Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?

[Larry from N.J.]

Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?

Came across this article today. Click link



--
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968350116467

[MaryL]

"Larry from N.J." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]..
> Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
>
> Came across this article today. Click link
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968350116467
>

The "information" in this article is idiotic and dangerous. For example,
look at this statement: "Indeed, the doctor said there is virtually nothing
type 2 diabetics can do about the results of their blood tests, which
Canadian medical guidelines still recommend once a day." Speaking for
myself, testing is what enabled me to change my diet and bring my BG under
control (and have not needed any medication for a year and a half).

MaryL

[Peter G. \(Bigbird\)]

"MaryL" <[email protected]> wrote in message
newsew_g.6873$fl.163@dukeread08...
>
> "Larry from N.J." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]..
>> Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
>>
>> Came across this article today. Click link
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968350116467
>>
>
> The "information" in this article is idiotic and dangerous. For example,
> look at this statement: "Indeed, the doctor said there is virtually
> nothing type 2 diabetics can do about the results of their blood tests,
> which Canadian medical guidelines still recommend once a day." Speaking
> for myself, testing is what enabled me to change my diet and bring my BG
> under control (and have not needed any medication for a year and a half).
>
> MaryL

I absolutely agree! Informed use of testing results is essential to good
control in T1 *and* T2 diabetics. it's ridiculous to say there is nothing a
T2 can do about the results of there testing. I think virtually every T2
here puts the lie to that statement.
--
Peter G.
(bigbird)

[Roger Zoul]

Peter G. (Bigbird) wrote:
:: "MaryL" <[email protected]> wrote in message
:: newsew_g.6873$fl.163@dukeread08...
:::
::: "Larry from N.J." <[email protected]> wrote in message
::: news[email protected]..
:::: Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
::::
:::: Came across this article today. Click link
::::
::::
::::
:::: --
::::
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968350116467
::::
:::
::: The "information" in this article is idiotic and dangerous. For
::: example, look at this statement: "Indeed, the doctor said there is
::: virtually nothing type 2 diabetics can do about the results of
::: their blood tests, which Canadian medical guidelines still
::: recommend once a day." Speaking for myself, testing is what
::: enabled me to change my diet and bring my BG under control (and
::: have not needed any medication for a year and a half).
:::
::: MaryL
::
:: I absolutely agree! Informed use of testing results is essential to
:: good control in T1 *and* T2 diabetics. it's ridiculous to say there
:: is nothing a T2 can do about the results of there testing. I think
:: virtually every T2 here puts the lie to that statement.

I don't know about you all, but I'm going to send some an e-mail the prof
with the "nay" position. He is in sore need of education. I think they rely
too much on "clinical" studies. At the same time, however, I'm not sure if
his position is totally daff. For the average T2, he may have a point. The
main problem, of course, is education. T2s who get depressed from testing
is a problem. Obviously, this shows just how poor a job the medical
community is doing in properly educating and advising T2s on how to best
deal with diabetes.

Having said all of that, on my low-carb diet with exercise, I don't need to
test everyday. But I came to this position through lots of testing. Bottom
line: testing is very important.

[Will, T2]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:45:32 -0400, "Larry from N.J."
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
>
>Came across this article today. Click link

Looks like a lot of rot to me... Sure, if a T2 is 100% proof positive
in good control, knows what works, and what does not work for
himself/herself, and does not deviate, then they *might* be able to be
comfortable in cutting back on the number of tests a day.... Not
everyone has that luxury. To not test, when there is not absolute good
control, is to invite disaster and the sequelae of uncontrolled
diabetes.

Will, T2

[[email protected]]

Will, T2 wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:45:32 -0400, "Larry from N.J."
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
> >
> >Came across this article today. Click link
>
> Looks like a lot of rot to me... Sure, if a T2 is 100% proof positive
> in good control, knows what works, and what does not work for
> himself/herself, and does not deviate, then they *might* be able to be
> comfortable in cutting back on the number of tests a day.... Not
> everyone has that luxury. To not test, when there is not absolute good
> control, is to invite disaster and the sequelae of uncontrolled
> diabetes.

There's a second part of the equation: if the patient doesn't know how
to use the numbers from the tests to improve control, then indeed there
is not much point in testing.

It's this second part of the equation that seems to be barely (if at
all!) mentioned in the article. This missing
education/knowledge/experience is the real shortcoming, and I think the
article is saying that all the testing in the world won't correct the
inability of someone to use the numbers to his advantage.

Readers of this newsgroup tend to be vastly more educated than your
typical Type 2 or for that matter Type 1. Also certainly more numerate
(relating measurements to reality). Perhaps even obsessively numerate
with respect to bg measurements.

At a certain level, more numbers when you don't understand what to do
with any of the numbers can in fact make any situation more confusing.
Confusion is not a good element to add.

Tim.

[Will, T2]

On 21 Oct 2006 16:39:04 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>At a certain level, more numbers when you don't understand what to do
>with any of the numbers can in fact make any situation more confusing.
>Confusion is not a good element to add.
>
>Tim.

Good point, Tim.

