High bread/cereal grain consumption associated with increased renalcancer risk

x-no-archive: yes

And ovarian, and breast, and pancreatic, and prostate...


Susan


Public release date: 20-Oct-2006

Contact: David Greenberg
dgreenbe@wiley.com
201-748-6484
John Wiley & Sons, Inc.
High bread consumption is associated with increased risk of renal cell
carcinoma

A case-control study of more than 2300 Italians has found a significant
association between high bread consumption and renal cell carcinoma.
Eating a lot of pasta and rice may also raise the risk, while eating
many vegetables may lower the risk. The study published online October
20, 2006 in the International Journal of Cancer, the official journal of
the International Union Against Cancer (UICC), and is available via
Wiley InterScience at http://www.interscience.wiley.com/journal/ijc.
Renal cell carcinoma (RCC) is the most common type of kidney cancer, and
accounts for 2 percent of all adult cancers. Previous studies have shown
that diet plays a role in RCC risk, but attempts to discern which foods
have harmful or beneficial effects have been inconclusive. To discern
the relationship between specific foods and RCC risk, researchers led by
Francesca Bravi of the Institute of Pharmacological Research "Mario
Negri" in Milan, conducted a large case-control study of 2301 Italians.
Between 1992 and 2004, the researchers enrolled 767 adults diagnosed
with RCC and 1534 controls who did not have the disease. Two controls
were matched to each case by gender, age range, and location. The
researchers collected sociodemographic information, anthropomorphic
measures, lifestyle habits and personal and family medical history from
each participant. They also administered a 78-item food frequency
questionnaire which asked about the average weekly consumption for each
item over the previous two years. They then performed statistical
analyses to discover odds ratios (OR) with a 95 percent confidence
interval.
"A significant direct association was observed for bread consumption
(OR=1.94) for the highest compared to the lowest quintile of intake,"
the researchers report. Those who consumed more bread had a higher RCC
risk. A modest non-significant risk increase was also observed for pasta
and rice (OR=1.29). By contrast, decreasing risk was associated with
increasing intake of poultry, processed meat, and all vegetables, both
raw and cooked.
The association between elevated cereal intake (bread, pasta and rice)
"may be due to the high glycemic index of these foods and their possible
involvement in insulin-like growth factors," the researchers suggest.
The inverse relationship between vegetable consumption is consistent
with previous studies and may be related to their content of vitamins,
micronutrients or elements such as carotenoids, flavonoids and
phytosterols.
While the study was limited by the fact that the interviewers who
gathered each participant's information and administered the food
questionnaire were not blind to case-control status, its strengths
include the large sample size and the reproducibility and validity of
diet information.
"Our results confirm that diet may play a role on the risk of RCC, and
in particular, a moderate cereal and high vegetable consumption may have
a favorable effect on this neoplasm," the authors conclude.

###
Article: "Food Groups and Renal Cell Carcinoma: A Case-Control Study
from Italy," Francesca Bravi, Cristina Bosetti, Lorenza Scotti, Renato
Talamini, Maurizio Montella, Valerio Ramazzotti, Eva Negri, Silvia
Franceschi, and Carlo La Vecchia, International Journal of Cancer;
Published Online: October 20, 2006 (DOI: 10.1002/ijc.22225).
About the International Journal of Cancer
The International Journal of Cancer, the Official Journal of the
International Union Against Cancer (UICC), has long been established as
a leading publication for original papers and review articles on the
spectrum of topics germane to experimental and clinical cancer research.
The International Journal of Cancer concentrates on the fundamental
studies that have relevance to the understanding and effective treatment
of human cancer. This resource is distinctive for publishing
epidemiological studies from all over the world.
The International Journal of Cancer is published 30 issues per year and
is available in print through John Wiley & Sons, Inc. at www.wiley.com
and online at http://www.interscience.wiley.com/journal/ijc. For further
information, please contact Prof. Harald zur Hausen, Editor-in-Chief,
International Journal of Cancer, Heidelberg, Germany, Tel. +49 6221 424
800.

