Decaf with breakfast!

Interesting article in today's "National Post" (Canada). A recent
study showed that men who drank caffeinated coffee before eating a low-
carb breakfast cereal showed much higher spikes, and much longer
lasting elevated levels, of blood glucose when compared to men who
drank decaf coffee instead. I don't know if this is any way connected
to the "morning effect", but it will be decaf for me in the mornings
from now on!

On Tue, 20 May 2008 19:08:15 -0700 (PDT), KevinB
<kevinbertschglf@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>Interesting article in today's "National Post" (Canada). A recent
>study showed that men who drank caffeinated coffee before eating a low-
>carb breakfast cereal showed much higher spikes, and much longer
>lasting elevated levels, of blood glucose when compared to men who
>drank decaf coffee instead. I don't know if this is any way connected
>to the "morning effect", but it will be decaf for me in the mornings
>from now on!

Here is the abstract from
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/5/1254

This is the basic method:

"Ten healthy men underwent 4 trials in a randomized order.
They ingested caffeinated (5 mg/kg) coffee (CC) or the same
volume of decaffeinated coffee (DC) followed 1 h later by
either a high or low glycemic index (GI) cereal (providing
75 g of carbohydrate) mixed meal tolerance test."

To me, the relevance of ten non-diabetics eating 75gms of
carb, with or without coffee, is tenuous at best to our
situation. Further, ten subjects is hardly more than a pilot
study to see if further research is warranted.

I'll await that further research; in the interim I'll
continue to sip my good strong java in moderation and eat
breakfast with less than 5gms carb and conduct my own tests
for the results.


Caffeinated coffee consumption impairs blood glucose
homeostasis in response to high and low glycemic index meals
in healthy men 1,2,3

Lesley L Moisey, Sita Kacker, Andrea C Bickerton, Lindsay E
Robinson and Terry E Graham

1 From the Department of Human Health and Nutritional
Sciences, University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada

Background: The ingestion of caffeine (5 mg/kg body weight)
and a 75-g oral glucose load has been shown to elicit an
acute insulin–insensitive environment in healthy and obese
individuals and in those with type 2 diabetes.

Objective: In this study we investigated whether a similar
impairment in blood glucose management exists when coffee
and foods typical of a Western diet were used in a similar
protocol.

Design: Ten healthy men underwent 4 trials in a randomized
order. They ingested caffeinated (5 mg/kg) coffee (CC) or
the same volume of decaffeinated coffee (DC) followed 1 h
later by either a high or low glycemic index (GI) cereal
(providing 75 g of carbohydrate) mixed meal tolerance test.

Results: CC with the high GI meal resulted in 147%, 29%, and
40% greater areas under the curve for glucose (P < 0.001),
insulin (NS), and C-peptide (P < 0.001), respectively,
compared with the values for DC. Similarly, with the low GI
treatment, CC elicited 216%, 44%, and 36% greater areas
under the curve for glucose (P < 0.001), insulin (P < 0.01),
and C-peptide (P < 0.01), respectively. Insulin sensitivity
was significantly reduced (40%) with the high GI treatment
after CC was ingested compared with DC; with the low GI
treatment, CC ingestion resulted in a 29% decrease in
insulin sensitivity, although this difference was not
significant.

Conclusion: The ingestion of CC with either a high or low GI
meal significantly impairs acute blood glucose management
and insulin sensitivity compared with ingestion of DC.
Future investigations are warranted to determine whether CC
is a risk factor for insulin resistance.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 May 2008 19:08:15 -0700 (PDT), KevinB
> <kevinbertschglf@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>>Interesting article in today's "National Post" (Canada). A recent
>>study showed that men who drank caffeinated coffee before eating a low-
>>carb breakfast cereal showed much higher spikes, and much longer
>>lasting elevated levels, of blood glucose when compared to men who
>>drank decaf coffee instead. I don't know if this is any way connected
>>to the "morning effect", but it will be decaf for me in the mornings
>>from now on!

