Dairy, Meat & Type 2 Diabetes

[jay]

Leucine Signaling in the Pathogenesis of Type 2 Diabetes and Obesity.

Epidemiological evidence points to increased dairy and meat
consumption, staples of the Western diet, as major risk factors for
the development of type 2 diabetes (T2D). This paper presents a new
concept and comprehensive review of leucine-mediated cell signaling
explaining the pathogenesis of T2D and obesity by leucine-induced over-
stimulation of mammalian target of rapamycin complex 1 (mTORC1).
mTORC1, a pivotal nutrient-sensitive kinase, promotes growth and cell
proliferation in response to glucose, energy, growth factors and amino
acids. Dairy proteins and meat stimulate insulin/insulin-like growth
factor 1 signaling and provide high amounts of leucine, a primary and
independent stimulator for mTORC1 activation. The downstream target of
mTORC1, the kinase S6K1, induces insulin resistance by phosphorylation
of insulin receptor substrate-1, thereby increasing the metabolic
burden of β-cells. Moreover, leucine-mediated mTORC1-S6K1-signaling
plays an important role in adipogenesis, thus increasing the risk of
obesity-mediated insulin resistance. High consumption of leucine-rich
proteins explains exaggerated mTORC1-dependent insulin secretion,
increased β-cell growth and β-cell proliferation promoting an early
onset of replicative β-cell senescence with subsequent β-cell
apoptosis. Disturbances of β-cell mass regulation with increased β-
cell proliferation and apoptosis as well as insulin resistance are
hallmarks of T2D, which are all associated with hyperactivation of
mTORC1. In contrast, the anti-diabetic drug metformin antagonizes
leucine-mediated mTORC1 signaling. Plant-derived polyphenols and
flavonoids are identified as natural inhibitors of mTORC1 and exert
anti-diabetic and anti-obesity effects. Furthermore, bariatric surgery
in obesity reduces increased plasma levels of leucine and other
branched-chain amino acids. Attenuation of leucine-mediated mTORC1
signaling by defining appropriate upper limits of the daily intake of
leucine-rich animal and dairy proteins may offer a great chance for
the prevention of T2D and obesity, as well as other epidemic diseases
of civilization with increased mTORC1 signaling, especially cancer and
neurodegenerative diseases, which are frequently associated with T2D.
PMID: 22442749

Leucine (mg)/ cal

4200 Egg White
4000 Soy Isolate
3700 Tofu
3500 Turkey, Fish
3000 Beef, Chicken

1800 Mozzerella
1100 Yogurt
900 Milk
400 Cream Cheese

74 Orange
65 Plum
50 Apple
39 Grape

[Julie Bove]

jay wrote:
> Leucine Signaling in the Pathogenesis of Type 2 Diabetes and Obesity.
>
> Epidemiological evidence points to increased dairy and meat
> consumption, staples of the Western diet, as major risk factors for
> the development of type 2 diabetes (T2D). This paper presents a new
> concept and comprehensive review of leucine-mediated cell signaling
> explaining the pathogenesis of T2D and obesity by leucine-induced
> over- stimulation of mammalian target of rapamycin complex 1 (mTORC1).
> mTORC1, a pivotal nutrient-sensitive kinase, promotes growth and cell
> proliferation in response to glucose, energy, growth factors and amino
> acids. Dairy proteins and meat stimulate insulin/insulin-like growth
> factor 1 signaling and provide high amounts of leucine, a primary and
> independent stimulator for mTORC1 activation. The downstream target of
> mTORC1, the kinase S6K1, induces insulin resistance by phosphorylation
> of insulin receptor substrate-1, thereby increasing the metabolic
> burden of ?-cells. Moreover, leucine-mediated mTORC1-S6K1-signaling
> plays an important role in adipogenesis, thus increasing the risk of
> obesity-mediated insulin resistance. High consumption of leucine-rich
> proteins explains exaggerated mTORC1-dependent insulin secretion,
> increased ?-cell growth and ?-cell proliferation promoting an early
> onset of replicative ?-cell senescence with subsequent ?-cell
> apoptosis. Disturbances of ?-cell mass regulation with increased ?-
> cell proliferation and apoptosis as well as insulin resistance are
> hallmarks of T2D, which are all associated with hyperactivation of
> mTORC1. In contrast, the anti-diabetic drug metformin antagonizes
> leucine-mediated mTORC1 signaling. Plant-derived polyphenols and
> flavonoids are identified as natural inhibitors of mTORC1 and exert
> anti-diabetic and anti-obesity effects. Furthermore, bariatric surgery
> in obesity reduces increased plasma levels of leucine and other
> branched-chain amino acids. Attenuation of leucine-mediated mTORC1
> signaling by defining appropriate upper limits of the daily intake of
> leucine-rich animal and dairy proteins may offer a great chance for
> the prevention of T2D and obesity, as well as other epidemic diseases
> of civilization with increased mTORC1 signaling, especially cancer and
> neurodegenerative diseases, which are frequently associated with T2D.
> PMID: 22442749
>
> Leucine (mg)/ cal
>
> 4200 Egg White
> 4000 Soy Isolate
> 3700 Tofu
> 3500 Turkey, Fish
> 3000 Beef, Chicken
>
> 1800 Mozzerella
> 1100 Yogurt
> 900 Milk
> 400 Cream Cheese
>
> 74 Orange
> 65 Plum
> 50 Apple
> 39 Grape

Not buying it. Not in my case anyway. I was mostly a vegetarian upon my
diagnosis. I ate meat maybe once a month if that. I did eat some soy and
some eggs and dairy but not a lot.

[jay]

> Not buying it. *Not in my case anyway. *I was mostly a vegetarian upon my
> diagnosis. *I ate meat maybe once a month if that. *I did eat some soy and
> some eggs and dairy but not a lot.

What was your diet & physical activity level from the time you stopped
growing to the time of diagnosis? Was your weight normal at time of
diagnosis? How frequently did you eat soy (what form), eggs and dairy
(what form)? Did you have any extraordinary sources of iron (ie
vitamin pills, heavily fortified foods (ie Total), liver)? When you
say vegetarian, do you mean mostly fresh fruits and minimally
processed veggies with less emphasis on grains, legumes, nuts, seeds,
etc. Exposure to environmental pollutants (ie fish oils, fatty fish,
animal fats, factory-related work)? What is your best guess as to the
cause of diabetes in general and in your case?

[[email protected] |]

On Apr 29, 8:38*pm, jay <jaym1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Not buying it. *Not in my case anyway. *I was mostly a vegetarian upon my
> > diagnosis. *I ate meat maybe once a month if that. *I did eat some soy and
> > some eggs and dairy but not a lot.
>
> What was your diet & physical activity level from the time you stopped
> growing to the time of diagnosis? Was your weight normal at time of
> diagnosis? How frequently did you eat soy (what form), eggs and dairy
> (what form)? Did you have any extraordinary sources of iron (ie
> vitamin pills, heavily fortified foods (ie Total), liver)? When you
> say vegetarian, do you mean mostly fresh fruits and minimally
> processed veggies with less emphasis on grains, legumes, nuts, seeds,
> etc. Exposure to environmental pollutants (ie fish oils, fatty fish,
> animal fats, factory-related work)? What is your best guess as to the
> cause of diabetes in general and in your case?

Tofu has its own risks though perhaps not DM so much or at all.
Plus there other exposures of a chemical nature that aren't oral.
Plastic houseware might be a risk as it was rich in phthalates?
Fruit is not without its risks especially the sprayed stuff.

[[email protected] |]

On Apr 29, 8:04*pm, "Julie Bove" <julieb...@frontier.com> wrote:
> jay wrote:
> > Leucine Signaling in the Pathogenesis of Type 2 Diabetes and Obesity.
>
> > Epidemiological evidence points to increased dairy and meat
> > consumption, staples of the Western diet, as major risk factors for
> > the development of type 2 diabetes (T2D). This paper presents a new
> > concept and comprehensive review of leucine-mediated cell signaling
> > explaining the pathogenesis of T2D and obesity by leucine-induced
> > over- stimulation of mammalian target of rapamycin complex 1 (mTORC1).
> > mTORC1, a pivotal nutrient-sensitive kinase, promotes growth and cell
> > proliferation in response to glucose, energy, growth factors and amino
> > acids. Dairy proteins and meat stimulate insulin/insulin-like growth
> > factor 1 signaling and provide high amounts of leucine, a primary and
> > independent stimulator for mTORC1 activation. The downstream target of
> > mTORC1, the kinase S6K1, induces insulin resistance by phosphorylation
> > of insulin receptor substrate-1, thereby increasing the metabolic
> > burden of ?-cells. Moreover, leucine-mediated mTORC1-S6K1-signaling
> > plays an important role in adipogenesis, thus increasing the risk of
> > obesity-mediated insulin resistance. High consumption of leucine-rich
> > proteins explains exaggerated mTORC1-dependent insulin secretion,
> > increased ?-cell growth and ?-cell proliferation promoting an early
> > onset of replicative ?-cell senescence with subsequent ?-cell
> > apoptosis. Disturbances of ?-cell mass regulation with increased ?-
> > cell proliferation and apoptosis as well as insulin resistance are
> > hallmarks of T2D, which are all associated with hyperactivation of
> > mTORC1. In contrast, the anti-diabetic drug metformin antagonizes
> > leucine-mediated mTORC1 signaling. Plant-derived polyphenols and
> > flavonoids are identified as natural inhibitors of mTORC1 and exert
> > anti-diabetic and anti-obesity effects. Furthermore, bariatric surgery
> > in obesity reduces increased plasma levels of leucine and other
> > branched-chain amino acids. Attenuation of leucine-mediated mTORC1
> > signaling by defining appropriate upper limits of the daily intake of
> > leucine-rich animal and dairy proteins may offer a great chance for
> > the prevention of T2D and obesity, as well as other epidemic diseases
> > of civilization with increased mTORC1 signaling, especially cancer and
> > neurodegenerative diseases, which are frequently associated with T2D.
> > PMID: 22442749
>
> > Leucine (mg)/ cal
>
> > 4200 Egg White
> > 4000 Soy Isolate
> > 3700 Tofu
> > 3500 Turkey, Fish
> > 3000 Beef, Chicken
>
> > 1800 Mozzerella
> > 1100 Yogurt
> > 900 Milk
> > 400 Cream Cheese
>
> > 74 Orange
> > 65 Plum
> > 50 Apple
> > 39 Grape
>
> Not buying it. *Not in my case anyway. *I was mostly a vegetarian upon my
> diagnosis. *I ate meat maybe once a month if that. *I did eat some soy and
> some eggs and dairy but not a lot.

phthalates in timed released drugs and some supplements may double the
risk of T2 DM per some reports. Do a simple google search.