x-no-archive: yes

Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> And ovarian, and breast, and pancreatic, and prostate...
>
>
> Susan
>
>
> Public release date: 20-Oct-2006
>
> Contact: David Greenberg
> dgreenbe@wiley.com
> 201-748-6484
> John Wiley & Sons, Inc.
> High bread consumption is associated with increased risk of renal cell
> carcinoma
>
> A case-control study of more than 2300 Italians has found a significant
> association between high bread consumption and renal cell carcinoma.
> Eating a lot of pasta and rice may also raise the risk, while eating
> many vegetables may lower the risk. The study published online October
> 20, 2006 in the International Journal of Cancer, the official journal of
> the International Union Against Cancer (UICC), and is available via
> Wiley InterScience at http://www.interscience.wiley.com/journal/ijc.
> Renal cell carcinoma (RCC) is the most common type of kidney cancer, and
> accounts for 2 percent of all adult cancers. Previous studies have shown
> that diet plays a role in RCC risk, but attempts to discern which foods
> have harmful or beneficial effects have been inconclusive. To discern
> the relationship between specific foods and RCC risk, researchers led by
> Francesca Bravi of the Institute of Pharmacological Research "Mario
> Negri" in Milan, conducted a large case-control study of 2301 Italians.
> Between 1992 and 2004, the researchers enrolled 767 adults diagnosed
> with RCC and 1534 controls who did not have the disease. Two controls
> were matched to each case by gender, age range, and location. The
> researchers collected sociodemographic information, anthropomorphic
> measures, lifestyle habits and personal and family medical history from
> each participant. They also administered a 78-item food frequency
> questionnaire which asked about the average weekly consumption for each
> item over the previous two years. They then performed statistical
> analyses to discover odds ratios (OR) with a 95 percent confidence
> interval.
> "A significant direct association was observed for bread consumption
> (OR=1.94) for the highest compared to the lowest quintile of intake,"
> the researchers report. Those who consumed more bread had a higher RCC
> risk. A modest non-significant risk increase was also observed for pasta
> and rice (OR=1.29). By contrast, decreasing risk was associated with
> increasing intake of poultry, processed meat, and all vegetables, both
> raw and cooked.

> *******The association between elevated cereal intake (bread, pasta and rice)
> "may be due to the high glycemic index of these foods and their possible
> involvement in insulin-like growth factors," the researchers suggest.
> The inverse relationship between vegetable consumption is consistent
> with previous studies and may be related to their content of vitamins,
> micronutrients or elements such as carotenoids, flavonoids and
> phytosterols.******

I've emphasized the paragraph above because It's what I consider the
practical take home message. Eat your veggies, limit the starches
whether you're diabetic or not.

Susan

Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
> I've emphasized the paragraph above because It's what I consider the
> practical take home message. Eat your veggies, limit the starches
> whether you're diabetic or not.
>
> Susan

I would say that important message is stay away from procerssed food as
much as possible.

Whole grains were not tested in the research cited.

Anil

On 20-Oct-2006, "Anil" <navkal@gmail.com> wrote:

> Whole grains were not tested in the research cited.

For me, it seems whole grains are infinitely preferable to processed carbs,
but I still limit them and count them in my less than 100 gms per day
allocation...

Will, T2

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Will, T2 wrote:
>> I still limit them and count them in my less than 100 gms per day allocation...
>
> Will, T2

Will,

> Susan wrote:
>> Eat your veggies, limit the starches whether you're diabetic or not.

I was refering to Susan's comment "whether you're diabetic or not".
There is no reason for a non-diabetic person to limit un-processed
whole grain foods. Even for a diabetic as I have said in another
thread, its quite possible to incorporate whole grains as long as they
are sprouted. At least that is my (T2DM) experience. YMMV as always.

Anil

x-no-archive: yes

Anil wrote:
> Susan wrote:
>
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>
>>
>>I've emphasized the paragraph above because It's what I consider the
>>practical take home message. Eat your veggies, limit the starches
>>whether you're diabetic or not.
>>
>>Susan
>
>
> I would say that important message is stay away from procerssed food as
> much as possible.
>
> Whole grains were not tested in the research cited.
>
> Anil
>

Yes, Anil, I know that's your belief.