> Here is the abstract from
> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/5/1254

> This is the basic method:

> "Ten healthy men underwent 4 trials in a randomized order.
> They ingested caffeinated (5 mg/kg) coffee (CC) or the same
> volume of decaffeinated coffee (DC) followed 1 h later by
> either a high or low glycemic index (GI) cereal (providing
> 75 g of carbohydrate) mixed meal tolerance test."

> To me, the relevance of ten non-diabetics eating 75gms of
> carb, with or without coffee, is tenuous at best to our
> situation. Further, ten subjects is hardly more than a pilot
> study to see if further research is warranted.

> I'll await that further research; in the interim I'll
> continue to sip my good strong java in moderation and eat
> breakfast with less than 5gms carb and conduct my own tests
> for the results.

Thanks for looking that up. I'm not too concerned about whether my
morning very strong coffee impairs my metabolism of around 4gms of
carbohydrate. I'd be more interested in whether it impaired my
response to larger amounts of carbohydrate later in the day. Another
interesting question would be whether, if I didn't drink any
caffeinated coffee, I'd actually be capable of following the planned
experimental strategy and taking proper notes :-)

I also note that the experimenters very likely used the kind of cheap
stale coffee which is the kind most widely available. I discovered a
long time ago that at least in my case, a number of the bad effects
usually attributed to caffeine were in fact due to the oxidation
byproducts that usually accompany caffeine ib cheap stale coffee. The
symptoms which my doctor attributed to caffeine disappeared when I
stop drinking cheap stale coffee and drank instead much stronger good
fresh coffee.

> Caffeinated coffee consumption impairs blood glucose
> homeostasis in response to high and low glycemic index meals
> in healthy men 1,2,3

> Lesley L Moisey, Sita Kacker, Andrea C Bickerton, Lindsay E
> Robinson and Terry E Graham

> 1 From the Department of Human Health and Nutritional
> Sciences, University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada

> Background: The ingestion of caffeine (5 mg/kg body weight)
> and a 75-g oral glucose load has been shown to elicit an
> acute insulin-insensitive environment in healthy and obese
> individuals and in those with type 2 diabetes.

> Objective: In this study we investigated whether a similar
> impairment in blood glucose management exists when coffee
> and foods typical of a Western diet were used in a similar
> protocol.

What's more interesting is the background studies they mention.

> Conclusion: The ingestion of CC with either a high or low GI
> meal significantly impairs acute blood glucose management
> and insulin sensitivity compared with ingestion of DC.
> Future investigations are warranted to determine whether CC
> is a risk factor for insulin resistance.

I did a quick google rummage on the effects of coffee, and found
rather more generally worrying indicators than I did last time I
looked several years ago, e.g. effects on arterial stiffening and
general inflammation. I also found people interested in selling coffee
were the proud advertisers of some studies which they claimed showed
that drinking coffee reduced insulin resistance.

Hm. I've just refreshed my supply of coffee beans. I'm reluctant to
give up yet another of life's small but important pleasures. That,
however, is how I used to feel about cigarettes...

Thanks for provoking me into taking another look at what may be my
over-caffeinated complacency on this topic :-(

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

On 21 May 2008 11:13:01 GMT, Chris Malcolm
<cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

>Thanks for provoking me into taking another look at what may be my
>over-caffeinated complacency on this topic :-(

Let us know the results of your investigations. But, having
given up smokes, pavlova and mud cake it's going to take a
lot to convince me to give up coffee:-)

That caused me to look up one of my favourites; haven't
listened to this for years:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa1khK65-V8

Aaah, (sip), memories...they aged pretty well too.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

On May 20, 10:08*pm, KevinB <kevinbertsch...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Interesting article in today's "National Post" (Canada). A recent
> study showed that men who drank caffeinated coffee before eating a low-
> carb breakfast cereal showed much higher spikes, and much longer
> lasting elevated levels, of blood glucose when compared to men who
> drank decaf coffee instead. I don't know if this is any way connected
> to the "morning effect", but it will be decaf for me in the mornings
> from now on!

An article, or study for that matter, wouldn't be enough to make me
change my habits. I'd have to test myself to see what's happening.

