Insulin for type 2 question

I was diagnosed type 2 in 2003 with a FBG of 130 -- just over the
diagnostic line. *Initially I low-carbed fairly strenuously then got on
metformin, and I was doing very well for a few years until my body
stopped tolerating the metformin. *After finally admitting that it was
the met that was causing the chronic diarrhea that was so negatively
impacting my quality of life, I went off it entirely. *Periodically I
try going back on at a low dose, and the diarrhea and cramping returns
within 24 hours. *I'd been having trouble staying a strict low-carber
before I went off the met, and now I'm off it for 8 months my FBGs
sometimes run in the 130-165 range. *Not good. *I can stay in the range
of 80-120 during the day if I stay away fairly strictly from carb-laden
food items and/or keep up my exercise, but that FBG scares me.

I've been looking at my options. *I'm increasing my exercise (it's
gardening season, and I'm looking forward to the arrival of a great bike
I ordered), but that's not enough. *I hesitate to go on a beta
stimulator because a) I don't want to stress out my beta cells and b) I
don't want my meds to dictate my eating. *Actos and Avandia are out due
to the recent discoveries about higher rates of heart problems with
them. *Byetta doesn't sound like a lot of fun. *So I thought, why not be
a little old-fashioned and try an insulin? *

So, here's my question: *might a small amount of a background insulin
like Lantus help with my morning numbers and give me a little more
wiggle room during the day by keeping my pre-meal numbers a little
lower? *I know I also need to go back to seeing a real endocrinologist.
My excellent one left the state two years ago, and I've been relying on
internist support, but at this point I don't think her knowledge of my
condition is sophisticated enough. *She keeps pushing beta stimulators
even after I say I won't take them. *I think she's working up to
labeling me non-compliant. *

Anyway, any information about using a background insulin without a bolus
would be helpful. *Thanks!

Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7

Priscilla H. Ballou wrote:
> I was diagnosed type 2 in 2003 with a FBG of 130 -- just over the
> diagnostic line. Initially I low-carbed fairly strenuously then got on
> metformin, and I was doing very well for a few years until my body
> stopped tolerating the metformin. After finally admitting that it was
> the met that was causing the chronic diarrhea that was so negatively
> impacting my quality of life, I went off it entirely. Periodically I
> try going back on at a low dose, and the diarrhea and cramping returns
> within 24 hours. I'd been having trouble staying a strict low-carber
> before I went off the met, and now I'm off it for 8 months my FBGs
> sometimes run in the 130-165 range. Not good. I can stay in the range
> of 80-120 during the day if I stay away fairly strictly from carb-laden
> food items and/or keep up my exercise, but that FBG scares me.
>
> I've been looking at my options. I'm increasing my exercise (it's
> gardening season, and I'm looking forward to the arrival of a great bike
> I ordered), but that's not enough. I hesitate to go on a beta
> stimulator because a) I don't want to stress out my beta cells and b) I
> don't want my meds to dictate my eating. Actos and Avandia are out due
> to the recent discoveries about higher rates of heart problems with
> them. Byetta doesn't sound like a lot of fun. So I thought, why not be
> a little old-fashioned and try an insulin?
>
> So, here's my question: might a small amount of a background insulin
> like Lantus help with my morning numbers and give me a little more
> wiggle room during the day by keeping my pre-meal numbers a little
> lower? I know I also need to go back to seeing a real endocrinologist.
> My excellent one left the state two years ago, and I've been relying on
> internist support, but at this point I don't think her knowledge of my
> condition is sophisticated enough. She keeps pushing beta stimulators
> even after I say I won't take them. I think she's working up to
> labeling me non-compliant.
>
> Anyway, any information about using a background insulin without a bolus
> would be helpful. Thanks!
>
> Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7
here is the 'blurb' that Lantus puts out for use of Lantus as a type 2
http://www.lantus.com/why_lantus/add...n_therapy.aspx


then there is this interesting video link ( you have to sign up for
medscape but they don't spam you )

Insulin Therapy of Diabetes: Pathophysiology and Indications CME

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/563291

this is an excellent overview of diabetes, and the diagnosis of it, and
the reasons why earlier insulin intervention might be a better way for
us to go, than to stick to the sulf meds and beat our reduced pancreatic
function to death (for type 2's)


--
kate
type 1 since 1987
www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/n...diagnosed.html