[Julie Bove]

"jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> Not buying it. Not in my case anyway. I was mostly a vegetarian upon my
> diagnosis. I ate meat maybe once a month if that. I did eat some soy and
> some eggs and dairy but not a lot.

What was your diet & physical activity level from the time you stopped
growing to the time of diagnosis? Was your weight normal at time of
diagnosis? How frequently did you eat soy (what form), eggs and dairy
(what form)? Did you have any extraordinary sources of iron (ie
vitamin pills, heavily fortified foods (ie Total), liver)? When you
say vegetarian, do you mean mostly fresh fruits and minimally
processed veggies with less emphasis on grains, legumes, nuts, seeds,
etc. Exposure to environmental pollutants (ie fish oils, fatty fish,
animal fats, factory-related work)? What is your best guess as to the
cause of diabetes in general and in your case?

At the time of diagnosis, I weighed exactly what I weigh now. I had lost
some weight about 2 years prior but then I got pregnant. I couldn't figure
out why I was gaining weight! I gained a total of 22 pounds during the
pregnancy. I lost a little after but then put it back on, eventually
getting back down to what I weigh now. But those 22 pounds more than I
weigh now was the most I have ever weighed in my life.

AFAIK I didn't have any big sources of iron other than iron pills. I
frequently am anemic. I took a prenatal vitamin but at that point in my
life wasn't taking any other supplements unless my Dr. told me to. I had to
take iron due to anemia and then upon diagnosis also a potassium supplement.

My diet consisted mainly of white rice, brown rice pasta, some tortillas, a
lot of beans, popcorn and huge salads and other raw veggies. I ate edemame
about once or twice a week. I ate some Tiger's Milk bars but had eaten
quite a lot of them prior to being pregnant. I often worked long hours at a
golf course and took them to work with me. I also ate roasted soy nuts, soy
bacon (occasionally) and various bean patties. I didn't pay as much mind to
what was in my food in those days other than looking for added sugar, high
fructose corn syrup and the like. I know some of the bean patties I ate had
mushrooms and black beans in them. Not sure if they had soy or not. But
upon diagnosis I was eating Bocca Burgers once or twice a week. I was under
the mistaken notion that soy was really good for you. I now know better.

I really didn't eat a lot of eggs. I never liked them very much. But when
I was pregnant I had to eat breakfast out prior to getting some labs done
once a week. I had an egg sandwich at an ethic restaurant. Can't remember
the ethnicity. But they had kimchi. I rarely even bought eggs at home.

I didn't eat a lot of cheese because I was worried about the fat in it. I
used to think fat was evil. I was shocked when the dietician showed me the
little plastic foods. I had to pick out the portion sizes for everything.
I got them all right except for the cheese. The portion size for cheese was
waaaay more than I realized! I used to cut the thinnest slice of cheese
possible and then cut that into matchstick sized pieces. That's how little
I ate of it.

I did eat an occasional tuna sandwich. Less often I would eat some beef,
mainly in a restaurant. I do remember buying a couple of packages of
chicken nuggets. They were never a favorite but my husband liked them.

I was very active prior to diagnosis. As I said, I worked at the golf
course. The gold pro recommended that I use a sickle to help with my golf
swing. So I used it to cut my grass. I also hit countless buckets of balls
at the driving range. Didn't play too much golf because I was always
working. I danced and did yoga. I was about to go back to teaching dance,
tap for seniors. But due to a threatened miscarriage and then 4 more, I
gave up any notion of working, let alone teaching dance.

It was all downhill from there. I got gestational diabetes. Then about a
year and a week after I had the baby I was diagnosed with type 2.

[Julie Bove]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Apr 29, 8:04 pm, "Julie Bove" <julieb...@frontier.com> wrote:
> jay wrote:
> > Leucine Signaling in the Pathogenesis of Type 2 Diabetes and Obesity.
>
> > Epidemiological evidence points to increased dairy and meat
> > consumption, staples of the Western diet, as major risk factors for
> > the development of type 2 diabetes (T2D). This paper presents a new
> > concept and comprehensive review of leucine-mediated cell signaling
> > explaining the pathogenesis of T2D and obesity by leucine-induced
> > over- stimulation of mammalian target of rapamycin complex 1 (mTORC1).
> > mTORC1, a pivotal nutrient-sensitive kinase, promotes growth and cell
> > proliferation in response to glucose, energy, growth factors and amino
> > acids. Dairy proteins and meat stimulate insulin/insulin-like growth
> > factor 1 signaling and provide high amounts of leucine, a primary and
> > independent stimulator for mTORC1 activation. The downstream target of
> > mTORC1, the kinase S6K1, induces insulin resistance by phosphorylation
> > of insulin receptor substrate-1, thereby increasing the metabolic
> > burden of ?-cells. Moreover, leucine-mediated mTORC1-S6K1-signaling
> > plays an important role in adipogenesis, thus increasing the risk of
> > obesity-mediated insulin resistance. High consumption of leucine-rich
> > proteins explains exaggerated mTORC1-dependent insulin secretion,
> > increased ?-cell growth and ?-cell proliferation promoting an early
> > onset of replicative ?-cell senescence with subsequent ?-cell
> > apoptosis. Disturbances of ?-cell mass regulation with increased ?-
> > cell proliferation and apoptosis as well as insulin resistance are
> > hallmarks of T2D, which are all associated with hyperactivation of
> > mTORC1. In contrast, the anti-diabetic drug metformin antagonizes
> > leucine-mediated mTORC1 signaling. Plant-derived polyphenols and
> > flavonoids are identified as natural inhibitors of mTORC1 and exert
> > anti-diabetic and anti-obesity effects. Furthermore, bariatric surgery
> > in obesity reduces increased plasma levels of leucine and other
> > branched-chain amino acids. Attenuation of leucine-mediated mTORC1
> > signaling by defining appropriate upper limits of the daily intake of
> > leucine-rich animal and dairy proteins may offer a great chance for
> > the prevention of T2D and obesity, as well as other epidemic diseases
> > of civilization with increased mTORC1 signaling, especially cancer and
> > neurodegenerative diseases, which are frequently associated with T2D.
> > PMID: 22442749
>
> > Leucine (mg)/ cal
>
> > 4200 Egg White
> > 4000 Soy Isolate
> > 3700 Tofu
> > 3500 Turkey, Fish
> > 3000 Beef, Chicken
>
> > 1800 Mozzerella
> > 1100 Yogurt
> > 900 Milk
> > 400 Cream Cheese
>
> > 74 Orange
> > 65 Plum
> > 50 Apple
> > 39 Grape
>
> Not buying it. Not in my case anyway. I was mostly a vegetarian upon my
> diagnosis. I ate meat maybe once a month if that. I did eat some soy and
> some eggs and dairy but not a lot.

phthalates in timed released drugs and some supplements may double the
risk of T2 DM per some reports. Do a simple google search.

At the time of my diagnosis, the only med I was on was for BP. I used to be
very much anti-med. Still would be except that I have to take them.

[GysdeJongh]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Apr 29, 8:04 pm, "Julie Bove" <julieb...@frontier.com> wrote:
>> jay wrote:
>>> Leucine Signaling in the Pathogenesis of Type 2 Diabetes and
>>> Obesity.
>>
>>> Epidemiological evidence points to increased dairy and meat
>>> consumption, staples of the Western diet, as major risk factors for
>>> the development of type 2 diabetes (T2D). This paper presents a new
>>> concept and comprehensive review of leucine-mediated cell signaling
>>> explaining the pathogenesis of T2D and obesity by leucine-induced
>>> over- stimulation of mammalian target of rapamycin complex 1
>>> (mTORC1). mTORC1, a pivotal nutrient-sensitive kinase, promotes
>>> growth and cell proliferation in response to glucose, energy,
>>> growth factors and amino acids. Dairy proteins and meat stimulate
>>> insulin/insulin-like growth factor 1 signaling and provide high
>>> amounts of leucine, a primary and independent stimulator for mTORC1
>>> activation. The downstream target of mTORC1, the kinase S6K1,
>>> induces insulin resistance by phosphorylation of insulin receptor
>>> substrate-1, thereby increasing the metabolic burden of ?-cells.
>>> Moreover, leucine-mediated mTORC1-S6K1-signaling plays an important
>>> role in adipogenesis, thus increasing the risk of obesity-mediated
>>> insulin resistance. High consumption of leucine-rich proteins
>>> explains exaggerated mTORC1-dependent insulin secretion, increased
>>> ?-cell growth and ?-cell proliferation promoting an early onset of
>>> replicative ?-cell senescence with subsequent ?-cell apoptosis.
>>> Disturbances of ?-cell mass regulation with increased ?- cell
>>> proliferation and apoptosis as well as insulin resistance are
>>> hallmarks of T2D, which are all associated with hyperactivation of
>>> mTORC1. In contrast, the anti-diabetic drug metformin antagonizes
>>> leucine-mediated mTORC1 signaling. Plant-derived polyphenols and
>>> flavonoids are identified as natural inhibitors of mTORC1 and exert
>>> anti-diabetic and anti-obesity effects. Furthermore, bariatric
>>> surgery in obesity reduces increased plasma levels of leucine and
>>> other branched-chain amino acids. Attenuation of leucine-mediated
>>> mTORC1 signaling by defining appropriate upper limits of the daily
>>> intake of leucine-rich animal and dairy proteins may offer a great
>>> chance for the prevention of T2D and obesity, as well as other
>>> epidemic diseases of civilization with increased mTORC1 signaling,
>>> especially cancer and neurodegenerative diseases, which are
>>> frequently associated with T2D. PMID: 22442749
>>
>>> Leucine (mg)/ cal
>>
>>> 4200 Egg White
>>> 4000 Soy Isolate
>>> 3700 Tofu
>>> 3500 Turkey, Fish
>>> 3000 Beef, Chicken
>>
>>> 1800 Mozzerella
>>> 1100 Yogurt
>>> 900 Milk
>>> 400 Cream Cheese
>>
>>> 74 Orange
>>> 65 Plum
>>> 50 Apple
>>> 39 Grape
>>
>> Not buying it. Not in my case anyway. I was mostly a vegetarian upon
>> my diagnosis. I ate meat maybe once a month if that. I did eat some
>> soy and some eggs and dairy but not a lot.
>
> phthalates in timed released drugs and some supplements may double the
> risk of T2 DM per some reports. Do a simple google search.