Will, T2

[Will, T2]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:06:25 -0400, "Will, T2" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 21 Oct 2006 16:39:04 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>At a certain level, more numbers when you don't understand what to do
>>with any of the numbers can in fact make any situation more confusing.
>>Confusion is not a good element to add.
>>
>>Tim.
>
>Good point, Tim.
>
>Will, T2


Yes, there obviously has to be more emphasis upon education....
especially as to what spikes T2s into extreme hyperglycemia. I know,
you know.... Does the world know?

Will, T2

[ray]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:45:32 -0400, Larry from N.J. wrote:

> Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
>
> Came across this article today. Click link

I'm type 2 - non-insulin using; I'd rather check daily. If numbers go up -
then I know I've got a problem - that simple.

[[email protected]]

Will, T2 wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:06:25 -0400, "Will, T2" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >On 21 Oct 2006 16:39:04 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >>At a certain level, more numbers when you don't understand what to do
> >>with any of the numbers can in fact make any situation more confusing.
> >>Confusion is not a good element to add.
> >>
> >>Tim.
> >
> >Good point, Tim.
> >
> >Will, T2
>
>
> Yes, there obviously has to be more emphasis upon education....
> especially as to what spikes T2s into extreme hyperglycemia. I know,
> you know.... Does the world know?

I'm not sure that the world agrees with me, or that you agree with me
:-).

I say extreme hyperglycemia (you have to realize that I'm a Type 1 who
went through DKA a quarter-century ago) is a couple consecutive
readings of 400 or 500 or higher. Anything else, I'm not going to say
that I ignore (indeed when I'm fine-tuned every little deviation is
tracked), but is not worth getting too worked up about. My bg was
reported to be 1200 at my diagnosis!

Others here have (via Usenet) diagnosed neuropathy based on a single bg
of 130. So clearly not everybody has the same viewpoint!

It's probably good that not everybody has the same viewpoint, but
others are not so appreciative of a divergence in opinion.

Tim.

[Will, T2]

On 21 Oct 2006 17:28:59 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>I say extreme hyperglycemia (you have to realize that I'm a Type 1 who
>went through DKA a quarter-century ago) is a couple consecutive
>readings of 400 or 500 or higher. Anything else, I'm not going to say
>that I ignore (indeed when I'm fine-tuned every little deviation is
>tracked), but is not worth getting too worked up about. My bg was
>reported to be 1200 at my diagnosis!

Jeez, Tim, that must have been horrible. Indeed, I know people who
have died who had a lower bg at diagnosis. It must have been a very
severe crisis for you. You have my sincere sympathies!

I was only somewhere around 290-300 FBG at dx (a1c was 13), riding up
into the 400-500s sometimes during the day... so I am not the one to
be talking about extreme hyperglycemia, compared to you. Even at that,
I felt like I was dying.

My point was that there are a number of easy to follow rules that T2s
can adopt that allow for relatively quick control of BG, in most
cases... I refer to the things that Jennifer advises in her "newly
diagnosed" page on the asd website.

Anyway, I cannot imagine anyone getting control, without a process of
education, testing, and intelligent adjustment....

Will, T2

[Alan S]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:45:32 -0400, "Larry from N.J."
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
>
>Came across this article today. Click link

He's right when read in this context "In an emerging debate,
many experts now believe that type 2 diabetics — who are not
insulin dependent — are wasting hundreds of millions of
dollars on daily tests that offer them no usable
information."

The critical phrase is "offer them no usable information".
And, if no action is taken as a result of the test, he is
dead right.

Presuming that the test that is done is fasting or pre-meal,
and that the patient sees the doctor about every three
months, then limiting those daily tests to the week before
the quarterly visit would be more than enough to let the
doctor know whether prescriptions need adjustment.

Of course, we here know that it is a quite different
situation if testing is done systematically to change
lifestyles (including diet and exercise) to improve blood
glucose control.

The problem here is that he is not even looking at that
different situation or at why the daily tests are offering
"no usable information".

I also note that this, and the other similar recent report
from Western Australia, both originate in countries which
subsidise testing costs. This comment by him is the critical
one: "Majumdar said testing costs Canadians $300 million a
year". How much of that funding would he prefer to be
diverted to his research grants? How much is supporting his
current position and these comments?

One can cynically expect a similar report to appear in the
UK, Sweden and other countries which also subsidise diabetes
support. Likely they will all cross-reference each other as
well.

His mind is made up. The one to email may be Dr. Ehud Ur,
who appears to be on the "aye" side of the debate.

Is anyone able to provide either email address?