In article <69geisF302oe3U1@mid.individual.net>,
Tiger_Lily <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> Priscilla H. Ballou wrote:
> > I was diagnosed type 2 in 2003 with a FBG of 130 -- just over the
> > diagnostic line. Initially I low-carbed fairly strenuously then got on
> > metformin, and I was doing very well for a few years until my body
> > stopped tolerating the metformin. After finally admitting that it was
> > the met that was causing the chronic diarrhea that was so negatively
> > impacting my quality of life, I went off it entirely. Periodically I
> > try going back on at a low dose, and the diarrhea and cramping returns
> > within 24 hours. I'd been having trouble staying a strict low-carber
> > before I went off the met, and now I'm off it for 8 months my FBGs
> > sometimes run in the 130-165 range. Not good. I can stay in the range
> > of 80-120 during the day if I stay away fairly strictly from carb-laden
> > food items and/or keep up my exercise, but that FBG scares me.
> >
> > I've been looking at my options. I'm increasing my exercise (it's
> > gardening season, and I'm looking forward to the arrival of a great bike
> > I ordered), but that's not enough. I hesitate to go on a beta
> > stimulator because a) I don't want to stress out my beta cells and b) I
> > don't want my meds to dictate my eating. Actos and Avandia are out due
> > to the recent discoveries about higher rates of heart problems with
> > them. Byetta doesn't sound like a lot of fun. So I thought, why not be
> > a little old-fashioned and try an insulin?
> >
> > So, here's my question: might a small amount of a background insulin
> > like Lantus help with my morning numbers and give me a little more
> > wiggle room during the day by keeping my pre-meal numbers a little
> > lower? I know I also need to go back to seeing a real endocrinologist.
> > My excellent one left the state two years ago, and I've been relying on
> > internist support, but at this point I don't think her knowledge of my
> > condition is sophisticated enough. She keeps pushing beta stimulators
> > even after I say I won't take them. I think she's working up to
> > labeling me non-compliant.
> >
> > Anyway, any information about using a background insulin without a bolus
> > would be helpful. Thanks!
> >
> > Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7
> here is the 'blurb' that Lantus puts out for use of Lantus as a type 2
> http://www.lantus.com/why_lantus/add...on_therapy.asp
> x
>
>
> then there is this interesting video link ( you have to sign up for
> medscape but they don't spam you )
>
> Insulin Therapy of Diabetes: Pathophysiology and Indications CME
>
> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/563291
>
> this is an excellent overview of diabetes, and the diagnosis of it, and
> the reasons why earlier insulin intervention might be a better way for
> us to go, than to stick to the sulf meds and beat our reduced pancreatic
> function to death (for type 2's)

Thanks, Kate. I'll look at it when I get a spare moment.

Priscilla

Priscilla H. Ballou wrote:
> In article <69geisF302oe3U1@mid.individual.net>,
> Tiger_Lily <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> Priscilla H. Ballou wrote:
>>> I was diagnosed type 2 in 2003 with a FBG of 130 -- just over the
>>> diagnostic line. Initially I low-carbed fairly strenuously then got on
>>> metformin, and I was doing very well for a few years until my body
>>> stopped tolerating the metformin. After finally admitting that it was
>>> the met that was causing the chronic diarrhea that was so negatively
>>> impacting my quality of life, I went off it entirely. Periodically I
>>> try going back on at a low dose, and the diarrhea and cramping returns
>>> within 24 hours. I'd been having trouble staying a strict low-carber
>>> before I went off the met, and now I'm off it for 8 months my FBGs
>>> sometimes run in the 130-165 range. Not good. I can stay in the range
>>> of 80-120 during the day if I stay away fairly strictly from carb-laden
>>> food items and/or keep up my exercise, but that FBG scares me.
>>>
>>> I've been looking at my options. I'm increasing my exercise (it's
>>> gardening season, and I'm looking forward to the arrival of a great bike
>>> I ordered), but that's not enough. I hesitate to go on a beta
>>> stimulator because a) I don't want to stress out my beta cells and b) I
>>> don't want my meds to dictate my eating. Actos and Avandia are out due
>>> to the recent discoveries about higher rates of heart problems with
>>> them. Byetta doesn't sound like a lot of fun. So I thought, why not be
>>> a little old-fashioned and try an insulin?
>>>
>>> So, here's my question: might a small amount of a background insulin
>>> like Lantus help with my morning numbers and give me a little more
>>> wiggle room during the day by keeping my pre-meal numbers a little
>>> lower? I know I also need to go back to seeing a real endocrinologist.
>>> My excellent one left the state two years ago, and I've been relying on
>>> internist support, but at this point I don't think her knowledge of my
>>> condition is sophisticated enough. She keeps pushing beta stimulators
>>> even after I say I won't take them. I think she's working up to
>>> labeling me non-compliant.
>>>
>>> Anyway, any information about using a background insulin without a bolus
>>> would be helpful. Thanks!
>>>
>>> Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7
>> here is the 'blurb' that Lantus puts out for use of Lantus as a type 2
>> http://www.lantus.com/why_lantus/add...on_therapy.asp
>> x
>>
>>
>> then there is this interesting video link ( you have to sign up for
>> medscape but they don't spam you )
>>
>> Insulin Therapy of Diabetes: Pathophysiology and Indications CME
>>
>> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/563291
>>
>> this is an excellent overview of diabetes, and the diagnosis of it, and
>> the reasons why earlier insulin intervention might be a better way for
>> us to go, than to stick to the sulf meds and beat our reduced pancreatic
>> function to death (for type 2's)
>
> Thanks, Kate. I'll look at it when I get a spare moment.
>
> Priscilla
it took a while to watch the video...... i think it was 30 min or so !

but i was impressed enough with the link that i bookmarked it

--
kate
type 1 since 1987
www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/n...diagnosed.html

"Priscilla H. Ballou" <vze23t8n@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:vze23t8n-1CED02.11030220052008@individual.net...
>I was diagnosed type 2 in 2003 with a FBG of 130 -- just over the
> diagnostic line. Initially I low-carbed fairly strenuously then got on
> metformin, and I was doing very well for a few years until my body
> stopped tolerating the metformin. After finally admitting that it was
> the met that was causing the chronic diarrhea that was so negatively
> impacting my quality of life, I went off it entirely. Periodically I
> try going back on at a low dose, and the diarrhea and cramping returns
> within 24 hours. I'd been having trouble staying a strict low-carber
> before I went off the met, and now I'm off it for 8 months my FBGs
> sometimes run in the 130-165 range. Not good. I can stay in the range
> of 80-120 during the day if I stay away fairly strictly from carb-laden
> food items and/or keep up my exercise, but that FBG scares me.
>
> I've been looking at my options. I'm increasing my exercise (it's
> gardening season, and I'm looking forward to the arrival of a great bike
> I ordered), but that's not enough. I hesitate to go on a beta
> stimulator because a) I don't want to stress out my beta cells and b) I
> don't want my meds to dictate my eating. Actos and Avandia are out due
> to the recent discoveries about higher rates of heart problems with
> them. Byetta doesn't sound like a lot of fun. So I thought, why not be
> a little old-fashioned and try an insulin?
>
> So, here's my question: might a small amount of a background insulin
> like Lantus help with my morning numbers and give me a little more
> wiggle room during the day by keeping my pre-meal numbers a little
> lower? I know I also need to go back to seeing a real endocrinologist.
> My excellent one left the state two years ago, and I've been relying on
> internist support, but at this point I don't think her knowledge of my
> condition is sophisticated enough. She keeps pushing beta stimulators
> even after I say I won't take them. I think she's working up to
> labeling me non-compliant.
>
> Anyway, any information about using a background insulin without a bolus
> would be helpful. Thanks!
>
> Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7

