Club Membership Renewed

On Thu, 08 May 2008 14:07:57 +1000, Alan S
<loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 07 May 2008 20:47:59 -0600, Tiger_Lily
><me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>vitamin D is essential to absorption of calcium...........not 'just
>>calcium' but a 'bone building calcium' product that contains manganese,
>>Vit D, etc etc
>>
>No argument - my question was related to the fact that vit D
>is also related to sunlight absorption and much less likely
>to be deficient in my locality.
>
>>but ask her Dr if she should be taking a product like this while healing
>>(makes sense that it would be a good idea, but ya never know, eh)
>
>Will do if it's needed.

This is interesting, we're having a heatwave and mother is an order of
magnitude less wobbly. When it starts to rain again (as surely it
will) I will observe the results. She already takes a calcium
supplement for osteoporosis and a multivitamin with iron so should be
covered anyway.

Of course it might just be the increased heat freeing up her joints
(DON'T get old!)

On Thu, 08 May 2008 20:52:51 +1200, Quentin Grady
<quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:


> I'm impressed with the power of your logic. Your hypothesis does
>provide a good explanation of why some people gradually degenerate and
>other people don't. The one's who don't are those who engage in
>something like yoga or steps or lift weights. They also belong to
>clubs that get them out and about. In the mental area they play games
>like bridge which keeps their minds lively. The social activity also
>helps them. Without these they are likely to die of boredom. IMHO
>boredom ought to be on many death certificates but doctors have yet to
>recognize it.

I go both ways here, my midbrain likes routine and my
neurotransmitters/endocrines can freak out otherwise.

Meanwhile my cortex dies without sufficient stimulation.



Time
(Mason, Waters, Wright, Gilmour) 7:06

Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way.
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way.

Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.

So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again.
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time.
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over,
Thought I'd something more to say.

Trinkwasser wrote:
> On Thu, 08 May 2008 14:07:57 +1000, Alan S
> <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 07 May 2008 20:47:59 -0600, Tiger_Lily
>> <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> vitamin D is essential to absorption of calcium...........not 'just
>>> calcium' but a 'bone building calcium' product that contains manganese,
>>> Vit D, etc etc
>>>
>> No argument - my question was related to the fact that vit D
>> is also related to sunlight absorption and much less likely
>> to be deficient in my locality.
>>
>>> but ask her Dr if she should be taking a product like this while healing
>>> (makes sense that it would be a good idea, but ya never know, eh)
>> Will do if it's needed.
>
> This is interesting, we're having a heatwave and mother is an order of
> magnitude less wobbly. When it starts to rain again (as surely it
> will) I will observe the results. She already takes a calcium
> supplement for osteoporosis and a multivitamin with iron so should be
> covered anyway.
>
> Of course it might just be the increased heat freeing up her joints
> (DON'T get old!)

the calcium should state on the package 'bone building forumla' and
contain the maganese, vit D and other vitamins needed for calcium
absorbtion (this from the guy running the bone density clinic on Monday)


--
kate
type 1 since 1987
www.diabetic-talk.org

Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 08 May 2008 09:12:27 +1000, Alan S
> <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

>>Everything I read at the moment indicates that D
>>supplementation may be useful to all, not just the elderly.
>>However, the vast majority of those reports are from the
>>Northern latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere. I'm dubious
>>that that is relevant living where I live.

> The requirement is 10-15mins daily on more than face and hands at
> 52deg. I expect you exceed that by quite a margin :P

Colour of the skin matters too. That's why there are more pale-skinned
blondes and red heads in Northern latitudes. Evolution in action
improving the efficiency with which their skin can collect the
beneficial effects of sunlight. Being bald also adds a good amount of
extra bare skin area well oriented to catch the sun's rays. So being a
pale skinned bald Scot I'm a very efficient solar collector :-)