Susan

x-no-archive: yes

Anil wrote:

> I was refering to Susan's comment "whether you're diabetic or not".
> There is no reason for a non-diabetic person to limit un-processed
> whole grain foods.

I disagree. Starch consumption and the resultant hyperinsulinemia
promote cancers, CVD and DM.

Even for a diabetic as I have said in another
> thread, its quite possible to incorporate whole grains as long as they
> are sprouted. At least that is my (T2DM) experience. YMMV as always.

Even those with a strong predisposition to DM can delay it by conserving
beta cells through carb control. I'm talking about prevention, not cure.

Susan

Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes

>
> Yes, Anil, I know that's your belief.
>
> Susan

If unprocessed whole grain = starch is your belief. I have no
arguments.

Anil

On 20-Oct-2006, "Anil" <navkal@gmail.com> wrote:

> I was refering to Susan's comment "whether you're diabetic or not".
> There is no reason for a non-diabetic person to limit un-processed
> whole grain foods. Even for a diabetic as I have said in another
> thread, its quite possible to incorporate whole grains as long as they
> are sprouted. At least that is my (T2DM) experience. YMMV as always.

You are probably right about that, Anil, at least for non-diabetics and
whole grains. Also, my personal experience has been that srouted whole
grains are fabulous. On the other hand, I never gained really good control
until I limited all carbs, including sprouted whole grains, to around 100
gms per day, or less. Of course, that's just me and my quirky
metabolism..... but it works for me. The good thing about sprouted whole
grains, as you know, they are higher in protein and fibre and lower in
actual carbs, or so that has been my impression.

Hope you are having a great day!

Will, T2

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

x-no-archive: yes

Anil wrote:
> Susan wrote:
>
>>x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>>Yes, Anil, I know that's your belief.
>>
>>Susan
>
>
> If unprocessed whole grain = starch is your belief. I have no
> arguments.
>
> Anil
>

Anil, my belief, based upon the evidence I've read in scientific
literature, is that starch is a nutritionally inferior food as compared
to vegetables, fruits, quality proteins and fats.

There is less damage from whole grains, but I do not share your (or
Quentin's) belief that there are qualities to them that make them a
desirable choice when more nutritious, less damaging foods are available.


Susan

Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Anil wrote:
> >
> > If unprocessed whole grain = starch is your belief. I have no
> > arguments.
> >
> > Anil
> >
>
> Anil, my belief, based upon the evidence I've read in scientific
> literature, is that starch is a nutritionally inferior food as compared
> to vegetables, fruits, quality proteins and fats.

The context for this discussion is not consuming starch in its purest
form. Vegetables, like tomatoes, green leafy vegetables, broccoli and
carrots all contain "starch" but are high in nutrients and even you
recommend them. Like you we all read scientific literature and adapt to
what works for us. You are welcome to share what works for you. I am
sharing what works for me within my frame of refrence.

Treating whole grain = "Starch" as bad does not produce good guide
lines for any one IMHO. I respect your right to feel otherwise.

Anil

Will, T2 wrote:
> On 20-Oct-2006, "Anil" <navkal@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, I never gained really good control
> until I limited all carbs, including sprouted whole grains, to around 100
> gms per day, or less.

Will I am not advocating diet based purely on sprouted whole grains.
Having said that I did share the role they play in my diet and how I
eat them after having had a rather large serving salad.

Since I have not found a good dependable source of evaluating carb
content of sprouted "thingis" I am not even sure how to confidently say
I exceed 100 g/daye or am I realy at 50 g/day.


> Hope you are having a great day!
>

Oh I am having a ball! Anytime I see my FBG in low 80s I am always in
great mood. I am particularly delighted that more often I get these
numbers now! I am lucky I have the ability to and flexibility (in time)
to take long walks!

How are you doing my friend?

Anil

On 20-Oct-2006, "Anil" <navkal@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh I am having a ball! Anytime I see my FBG in low 80s I am always in
> great mood. I am particularly delighted that more often I get these
> numbers now! I am lucky I have the ability to and flexibility (in time)
> to take long walks!
>
> How are you doing my friend?
>
> Anil

Hello Anil,

I know what you mean about accurately estimating the amount of carbs,
calories, etc. In the end, I think most of us really just go by our own
estimates, which may be a little off sometimes.