fine particulate matter from the increasing traffic and industrial activity
in our cities enhances the risk of T2

We evolved together with plants for millions of years. Plants contain all
kinds of substances that will influence our behaviour, like not eating too
much of the plant. But also like substances that mitigate the bad effects of
fructose. They will also keep their "customers happy" because we also have
to spread their seeds. Which is the reason that a lot of medication for T2
and the metabolic syndrome are inspired by plant substances.

In our food -like factories these beneficial substances are destroyed and
thus we get sick. Coca Cola contains *only* fructose. Apples also contain
anti oxidants and flavonoids. We decided to eat adulterated food.

And meat and a lot of other things.
The perfect storm for T2

Gys

[[email protected]]

On 4/29/2012 10:23 PM, GysdeJongh wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Apr 29, 8:04 pm, "Julie Bove" <julieb...@frontier.com> wrote:
>>> jay wrote:
>>>> Leucine Signaling in the Pathogenesis of Type 2 Diabetes and
>>>> Obesity.
>>>
>>>> Epidemiological evidence points to increased dairy and meat
>>>> consumption, staples of the Western diet, as major risk factors for
>>>> the development of type 2 diabetes (T2D). This paper presents a new
>>>> concept and comprehensive review of leucine-mediated cell signaling
>>>> explaining the pathogenesis of T2D and obesity by leucine-induced
>>>> over- stimulation of mammalian target of rapamycin complex 1
>>>> (mTORC1). mTORC1, a pivotal nutrient-sensitive kinase, promotes
>>>> growth and cell proliferation in response to glucose, energy,
>>>> growth factors and amino acids. Dairy proteins and meat stimulate
>>>> insulin/insulin-like growth factor 1 signaling and provide high
>>>> amounts of leucine, a primary and independent stimulator for mTORC1
>>>> activation. The downstream target of mTORC1, the kinase S6K1,
>>>> induces insulin resistance by phosphorylation of insulin receptor
>>>> substrate-1, thereby increasing the metabolic burden of ?-cells.
>>>> Moreover, leucine-mediated mTORC1-S6K1-signaling plays an important
>>>> role in adipogenesis, thus increasing the risk of obesity-mediated
>>>> insulin resistance. High consumption of leucine-rich proteins
>>>> explains exaggerated mTORC1-dependent insulin secretion, increased
>>>> ?-cell growth and ?-cell proliferation promoting an early onset of
>>>> replicative ?-cell senescence with subsequent ?-cell apoptosis.
>>>> Disturbances of ?-cell mass regulation with increased ?- cell
>>>> proliferation and apoptosis as well as insulin resistance are
>>>> hallmarks of T2D, which are all associated with hyperactivation of
>>>> mTORC1. In contrast, the anti-diabetic drug metformin antagonizes
>>>> leucine-mediated mTORC1 signaling. Plant-derived polyphenols and
>>>> flavonoids are identified as natural inhibitors of mTORC1 and exert
>>>> anti-diabetic and anti-obesity effects. Furthermore, bariatric
>>>> surgery in obesity reduces increased plasma levels of leucine and
>>>> other branched-chain amino acids. Attenuation of leucine-mediated
>>>> mTORC1 signaling by defining appropriate upper limits of the daily
>>>> intake of leucine-rich animal and dairy proteins may offer a great
>>>> chance for the prevention of T2D and obesity, as well as other
>>>> epidemic diseases of civilization with increased mTORC1 signaling,
>>>> especially cancer and neurodegenerative diseases, which are
>>>> frequently associated with T2D. PMID: 22442749
>>>
>>>> Leucine (mg)/ cal
>>>
>>>> 4200 Egg White
>>>> 4000 Soy Isolate
>>>> 3700 Tofu
>>>> 3500 Turkey, Fish
>>>> 3000 Beef, Chicken
>>>
>>>> 1800 Mozzerella
>>>> 1100 Yogurt
>>>> 900 Milk
>>>> 400 Cream Cheese
>>>
>>>> 74 Orange
>>>> 65 Plum
>>>> 50 Apple
>>>> 39 Grape
>>>
>>> Not buying it. Not in my case anyway. I was mostly a vegetarian upon
>>> my diagnosis. I ate meat maybe once a month if that. I did eat some
>>> soy and some eggs and dairy but not a lot.
>>
>> phthalates in timed released drugs and some supplements may double the
>> risk of T2 DM per some reports. Do a simple google search.
>
>
>
> fine particulate matter from the increasing traffic and industrial
> activity in our cities enhances the risk of T2
>
> We evolved together with plants for millions of years. Plants contain
> all kinds of substances that will influence our behaviour, like not
> eating too much of the plant. But also like substances that mitigate the
> bad effects of fructose. They will also keep their "customers happy"
> because we also have to spread their seeds. Which is the reason that a
> lot of medication for T2 and the metabolic syndrome are inspired by
> plant substances.
>
> In our food -like factories these beneficial substances are destroyed and
> thus we get sick. Coca Cola contains *only* fructose. Apples also
> contain anti oxidants and flavonoids. We decided to eat adulterated food.
>

Now *why* on (this beautiful green) earth of ours would you decide to do
a thing like that?

[Colt T]

Dairy fat has trans palmitoleic (sp?) acid in it that prevents diabetes.

[Zrupfter]

>"Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote
> ...I had to take iron due to anemia and then upon diagnosis also
> a potassium supplement.
>
That's sort of a genetic giveaway. If you need potassium
BEFORE you hit middle age, where decreasing hormonal activity
is a more common reason for extra potassium requirements, then
- not always, but frequently - you are genetically on the way
for a higher blood pressure or blood sugar risk.

The consumption of sweet / ripe fruit and berries will speed things
up too, as will higher salt intake (tortillas or other salted foods?),
since that will increase potassium requirements even more.
Taking iron instead of folic acid with anemia is another potential
reason, and a common cause for gestational diabetes and eclampsia.

You either followed poor / outdated medical advice, or read the
wrong books.
Since you cannot use routine blood tests to check for calcium or
magnesium status ( www.acu-cell.com/acn.html ), I would carefully
study excess or deficiency symptoms to see if you could improve
your blood sugar / blood pressure situation by normalizing their levels.
Extra Vitamin C may be somewhat helpful for both as well.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

On 4/30/2012 12:02 AM, Zrupfter wrote:

> That's sort of a genetic giveaway. If you need potassium
> BEFORE you hit middle age, where decreasing hormonal activity
> is a more common reason for extra potassium requirements, then
> - not always, but frequently - you are genetically on the way
> for a higher blood pressure or blood sugar risk.

Or you have Cushing's syndrome, either cyclical, florid or sublinical.
High cortisol causes potassium loss/over excretion.

Susan

[Julie Bove]

"Zrupfter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:jnmd33$72s$[email protected]..
> >"Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote
>> ...I had to take iron due to anemia and then upon diagnosis also
>> a potassium supplement.
>>
> That's sort of a genetic giveaway. If you need potassium
> BEFORE you hit middle age, where decreasing hormonal activity
> is a more common reason for extra potassium requirements, then
> - not always, but frequently - you are genetically on the way
> for a higher blood pressure or blood sugar risk.

I didn't say it was before middle age. What age is middle age anyway?
>
> The consumption of sweet / ripe fruit and berries will speed things
> up too, as will higher salt intake (tortillas or other salted foods?),
> since that will increase potassium requirements even more.
> Taking iron instead of folic acid with anemia is another potential
> reason, and a common cause for gestational diabetes and eclampsia.

I hate fruit! I hardly ever eat fruit. Especially not berries. Yuck!
Tortillas are not salted. I did have pre-eclampsia. I was taking both iron
and a pre-natal which includes folic acid.
>
> You either followed poor / outdated medical advice, or read the
> wrong books.
> Since you cannot use routine blood tests to check for calcium or
> magnesium status ( www.acu-cell.com/acn.html ), I would carefully
> study excess or deficiency symptoms to see if you could improve
> your blood sugar / blood pressure situation by normalizing their levels.
> Extra Vitamin C may be somewhat helpful for both as well.

Nonsense!

[Julie Bove]

"Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On 4/30/2012 12:02 AM, Zrupfter wrote:
>
>> That's sort of a genetic giveaway. If you need potassium
>> BEFORE you hit middle age, where decreasing hormonal activity
>> is a more common reason for extra potassium requirements, then
>> - not always, but frequently - you are genetically on the way
>> for a higher blood pressure or blood sugar risk.
>
> Or you have Cushing's syndrome, either cyclical, florid or sublinical.
> High cortisol causes potassium loss/over excretion.