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

On Thu, 08 May 2008 14:20:32 -0600, Tiger_Lily <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>Trinkwasser wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 May 2008 14:07:57 +1000, Alan S
>> <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 07 May 2008 20:47:59 -0600, Tiger_Lily
>>> <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> vitamin D is essential to absorption of calcium...........not 'just
>>>> calcium' but a 'bone building calcium' product that contains manganese,
>>>> Vit D, etc etc
>>>>
>>> No argument - my question was related to the fact that vit D
>>> is also related to sunlight absorption and much less likely
>>> to be deficient in my locality.
>>>
>>>> but ask her Dr if she should be taking a product like this while healing
>>>> (makes sense that it would be a good idea, but ya never know, eh)
>>> Will do if it's needed.
>>
>> This is interesting, we're having a heatwave and mother is an order of
>> magnitude less wobbly. When it starts to rain again (as surely it
>> will) I will observe the results. She already takes a calcium
>> supplement for osteoporosis and a multivitamin with iron so should be
>> covered anyway.
>>
>> Of course it might just be the increased heat freeing up her joints
>> (DON'T get old!)
>
>the calcium should state on the package 'bone building forumla' and
>contain the maganese, vit D and other vitamins needed for calcium
>absorbtion (this from the guy running the bone density clinic on Monday)

Oh yes it's proper genuine stuff which she is prescribed, alternating
with alendronic acid once per month (I think).

On Thu, 08 May 2008 19:21:34 +0100, Trinkwasser
<spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 08 May 2008 20:52:51 +1200, Quentin Grady
><quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
>
>> I'm impressed with the power of your logic. Your hypothesis does
>>provide a good explanation of why some people gradually degenerate and
>>other people don't. The one's who don't are those who engage in
>>something like yoga or steps or lift weights. They also belong to
>>clubs that get them out and about. In the mental area they play games
>>like bridge which keeps their minds lively. The social activity also
>>helps them. Without these they are likely to die of boredom. IMHO
>>boredom ought to be on many death certificates but doctors have yet to
>>recognize it.
>
>I go both ways here, my midbrain likes routine and my
>neurotransmitters/endocrines can freak out otherwise.
>
>Meanwhile my cortex dies without sufficient stimulation.
>
>
>
>Time
>(Mason, Waters, Wright, Gilmour) 7:06
>
>Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
>You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way.
>Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
>Waiting for someone or something to show you the way.
>
>Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
>You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
>And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
>No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
>
>So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
>Racing around to come up behind you again.
>The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
>Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.
>
>Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time.
>Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
>Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
>The time is gone, the song is over,
>Thought I'd something more to say.

Beautiful poem. Thank you.
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Trinkwasser wrote:
> On Thu, 08 May 2008 14:20:32 -0600, Tiger_Lily <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> Trinkwasser wrote:
>>> On Thu, 08 May 2008 14:07:57 +1000, Alan S
>>> <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 07 May 2008 20:47:59 -0600, Tiger_Lily
>>>> <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> vitamin D is essential to absorption of calcium...........not 'just
>>>>> calcium' but a 'bone building calcium' product that contains manganese,
>>>>> Vit D, etc etc
>>>>>
>>>> No argument - my question was related to the fact that vit D
>>>> is also related to sunlight absorption and much less likely
>>>> to be deficient in my locality.
>>>>
>>>>> but ask her Dr if she should be taking a product like this while healing
>>>>> (makes sense that it would be a good idea, but ya never know, eh)
>>>> Will do if it's needed.
>>> This is interesting, we're having a heatwave and mother is an order of
>>> magnitude less wobbly. When it starts to rain again (as surely it
>>> will) I will observe the results. She already takes a calcium
>>> supplement for osteoporosis and a multivitamin with iron so should be
>>> covered anyway.
>>>
>>> Of course it might just be the increased heat freeing up her joints
>>> (DON'T get old!)
>> the calcium should state on the package 'bone building forumla' and
>> contain the maganese, vit D and other vitamins needed for calcium
>> absorbtion (this from the guy running the bone density clinic on Monday)
>
> Oh yes it's proper genuine stuff which she is prescribed, alternating
> with alendronic acid once per month (I think).
oh good

insurance doesn't pay for a calcium supplement, so we are left to go
find the 'right thing' on our own

sigh

--
kate
type 1 since 1987
www.diabetic-talk.org

Trinkwasser <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 7 May 2008 09:59:21 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
> wrote:


