Gaaaaaaah! Incompetent medical people!

I am sooo steamed right now. BG still out of control, although it does seem
to have come down a bit. At least it's not in the 400's. The nurse told me
to call her back today. And guess what? She's on vacation for a week! She
was out for a week a few weeks ago as well. She made NO effort to get back
to me at all. Didn't return MY calls. My Dr. has not returned a call
either.

The receptionist said she would have the other nurse call me back when he
comes in, whenever that will be. He will probably tell me the same thing.
Increase by 2 units every 3-4 days. At this rate, it will take me next to
forever to get in control, if I ever will on this Lantus. Grrr...

Julie Bove wrote:
> I am sooo steamed right now. BG still out of control, although it does seem
> to have come down a bit. At least it's not in the 400's. The nurse told me
> to call her back today. And guess what? She's on vacation for a week! She
> was out for a week a few weeks ago as well. She made NO effort to get back
> to me at all. Didn't return MY calls. My Dr. has not returned a call
> either.
>
> The receptionist said she would have the other nurse call me back when he
> comes in, whenever that will be. He will probably tell me the same thing.
> Increase by 2 units every 3-4 days. At this rate, it will take me next to
> forever to get in control, if I ever will on this Lantus. Grrr...
>
Any doctor who controls a diabetes's insulin should not be seeing diabetics!!

also using Lants to control BG is idiotic. MOST people need a
combination of long acting and fast acting
\
I have adjusted my own insulin for many years

For Lantus, the worry is the LOW point. If your low is under 100, you
have enough Lantus. If your pre prandial, or 2 hour post are over 100,
you need fast acting, usually about 1 unit for every 4 points of BG.
That is for T2's T1's are quite different.

If your low is over 100, try increasing your Lantus 1 for 4. If you use
fast acting, try 1 for 19 initially and slowly increase it as necessary,
with a 1 for 4 as a most probable,

Your low from fast ACTING is in 2 to 5 hours after taking it (food
within first hour)

"ted rosenberg" <tedrosenberg@iname.com> wrote in message
news:fvvcsa$flb$1@aioe.org...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>> I am sooo steamed right now. BG still out of control, although it does
>> seem to have come down a bit. At least it's not in the 400's. The nurse
>> told me to call her back today. And guess what? She's on vacation for a
>> week! She was out for a week a few weeks ago as well. She made NO
>> effort to get back to me at all. Didn't return MY calls. My Dr. has not
>> returned a call either.
>>
>> The receptionist said she would have the other nurse call me back when he
>> comes in, whenever that will be. He will probably tell me the same
>> thing. Increase by 2 units every 3-4 days. At this rate, it will take me
>> next to forever to get in control, if I ever will on this Lantus.
>> Grrr...
> Any doctor who controls a diabetes's insulin should not be seeing
> diabetics!!

He isn't even doing that. He had the nurse doing it and she didn't seem to
know what to do.
>
> also using Lants to control BG is idiotic. MOST people need a combination
> of long acting and fast acting

So I've been told.
> \
> I have adjusted my own insulin for many years
>
> For Lantus, the worry is the LOW point. If your low is under 100, you
> have enough Lantus. If your pre prandial, or 2 hour post are over 100,
> you need fast acting, usually about 1 unit for every 4 points of BG. That
> is for T2's T1's are quite different.

Well, I just tested at 109 before lunch.
>
> If your low is over 100, try increasing your Lantus 1 for 4. If you use
> fast acting, try 1 for 19 initially and slowly increase it as necessary,
> with a 1 for 4 as a most probable,
> Your low from fast ACTING is in 2 to 5 hours after taking it (food within
> first hour)

I got two calls from the other nurse. He seems to know what to do. The
second call was to tell me that the Fax from the Dr. DID come in but was
apparently misplaced. So I don't know who the incompetent one is here.

He told me to increase the Lantus by 8 units until we get to 60 and if it's
still not good, we have a number of options to do from there.

I kept increasing my Lantus, on my doc's advice, and when I hit 140u/day my
Blood Glucose leveled off and has stayed there. My doc says he has one
patient on almost 800u/day.

Dick

On Thu, 8 May 2008 15:50:48 -0500, <rjrobbins1936@att.net> wrote:

>I kept increasing my Lantus, on my doc's advice, and when I hit 140u/day my
>Blood Glucose leveled off and has stayed there. My doc says he has one
>patient on almost 800u/day.
>
>Dick
>
We need more discussion of the dosage of all diabetics.

What i think i see is to many dogmatic statements the
does not consider individuals.

The production line specialists try to put label on
people with almost no testing. It is fast but does
a few great harm.

I had to learn some of the basics and do my own tests.

Reason I push this idea.

Again MHD


----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

<rjrobbins1936@att.net> wrote in message
news:CIJUj.605$8i5.317@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
>I kept increasing my Lantus, on my doc's advice, and when I hit 140u/day my
> Blood Glucose leveled off and has stayed there. My doc says he has one
> patient on almost 800u/day.

