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  #1  
Old 07-06-2008, 02:00 PM
Nicky
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Default Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/14

"Of the total of 10 controls, who have switched diet, 2 persons after
a weight reduction of 20 kg each are free of all signs of diabetes
after 3 and 2 years respectively i.e. HbA1c below 5.0%, fasting blood
glucose below 5.0 mmol/l and free of any blood glucose lowering
medication."

These guys are on the diet I'm following - carbs from veg, salad and
rye crackers, under 90g CHO daily. It's only a small study - 16
patients in the intervention group - but it's certainly matching my
experience. The incidence of cardiovascular disease against that from
the high-carb controls is good too.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
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  #2  
Old 07-06-2008, 11:44 PM
Jefferson
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Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

Nicky wrote:

> http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/14
>
> "Of the total of 10 controls, who have switched diet, 2 persons after
> a weight reduction of 20 kg each are free of all signs of diabetes
> after 3 and 2 years respectively i.e. HbA1c below 5.0%, fasting blood
> glucose below 5.0 mmol/l and free of any blood glucose lowering
> medication."


Most of the positive effects on weight were in the first 6 months. The
average weight overall after that point was weight gain. See figure 1.
Individual changes in bodyweight in 16 obese patients with type 2
diabetes. The average is misleading however.

"Bodyweight

The mean reduction in bodyweight over the first six months was 11.3 ± 4
kg (controls: 1.8 ± 3.8 kg). Ten patients (62%) but none of the controls
lost more than 10% of bodyweight.

Mean bodyweight increased from 6 to 22 months by 2.7 ± 4.3 kg. The total
mean increase from month 6 to 44 has been 3.9 ± 5.6 kg. Five of the
patients have maintained bodyweight from 6 to 44 months or reduced it
further (see figure 1). However, five patients have increased mean
bodyweight by 10 kg. In 7 patients (43%) the bodyweight is still 10% or
more below their original weight."

Frank
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  #3  
Old 07-06-2008, 11:44 PM
Nicky
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 16:12:41 -0400, Jefferson <Jefferson@comcast.net>
wrote:

>Nicky wrote:
>
>> http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/14
>>
>> "Of the total of 10 controls, who have switched diet, 2 persons after
>> a weight reduction of 20 kg each are free of all signs of diabetes
>> after 3 and 2 years respectively i.e. HbA1c below 5.0%, fasting blood
>> glucose below 5.0 mmol/l and free of any blood glucose lowering
>> medication."

>
>Most of the positive effects on weight were in the first 6 months. The
>average weight overall after that point was weight gain. See figure 1.
>Individual changes in bodyweight in 16 obese patients with type 2
>diabetes. The average is misleading however.


Again, that matches the pattern I see in myself - eventually, you stop
thinking "diet" and start thinking "way of eating", and experiment to
see where the envelope boundaries are. Some experiments are good, and
are kept; others are bad. Either way, you might have weight
fluctuation whilst you're playing, and because you're now eating at
maintenance carb levels, it won't come off until you tighten up again.
Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25
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  #4  
Old 07-07-2008, 05:16 AM
Alan S
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:54:18 +0100, Nicky
<ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote:

>http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/14
>
>"Of the total of 10 controls, who have switched diet, 2 persons after
>a weight reduction of 20 kg each are free of all signs of diabetes
>after 3 and 2 years respectively i.e. HbA1c below 5.0%, fasting blood
>glucose below 5.0 mmol/l and free of any blood glucose lowering
>medication."
>
>These guys are on the diet I'm following - carbs from veg, salad and
>rye crackers, under 90g CHO daily. It's only a small study - 16
>patients in the intervention group - but it's certainly matching my
>experience. The incidence of cardiovascular disease against that from
>the high-carb controls is good too.
>
>Nicky.
>T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
>D&E, 100ug thyroxine
>Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25


Full free pdf (272kb) here:
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.co...-7075-5-14.pdf

There were a couple of small sections that I feel could be
improved if, and hopefully when, this study is repeated as a
large-scale study:

"The patients were counselled not to eat between meals." I
would delete that and counsel them on adjusting main meals
to balance snacks if they graze.

"The patients monitored their own blood glucose 4 times a
day and were counselled by telephone over the first few
weeks for further reductions of medications". One wonders
what post-prandial tests were done and what they were
advised to do as a consequence of those tests.