>>So I also make a point of incorporating opportunities to practise
>>balance into my daily life. I've deliberately left the coffee jar at
>>an awkward place in the kitchen which means I have to balance on one
>>leg and reach far out with my arm, balancing myself with the other leg
>>outstretched at the other side, to get the coffee. I can stabilise
>>myself with the other hand, but I avoid doing that unless it's really
>>necessary. Which means I do a difficult balancing exercise every
>>morning :-)

> Hehe, sounds like me putting my socks on

That's a good point: putting on socks and shoes offers an everyday
opportunity to practice balance by trying to do it while standing on
one leg. It may not be easy, in fact it may be impossible, but
regularly trying to do it ought to produce some useful improvement.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

In article <68l9k3F2t76teU1@mid.individual.net>,
Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> Trinkwasser <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:
> > On 7 May 2008 09:59:21 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
>
>
> >>So I also make a point of incorporating opportunities to practise
> >>balance into my daily life. I've deliberately left the coffee jar at
> >>an awkward place in the kitchen which means I have to balance on one
> >>leg and reach far out with my arm, balancing myself with the other leg
> >>outstretched at the other side, to get the coffee. I can stabilise
> >>myself with the other hand, but I avoid doing that unless it's really
> >>necessary. Which means I do a difficult balancing exercise every
> >>morning :-)
>
> > Hehe, sounds like me putting my socks on
>
> That's a good point: putting on socks and shoes offers an everyday
> opportunity to practice balance by trying to do it while standing on
> one leg. It may not be easy, in fact it may be impossible, but
> regularly trying to do it ought to produce some useful improvement.

When I'm waiting for my food at the take-out place in my building at
work (they'll do any sandwich breadless, with a huge mound of baby
greens), I practice standing on one foot. Mostly, people don't even
notice! And it does make a difference if I stumble over a curb.

--
"[xxx] has very definite opinions, and does not suffer fools lightly.
This, apparently, upsets the fools."
---BB cuts to the pith of a flame-fest

John <jcarney44@verizon.net> wrote:

>Congrats on the great numbers. BTW, what was your HDL number?

Finally getting around to pulling the paper out of the file

In 90 days:
HDL went from 39.1 to 47.0
LDL from 84.4 to 59.4
Triglycerides from 88.5 to 68.8
Total Cholesterol from 141 to 120.

Think I gotta go have a rib eye steak!

.....and make ready for both daughters to make an early Memorial Day visit
to family graves.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

Tiger_Lily <me@privacy.net> wrote:
: Trinkwasser wrote:
: > On Thu, 08 May 2008 14:20:32 -0600, Tiger_Lily <me@privacy.net> wrote:
: >
: >> Trinkwasser wrote:
: >>> On Thu, 08 May 2008 14:07:57 +1000, Alan S
: >>> <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
: >>>
: >>>> On Wed, 07 May 2008 20:47:59 -0600, Tiger_Lily
: >>>> <me@privacy.net> wrote:
: >>>>
: >>>>> vitamin D is essential to absorption of calcium...........not 'just
: >>>>> calcium' but a 'bone building calcium' product that contains manganese,
: >>>>> Vit D, etc etc
: >>>>>
: >>>> No argument - my question was related to the fact that vit D
: >>>> is also related to sunlight absorption and much less likely
: >>>> to be deficient in my locality.
: >>>>
: >>>>> but ask her Dr if she should be taking a product like this while healing
: >>>>> (makes sense that it would be a good idea, but ya never know, eh)
: >>>> Will do if it's needed.
: >>> This is interesting, we're having a heatwave and mother is an order of
: >>> magnitude less wobbly. When it starts to rain again (as surely it
: >>> will) I will observe the results. She already takes a calcium
: >>> supplement for osteoporosis and a multivitamin with iron so should be
: >>> covered anyway.
: >>>
: >>> Of course it might just be the increased heat freeing up her joints
: >>> (DON'T get old!)
: >> the calcium should state on the package 'bone building forumla' and
: >> contain the maganese, vit D and other vitamins needed for calcium
: >> absorbtion (this from the guy running the bone density clinic on Monday)
: >
: > Oh yes it's proper genuine stuff which she is prescribed, alternating
: > with alendronic acid once per month (I think).
: oh good