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Tarascon - Chateau du Roi Rene

[Michelle]

"Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> Peter G. (Bigbird) wrote:
> :: "MaryL" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> :: newsew_g.6873$fl.163@dukeread08...
> :::
> ::: "Larry from N.J." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> ::: news[email protected]..
> :::: Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
> ::::
> :::: Came across this article today. Click link
> ::::
> ::::
> ::::
> :::: --
> ::::
> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968350116467
> ::::
> :::
> ::: The "information" in this article is idiotic and dangerous. For
> ::: example, look at this statement: "Indeed, the doctor said there is
> ::: virtually nothing type 2 diabetics can do about the results of
> ::: their blood tests, which Canadian medical guidelines still
> ::: recommend once a day." Speaking for myself, testing is what
> ::: enabled me to change my diet and bring my BG under control (and
> ::: have not needed any medication for a year and a half).
> :::
> ::: MaryL
> ::
> :: I absolutely agree! Informed use of testing results is essential to
> :: good control in T1 *and* T2 diabetics. it's ridiculous to say there
> :: is nothing a T2 can do about the results of there testing. I think
> :: virtually every T2 here puts the lie to that statement.
>
> I don't know about you all, but I'm going to send some an e-mail the prof
> with the "nay" position. He is in sore need of education. I think they
> rely too much on "clinical" studies. At the same time, however, I'm not
> sure if his position is totally daff. For the average T2, he may have a
> point. The main problem, of course, is education. T2s who get depressed
> from testing is a problem. Obviously, this shows just how poor a job the
> medical community is doing in properly educating and advising T2s on how
> to best deal with diabetes.
>
> Having said all of that, on my low-carb diet with exercise, I don't need
> to test everyday. But I came to this position through lots of testing.
> Bottom line: testing is very important.

I'm with you, Roger. I don't test everyday because I know which foods I can
tolerate and which I can't. However, I learned this by doing a ton of
testing. Still, if I eat something new I test, if something unusual is
happening in my life I test, and I spot check just to make sure nothing has
changed. A person may not need to test everyday, but testing can sure tell
you what you're supposed to be doing. The assertion that T2's can't do
anything about a particular BG is just crap!
--
Michelle, T2
diet & exercise

[Roger Zoul]

Alan S wrote:
:: On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:45:32 -0400, "Larry from N.J."
:: <[email protected]> wrote:
::
::: Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
:::
::: Came across this article today. Click link
::
:: He's right when read in this context "In an emerging debate,
:: many experts now believe that type 2 diabetics - who are not
:: insulin dependent - are wasting hundreds of millions of
:: dollars on daily tests that offer them no usable
:: information."
::
:: The critical phrase is "offer them no usable information".
:: And, if no action is taken as a result of the test, he is
:: dead right.
::
:: Presuming that the test that is done is fasting or pre-meal,
:: and that the patient sees the doctor about every three
:: months, then limiting those daily tests to the week before
:: the quarterly visit would be more than enough to let the
:: doctor know whether prescriptions need adjustment.
::
:: Of course, we here know that it is a quite different
:: situation if testing is done systematically to change
:: lifestyles (including diet and exercise) to improve blood
:: glucose control.
::
:: The problem here is that he is not even looking at that
:: different situation or at why the daily tests are offering
:: "no usable information".
::
:: I also note that this, and the other similar recent report
:: from Western Australia, both originate in countries which
:: subsidise testing costs. This comment by him is the critical
:: one: "Majumdar said testing costs Canadians $300 million a
:: year". How much of that funding would he prefer to be
:: diverted to his research grants? How much is supporting his
:: current position and these comments?
::
:: One can cynically expect a similar report to appear in the
:: UK, Sweden and other countries which also subsidise diabetes
:: support. Likely they will all cross-reference each other as
:: well.
::
:: His mind is made up. The one to email may be Dr. Ehud Ur,
:: who appears to be on the "aye" side of the debate.
::
:: Is anyone able to provide either email address?

Dr Sumit Majumdar
Associate Professor
General Internal Medicine
[email protected]

Dr. Ehud Ur
[email protected]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Ozgirl]

Peter G. (Bigbird) wrote:
> "MaryL" <[email protected]> wrote in
message
> newsew_g.6873$fl.163@dukeread08...
>>
>> "Larry from N.J." <[email protected]> wrote
in message
>> news[email protected]..
>>> Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
>>>
>>> Came across this article today. Click link
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968350116467
>>>
>>
>> The "information" in this article is idiotic and
dangerous. For
>> example, look at this statement: "Indeed, the doctor
said there is
>> virtually nothing type 2 diabetics can do about the
results of their
>> blood tests, which Canadian medical guidelines still
recommend once
>> a day." Speaking for myself, testing is what enabled me
to change
>> my diet and bring my BG under control (and have not
needed any
>> medication for a year and a half).
>>
>> MaryL
>
> I absolutely agree! Informed use of testing results is
essential to
> good control in T1 *and* T2 diabetics. it's ridiculous to
say there
> is nothing a T2 can do about the results of there testing.
I think
> virtually every T2 here puts the lie to that statement.

I think so too. I can't imagine the type 2's in here looking
at a test result, post prandially, and saying oh, I can't do
anything about that spike so I won't bother changing diet,
meds, exercise levels etc.

I think there would be few if any in here who would ignore
spiking that goes on for over a week (after discounting
known stressors and infections etc).

[Alan S]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:28:44 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>:: Is anyone able to provide either email address?
>
> Dr Sumit Majumdar
> Associate Professor
> General Internal Medicine
> [email protected]
>
> Dr. Ehud Ur
> [email protected]

Thank you.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Tarascon - Chateau du Roi Rene

[Chris Malcolm]

Larry from N.J. <[email protected]> wrote:

> Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?