But apart from that, reading this paper has made my day. At
long last it is starting to happen. Yes, it is only small
number of subjects, but they note and I agree "The work
presented here suggests the importance of funding large
scale long term trials as well as the benefits and limited
risk in using low carbohydrate diets now."

To make the importance of this paper a little clearer to
those without broad-band to download it I'll repeat the
discussion section in a following post.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_s/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (On Indian Roads)


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  #5  
Old 07-07-2008, 05:16 AM
Alan S
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:54:18 +0100, Nicky
<ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote:

>http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/14


Copied from the discussion and summary of the paper:

"Discussion

A summary of the implications of the current work:

1. This year, for the first time, the ADA accepted the value
of carbohydrate-restricted diet for weight loss. The text of
their guidelines, however, continues previous guidelines in
finding fault with such diets and, in fact, does not cite
most of the recent publications supporting their use [2].
Other health agencies have similarly insisted on low fat
approaches. There is reason to believe that these guidelines
are not followed in practice. A perusal of internet diabetes
sites suggests that the major dietary emphasis is on
carbohydrate control.

2. The major barrier to official acceptance is the stated
lack of long term trials although it has never been stated
what the features of successes in short term trials suggest
that they would not be maintained.

3. The work presented here suggests the importance of
funding large scale long term trials as well as the benefits
and limited risk in using low carbohydrate diets now.

4. Several studies have shown that low fat diets can be
successful but overall, it would be difficult to say they
are inherently reliable.

5. In the studies reported here, patients in the two groups
had, despite all possible support, failed in achieving an
acceptable control of bodyweight and hyperglycemia on
traditional low fat diets.

8. An important issue is the fact that some patients do
become completely free of disease as soon as they are
presented with a low-carbohydrate option. It is unknown what
factors make these persons succeed now despite complete
failure in the past.

In the low-carbohydrate group bodyweight and HbA1c is
still significantly lower than before start. The bodyweight
of 7 patients (43%) is still 10% below the initial weight,
the original goal of the study. The success rate almost 4
years later is thus 43% as compared to zero in the control
group.

Five of 16 patients in the intervention group have had
stable bodyweight 38 months after the conclusion of the 6
months study period without any special follow-up.

Weight increase has been preceded by an increased intake of
carbohydrates in those cases where it has occurred. It is
clear that the high-carbohydrate diet followed before the
study has been an important, probably the central,
contributing cause of their condition.

One rationale for a low-carbohydrate diet is the
experimentally observed reduction in hunger [8] Patients
generally reported that hunger was absent on the
intervention diet and only after increasing dietary
carbohydrates did it return.

The intensity of hunger has been reported to be positively
correlated to the proportion of carbohydrates in obese men
over a 4 week period [9].

We believe that the close follow-up was important.
Patients had many questions at each meeting and concerns
about the diet that might have hindered adherence were
cleared up. In additions individual patients received
support from the group.

There is now little evidence for the claim that a
fat-reduced diet for weight reduction has any particular
value beyond caloric counting [10]. On the other hand, six
randomised studies have shown that carbohydrate restriction
with adlibitum energy intake confers a significant benefit
with regard to weight loss in obese persons [11-16]. The
current study is consistent with these reports and suggests
that
high-starch, high-carbohydrate diets excessively stimulate
appetite and disturb energy balance in patients with the
metabolic syndrome and type 2 diabetes [3]. A reduction of
carbohydrates normalises the balance, reduces insulin
concentrations and favours utilization of stored fat as fuel
as well as significantly reducing insulin resistance [3].
Considering the solid evidence for the negative effect of
hyperglycemia on diabetes complications as well as
cardiovascular disease the present high-carbohydrate dietary
advice resulting in unnecessary hyperglycemia and insulin
resistance seems difficult to support [17-19] and for
diabetes patients, current dietary recommendations seem to
be a major part of their problem rather than being part of
the solution. Carbohydrate restriction, however, reverses or
neutralises all aspects of the metabolic syndrome
[20,21].

Summary: A reduced carbohydrate diet is effective in
motivated patients and can be recommended for overweight
overweight patients with type 2 diabetes. There has been no
sign of a negative cardiovascular effect."

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_s/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (On Indian Roads)


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  #6  
Old 07-07-2008, 05:16 AM
Alan S
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:33:12 +1000, Alan S
<loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:54:18 +0100, Nicky
><ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
>>http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/14


I just noticed the similarity of this paper's diet
composition and that of Gannon and Nuttal's lobag diet - and
then realised that their paper is in the references.