Hi Priscilla,

I agree with your reasoning on the meds. Fortunately, I'm not at the
crossroads, but my mind has wandered down that path a few times and come up
with very similar conclusions.

However, it seems to me that your daytime numbers are just fine, and you are
experiencing dawn phenomena. I'm wondering if insulin might actually
exacerbate this? Or if it took care of your FBG number, if it might make
you prone to hypos? Not having any experience, I don't know the answers,
but wanted to throw out the questions. Hopefully, someone more
knowledgeable than me will know.
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5

In article <69ghumF31cb5cU2@mid.individual.net>,
Tiger_Lily <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> >> here is the 'blurb' that Lantus puts out for use of Lantus as a type 2
> >> http://www.lantus.com/why_lantus/add...nation_therapy.
> >> asp
> >> x
> >>
> >>
> >> then there is this interesting video link ( you have to sign up for
> >> medscape but they don't spam you )
> >>
> >> Insulin Therapy of Diabetes: Pathophysiology and Indications CME
> >>
> >> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/563291
> >>
> >> this is an excellent overview of diabetes, and the diagnosis of it, and
> >> the reasons why earlier insulin intervention might be a better way for
> >> us to go, than to stick to the sulf meds and beat our reduced pancreatic
> >> function to death (for type 2's)
> >
> > Thanks, Kate. I'll look at it when I get a spare moment.
> >
> > Priscilla
> it took a while to watch the video...... i think it was 30 min or so !
>
> but i was impressed enough with the link that i bookmarked it

That link gave me a written article, which I printed off to read on the
bus.

Priscilla

In article <g0v6bb$efe$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
"Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote:

> However, it seems to me that your daytime numbers are just fine,

If I low-carb rather strictly, which is not always easy. I wouldn't
mind being able to ease off a bit.

> and you are
> experiencing dawn phenomena. I'm wondering if insulin might actually
> exacerbate this? Or if it took care of your FBG number, if it might make
> you prone to hypos? Not having any experience, I don't know the answers,
> but wanted to throw out the questions. Hopefully, someone more
> knowledgeable than me will know.

I've also emailed one of my MDs asking for the name of a good endo. The
MD I'm asking is pretty savvy, so I trust his recommendations.

Priscilla

Michelle C wrote:
> "Priscilla H. Ballou" <vze23t8n@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:vze23t8n-1CED02.11030220052008@individual.net...
>> I was diagnosed type 2 in 2003 with a FBG of 130 -- just over the
>> diagnostic line. Initially I low-carbed fairly strenuously then got on
>> metformin, and I was doing very well for a few years until my body
>> stopped tolerating the metformin. After finally admitting that it was
>> the met that was causing the chronic diarrhea that was so negatively
>> impacting my quality of life, I went off it entirely. Periodically I
>> try going back on at a low dose, and the diarrhea and cramping returns
>> within 24 hours. I'd been having trouble staying a strict low-carber
>> before I went off the met, and now I'm off it for 8 months my FBGs
>> sometimes run in the 130-165 range. Not good. I can stay in the range
>> of 80-120 during the day if I stay away fairly strictly from carb-laden
>> food items and/or keep up my exercise, but that FBG scares me.
>>
>> I've been looking at my options. I'm increasing my exercise (it's
>> gardening season, and I'm looking forward to the arrival of a great bike
>> I ordered), but that's not enough. I hesitate to go on a beta
>> stimulator because a) I don't want to stress out my beta cells and b) I
>> don't want my meds to dictate my eating. Actos and Avandia are out due
>> to the recent discoveries about higher rates of heart problems with
>> them. Byetta doesn't sound like a lot of fun. So I thought, why not be
>> a little old-fashioned and try an insulin?
>>
>> So, here's my question: might a small amount of a background insulin
>> like Lantus help with my morning numbers and give me a little more
>> wiggle room during the day by keeping my pre-meal numbers a little
>> lower? I know I also need to go back to seeing a real endocrinologist.
>> My excellent one left the state two years ago, and I've been relying on
>> internist support, but at this point I don't think her knowledge of my
>> condition is sophisticated enough. She keeps pushing beta stimulators
>> even after I say I won't take them. I think she's working up to
>> labeling me non-compliant.
>>
>> Anyway, any information about using a background insulin without a bolus
>> would be helpful. Thanks!
>>
>> Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7
>
> Hi Priscilla,
>
> I agree with your reasoning on the meds. Fortunately, I'm not at the
> crossroads, but my mind has wandered down that path a few times and come up
> with very similar conclusions.
>
> However, it seems to me that your daytime numbers are just fine, and you are
> experiencing dawn phenomena. I'm wondering if insulin might actually
> exacerbate this? Or if it took care of your FBG number, if it might make
> you prone to hypos? Not having any experience, I don't know the answers,
> but wanted to throw out the questions. Hopefully, someone more
> knowledgeable than me will know.
Michelle, follow the link to the video that i posted on pubmed

there are 3 Endo's discussing the different approaches to treating type
2 and their reasons why they like their method

after watching this video, i sided with the Endo who felt that a low
dose of Lantus at bedtime was beneficial for type 2's