: insurance doesn't pay for a calcium supplement, so we are left to go
: find the 'right thing' on our own

: sigh

: --
: kate
: type 1 since 1987
: www.diabetic-talk.org

They don't pay for it here in the US also, but my endo , after looking at
my bone scan put me on generic ofossamax 1 time a week, calcium citrate
with vitamin D- 4 giant pills a day and 2000 units of vitamin D(I found a
single pill with that amount of D3, which Susan had recmmended.)

Wendy

Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
: Trinkwasser <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:
: > On 7 May 2008 09:59:21 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
: > wrote:


: >>So I also make a point of incorporating opportunities to practise
: >>balance into my daily life. I've deliberately left the coffee jar at
: >>an awkward place in the kitchen which means I have to balance on one
: >>leg and reach far out with my arm, balancing myself with the other leg
: >>outstretched at the other side, to get the coffee. I can stabilise
: >>myself with the other hand, but I avoid doing that unless it's really
: >>necessary. Which means I do a difficult balancing exercise every
: >>morning :-)

: > Hehe, sounds like me putting my socks on

: That's a good point: putting on socks and shoes offers an everyday
: opportunity to practice balance by trying to do it while standing on
: one leg. It may not be easy, in fact it may be impossible, but
: regularly trying to do it ought to produce some useful improvement.

: --
: Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
: IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
: [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Just try that with support hose adn you lnd flat on your back!

Wendy

On Sat, 10 May 2008 14:44:16 -0400, Gary Woods
<garyusenet@earthlink.net> wrote:

>John <jcarney44@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Congrats on the great numbers. BTW, what was your HDL number?
>
>Finally getting around to pulling the paper out of the file
>
>In 90 days:
>HDL went from 39.1 to 47.0
>LDL from 84.4 to 59.4
>Triglycerides from 88.5 to 68.8
>Total Cholesterol from 141 to 120.

Wow!! What are you doing again, Gary?

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

On Sat, 10 May 2008 06:22:55 +1200, Quentin Grady
<quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>On Thu, 08 May 2008 19:21:34 +0100, Trinkwasser
><spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 08 May 2008 20:52:51 +1200, Quentin Grady
>><quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I'm impressed with the power of your logic. Your hypothesis does
>>>provide a good explanation of why some people gradually degenerate and
>>>other people don't. The one's who don't are those who engage in
>>>something like yoga or steps or lift weights. They also belong to
>>>clubs that get them out and about. In the mental area they play games
>>>like bridge which keeps their minds lively. The social activity also
>>>helps them. Without these they are likely to die of boredom. IMHO
>>>boredom ought to be on many death certificates but doctors have yet to
>>>recognize it.
>>
>>I go both ways here, my midbrain likes routine and my
>>neurotransmitters/endocrines can freak out otherwise.
>>
>>Meanwhile my cortex dies without sufficient stimulation.
>>
>>
>>
>>Time
>>(Mason, Waters, Wright, Gilmour) 7:06
>>
>>Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
>>You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way.
>>Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
>>Waiting for someone or something to show you the way.
>>
>>Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
>>You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
>>And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
>>No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
>>
>>So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
>>Racing around to come up behind you again.
>>The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
>>Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.
>>
>>Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time.
>>Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
>>Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
>>The time is gone, the song is over,
>>Thought I'd something more to say.
>
>Beautiful poem. Thank you.

Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon

(say DUH!)

On 10 May 2008 09:53:07 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
wrote:

>Trinkwasser <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On 7 May 2008 09:59:21 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
>> wrote:
>
>
>>>So I also make a point of incorporating opportunities to practise
>>>balance into my daily life. I've deliberately left the coffee jar at
>>>an awkward place in the kitchen which means I have to balance on one
>>>leg and reach far out with my arm, balancing myself with the other leg
>>>outstretched at the other side, to get the coffee. I can stabilise
>>>myself with the other hand, but I avoid doing that unless it's really
>>>necessary. Which means I do a difficult balancing exercise every
>>>morning :-)
>
>> Hehe, sounds like me putting my socks on
>
>That's a good point: putting on socks and shoes offers an everyday
>opportunity to practice balance by trying to do it while standing on
>one leg. It may not be easy, in fact it may be impossible, but
>regularly trying to do it ought to produce some useful improvement.