I also share your delight when the FBG is at a decent level. This morning
mine was 96, and after breakfast and a 2 mile walk, it was 84.Mine was 84.
A great start to a new day! It has been a very long time since I have seen
a FBG in the 80s, however. Congratulations to you for that! :-)

I am doing ok these days.... glad it is Friday. I hope life is treating you
well, likewise.

Will, T2

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Anil wrote:
> Will, T2 wrote:
> >> I still limit them and count them in my less than 100 gms per day allocation...
> >
> > Will, T2
>
> Will,
>
> > Susan wrote:
> >> Eat your veggies, limit the starches whether you're diabetic or not.
>
> I was refering to Susan's comment "whether you're diabetic or not".
> There is no reason for a non-diabetic person to limit un-processed
> whole grain foods. Even for a diabetic as I have said in another
> thread, its quite possible to incorporate whole grains as long as they
> are sprouted. At least that is my (T2DM) experience. YMMV as always.

Anil,

You are experiencing what I and others have found to be true in here in
regards to whole grains and starches of any kind-- "a big brick wall."
There are some in here who scour the Internet in search of a study that
will support their "all carbs are evil" agenda. For every study
published there are usually a few others that find the exact opposite.
What I've always admired about your posts is that you are not bullied
into changing your beliefs by the usual mob mentality that permeates
this newsgroup. I also have added more sprouted grains to my diet as a
result of your posts. Thanks!

Best,
Kurt

Kurt wrote:

> You are experiencing what I and others have found to be true in here in
> regards to whole grains and starches of any kind-- "a big brick wall."
> There are some in here who scour the Internet in search of a study that
> will support their "all carbs are evil" agenda. For every study
> published there are usually a few others that find the exact opposite.
> What I've always admired about your posts is that you are not bullied
> into changing your beliefs by the usual mob mentality that permeates
> this newsgroup. I also have added more sprouted grains to my diet as a
> result of your posts. Thanks!
>
> Best,
> Kurt

Dear Kurt,

Thank you for your kind words and support. I too noticed that you have
a diet that is significantly different from many main stream folks
here. I know every one is struggling and trying to do the best they can
based on their own context and life experience. I also know many here
try very hard to share lot of research they have so painfully
uncovered. They do so that others too can benefit from it. I applaud
them for doing so.

What gets over looked is the long term implications of selecting a
given lifestyle. I know I have arrived at it with plenty of struggle.
And I am still not sure about many things. For example my insistence on
staying away from statins or any other cholesterol lowering drugs. In
that sense I trust my own body way too much to be able to heal itself.
I strongly feel that if I take care of its nutritional needs it will
serve me a long time. In some ways it is a spiritual connection. I
accept it goes in the direction of fuzzy mushy intangible direction.
But that is what works for me.

I also have a strong desire to go for environmentally sound eating
habits. Industrial grown corn fed industrial cows don't appeal to me.
And yet I can not go live in a purely stone age era. So like everyone
else I too compromise. But as much as possible I would like to do my
share and follow that lifestyle as I see fit. What I am also committed
to is sharing my success as well as my failures. So at least a neutral
observer will be able to benefit from it. Those who have done the
research and have already come up with something that works for them, I
say power to you. I am not asking any one to modify or give up X what
ever X they feel works for them. Just make sure you understand what
went into my decision making process and what I am trying to prove to
myself above all.

Kurt, you are a T1. Quite often I want to add to what you are
expressing but feel our experience will by definition be different. So
I stay out of the conversation. Much what you say about diet I agree.
However not being so lucky (and I am not so sure if that by itself good
or bad :-)) with my medical team, I am left with my own struggle to
figure out what is medically prudent.