Wow. Do you use the pens?

"Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:03JUj.2261$Kf.832@trndny07...
>
> "ted rosenberg" <tedrosenberg@iname.com> wrote in message
> news:fvvcsa$flb$1@aioe.org...
>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>> I am sooo steamed right now. BG still out of control, although it does
>>> seem to have come down a bit. At least it's not in the 400's. The
>>> nurse told me to call her back today. And guess what? She's on
>>> vacation for a week! She was out for a week a few weeks ago as well.
>>> She made NO effort to get back to me at all. Didn't return MY calls.
>>> My Dr. has not returned a call either.
>>>
>>> The receptionist said she would have the other nurse call me back when
>>> he comes in, whenever that will be. He will probably tell me the same
>>> thing. Increase by 2 units every 3-4 days. At this rate, it will take
>>> me next to forever to get in control, if I ever will on this Lantus.
>>> Grrr...
>> Any doctor who controls a diabetes's insulin should not be seeing
>> diabetics!!
>
> He isn't even doing that. He had the nurse doing it and she didn't seem
> to know what to do.
>>
>> also using Lants to control BG is idiotic. MOST people need a
>> combination of long acting and fast acting
>
> So I've been told.
>> \
>> I have adjusted my own insulin for many years
>>
>> For Lantus, the worry is the LOW point. If your low is under 100, you
>> have enough Lantus. If your pre prandial, or 2 hour post are over 100,
>> you need fast acting, usually about 1 unit for every 4 points of BG.
>> That is for T2's T1's are quite different.
>
> Well, I just tested at 109 before lunch.
>>
>> If your low is over 100, try increasing your Lantus 1 for 4. If you use
>> fast acting, try 1 for 19 initially and slowly increase it as necessary,
>> with a 1 for 4 as a most probable,
>> Your low from fast ACTING is in 2 to 5 hours after taking it (food within
>> first hour)
>
> I got two calls from the other nurse. He seems to know what to do. The
> second call was to tell me that the Fax from the Dr. DID come in but was
> apparently misplaced. So I don't know who the incompetent one is here.
>
> He told me to increase the Lantus by 8 units until we get to 60 and if
> it's still not good, we have a number of options to do from there.


I wouldn't be going that far at all with the Lantus. I would be buying my
own fast acting insulin and getting ideas from people here, but that's just
me. I wouldn't have tolerated such wicked numbers for so long. You could
start out with small amounts, type 2's mostly don't have that sensitivity to
injected insulin like type 1's so the chances of a hypo by starting with low
doses and working up would be minimal.

"Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
news:68hcqaF2tghs4U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:03JUj.2261$Kf.832@trndny07...
>>
>> "ted rosenberg" <tedrosenberg@iname.com> wrote in message
>> news:fvvcsa$flb$1@aioe.org...
>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> I am sooo steamed right now. BG still out of control, although it does
>>>> seem to have come down a bit. At least it's not in the 400's. The
>>>> nurse told me to call her back today. And guess what? She's on
>>>> vacation for a week! She was out for a week a few weeks ago as well.
>>>> She made NO effort to get back to me at all. Didn't return MY calls.
>>>> My Dr. has not returned a call either.
>>>>
>>>> The receptionist said she would have the other nurse call me back when
>>>> he comes in, whenever that will be. He will probably tell me the same
>>>> thing. Increase by 2 units every 3-4 days. At this rate, it will take
>>>> me next to forever to get in control, if I ever will on this Lantus.
>>>> Grrr...
>>> Any doctor who controls a diabetes's insulin should not be seeing
>>> diabetics!!
>>
>> He isn't even doing that. He had the nurse doing it and she didn't seem
>> to know what to do.
>>>
>>> also using Lants to control BG is idiotic. MOST people need a
>>> combination of long acting and fast acting
>>
>> So I've been told.
>>> \
>>> I have adjusted my own insulin for many years
>>>
>>> For Lantus, the worry is the LOW point. If your low is under 100, you
>>> have enough Lantus. If your pre prandial, or 2 hour post are over 100,
>>> you need fast acting, usually about 1 unit for every 4 points of BG.
>>> That is for T2's T1's are quite different.
>>
>> Well, I just tested at 109 before lunch.
>>>
>>> If your low is over 100, try increasing your Lantus 1 for 4. If you use
>>> fast acting, try 1 for 19 initially and slowly increase it as necessary,
>>> with a 1 for 4 as a most probable,
>>> Your low from fast ACTING is in 2 to 5 hours after taking it (food
>>> within first hour)
>>
>> I got two calls from the other nurse. He seems to know what to do. The
>> second call was to tell me that the Fax from the Dr. DID come in but was
>> apparently misplaced. So I don't know who the incompetent one is here.
>>
>> He told me to increase the Lantus by 8 units until we get to 60 and if
>> it's still not good, we have a number of options to do from there.
>
>
> I wouldn't be going that far at all with the Lantus. I would be buying my
> own fast acting insulin and getting ideas from people here, but that's
> just me. I wouldn't have tolerated such wicked numbers for so long. You
> could start out with small amounts, type 2's mostly don't have that
> sensitivity to injected insulin like type 1's so the chances of a hypo by
> starting with low doses and working up would be minimal.

