Long vs short needle?

270lb, 55yrs, with most fat in the gut. Have used both long and short
sharps along the stomach. I suspect the short is not clearing a zone of
tissue near the surface causing my 60 unit dose to "burn" as it backs up in
the tissue before slowly disbursing. Don't recall that when I ran through
a box of longer sharps. I switched to short sharps thinking short was
likely to be more comfortable, but suspect otherwise. Just started
insulin 6 months ago. Is the needle length solely based on preference, or
is it better based on location? Is longer better for a non-beer beer
belly injection?

Greybeard wrote in message ...
>270lb, 55yrs, with most fat in the gut. Have used both long and short
>sharps along the stomach. I suspect the short is not clearing a zone of
>tissue near the surface causing my 60 unit dose to "burn" as it backs up in
>the tissue before slowly disbursing. Don't recall that when I ran
through
>a box of longer sharps. I switched to short sharps thinking short was
>likely to be more comfortable, but suspect otherwise. Just started
>insulin 6 months ago. Is the needle length solely based on preference,
or
>is it better based on location? Is longer better for a non-beer beer
>belly injection?
>
>

That's what I heard. Thicker layer of fat needs longer needles.

FWIW, I shoot my basal into my thighs to slow it down (slower is better
for a basal). I have a "thinner" fat layer there.
I shoot my bolus into my abdominal fat to speed it up (faster is better for
a bolus)

Regards
Old Al

Regards
Old Al

Hi Al

Question on your Basal and Bolus sites?
I do just the opposite. Basal in Abdomen and Bolus in thigh. I do much
walking and thought the leg movement would speed up my Lantus absorption.
What do you think about this thought?? Thanks, Larry
"oldal4865" <oldal4865@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4q69idFlojeqU1@individual.net...
>
> Greybeard wrote in message ...
>>270lb, 55yrs, with most fat in the gut. Have used both long and short
>>sharps along the stomach. I suspect the short is not clearing a zone of
>>tissue near the surface causing my 60 unit dose to "burn" as it backs up
>>in
>>the tissue before slowly disbursing. Don't recall that when I ran
> through
>>a box of longer sharps. I switched to short sharps thinking short was
>>likely to be more comfortable, but suspect otherwise. Just started
>>insulin 6 months ago. Is the needle length solely based on preference,
> or
>>is it better based on location? Is longer better for a non-beer beer
>>belly injection?
>>
>>
>
> That's what I heard. Thicker layer of fat needs longer needles.
>
> FWIW, I shoot my basal into my thighs to slow it down (slower is
> better
> for a basal). I have a "thinner" fat layer there.
> I shoot my bolus into my abdominal fat to speed it up (faster is better
> for
> a bolus)
>
> Regards
> Old Al
>
> Regards
> Old Al
>
>

Larry from N.J. wrote:
> I do just the opposite. Basal in Abdomen and Bolus in thigh. I do much
> walking and thought the leg movement would speed up my Lantus absorption.
> What do you think about this thought?? Thanks, Larry

Belly-shooting for me is always the fastest.

Exercise seems to increase absorption rate no matter what part I'm
exercising.

But... in general I try to slow down and even out my Lantus, so in the
end I do the same thing you do, but for oppositte reasons!

Tim.

Larry from N.J. wrote in message ...
>Hi Al
>
>Question on your Basal and Bolus sites?
>I do just the opposite. Basal in Abdomen and Bolus in thigh. I do much
>walking and thought the leg movement would speed up my Lantus absorption.
>What do you think about this thought?? Thanks, Larry

Never heard that walking would speed absorption. Did hear that massage
and/or hot bath would.

During my training they did warn us that abdomen was fast, thigh,
"back-of-arm", and buttocks were slower in that order. However, the one
time I tried buttock I hit muscle and got the fastest basal I ever saw.
Never tried that again.

Regards
Old Al

Thanks for these replies.

I have not heard the terms Basal and Bolus, so that explains my primary care
HMO doctor's diabetes care. Will go back to long needles and try again, as
I only inject in the fatty tissue of the abdomen. I'm not that fatty
anywhere else. Not worried about the speed of absorbtion over time vs type
of insulin issue. Mainly care about the immediate site absorbtion factor on
injection, as I experience physical site pressure build-up and sharp burn
sensation for a few seconds each time I depress the syringe 10 - 20 units.
Have to wait for the 10 - 20 units to disburse from the site before pushing
10 - 20 units more in, then wait again. Maybe deeper will enter an area
with less nerves to complain, or a more permiable layer capable of absorbing
more units quicker without the back-up.
John

"oldal4865" <oldal4865@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4q784nFlhmekU1@individual.net...
>
> Larry from N.J. wrote in message ...
>>Hi Al
>>
>>Question on your Basal and Bolus sites?
>>I do just the opposite. Basal in Abdomen and Bolus in thigh. I do much
>>walking and thought the leg movement would speed up my Lantus absorption.
>>What do you think about this thought?? Thanks, Larry
>
> Never heard that walking would speed absorption. Did hear that
> massage
> and/or hot bath would.
>
> During my training they did warn us that abdomen was fast, thigh,
> "back-of-arm", and buttocks were slower in that order. However, the
> one
> time I tried buttock I hit muscle and got the fastest basal I ever saw.
> Never tried that again.
>
> Regards
> Old Al
>
>
>