--
kate
type 1 since 1987
www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/n...diagnosed.html

Priscilla H. Ballou wrote:
> In article <69ghumF31cb5cU2@mid.individual.net>,
> Tiger_Lily <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>>> here is the 'blurb' that Lantus puts out for use of Lantus as a type 2
>>>> http://www.lantus.com/why_lantus/add...nation_therapy.
>>>> asp
>>>> x
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> then there is this interesting video link ( you have to sign up for
>>>> medscape but they don't spam you )
>>>>
>>>> Insulin Therapy of Diabetes: Pathophysiology and Indications CME
>>>>
>>>> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/563291
>>>>
>>>> this is an excellent overview of diabetes, and the diagnosis of it, and
>>>> the reasons why earlier insulin intervention might be a better way for
>>>> us to go, than to stick to the sulf meds and beat our reduced pancreatic
>>>> function to death (for type 2's)
>>> Thanks, Kate. I'll look at it when I get a spare moment.
>>>
>>> Priscilla
>> it took a while to watch the video...... i think it was 30 min or so !
>>
>> but i was impressed enough with the link that i bookmarked it
>
> That link gave me a written article, which I printed off to read on the
> bus.
>
> Priscilla
oh......... oops......... well, that's better to take to your Dr then

now, where is that video one???? it was really good too!

i'll keep looking

--
kate
type 1 since 1987
www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/n...diagnosed.html

In article <69glc5F30gpgbU1@mid.individual.net>,
Tiger_Lily <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> > However, it seems to me that your daytime numbers are just fine, and you
> > are
> > experiencing dawn phenomena. I'm wondering if insulin might actually
> > exacerbate this? Or if it took care of your FBG number, if it might make
> > you prone to hypos? Not having any experience, I don't know the answers,
> > but wanted to throw out the questions. Hopefully, someone more
> > knowledgeable than me will know.
> Michelle, follow the link to the video that i posted on pubmed
>
> there are 3 Endo's discussing the different approaches to treating type
> 2 and their reasons why they like their method
>
> after watching this video, i sided with the Endo who felt that a low
> dose of Lantus at bedtime was beneficial for type 2's

Yup. Just because it's dawn phenomenon doesn't mean I shouldn't do
something about it. ;-)

Priscilla, T2

On May 21, 12:31 am, "Priscilla H. Ballou" <vze23...@verizon.net>
wrote:
> In article <69glc5F30gpg...@mid.individual.net>,
>
> Tiger_Lily <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > > However, it seems to me that your daytime numbers are just fine, and you
> > > are
> > > experiencing dawn phenomena. I'm wondering if insulin might actually
> > > exacerbate this? Or if it took care of your FBG number, if it might make
> > > you prone to hypos? Not having any experience, I don't know the answers,
> > > but wanted to throw out the questions. Hopefully, someone more
> > > knowledgeable than me will know.
> > Michelle, follow the link to the video that i posted on pubmed
>
> > there are 3 Endo's discussing the different approaches to treating type
> > 2 and their reasons why they like their method
>
> > after watching this video, i sided with the Endo who felt that a low
> > dose of Lantus at bedtime was beneficial for type 2's
>
> Yup. Just because it's dawn phenomenon doesn't mean I shouldn't do
> something about it. ;-)
>
> Priscilla, T2

I was diagnosed type 2 diabetic last year, and was given medicine
Zolid, used for one month. After Reading the book Eat to live by Dr
Fuhrman I quited the medicine and all my blood sugar levels are within
the range. My HbA1c was 5.5 and now I am targeting 5. I have to change
me entire lifestyle which included eating low calorie high fiber diet,
avoiding sugar and sugary items, eating fresh ruits and vegetables,
increase the potassium intake bu eating bananas, dried apricots and
tomatoes and last but most important I walked for an hour , two hours
before the bedtime.

All this helped me to quit the medicine and now I am enjoying a
healthy life.
visit http://www.reddiabetes.com for more information.

Michelle C <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote:

: Hi Priscilla,

: I agree with your reasoning on the meds. Fortunately, I'm not at the
: crossroads, but my mind has wandered down that path a few times and come up
: with very similar conclusions.

: However, it seems to me that your daytime numbers are just fine, and you are
: experiencing dawn phenomena. I'm wondering if insulin might actually
: exacerbate this? Or if it took care of your FBG number, if it might make
: you prone to hypos? Not having any experience, I don't know the answers,
: but wanted to throw out the questions. Hopefully, someone more
: knowledgeable than me will know.
: --
: Best regards,

Priscilla,

As I mentioned in another thread, a SMALL dose of a sulph at bedtime can
work wonders with the fbg's. at least it did for me. Loretta also tok a
tiny dose(I believe hers was 1/2mg) while mine is 1, which is 1/4-1.8 of
the normal dose.

I have beenon this for quite few years now with no rise in bg's or Aic's
or other signs of a slowing pancreas. I am older than you , sothe long
range outlook may be different, but it is not the end f the world, or een
the nd of your pancreas in tiny amounts.