To my utter surprise I found that many of the doctors who are also my
friends who I have talked to have now started referring some of their
close circle friends to me for diet advise etc. I share with my doctor
friends many more things than I do here and they say they are glad to
see the research and readily admit that they don't really get the time
to do such research. I show them all my numbers and they say that I am
on a very good track. I myself don't give more than B+ for my progress.
If I can reduce my weight to 160 lb or less I would say I can qualify
for A. But that is another struggle.

Anyway, when you know you are leading you know that no one is in front
of you. All you know is that there obstacles to overcome and past
experience to use to over come new hurdles. Passers by or fellow
travelers provide the light. You still have to navigate.

Today is Diwali, a festival of lights and is celebrated like x-mas (or
Hanukah or Ramadan) in most of India. So on this festive day I wish all
of you a very happy Diwali and a good heath for years to come.

Cheers,

Anil
T2DM

Anil wrote:
> Kurt wrote:
>
> > You are experiencing what I and others have found to be true in here in
> > regards to whole grains and starches of any kind-- "a big brick wall."
> > There are some in here who scour the Internet in search of a study that
> > will support their "all carbs are evil" agenda. For every study
> > published there are usually a few others that find the exact opposite.
> > What I've always admired about your posts is that you are not bullied
> > into changing your beliefs by the usual mob mentality that permeates
> > this newsgroup. I also have added more sprouted grains to my diet as a
> > result of your posts. Thanks!
> >
> > Best,
> > Kurt
>
> Dear Kurt,
>
> Thank you for your kind words and support. I too noticed that you have
> a diet that is significantly different from many main stream folks
> here. I know every one is struggling and trying to do the best they can
> based on their own context and life experience. I also know many here
> try very hard to share lot of research they have so painfully
> uncovered. They do so that others too can benefit from it. I applaud
> them for doing so.
>
> What gets over looked is the long term implications of selecting a
> given lifestyle. I know I have arrived at it with plenty of struggle.
> And I am still not sure about many things. For example my insistence on
> staying away from statins or any other cholesterol lowering drugs. In
> that sense I trust my own body way too much to be able to heal itself.
> I strongly feel that if I take care of its nutritional needs it will
> serve me a long time. In some ways it is a spiritual connection. I
> accept it goes in the direction of fuzzy mushy intangible direction.
> But that is what works for me.
>
> I also have a strong desire to go for environmentally sound eating
> habits. Industrial grown corn fed industrial cows don't appeal to me.
> And yet I can not go live in a purely stone age era. So like everyone
> else I too compromise. But as much as possible I would like to do my
> share and follow that lifestyle as I see fit. What I am also committed
> to is sharing my success as well as my failures. So at least a neutral
> observer will be able to benefit from it. Those who have done the
> research and have already come up with something that works for them, I
> say power to you. I am not asking any one to modify or give up X what
> ever X they feel works for them. Just make sure you understand what
> went into my decision making process and what I am trying to prove to
> myself above all.
>
> Kurt, you are a T1. Quite often I want to add to what you are
> expressing but feel our experience will by definition be different. So
> I stay out of the conversation. Much what you say about diet I agree.
> However not being so lucky (and I am not so sure if that by itself good
> or bad :-)) with my medical team, I am left with my own struggle to
> figure out what is medically prudent.
>
> To my utter surprise I found that many of the doctors who are also my
> friends who I have talked to have now started referring some of their
> close circle friends to me for diet advise etc. I share with my doctor
> friends many more things than I do here and they say they are glad to
> see the research and readily admit that they don't really get the time
> to do such research. I show them all my numbers and they say that I am
> on a very good track. I myself don't give more than B+ for my progress.
> If I can reduce my weight to 160 lb or less I would say I can qualify
> for A. But that is another struggle.
>
> Anyway, when you know you are leading you know that no one is in front
> of you. All you know is that there obstacles to overcome and past
> experience to use to over come new hurdles. Passers by or fellow
> travelers provide the light. You still have to navigate.
>
> Today is Diwali, a festival of lights and is celebrated like x-mas (or
> Hanukah or Ramadan) in most of India. So on this festive day I wish all
> of you a very happy Diwali and a good heath for years to come.
>
> Cheers,

Thanks for the response and good words, Anil. You make this newsgroup
a much better place to read.