> Came across this article today. Click link

> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968350116467

What I find particularly bone-headed is the idea that there is a
certain frequency of testing which will be needed for a certain kind
of diabetes. In the first six months after diagnosis I often tested
several times a day, sometimes more than a dozen. I needed to do that
in order to find out exactly how my own personal BG responded to
various kinds and combinations of food and exercise. I could have used
a lot more, and found out what was going on a lot quicker, if my
doctor's strip prescribing hadn't been limited by official policy
about how many I "needed". I did spend over a couple of hundred pounds
on extra strips in the early days, just to speed up the learning
process. As it is, the BG control I managed to achieve after several
months testing could have been achieved in a few weeks, if I'd been
given as many strips as I wanted.

I now test less than once a week, because that's all I need to do to
in a well established routine to check that things are still behaving
the way I expect them to. But if anything changed my routine a lot,
such as getting a new job or house, I'd have to start testing a lot
again to find out how I reacted to the new routines and food sources.

It's also a personal thing. Having spent many years teaching students
how to design experiments, collect experimental data, and analyse the
results, I can make sense of lots of data, whereas my diabetic Mum
often got very confused when her doctor's requested two tests a day
started giving unexpected results.

--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

[TigerLily]

please note the funding for test strips is out of
private insurance only in Canada......... it's not
from the socialized medicine that covers only your
Dr's visits, lab reports and hospital
stay/entrance

kate
--
Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet
/server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk
More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/
http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm
I have no medical qualifications beyond my own
experience.
Choose your advisers carefully, because experience
can be
an expensive teacher.

"Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]..
> Alan S wrote:
> :: On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:45:32 -0400, "Larry
from N.J."
> :: <[email protected]> wrote:
> ::
> ::: Is daily test needed for all types of
diabetes?
> :::
> ::: Came across this article today. Click link
> ::
> :: He's right when read in this context "In an
emerging debate,
> :: many experts now believe that type 2
diabetics - who are not
> :: insulin dependent - are wasting hundreds of
millions of
> :: dollars on daily tests that offer them no
usable
> :: information."
> ::
> :: The critical phrase is "offer them no usable
information".
> :: And, if no action is taken as a result of the
test, he is
> :: dead right.
> ::
> :: Presuming that the test that is done is
fasting or pre-meal,
> :: and that the patient sees the doctor about
every three
> :: months, then limiting those daily tests to
the week before
> :: the quarterly visit would be more than enough
to let the
> :: doctor know whether prescriptions need
adjustment.
> ::
> :: Of course, we here know that it is a quite
different
> :: situation if testing is done systematically
to change
> :: lifestyles (including diet and exercise) to
improve blood
> :: glucose control.
> ::
> :: The problem here is that he is not even
looking at that
> :: different situation or at why the daily tests
are offering
> :: "no usable information".
> ::
> :: I also note that this, and the other similar
recent report
> :: from Western Australia, both originate in
countries which
> :: subsidise testing costs. This comment by him
is the critical
> :: one: "Majumdar said testing costs Canadians
$300 million a
> :: year". How much of that funding would he
prefer to be
> :: diverted to his research grants? How much is
supporting his
> :: current position and these comments?
> ::
> :: One can cynically expect a similar report to
appear in the
> :: UK, Sweden and other countries which also
subsidise diabetes
> :: support. Likely they will all cross-reference
each other as
> :: well.
> ::
> :: His mind is made up. The one to email may be
Dr. Ehud Ur,
> :: who appears to be on the "aye" side of the
debate.
> ::
> :: Is anyone able to provide either email
address?
>
> Dr Sumit Majumdar
> Associate Professor
> General Internal Medicine
> [email protected]
>
> Dr. Ehud Ur
> [email protected]
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------
--------------------------
>
>
>
>

[Alan S]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:13:16 -0600, "TigerLily"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>please note the funding for test strips is out of
>private insurance only in Canada......... it's not
>from the socialized medicine that covers only your
>Dr's visits, lab reports and hospital
>stay/entrance
>
>kate

Thanks Kate

Makes you wonder what his problem is.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Tarascon - Chateau du Roi Rene

[TigerLily]

no kidding Alan

but if it's anything like my neighbour across the
street

he was told to test ONCE a day, in the morning,
and he's
told that his reading of 14 is 'good for you'

sigh :-(

he's never been told what numbers to aim for, nor
how foods
affect his bg readings (pardon me, he got given
the list of free
veggies by me when he was diagnosed, so he has
some idea)

he doesn't want to hear anything else from me now
that his Dr has
given him full approval of his 14 am fasting level
:-(

and they wonder why he was in hospital with CHF
this summer

sigh

kate
--
Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet
/server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk
More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/
http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm
I have no medical qualifications beyond my own
experience.
Choose your advisers carefully, because experience
can be
an expensive teacher.