Wendy

"Tiger_Lily" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:69glc5F30gpgbU1@mid.individual.net...
> Michelle C wrote:
>> "Priscilla H. Ballou" <vze23t8n@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:vze23t8n-1CED02.11030220052008@individual.net...
>>> I was diagnosed type 2 in 2003 with a FBG of 130 -- just over the
>>> diagnostic line. Initially I low-carbed fairly strenuously then got on
>>> metformin, and I was doing very well for a few years until my body
>>> stopped tolerating the metformin. After finally admitting that it was
>>> the met that was causing the chronic diarrhea that was so negatively
>>> impacting my quality of life, I went off it entirely. Periodically I
>>> try going back on at a low dose, and the diarrhea and cramping returns
>>> within 24 hours. I'd been having trouble staying a strict low-carber
>>> before I went off the met, and now I'm off it for 8 months my FBGs
>>> sometimes run in the 130-165 range. Not good. I can stay in the range
>>> of 80-120 during the day if I stay away fairly strictly from carb-laden
>>> food items and/or keep up my exercise, but that FBG scares me.
>>>
>>> I've been looking at my options. I'm increasing my exercise (it's
>>> gardening season, and I'm looking forward to the arrival of a great bike
>>> I ordered), but that's not enough. I hesitate to go on a beta
>>> stimulator because a) I don't want to stress out my beta cells and b) I
>>> don't want my meds to dictate my eating. Actos and Avandia are out due
>>> to the recent discoveries about higher rates of heart problems with
>>> them. Byetta doesn't sound like a lot of fun. So I thought, why not be
>>> a little old-fashioned and try an insulin?
>>>
>>> So, here's my question: might a small amount of a background insulin
>>> like Lantus help with my morning numbers and give me a little more
>>> wiggle room during the day by keeping my pre-meal numbers a little
>>> lower? I know I also need to go back to seeing a real endocrinologist.
>>> My excellent one left the state two years ago, and I've been relying on
>>> internist support, but at this point I don't think her knowledge of my
>>> condition is sophisticated enough. She keeps pushing beta stimulators
>>> even after I say I won't take them. I think she's working up to
>>> labeling me non-compliant.
>>>
>>> Anyway, any information about using a background insulin without a bolus
>>> would be helpful. Thanks!
>>>
>>> Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7
>>
>> Hi Priscilla,
>>
>> I agree with your reasoning on the meds. Fortunately, I'm not at the
>> crossroads, but my mind has wandered down that path a few times and come
>> up with very similar conclusions.
>>
>> However, it seems to me that your daytime numbers are just fine, and you
>> are experiencing dawn phenomena. I'm wondering if insulin might actually
>> exacerbate this? Or if it took care of your FBG number, if it might make
>> you prone to hypos? Not having any experience, I don't know the answers,
>> but wanted to throw out the questions. Hopefully, someone more
>> knowledgeable than me will know.
> Michelle, follow the link to the video that i posted on pubmed
>
> there are 3 Endo's discussing the different approaches to treating type 2
> and their reasons why they like their method
>
> after watching this video, i sided with the Endo who felt that a low dose
> of Lantus at bedtime was beneficial for type 2's
>
> --
> kate
> type 1 since 1987
> www.diabetic-talk.org
> http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/n...diagnosed.html

Thanks Kate! I'll have a look.
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5

Hi Priscilla:
>
> I've been looking at my options.
>
> Anyway, any information about using a background insulin without a bolus
> would be helpful. Thanks!
>
> Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7

I started off using 5 units of Ultralente at bedtime. I averaged 87
mg/dl for 12 month while also using 500 mg of metformin.

Another possibility that you did not mention is Januvia. It is weight
neutral and it does not cause nausea. It should help with postprandial
control, but it would not reduce your A1c very much. Maybe an A1c
reduction of .2 to .4 %. Women generally have higher levels of GLP-1
than men. Januvia would inhibit DPP4, the enzyme that changes GLP-1 to
it's inactive form.

Frank

On Tue, 20 May 2008 11:03:02 -0400, "Priscilla H. Ballou"
<vze23t8n@verizon.net> wrote:

>I was diagnosed type 2 in 2003 with a FBG of 130 -- just over the
>diagnostic line. *Initially I low-carbed fairly strenuously then got on
>metformin, and I was doing very well for a few years until my body
>stopped tolerating the metformin. *After finally admitting that it was
>the met that was causing the chronic diarrhea that was so negatively
>impacting my quality of life, I went off it entirely. *Periodically I
>try going back on at a low dose, and the diarrhea and cramping returns
>within 24 hours. *I'd been having trouble staying a strict low-carber
>before I went off the met, and now I'm off it for 8 months my FBGs
>sometimes run in the 130-165 range. *Not good. *I can stay in the range
>of 80-120 during the day if I stay away fairly strictly from carb-laden
>food items and/or keep up my exercise, but that FBG scares me.
>
>I've been looking at my options. *I'm increasing my exercise (it's
>gardening season, and I'm looking forward to the arrival of a great bike
>I ordered), but that's not enough. *I hesitate to go on a beta
>stimulator because a) I don't want to stress out my beta cells and b) I
>don't want my meds to dictate my eating. *Actos and Avandia are out due
>to the recent discoveries about higher rates of heart problems with
>them. *Byetta doesn't sound like a lot of fun. *So I thought, why not be
>a little old-fashioned and try an insulin? *
>
>So, here's my question: *might a small amount of a background insulin
>like Lantus help with my morning numbers and give me a little more
>wiggle room during the day by keeping my pre-meal numbers a little
>lower? *I know I also need to go back to seeing a real endocrinologist.
>My excellent one left the state two years ago, and I've been relying on
>internist support, but at this point I don't think her knowledge of my
>condition is sophisticated enough. *She keeps pushing beta stimulators
>even after I say I won't take them. *I think she's working up to
>labeling me non-compliant. *
>
>Anyway, any information about using a background insulin without a bolus
>would be helpful. *Thanks!
>
>Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7