Well, I'm not paying out of pocket for something I can get covered by
insurance. And from what I know about insulin, it doesn't seem that a fast
acting one is warranted. Fast acting is just for after meals. Right? I am
not increasing after meals, but most of the time, decreasing.

Do you also take a fast acting? Julie doesn't. I wish she could find a
sensible doctor.

<rjrobbins1936@att.net> wrote in message
news:CIJUj.605$8i5.317@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
>I kept increasing my Lantus, on my doc's advice, and when I hit 140u/day my
> Blood Glucose leveled off and has stayed there. My doc says he has one
> patient on almost 800u/day.
>
> Dick
>
>

"Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:X7LUj.300$Nf.42@trndny03...
>
> "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
> news:68hcqaF2tghs4U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:03JUj.2261$Kf.832@trndny07...
>>>
>>> "ted rosenberg" <tedrosenberg@iname.com> wrote in message
>>> news:fvvcsa$flb$1@aioe.org...
>>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>> I am sooo steamed right now. BG still out of control, although it
>>>>> does seem to have come down a bit. At least it's not in the 400's.
>>>>> The nurse told me to call her back today. And guess what? She's on
>>>>> vacation for a week! She was out for a week a few weeks ago as well.
>>>>> She made NO effort to get back to me at all. Didn't return MY calls.
>>>>> My Dr. has not returned a call either.
>>>>>
>>>>> The receptionist said she would have the other nurse call me back when
>>>>> he comes in, whenever that will be. He will probably tell me the same
>>>>> thing. Increase by 2 units every 3-4 days. At this rate, it will take
>>>>> me next to forever to get in control, if I ever will on this Lantus.
>>>>> Grrr...
>>>> Any doctor who controls a diabetes's insulin should not be seeing
>>>> diabetics!!
>>>
>>> He isn't even doing that. He had the nurse doing it and she didn't seem
>>> to know what to do.
>>>>
>>>> also using Lants to control BG is idiotic. MOST people need a
>>>> combination of long acting and fast acting
>>>
>>> So I've been told.
>>>> \
>>>> I have adjusted my own insulin for many years
>>>>
>>>> For Lantus, the worry is the LOW point. If your low is under 100, you
>>>> have enough Lantus. If your pre prandial, or 2 hour post are over 100,
>>>> you need fast acting, usually about 1 unit for every 4 points of BG.
>>>> That is for T2's T1's are quite different.
>>>
>>> Well, I just tested at 109 before lunch.
>>>>
>>>> If your low is over 100, try increasing your Lantus 1 for 4. If you
>>>> use fast acting, try 1 for 19 initially and slowly increase it as
>>>> necessary, with a 1 for 4 as a most probable,
>>>> Your low from fast ACTING is in 2 to 5 hours after taking it (food
>>>> within first hour)
>>>
>>> I got two calls from the other nurse. He seems to know what to do. The
>>> second call was to tell me that the Fax from the Dr. DID come in but was
>>> apparently misplaced. So I don't know who the incompetent one is here.
>>>
>>> He told me to increase the Lantus by 8 units until we get to 60 and if
>>> it's still not good, we have a number of options to do from there.
>>
>>
>> I wouldn't be going that far at all with the Lantus. I would be buying my
>> own fast acting insulin and getting ideas from people here, but that's
>> just me. I wouldn't have tolerated such wicked numbers for so long. You
>> could start out with small amounts, type 2's mostly don't have that
>> sensitivity to injected insulin like type 1's so the chances of a hypo by
>> starting with low doses and working up would be minimal.
>
> Well, I'm not paying out of pocket for something I can get covered by
> insurance. And from what I know about insulin, it doesn't seem that a
> fast acting one is warranted. Fast acting is just for after meals.
> Right? I am not increasing after meals, but most of the time, decreasing.

But you are saying your bg's are out of control, define out of control.

"Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
news:68he56F2qpb3pU1@mid.individual.net...


>
> But you are saying your bg's are out of control, define out of control.

I was 109 before lunch. That's fine. Woke up to 229. So somehow between
then and after breakfast, the numbers came down. The nurse has me testing
only before meals and at the time I take my insulin. BG has been pretty
steady after meals or has come down. It does not go up after eating.
Yesterday my numbers varied from 361 in the morning (highest number) to 213
at night. They came down as the day wore on.