Or you have diarrhea for weeks on end like I do. That in and of itself
causes potassium loss.

[montygraham]

This paper demonstrates incredible ignorance or a deliberate attempt
to mislead, in my opinion. But beyond that, it's a "cut and paste
job," meaning that anyone can seek out a particular molecule that may
play a role (usually not causative) in a "disease" and then say that a
food item is unhealthy because it contains more of that item than
certain others. My fasting glucose was considerably higher (nearly
"pre-diabetic") while on a vegetarian diet but in the middle of
"normal" on a diet very rich in dairy products (keep in mind I do not
heat up dairy and do not eat meat). Instead, the underlying cause is
fairly obvious at this point, for example:

“Oxidative stress, through the production of reactive oxygen species
(ROS), has been proposed as the root cause underlying the development
of insulin resistance, β-cell dysfunction, impaired glucose tolerance
and type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM). It has also been implicated in
the progression of long-term diabetes complications, including
microvascular and macrovascular dysfunction. Excess nourishment and a
sedentary lifestyle leads to glucose and fatty acid overload,
resulting in production of ROS. Additionally, reaction of glucose with
plasma proteins forms advanced glycation end products, triggering
production of ROS. These ROS initiate a chain reaction leading to
reduced nitric oxide availability, increased markers of inflammation
and chemical modification of lipoproteins, all of which may increase
the risk of atherogenesis. With the postulation that hyperglycaemia
and fluctuations in blood glucose lead to generation of ROS, it
follows that aggressive treatment of fasting and postprandial
hyperglycaemia is important for prevention of micro and macrovascular
complications in T2DM.”

Source: Int J Clin Pract. 2006 March; 60(3): 308–314.
Title: “Oxidative stress in type 2 diabetes: the role of fasting and
postprandial glycaemia.”

AND:

"Lipid Peroxidation and Lipid Profile in Type II Diabetes Mellitus."

The study was designed to find out the relation between lipid
peroxidation, lipoprotein levels to severity and complication of
diabetes mellitus. Degree of lipid peroxidation was measured in terms
of malondialdehyde (MDA) along with antioxidants, lipid profile and
blood glucose in diabetes mellitus. Total 100 human subjects, out of
which 50 healthy individuals of age group (50-70years) were taken as
control & 50 elderly diabetic subjects of age group (50-70years) were
taken as cases. There was significant increase in the lipid profile
except HDL cholesterol, which is decreased, Also significant decrease
in antioxidant enzymes such as Reduced glutathione, glutathione
peroxidase, glutathione reductase, superoxide dismutase except
catalase was seen as compared to the control subjects. Other findings
observed was that the level of lipid peroxide (MDA) increased as per
the increase in concentration of blood glucose. Our findings indicate
that the increase in the lipid peroxidation product MDA and decline in
glutathione-dependent antioxidant defences may appear early in non
insulin dependent type 2diabetes mellitus patients.,,

In conclusion, the present study supported the hypothesis that
hyperglycemia activates cellular and tissue damage by oxidative
stress. However, there were compensatory mechanisms for defense
against the ROS. Normalization of oxidative stress was not achieved in
the diabetic patients.The results suggest that the increase in lipid
peroxidation and the decline in antioxidant defences may appear early
in NIDDM patients, before the development of secondary complications,
and might play an important role in the initiation and progression of
diabetic complications. Our results also suggest that there seems to
be an imbalance between plasma oxidant and antioxidant systems in
patients with NIDDM. Thus, any means that can reduce the oxidative
damage may be beneficial for treatment of diabetic patients in the
future.

http://www.webmedcentral.com/article_view/3147

However, the "coup de grace" to this nonsense is that there is
evidence that the opposite is actually the case, for example:

"OBJECTIVE—Insulin secretion in response to carbohydrate intake is
blunted in type 2 diabetic patients. However, it is not clear whether
the insulin response to other stimuli, such as amino acids, is also
diminished. Recently, we defined an optimal insulinoptropic mixture
containing free leucine, phenylalanine, and a protein hydrolysate that
substantially enhances the insulin response in healthy young subjects
when coingested with carbohydrate. In this study, we aimed to
investigate the insulinotropic capacity of this mixture in long-term
type 2 diabetic patients.

RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS—Ten type 2 diabetic patients (aged 59.1±
2.0 years, BMI 26.5 ± 0.7 kg/m2) and 10 healthy control subjects (58.8
± 2.1 years, 26.5 ± 0.7 kg/m2) visited our lab twice, during which
insulin responses were determined following ingestion of carbohydrate
only (CHO) or carbohydrate with the free amino acid/protein mixture
(CHO+PRO). All subjects received 0.7 g · kg−1 · h−1 carbohydrate with
or without 0.35 g · kg−1 · h−1 of the amino acid/protein mixture.

RESULTS—Insulin responses were dramatically increased in the CHO+PRO
trial in both the type 2 diabetic and control groups (189 and 114%,
respectively) compared with the CHO trial (P < 0.01). Plasma glucose,
glucagon, growth hormone, cortisol, IGF-I, and IGF binding protein 3
responses were not different between trials within the 2-h time frame.

CONCLUSIONS—The insulin secretory capacity in long-term type 2
diabetic patients is substantially underestimated, as the insulin
response following carbohydrate intake can be nearly tripled by
coingestion of a free amino acid/protein mixture. Future research
should be performed to investigate whether such nutritional
interventions can improve postprandial glucose disposal."

Source: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/26/3/625.long

[Zrupfter]

>"Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote
> I didn't say it was before middle age. What age is middle age anyway?

Well, you kept bringing up that pregnancy thing.
Women usually don't get pregnant after middle age.

> Tortillas are not salted. I did have pre-eclampsia. I was taking both
> iron and a pre-natal which includes folic acid.

There is a time when iron is necessary during pregnancy, but not
when you're prone to develop gestational diabetes and/or eclampsia.
Taking folic acid alone will take care of iron requirements in that case.

Prenatals can cause more problems than they solve - particularly when
there is a risk or history of miscarriage, because the body generally
has nutritional needs that are different than what is supplied in the
average prenatal formulation.

>> check for calcium or magnesium status...

> Nonsense!

How do you know? If their levels are off, they can contribute
to these types of problems. Of course those taking statin drugs,
OTC meds such as Tylenol, or maintain specific lifestyles that mess
with their liver functions can also trigger T2 Diabetes as a result.

The trick is to figure out if the reason for your medical situation is
something that is in your control and can be resolved, or whether you
can blame your genes and all you can do is try to make the best of it...

[montygraham]

NOTE: Those who ingest a lot more meat and dairy than the "typical
American" probably do general more free radicals, in general of
course, but this does not have to be the case. One can eat cheese
without heating it up to very high temperatures (such as in pizza,
which is usually made with highly peroxidizable cheap oils), for
example. And the more meat and dairy, the less antixidant-rich foods
are ingested, again, generally speaking (which seems to be the case
here, as there is no suggestion that diets were studied with much if
any specificity).

[Julie Bove]

"Zrupfter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:jnnc4h$ngg$[email protected]..
> >"Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote
>> I didn't say it was before middle age. What age is middle age anyway?
>
> Well, you kept bringing up that pregnancy thing.
> Women usually don't get pregnant after middle age.

I was 39. What do you consider to be middle age?
>
>> Tortillas are not salted. I did have pre-eclampsia. I was taking both
>> iron and a pre-natal which includes folic acid.
>
> There is a time when iron is necessary during pregnancy, but not
> when you're prone to develop gestational diabetes and/or eclampsia.
> Taking folic acid alone will take care of iron requirements in that case.

I don't know about that.
>
> Prenatals can cause more problems than they solve - particularly when
> there is a risk or history of miscarriage, because the body generally
> has nutritional needs that are different than what is supplied in the
> average prenatal formulation.

Okay,,,
>
>>> check for calcium or magnesium status...
>
>> Nonsense!
>
> How do you know? If their levels are off, they can contribute
> to these types of problems. Of course those taking statin drugs,
> OTC meds such as Tylenol, or maintain specific lifestyles that mess
> with their liver functions can also trigger T2 Diabetes as a result.
>
> The trick is to figure out if the reason for your medical situation is
> something that is in your control and can be resolved, or whether you
> can blame your genes and all you can do is try to make the best of it...

Cite for that?

[jay]

> My diet consisted mainly of white rice, brown rice pasta, some tortillas,
> a lot of beans, popcorn and huge salads and other raw veggies...

In general, your diet & lifestyle don't seem to have been particularly
egregious. Doesn't seem that you had much PUFA in your diet either.

Following is one proposed model that leads to damaged proteins (it
doesn't take genetics into consideration) :

SFA (farmed animals, dairy, hydrogenated) + glucose (grains, processed
foods) - polyphenols (processed diet) > Superoxide (via mito & NOX) >
hydrogen peroxide + iron > hydroxyl radical + PUFA > aldehydes +
protein structures (leucine > +mTOR) > protein carbonylation.

Interesting to me is that milk has no iron (in fact it has iron
chelators) and minimal PUFA and protein.

This just a hypothesis, maybe anemia is a defensive mechanism the body
takes to reduce the production of excessive free radicals. Thus,
supplementing with iron, iron-fortified foods, red meats and cooking
with iron cookware might be counter productive. In general, do anemics
who are given iron supplement end up recovering or getting worse over
time?

[Julie Bove]

"jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
>> My diet consisted mainly of white rice, brown rice pasta, some tortillas,
>> a lot of beans, popcorn and huge salads and other raw veggies...
>
> In general, your diet & lifestyle don't seem to have been particularly
> egregious. Doesn't seem that you had much PUFA in your diet either.