I can still do quite well on one leg but the other one (which I
buggered up in a parachuting accident) is a tad more challenging.

Keeps me on my toes though

<runs away>

On Sun, 11 May 2008 15:52:36 +0100, Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 10 May 2008 14:44:16 -0400, Gary Woods
><garyusenet@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>John <jcarney44@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Congrats on the great numbers. BTW, what was your HDL number?
>>
>>Finally getting around to pulling the paper out of the file
>>
>>In 90 days:
>>HDL went from 39.1 to 47.0
>>LDL from 84.4 to 59.4
>>Triglycerides from 88.5 to 68.8
>>Total Cholesterol from 141 to 120.
>
>Wow!! What are you doing again, Gary?

Yup, I want some too.

On Fri, 09 May 2008 21:05:19 -0600, Tiger_Lily <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>Trinkwasser wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 May 2008 14:20:32 -0600, Tiger_Lily <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>

>>> the calcium should state on the package 'bone building forumla' and
>>> contain the maganese, vit D and other vitamins needed for calcium
>>> absorbtion (this from the guy running the bone density clinic on Monday)
>>
>> Oh yes it's proper genuine stuff which she is prescribed, alternating
>> with alendronic acid once per month (I think).
>oh good
>
>insurance doesn't pay for a calcium supplement, so we are left to go
>find the 'right thing' on our own

I can sell you some

<scrapes inside of kettle>

Trinkwasser wrote:
> On Sat, 10 May 2008 06:22:55 +1200, Quentin Grady
> <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 08 May 2008 19:21:34 +0100, Trinkwasser
>> <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 08 May 2008 20:52:51 +1200, Quentin Grady
>>> <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm impressed with the power of your logic. Your hypothesis does
>>>> provide a good explanation of why some people gradually degenerate and
>>>> other people don't. The one's who don't are those who engage in
>>>> something like yoga or steps or lift weights. They also belong to
>>>> clubs that get them out and about. In the mental area they play games
>>>> like bridge which keeps their minds lively. The social activity also
>>>> helps them. Without these they are likely to die of boredom. IMHO
>>>> boredom ought to be on many death certificates but doctors have yet to
>>>> recognize it.
>>> I go both ways here, my midbrain likes routine and my
>>> neurotransmitters/endocrines can freak out otherwise.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile my cortex dies without sufficient stimulation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Time
>>> (Mason, Waters, Wright, Gilmour) 7:06
>>>
>>> Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
>>> You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way.
>>> Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
>>> Waiting for someone or something to show you the way.
>>>
>>> Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
>>> You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
>>> And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
>>> No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
>>>
>>> So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
>>> Racing around to come up behind you again.
>>> The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
>>> Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.
>>>
>>> Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time.
>>> Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
>>> Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
>>> The time is gone, the song is over,
>>> Thought I'd something more to say.
>> Beautiful poem. Thank you.
>
> Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon
>
> (say DUH!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntm1YfehK7U

Vicki
"Dark Side of the Moon" is the greatest album ever made, IMO.

