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  #1  
Old 08-03-2007, 10:20 AM
GysdeJongh
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Default Low carb is better because then the brain does knows that you have eaten something

This article concludes that only if T2D your brain will not signal that you
eat glucose or any other carbohydrate (?) , so you keep eating , so you get
more problems.So low carb is better (?)

They tested Glucose itself , one wonders if it works the same for any
carbohydrate.I think it should because any carb is converted to glucose
within a few minutes when ingested.So If T2D a low carb meal is much more
satiating a fact demonstrated before in the literature

The article is so new that the citation below is not yet in Pubmed ; please
wait a few days for it to appear

Diabetes. 2007 Aug 1; [Epub ahead of print]
Glucose ingestion fails to inhibit hypothalamic neuronal activity in
patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus.Vidarsdottir S, Smeets PA,
Eichelsheim DL, van Osch MJ, Viergever MA, Romijn JA, van der Grond J, Pijl
H.
Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Leiden University Medical
Center, Leiden, The Netherlands.

Objective: The hypothalamus plays a critical role in the regulation of
energy balance and fuel flux. Glucose ingestion inhibits hypothalamic
neuronal activity in healthy humans. We hypothesized that hypothalamic
neuronal activity in response to an oral glucose load would be altered in
patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus. Research Design and Methods: In this
randomized, single blind, case-control study, 7 male patients with type 2
diabetes mellitus (BMI 27.9 +/- 2.0 kg/m(2)) and 10 healthy (BMI 26.1 +/-
3.2 kg/m(2)), age-matched men participated. Subjects were scanned twice for
38 minutes on separate days, using functional magnetic resonance imaging.
After 8 min, they ingested either a glucose solution (75 g in 300 mL water)
or water (300 mL). Results: Glucose ingestion resulted in a prolonged
significant blood oxygen level dependent (BOLD) signal decrease in the upper
and lower hypothalamus in healthy men, but not in patients with diabetes.
Conclusions: Glucose ingestion fails to inhibit hypothalamic neuronal
activity in patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus. Failure of neural
circuits to properly adapt to nutrient ingestion may contribute to metabolic
imbalance in DM2 patients.

PMID: 17670916

hth
Gys


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  #2  
Old 08-03-2007, 08:19 PM
Jim Chinnis
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Default Re: Low carb is better because then the brain does knows that you have eaten something

"GysdeJongh" <jongh711@planet.nl> wrote in part:

>This article concludes that only if T2D your brain will not signal that you
>eat glucose or any other carbohydrate (?) , so you keep eating , so you get
>more problems.So low carb is better (?)
>
>They tested Glucose itself , one wonders if it works the same for any
>carbohydrate.I think it should because any carb is converted to glucose
>within a few minutes when ingested.So If T2D a low carb meal is much more
>satiating a fact demonstrated before in the literature
>
>The article is so new that the citation below is not yet in Pubmed ; please
>wait a few days for it to appear
>
>Diabetes. 2007 Aug 1; [Epub ahead of print]
>Glucose ingestion fails to inhibit hypothalamic neuronal activity in
>patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus.Vidarsdottir S, Smeets PA,
>Eichelsheim DL, van Osch MJ, Viergever MA, Romijn JA, van der Grond J, Pijl
>H.
>Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Leiden University Medical
>Center, Leiden, The Netherlands.
>
>Objective: The hypothalamus plays a critical role in the regulation of
>energy balance and fuel flux. Glucose ingestion inhibits hypothalamic
>neuronal activity in healthy humans. We hypothesized that hypothalamic
>neuronal activity in response to an oral glucose load would be altered in
>patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus. Research Design and Methods: In this
>randomized, single blind, case-control study, 7 male patients with type 2
>diabetes mellitus (BMI 27.9 +/- 2.0 kg/m(2)) and 10 healthy (BMI 26.1 +/-
>3.2 kg/m(2)), age-matched men participated. Subjects were scanned twice for
>38 minutes on separate days, using functional magnetic resonance imaging.
>After 8 min, they ingested either a glucose solution (75 g in 300 mL water)
>or water (300 mL). Results: Glucose ingestion resulted in a prolonged
>significant blood oxygen level dependent (BOLD) signal decrease in the upper
>and lower hypothalamus in healthy men, but not in patients with diabetes.
>Conclusions: Glucose ingestion fails to inhibit hypothalamic neuronal
>activity in patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus. Failure of neural
>circuits to properly adapt to nutrient ingestion may contribute to metabolic
>imbalance in DM2 patients.
>
>PMID: 17670916
>
>hth
>Gys


Very, very interesting. Does the hypothalamus respond with inhibited firing
to glucose or to insulin? I assume the former, but I'm a novice in this
area.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2007, 08:19 PM
Jim Chinnis
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Default Re: Low carb is better because then the brain does knows that you have eaten something

Jim Chinnis <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in part:

>Very, very interesting. Does the hypothalamus respond with inhibited firing
>to glucose or to insulin? I assume the former, but I'm a novice in this
>area.


