type 2 diabetic rats: the role
> of adipokines on inflammation and insulin resistance.
> These results indicate that dietary restriction in type 2 diabetes enhances
> adipose tissue metabolism leading to an improved skeletal muscle insulin
> sensitivity.
> PMID: 20178670
>
> Science. 2010 Apr 16;328(5976):321-6.
> Extending healthy life span--from yeast to humans.
> Dietary restriction also increases life span and protects against diabetes,
> cancer, and cardiovascular disease.Dietary restriction may thus slow aging
> by similar mechanisms, which have been conserved during evolution. We
> discuss these findings and their potential application to prevention of
> age-related disease and promotion of healthy aging in humans.
> PMID: 20395504

We must quantify food to really eat the right amount (32 oz) per day.

The only reliable repeatable way of quantifying food is by weighing
it.

Yes, amount control as Chris Malcolm is doing is much more
sophisticated and smarter:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...ef74488074acf?

Be hungrier, which really is healthier especially for diabetics and
other heart disease patients:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...2aafa0aad16eb?

We do this by weighing our meals per the http://WDJW.net/2PD-OMER
Approach to get our...

http://WDJW.net/Status

and then...

http://WDJW.net/Update

so that there will be...

http://WDJW.net/NoVAT

Being hungry is truly wonderful as proven by four lines of evidence:

Mathematical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

Historical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

Medical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

Psychological:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

So that we really should http://WDJW.net/BeHungry and say we are
"wonderfully hungry" whenever we are greeted:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

There is pure joy in being used by GOD to convince others:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...4c8a5b7c7518c?

"A 2005 visit to an Atlanta cardiologist by the name of Andrew Chung
put me on some serious reality

I wasnt just chubby or husky, I am what they often call morbidly
obese. He explained that morbid obesity simply means that if something
happened to me that could be attiributed to weight and I were to end
up in the not breathing state

ok some call it DEAD

that a doctor could simply dismiss it as natural causes related to
weight more or less.

Ive been told I was a chunky fella a couple times, maybe even fat...
but not quite that harshly. Definitely made me think about a few
things, as much as I dislike scare tactics when it comes to health.

Well in the midst of the shock treatment, he also had me come to a
heart wellness seminar that he does on some Saturdays in Mableton.

Nice little get together, he has folks from the community come in and
discuss Tai Chi, exercises, testimonials, all kinds of good stuff.

Then he shows the movie SUPERSIZE ME to set up the pitch for his 2PD
Omer approach that he has his patients use to lose weight.

In a nutshell, in his view, HOW MUCH you eat is more of the issue than
WHAT you eat and portion is more important than any fat content or
calories.

I agree with this. This is why I have always been more successful on
more liquid diets (cabbage soup, slimfast, herbalife (tho dangerous))
than anything else. I wasnt eating the portions I was before that..."

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...824a99ba4f187?

Love in the truth,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Cardiologist
and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...0c19df5ffc2f7?

[Ken]

Andy Chung, a certifiable QUACK

[Joseph H.]

Le 2010-07-15 22:58, Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD a écrit :
> GysdeJongh wrote:
>> "Me Jane" wrote:
>>>> randy@ wrote:
>>
>>>> Caloric restriction
>>
>>> I'm going to ask my doc to see if she'll write for l-carnitine for me.
>>
>> while you are at it, maybe you could ask for a prescription for the other
>> active ingredient that was mentioned in Randy's link : Caloric restriction
>>
>> Diabetes. 2009 Jul;58(7):1488-98. Epub 2009 Mar 31.
>> Modulation of skeletal muscle insulin signaling with chronic caloric
>> restriction in cynomolgus monkeys.
>> CONCLUSIONS: CR increases insulin sensitivity on a whole-body level and
>> enhances insulin receptor signaling in this higher species. CR in cynomolgus
>> monkeys may alter insulin signaling in vivo by modulating protein content of
>> insulin receptor signaling proteins.
>> PMID: 19336678
>>
>> Br J Nutr. 2010 Jul;104(1):76-82. Epub 2010 Feb 24.
>> Beneficial effects of dietary restriction in type 2 diabetic rats: the role
>> of adipokines on inflammation and insulin resistance.
>> These results indicate that dietary restriction in type 2 diabetes enhances
>> adipose tissue metabolism leading to an improved skeletal muscle insulin
>> sensitivity.
>> PMID: 20178670
>>
>> Science. 2010 Apr 16;328(5976):321-6.
>> Extending healthy life span--from yeast to humans.
>> Dietary restriction also increases life span and protects against diabetes,
>> cancer, and cardiovascular disease.Dietary restriction may thus slow aging
>> by similar mechanisms, which have been conserved during evolution. We
>> discuss these findings and their potential application to prevention of
>> age-related disease and promotion of healthy aging in humans.
>> PMID: 20395504
>
> We must quantify food to really eat the right amount (32 oz) per day.

Anyone doing that risks death or grave sickness. Chung is insane.

