A low-carbohydrate diet helps people with a condition called metabolic syndrome, a collection of serious risk factors found in some obese individuals

http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/hea...out606585.html

Now, a new study confirms the diet is effective against the syndrome,
and the researchers think they've discovered how it works.

Eating a low-carb diet improves the hormonal signaling involved in
obesity and improves the sense of fullness, allowing weight loss,
according to study leader Matthew R. Hayes, a postdoctoral fellow at
the University of Pennsylvania.

"There is this strong interest in the field in carb-restricted diets
in the treatment of obesity," said Hayes, who conducted the research
while a doctoral student at Pennsylvania State University. "That
[interest] comes from a number of controlled clinical trials that
demonstrate overweight or obese people, maintained on low-carb diets,
are successful if they adhere to the diet."

"It's definitely a hot debate in the field," Hayes added, whether the
diets work. "We wanted to look at not only if it worked but how."

People with metabolic syndrome struggle with excessive abdominal fat;
low levels of HDL -- good -- cholesterol; and insulin resistance or
glucose intolerance, in which the body doesn't properly use insulin or
blood sugar. Metabolic syndrome raises the risk of heart disease, type
2 diabetes and other serious health problems, according to the
American Heart Association.

Hayes and his colleagues studied 20 men and women with metabolic
syndrome, instructing them to follow a low-carb diet similar to the
popular South Beach Diet. For phase one, which lasted two weeks, the
study participants were told to get 10 percent of their calories from
carbohydrates. For phase 2, which lasted the remaining 10 weeks of the
study, they were told to eat up to 27 percent carbs.

"The subjects did lose weight, and they lost total body fat. Their
weight was a little over 200 pounds when the study started. By the end
of the study, the subjects weighed about 193, 194. They lost close to
10 pounds during the three-month study."

And, Hayes said, "By the end of the study, about 50 percent no longer
had metabolic syndrome."

The study participants didn't follow the diets strictly, he found.
"Phase one intake was 25 percent [carbohydrates], on average," he
said, rather than the 10 percent recommended. "Phase two carb intake
was 35 percent," he said, although 27 percent was recommended. But it
was a reduction from the participants' pre-study diet, which included
47 percent of calories from carbohydrates, he said.

To find out why the weight declined, Hayes' team did hormone assays,
measuring fasting and post-meal blood levels of hormones associated
with appetite and food intake, such as insulin, leptin and
cholecystokinin (CCK).

"We found some changes in hormone levels," he said. "We saw a decrease
in insulin, a decrease in leptin levels by the end of phase one. It
was fast."

"By the end of phase 2, the insulin levels had crept up toward
baseline; the leptin levels also rose, but it did not come back to the
levels at baseline," Hayes said.

"These alternations in hormone levels acting together help reduce the
amount of food consumed," he said. "There's a synergy. Based on the
literature already out there, we are speculating that this synergy of
hormones may be the mechanism explaining why people are satisfied with
less food and [the low-carb diet] results in weight loss."