Sorry. It obviously says the response is to blood oxygen. So how does blood
oxygen change from the ingestion of glucose?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
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  #4  
Old 08-03-2007, 08:19 PM
bj
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Default Re: Low carb is better because then the brain does knows that you have eaten something

> "GysdeJongh" <jongh711@planet.nl> wrote in part:
>
>>This article concludes that only if T2D your brain will not signal that
>>you eat glucose or any other carbohydrate (?) , so you keep eating , so
>>you get more problems.So low carb is better (?)
>>


I know I'm peculiar....I mean, "eccentric", I think I'm old enough to say
that now :-).... but I didn't think I was quite off the wall.

My brain seems to know quite well when I've eaten even if it's very much not
low carb.
bj



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  #5  
Old 08-03-2007, 08:19 PM
Nicky
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Default Re: Low carb is better because then the brain does knows that you have eaten something

On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:06:00 GMT, "bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net>
wrote:

>> "GysdeJongh" <jongh711@planet.nl> wrote in part:
>>
>>>This article concludes that only if T2D your brain will not signal that
>>>you eat glucose or any other carbohydrate (?) , so you keep eating , so
>>>you get more problems.So low carb is better (?)
>>>

>
>I know I'm peculiar....I mean, "eccentric", I think I'm old enough to say
>that now :-).... but I didn't think I was quite off the wall.
>
>My brain seems to know quite well when I've eaten even if it's very much not
>low carb.


You're lucky, BJ. I used to figure out whether or not I'd had enough
by what portion size I had. I never felt any different before or after
a meal, I could be hungry half an hour after eating... that meant that
all my cues were social ones.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25
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  #6  
Old 08-03-2007, 08:19 PM
bj
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low carb is better because then the brain does knows that you have eaten something

"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:rpr6b31nioj6a0q9j84bde73l0kemqg0g9@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:06:00 GMT, "bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> "GysdeJongh" <jongh711@planet.nl> wrote in part:
>>>
>>>>This article concludes that only if T2D your brain will not signal that
>>>>you eat glucose or any other carbohydrate (?) , so you keep eating , so
>>>>you get more problems.So low carb is better (?)
>>>>

>>
>>I know I'm peculiar....I mean, "eccentric", I think I'm old enough to say
>>that now :-).... but I didn't think I was quite off the wall.
>>
>>My brain seems to know quite well when I've eaten even if it's very much
>>not
>>low carb.

>
> You're lucky, BJ. I used to figure out whether or not I'd had enough
> by what portion size I had. I never felt any different before or after
> a meal, I could be hungry half an hour after eating... that meant that
> all my cues were social ones.
>


My brain is also quite capable of *consciously ignoring* the signals (I'm
enjoying the <whatever> too much, it's tasty, etc.) -- why I got so
overweight years ago -- i.e. "weak as water" as Mrs. Slocumb would say.
I mostly manage not to do that anymore.
bj



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  #7  
Old 08-04-2007, 09:47 AM
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low carb is better because then the brain does knows that you have eaten something

GysdeJongh wrote:
> This article concludes that only if T2D your brain will not signal that you
> eat glucose or any other carbohydrate (?) , so you keep eating , so you get
> more problems.So low carb is better (?)
>
> They tested Glucose itself , one wonders if it works the same for any
> carbohydrate.I think it should because any carb is converted to glucose
> within a few minutes when ingested.So If T2D a low carb meal is much more
> satiating a fact demonstrated before in the literature
>
> The article is so new that the citation below is not yet in Pubmed ; please
> wait a few days for it to appear
>
> Diabetes. 2007 Aug 1; [Epub ahead of print]
> Glucose ingestion fails to inhibit hypothalamic neuronal activity in
> patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus.Vidarsdottir S, Smeets PA,
> Eichelsheim DL, van Osch MJ, Viergever MA, Romijn JA, van der Grond J, Pijl
> H.
> Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Leiden University Medical
> Center, Leiden, The Netherlands.
>
> Objective: The hypothalamus plays a critical role in the regulation of
> energy balance and fuel flux. Glucose ingestion inhibits hypothalamic
> neuronal activity in healthy humans. We hypothesized that hypothalamic
> neuronal activity in response to an oral glucose load would be altered in
> patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus. Research Design and Methods: In this
> randomized, single blind, case-control study, 7 male patients with type 2
> diabetes mellitus (BMI 27.9 +/- 2.0 kg/m(2)) and 10 healthy (BMI 26.1 +/-
> 3.2 kg/m(2)), age-matched men participated. Subjects were scanned twice for
> 38 minutes on separate days, using functional magnetic resonance imaging.
> After 8 min, they ingested either a glucose solution (75 g in 300 mL water)
> or water (300 mL). Results: Glucose ingestion resulted in a prolonged
> significant blood oxygen level dependent (BOLD) signal decrease in the upper
> and lower hypothalamus in healthy men, but not in patients with diabetes.
> Conclusions: Glucose ingestion fails to inhibit hypothalamic neuronal
> activity in patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus. Failure of neural
> circuits to properly adapt to nutrient ingestion may contribute to metabolic
> imbalance in DM2 patients.
>
> PMID: 17670916