Henry (hemyd) did what you are considering for similar
reasons and appears to have succeeded very well. He has time
limitations so sometimes only appears on mhd. It may be
worth repeating this over there.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

In article <Uu2dnfl8Y-nKya7VnZ2dnUVZ_rvinZ2d@comcast.com>,
Jefferson <Jefferson@comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi Priscilla:
> >
> > I've been looking at my options.
> >
> > Anyway, any information about using a background insulin without a bolus
> > would be helpful. Thanks!
> >
> > Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7
>
> I started off using 5 units of Ultralente at bedtime. I averaged 87
> mg/dl for 12 month while also using 500 mg of metformin.
>
> Another possibility that you did not mention is Januvia. It is weight
> neutral and it does not cause nausea. It should help with postprandial
> control, but it would not reduce your A1c very much. Maybe an A1c
> reduction of .2 to .4 %. Women generally have higher levels of GLP-1
> than men. Januvia would inhibit DPP4, the enzyme that changes GLP-1 to
> it's inactive form.

Thanks. I had forgotten about Januvia. I really need a good endo!

Priscilla

Michelle C wrote:
> "Tiger_Lily" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:69glc5F30gpgbU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Michelle C wrote:
>>> "Priscilla H. Ballou" <vze23t8n@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>> news:vze23t8n-1CED02.11030220052008@individual.net...
>>>> I was diagnosed type 2 in 2003 with a FBG of 130 -- just over the
>>>> diagnostic line. Initially I low-carbed fairly strenuously then got on
>>>> metformin, and I was doing very well for a few years until my body
>>>> stopped tolerating the metformin. After finally admitting that it was
>>>> the met that was causing the chronic diarrhea that was so negatively
>>>> impacting my quality of life, I went off it entirely. Periodically I
>>>> try going back on at a low dose, and the diarrhea and cramping returns
>>>> within 24 hours. I'd been having trouble staying a strict low-carber
>>>> before I went off the met, and now I'm off it for 8 months my FBGs
>>>> sometimes run in the 130-165 range. Not good. I can stay in the range
>>>> of 80-120 during the day if I stay away fairly strictly from carb-laden
>>>> food items and/or keep up my exercise, but that FBG scares me.
>>>>
>>>> I've been looking at my options. I'm increasing my exercise (it's
>>>> gardening season, and I'm looking forward to the arrival of a great bike
>>>> I ordered), but that's not enough. I hesitate to go on a beta
>>>> stimulator because a) I don't want to stress out my beta cells and b) I
>>>> don't want my meds to dictate my eating. Actos and Avandia are out due
>>>> to the recent discoveries about higher rates of heart problems with
>>>> them. Byetta doesn't sound like a lot of fun. So I thought, why not be
>>>> a little old-fashioned and try an insulin?
>>>>
>>>> So, here's my question: might a small amount of a background insulin
>>>> like Lantus help with my morning numbers and give me a little more
>>>> wiggle room during the day by keeping my pre-meal numbers a little
>>>> lower? I know I also need to go back to seeing a real endocrinologist.
>>>> My excellent one left the state two years ago, and I've been relying on
>>>> internist support, but at this point I don't think her knowledge of my
>>>> condition is sophisticated enough. She keeps pushing beta stimulators
>>>> even after I say I won't take them. I think she's working up to
>>>> labeling me non-compliant.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, any information about using a background insulin without a bolus
>>>> would be helpful. Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7
>>> Hi Priscilla,
>>>
>>> I agree with your reasoning on the meds. Fortunately, I'm not at the
>>> crossroads, but my mind has wandered down that path a few times and come
>>> up with very similar conclusions.
>>>
>>> However, it seems to me that your daytime numbers are just fine, and you
>>> are experiencing dawn phenomena. I'm wondering if insulin might actually
>>> exacerbate this? Or if it took care of your FBG number, if it might make
>>> you prone to hypos? Not having any experience, I don't know the answers,
>>> but wanted to throw out the questions. Hopefully, someone more
>>> knowledgeable than me will know.
>> Michelle, follow the link to the video that i posted on pubmed
>>
>> there are 3 Endo's discussing the different approaches to treating type 2
>> and their reasons why they like their method
>>
>> after watching this video, i sided with the Endo who felt that a low dose
>> of Lantus at bedtime was beneficial for type 2's
>>
>> --
>> kate
>> type 1 since 1987
>> www.diabetic-talk.org
>> http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/n...diagnosed.html
>
> Thanks Kate! I'll have a look.
sorry, Michelle, it's not the video i'm looking for........ but it's a
written document, that has good info in it (i hope)

--
kate
type 1 since 1987
www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/n...diagnosed.html

Jefferson wrote:
> Hi Priscilla:
>>
>> I've been looking at my options.
>> Anyway, any information about using a background insulin without a
>> bolus would be helpful. Thanks!
>>
>> Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7
>
> I started off using 5 units of Ultralente at bedtime. I averaged 87
> mg/dl for 12 month while also using 500 mg of metformin.
>
> Another possibility that you did not mention is Januvia. It is weight
> neutral and it does not cause nausea. It should help with postprandial
> control, but it would not reduce your A1c very much. Maybe an A1c
> reduction of .2 to .4 %. Women generally have higher levels of GLP-1
> than men. Januvia would inhibit DPP4, the enzyme that changes GLP-1 to
> it's inactive form.
>
> Frank
Januvia, Symlin and ....... oh.......... another one........ aren't
available in Canada yet

hopefully soon

--
kate
type 1 since 1987
www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/n...diagnosed.html