Diarmid wrote:
>
> http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/hea...out606585.html
>
> Now, a new study confirms the diet is effective against the syndrome,
> and the researchers think they've discovered how it works.
>
> Eating a low-carb diet improves the hormonal signaling involved in
> obesity and improves the sense of fullness, allowing weight loss,
> according to study leader Matthew R. Hayes, a postdoctoral fellow at
> the University of Pennsylvania.
>
> "There is this strong interest in the field in carb-restricted diets
> in the treatment of obesity," said Hayes, who conducted the research
> while a doctoral student at Pennsylvania State University. "That
> [interest] comes from a number of controlled clinical trials that
> demonstrate overweight or obese people, maintained on low-carb diets,
> are successful if they adhere to the diet."
>
> "It's definitely a hot debate in the field," Hayes added, whether the
> diets work. "We wanted to look at not only if it worked but how."
>
> People with metabolic syndrome struggle with excessive abdominal fat;
> low levels of HDL -- good -- cholesterol; and insulin resistance or
> glucose intolerance, in which the body doesn't properly use insulin or
> blood sugar. Metabolic syndrome raises the risk of heart disease, type
> 2 diabetes and other serious health problems, according to the
> American Heart Association.
>
> Hayes and his colleagues studied 20 men and women with metabolic
> syndrome, instructing them to follow a low-carb diet similar to the
> popular South Beach Diet. For phase one, which lasted two weeks, the
> study participants were told to get 10 percent of their calories from
> carbohydrates. For phase 2, which lasted the remaining 10 weeks of the
> study, they were told to eat up to 27 percent carbs.
>
> "The subjects did lose weight, and they lost total body fat. Their
> weight was a little over 200 pounds when the study started. By the end
> of the study, the subjects weighed about 193, 194. They lost close to
> 10 pounds during the three-month study."
>
> And, Hayes said, "By the end of the study, about 50 percent no longer
> had metabolic syndrome."
>
> The study participants didn't follow the diets strictly, he found.
> "Phase one intake was 25 percent [carbohydrates], on average," he
> said, rather than the 10 percent recommended. "Phase two carb intake
> was 35 percent," he said, although 27 percent was recommended. But it
> was a reduction from the participants' pre-study diet, which included
> 47 percent of calories from carbohydrates, he said.
>
> To find out why the weight declined, Hayes' team did hormone assays,
> measuring fasting and post-meal blood levels of hormones associated
> with appetite and food intake, such as insulin, leptin and
> cholecystokinin (CCK).
>
> "We found some changes in hormone levels," he said. "We saw a decrease
> in insulin, a decrease in leptin levels by the end of phase one. It
> was fast."
>
> "By the end of phase 2, the insulin levels had crept up toward
> baseline;

This would indicate that the participants still had metabolic syndrome
(MetS), which is essentially insulin resistance.

> the leptin levels also rose, but it did not come back to the
> levels at baseline," Hayes said.

This would suggest that what was lost was subcutaneous adipose tissue
(SAT) rather than visceral adipose tissue (VAT) because it is the
former that makes the leptin while the VAT makes pro-inflammatory
cytokines such as interleukin-6.

> "These alternations in hormone levels acting together help reduce the
> amount of food consumed," he said.

Actually, decreased leptin should be increasing appetite so that these
alterations in hormone levels do not explain the decreased intake.

> "There's a synergy. Based on the
> literature already out there, we are speculating that this synergy of
> hormones may be the mechanism explaining why people are satisfied with
> less food and [the low-carb diet] results in weight loss."

With insulin back up to baseline and leptin lower than baseline there
would be no synergy because synergy by definition is the interaction
between two independent variables.

What is more likely is that it is the hyperketonemia associated with
low-carbing especially in the setting of increased exercise that is
suppressing hunger. It is our issues with hunger that causes the
irrational compulsion to overeat when hungry.

Ironically, it is only when we feel hungry that our bodies gets rid of
the VAT, because it is only when we are hungry that the VAT becomes
more adequately perfused. When there is suppression of hunger for any
reason, VAT will simply persist because it is not adequately perfused
for extraction of lipid stores to effect their apoptosis.

Thus, it remains wiser to eat less, down to the optimal amount to
become healthier (hungrier) to lose the VAT, cure the IR/MetS, and
possibly cure the type-2 diabetes:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Healing

Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease

Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Cardiologist

On Jul 24, 9:02 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<and...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
> Diarmid wrote:
>
> >http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/hea...07/07/20/hscou...
>
> > Now, a new study confirms the diet is effective against the syndrome,
> > and the researchers think they've discovered how it works.
>
> > Eating a low-carb diet improves the hormonal signaling involved in
> > obesity and improves the sense of fullness, allowing weight loss,
> > according to study leader Matthew R. Hayes, a postdoctoral fellow at
> > the University of Pennsylvania.
>
> > "There is this strong interest in the field in carb-restricted diets
> > in the treatment of obesity," said Hayes, who conducted the research
> > while a doctoral student at Pennsylvania State University. "That
> > [interest] comes from a number of controlled clinical trials that
> > demonstrate overweight or obese people, maintained on low-carb diets,
> > are successful if they adhere to the diet."
>
> > "It's definitely a hot debate in the field," Hayes added, whether the
> > diets work. "We wanted to look at not only if it worked but how."
>
> > People with metabolic syndrome struggle with excessive abdominal fat;
> > low levels of HDL -- good -- cholesterol; and insulin resistance or
> > glucose intolerance, in which the body doesn't properly use insulin or
> > blood sugar. Metabolic syndrome raises the risk of heart disease, type
> > 2 diabetes and other serious health problems, according to the
> > American Heart Association.
>
> > Hayes and his colleagues studied 20 men and women with metabolic
> > syndrome, instructing them to follow a low-carb diet similar to the
> > popular South Beach Diet. For phase one, which lasted two weeks, the
> > study participants were told to get 10 percent of their calories from
> > carbohydrates. For phase 2, which lasted the remaining 10 weeks of the
> > study, they were told to eat up to 27 percent carbs.
>
> > "The subjects did lose weight, and they lost total body fat. Their
> > weight was a little over 200 pounds when the study started. By the end
> > of the study, the subjects weighed about 193, 194. They lost close to
> > 10 pounds during the three-month study."
>
> > And, Hayes said, "By the end of the study, about 50 percent no longer
> > had metabolic syndrome."
>
> > The study participants didn't follow the diets strictly, he found.
> > "Phase one intake was 25 percent [carbohydrates], on average," he
> > said, rather than the 10 percent recommended. "Phase two carb intake
> > was 35 percent," he said, although 27 percent was recommended. But it
> > was a reduction from the participants' pre-study diet, which included
> > 47 percent of calories from carbohydrates, he said.
>
> > To find out why the weight declined, Hayes' team did hormone assays,
> > measuring fasting and post-meal blood levels of hormones associated
> > with appetite and food intake, such as insulin, leptin and
> > cholecystokinin (CCK).
>
> > "We found some changes in hormone levels," he said. "We saw a decrease
> > in insulin, a decrease in leptin levels by the end of phase one. It
> > was fast."
>
> > "By the end of phase 2, the insulin levels had crept up toward
> > baseline;
>
> This would indicate that the participants still had metabolic syndrome
> (MetS), which is essentially insulin resistance.

This statement shows a very shallow understanding of metabolic
syndrome and insulin resistance. No wonder you can't find work in the
field of medicine.


>
> > the leptin levels also rose, but it did not come back to the
> > levels at baseline," Hayes said.
>
> This would suggest that what was lost was subcutaneous adipose tissue
> (SAT) rather than visceral adipose tissue (VAT) because it is the
> former that makes the leptin while the VAT makes pro-inflammatory
> cytokines such as interleukin-6.

You'd be wrong yet a again.

>
> > "These alternations in hormone levels acting together help reduce the
> > amount of food consumed," he said.
>
> Actually, decreased leptin should be increasing appetite so that these
> alterations in hormone levels do not explain the decreased intake.
>
> > "There's a synergy. Based on the
> > literature already out there, we are speculating that this synergy of
> > hormones may be the mechanism explaining why people are satisfied with
> > less food and [the low-carb diet] results in weight loss."
>
> With insulin back up to baseline and leptin lower than baseline there
> would be no synergy because synergy by definition is the interaction
> between two independent variables.
>
> What is more likely is that it is the hyperketonemia associated with
> low-carbing especially in the setting of increased exercise that is
> suppressing hunger. It is our issues with hunger that causes the
> irrational compulsion to overeat when hungry.
>
> Ironically, it is only when we feel hungry that our bodies gets rid of
> the VAT, because it is only when we are hungry that the VAT becomes
> more adequately perfused. When there is suppression of hunger for any
> reason, VAT will simply persist because it is not adequately perfused
> for extraction of lipid stores to effect their apoptosis.
>
> Thus, it remains wiser to eat less, down to the optimal amount to
> become healthier (hungrier) to lose the VAT, cure the IR/MetS, and
> possibly cure the type-2 diabetes:
>
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Healing
>
> Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
>
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
>
> Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Cardiologist- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Jul 24, 7:50 am, Diarmid <diarmidlo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/hea...07/07/20/hscou...