For those interested (it's a 4mb pdf):
http://nutritionandmetabolism.com/co...-7075-3-16.pdf

This seems to be an excellent test of the lobag20.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_s/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (On Indian Roads)


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  #7  
Old 07-07-2008, 05:16 AM
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

Jefferson wrote:
> Nicky wrote:
>
> > http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/14
> >
> > "Of the total of 10 controls, who have switched diet, 2 persons after
> > a weight reduction of 20 kg each are free of all signs of diabetes
> > after 3 and 2 years respectively i.e. HbA1c below 5.0%, fasting blood
> > glucose below 5.0 mmol/l and free of any blood glucose lowering
> > medication."

>
> Most of the positive effects on weight were in the first 6 months. The
> average weight overall after that point was weight gain. See figure 1.
> Individual changes in bodyweight in 16 obese patients with type 2
> diabetes. The average is misleading however.
>
> "Bodyweight
>
> The mean reduction in bodyweight over the first six months was 11.3 +/- 4
> kg (controls: 1.8 +/- 3.8 kg). Ten patients (62%) but none of the controls
> lost more than 10% of bodyweight.
>
> Mean bodyweight increased from 6 to 22 months by 2.7 +/- 4.3 kg. The total
> mean increase from month 6 to 44 has been 3.9 +/- 5.6 kg. Five of the
> patients have maintained bodyweight from 6 to 44 months or reduced it
> further (see figure 1). However, five patients have increased mean
> bodyweight by 10 kg. In 7 patients (43%) the bodyweight is still 10% or
> more below their original weight."


This is in contrast to simply eating less, down to the right amount,
either by choice or by surgery:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...42af31e3cbb1b?

May you and other dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a
blessedly wonderful 2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus
Christ as our Messiah, the Son of Man ...

.... by being hungrier:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...1e617d10bd689?

Hunger is wonderful ! ! !

It's how we know what GOD desires, which is all that is good.

Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve
paid for with their and our immortal lives.

"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...

.... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)

Amen.

Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of
promoting much greater understanding:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...aa8f8a4d41360?

Be hungrier, which is healthier.

Marana tha

Prayerfully in the awesome name of our Messiah, LORD Jesus Christ,

Andrew <><
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...8812d72ab4e17?
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  #8  
Old 07-07-2008, 06:45 AM
Quentin Grady
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:54:18 +0100, Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com>
wrote:

>http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/14
>
>"Of the total of 10 controls, who have switched diet, 2 persons after
>a weight reduction of 20 kg each are free of all signs of diabetes
>after 3 and 2 years respectively i.e. HbA1c below 5.0%, fasting blood
>glucose below 5.0 mmol/l and free of any blood glucose lowering
>medication."
>
>These guys are on the diet I'm following - carbs from veg, salad and
>rye crackers, under 90g CHO daily. It's only a small study - 16
>patients in the intervention group - but it's certainly matching my
>experience. The incidence of cardiovascular disease against that from
>the high-carb controls is good too.
>
>Nicky.


G'day G'day Nicky,

I'm fascinated that they included rye crackers.

In response to friends who were rapidly losing 20+ kilograms weight on
a moderately low carb diet featuring vegetables mostly of a salad
type, lean meat, nuts and fruit I had them add rye crackers after some
months. The reason was constipation. When people give up wheat they
no longer have a dietary source of pentosans which relieve
constipation.

This is one of the hidden benefits of including wheat in a diet that
most people are unaware of when they go low carb. Rye has five times
the concentration of pentosans as wheat so is often suitable to add to
a low carb diet if one experiences that sort of problem. One can the
same amount of pentosans with a fifth of the carbs.

Some people of course don't need rye because the fibre in the
vegetables does the trick for them.

Of course there are people like me who must resort to some unnatural
means to relieve constipation. The constipation I've experienced
lately is brought on by medication for multiple myeloma, a form of
bone marrow cancer, unrelated to diet or lifestyle.

It seems that now adding rye could now have become the accepted form
of achieving regularity. Why else would it be specified in the trial?
Ideas, even small ones, appear to spread quickly which is all to the
good. Of course there could have been independent discovery of the
strategy. We're unlikely to find out for certain.