Now another thing is possible as the second nurse pointed out. I have been
sick with some sort of virus. I still don't feel totally back to normal,
although with high BG, it is hard to distinguish the culprit. The killer
leg cramps I was having have subsided. I no longer feel like I'm going to
puke and the headache is gone, but I still feel tired and weak. It is
possible that the virus raised my BG in spite of the insulin and that had I
not been ill, my numbers would have been lower.

Julie Bove wrote:
> "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
> news:68he56F2qpb3pU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
>> But you are saying your bg's are out of control, define out of control.
>>
>
> I was 109 before lunch. That's fine. Woke up to 229. So somehow between
> then and after breakfast, the numbers came down. The nurse has me testing
> only before meals and at the time I take my insulin. BG has been pretty
> steady after meals or has come down. It does not go up after eating.
> Yesterday my numbers varied from 361 in the morning (highest number) to 213
> at night. They came down as the day wore on.
>
> Now another thing is possible as the second nurse pointed out. I have been
> sick with some sort of virus. I still don't feel totally back to normal,
> although with high BG, it is hard to distinguish the culprit. The killer
> leg cramps I was having have subsided. I no longer feel like I'm going to
> puke and the headache is gone, but I still feel tired and weak. It is
> possible that the virus raised my BG in spite of the insulin and that had I
> not been ill, my numbers would have been lower.
>
>

Well, a virus rarely effects, but an infection does
also, Dawn phenom like that is not uncomon. Lente was great for that
cause you took it at bedtime and t peaked in the morning. Lantus is
almost worthless because it is so flat.

You could try getting up at 5 AM and taking a fast acting shot

"ted rosenberg" <tedrosenberg@iname.com> wrote in message
news:g00176$8ma$1@aioe.org...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
>> news:68he56F2qpb3pU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>
>>
>>> But you are saying your bg's are out of control, define out of control.
>>>
>>
>> I was 109 before lunch. That's fine. Woke up to 229. So somehow
>> between then and after breakfast, the numbers came down. The nurse has
>> me testing only before meals and at the time I take my insulin. BG has
>> been pretty steady after meals or has come down. It does not go up after
>> eating. Yesterday my numbers varied from 361 in the morning (highest
>> number) to 213 at night. They came down as the day wore on.
>>
>> Now another thing is possible as the second nurse pointed out. I have
>> been sick with some sort of virus. I still don't feel totally back to
>> normal, although with high BG, it is hard to distinguish the culprit.
>> The killer leg cramps I was having have subsided. I no longer feel like
>> I'm going to puke and the headache is gone, but I still feel tired and
>> weak. It is possible that the virus raised my BG in spite of the insulin
>> and that had I not been ill, my numbers would have been lower.
>>
>
> Well, a virus rarely effects, but an infection does
> also, Dawn phenom like that is not uncomon. Lente was great for that
> cause you took it at bedtime and t peaked in the morning. Lantus is
> almost worthless because it is so flat.
>
> You could try getting up at 5 AM and taking a fast acting shot

Dr. just called me back and told me something slightly different. Told me
to increase to 34 units, then go up from there. Said I should be on an even
amount. Which would make it a lot easier to dial in on the pen. He doesn't
feel further testing is warranted just yet. And I think I will be able to
see that other nurse next time.

"Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:2xLUj.3132$Hh.1584@trndny01...
>
> "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
> news:68he56F2qpb3pU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>>
>> But you are saying your bg's are out of control, define out of control.
>
> I was 109 before lunch. That's fine. Woke up to 229. So somehow between
> then and after breakfast, the numbers came down. The nurse has me testing
> only before meals and at the time I take my insulin.

Why are you following such an archaic tesdting regimen when you know from
reading here that bg's need to be tested more rather than less with insulin.
If you are not testing after meals you have no idea how high you are going.
It may be taking you 6 hours to get near normal after a meal. So six hours
of unacceptable number. You already have a number of diabetic complications,
I can't see why you would be consciously or unconsciously wishing more
complications upon yourself.

Plus how do you know that the Lantus isn't dropping you overnight and
causing a large rise on waking. I have heard of people on Lantus have
overnight lows, which I don't beleive are supposed to happen. Try waking in
the early hours and testing to see if anything unusual is happening then and
go back to testing after meals regardless of what a nurse says. A nurse is a
nurse, period.