"Alan S" <[email protected]> wrote
in message
news:[email protected]..
> On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:13:16 -0600, "TigerLily"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >please note the funding for test strips is out
of
> >private insurance only in Canada......... it's
not
> >from the socialized medicine that covers only
your
> >Dr's visits, lab reports and hospital
> >stay/entrance
> >
> >kate
>
> Thanks Kate
>
> Makes you wonder what his problem is.
>
> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
> Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
> --
> http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
> latest: Tarascon - Chateau du Roi Rene

[Alan S]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:21:15 -0600, "TigerLily"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>no kidding Alan
>
>but if it's anything like my neighbour across the
>street
>
>he was told to test ONCE a day, in the morning,
>and he's
>told that his reading of 14 is 'good for you'
>
>sigh :-(
>
>he's never been told what numbers to aim for, nor
>how foods
>affect his bg readings (pardon me, he got given
>the list of free
>veggies by me when he was diagnosed, so he has
>some idea)
>
>he doesn't want to hear anything else from me now
>that his Dr has
>given him full approval of his 14 am fasting level
>:-(
>
>and they wonder why he was in hospital with CHF
>this summer
>
Caused by excessive testing? Blood loss?

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Tarascon - Chateau du Roi Rene

[MI]

On 10/22/06 2:13 PM, in article [email protected], "TigerLily"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> please note the funding for test strips is out of
> private insurance only in Canada......... it's not
> from the socialized medicine that covers only your
> Dr's visits, lab reports and hospital
> stay/entrance
>
> kate
Well I am finally "outed". A very quick overview of my condition. I'll
give you the meds in my sig to cut things short. I am type 2 diagnosed in
1987. Last A1C was 6.3, taken when I had pneumonia. Another one coming up in
November.

Tiger Lily is correct as far as Alberta is concerned. There are three
provinces that cover prescriptions but we aren't all the same. In British
Columbia where I am after we pay our deductible (which is income based) we
get our strips for nothing. Before they changed the rules we had a
prescription how many strips a day we could use and there was no deductible.
Now we can have as many strips as we need. I use 4-8 strips a day depending
on how I feel I need to test. I have used more on occasion.

Martha T2, Canada
2000mg Metformin, 4mg Avandia, 50ugm Synthroid, Advair and Singulair

[Jolanna]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:45:32 -0400, "Larry from N.J."
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
>
>Came across this article today. Click link

Those doctors are idiots! What about those people who are symptomfree
for a hypo? If they don't test frequently and catch it before it gets
too low, they can die! I sure am glad I don't live in Canada, and I am
sorry for the patients those particular doctors see.

It was my meter that told me that I can't eat russet potatoes but I
can eat a small red potato! A dietician or reading a book can't tell
you details like that; only a meter can.

I love my OTU.

--

Jolanna
DM TYPE II
Dx May 31, 2006
Lantus
Metformin
Avandia

[TigerLily]

"Alan S" <[email protected]> wrote
in message
news:[email protected]..
> On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:21:15 -0600, "TigerLily"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >no kidding Alan
> >
> >but if it's anything like my neighbour across
the
> >street
> >
> >he was told to test ONCE a day, in the morning,
> >and he's
> >told that his reading of 14 is 'good for you'
> >
> >sigh :-(
> >
> >he's never been told what numbers to aim for,
nor
> >how foods
> >affect his bg readings (pardon me, he got given
> >the list of free
> >veggies by me when he was diagnosed, so he has
> >some idea)
> >
> >he doesn't want to hear anything else from me
now
> >that his Dr has
> >given him full approval of his 14 am fasting
level
> >:-(
> >
> >and they wonder why he was in hospital with CHF
> >this summer
> >
> Caused by excessive testing? Blood loss?

LOL!
right :-(
excessive blood glucose levels is closer to the
truth :-(

>
> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
> Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
> --
> http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
> latest: Tarascon - Chateau du Roi Rene

[Alan S]

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:02:57 GMT, MI <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>
>
>On 10/22/06 2:13 PM, in article [email protected], "TigerLily"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> please note the funding for test strips is out of
>> private insurance only in Canada......... it's not
>> from the socialized medicine that covers only your
>> Dr's visits, lab reports and hospital
>> stay/entrance
>>
>> kate
>Well I am finally "outed". A very quick overview of my condition. I'll
>give you the meds in my sig to cut things short. I am type 2 diagnosed in
>1987. Last A1C was 6.3, taken when I had pneumonia. Another one coming up in
>November.
>
>Tiger Lily is correct as far as Alberta is concerned. There are three
>provinces that cover prescriptions but we aren't all the same. In British
>Columbia where I am after we pay our deductible (which is income based) we
>get our strips for nothing. Before they changed the rules we had a
>prescription how many strips a day we could use and there was no deductible.
>Now we can have as many strips as we need. I use 4-8 strips a day depending
>on how I feel I need to test. I have used more on occasion.
>
>Martha T2, Canada
>2000mg Metformin, 4mg Avandia, 50ugm Synthroid, Advair and Singulair

Nice to "see" a new face. Welcome Martha.

And thanks for the info.

This just came up on the ADA forum, so I re-posted my
comment there.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Tarascon - Chateau du Roi Rene

[Wes Groleau]

Larry from N.J. wrote:
> Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
> Came across this article today. Click link

which article said:
> "doctor said there is virtually nothing type 2 diabetics can do about
> the results of their blood tests,"

Kurt would say you should listen to a doctor and not ASD.

But I say not if the doctor is an idiot.