I eat very low carb breakfasts of 6g carb or less and then drink 1 cup
of strong regular coffee about an hour later when I get to work. I
even put about a quarter teaspoon of (gasp!) sugar in it. I've tested
this repeatedly and have never noticed a spike.

On days when I'm off work, I do this routine the other way around. I
usually have the coffee first and breakfast a bit later. Again, I've
tested this and haven't noticed any spikes.

John C.

"Chris Malcolm" <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:69iedtF31urdvU1@mid.individual.net...
> Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 May 2008 19:08:15 -0700 (PDT), KevinB
>> <kevinbertschglf@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>>>Interesting article in today's "National Post" (Canada). A recent
>>>study showed that men who drank caffeinated coffee before eating a low-
>>>carb breakfast cereal showed much higher spikes, and much longer
>>>lasting elevated levels, of blood glucose when compared to men who
>>>drank decaf coffee instead. I don't know if this is any way connected
>>>to the "morning effect", but it will be decaf for me in the mornings
>>>from now on!
>
>> Here is the abstract from
>> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/5/1254
>
>> This is the basic method:
>
>> "Ten healthy men underwent 4 trials in a randomized order.
>> They ingested caffeinated (5 mg/kg) coffee (CC) or the same
>> volume of decaffeinated coffee (DC) followed 1 h later by
>> either a high or low glycemic index (GI) cereal (providing
>> 75 g of carbohydrate) mixed meal tolerance test."
>
>> To me, the relevance of ten non-diabetics eating 75gms of
>> carb, with or without coffee, is tenuous at best to our
>> situation. Further, ten subjects is hardly more than a pilot
>> study to see if further research is warranted.
>
>> I'll await that further research; in the interim I'll
>> continue to sip my good strong java in moderation and eat
>> breakfast with less than 5gms carb and conduct my own tests
>> for the results.
>
> Thanks for looking that up. I'm not too concerned about whether my
> morning very strong coffee impairs my metabolism of around 4gms of
> carbohydrate. I'd be more interested in whether it impaired my
> response to larger amounts of carbohydrate later in the day. Another
> interesting question would be whether, if I didn't drink any
> caffeinated coffee, I'd actually be capable of following the planned
> experimental strategy and taking proper notes :-)
>
> I also note that the experimenters very likely used the kind of cheap
> stale coffee which is the kind most widely available. I discovered a
> long time ago that at least in my case, a number of the bad effects
> usually attributed to caffeine were in fact due to the oxidation
> byproducts that usually accompany caffeine ib cheap stale coffee. The
> symptoms which my doctor attributed to caffeine disappeared when I
> stop drinking cheap stale coffee and drank instead much stronger good
> fresh coffee.
>
>> Caffeinated coffee consumption impairs blood glucose
>> homeostasis in response to high and low glycemic index meals
>> in healthy men 1,2,3
>
>> Lesley L Moisey, Sita Kacker, Andrea C Bickerton, Lindsay E
>> Robinson and Terry E Graham
>
>> 1 From the Department of Human Health and Nutritional
>> Sciences, University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada
>
>> Background: The ingestion of caffeine (5 mg/kg body weight)
>> and a 75-g oral glucose load has been shown to elicit an
>> acute insulin-insensitive environment in healthy and obese
>> individuals and in those with type 2 diabetes.
>
>> Objective: In this study we investigated whether a similar
>> impairment in blood glucose management exists when coffee
>> and foods typical of a Western diet were used in a similar
>> protocol.
>
> What's more interesting is the background studies they mention.
>
>> Conclusion: The ingestion of CC with either a high or low GI
>> meal significantly impairs acute blood glucose management
>> and insulin sensitivity compared with ingestion of DC.
>> Future investigations are warranted to determine whether CC
>> is a risk factor for insulin resistance.
>
> I did a quick google rummage on the effects of coffee, and found
> rather more generally worrying indicators than I did last time I
> looked several years ago, e.g. effects on arterial stiffening and
> general inflammation. I also found people interested in selling coffee
> were the proud advertisers of some studies which they claimed showed
> that drinking coffee reduced insulin resistance.
>
> Hm. I've just refreshed my supply of coffee beans. I'm reluctant to
> give up yet another of life's small but important pleasures. That,
> however, is how I used to feel about cigarettes...
>
> Thanks for provoking me into taking another look at what may be my
> over-caffeinated complacency on this topic :-(
>
> --
> Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
> IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
> [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
>