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/75/5/951-a discusses how much
carbohydrate a body needs (150 g/day), but some of that can be me from
the glycerol in fat.

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/175/11/1407-a mentions a possible
loss of lean muscle mass from a low carb diet.

--
Ron

The author of the last one misuses the word ketoacidosis, not giving me
confidence in her abilities.

Ron Peterson wrote:
| On Jul 24, 7:50 am, Diarmid <diarmidlo...@gmail.com> wrote:
|| http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/hea...07/07/20/hscou...
|
| http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/75/5/951-a discusses how much
| carbohydrate a body needs (150 g/day), but some of that can be me from
| the glycerol in fat.
|
| http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/175/11/1407-a mentions a possible
| loss of lean muscle mass from a low carb diet.

On Jul 24, 8:50 am, Diarmid <diarmidlo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/hea...07/07/20/hscou...
>
> Now, a new study confirms the diet is effective against the syndrome,
> and the researchers think they've discovered how it works.
>
> Eating a low-carb diet improves the hormonal signaling involved in
> obesity and improves the sense of fullness, allowing weight loss,
> according to study leader Matthew R. Hayes, a postdoctoral fellow at
> the University of Pennsylvania.
>
> "There is this strong interest in the field in carb-restricted diets
> in the treatment of obesity," said Hayes, who conducted the research
> while a doctoral student at Pennsylvania State University. "That
> [interest] comes from a number of controlled clinical trials that
> demonstrate overweight or obese people, maintained on low-carb diets,
> are successful if they adhere to the diet."
>
> "It's definitely a hot debate in the field," Hayes added, whether the
> diets work. "We wanted to look at not only if it worked but how."
>
> People with metabolic syndrome struggle with excessive abdominal fat;
> low levels of HDL -- good -- cholesterol; and insulin resistance or
> glucose intolerance, in which the body doesn't properly use insulin or
> blood sugar. Metabolic syndrome raises the risk of heart disease, type
> 2 diabetes and other serious health problems, according to the
> American Heart Association.
>
> Hayes and his colleagues studied 20 men and women with metabolic
> syndrome, instructing them to follow a low-carb diet similar to the
> popular South Beach Diet. For phase one, which lasted two weeks, the
> study participants were told to get 10 percent of their calories from
> carbohydrates. For phase 2, which lasted the remaining 10 weeks of the
> study, they were told to eat up to 27 percent carbs.
>
> "The subjects did lose weight, and they lost total body fat. Their
> weight was a little over 200 pounds when the study started. By the end
> of the study, the subjects weighed about 193, 194. They lost close to
> 10 pounds during the three-month study."
>
> And, Hayes said, "By the end of the study, about 50 percent no longer
> had metabolic syndrome."
>
> The study participants didn't follow the diets strictly, he found.
> "Phase one intake was 25 percent [carbohydrates], on average," he
> said, rather than the 10 percent recommended. "Phase two carb intake
> was 35 percent," he said, although 27 percent was recommended. But it
> was a reduction from the participants' pre-study diet, which included
> 47 percent of calories from carbohydrates, he said.
>
> To find out why the weight declined, Hayes' team did hormone assays,
> measuring fasting and post-meal blood levels of hormones associated
> with appetite and food intake, such as insulin, leptin and
> cholecystokinin (CCK).
>
> "We found some changes in hormone levels," he said. "We saw a decrease
> in insulin, a decrease in leptin levels by the end of phase one. It
> was fast."
>
> "By the end of phase 2, the insulin levels had crept up toward
> baseline; the leptin levels also rose, but it did not come back to the
> levels at baseline," Hayes said.
>
> "These alternations in hormone levels acting together help reduce the
> amount of food consumed," he said. "There's a synergy. Based on the
> literature already out there, we are speculating that this synergy of
> hormones may be the mechanism explaining why people are satisfied with
> less food and [the low-carb diet] results in weight loss."