BG has been pretty
> steady after meals or has come down. It does not go up after eating.
> Yesterday my numbers varied from 361 in the morning (highest number) to
> 213 at night. They came down as the day wore on.
>
> Now another thing is possible as the second nurse pointed out. I have
> been sick with some sort of virus. I still don't feel totally back to
> normal, although with high BG, it is hard to distinguish the culprit. The
> killer leg cramps I was having have subsided. I no longer feel like I'm
> going to puke and the headache is gone, but I still feel tired and weak.
> It is possible that the virus raised my BG in spite of the insulin and
> that had I not been ill, my numbers would have been lower.
>

"Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
news:68hg95F2q0b09U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:2xLUj.3132$Hh.1584@trndny01...
>>
>> "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
>> news:68he56F2qpb3pU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>
>>>
>>> But you are saying your bg's are out of control, define out of control.
>>
>> I was 109 before lunch. That's fine. Woke up to 229. So somehow
>> between then and after breakfast, the numbers came down. The nurse has
>> me testing only before meals and at the time I take my insulin.
>
> Why are you following such an archaic tesdting regimen when you know from
> reading here that bg's need to be tested more rather than less with
> insulin. If you are not testing after meals you have no idea how high you
> are going. It may be taking you 6 hours to get near normal after a meal.
> So six hours of unacceptable number. You already have a number of diabetic
> complications, I can't see why you would be consciously or unconsciously
> wishing more complications upon yourself.

I was testing more and there seemed no point to it. The numbers were either
not changing or going down slightly. I am still testing more than I was
before. And really... What's the point in testing if I can't DO anything
about it?
>
> Plus how do you know that the Lantus isn't dropping you overnight and
> causing a large rise on waking. I have heard of people on Lantus have
> overnight lows, which I don't beleive are supposed to happen. Try waking
> in the early hours and testing to see if anything unusual is happening
> then and go back to testing after meals regardless of what a nurse says. A
> nurse is a nurse, period.

Because I was testing throughout the night and the numbers were not
changing. I am normally up till 2:00 a.m. or so. I was testing every two
hours. The only time when more than 2 hours elapsed between tests was then
and about 7:00 a.m. when I got up in the morning. The nurse (first one)
mentioned putting me on a continuos monitor. But with such steady numbers,
that didn't make sense.
>
> BG has been pretty
>> steady after meals or has come down. It does not go up after eating.
>> Yesterday my numbers varied from 361 in the morning (highest number) to
>> 213 at night. They came down as the day wore on.
>>
>> Now another thing is possible as the second nurse pointed out. I have
>> been sick with some sort of virus. I still don't feel totally back to
>> normal, although with high BG, it is hard to distinguish the culprit.
>> The killer leg cramps I was having have subsided. I no longer feel like
>> I'm going to puke and the headache is gone, but I still feel tired and
>> weak. It is possible that the virus raised my BG in spite of the insulin
>> and that had I not been ill, my numbers would have been lower.
>>
>
>

Julie Bove wrote:
> I am sooo steamed right now. BG still out of control, although it does seem
> to have come down a bit. At least it's not in the 400's. The nurse told me
> to call her back today. And guess what? She's on vacation for a week! She
> was out for a week a few weeks ago as well. She made NO effort to get back
> to me at all. Didn't return MY calls. My Dr. has not returned a call
> either.
>
> The receptionist said she would have the other nurse call me back when he
> comes in, whenever that will be. He will probably tell me the same thing.
> Increase by 2 units every 3-4 days. At this rate, it will take me next to
> forever to get in control, if I ever will on this Lantus. Grrr...
>
>
what's your point Julie?

adjusting the insulin by 2 units every 3-4 days IS the protocol to
adjusting your insulin

it takes a type 1 about 3 months to get 'close' to their insulin dose,
and they have to adjust TWO insulins to get there

what do you want to hear? X is the 'right' amount of insulin? because
that simply can't happen............. trial and error is how you adjust
insulin

good luck

--
kate
type 1 since 1987
www.diabetic-talk.org

convicted neighbor Julie Bove wrote:
>
> I am sooo steamed right now. BG still out of control, although it does seem
> to have come down a bit. At least it's not in the 400's. The nurse told me
> to call her back today. And guess what? She's on vacation for a week! She
> was out for a week a few weeks ago as well. She made NO effort to get back
> to me at all. Didn't return MY calls. My Dr. has not returned a call
> either.
>
> The receptionist said she would have the other nurse call me back when he
> comes in, whenever that will be. He will probably tell me the same thing.
> Increase by 2 units every 3-4 days. At this rate, it will take me next to
> forever to get in control, if I ever will on this Lantus. Grrr...

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForJulie

<><

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Love

"Tiger_Lily" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:68hmp7F2t6reoU2@mid.individual.net...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>> I am sooo steamed right now. BG still out of control, although it does
>> seem to have come down a bit. At least it's not in the 400's. The nurse
>> told me to call her back today. And guess what? She's on vacation for a
>> week! She was out for a week a few weeks ago as well. She made NO
>> effort to get back to me at all. Didn't return MY calls. My Dr. has not
>> returned a call either.
>>
>> The receptionist said she would have the other nurse call me back when he
>> comes in, whenever that will be. He will probably tell me the same
>> thing. Increase by 2 units every 3-4 days. At this rate, it will take me
>> next to forever to get in control, if I ever will on this Lantus.
>> Grrr...
> what's your point Julie?
>
> adjusting the insulin by 2 units every 3-4 days IS the protocol to
> adjusting your insulin