However, coffee drinkers tend to have less cognitive decline and/or
Parkinson's than non-coffee drinkers. To me, nothing is free ride; you've
just got to pick your poison, so to speak.
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5

On 21 May 2008 11:13:01 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
wrote:

> Another
>interesting question would be whether, if I didn't drink any
>caffeinated coffee, I'd actually be capable of following the planned
>experimental strategy and taking proper notes :-)

Exactly - or of interacting with anyone with sufficient civility to
complete the study :P

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

On Wed, 21 May 2008 23:23:21 +0100, Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com>
wrote:

>On 21 May 2008 11:13:01 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
>wrote:
>
>> Another
>>interesting question would be whether, if I didn't drink any
>>caffeinated coffee, I'd actually be capable of following the planned
>>experimental strategy and taking proper notes :-)
>
>Exactly - or of interacting with anyone with sufficient civility to
>complete the study :P

Hehe, I resemble that remark

Michelle C <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote:
> "Chris Malcolm" <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:69iedtF31urdvU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 20 May 2008 19:08:15 -0700 (PDT), KevinB
>>> <kevinbertschglf@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>>>>Interesting article in today's "National Post" (Canada). A recent
>>>>study showed that men who drank caffeinated coffee before eating a low-
>>>>carb breakfast cereal showed much higher spikes, and much longer
>>>>lasting elevated levels, of blood glucose when compared to men who
>>>>drank decaf coffee instead. I don't know if this is any way connected
>>>>to the "morning effect", but it will be decaf for me in the mornings
>>>>from now on!

>>> Here is the abstract from
>>> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/5/1254
>>
>>> This is the basic method:
>>
>>> "Ten healthy men underwent 4 trials in a randomized order.
>>> They ingested caffeinated (5 mg/kg) coffee (CC) or the same
>>> volume of decaffeinated coffee (DC) followed 1 h later by
>>> either a high or low glycemic index (GI) cereal (providing
>>> 75 g of carbohydrate) mixed meal tolerance test."
>>
>>> To me, the relevance of ten non-diabetics eating 75gms of
>>> carb, with or without coffee, is tenuous at best to our
>>> situation. Further, ten subjects is hardly more than a pilot
>>> study to see if further research is warranted.
>>
>>> I'll await that further research; in the interim I'll
>>> continue to sip my good strong java in moderation and eat
>>> breakfast with less than 5gms carb and conduct my own tests
>>> for the results.

>> Thanks for looking that up. I'm not too concerned about whether my
>> morning very strong coffee impairs my metabolism of around 4gms of
>> carbohydrate. I'd be more interested in whether it impaired my
>> response to larger amounts of carbohydrate later in the day. Another
>> interesting question would be whether, if I didn't drink any
>> caffeinated coffee, I'd actually be capable of following the planned
>> experimental strategy and taking proper notes :-)

>> I did a quick google rummage on the effects of coffee, and found
>> rather more generally worrying indicators than I did last time I
>> looked several years ago, e.g. effects on arterial stiffening and
>> general inflammation. I also found people interested in selling coffee
>> were the proud advertisers of some studies which they claimed showed
>> that drinking coffee reduced insulin resistance.
>>
>> Hm. I've just refreshed my supply of coffee beans. I'm reluctant to
>> give up yet another of life's small but important pleasures. That,
>> however, is how I used to feel about cigarettes...
>>
>> Thanks for provoking me into taking another look at what may be my
>> over-caffeinated complacency on this topic :-(

> However, coffee drinkers tend to have less cognitive decline and/or
> Parkinson's than non-coffee drinkers. To me, nothing is free ride; you've
> just got to pick your poison, so to speak.