I don't even know what that means.
>
> Following is one proposed model that leads to damaged proteins (it
> doesn't take genetics into consideration) :
>
> SFA (farmed animals, dairy, hydrogenated) + glucose (grains, processed
> foods) - polyphenols (processed diet) > Superoxide (via mito & NOX) >
> hydrogen peroxide + iron > hydroxyl radical + PUFA > aldehydes +
> protein structures (leucine > +mTOR) > protein carbonylation.
>
> Interesting to me is that milk has no iron (in fact it has iron
> chelators) and minimal PUFA and protein.

I never had or have milk. Can't stand the stuff.
>
> This just a hypothesis, maybe anemia is a defensive mechanism the body
> takes to reduce the production of excessive free radicals. Thus,
> supplementing with iron, iron-fortified foods, red meats and cooking
> with iron cookware might be counter productive. In general, do anemics
> who are given iron supplement end up recovering or getting worse over
> time?

In my case almost always the anemia came from heavy bleeding of the female
kind. Yes, I had 5 threatened miscarriages when pregnant and there was
bleeding. In my case it goes away but it always seems to come back. I seem
to need to eat red meat twice weekly which I don't like to do. I really
don't like meat and have found myself slipping back into not eating it much.
I don't feel that I am anemic now but I was a couple of months ago. Just
ever so slightly.

My grandma had pernicious anemia. She had to take vitamin B12 shots all of
the time.

[Zrupfter]

"Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote
> In my case almost always the anemia came from heavy bleeding of the female
> kind. Yes, I had 5 threatened miscarriages when pregnant and there was
> bleeding...
>
Looks like a classic example of high estrogen,
which inhibits potassium, results in heavier periods,
increases the risk for miscarriages, and at times
predisposes for T2 diabetes.

As mentioned, iron isn't the way to go, but you need
folic acid, higher amounts of Vitamin C (which lowers
estrogen - or helps the liver break it down better),
and you *may* need extra amounts of other estrogen
inhibitors such as potassium (which you are already
taking) calcium, magnesium, or Vitamin B6.

Zinc works as well, but it may lower iron too much,
which you don't want in your case. And again as
mentioned, stay away from anything that worsens
liver functions, because that will worsen your estrogen
status, and with it your symptoms.

[Julie Bove]

"Zrupfter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:jnsufc$677$[email protected]..
> "Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote
>> In my case almost always the anemia came from heavy bleeding of the
>> female kind. Yes, I had 5 threatened miscarriages when pregnant and
>> there was bleeding...
>>
> Looks like a classic example of high estrogen,
> which inhibits potassium, results in heavier periods,
> increases the risk for miscarriages, and at times
> predisposes for T2 diabetes.
>
> As mentioned, iron isn't the way to go, but you need
> folic acid, higher amounts of Vitamin C (which lowers
> estrogen - or helps the liver break it down better),
> and you *may* need extra amounts of other estrogen
> inhibitors such as potassium (which you are already
> taking) calcium, magnesium, or Vitamin B6.
>
> Zinc works as well, but it may lower iron too much,
> which you don't want in your case. And again as
> mentioned, stay away from anything that worsens
> liver functions, because that will worsen your estrogen
> status, and with it your symptoms.

What worsens liver functions?

[John H. Gohde]

On May 1, 11:15*pm, jay <jaym1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> This just a hypothesis, maybe anemia is a defensive mechanism the body
> takes to reduce the production of excessive free radicals. Thus,
> supplementing with iron, iron-fortified foods, red meats and cooking
> with iron cookware might be counter productive. In general, do anemics
> who are given iron supplement end up recovering or getting worse over
> time?

Using my keen observational skills, which historically have been the
bedrock of science except in the modern era of big pharma, ... anemia
is your primary concern.

I, further, hypothesize that what you are really getting at is
preventing low-energy levels.

Supplementing with vitamin D-3 at around 5,000 a day will boost your
energy levels within 30 days. In addition, supplementing with
astaxanthin at 10 mg a day boosts energy levels as well eliminating
chronic inflammation.

Both of these supplements are fat soluble and thus should be either
taken first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, or with a meal
that contains some healthy fat or oil.

Be warned: supplementing with vitamin D-3 will also protect you
against at least 18 different forms of cancer, improve just about
every life function, as well as protect from just about every chronic
disease imaginable. Of course, to do that you would want to maintain
your serum 25(OH)D levels between 80 and 100 ng/mL indefinitely or for
at least a couple of years.

[Maya Zuiderweg]

John H. Gohde formuleerde op donderdag :
> On May 1, 11:15*pm, jay <jaym1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> This just a hypothesis, maybe anemia is a defensive mechanism the body
>> takes to reduce the production of excessive free radicals. Thus,
>> supplementing with iron, iron-fortified foods, red meats and cooking
>> with iron cookware might be counter productive. In general, do anemics
>> who are given iron supplement end up recovering or getting worse over
>> time?
>
> Using my keen observational skills, which historically have been the
> bedrock of science except in the modern era of big pharma, ... anemia
> is your primary concern.
>
> I, further, hypothesize that what you are really getting at is
> preventing low-energy levels.
>
> Supplementing with vitamin D-3 at around 5,000 a day will boost your
> energy levels within 30 days. In addition, supplementing with
> astaxanthin at 10 mg a day boosts energy levels as well eliminating
> chronic inflammation.
>
> Both of these supplements are fat soluble and thus should be either
> taken first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, or with a meal
> that contains some healthy fat or oil.
>
> Be warned: supplementing with vitamin D-3 will also protect you
> against at least 18 different forms of cancer, improve just about
> every life function, as well as protect from just about every chronic
> disease imaginable. Of course, to do that you would want to maintain
> your serum 25(OH)D levels between 80 and 100 ng/mL indefinitely or for
> at least a couple of years.

Good to know. My serum-levels for D3 are 85 ng/mL. Measured: 15-1-2012.
One year ago: 15 ng/mL. Soooo. I was hoping to feel 100% better, but
no.
How many years?
M.

[John H. Gohde]

On May 3, 12:51*pm, Maya Zuiderweg <
$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
> John H. Gohde formuleerde op donderdag :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 1, 11:15*pm, jay <jaym1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> This just a hypothesis, maybe anemia is a defensive mechanism the body
> >> takes to reduce the production of excessive free radicals. Thus,
> >> supplementing with iron, iron-fortified foods, red meats and cooking
> >> with iron cookware might be counter productive. In general, do anemics
> >> who are given iron supplement end up recovering or getting worse over
> >> time?
>
> > Using my keen observational skills, which historically have been the
> > bedrock of science except in the modern era of big pharma, ... anemia
> > is your primary concern.
>
> > I, further, hypothesize that what you are really getting at is
> > preventing low-energy levels.
>
> > Supplementing with vitamin D-3 at around 5,000 a day will boost your
> > energy levels within 30 days. *In addition, supplementing with
> > astaxanthin at 10 mg a day boosts energy levels as well eliminating
> > chronic inflammation.
>
> > Both of these supplements are fat soluble and thus should be either
> > taken first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, or with a meal
> > that contains some healthy fat or oil.
>
> > Be warned: *supplementing with vitamin D-3 will also protect you
> > against at least 18 different forms of cancer, improve just about
> > every life function, as well as protect from just about every chronic
> > disease imaginable. *Of course, to do that you would want to maintain
> > your serum 25(OH)D levels between 80 and 100 ng/mL indefinitely or for
> > at least a couple of years.
>
> Good to know. My serum-levels for D3 are 85 ng/mL. Measured: 15-1-2012.
> One year ago: 15 ng/mL. Soooo. I was hoping to feel 100% better, but
> no.
> How many years?
> M.

Interesting ...

You are the first person that I have come across to report a lukewarm
response to vitamin D-3. Of course, preventing cancer is NOT exactly
NEGATIVE.

Going from 15 ng/mL to 85 ng/m, you should have been climbing the
walls in just 30 days.

I feel great to the point of feeling a little bit too much on cloud
nine. You could always try increasing your dosage.

Furthermore, a number of other supplements are required for the full
anti-cancer effect: Calcium, Selenium, Zinc, Boron, and even K-2.

[Zrupfter]

> "Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> What worsens liver functions?
>
Here is a list www.acu-cell.com/femn.html#liver
of some common items that may or may not apply.
It gives you a general idea of what to avoid. Iron is
generally stored with congestive liver disease as well,
but that applies more to men or non-menstruating
women.
You're probably aware that a higher mean average of
E1 and E2 estrogen over a lifetime increases the risk
of other nasty developments, in addition to the usual
weight / mood / PMS thing, or more fibroid activity,
particularly as you head into your forties.

Other than higher amounts of Vitamin C, Milk thistle
is even more effective in helping the liver break down
excessive estrogen levels (in both men and women).

However, while higher amounts of milk thistle can also
reduce iron stores in the liver - which is a good or bad
thing, depending on circumstances - Vitamin C only gets
rid of manganese, which causes estrogen retention, but
it preserves iron stores, or actually helps increase iron
absorption.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

On 5/3/2012 7:37 PM, Zrupfter wrote:

> You're probably aware that a higher mean average of
> E1 and E2 estrogen over a lifetime increases the risk
> of other nasty developments, in addition to the usual
> weight / mood / PMS thing, or more fibroid activity,
> particularly as you head into your forties.

I suspect that depends upon why E is high, and what the source is.

Susan

[Julie Bove]

"Zrupfter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:jnv4r1$15b$[email protected]..
>> "Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> What worsens liver functions?
>>
> Here is a list www.acu-cell.com/femn.html#liver
> of some common items that may or may not apply.
> It gives you a general idea of what to avoid. Iron is
> generally stored with congestive liver disease as well,
> but that applies more to men or non-menstruating
> women.

I do take Evening Primrose Oil for Neuropathy. I don't have congestive
liver disease.

> You're probably aware that a higher mean average of
> E1 and E2 estrogen over a lifetime increases the risk
> of other nasty developments, in addition to the usual
> weight / mood / PMS thing, or more fibroid activity,
> particularly as you head into your forties.