Not when one's BG is in the 400's, and I have seen other protocols. The Dr.
and the other nurse said this is wrong. Should be 8 units. Also I think it
is irresponsible to tell me to call back when she is on vacation and can't
be reached, and not to follow up on the Fax that she said she never got but
I now know she did.
>
> it takes a type 1 about 3 months to get 'close' to their insulin dose, and
> they have to adjust TWO insulins to get there

I could understand with someone newly diagnosed. But it is frustrating for
someone who had, had control and now does not.
>
> what do you want to hear? X is the 'right' amount of insulin? because that
> simply can't happen............. trial and error is how you adjust insulin

Well, no. But it isn't right to keep me running in the 400's when I am
getting dehydrated and sick from it.
>
> good luck

The Dr. said to up it to 34 units tonight, then wait 3 days and up it
another 8 points from there. That makes more sense since there is obviously
no chance of my going hypo at the rate I am going.

"Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
> > "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >> "ted rosenberg" <tedrosenberg@iname.com> wrote in message
> >>> Julie Bove wrote:
> >>>> [ . . . ]
> Well, I'm not paying out of pocket for something I can get covered by
> insurance. []

Reminds me of an old Jack Benny skit. Armed robber comes up to Jack and
says, "Your money or your life!" Jack assumes his signature hand-on-chin
stance and stands there, brow wrinkled. Gunman reiterates, "I said, your
money or your life!" Jack looks up and replies, "Wait! I'm thinking!"

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~

"Nick Cramer" <n_cramerSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:20080508234504.861$ZH@newsreader.com...
> "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:
>> "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
>> > "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> >> "ted rosenberg" <tedrosenberg@iname.com> wrote in message
>> >>> Julie Bove wrote:
>> >>>> [ . . . ]
>> Well, I'm not paying out of pocket for something I can get covered by
>> insurance. []
>
> Reminds me of an old Jack Benny skit. Armed robber comes up to Jack and
> says, "Your money or your life!" Jack assumes his signature hand-on-chin
> stance and stands there, brow wrinkled. Gunman reiterates, "I said, your
> money or your life!" Jack looks up and replies, "Wait! I'm thinking!"

Yep.

On Fri, 09 May 2008 03:45:51 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net>
wrote:

>
>"Nick Cramer" <n_cramerSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>news:20080508234504.861$ZH@newsreader.com...
>> "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
>>> > "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>> >> "ted rosenberg" <tedrosenberg@iname.com> wrote in message
>>> >>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>> >>>> [ . . . ]
>>> Well, I'm not paying out of pocket for something I can get covered by
>>> insurance. []
>>
>> Reminds me of an old Jack Benny skit. Armed robber comes up to Jack and
>> says, "Your money or your life!" Jack assumes his signature hand-on-chin
>> stance and stands there, brow wrinkled. Gunman reiterates, "I said, your
>> money or your life!" Jack looks up and replies, "Wait! I'm thinking!"
>
>Yep.
>
We have from until after the election to get something done about
health care. Then,"who are you". We will see needs in all areas
and why worry about sick people. They are not productive.

The great days of health insurance are about over. We ate the golden
goose

Watch and see the discussions about the cost and the ways to deal with
it. Pay or do not call. Payment due at time of service.

The pointer will say go to emergency, Then the emergency will have a
sign saying closed due to lack of funds. The docs office will say
"gone on vacation".

..


----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

On Thu, 08 May 2008 23:16:07 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net>
wrote:

>Dr. just called me back and told me something slightly different. Told me
>to increase to 34 units, then go up from there. Said I should be on an even
>amount. Which would make it a lot easier to dial in on the pen. He doesn't
>feel further testing is warranted just yet. And I think I will be able to
>see that other nurse next time.
>

Well, that's something, anyway - Nurse #1 sounds a complete idiot.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:kqf8249t0lk4uj2r197jjfjp5b7jef7vve@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 08 May 2008 23:16:07 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Dr. just called me back and told me something slightly different. Told me
>>to increase to 34 units, then go up from there. Said I should be on an
>>even
>>amount. Which would make it a lot easier to dial in on the pen. He
>>doesn't
>>feel further testing is warranted just yet. And I think I will be able to
>>see that other nurse next time.
>>
>
> Well, that's something, anyway - Nurse #1 sounds a complete idiot.

That's what I thought. Had I followed this protocol, I would already be to
this point. Woke to 136 this morning and this is where the first nurse
told me to be. Said I needed to be <150. So I hope this is not a fluke and
this continues.