Best,
Kurt

Anil wrote:

> The context for this discussion is not consuming starch in its purest
> form. Vegetables, like tomatoes, green leafy vegetables, broccoli and
> carrots all contain "starch" but are high in nutrients and even you
> recommend them. Like you we all read scientific literature and adapt to
> what works for us. You are welcome to share what works for you. I am
> sharing what works for me within my frame of refrence.
>
> Treating whole grain = "Starch" as bad does not produce good guide
> lines for any one IMHO. I respect your right to feel otherwise.

Hi Anil,

According to nutritiondata.com, 100 grams of sprouted wheat
has 43 grams of carbohydrates. 100 grams of hard red winter
wheat, unsprouted, has 71 grams of carbs. That's about
a 39% reduction in carbs, but for some, that's still a rather
high carb food. I'm just using wheat as an example.

I have noticed that sprouted what tastes more like a vegetable
though, than like starch. I don;t know that that makes a difference
because there are even high carb vegetables that are too much

I wonder if you can handle them better because you are close to
normal weight, and are also on meds?

In article <1161370885.695060.232830@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups. com>,
dumb_fishie99@yahoo.com wrote:

> Anil wrote:
>
> > The context for this discussion is not consuming starch in its purest
> > form. Vegetables, like tomatoes, green leafy vegetables, broccoli and
> > carrots all contain "starch" but are high in nutrients and even you
> > recommend them. Like you we all read scientific literature and adapt to
> > what works for us. You are welcome to share what works for you. I am
> > sharing what works for me within my frame of refrence.
> >
> > Treating whole grain = "Starch" as bad does not produce good guide
> > lines for any one IMHO. I respect your right to feel otherwise.
>
> Hi Anil,
>
> According to nutritiondata.com, 100 grams of sprouted wheat
> has 43 grams of carbohydrates. 100 grams of hard red winter
> wheat, unsprouted, has 71 grams of carbs. That's about
> a 39% reduction in carbs, but for some, that's still a rather
> high carb food. I'm just using wheat as an example.
>

How many grams of unsprouted wheat do you start with to get 100 grams of
sprouted wheat?

--
"and the snark alert level has reached "fuschia""
---zig zigalo homes in on the meat of the matter

Alice Faber wrote:

> How many grams of unsprouted wheat do you start with to get 100 grams of
> sprouted wheat?

I will have to go sprout some to find out.

x-no-archive: yes

Anil wrote:

> The context for this discussion is not consuming starch in its purest
> form. Vegetables, like tomatoes, green leafy vegetables, broccoli and
> carrots all contain "starch" but are high in nutrients and even you
> recommend them. Like you we all read scientific literature and adapt to
> what works for us. You are welcome to share what works for you. I am
> sharing what works for me within my frame of refrence.
>
> Treating whole grain = "Starch" as bad does not produce good guide
> lines for any one IMHO. I respect your right to feel otherwise.

Good, because I do. :-)

Susan

Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Anil wrote:
>
> > The context for this discussion is not consuming starch in its purest
> > form. Vegetables, like tomatoes, green leafy vegetables, broccoli and
> > carrots all contain "starch" but are high in nutrients and even you
> > recommend them. Like you we all read scientific literature and adapt to
> > what works for us. You are welcome to share what works for you. I am
> > sharing what works for me within my frame of refrence.
> >
> > Treating whole grain = "Starch" as bad does not produce good guide
> > lines for any one IMHO. I respect your right to feel otherwise.
>
> Good, because I do. :-)
>
> Susan

While I have no desire to open this topic for Cancer risks and diet
connection, I don't want an impression left behind that such connection
is not already known. Here is an example of what I routinely come
across:

<\begin quote>
ref:
http://www.skinandaging.com/CG/displ...ID=article5563

Certain foods may have protective effects against heart disease and
cancer, while others may actually promote disease. Diets high in animal
fat may predispose to rectal, colon, breast, and prostate cancer. The
prostate cancer death rate is five times higher in the United States
and in northern Europe than it is in Hong Kong, Iran, Turkey, and
Japan, where diets emphasize more vegetables, grains, beans, cereals,
and fruits. These foods also have been epidemiologically associated
with a lower incidence of stroke. Fat also predisposes to heart
disease. Conversely, diets rich in omega oils and fiber, for example,
can help prevent certain age-prevalent illnesses.