I don't know anything about estrogen at all. I've never had PMS or
fibroids. And I am in my 50's now.
>
> Other than higher amounts of Vitamin C, Milk thistle
> is even more effective in helping the liver break down
> excessive estrogen levels (in both men and women).

Milk thistle didn't seem to do a thing for me.
>
> However, while higher amounts of milk thistle can also
> reduce iron stores in the liver - which is a good or bad
> thing, depending on circumstances - Vitamin C only gets
> rid of manganese, which causes estrogen retention, but
> it preserves iron stores, or actually helps increase iron
> absorption.

Okay... Whatever. I don't think any of this applies to me.

[John H. Gohde]

On May 3, 12:51*pm, Maya Zuiderweg <
$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
> John H. Gohde formuleerde op donderdag :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 1, 11:15*pm, jay <jaym1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> This just a hypothesis, maybe anemia is a defensive mechanism the body
> >> takes to reduce the production of excessive free radicals. Thus,
> >> supplementing with iron, iron-fortified foods, red meats and cooking
> >> with iron cookware might be counter productive. In general, do anemics
> >> who are given iron supplement end up recovering or getting worse over
> >> time?
>
> > Using my keen observational skills, which historically have been the
> > bedrock of science except in the modern era of big pharma, ... anemia
> > is your primary concern.
>
> > I, further, hypothesize that what you are really getting at is
> > preventing low-energy levels.
>
> > Supplementing with vitamin D-3 at around 5,000 a day will boost your
> > energy levels within 30 days. *In addition, supplementing with
> > astaxanthin at 10 mg a day boosts energy levels as well eliminating
> > chronic inflammation.
>
> > Both of these supplements are fat soluble and thus should be either
> > taken first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, or with a meal
> > that contains some healthy fat or oil.
>
> > Be warned: *supplementing with vitamin D-3 will also protect you
> > against at least 18 different forms of cancer, improve just about
> > every life function, as well as protect from just about every chronic
> > disease imaginable. *Of course, to do that you would want to maintain
> > your serum 25(OH)D levels between 80 and 100 ng/mL indefinitely or for
> > at least a couple of years.
>
> Good to know. My serum-levels for D3 are 85 ng/mL. Measured: 15-1-2012.
> One year ago: 15 ng/mL. Soooo. I was hoping to feel 100% better, but
> no.
> How many years?
> M.

My previous reply appears to have disappeared in the Google interface
bit heaven, so I will take another wrack at it.

You are the first person to have reported a lukewarm response to
vitamin D-3 supplementation, that I am aware of.

Personally, I can feel the difference between 80 ng/mL serum-levels
and 100 ng/mL. At 80 I feel fairly normal, but still full of energy.
Getting to 100 requires either a bunch of double dosing, or single
dosing along with lots of sun exposure. When I hit the 100 ng/mL
serum-levels, I begin to feel and act noticeably hyperactive.

In other words, 10,000 IU a day puts me in the 100 ng/mL serum-level
range. Ergo, my only suggestion would be to increase your dosage of
vitamin D-3.

In addition, even for better blood sugar control calcium is required.
Thus, are you supplementing with calcium too?

Research clearly shows that vitamin D-3 and calcium ions clearly
improves and / or prevents type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, and
glycemia. There is every reason to believe that adequate levels of
both can optimize glucose metabolism.

[Zrupfter]

> "Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Okay... Whatever. I don't think any of this applies to me.
>
Seems that way. Just proves that incremental or fractional
information - remote or hands-on - is a poor way to assess a
medical situation.

[Maya Zuiderweg]

John H. Gohde had uiteengezet :
> On May 3, 12:51*pm, Maya Zuiderweg <
> $no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
>> John H. Gohde formuleerde op donderdag :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On May 1, 11:15*pm, jay <jaym1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> This just a hypothesis, maybe anemia is a defensive mechanism the body
>>>> takes to reduce the production of excessive free radicals. Thus,
>>>> supplementing with iron, iron-fortified foods, red meats and cooking
>>>> with iron cookware might be counter productive. In general, do anemics
>>>> who are given iron supplement end up recovering or getting worse over
>>>> time?
>>
>>> Using my keen observational skills, which historically have been the
>>> bedrock of science except in the modern era of big pharma, ... anemia
>>> is your primary concern.
>>
>>> I, further, hypothesize that what you are really getting at is
>>> preventing low-energy levels.
>>
>>> Supplementing with vitamin D-3 at around 5,000 a day will boost your
>>> energy levels within 30 days. *In addition, supplementing with
>>> astaxanthin at 10 mg a day boosts energy levels as well eliminating
>>> chronic inflammation.
>>
>>> Both of these supplements are fat soluble and thus should be either
>>> taken first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, or with a meal
>>> that contains some healthy fat or oil.
>>> Be warned: *supplementing with vitamin D-3 will also protect you
>>> against at least 18 different forms of cancer, improve just about
>>> every life function, as well as protect from just about every chronic
>>> disease imaginable. *Of course, to do that you would want to maintain
>>> your serum 25(OH)D levels between 80 and 100 ng/mL indefinitely or for
>>> at least a couple of years.
>>
>> Good to know. My serum-levels for D3 are 85 ng/mL. Measured: 15-1-2012.
>> One year ago: 15 ng/mL. Soooo. I was hoping to feel 100% better, but
>> no.
>> How many years?
>> M.
>
> My previous reply appears to have disappeared in the Google interface
> bit heaven, so I will take another wrack at it.
>
> You are the first person to have reported a lukewarm response to
> vitamin D-3 supplementation, that I am aware of.
>
> Personally, I can feel the difference between 80 ng/mL serum-levels
> and 100 ng/mL. At 80 I feel fairly normal, but still full of energy.
> Getting to 100 requires either a bunch of double dosing, or single
> dosing along with lots of sun exposure. When I hit the 100 ng/mL
> serum-levels, I begin to feel and act noticeably hyperactive.
>
> In other words, 10,000 IU a day puts me in the 100 ng/mL serum-level
> range. Ergo, my only suggestion would be to increase your dosage of
> vitamin D-3.
>
> In addition, even for better blood sugar control calcium is required.
> Thus, are you supplementing with calcium too?
>
> Research clearly shows that vitamin D-3 and calcium ions clearly
> improves and / or prevents type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, and
> glycemia. There is every reason to believe that adequate levels of
> both can optimize glucose metabolism.

I can see both (former) replies: yours and mine. Another attempt..
Times of measuring: 15-1-2011: 15ng/mL///17-7-2011:
50ng/mL///15-1-2012:85ng/mL.
Intake of vitD3: first half year: 1000 IU. Second half year 1000 IU.
Third half year: 1400 IU.
Note: I never took D3 before.
BTW, I supplement with calcium too.

Maybe the reason that I dont react like climbing walls has to do with
years of being very thin+weak.
Maya

[None Given]

On May 4, 9:18*am, Maya Zuiderweg <
$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
> John H. Gohde had uiteengezet :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 3, 12:51*pm, Maya Zuiderweg <
> > $no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
> >> John H. Gohde formuleerde op donderdag :
>
> >>> On May 1, 11:15*pm, jay <jaym1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> This just a hypothesis, maybe anemia is a defensive mechanism the body
> >>>> takes to reduce the production of excessive free radicals. Thus,
> >>>> supplementing with iron, iron-fortified foods, red meats and cooking
> >>>> with iron cookware might be counter productive. In general, do anemics
> >>>> who are given iron supplement end up recovering or getting worse over
> >>>> time?
>
> >>> Using my keen observational skills, which historically have been the
> >>> bedrock of science except in the modern era of big pharma, ... anemia
> >>> is your primary concern.
>
> >>> I, further, hypothesize that what you are really getting at is
> >>> preventing low-energy levels.
>
> >>> Supplementing with vitamin D-3 at around 5,000 a day will boost your
> >>> energy levels within 30 days. *In addition, supplementing with
> >>> astaxanthin at 10 mg a day boosts energy levels as well eliminating
> >>> chronic inflammation.
>
> >>> Both of these supplements are fat soluble and thus should be either
> >>> taken first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, or with a meal
> >>> that contains some healthy fat or oil.
> >>> Be warned: *supplementing with vitamin D-3 will also protect you
> >>> against at least 18 different forms of cancer, improve just about
> >>> every life function, as well as protect from just about every chronic
> >>> disease imaginable. *Of course, to do that you would want to maintain
> >>> your serum 25(OH)D levels between 80 and 100 ng/mL indefinitely or for
> >>> at least a couple of years.
>
> >> Good to know. My serum-levels for D3 are 85 ng/mL. Measured: 15-1-2012..
> >> One year ago: 15 ng/mL. Soooo. I was hoping to feel 100% better, but
> >> no.
> >> How many years?
> >> M.
>
> > My previous reply appears to have disappeared in the Google interface
> > bit heaven, so I will take another wrack at it.
>
> > You are the first person to have reported a lukewarm response to
> > vitamin D-3 supplementation, that I am aware of.
>
> > Personally, I can feel the difference between 80 ng/mL serum-levels
> > and 100 ng/mL. *At 80 I feel fairly normal, but still full of energy.
> > Getting to 100 requires either a bunch of double dosing, or single
> > dosing along with lots of sun exposure. *When I hit the 100 ng/mL
> > serum-levels, I begin to feel and act noticeably hyperactive.
>
> > In other words, 10,000 IU a day puts me in the 100 ng/mL serum-level
> > range. *Ergo, my only suggestion would be to increase your dosage of
> > vitamin D-3.
>
> > In addition, even for better blood sugar control calcium is required.
> > Thus, are you supplementing with calcium too?
>
> > Research clearly shows that vitamin D-3 and calcium ions clearly
> > improves and / or prevents *type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, and
> > glycemia. *There is every reason to believe that adequate levels of
> > both can optimize glucose metabolism.
>
> I can see both (former) replies: yours and mine. Another attempt..
> Times of measuring: 15-1-2011: 15ng/mL///17-7-2011:
> 50ng/mL///15-1-2012:85ng/mL.
> Intake of vitD3: first half year: 1000 IU. Second half year 1000 IU.
> Third half year: 1400 IU.
> Note: I never took D3 before.
> BTW, I supplement with calcium too.
>
> Maybe the reason that I dont react like climbing walls has to do with
> years of being very thin+weak.
> Maya