People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.

Dolores

On Jul 25, 8:08 am, dorsy1943 <dtm...@usadatanet.net> wrote:

> People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
> little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
> syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
> not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
> this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
> syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.
>
> Dolores

Our ancestors clearly ate meat. Else, they would not have evolved an
omnivore's teeth (specifically the incisors and the canines) for
ripping up the meat. If it were all supposed to be rice, oats and
carrots, we'd have teeth more like a horse, wouldn't we? So, please,
get off your high horse, embrace your ancestors, and eat more meat and
less grain. It'll do wonders for you.

To answer your question on point, the problem is the efficiency/
shoddiness of the carbs people here eat. HFCS. It's also about the
easy availability here. If you are struggling on a subsistence farm,
you won't get MetS because you do a lot of work for not a lot of food.
If, on the other hand, you work at Kinkos, eat fast food and TV
dinners, drink coke with HFCS, you're getting a ton of cheap calories
with no work (Sorry, it's true, Kinko's employees seem to do less than
any other retail employee I've ever met). So, if you're poorly evolved
for eating a lot of calories and doing not much, you get the MetS.

Last thing: If you go to one of these other countries where they eat a
lot of white rice and not much animal protein and fat, and you go to
the cities, where people do knowledge work, you find, surprise,
surprise, MetS. Shocking, but true. I would posit that the US is best
at supplying cheap calories and eliminating physical work. So, we're
not particularly f-ed up when it comes to MetS. We're just ahead of
the curve.

On Jul 25, 7:08 am, dorsy1943 <dtm...@usadatanet.net> wrote:

> People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
> little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
> syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
> not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
> this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
> syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.

http://www.kerala.gov.in/keralacallmay04/p15-17.pdf indicates that in
Kerala the incidence heart attacks is very high.