<\end quote>

I am not here to debate about merits and non-merits of diet quoted
above. I would rather limit my participation to lifestyle changes I
have embraced and seem to be working for me.

Anil

dumb_fishie99@yahoo.com wrote:

> Hi Anil,
>
> According to nutritiondata.com, 100 grams of sprouted wheat
> has 43 grams of carbohydrates. 100 grams of hard red winter
> wheat, un-sprouted, has 71 grams of carbs. That's about
> a 39% reduction in carbs, but for some, that's still a rather
> high carb food. I'm just using wheat as an example.

Even an exhaustive web site like nutritiondata.com is quite inadequate
for data I am looking for. For example you will not find any
information on soaked Peanuts or sprouted rice or black eye beans.

I am however glad that you have highlighted the reduction in carb
contents of wheat sprouts. The way I eat these things, I don't eat them
in isolation. Based on the portions I eat I suspect my total intake of
cooked sprouted legumes + sprouted grains may not exceed 50-75 grams.
As I said before, I don't go with portion control as a goal. Its
certainly a side effect the way I eat. What I do know is the food I eat
and the way I eat does not spike me more than 20-30 mg/dL (1.7 mmol/L).

>
> I have noticed that sprouted what tastes more like a vegetable
> though, than like starch. I don't know that that makes a difference
> because there are even high carb vegetables that are too much

There is way to eat raw sprouted beans by making it some kind of a
salad dish using cilantro or coriander + Peanut chutney + fresh lemon
juice. I don't do this dish often. But sure tests good. Mostly I cook
the sprouted seeds. So I wouldn't like it eating raw myself. But
that's just me.

> I wonder if you can handle them better because you are close to
> normal weight, and are also on meds?

Hard to say. I have been serious about long walks for last 3-4 months.
I have to say I can accommodate much more carb in my diet now than I
ever did. I still try not to splurge. I am 5'10" 168 Lb i.e BMI of
23.4. My goal is to be around 21.5 So as you can see I have ways to go!


Anil
T2

Anil wrote:

> Even an exhaustive web site like nutritiondata.com is quite inadequate
> for data I am looking for. For example you will not find any
> information on soaked Peanuts or sprouted rice or black eye beans.
>
> I am however glad that you have highlighted the reduction in carb
> contents of wheat sprouts. The way I eat these things, I don't eat them
> in isolation. Based on the portions I eat I suspect my total intake of
> cooked sprouted legumes + sprouted grains may not exceed 50-75 grams.
> As I said before, I don't go with portion control as a goal. Its
> certainly a side effect the way I eat. What I do know is the food I eat
> and the way I eat does not spike me more than 20-30 mg/dL (1.7 mmol/L).
>
> >
> > I have noticed that sprouted what tastes more like a vegetable
> > though, than like starch. I don't know that that makes a difference
> > because there are even high carb vegetables that are too much
>
> There is way to eat raw sprouted beans by making it some kind of a
> salad dish using cilantro or coriander + Peanut chutney + fresh lemon
> juice. I don't do this dish often. But sure tests good. Mostly I cook
> the sprouted seeds. So I wouldn't like it eating raw myself. But
> that's just me.
>
> > I wonder if you can handle them better because you are close to
> > normal weight, and are also on meds?
>
> Hard to say. I have been serious about long walks for last 3-4 months.
> I have to say I can accommodate much more carb in my diet now than I
> ever did. I still try not to splurge. I am 5'10" 168 Lb i.e BMI of
> 23.4. My goal is to be around 21.5 So as you can see I have ways to go!


I'd think the only reason you can do this and get enough protein,
is that you eat the peanuts. Sprouted lentils, for example, have only
9 grams of protein per 100 grams of sprouts. That's the same
amount as cooked lentils, and lentils are higher in protein than grains

and many legumes, I think.

Peanuts (raw, unsoaked) have 25 grams of protein and 49 grams
of fat per 100 grams (and 563 calories!). So if you soak them I guess
you'd just halve that.