[None Given]

On May 4, 9:18*am, Maya Zuiderweg <
$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
> John H. Gohde had uiteengezet :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 3, 12:51*pm, Maya Zuiderweg <
> > $no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
> >> John H. Gohde formuleerde op donderdag :
>
> >>> On May 1, 11:15*pm, jay <jaym1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> This just a hypothesis, maybe anemia is a defensive mechanism the body
> >>>> takes to reduce the production of excessive free radicals. Thus,
> >>>> supplementing with iron, iron-fortified foods, red meats and cooking
> >>>> with iron cookware might be counter productive. In general, do anemics
> >>>> who are given iron supplement end up recovering or getting worse over
> >>>> time?
>
> >>> Using my keen observational skills, which historically have been the
> >>> bedrock of science except in the modern era of big pharma, ... anemia
> >>> is your primary concern.
>
> >>> I, further, hypothesize that what you are really getting at is
> >>> preventing low-energy levels.
>
> >>> Supplementing with vitamin D-3 at around 5,000 a day will boost your
> >>> energy levels within 30 days. *In addition, supplementing with
> >>> astaxanthin at 10 mg a day boosts energy levels as well eliminating
> >>> chronic inflammation.
>
> >>> Both of these supplements are fat soluble and thus should be either
> >>> taken first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, or with a meal
> >>> that contains some healthy fat or oil.
> >>> Be warned: *supplementing with vitamin D-3 will also protect you
> >>> against at least 18 different forms of cancer, improve just about
> >>> every life function, as well as protect from just about every chronic
> >>> disease imaginable. *Of course, to do that you would want to maintain
> >>> your serum 25(OH)D levels between 80 and 100 ng/mL indefinitely or for
> >>> at least a couple of years.
>
> >> Good to know. My serum-levels for D3 are 85 ng/mL. Measured: 15-1-2012..
> >> One year ago: 15 ng/mL. Soooo. I was hoping to feel 100% better, but
> >> no.
> >> How many years?
> >> M.
>
> > My previous reply appears to have disappeared in the Google interface
> > bit heaven, so I will take another wrack at it.
>
> > You are the first person to have reported a lukewarm response to
> > vitamin D-3 supplementation, that I am aware of.
>
> > Personally, I can feel the difference between 80 ng/mL serum-levels
> > and 100 ng/mL. *At 80 I feel fairly normal, but still full of energy.
> > Getting to 100 requires either a bunch of double dosing, or single
> > dosing along with lots of sun exposure. *When I hit the 100 ng/mL
> > serum-levels, I begin to feel and act noticeably hyperactive.
>
> > In other words, 10,000 IU a day puts me in the 100 ng/mL serum-level
> > range. *Ergo, my only suggestion would be to increase your dosage of
> > vitamin D-3.
>
> > In addition, even for better blood sugar control calcium is required.
> > Thus, are you supplementing with calcium too?
>
> > Research clearly shows that vitamin D-3 and calcium ions clearly
> > improves and / or prevents *type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, and
> > glycemia. *There is every reason to believe that adequate levels of
> > both can optimize glucose metabolism.
>
> I can see both (former) replies: yours and mine. Another attempt..
> Times of measuring: 15-1-2011: 15ng/mL///17-7-2011:
> 50ng/mL///15-1-2012:85ng/mL.
> Intake of vitD3: first half year: 1000 IU. Second half year 1000 IU.
> Third half year: 1400 IU.
> Note: I never took D3 before.
> BTW, I supplement with calcium too.
>
> Maybe the reason that I dont react like climbing walls has to do with
> years of being very thin+weak.
> Maya

Sorry on the empty posting. There is likely a large genetic factor
with
vitamin D levels. Anyway there is a number of other factors, such
as age, sun exposure, sunscreen use, smog, health history, meds,
.....................................

It's a Depression in the over view.....................Trig

[Maya Zuiderweg]

None Given heeft uiteengezet op 5-5-2012 :
> On May 4, 9:18*am, Maya Zuiderweg <
> $no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
>> John H. Gohde had uiteengezet :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On May 3, 12:51*pm, Maya Zuiderweg <
>>> $no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
>>>> John H. Gohde formuleerde op donderdag :
>>>>> On May 1, 11:15*pm, jay <jaym1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> This just a hypothesis, maybe anemia is a defensive mechanism the body
>>>>>> takes to reduce the production of excessive free radicals. Thus,
>>>>>> supplementing with iron, iron-fortified foods, red meats and cooking
>>>>>> with iron cookware might be counter productive. In general, do anemics
>>>>>> who are given iron supplement end up recovering or getting worse over
>>>>>> time?
>>
>>>>> Using my keen observational skills, which historically have been the
>>>>> bedrock of science except in the modern era of big pharma, ... anemia
>>>>> is your primary concern.
>>
>>>>> I, further, hypothesize that what you are really getting at is
>>>>> preventing low-energy levels.
>>
>>>>> Supplementing with vitamin D-3 at around 5,000 a day will boost your
>>>>> energy levels within 30 days. *In addition, supplementing with
>>>>> astaxanthin at 10 mg a day boosts energy levels as well eliminating
>>>>> chronic inflammation.
>>
>>>>> Both of these supplements are fat soluble and thus should be either
>>>>> taken first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, or with a meal
>>>>> that contains some healthy fat or oil.
>>>>> Be warned: *supplementing with vitamin D-3 will also protect you
>>>>> against at least 18 different forms of cancer, improve just about
>>>>> every life function, as well as protect from just about every chronic
>>>>> disease imaginable. *Of course, to do that you would want to maintain
>>>>> your serum 25(OH)D levels between 80 and 100 ng/mL indefinitely or for
>>>>> at least a couple of years.
>>
>>>> Good to know. My serum-levels for D3 are 85 ng/mL. Measured: 15-1-2012.
>>>> One year ago: 15 ng/mL. Soooo. I was hoping to feel 100% better, but
>>>> no.
>>>> How many years?
>>>> M.
>>
>>> My previous reply appears to have disappeared in the Google interface
>>> bit heaven, so I will take another wrack at it.
>>> You are the first person to have reported a lukewarm response to
>>> vitamin D-3 supplementation, that I am aware of.
>>> Personally, I can feel the difference between 80 ng/mL serum-levels
>>> and 100 ng/mL. *At 80 I feel fairly normal, but still full of energy.
>>> Getting to 100 requires either a bunch of double dosing, or single
>>> dosing along with lots of sun exposure. *When I hit the 100 ng/mL
>>> serum-levels, I begin to feel and act noticeably hyperactive.
>>> In other words, 10,000 IU a day puts me in the 100 ng/mL serum-level
>>> range. *Ergo, my only suggestion would be to increase your dosage of
>>> vitamin D-3.
>>
>>> In addition, even for better blood sugar control calcium is required.
>>> Thus, are you supplementing with calcium too?
>>> Research clearly shows that vitamin D-3 and calcium ions clearly
>>> improves and / or prevents *type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, and
>>> glycemia. *There is every reason to believe that adequate levels of
>>> both can optimize glucose metabolism.
>>
>> I can see both (former) replies: yours and mine. Another attempt..
>> Times of measuring: 15-1-2011: 15ng/mL///17-7-2011:
>> 50ng/mL///15-1-2012:85ng/mL.
>> Intake of vitD3: first half year: 1000 IU. Second half year 1000 IU.
>> Third half year: 1400 IU.
>> Note: I never took D3 before.
>> BTW, I supplement with calcium too.
>>
>> Maybe the reason that I dont react like climbing walls has to do with
>> years of being very thin+weak.
>> Maya
>
> Sorry on the empty posting. There is likely a large genetic factor
> with
> vitamin D levels. Anyway there is a number of other factors, such
> as age, sun exposure, sunscreen use, smog, health history, meds,
> ....................................
Hi Trig,
Some of these are known to me: age (65), sun exposure (next to none),
sunscreen use (of no importance), smog (not much), health history (a
heap), meds(which ones do you mean?)
>
> It's a Depression in the over view.....................Trig
I dont understand this last remark. What do you mean?

Maya

[outsider]

On 5/6/2012 9:07 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
> None Given heeft uiteengezet op 5-5-2012 :
>> On May 4, 9:18 am, Maya Zuiderweg <
>> $no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
>>> John H. Gohde had uiteengezet :

>>> Maybe the reason that I dont react like climbing walls has to do with
>>> years of being very thin+weak.
>>> Maya
>>
>> Sorry on the empty posting. There is likely a large genetic factor
>> with
>> vitamin D levels. Anyway there is a number of other factors, such
>> as age, sun exposure, sunscreen use, smog, health history, meds,
>> ....................................
> Hi Trig,
> Some of these are known to me: age (65), sun exposure (next to none),
> sunscreen use (of no importance), smog (not much), health history (a
> heap), meds(which ones do you mean?)
>>
>> It's a Depression in the over view.....................Trig
> I dont understand this last remark. What do you mean?

Genetic factors and climbing, hmmmm. One of my aunts wrote to my dad
on her 65th birthday that she was experiencing difficulty in climbing
trees, and sent him a recent photo of her about 20 feet ( ~3M) up.

One of my daughters exhibited that same propensity in her youth, but
other genetic factors, and eating habits, have made her too heavy to
continue that into her 30's, let alone later.

No one else in tghe family has exhibited much of an interest in
climbing for the sake of it.