--
Wes Groleau

He that complies against his will is of the same opinion still.
-- Samuel Butler, 1612-1680

[Wes Groleau]

Chris Malcolm wrote:
> What I find particularly bone-headed is the idea that there is a
> certain frequency of testing which will be needed for a certain kind
> of diabetes. In the first six months after diagnosis I often tested
> several times a day, sometimes more than a dozen. I needed to do that

Sure, and if the doctor had said some diabetics don't need
to test as much as others, we wouldn't have such a long thread.
But when he implies something as stupid as 'testing never
accomplishes anything for type 2' .....

--
Wes Groleau
-----------

"Thinking I'm dumb gives people something to
feel smug about. Why should I disillusion them?"
-- Charles Wallace
(in _A_Wrinkle_In_Time_)

[Kurt]

Wes Groleau wrote:
> Larry from N.J. wrote:
> > Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
> > Came across this article today. Click link
>
> which article said:
> > "doctor said there is virtually nothing type 2 diabetics can do about
> > the results of their blood tests,"
>
> Kurt would say you should listen to a doctor and not ASD.

Sorry to hear I'm in your head, Wes. The last thing I need is another
stalker. But since you brought it up I do recommend that people listen
to their doctor over the advice given in ASD by some strangers who are
wannabe doctors. The problem with your statement, conveniently meant
to poke a stick at me, is the word "a" as opposed to the word "their."
Everyone is different and my feeling is that one needs to work with
their doctor or endo to determine what their personal needs are.

The article presented was just that, an article that summarized one
Canadian doctor's opinion to a group of 2500 doctors and endos. Would
be interesting to find out the % of doctors there that agreed with him.
I'm not a Type 2 but I can see his point, although I don't agree with
it. I also disagree that someone would become depressed as a result of
the alleged "traumatic" experience of testing.

> But I say not if the doctor is an idiot.

I wouldn't call him an idiot, just someone with an opinion that we as
diabetics might disagree with.

Hope that cleared things up for you...and please try to not think of me
so much.

Kurt

[Chris Malcolm]

Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:45:32 -0400, "Larry from N.J."
> <[email protected]> wrote:

>>Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
>>
>>Came across this article today. Click link

> He's right when read in this context "In an emerging debate,
> many experts now believe that type 2 diabetics who are not
> insulin dependent are wasting hundreds of millions of
> dollars on daily tests that offer them no usable
> information."

> The critical phrase is "offer them no usable information".
> And, if no action is taken as a result of the test, he is
> dead right.

> Presuming that the test that is done is fasting or pre-meal,
> and that the patient sees the doctor about every three
> months, then limiting those daily tests to the week before
> the quarterly visit would be more than enough to let the
> doctor know whether prescriptions need adjustment.

> Of course, we here know that it is a quite different
> situation if testing is done systematically to change
> lifestyles (including diet and exercise) to improve blood
> glucose control.

> The problem here is that he is not even looking at that
> different situation or at why the daily tests are offering
> "no usable information".

> I also note that this, and the other similar recent report
> from Western Australia, both originate in countries which
> subsidise testing costs. This comment by him is the critical
> one: "Majumdar said testing costs Canadians $300 million a
> year". How much of that funding would he prefer to be
> diverted to his research grants? How much is supporting his
> current position and these comments?

> One can cynically expect a similar report to appear in the
> UK, Sweden and other countries which also subsidise diabetes
> support. Likely they will all cross-reference each other as
> well.

> His mind is made up. The one to email may be Dr. Ehud Ur,
> who appears to be on the "aye" side of the debate.

If you google search on "Ehud Ur" within quotes this is the first
hit:

http://dom.medicine.dal.ca/clinicald...endocrinology/

Looks like your man. Email [email protected]

Here is the abstract of a recent publication of his. I like the term
"obesogenic".

Curr Opin Cardiol. 2006 Jul ;21:353-60

The obesity epidemic and its cardiovascular consequences.

Agnieszka Behn, Ehud Ur

PURPOSE OF REVIEW: Obesity has reached global epidemic proportions
because of an increasingly obesogenic environment. This review
examines the association between obesity, and in particular visceral
fat, as a risk factor for cardiovascular disease and mortality.

RECENT FINDINGS: The World Health Organization defines obesity based
on the body mass index. Recently the waist-to-hip ratio has been shown
to be a significantly stronger predictor of cardiovascular events than
body mass index. The metabolic syndrome and its evolving definition
represent a cluster of metabolic risk factors which help predict
cardiovascular disease and mortality. Although insulin resistance
plays a central role in the pathophysiology of the metabolic syndrome,
there is limited support for therapy with insulin sensitizers,
thiazolidinediones, in patients with coronary artery disease. The
current anti-obesity drugs, orlistat and sibutramine, have only a
modest effect on weight loss. The blockade of the endocannabinoid
system with rimonabant, however, may be a promising new
strategy.

SUMMARY: Obesity is associated with significant increase in
cardiovascular risk. Lifestyle modification remains the cornerstone of
management although anti-obesity medications may be indicated in high
risk individuals with comorbid disease.