Greybeard wrote:
> Thanks for these replies.
>
> I have not heard the terms Basal and Bolus, so that explains my primary care
> HMO doctor's diabetes care. Will go back to long needles and try again, as
> I only inject in the fatty tissue of the abdomen. I'm not that fatty
> anywhere else. Not worried about the speed of absorbtion over time vs type
> of insulin issue. Mainly care about the immediate site absorbtion factor on
> injection, as I experience physical site pressure build-up and sharp burn
> sensation for a few seconds each time I depress the syringe 10 - 20 units.
> Have to wait for the 10 - 20 units to disburse from the site before pushing
> 10 - 20 units more in, then wait again. Maybe deeper will enter an area
> with less nerves to complain, or a more permiable layer capable of absorbing
> more units quicker without the back-up.

One suggestion you might take up with your doctor if this sounds
amenable:

Many insulin therapies over the past decades have emphasized splitting
up doses between multiple shots spread throughout 24 hours, rather than
a giant monster one taken all at once. The introduction of Lantus etc.
has reversed that trend and now we're going back to single monster
doses for some people. But... it doesn't have to be that way, and they
can be spread out.

25 years ago one of my two shots a day was about 40 units, and I think
I experienced what you describe. Since then I've gone to MDI (now at 5
shots a day) and none of them are more than 10 or 11 units. Two of them
(12 hours apart) are Lantus, as I find I get more regular absorption
from a single shot.

Tim.

Greybeard wrote in message ...
>Thanks for these replies.
>
>I have not heard the terms Basal and Bolus, so that explains my primary
care
>HMO doctor's diabetes care. Will go back to long needles and try again,
as
>I only inject in the fatty tissue of the abdomen. I'm not that fatty
>anywhere else. Not worried about the speed of absorbtion over time vs
type
>of insulin issue. Mainly care about the immediate site absorbtion factor
on
>injection, as I experience physical site pressure build-up and sharp burn
>sensation for a few seconds each time I depress the syringe 10 - 20 units.
>Have to wait for the 10 - 20 units to disburse from the site before pushing
>10 - 20 units more in, then wait again. Maybe deeper will enter an area
>with less nerves to complain, or a more permiable layer capable of
absorbing
>more units quicker without the back-up.
>John
>

Basal refers to a slow insulin which handles your basal metabolism
needs. Examples are Lantus, Levemir and NPH (Insulin N)

Bolus refers to a fast insulin which handles a meal. Examples are
Novolog, Humalog, Apidra, NovoRapid, and "Regular' (Insulin R)

Slow is better for a basal. You want it to last as long as possible.
That's why my accidental muscle shot was so inappropriate. I used 10 hours
worth of insulin in 2 hours.

Fast is better for a bolus because you shoot before a meal and you want it
to trickle into your blood about as fast as the meal digests.

In any case, you don't want to shoot consumer insulin directly into a vein
or muscle because it is too concentrated for that kind of use and can damage
tissue. When the docs inject into a vein, the recipes I saw call for
diluting consumer insulin by a factor of 100.

Regards
Old Al

Out there Al??
We discussed the areas of our injections the other day and I was doing my
"Bolus" in my Thighs and Basal in my Abdo.

I was in for my 4 Month visit to my Endo yest and I talked to him about
switching my Lantus to my thigh for slow absortion and using my Tummy for my
Novolog and he said great Idea! You're learning more than me. So thanks
Al., I am going to give it a try and it makes sense!! Thanks for the info
"oldal4865" <oldal4865@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4qab5gFma0e2U1@individual.net...
>
> Greybeard wrote in message ...
>>Thanks for these replies.
>>
>>I have not heard the terms Basal and Bolus, so that explains my primary
> care
>>HMO doctor's diabetes care. Will go back to long needles and try again,
> as
>>I only inject in the fatty tissue of the abdomen. I'm not that fatty
>>anywhere else. Not worried about the speed of absorbtion over time vs
> type
>>of insulin issue. Mainly care about the immediate site absorbtion factor
> on
>>injection, as I experience physical site pressure build-up and sharp burn
>>sensation for a few seconds each time I depress the syringe 10 - 20 units.
>>Have to wait for the 10 - 20 units to disburse from the site before
>>pushing
>>10 - 20 units more in, then wait again. Maybe deeper will enter an area
>>with less nerves to complain, or a more permiable layer capable of
> absorbing
>>more units quicker without the back-up.
>>John
>>
>
> Basal refers to a slow insulin which handles your basal metabolism
> needs. Examples are Lantus, Levemir and NPH (Insulin N)
>
> Bolus refers to a fast insulin which handles a meal. Examples are
> Novolog, Humalog, Apidra, NovoRapid, and "Regular' (Insulin R)
>
> Slow is better for a basal. You want it to last as long as possible.
> That's why my accidental muscle shot was so inappropriate. I used 10
> hours
> worth of insulin in 2 hours.
>
> Fast is better for a bolus because you shoot before a meal and you want it
> to trickle into your blood about as fast as the meal digests.
>
> In any case, you don't want to shoot consumer insulin directly into a
> vein
> or muscle because it is too concentrated for that kind of use and can
> damage
> tissue. When the docs inject into a vein, the recipes I saw call for
> diluting consumer insulin by a factor of 100.
>
> Regards
> Old Al
>
>