For people with questions about dieting or nutrition, please consult a
professional dietitian.

Chung is a quack and should be ignored.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Ken wrote:
>
> "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting
> different results"
> Albert Einstein ...

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...09afdfa9455f5?

.... and ...

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...a3310cdc6e165?

Actually, insanity is simply a condition of being disconnected from
reality falsely thinking fiction is truth thereby suffering from
delusions.

For example, your quoting Albert Einstein's fictional definition of
insanity multiple times and applying it as if it were true serves well
as evidence that you really are becoming insane.

Ken wrote earlier in part:
>
> Schizophrenia can set in at any time but it's usual shows up in early
> adulthood.
>
> I'm predisposed due to my biological maw spending her adult life in a
> hospital as a paranoid schizophrenic before passing in '66

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...1fbe0d8ff812a?

Only the truth, Who is Jesus, can keep you from becoming more
delusional like your mom was.

There are others who are also observing that you are exhibiting
psychopathology:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...6b038f17f681b?

Bottom line concerning you, Ken:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...4a7f27fc8ae79?

Truth is reality ...

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...c9c0ed3b24ca2?

.... despite your efforts:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...0f9fd903ab7c2?

And, so this bona-fide physician ( http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc ) freely
chooses to continue to pray for you as outlined per the amazing
Facebook spectacle at http://WDJW.net/Salvation earlier:

May GOD save your perishing soul by giving you, Ken, a new heart and a
new spirit (Ezekiel 11:19-20 and 36:26) so that you would be born
again of water and Spirit (John 3:3 and 3:5), http://WDJW.net/Forgiven
by Him so that you would come to trust the truth, Who is Jesus:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Be hungrier, which really is healthier especially for diabetics and
other heart disease patients:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...2aafa0aad16eb?

We do this by weighing our meals per the http://WDJW.net/2PDOMER
Approach to get our...

http://WDJW.net/Status

and then...

http://WDJW.net/Update

so that there will be...

http://WDJW.net/NoVAT

Being hungry is truly wonderful as proven by four lines of evidence:

Mathematical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

Historical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

Medical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

Psychological:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

So that we really should http://WDJW.net/BeHungry and say we are
"wonderfully hungry" whenever we are greeted:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

There is pure joy in being used by GOD to convince others:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...4c8a5b7c7518c?

"A 2005 visit to an Atlanta cardiologist by the name of Andrew Chung
put me on some serious reality

I wasnt just chubby or husky, I am what they often call morbidly
obese. He explained that morbid obesity simply means that if something
happened to me that could be attiributed to weight and I were to end
up in the not breathing state

ok some call it DEAD

that a doctor could simply dismiss it as natural causes related to
weight more or less.

Ive been told I was a chunky fella a couple times, maybe even fat...
but not quite that harshly. Definitely made me think about a few
things, as much as I dislike scare tactics when it comes to health.

Well in the midst of the shock treatment, he also had me come to a
heart wellness seminar that he does on some Saturdays in Mableton.

Nice little get together, he has folks from the community come in and
discuss Tai Chi, exercises, testimonials, all kinds of good stuff.

Then he shows the movie SUPERSIZE ME to set up the pitch for his 2PD
Omer approach that he has his patients use to lose weight.

In a nutshell, in his view, HOW MUCH you eat is more of the issue than
WHAT you eat and portion is more important than any fat content or
calories.

I agree with this. This is why I have always been more successful on
more liquid diets (cabbage soup, slimfast, herbalife (tho dangerous))
than anything else. I wasnt eating the portions I was before that..."

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...824a99ba4f187?

Marana tha

Prayerfully in the awesome name of our Messiah, LORD Jesus Christ,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Cardiologist
and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...0c19df5ffc2f7?

[Ken]

***

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Ken wrote:
>
> "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting
> different results"
> Albert Einstein ...

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...09afdfa9455f5?

.... and ...

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...a3310cdc6e165?

Actually, insanity is simply a condition of being disconnected from
reality falsely thinking fiction is truth thereby suffering from
delusions.

For example, your quoting Albert Einstein's fictional definition of
insanity multiple times and applying it as if it were true serves well
as evidence that you really are becoming insane.

Ken wrote earlier in part:
>
> Schizophrenia can set in at any time but it's usual shows up in early
> adulthood.
>
> I'm predisposed due to my biological maw spending her adult life in a
> hospital as a paranoid schizophrenic before passing in '66

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...1fbe0d8ff812a?

Only the truth, Who is Jesus, can keep you from becoming more
delusional like your mom was.

There are others who are also observing that you are exhibiting
psychopathology:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...6b038f17f681b?

Bottom line concerning you, Ken:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...4a7f27fc8ae79?

Truth is reality ...

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...c9c0ed3b24ca2?

.... despite your efforts:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...0f9fd903ab7c2?