Exactly. No mater how many skirmishes with death we've won we're We're
all going to lose the last battle for life. Once you get to a certain
age health becomes less about avoiding premature death than simply
choosing which of the approaching gang of thugs is going to be the one
which actually kills you. Is it going to be a heart attack? Dementia?
Stroke? Poisoning myself with the results of my own confused cooking?
Crossing the road while under the influence of a mobile phone?

These days I get more fun out of my brain than any other organ, so
keeping my brain healthy outranks other body parts :-)

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

"Chris Malcolm" <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:69np3jF33bk5sU1@mid.individual.net...
> Michelle C <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote:
>> "Chris Malcolm" <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
>> news:69iedtF31urdvU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 20 May 2008 19:08:15 -0700 (PDT), KevinB
>>>> <kevinbertschglf@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>>>>>Interesting article in today's "National Post" (Canada). A recent
>>>>>study showed that men who drank caffeinated coffee before eating a low-
>>>>>carb breakfast cereal showed much higher spikes, and much longer
>>>>>lasting elevated levels, of blood glucose when compared to men who
>>>>>drank decaf coffee instead. I don't know if this is any way connected
>>>>>to the "morning effect", but it will be decaf for me in the mornings
>>>>>from now on!
>
>>>> Here is the abstract from
>>>> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/5/1254
>>>
>>>> This is the basic method:
>>>
>>>> "Ten healthy men underwent 4 trials in a randomized order.
>>>> They ingested caffeinated (5 mg/kg) coffee (CC) or the same
>>>> volume of decaffeinated coffee (DC) followed 1 h later by
>>>> either a high or low glycemic index (GI) cereal (providing
>>>> 75 g of carbohydrate) mixed meal tolerance test."
>>>
>>>> To me, the relevance of ten non-diabetics eating 75gms of
>>>> carb, with or without coffee, is tenuous at best to our
>>>> situation. Further, ten subjects is hardly more than a pilot
>>>> study to see if further research is warranted.
>>>
>>>> I'll await that further research; in the interim I'll
>>>> continue to sip my good strong java in moderation and eat
>>>> breakfast with less than 5gms carb and conduct my own tests
>>>> for the results.
>
>>> Thanks for looking that up. I'm not too concerned about whether my
>>> morning very strong coffee impairs my metabolism of around 4gms of
>>> carbohydrate. I'd be more interested in whether it impaired my
>>> response to larger amounts of carbohydrate later in the day. Another
>>> interesting question would be whether, if I didn't drink any
>>> caffeinated coffee, I'd actually be capable of following the planned
>>> experimental strategy and taking proper notes :-)
>
>>> I did a quick google rummage on the effects of coffee, and found
>>> rather more generally worrying indicators than I did last time I
>>> looked several years ago, e.g. effects on arterial stiffening and
>>> general inflammation. I also found people interested in selling coffee
>>> were the proud advertisers of some studies which they claimed showed
>>> that drinking coffee reduced insulin resistance.
>>>
>>> Hm. I've just refreshed my supply of coffee beans. I'm reluctant to
>>> give up yet another of life's small but important pleasures. That,
>>> however, is how I used to feel about cigarettes...
>>>
>>> Thanks for provoking me into taking another look at what may be my
>>> over-caffeinated complacency on this topic :-(
>
>> However, coffee drinkers tend to have less cognitive decline and/or
>> Parkinson's than non-coffee drinkers. To me, nothing is free ride;
>> you've
>> just got to pick your poison, so to speak.
>
> Exactly. No mater how many skirmishes with death we've won we're We're
> all going to lose the last battle for life. Once you get to a certain
> age health becomes less about avoiding premature death than simply
> choosing which of the approaching gang of thugs is going to be the one
> which actually kills you. Is it going to be a heart attack? Dementia?
> Stroke? Poisoning myself with the results of my own confused cooking?
> Crossing the road while under the influence of a mobile phone?
>
> These days I get more fun out of my brain than any other organ, so
> keeping my brain healthy outranks other body parts :-)
>

Agreed!
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5

P.S. I especially enjoyed: "Crossing the road while under the influence of
a mobile phone." ;-)