If you ate 75 grams of sprouted lentils, you'd only get 6.75 grams
of protein.

Anil wrote:

> Even an exhaustive web site like nutritiondata.com is quite inadequate
> for data I am looking for. For example you will not find any
> information on soaked Peanuts or sprouted rice or black eye beans.
>
> I am however glad that you have highlighted the reduction in carb
> contents of wheat sprouts. The way I eat these things, I don't eat them
> in isolation. Based on the portions I eat I suspect my total intake of
> cooked sprouted legumes + sprouted grains may not exceed 50-75 grams.
> As I said before, I don't go with portion control as a goal. Its
> certainly a side effect the way I eat. What I do know is the food I eat
> and the way I eat does not spike me more than 20-30 mg/dL (1.7 mmol/L).
>
> >
> > I have noticed that sprouted what tastes more like a vegetable
> > though, than like starch. I don't know that that makes a difference
> > because there are even high carb vegetables that are too much
>
> There is way to eat raw sprouted beans by making it some kind of a
> salad dish using cilantro or coriander + Peanut chutney + fresh lemon
> juice. I don't do this dish often. But sure tests good. Mostly I cook
> the sprouted seeds. So I wouldn't like it eating raw myself. But
> that's just me.
>
> > I wonder if you can handle them better because you are close to
> > normal weight, and are also on meds?
>
> Hard to say. I have been serious about long walks for last 3-4 months.
> I have to say I can accommodate much more carb in my diet now than I
> ever did. I still try not to splurge. I am 5'10" 168 Lb i.e BMI of
> 23.4. My goal is to be around 21.5 So as you can see I have ways to go!


I'd think the only reason you can do this and get enough protein,
is that you eat the peanuts. Sprouted lentils, for example, have only
9 grams of protein per 100 grams of sprouts. That's the same
amount as cooked lentils, and lentils are higher in protein than grains

and many legumes, I think.

Peanuts (raw, unsoaked) have 25 grams of protein and 49 grams
of fat per 100 grams (and 563 calories!). So if you soak them I guess
you'd just halve that.

If you ate 75 grams of sprouted lentils, you'd only get 6.75 grams
of protein.

dumb_fishie99@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'd think the only reason you can do this and get enough protein,
> is that you eat the peanuts. Sprouted lentils, for example, have only
> 9 grams of protein per 100 grams of sprouts. That's the same
> amount as cooked lentils, and lentils are higher in protein than grains
> and many legumes, I think.
>
> Peanuts (raw, unsoaked) have 25 grams of protein and 49 grams
> of fat per 100 grams (and 563 calories!). So if you soak them I guess
> you'd just halve that.


There is no doubt I have plenty of peanuts in my diet. At least a cup
and half if not two a day. I also eat different legumes in soup form
etc. Add to that there is sesame in my cooking.
Throughout he day I am munching on various nuts. Walnuts and
soaked/Sliced almonds are consumed practically every day. That adds to
the total.

Plus the greens by themselves though not a main source of protein do
add up. Here what 100 gm of seeds will give in terms of protein:

Chickpeas 19 gm
Mung 25 gm
Lentil 25 gm
Kidney Beans 23 gm
Peanut 38 gm

RDA for protein is about 4.5 gms/10lbs or 1 gm/1kg. So I need between
70-75 gms a day. With my diet I can see I am surely getting that much.
I also know I am adding muscle mass!

The sprouting angle is not covered in above discussion. It makes a big
diffrence in making the proteins available in the seeds readily
digestable. I wish I had a good refrence site handy.

On the subject of RDA for protein I found the following information
listed at Harvard School of Public Health Nutrition Source very
helpful. (ref:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritio...e/protein.html)

<\Begin quote>
The bottom line is that it's important to pay attention to what comes
along with the protein in your food choices. If you are partial to
beef, stick with the leanest cuts. Fish or poultry are excellent
alternatives. Even better options are vegetable sources of protein,
such as beans, nuts, and whole grains.
<\End quote>

Getting adequate protein is least of my worries.

Anil
T2