--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

[rk]

LOL.. you must love it here Kurt.. you have so many
adoring fans. <g>

--
Reisa, T1, Animas IR1250 Pumper
DX-5/00 ASD-7/00
A1C: 6.2% (8/24/06)
Daily CHO: 150-200gm
TDD: 34-38u
"Kurt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
: Wes Groleau wrote:
: > Larry from N.J. wrote:
: > > Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
: > > Came across this article today. Click link
: >
: > which article said:
: > > "doctor said there is virtually nothing type 2 diabetics can do about
: > > the results of their blood tests,"
: >
: > Kurt would say you should listen to a doctor and not ASD.
:
: Sorry to hear I'm in your head, Wes. The last thing I need is another
: stalker. But since you brought it up I do recommend that people listen
: to their doctor over the advice given in ASD by some strangers who are
: wannabe doctors. The problem with your statement, conveniently meant
: to poke a stick at me, is the word "a" as opposed to the word "their."
: Everyone is different and my feeling is that one needs to work with
: their doctor or endo to determine what their personal needs are.
:
: The article presented was just that, an article that summarized one
: Canadian doctor's opinion to a group of 2500 doctors and endos. Would
: be interesting to find out the % of doctors there that agreed with him.
: I'm not a Type 2 but I can see his point, although I don't agree with
: it. I also disagree that someone would become depressed as a result of
: the alleged "traumatic" experience of testing.
:
: > But I say not if the doctor is an idiot.
:
: I wouldn't call him an idiot, just someone with an opinion that we as
: diabetics might disagree with.
:
: Hope that cleared things up for you...and please try to not think of me
: so much.
:
: Kurt
:

[Trinkwasser]

On 22 Oct 2006 09:59:18 GMT, Chris Malcolm <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Larry from N.J. <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
>
>> Came across this article today. Click link
>
>> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968350116467
>
>What I find particularly bone-headed is the idea that there is a
>certain frequency of testing which will be needed for a certain kind
>of diabetes. In the first six months after diagnosis I often tested
>several times a day, sometimes more than a dozen. I needed to do that
>in order to find out exactly how my own personal BG responded to
>various kinds and combinations of food and exercise. I could have used
>a lot more, and found out what was going on a lot quicker, if my
>doctor's strip prescribing hadn't been limited by official policy
>about how many I "needed". I did spend over a couple of hundred pounds
>on extra strips in the early days, just to speed up the learning
>process. As it is, the BG control I managed to achieve after several
>months testing could have been achieved in a few weeks, if I'd been
>given as many strips as I wanted.

Agreed. Though I have to pay for all my strips I reckoned it was worth
it initially in order to build up a profile of knowledge.

>I now test less than once a week, because that's all I need to do to
>in a well established routine to check that things are still behaving
>the way I expect them to. But if anything changed my routine a lot,
>such as getting a new job or house, I'd have to start testing a lot
>again to find out how I reacted to the new routines and food sources.

Likewise, *now* I can save money by only testing when I feel out of
kilter, or when I try eating or doing something new, and every so
often I run a whole day just to make sure nothing has changed and I
can still guestimate my BG fairly well.

IMNSHO this was a much better way of working than testing once or
twice a day as some are told to do, it would have taken far longer to
collect as much information and I would have felt a lot more crap
while doing it. And as for the ****wits who tell Type 2s only to test
their fasting numbers, words fail me.

>It's also a personal thing. Having spent many years teaching students
>how to design experiments, collect experimental data, and analyse the
>results, I can make sense of lots of data, whereas my diabetic Mum
>often got very confused when her doctor's requested two tests a day
>started giving unexpected results.

Might it have helped her to have had *more* information initially, it
would have shown up a pattern in the "unexpected" results more
readily?

[Wes Groleau]

Chris Malcolm wrote:
> modest effect on weight loss. The blockade of the endocannabinoid

First time I ever heard of that one.....

--
Wes Groleau

He that is good for making excuses, is seldom good for anything else.
-- Benjamin Franklin

[Chris Malcolm]

Trinkwasser <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 22 Oct 2006 09:59:18 GMT, Chris Malcolm <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>Larry from N.J. <[email protected]> wrote:

>>> Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
>>
>>> Came across this article today. Click link
>>
>>> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968350116467
>>

>>What I find particularly bone-headed is the idea that there is a
>>certain frequency of testing which will be needed for a certain kind
>>of diabetes. In the first six months after diagnosis I often tested
>>several times a day, sometimes more than a dozen. I needed to do that
>>in order to find out exactly how my own personal BG responded to
>>various kinds and combinations of food and exercise. I could have used
>>a lot more, and found out what was going on a lot quicker, if my
>>doctor's strip prescribing hadn't been limited by official policy
>>about how many I "needed". I did spend over a couple of hundred pounds
>>on extra strips in the early days, just to speed up the learning
>>process. As it is, the BG control I managed to achieve after several
>>months testing could have been achieved in a few weeks, if I'd been
>>given as many strips as I wanted.

> Agreed. Though I have to pay for all my strips I reckoned it was worth
> it initially in order to build up a profile of knowledge.

>>I now test less than once a week, because that's all I need to do to
>>in a well established routine to check that things are still behaving
>>the way I expect them to. But if anything changed my routine a lot,
>>such as getting a new job or house, I'd have to start testing a lot
>>again to find out how I reacted to the new routines and food sources.