There is no evidence that glucose not inhibiting hypothalamic neuronal
activity is a bad thing. Indeed, this difference between type-2
diabetics and non-diabetics may be compensatory for the benefit of
type-2 diabetics for greater hypothalamic tolerance of hyperglycemia.

Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease

Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,

Andrew<><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Cardiologist

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  #8  
Old 08-04-2007, 09:47 AM
GysdeJongh
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low carb is better because then the brain does knows that you have eaten something

"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:3sg6b3pt8vlg8umlpih5ge9et71v4pmb3g@4ax.com...
> "GysdeJongh" <jongh711@planet.nl> wrote in part:



> Very, very interesting. Does the hypothalamus respond with inhibited
> firing
> to glucose or to insulin? I assume the former, but I'm a novice in this
> area.


Hi Jim Chinnis,
To both these and a zillion other signals.....

The human body a a very perfect survival machine.It is geared to getting
enough food and reproduction.Most of the signals are unconscious and we only
find out if there is something wrong

I seem to remember that you are a statistician than regard it as a
multivariate optimization problem which , as ussual , ended up in a local
maximum.So we are all different in that we are all different walking local
maximum solutions of the survival problem that evolution found

Cholecytostokin is a signal which terminates an ongoing meal signalling :
"Hey stop now we have eaten enough" The CCK signal is provoked most strongly
by proteins , also by _some_ fats and just a little bit by
carbohydrates.Unfortunately CCK is not evoked at all in T2D.So.....they are
far better of with (branced) amino acids and good fats because , for them
the vicious circle : inject insulin , eat carbs , get more hugry because of
the insulin and the carbs , eat more carbs will get them in even more
problems

There are very nice articles on this.Look for "The Brain-Gut axis"
Here is an exceprt from the article and a nice colourfull review

The brain plays a central role in the regulation of food intake and energy
balance (1). Hypothalamic- and brain stem nuclei perceive and integrate
circulating metabolic (glucose, lipids) and hormonal (e.g. leptin, insulin,
and various gut peptides) cues reflecting available fuel sources. Indeed, an
oral glucose load acutely mitigates hypothalamic neuronal activity in
healthy humans (2). Efferent neuroendocrine ensembles subsequently
orchestrate food intake and fuel metabolism so as to maintain energy
homeostasis (1;3). Energy imbalance and anomalous fuel flux are metabolic
hallmarks of obesity and type 2 diabetes mellitus. In view of the critical
role of the brain in the control of metabolism alluded to above,
inappropriate hypothalamic processing of signals indicating disruption of
energy homeostasis could contribute to such metabolic anomalies. We
hypothesized that hypothalamic neuronal activity in response to glucose
ingestion would be altered in patients with DM2, reflecting aberrant
perception of current metabolic status



Free review :

J Clin Invest. 2007 Jan;117(1):24-32.

The role of gut hormones in glucose homeostasis.

Drucker DJ.

The gastrointestinal tract has a crucial role in the control of energy
homeostasis through its role in the digestion, absorption, and assimilation
of ingested nutrients. Furthermore, signals from the gastrointestinal tract
are important regulators of gut motility and satiety, both of which have
implications for the long-term control of body weight. Among the specialized
cell types in the gastrointestinal mucosa, enteroendocrine cells have
important roles in regulating energy intake and glucose homeostasis through
their actions on peripheral target organs, including the endocrine pancreas.
This article reviews the biological actions of gut hormones regulating
glucose homeostasis, with an emphasis on mechanisms of action and the
emerging therapeutic roles of gut hormones for the treatment of type 2
diabetes mellitus.