Julie Bove wrote:
> "Tiger_Lily" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:68hmp7F2t6reoU2@mid.individual.net...
>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>> I am sooo steamed right now. BG still out of control, although it does
>>> seem to have come down a bit. At least it's not in the 400's. The nurse
>>> told me to call her back today. And guess what? She's on vacation for a
>>> week! She was out for a week a few weeks ago as well. She made NO
>>> effort to get back to me at all. Didn't return MY calls. My Dr. has not
>>> returned a call either.
>>>
>>> The receptionist said she would have the other nurse call me back when he
>>> comes in, whenever that will be. He will probably tell me the same
>>> thing. Increase by 2 units every 3-4 days. At this rate, it will take me
>>> next to forever to get in control, if I ever will on this Lantus.
>>> Grrr...
>> what's your point Julie?
>>
>> adjusting the insulin by 2 units every 3-4 days IS the protocol to
>> adjusting your insulin
>
> Not when one's BG is in the 400's, and I have seen other protocols. The Dr.
> and the other nurse said this is wrong. Should be 8 units. Also I think it
> is irresponsible to tell me to call back when she is on vacation and can't
> be reached, and not to follow up on the Fax that she said she never got but
> I now know she did.

i commented on how insulin is titrated, and you are discussing whether
or not the nurse called you back.................... ok..........

>> it takes a type 1 about 3 months to get 'close' to their insulin dose, and
>> they have to adjust TWO insulins to get there
>
> I could understand with someone newly diagnosed. But it is frustrating for
> someone who had, had control and now does not.

so? do you think that other type 2's going onto insulin don't have the
same adjustment period? are you trying to say there should be 'your
right insulin dose' guessed out of thin air so that you have instant
control again?

guess what?..... once you have your bg under control again, and just
think everything is going smoothly, you are going to have to adjust your
insulin again.......... welcome to using insulin

>> what do you want to hear? X is the 'right' amount of insulin? because that
>> simply can't happen............. trial and error is how you adjust insulin
>
> Well, no. But it isn't right to keep me running in the 400's when I am
> getting dehydrated and sick from it.
>> good luck
>
> The Dr. said to up it to 34 units tonight, then wait 3 days and up it
> another 8 points from there. That makes more sense since there is obviously
> no chance of my going hypo at the rate I am going.

ok, the Dr found out that 2 units of insuln isn't going to affect you
quickly as it does A LOT OF TYPE 2's WHO JUST GO ONTO insulin, i know a
lot of type 2 diabetics who take 10 units of Lantus at bedtime and that
is ALL they need to control their bg levels........... and THEY started
out at 400 when they were put on insulin

your expectations of the Dr are unreasonable, in all honesty

"Tiger_Lily" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:68j9ncF2sapkrU1@mid.individual.net...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Tiger_Lily" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:68hmp7F2t6reoU2@mid.individual.net...
>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> I am sooo steamed right now. BG still out of control, although it does
>>>> seem to have come down a bit. At least it's not in the 400's. The
>>>> nurse told me to call her back today. And guess what? She's on
>>>> vacation for a week! She was out for a week a few weeks ago as well.
>>>> She made NO effort to get back to me at all. Didn't return MY calls.
>>>> My Dr. has not returned a call either.
>>>>
>>>> The receptionist said she would have the other nurse call me back when
>>>> he comes in, whenever that will be. He will probably tell me the same
>>>> thing. Increase by 2 units every 3-4 days. At this rate, it will take
>>>> me next to forever to get in control, if I ever will on this Lantus.
>>>> Grrr...
>>> what's your point Julie?
>>>
>>> adjusting the insulin by 2 units every 3-4 days IS the protocol to
>>> adjusting your insulin
>>
>> Not when one's BG is in the 400's, and I have seen other protocols. The
>> Dr. and the other nurse said this is wrong. Should be 8 units. Also I
>> think it is irresponsible to tell me to call back when she is on vacation
>> and can't be reached, and not to follow up on the Fax that she said she
>> never got but I now know she did.
>
> i commented on how insulin is titrated, and you are discussing whether or
> not the nurse called you back.................... ok..........
>
>>> it takes a type 1 about 3 months to get 'close' to their insulin dose,
>>> and they have to adjust TWO insulins to get there
>>
>> I could understand with someone newly diagnosed. But it is frustrating
>> for someone who had, had control and now does not.
>
> so? do you think that other type 2's going onto insulin don't have the
> same adjustment period? are you trying to say there should be 'your right
> insulin dose' guessed out of thin air so that you have instant control
> again?
>
> guess what?..... once you have your bg under control again, and just think
> everything is going smoothly, you are going to have to adjust your insulin
> again.......... welcome to using insulin
>
>>> what do you want to hear? X is the 'right' amount of insulin? because
>>> that simply can't happen............. trial and error is how you adjust
>>> insulin
>>
>> Well, no. But it isn't right to keep me running in the 400's when I am
>> getting dehydrated and sick from it.
>>> good luck
>>
>> The Dr. said to up it to 34 units tonight, then wait 3 days and up it
>> another 8 points from there. That makes more sense since there is
>> obviously no chance of my going hypo at the rate I am going.
>
> ok, the Dr found out that 2 units of insuln isn't going to affect you
> quickly as it does A LOT OF TYPE 2's WHO JUST GO ONTO insulin, i know a
> lot of type 2 diabetics who take 10 units of Lantus at bedtime and that is
> ALL they need to control their bg levels........... and THEY started out
> at 400 when they were put on insulin
>
> your expectations of the Dr are unreasonable, in all honesty

I don't think so. To expect to respond to a Fax sent by a nurse? To allow
almost a month to go by before a response? When the nurse stated (although
it seems wrongly) that I need additional testing?