Best wishes,
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
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  #9  
Old 07-07-2008, 03:56 PM
Phil Launchbury
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

In article <s2u074tnbv5gbos5iq87opbpfogm88im1h@4ax.com>, Nicky wrote:
>
> These guys are on the diet I'm following - carbs from veg, salad and
> rye crackers, under 90g CHO daily. It's only a small study - 16
> patients in the intervention group - but it's certainly matching my


Have you got more details of the diet? Or are they in the full PDF
download?

Phil

--
Phil Launchbury, IT PHB
'I'm training the bats that live in my cube
to juggle mushrooms'
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  #10  
Old 07-07-2008, 07:18 PM
Trinkwasser
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:24:47 +1000, Alan S
<loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:54:18 +0100, Nicky
><ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
>>http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/14
>>
>>"Of the total of 10 controls, who have switched diet, 2 persons after
>>a weight reduction of 20 kg each are free of all signs of diabetes
>>after 3 and 2 years respectively i.e. HbA1c below 5.0%, fasting blood
>>glucose below 5.0 mmol/l and free of any blood glucose lowering
>>medication."
>>
>>These guys are on the diet I'm following - carbs from veg, salad and
>>rye crackers, under 90g CHO daily. It's only a small study - 16
>>patients in the intervention group - but it's certainly matching my
>>experience. The incidence of cardiovascular disease against that from
>>the high-carb controls is good too.
>>
>>Nicky.
>>T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
>>D&E, 100ug thyroxine
>>Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25

>
>Full free pdf (272kb) here:
>http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.co...-7075-5-14.pdf
>
>There were a couple of small sections that I feel could be
>improved if, and hopefully when, this study is repeated as a
>large-scale study:
>
>"The patients were counselled not to eat between meals." I
>would delete that and counsel them on adjusting main meals
>to balance snacks if they graze.
>
>"The patients monitored their own blood glucose 4 times a
>day and were counselled by telephone over the first few
>weeks for further reductions of medications". One wonders
>what post-prandial tests were done and what they were
>advised to do as a consequence of those tests.
>
>But apart from that, reading this paper has made my day. At
>long last it is starting to happen. Yes, it is only small
>number of subjects, but they note and I agree "The work
>presented here suggests the importance of funding large
>scale long term trials as well as the benefits and limited
>risk in using low carbohydrate diets now."
>
>To make the importance of this paper a little clearer to
>those without broad-band to download it I'll repeat the
>discussion section in a following post.


This website seems to be an excellent source of information.

I wonder if they could be persuaded to run a proper scientific type
trial of Test Test Test

Come to that, does anyone have John Buse's email? Unlike some of his
forbears at the ADA he might also be persuaded to trial things that
might actually help the health of diabetics despite the corresponding
loss of sponsorship from Big Grain.
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  #11  
Old 07-07-2008, 07:18 PM
Trinkwasser
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:45:12 +1000, Alan S
<loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:33:12 +1000, Alan S
><loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:54:18 +0100, Nicky
>><ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/14

>
>I just noticed the similarity of this paper's diet
>composition and that of Gannon and Nuttal's lobag diet - and
>then realised that their paper is in the references.
>
>For those interested (it's a 4mb pdf):
>http://nutritionandmetabolism.com/co...-7075-3-16.pdf
>
>This seems to be an excellent test of the lobag20.


Oh you guys! <sigh>

Just as I think I'm catching up on reading and rereading my downloaded
papers and you have to go and dump a load more on me!

I'm going to have to get up off my arse and go walk round the block.

Up, up and away . . . from my spellchecker . . .
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  #12  
Old 07-07-2008, 07:18 PM
Trinkwasser
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:00:54 +1200, Quentin Grady
<quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:54:18 +0100, Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com>
>wrote:
>
>>http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/14
>>
>>"Of the total of 10 controls, who have switched diet, 2 persons after
>>a weight reduction of 20 kg each are free of all signs of diabetes
>>after 3 and 2 years respectively i.e. HbA1c below 5.0%, fasting blood
>>glucose below 5.0 mmol/l and free of any blood glucose lowering
>>medication."
>>
>>These guys are on the diet I'm following - carbs from veg, salad and
>>rye crackers, under 90g CHO daily. It's only a small study - 16
>>patients in the intervention group - but it's certainly matching my
>>experience. The incidence of cardiovascular disease against that from
>>the high-carb controls is good too.
>>
>>Nicky.