Tiger_Lily wrote:
> Jefferson wrote:
>> Hi Priscilla:
>>>
>>> I've been looking at my options. Anyway, any information about using
>>> a background insulin without a bolus would be helpful. Thanks!
>>>
>>> Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7
>>
>> I started off using 5 units of Ultralente at bedtime. I averaged 87
>> mg/dl for 12 month while also using 500 mg of metformin.
>>
>> Another possibility that you did not mention is Januvia. It is weight
>> neutral and it does not cause nausea. It should help with postprandial
>> control, but it would not reduce your A1c very much. Maybe an A1c
>> reduction of .2 to .4 %. Women generally have higher levels of GLP-1
>> than men. Januvia would inhibit DPP4, the enzyme that changes GLP-1 to
>> it's inactive form.
>>
>> Frank
> Januvia, Symlin and ....... oh.......... another one........ aren't
> available in Canada yet
>
> hopefully soon
>
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/prodp..._103039_e.html

Date issued February 5, 2008

NOTICE OF DECISION for PrJANUVIA™
On December 14, 2007, Health Canada issued a Notice of Compliance to
Merck Frosst Canada Ltd. for the drug product Januvia™.



--
kate
type 1 since 1987
www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/n...diagnosed.html

Tiger_Lily wrote:
> Tiger_Lily wrote:
>> Jefferson wrote:
>>> Hi Priscilla:
>>>>
>>>> I've been looking at my options. Anyway, any information about using
>>>> a background insulin without a bolus would be helpful. Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7
>>>
>>> I started off using 5 units of Ultralente at bedtime. I averaged 87
>>> mg/dl for 12 month while also using 500 mg of metformin.
>>>
>>> Another possibility that you did not mention is Januvia. It is weight
>>> neutral and it does not cause nausea. It should help with
>>> postprandial control, but it would not reduce your A1c very much.
>>> Maybe an A1c reduction of .2 to .4 %. Women generally have higher
>>> levels of GLP-1 than men. Januvia would inhibit DPP4, the enzyme that
>>> changes GLP-1 to it's inactive form.
>>>
>>> Frank
>> Januvia, Symlin and ....... oh.......... another one........ aren't
>> available in Canada yet
>>
>> hopefully soon
>>
> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/prodp..._103039_e.html
>
>
> Date issued February 5, 2008
>
> NOTICE OF DECISION for PrJANUVIA™
> On December 14, 2007, Health Canada issued a Notice of Compliance to
> Merck Frosst Canada Ltd. for the drug product Januvia™.
>
>
>
can't find Symlin in Canada yet......... lots of people asking WHEN will
we get it, but no info on it being released in Canada

--
kate
type 1 since 1987
www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/n...diagnosed.html

"Jefferson" <Jefferson@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Uu2dnfl8Y-nKya7VnZ2dnUVZ_rvinZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> Another possibility that you did not mention is Januvia. It is weight
> neutral and it does not cause nausea. It should help with postprandial
> control, but it would not reduce your A1c very much. Maybe an A1c
> reduction of .2 to .4 %. Women generally have higher levels of GLP-1 than
> men. Januvia would inhibit DPP4, the enzyme that changes GLP-1 to it's
> inactive form.
>

I love my Januvia! FBG has never been my problem (once I took control after
dx) so the pp effect is welcome & just what I need. I still have to be
careful about what I eat, but I can eat a whole meal with its carbs at once
instead of spreading it out into "snacks". It's had little effect on my
already satisfactory A1c, but it has made life easier than either the d&e
alone or the Prandin that I took for a few years. I've never had any side
effects from it. And no heading-for-lows as sometimes happened with Prandin.
I can almost feel like I'm not diabetic -- I still test (though not as often
as before) & log my food, exercise, & other "how am I" notes.

It is, however, expensive (but "I'm worth it" as those hair-color ads
say...).
bj