PMID: 17200703



hth

Gys


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  #9  
Old 08-04-2007, 09:47 AM
GysdeJongh
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low carb is better because then the brain does knows that you have eaten something


"GysdeJongh" <jongh711@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:46b425c1$0$25498$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl ...
> "Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
> news:3sg6b3pt8vlg8umlpih5ge9et71v4pmb3g@4ax.com...
>> "GysdeJongh" <jongh711@planet.nl> wrote in part:


Whoops
Sorry....
This one (however the other is also very much worth reading) :

J Clin Invest. 2007 Jan;117(1):13-23.
Gastrointestinal regulation of food intake.

Despite substantial fluctuations in daily food intake, animals maintain a
remarkably stable body weight, because overall caloric ingestion and
expenditure are exquisitely matched over long periods of time, through the
process of energy homeostasis. The brain receives hormonal, neural, and
metabolic signals pertaining to body-energy status and, in response to these
inputs, coordinates adaptive alterations of energy intake and expenditure.
To regulate food consumption, the brain must modulate appetite, and the core
of appetite regulation lies in the gut-brain axis. This Review summarizes
current knowledge regarding the neuroendocrine regulation of food intake by
the gastrointestinal system, focusing on gastric distention, intestinal and
pancreatic satiation peptides, and the orexigenic gastric hormone ghrelin.
We highlight mechanisms governing nutrient sensing and peptide secretion by
enteroendocrine cells, including novel taste-like pathways. The increasingly
nuanced understanding of the mechanisms mediating gut-peptide regulation and
action provides promising targets for new strategies to combat obesity and
diabetes.

PMID: 17200702

Gys


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  #10  
Old 08-04-2007, 09:47 AM
Nicky
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Default Re: Low carb is better because then the brain does knows that you have eaten something

On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 19:04:30 GMT, "bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net>
wrote:

>"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
>news:rpr6b31nioj6a0q9j84bde73l0kemqg0g9@4ax.com.. .
>> On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:06:00 GMT, "bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> "GysdeJongh" <jongh711@planet.nl> wrote in part:
>>>>
>>>>>This article concludes that only if T2D your brain will not signal that
>>>>>you eat glucose or any other carbohydrate (?) , so you keep eating , so
>>>>>you get more problems.So low carb is better (?)
>>>>>
>>>
>>>I know I'm peculiar....I mean, "eccentric", I think I'm old enough to say
>>>that now :-).... but I didn't think I was quite off the wall.
>>>
>>>My brain seems to know quite well when I've eaten even if it's very much
>>>not
>>>low carb.

>>
>> You're lucky, BJ. I used to figure out whether or not I'd had enough
>> by what portion size I had. I never felt any different before or after
>> a meal, I could be hungry half an hour after eating... that meant that
>> all my cues were social ones.
>>

>
>My brain is also quite capable of *consciously ignoring* the signals (I'm
>enjoying the <whatever> too much, it's tasty, etc.) -- why I got so
>overweight years ago -- i.e. "weak as water" as Mrs. Slocumb would say.
>I mostly manage not to do that anymore.


Sure - but I never got the signals. It was like a lightbulb went on
when I started actually feeling full, BEFORE I'd stuffed my gut. Quite
amazing.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25
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  #11  
Old 08-04-2007, 10:11 PM
Andy is Evil
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Default Re: Low carb is better because then the brain does knows that you have eaten something

"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <heartdoc18@emorycardiology.com> wrote in
news:1186174916.813914.16900@19g2000hsx.googlegrou ps.com:

Sock Notice: The readers of SMC would like nothing less than to
congratulate the father on the birth of Sock heartdoc18 who has come to
join his siblings heartdoc(s) 9 through 17 in their continued spamming.

Heartdoc18 weighed in at only 2lbs and so may be the runt of the litter,
only time will tell. In the meantime, he's made a less than promising
start with:

> GysdeJongh wrote:

snip
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease

SCAM ALERT
SPAM
SPAM
SPAM

To complain about the excessive use of socks and the spamming of above
url:

multiple Google accounts. All of these @emorycardiology.com,
i.e. heartdoc9@emorycardiology.com:
------------------------------------------------------------
andrew
heartdoc9
heartdoc11
heartdoc12
heartdoc13
heartdoc14
heartdoc15
heartdoc16
heartdoc17
heartdoc18

Complain to:groups-abuse@google.com

posted to Usenet sent via bellsouth IP addresses
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-----------------------------------------------
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heartmdphd.com appears to be hosted by Softcom:
----------------------------------------------
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?hl=en&

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