percy wrote:
> Trinkwasser wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 May 2008 06:22:55 +1200, Quentin Grady
>> <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 08 May 2008 19:21:34 +0100, Trinkwasser
>>> <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 08 May 2008 20:52:51 +1200, Quentin Grady
>>>> <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm impressed with the power of your logic. Your hypothesis does
>>>>> provide a good explanation of why some people gradually degenerate and
>>>>> other people don't. The one's who don't are those who engage in
>>>>> something like yoga or steps or lift weights. They also belong to
>>>>> clubs that get them out and about. In the mental area they play games
>>>>> like bridge which keeps their minds lively. The social activity also
>>>>> helps them. Without these they are likely to die of boredom. IMHO
>>>>> boredom ought to be on many death certificates but doctors have yet to
>>>>> recognize it.
>>>> I go both ways here, my midbrain likes routine and my
>>>> neurotransmitters/endocrines can freak out otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile my cortex dies without sufficient stimulation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Time
>>>> (Mason, Waters, Wright, Gilmour) 7:06
>>>>
>>>> Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
>>>> You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way.
>>>> Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
>>>> Waiting for someone or something to show you the way.
>>>>
>>>> Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
>>>> You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
>>>> And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
>>>> No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
>>>>
>>>> So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
>>>> Racing around to come up behind you again.
>>>> The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
>>>> Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.
>>>>
>>>> Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time.
>>>> Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
>>>> Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
>>>> The time is gone, the song is over,
>>>> Thought I'd something more to say.
>>> Beautiful poem. Thank you.
>>
>> Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon
>>
>> (say DUH!)
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntm1YfehK7U
>
> Vicki
> "Dark Side of the Moon" is the greatest album ever made, IMO.

Crap! Wrong version. Above is live. This one is from the album.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V71M...eature=related

Vicki

On Sat, 10 May 2008 14:44:16 -0400, Gary Woods
<garyusenet@earthlink.net> wrote:

>John <jcarney44@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Congrats on the great numbers. BTW, what was your HDL number?
>
>Finally getting around to pulling the paper out of the file
>
>In 90 days:
>HDL went from 39.1 to 47.0
>LDL from 84.4 to 59.4
>Triglycerides from 88.5 to 68.8
>Total Cholesterol from 141 to 120.

Oooh Oooh compulsive obsessive behavior rears its head.
I simply have to calculate your TG:HDL ratios. I'm not a doctor or in
any way connected with the medical profession. Calculating TG:HDL
ratios is just a hobby amongst T2 diabetics to monitor their progress.
IMO, it is far more meaningful than A1c.

Previous ratio = 88.5:39.1 = 2.3
Present ratio = 68.8:47.0 = 1.5

What this means is that you had a good ratio 90 days ago. Being less
than 3.0 many people would have slapped themselves on the back
assuming they could reach and not sought further improvement. Though
you know doubt had other priorities on your mind you have never the
less made considerable improvement. Put simply your current TG:HDL
ratio is excellent showing a marked reduction in insulin resistance.
Another likely benefit is that the LDL which you have much less of
anyway has a higher percentage of the less harmful fluffy larger sort
than the small nasty stuff that is twice as dangerous.

>Think I gotta go have a rib eye steak!

I think you deserve it.

Either that or tonight's prize for inspiring others

>....and make ready for both daughters to make an early Memorial Day visit
>to family graves.
>
>
>Gary Woods

Best wishes and congratulations,
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Quentin Grady wrote:

> Oooh Oooh compulsive obsessive behavior rears its head.
> I simply have to calculate your TG:HDL ratios. I'm not a doctor or in
> any way connected with the medical profession. Calculating TG:HDL
> ratios is just a hobby amongst T2 diabetics to monitor their progress.
> IMO, it is far more meaningful than A1c.
>
> Previous ratio = 88.5:39.1 = 2.3
> Present ratio = 68.8:47.0 = 1.5
>
> What this means is that you had a good ratio 90 days ago. Being less
> than 3.0 many people would have slapped themselves on the back
> assuming they could reach and not sought further improvement. Though
> you know doubt had other priorities on your mind you have never the
> less made considerable improvement. Put simply your current TG:HDL
> ratio is excellent showing a marked reduction in insulin resistance.
> Another likely benefit is that the LDL which you have much less of
> anyway has a higher percentage of the less harmful fluffy larger sort
> than the small nasty stuff that is twice as dangerous.

One advantage of the TG:HDL ratio is that it's components are typical
assessments used at the clinical level and the ratio itself is
considered a rough measure of insulin resistance. Some excerpts below
go into the topic of measuring insulin resistance in more depth.