"Tiger_Lily" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:69hidhF2u8f53U2@mid.individual.net...
> Michelle C wrote:
>> "Tiger_Lily" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:69glc5F30gpgbU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Michelle C wrote:
>>>> "Priscilla H. Ballou" <vze23t8n@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:vze23t8n-1CED02.11030220052008@individual.net...
>>>>> I was diagnosed type 2 in 2003 with a FBG of 130 -- just over the
>>>>> diagnostic line. Initially I low-carbed fairly strenuously then got on
>>>>> metformin, and I was doing very well for a few years until my body
>>>>> stopped tolerating the metformin. After finally admitting that it was
>>>>> the met that was causing the chronic diarrhea that was so negatively
>>>>> impacting my quality of life, I went off it entirely. Periodically I
>>>>> try going back on at a low dose, and the diarrhea and cramping returns
>>>>> within 24 hours. I'd been having trouble staying a strict low-carber
>>>>> before I went off the met, and now I'm off it for 8 months my FBGs
>>>>> sometimes run in the 130-165 range. Not good. I can stay in the range
>>>>> of 80-120 during the day if I stay away fairly strictly from
>>>>> carb-laden
>>>>> food items and/or keep up my exercise, but that FBG scares me.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been looking at my options. I'm increasing my exercise (it's
>>>>> gardening season, and I'm looking forward to the arrival of a great
>>>>> bike
>>>>> I ordered), but that's not enough. I hesitate to go on a beta
>>>>> stimulator because a) I don't want to stress out my beta cells and b)
>>>>> I
>>>>> don't want my meds to dictate my eating. Actos and Avandia are out due
>>>>> to the recent discoveries about higher rates of heart problems with
>>>>> them. Byetta doesn't sound like a lot of fun. So I thought, why not be
>>>>> a little old-fashioned and try an insulin?
>>>>>
>>>>> So, here's my question: might a small amount of a background insulin
>>>>> like Lantus help with my morning numbers and give me a little more
>>>>> wiggle room during the day by keeping my pre-meal numbers a little
>>>>> lower? I know I also need to go back to seeing a real endocrinologist.
>>>>> My excellent one left the state two years ago, and I've been relying
>>>>> on
>>>>> internist support, but at this point I don't think her knowledge of my
>>>>> condition is sophisticated enough. She keeps pushing beta stimulators
>>>>> even after I say I won't take them. I think she's working up to
>>>>> labeling me non-compliant.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, any information about using a background insulin without a
>>>>> bolus
>>>>> would be helpful. Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7
>>>> Hi Priscilla,
>>>>
>>>> I agree with your reasoning on the meds. Fortunately, I'm not at the
>>>> crossroads, but my mind has wandered down that path a few times and
>>>> come up with very similar conclusions.
>>>>
>>>> However, it seems to me that your daytime numbers are just fine, and
>>>> you are experiencing dawn phenomena. I'm wondering if insulin might
>>>> actually exacerbate this? Or if it took care of your FBG number, if it
>>>> might make you prone to hypos? Not having any experience, I don't know
>>>> the answers, but wanted to throw out the questions. Hopefully, someone
>>>> more knowledgeable than me will know.
>>> Michelle, follow the link to the video that i posted on pubmed
>>>
>>> there are 3 Endo's discussing the different approaches to treating type
>>> 2 and their reasons why they like their method
>>>
>>> after watching this video, i sided with the Endo who felt that a low
>>> dose of Lantus at bedtime was beneficial for type 2's
>>>
>>> --
>>> kate
>>> type 1 since 1987
>>> www.diabetic-talk.org
>>> http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/n...diagnosed.html
>>
>> Thanks Kate! I'll have a look.
> sorry, Michelle, it's not the video i'm looking for........ but it's a
> written document, that has good info in it (i hope)
>
> --
> kate
> type 1 since 1987
> www.diabetic-talk.org
> http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/n...diagnosed.html

Hi Kate,

I've already begun reading it. Didn't get it done since it's long, but I've
saved it on my hard drive for later
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5.

"Priscilla H. Ballou" <vze23t8n@verizon.net> wrote in news:vze23t8n-
1CED02.11030220052008@individual.net:

> I was diagnosed type 2 in 2003 with a FBG of 130 -- just over the
> diagnostic line. *Initially I low-carbed fairly strenuously then got on
> metformin, and I was doing very well for a few years until my body
> stopped tolerating the metformin. *After finally admitting that it was
> the met that was causing the chronic diarrhea that was so negatively
> impacting my quality of life, I went off it entirely. *Periodically I
> try going back on at a low dose, and the diarrhea and cramping returns
> within 24 hours. *I'd been having trouble staying a strict low-carber
> before I went off the met, and now I'm off it for 8 months my FBGs
> sometimes run in the 130-165 range. *Not good. *I can stay in the range
> of 80-120 during the day if I stay away fairly strictly from carb-laden
> food items and/or keep up my exercise, but that FBG scares me.
>
> I've been looking at my options. *I'm increasing my exercise (it's
> gardening season, and I'm looking forward to the arrival of a great
bike
> I ordered), but that's not enough. *I hesitate to go on a beta
> stimulator because a) I don't want to stress out my beta cells and b) I
> don't want my meds to dictate my eating. *Actos and Avandia are out due
> to the recent discoveries about higher rates of heart problems with
> them. *Byetta doesn't sound like a lot of fun. *So I thought, why not
be
> a little old-fashioned and try an insulin? *
>
> So, here's my question: *might a small amount of a background insulin
> like Lantus help with my morning numbers and give me a little more
> wiggle room during the day by keeping my pre-meal numbers a little
> lower? *I know I also need to go back to seeing a real endocrinologist.
> My excellent one left the state two years ago, and I've been relying on
> internist support, but at this point I don't think her knowledge of my
> condition is sophisticated enough. *She keeps pushing beta stimulators
> even after I say I won't take them. *I think she's working up to
> labeling me non-compliant. *
>
> Anyway, any information about using a background insulin without a
bolus
> would be helpful. *Thanks!
>
> Priscilla, T2, diet & exercise, last A1c 5.7

Hi Priscilla,

I'm on vacation and thought I'd drop by. Well kinda a vacation - I only
had to work half of this weekend

I'm still using Lantus and Novolog - just 18 units of Lantus (I almost
never need the Novolog), along exercising and watching my diet. My last
A1c was 4.7. I feel great 99% of the time. I started with insulin and I'm
sticking with it because it is freeing to know that I can control my
numbers instead of them controling me and I can control them very
quickly. Now days I use the Novolog for illness or if I just feel like
splurging with some carbs.

There are times once in a blue moon when I lose control and get to 200
and I just wack it with 20 units of Novolog and drop it down quickly
before it effects me much.

But most of the time the normal day to day routine and some exercise acts
as my 'bolis'.

Every doc since I left my first endo tried to get me to try some pill
and I flatly refused because insulin is working great and it has no side
effects.

But each to their own.

Good to see some of the familiar names again.

Gene (Chief)
T2, insulin, A1c 4.7




--
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much
liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas
Jefferson

"History is earmarked by the successes of liberals and mistakes of
conservatives." - ETG