> Likewise, *now* I can save money by only testing when I feel out of
> kilter, or when I try eating or doing something new, and every so
> often I run a whole day just to make sure nothing has changed and I
> can still guestimate my BG fairly well.

> IMNSHO this was a much better way of working than testing once or
> twice a day as some are told to do, it would have taken far longer to
> collect as much information and I would have felt a lot more crap
> while doing it. And as for the ****wits who tell Type 2s only to test
> their fasting numbers, words fail me.

>>It's also a personal thing. Having spent many years teaching students
>>how to design experiments, collect experimental data, and analyse the
>>results, I can make sense of lots of data, whereas my diabetic Mum
>>often got very confused when her doctor's requested two tests a day
>>started giving unexpected results.

> Might it have helped her to have had *more* information initially, it
> would have shown up a pattern in the "unexpected" results more
> readily?

I think so. It's also true that I would have seen the patterns in my
BG results more quickly, and got control more quickly, if I had tested
even more than I did. The problem is that doing that amount of testing
places you way beyond the test strip usage that any doctor I've heard
of will prescribe.

One of the particular difficulties is that most doctors, and many
official sources of diabetic advice, give you a picture that is
oversimplified and overgeneralised. But of course to begin with you
believe it. Why wouldn't you? Then you find personal test results
which simply don't make sense according to the story you've been told.

--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

[Trinkwasser]

On 24 Oct 2006 06:51:40 GMT, Chris Malcolm <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Trinkwasser <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 22 Oct 2006 09:59:18 GMT, Chris Malcolm <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>>Larry from N.J. <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>> Is daily test needed for all types of diabetes?
>>>
>>>> Came across this article today. Click link
>>>
>>>> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968350116467
>>>
>
>>>What I find particularly bone-headed is the idea that there is a
>>>certain frequency of testing which will be needed for a certain kind
>>>of diabetes. In the first six months after diagnosis I often tested
>>>several times a day, sometimes more than a dozen. I needed to do that
>>>in order to find out exactly how my own personal BG responded to
>>>various kinds and combinations of food and exercise. I could have used
>>>a lot more, and found out what was going on a lot quicker, if my
>>>doctor's strip prescribing hadn't been limited by official policy
>>>about how many I "needed". I did spend over a couple of hundred pounds
>>>on extra strips in the early days, just to speed up the learning
>>>process. As it is, the BG control I managed to achieve after several
>>>months testing could have been achieved in a few weeks, if I'd been
>>>given as many strips as I wanted.
>
>> Agreed. Though I have to pay for all my strips I reckoned it was worth
>> it initially in order to build up a profile of knowledge.
>
>>>I now test less than once a week, because that's all I need to do to
>>>in a well established routine to check that things are still behaving
>>>the way I expect them to. But if anything changed my routine a lot,
>>>such as getting a new job or house, I'd have to start testing a lot
>>>again to find out how I reacted to the new routines and food sources.
>
>> Likewise, *now* I can save money by only testing when I feel out of
>> kilter, or when I try eating or doing something new, and every so
>> often I run a whole day just to make sure nothing has changed and I
>> can still guestimate my BG fairly well.
>
>> IMNSHO this was a much better way of working than testing once or
>> twice a day as some are told to do, it would have taken far longer to
>> collect as much information and I would have felt a lot more crap
>> while doing it. And as for the ****wits who tell Type 2s only to test
>> their fasting numbers, words fail me.
>
>>>It's also a personal thing. Having spent many years teaching students
>>>how to design experiments, collect experimental data, and analyse the
>>>results, I can make sense of lots of data, whereas my diabetic Mum
>>>often got very confused when her doctor's requested two tests a day
>>>started giving unexpected results.
>
>> Might it have helped her to have had *more* information initially, it
>> would have shown up a pattern in the "unexpected" results more
>> readily?
>
>I think so. It's also true that I would have seen the patterns in my
>BG results more quickly, and got control more quickly, if I had tested
>even more than I did. The problem is that doing that amount of testing
>places you way beyond the test strip usage that any doctor I've heard
>of will prescribe.

http://www.diabeticshop.co.uk/

some of the best prices I've found, nice people to do business with
also.

(NO connection except as a satisfied customer)

Since my prescription was for no testing at all, which would not have
changed even if I had asked to be placed on the Diabetic Register, I
had to finance it all myself. I'm quite good at discerning patterns
from data (one advantage of ADD I guess) so I followed best practice
as described here. If I'd not tested so much initially I'd still be
struggling to make sense of the apparent contradictions which aren't
actually contradictions when you work out what's occurring (like too
few carbs - liver dump - BG goes up, and the difference in insulin
resistance with time of day)

>One of the particular difficulties is that most doctors, and many
>official sources of diabetic advice, give you a picture that is
>oversimplified and overgeneralised. But of course to begin with you
>believe it. Why wouldn't you? Then you find personal test results
>which simply don't make sense according to the story you've been told.

Which is about when you find asd/asduk and breathe a sigh of relief

IMNSHO that's the greatest benefit of the internet, you can bypass the
Diabetes for Dummies type information quite quickly and move on to
something more comprehensive and understandable. You can even read the
original research in the original gibberish <G>