>
>G'day G'day Nicky,
>
> I'm fascinated that they included rye crackers.
>
>In response to friends who were rapidly losing 20+ kilograms weight on
>a moderately low carb diet featuring vegetables mostly of a salad
>type, lean meat, nuts and fruit I had them add rye crackers after some
>months. The reason was constipation. When people give up wheat they
>no longer have a dietary source of pentosans which relieve
>constipation.
>
>This is one of the hidden benefits of including wheat in a diet that
>most people are unaware of when they go low carb. Rye has five times
>the concentration of pentosans as wheat so is often suitable to add to
>a low carb diet if one experiences that sort of problem. One can the
>same amount of pentosans with a fifth of the carbs.


No shit!

sorry couldn't resist

Are there pentosans in oats? I've mostly replaced my wheat with
oatcakes, except for some wholewheat/wholemeal bread in the evening. I
could do more ryebread but BE WARNED! look at the weight and carb
content before going crazy with it, mine is 70g slices which contain
40g carbs and was spiking me until I realised to only eat half a
slice.
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  #13  
Old 07-07-2008, 10:55 PM
Quentin Grady
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:30:10 +0100, Trinkwasser
<spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:

>No shit!


LOL

>sorry couldn't resist


Quite understandable.

>Are there pentosans in oats?


Rye tops the list. Wheat comes a distant second but people consume
more of it normally. The other grains hardly figure. For more
detailed knowledge one would have to Google.

>I've mostly replaced my wheat with
>oatcakes, except for some wholewheat/wholemeal bread in the evening. I
>could do more ryebread but BE WARNED! look at the weight and carb
>content before going crazy with it, mine is 70g slices which contain
>40g carbs and was spiking me until I realised to only eat half a
>slice.


Well said. Unless you have a problem there is nothing to mend.
The folks I was helping did have and the solution worked.

Best wishes,
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
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  #14  
Old 07-08-2008, 03:51 AM
Quentin Grady
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:24:47 +1000, Alan S
<loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

>"The patients were counselled not to eat between meals." I
>would delete that and counsel them on adjusting main meals
>to balance snacks if they graze.


One high price weightloss diet program swears by having a five hour
interval between eating. This includes even milk in tea.
Their reasoning has to do with insulin like growth factor.

I watch and learn even though I fully appreciate that the idea isn't
likely to be appropriate for T2 diabetics.

Thanks for your comments. IMHO, they make sense for readers here on
ASD.

Best wishes,
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
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  #15  
Old 07-08-2008, 07:28 AM
Oleg Lego
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still


On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:45:12 +1000, Alan S posted:

>On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:33:12 +1000, Alan S
><loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:54:18 +0100, Nicky
>><ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/14

>
>I just noticed the similarity of this paper's diet
>composition and that of Gannon and Nuttal's lobag diet - and
>then realised that their paper is in the references.
>
>For those interested (it's a 4mb pdf):
>http://nutritionandmetabolism.com/co...-7075-3-16.pdf


I am downloading it now. Looks like it is only 1.1 mb though.

>This seems to be an excellent test of the lobag20.
>
>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.


--
roses are #FF0000
violets are #0000FF
all my base
are belong to you
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  #16  
Old 07-08-2008, 07:23 PM
Trinkwasser
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Low-carb study followup to 44 months, great results still

On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:22:42 +1200, Quentin Grady
<quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:30:10 +0100, Trinkwasser
><spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>No shit!

>
>LOL
>
>>sorry couldn't resist

>
>Quite understandable.
>
>>Are there pentosans in oats?

>
>Rye tops the list. Wheat comes a distant second but people consume
>more of it normally. The other grains hardly figure. For more
>detailed knowledge one would have to Google.
>
>>I've mostly replaced my wheat with
>>oatcakes, except for some wholewheat/wholemeal bread in the evening. I
>>could do more ryebread but BE WARNED! look at the weight and carb
>>content before going crazy with it, mine is 70g slices which contain
>>40g carbs and was spiking me until I realised to only eat half a
>>slice.

>
>Well said. Unless you have a problem there is nothing to mend.
>The folks I was helping did have and the solution worked.


I'm back to crapping regularly again. For now.

I am actually eating more wheat bread of late, strangely (and we
discussed this at Nicky's while Alan was here) I seem to be able to do
more carbs in the evening without frights. The downside is that I need
to do less at night again, more than breakfast quantities will spike
me then whereas I can do around 50g rather than 30g for my evening
meal and stay acceptable. Not that I do routinely but occasionally
it's useful to have that freedom.
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