According to some of the other people here, I was not taking ENOUGH action!

The problem *I* had was that I did not start out with BG in the 400's. It
was in the 200's. It was only AFTER I was put on the insulin that the
numbers began to climb. And the more insulin I took, the higher those
numbers rose. From what I have read, this is *not* normal and I should
expect the Dr. to say something about this.

I now know that he *did* in fact say something about it and in a timely
fashion but due to some snafu (I know not what), the information did not get
to the right person. Anyway... It's over now.

On May 8, 9:13*pm, Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Julie Bove wrote:
> > I am sooo steamed right now. *BG still out of control, although it does seem
> > to have come down a bit. *At least it's not in the 400's. *The nursetold me
> > to call her back today. *And guess what? *She's on vacation for a week! *She
> > was out for a week a few weeks ago as well. *She made NO effort to getback
> > to me at all. *Didn't return MY calls. *My Dr. has not returned a call
> > either.
>
> > The receptionist said she would have the other nurse call me back when he
> > comes in, whenever that will be. *He will probably tell me the same thing.
> > Increase by 2 units every 3-4 days. *At this rate, it will take me next to
> > forever to get in control, if I ever will on this Lantus. *Grrr...
>
> what's your point Julie?
>
> adjusting the insulin by 2 units every 3-4 days IS the protocol to
> adjusting your insulin
>
> it takes a type 1 about 3 months to get 'close' to their insulin dose,
> and they have to adjust TWO insulins to get there

Well, there's "close" and there's "close", I guess.

26 years with this stupid disease, and I'm still dialing my doses up
and down a half unit at a time, and according to some of the
statistics spouted by others here I'm still not close enough.
(Although I think I'm doing pretty good.)

But Julie shouldn't be at 300 or 400 and not getting good advice on
how to do something more effective more quickly. I think she's getting
more attention now than before from her doc and this other nurse, and
that's a GOOD thing. I think that for her, the big gotcha was that
when she started on insulin the oral hypoglycemics were still
increasing her insulin sensitvity, but those wore off after a few days
and led her to feeling that the increasing dose of Lantus was the
cause of high bg's.

Lantus's real effectiveness curve is not actually flat across 24 hours
and then going to zero. For me, it peaks around twelve hours but has a
long, long, long tail. There are potential instabilities if I dial it
up and down more often than once every two days - and I only dial it
up and down by half a unit at a time. Julie has much bigger changes to
make, and I feel she's actually making those changes effectively now.
As the target comes into the viewfinder she'll do way better than
having the target being on the other side of her head!

It is very frustrating to feel like you have no handles on a problem,
or that the tool you've been given, when you turn the handle the way
you were told, at first seems to make it worse. Been there, done that.

Tim.

On Fri, 09 May 2008 14:49:24 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net>
wrote:

>That's what I thought. Had I followed this protocol, I would already be to
>this point. Woke to 136 this morning and this is where the first nurse
>told me to be. Said I needed to be <150. So I hope this is not a fluke and
>this continues.

Woo-hoo! Touch wood.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:tah924573pjqpk7la7qtk06mddvlni5ujh@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 09 May 2008 14:49:24 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>>That's what I thought. Had I followed this protocol, I would already be
>>to
>>this point. Woke to 136 this morning and this is where the first nurse
>>told me to be. Said I needed to be <150. So I hope this is not a fluke
>>and
>>this continues.
>
> Woo-hoo! Touch wood.

Shot up to 294 before lunch. So we shall see.

On Fri, 09 May 2008 22:22:31 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net>
wrote:

>
>"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
>news:tah924573pjqpk7la7qtk06mddvlni5ujh@4ax.com.. .
>> On Fri, 09 May 2008 14:49:24 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>That's what I thought. Had I followed this protocol, I would already be
>>>to
>>>this point. Woke to 136 this morning and this is where the first nurse
>>>told me to be. Said I needed to be <150. So I hope this is not a fluke
>>>and
>>>this continues.
>>
>> Woo-hoo! Touch wood.
>
>Shot up to 294 before lunch. So we shall see.
>

At least that's following an understandable pattern. At least as much
of a pattern as two readings in a row make :P

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25