And, so this bona-fide physician ( http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc ) freely
chooses to continue to pray for you as outlined per the amazing
Facebook spectacle at http://WDJW.net/Salvation earlier:

May GOD save your perishing soul by giving you, Ken, a new heart and a
new spirit (Ezekiel 11:19-20 and 36:26) so that you would be born
again of water and Spirit (John 3:3 and 3:5), http://WDJW.net/Forgiven
by Him so that you would come to trust the truth, Who is Jesus:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Be hungrier, which really is healthier especially for diabetics and
other heart disease patients:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...2aafa0aad16eb?

We do this by weighing our meals per the http://WDJW.net/2PDOMER
Approach to get our...

http://WDJW.net/Status

and then...

http://WDJW.net/Update

so that there will be...

http://WDJW.net/NoVAT

Being hungry is truly wonderful as proven by four lines of evidence:

Mathematical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

Historical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

Medical:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

Psychological:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

So that we really should http://WDJW.net/BeHungry and say we are
"wonderfully hungry" whenever we are greeted:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1467768946

There is pure joy in being used by GOD to convince others:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...4c8a5b7c7518c?

"A 2005 visit to an Atlanta cardiologist by the name of Andrew Chung
put me on some serious reality

I wasnt just chubby or husky, I am what they often call morbidly
obese. He explained that morbid obesity simply means that if something
happened to me that could be attiributed to weight and I were to end
up in the not breathing state

ok some call it DEAD

that a doctor could simply dismiss it as natural causes related to
weight more or less.

Ive been told I was a chunky fella a couple times, maybe even fat...
but not quite that harshly. Definitely made me think about a few
things, as much as I dislike scare tactics when it comes to health.

Well in the midst of the shock treatment, he also had me come to a
heart wellness seminar that he does on some Saturdays in Mableton.

Nice little get together, he has folks from the community come in and
discuss Tai Chi, exercises, testimonials, all kinds of good stuff.

Then he shows the movie SUPERSIZE ME to set up the pitch for his 2PD
Omer approach that he has his patients use to lose weight.

In a nutshell, in his view, HOW MUCH you eat is more of the issue than
WHAT you eat and portion is more important than any fat content or
calories.

I agree with this. This is why I have always been more successful on
more liquid diets (cabbage soup, slimfast, herbalife (tho dangerous))
than anything else. I wasnt eating the portions I was before that..."

Source:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...824a99ba4f187?

Marana tha

Prayerfully in the awesome name of our Messiah, LORD Jesus Christ,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Cardiologist
and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...0c19df5ffc2f7?

[GysdeJongh]

"Chris Hogg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..

> See also: http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/18/1/77
> L-Carnitine Improves Glucose Disposal in Type 2 Diabetic Patients

Hi Chris,
L-Carnitine Improves Glucose Disposal in Type 2 .... BUT

L-Carnitine is involved in the transport of FATTY ACIDS across menbranes.
L-Carnitine is in the fat metabolism, NOT in the carbohydrate metabolism.
Yet it improves glucose proposal.

Handeling T2 involves much more than low carb
Your tigh bone is connected to your knee bone

[M@©k®]

On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 23:40:02 +0200, "GysdeJongh" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Handeling T2 involves much more than low carb
>Your tigh bone is connected to your knee bone

I don't have tigh bone connected to my knee bone.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

On 7/17/2010 5:51 PM, M@©k® wrote:

> I don't have tigh bone connected to my knee bone.
>

Me neither.

And for 12 years, all it's taken to handle my type 2 and reverse kidney
and nerve damage is low carb.

Susan

[[email protected]]

Jane Wrote:
> Thank you Randy!
> I'm going to ask my doc to see if she'll write for l-carnitine for me.
>

Don't know where your from Jane but in the US this stuff is available
without a script anywhere supplements are sold.
Randy

Jane Wrote:
> I (most days <g>) have the calories right now by not being as hungry
> with lots of veggies and protein

My experience is that your not in calorie restriction if you not
hungry alot of the time. I wish this wasn't so because consistent
calorie restriction is hands down the best cure all for all physical
woes. Nothing comes close, incuding exericise and whatever kind of
full calorie diet your attached to.

Randy

[GysdeJongh]

"M@©k®" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..

eat more red meat, saturated fat and sit on your but

[GysdeJongh]

"GysdeJongh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:YHB0o.157283$9c1.24437@hurricane...
> "M@©k®" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]..
>
> eat more red meat, saturated fat and sit on your but

if your bmi goes through the roof, diagnose your self as cushing
all essential nutrients are in iceberg lettuce and rum
all dokters are corrupt ignorant grain sellers
and so on

[M@©k®]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:38:12 +0200, "GysdeJongh" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"M@©k®" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]. .
>
>eat more red meat, saturated fat and sit on your but

what are you on about?

[Trinkwasser]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:46:25 -0500, "M@©k®" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:38:12 +0200, "GysdeJongh" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>"M@©k®" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected] ..
>>
>>eat more red meat, saturated fat and sit on your but
>
>what are you on about?

he's evolving into Tom