"The gold standard technique, the euglycemic-hyperinsulinemic glucose
clamp (7), measures insulin-mediated glucose disposal by peripheral
tissues. The clamp is labor intensive and burdensome for subjects,
precluding routine use. Other direct measures of insulin resistance,
such as the steady-state plasma glucose (SSPG) test (8,9) and the
frequently sampled intravenous glucose tolerance test (10), also
primarily measure whole-body glucose disposal and are similarly labor
intensive. Indirect markers of insulin resistance, such as serum insulin
concentrations, BMI, waist circumference, and serum triacylglycerol
concentrations, have limited utility. BMI, for example, is not a good
surrogate for insulin resistance, as 16% of individuals with insulin
resistance are lean, whereas 30% of insulin-sensitive individuals are
obese or overweight (11). Other surrogate measures model the
relationship between glucose and insulin. The homeostasis model
assessment (HOMA) (12,13), quantitative insulin sensitivity check index
(QUICKI) (14), and models based on the oral glucose tolerance test (15)
have correlated well with the clamp in some studies, but, often, the
correlation has been poor (r2 = ~0.50) (16–19), especially in
normal-weight individuals (19). Attempts to define a clinical entity
(i.e., the metabolic syndrome) (20) or combine parameters (e.g., BMI and
HOMA of insulin resistance) (21) to establish insulin resistance have
proven to be insensitive for detecting it (22,23) and do not provide a
continuous measure for monitoring treatment response (21)." Source:
Whole-Body Glycolysis Measured by the Deuterated-Glucose Disposal Test
Correlates Highly With Insulin Resistance In Vivo -
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi...full/30/5/1143

Some other limitations to indirect measure of insulin resistance:
"ATP III criteria for identification of insulin resistance
ATP III guidelines (3) recommended that clinical diagnosis of the
insulin resistance syndrome require the presence of three or more of the
following components: abdominal obesity (waist circumference >102 cm in
men and >88 cm in women), elevated blood pressure level (systolic blood
pressure >=130 mmHg or diastolic blood pressure >=85 mmHg), elevated
triglycerides (>=150 mg/dl), decreased HDL cholesterol (<40 mg/dl in men
and <50 mg/dl in women), and elevated fasting glucose (110–125
mg/dl).[...] The poor sensitivity of ATP III criteria for identifying
insulin resistance could indicate that a significant number of people
are insulin resistant but do not exhibit the metabolic syndrome trait
complex. To explore this possibility, we assessed cardiovascular risk
factors, including NMR (nuclear magnetic resonance) lipoprotein subclass
parameters associated with insulin resistance (13) in three groups of
subjects: those who met ATP III criteria (ATP III+), insulin-resistant
individuals (GDR <12 mg · kg-1 · min-1) who did not meet ATP III
criteria (ATP III-), and those who were ATP III- and insulin sensitive
(GDR >=12 mg · kg-1 · min-1) (Table 3). Approximately one-third (20 of
65) of subjects who did not meet ATP III criteria were insulin
resistant. Importantly, compared with the insulin-sensitive subgroup,
these ATP III- insulin-resistant subjects had significantly worse
cardiovascular disease risk factors, including significantly greater
mean BMI, waist circumference, triglycerides, and fasting glucose. They
also had unfavorable NMR lipoprotein subclass measures such as increased
large VLDL concentration and VLDL size, increased total LDL
concentration (mainly due to an increment in small to intermediate LDL
particles), decreased LDL particle size, and decreased large HDL
particles, and HDL size (all P < 0.05) (Table 3 and Fig. 2). In
addition, 20% of the insulin-resistant subjects who did not meet ATP III
criteria had IGT (by 2-h glucose criteria). Hence, ATP III criteria
failed to identify many insulin-resistant individuals who have an
adverse cardiovascular disease risk profile, including dyslipidemia as
manifested by the NMR lipoprotein subclass analysis." Source: Critical
Evaluation of Adult Treatment Panel III Criteria in Identifying Insulin
Resistance With Dyslipidemia -
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi.../full/27/4/978

For most of the last 7 years my TG/HDL ratio has been less than 1 in
mg/dl. The following abstract goes into abnormal albumin excretion as a
factor in insulin resistance. Having a good TG/HDL ratio is not enough.
Insulin resistance and abnormal albumin excretion in non-diabetic
first-degree relatives of patients with NIDDM. -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7758885

Frank