[Maya Zuiderweg]

outsider plaatste dit op zijn scherm :
> On 5/6/2012 9:07 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>> None Given heeft uiteengezet op 5-5-2012 :
>>> On May 4, 9:18 am, Maya Zuiderweg <
>>> $no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
>>>> John H. Gohde had uiteengezet :
>
>>>> Maybe the reason that I dont react like climbing walls has to do with
>>>> years of being very thin+weak.
>>>> Maya
>>>
>>> Sorry on the empty posting. There is likely a large genetic factor
>>> with
>>> vitamin D levels. Anyway there is a number of other factors, such
>>> as age, sun exposure, sunscreen use, smog, health history, meds,
>>> ....................................
>> Hi Trig,
>> Some of these are known to me: age (65), sun exposure (next to none),
>> sunscreen use (of no importance), smog (not much), health history (a
>> heap), meds(which ones do you mean?)
>>>
>>> It's a Depression in the over view.....................Trig
>> I dont understand this last remark. What do you mean?
>
> Genetic factors and climbing, hmmmm. One of my aunts wrote to my dad
> on her 65th birthday that she was experiencing difficulty in climbing
> trees, and sent him a recent photo of her about 20 feet ( ~3M) up.
>
> One of my daughters exhibited that same propensity in her youth, but
> other genetic factors, and eating habits, have made her too heavy to
> continue that into her 30's, let alone later.
>
> No one else in tghe family has exhibited much of an interest in
> climbing for the sake of it.

Neverever have I had an inclination to climb.
M.

[outsider]

On 5/6/2012 4:46 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
> outsider plaatste dit op zijn scherm :
>> On 5/6/2012 9:07 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>>> None Given heeft uiteengezet op 5-5-2012 :
>>>> On May 4, 9:18 am, Maya Zuiderweg <
>>>> $no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
>>>>> John H. Gohde had uiteengezet :
>>
>>>>> Maybe the reason that I dont react like climbing walls has to do with
>>>>> years of being very thin+weak.
>>>>> Maya
>>>>
>>>> Sorry on the empty posting. There is likely a large genetic factor
>>>> with
>>>> vitamin D levels. Anyway there is a number of other factors, such
>>>> as age, sun exposure, sunscreen use, smog, health history, meds,
>>>> ....................................
>>> Hi Trig,
>>> Some of these are known to me: age (65), sun exposure (next to none),
>>> sunscreen use (of no importance), smog (not much), health history (a
>>> heap), meds(which ones do you mean?)
>>>>
>>>> It's a Depression in the over view.....................Trig
>>> I dont understand this last remark. What do you mean?
>>
>> Genetic factors and climbing, hmmmm. One of my aunts wrote to my dad
>> on her 65th birthday that she was experiencing difficulty in climbing
>> trees, and sent him a recent photo of her about 20 feet ( ~3M) up.
>>
>> One of my daughters exhibited that same propensity in her youth, but
>> other genetic factors, and eating habits, have made her too heavy to
>> continue that into her 30's, let alone later.
>>
>> No one else in tghe family has exhibited much of an interest in
>> climbing for the sake of it.
>
> Neverever have I had an inclination to climb.
> M.

And yet there are those who cannot rest until they have achieved
the top of Everest.

In my teen years I was known to climb rough surface brick walls.
Then one day I became uncomfortable on the second rung of a
5 foot stepladder. That lasted several decades. Now I can climb
ladders again, but such walls as were good sport in my teen
years aren't anything I would even consider today although I
could probably physically achieve it.

[%]

outsider wrote:
> On 5/6/2012 4:46 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>> outsider plaatste dit op zijn scherm :
>>> On 5/6/2012 9:07 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>>>> None Given heeft uiteengezet op 5-5-2012 :
>>>>> On May 4, 9:18 am, Maya Zuiderweg <
>>>>> $no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
>>>>>> John H. Gohde had uiteengezet :
>>>
>>>>>> Maybe the reason that I dont react like climbing walls has to do
>>>>>> with years of being very thin+weak.
>>>>>> Maya
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry on the empty posting. There is likely a large genetic factor
>>>>> with
>>>>> vitamin D levels. Anyway there is a number of other factors, such
>>>>> as age, sun exposure, sunscreen use, smog, health history, meds,
>>>>> ....................................
>>>> Hi Trig,
>>>> Some of these are known to me: age (65), sun exposure (next to
>>>> none), sunscreen use (of no importance), smog (not much), health
>>>> history (a heap), meds(which ones do you mean?)
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a Depression in the over view.....................Trig
>>>> I dont understand this last remark. What do you mean?
>>>
>>> Genetic factors and climbing, hmmmm. One of my aunts wrote to my dad
>>> on her 65th birthday that she was experiencing difficulty in
>>> climbing trees, and sent him a recent photo of her about 20 feet (
>>> ~3M) up.
>>>
>>> One of my daughters exhibited that same propensity in her youth, but
>>> other genetic factors, and eating habits, have made her too heavy to
>>> continue that into her 30's, let alone later.
>>>
>>> No one else in tghe family has exhibited much of an interest in
>>> climbing for the sake of it.
>>
>> Neverever have I had an inclination to climb.
>> M.
>
> And yet there are those who cannot rest until they have achieved
> the top of Everest.
>
> In my teen years I was known to climb rough surface brick walls.
> Then one day I became uncomfortable on the second rung of a
> 5 foot stepladder. That lasted several decades. Now I can climb
> ladders again, but such walls as were good sport in my teen
> years aren't anything I would even consider today although I
> could probably physically achieve it.


i climb all over everything

[hemyd]

"%" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ...
> outsider wrote:
>> On 5/6/2012 4:46 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>>> outsider plaatste dit op zijn scherm :
>>>> On 5/6/2012 9:07 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>>>>> None Given heeft uiteengezet op 5-5-2012 :
>>>>>> On May 4, 9:18 am, Maya Zuiderweg <
>>>>>> $no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
>>>>>>> John H. Gohde had uiteengezet :
>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe the reason that I dont react like climbing walls has to do
>>>>>>> with years of being very thin+weak.
>>>>>>> Maya
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry on the empty posting. There is likely a large genetic factor
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> vitamin D levels. Anyway there is a number of other factors, such
>>>>>> as age, sun exposure, sunscreen use, smog, health history, meds,
>>>>>> ....................................
>>>>> Hi Trig,
>>>>> Some of these are known to me: age (65), sun exposure (next to
>>>>> none), sunscreen use (of no importance), smog (not much), health
>>>>> history (a heap), meds(which ones do you mean?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a Depression in the over view.....................Trig
>>>>> I dont understand this last remark. What do you mean?
>>>>
>>>> Genetic factors and climbing, hmmmm. One of my aunts wrote to my dad
>>>> on her 65th birthday that she was experiencing difficulty in
>>>> climbing trees, and sent him a recent photo of her about 20 feet (
>>>> ~3M) up. One of my daughters exhibited that same propensity in her
>>>> youth, but
>>>> other genetic factors, and eating habits, have made her too heavy to
>>>> continue that into her 30's, let alone later.
>>>>
>>>> No one else in tghe family has exhibited much of an interest in
>>>> climbing for the sake of it.
>>>
>>> Neverever have I had an inclination to climb.
>>> M.
>>
>> And yet there are those who cannot rest until they have achieved
>> the top of Everest.
>>
>> In my teen years I was known to climb rough surface brick walls.
>> Then one day I became uncomfortable on the second rung of a
>> 5 foot stepladder. That lasted several decades. Now I can climb
>> ladders again, but such walls as were good sport in my teen
>> years aren't anything I would even consider today although I
>> could probably physically achieve it.
>
>
> i climb all over everything

Having spend many dozens of hours four metres up on home made scaffolding
over fifteen years, lifting heavy cement blocks, I had an unrelated accident
when a carport roof I was dismantling fell apart, and I broke my ankle.
After that, I developed a fear of heights, especially when walking down
stairs. That does not stop me, though, from taking down an overhead
projector by standing on a small classroom chair atop a small classroom
table. Yes, I know it's silly...

Henry.

[Bob Officer]

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:37:00 -0700, in alt.support.diabetes, "Julie
Bove" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Zrupfter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:jnnc4h$ngg$[email protected]..
>> >"Julie Bove" <[email protected]> wrote
>>> I didn't say it was before middle age. What age is middle age anyway?
>>
>> Well, you kept bringing up that pregnancy thing.
>> Women usually don't get pregnant after middle age.
>
>I was 39. What do you consider to be middle age?

Human Life Expectancy today is about 79 for females of all ethnic
groups. Middle age would be about 1/2 way? of 39.5 years.
>>
>>> Tortillas are not salted. I did have pre-eclampsia. I was taking both
>>> iron and a pre-natal which includes folic acid.
>>
>> There is a time when iron is necessary during pregnancy, but not
>> when you're prone to develop gestational diabetes and/or eclampsia.
>> Taking folic acid alone will take care of iron requirements in that case.
>
>I don't know about that.

I don't know, if he is not a MD, I wouldn't be Taking his words at
reliable.

>> Prenatals can cause more problems than they solve - particularly when
>> there is a risk or history of miscarriage, because the body generally
>> has nutritional needs that are different than what is supplied in the
>> average prenatal formulation.
>
>Okay,,,
>>
>>>> check for calcium or magnesium status...
>>
>>> Nonsense!
>>
>> How do you know? If their levels are off, they can contribute
>> to these types of problems. Of course those taking statin drugs,
>> OTC meds such as Tylenol, or maintain specific lifestyles that mess
>> with their liver functions can also trigger T2 Diabetes as a result.
>>
>> The trick is to figure out if the reason for your medical situation is
>> something that is in your control and can be resolved, or whether you
>> can blame your genes and all you can do is try to make the best of it...
>
>Cite for that?

Modern Blood test are able to check.




--
Ak'toh'di