--
Ron

On Jul 25, 7:08 am, dorsy1943 <dtm...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
> On Jul 24, 8:50 am, Diarmid <diarmidlo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/hea...07/07/20/hscou...
>
> > Now, a new study confirms the diet is effective against the syndrome,
> > and the researchers think they've discovered how it works.
>
> > Eating a low-carb diet improves the hormonal signaling involved in
> > obesity and improves the sense of fullness, allowing weight loss,
> > according to study leader Matthew R. Hayes, a postdoctoral fellow at
> > the University of Pennsylvania.
>
> > "There is this strong interest in the field in carb-restricted diets
> > in the treatment of obesity," said Hayes, who conducted the research
> > while a doctoral student at Pennsylvania State University. "That
> > [interest] comes from a number of controlled clinical trials that
> > demonstrate overweight or obese people, maintained on low-carb diets,
> > are successful if they adhere to the diet."
>
> > "It's definitely a hot debate in the field," Hayes added, whether the
> > diets work. "We wanted to look at not only if it worked but how."
>
> > People with metabolic syndrome struggle with excessive abdominal fat;
> > low levels of HDL -- good -- cholesterol; and insulin resistance or
> > glucose intolerance, in which the body doesn't properly use insulin or
> > blood sugar. Metabolic syndrome raises the risk of heart disease, type
> > 2 diabetes and other serious health problems, according to the
> > American Heart Association.
>
> > Hayes and his colleagues studied 20 men and women with metabolic
> > syndrome, instructing them to follow a low-carb diet similar to the
> > popular South Beach Diet. For phase one, which lasted two weeks, the
> > study participants were told to get 10 percent of their calories from
> > carbohydrates. For phase 2, which lasted the remaining 10 weeks of the
> > study, they were told to eat up to 27 percent carbs.
>
> > "The subjects did lose weight, and they lost total body fat. Their
> > weight was a little over 200 pounds when the study started. By the end
> > of the study, the subjects weighed about 193, 194. They lost close to
> > 10 pounds during the three-month study."
>
> > And, Hayes said, "By the end of the study, about 50 percent no longer
> > had metabolic syndrome."
>
> > The study participants didn't follow the diets strictly, he found.
> > "Phase one intake was 25 percent [carbohydrates], on average," he
> > said, rather than the 10 percent recommended. "Phase two carb intake
> > was 35 percent," he said, although 27 percent was recommended. But it
> > was a reduction from the participants' pre-study diet, which included
> > 47 percent of calories from carbohydrates, he said.
>
> > To find out why the weight declined, Hayes' team did hormone assays,
> > measuring fasting and post-meal blood levels of hormones associated
> > with appetite and food intake, such as insulin, leptin and
> > cholecystokinin (CCK).
>
> > "We found some changes in hormone levels," he said. "We saw a decrease
> > in insulin, a decrease in leptin levels by the end of phase one. It
> > was fast."
>
> > "By the end of phase 2, the insulin levels had crept up toward
> > baseline; the leptin levels also rose, but it did not come back to the
> > levels at baseline," Hayes said.
>
> > "These alternations in hormone levels acting together help reduce the
> > amount of food consumed," he said. "There's a synergy. Based on the
> > literature already out there, we are speculating that this synergy of
> > hormones may be the mechanism explaining why people are satisfied with
> > less food and [the low-carb diet] results in weight loss."
>
> People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
> little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
> syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
> not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
> this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
> syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.
>
> Dolores- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I think the key to metabolic syndrome rests moreso with grain-based
foods. White wheat flour. Also white sugar and high fructose corn
syrup. That would explain why rice based high-carb diets seem to not
lead to as much metabolic syndrome as is seen in the west where wheat,
sugar and corn are king.

In alt.support.diabetes dorsy1943 <dtms69@usadatanet.net> wrote:

> People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
> little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
> syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
> not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
> this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
> syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.

They eat a lot less and exercise a lot more. In other words they burn
up the carbs they eat. The problems start when you don't.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

On Jul 24, 3:48 pm, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> On Jul 24, 7:50 am, Diarmid <diarmidlo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/hea...07/07/20/hscou...
>
> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full...951-adiscusses how much
> carbohydrate a body needs (150 g/day), but some of that can be me from
> the glycerol in fat.

Very little can be converted from fat though. Fat can be converted to
glucose at about 10%; whereas protein can be converted at over 50%.

The physiological need for glucose can quite easily be met without
any dietary carbohydrate whatsoever.


> http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/...1407-amentions a possible
> loss of lean muscle mass from a low carb diet.

I think you need to be eating insufficient protein to lose much muscle
mass - whether low-carbing or not.

Though it would be "easier" to burn muscle mass on low-carb as your
body would be burning muscle mass for BOTH it's protein needs and it's
glucose needs. Still, getting enough protein solves the potential
problem.

I doubt very many low-carbers get insufficient protein; it seems more
common to overeat protein than to undereat it on low-carb.

Chris Malcolm wrote:
> dorsy1943 <dtms69@usadatanet.net> wrote:
>
> > People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
> > little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
> > syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
> > not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
> > this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
> > syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.
>
> They eat a lot less and exercise a lot more.

It is the former that matters because we have folks here in America
that exercise more running/biking many more miles per week and yet are
developing metabolic syndrome (MetS) because they are overeating
(eating until they stretch their stomachs).

> In other words they burn
> up the carbs they eat. The problems start when you don't.

If the total intake amount is optimal, the carbs are stored up as
harmless glycogen and not converted to harmful VAT.

The irrational compulsion to overeat is coming for the lie that
"hunger is bad" that gets entrenched in our hearts.

Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease

Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Cardiologist

dorsy1943 <dtm...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
>
> People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
> little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
> syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
> not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
> this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
> syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.

Saying that low fat works is not the same as saying low carb
fails. In fact, when followed, both approaches work for some
segment of the population. Both probably work for a large
majority of the population.

But those people who eat tiny portions that include rice, will
they turn down meat if it is available in quantity? They don't
eat their current diet because they have unlimited variety
available. They eat their current diet because it's all that is
available in their geography.

"Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1185384144.191388.252160@w3g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
> dorsy1943 <dtm...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
>>
>> People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
>> little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
>> syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
>> not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
>> this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
>> syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.
>
> Saying that low fat works is not the same as saying low carb
> fails. In fact, when followed, both approaches work for some
> segment of the population. Both probably work for a large
> majority of the population.

I agree with this more than most things I read in usenet.
I would only disagree if you are looking to start building muscle.
it is at that point that I think the fuel from carbs is very important.
2 equal in speed and distance runners perparing for a race. one eats whole
grains and othe other eats hard boilded eggs.

at the end of the race the runner that ate the whole grains will have more
energy the other might be stopped someplace throwing up.

Why I like a diet such as the ADA recommends for myself is because it helps
motivate me to exercise or at least to be more active to have lower numbers.

That means my time sitting here infront of the computer is more limited than
many reading this.

Up Up and Away from my computer.


--
Evil Tom

www.TomsDiabeticDiary.com

Chat in peace with other diabetes at the American Diabetes Associations Web
Site.
http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/...esz&redirCnt=1

Information You Can "Trust" From Your American Diabetes Association
www.diabetes.org

Information on Specific Types of Fat.
http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-an...cific-fats.jsp

In article <1185372727.343387.310510@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups .com>,
Ron Peterson <ron@shell.core.com> wrote:

> On Jul 25, 7:08 am, dorsy1943 <dtm...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
>
> > People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
> > little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
> > syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
> > not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
> > this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
> > syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.
>
> http://www.kerala.gov.in/keralacallmay04/p15-17.pdf indicates that in
> Kerala the incidence heart attacks is very high.
>
> --
> Ron

South Asians (India, Pakistan, Shri Lanka etc) are a known high risk
group for CVD. Being South Asian is like having one or two other risk
factors and consequently their risk is not measured accurately when
using something like a Framingham scale. So other than diet there is
probably a strong genetic component for high CVD levels. Incidentally,
the intake of saturated fat in Kerala is very high from coconut (though
some think that the sat fat in coconut is not "bad"). Search for Dr.
Enas Enas for research about high CVD incidence with this subpopulation.

Roland

Gantlet wrote:
> "Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > dorsy1943 <dtm...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
> >> little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
> >> syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
> >> not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
> >> this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
> >> syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.
> >
> > Saying that low fat works is not the same as saying low carb
> > fails. In fact, when followed, both approaches work for some
> > segment of the population. Both probably work for a large
> > majority of the population.
>
> I agree with this more than most things I read in usenet.
> I would only disagree if you are looking to start building muscle.
> it is at that point that I think the fuel from carbs is very important.
> 2 equal in speed and distance runners perparing for a race. one eats whole
> grains and othe other eats hard boilded eggs.
>
> at the end of the race the runner that ate the whole grains will have more
> energy the other might be stopped someplace throwing up.

The latter is what happens when glycogen stores are exhausted and
starvation ketosis starts resulting in nauseation and loss of hunger
(loss of health).

Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/PressRelease

Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Cardiologist

> Why I like a diet such as the ADA recommends for myself is because it helps
> motivate me to exercise or at least to be more active to have lower numbers.
>
> That means my time sitting here infront of the computer is more limited than
> many reading this.
>
> Up Up and Away from my computer.
>
>
> --
> Evil Tom
>
> www.TomsDiabeticDiary.com
>
> Chat in peace with other diabetes at the American Diabetes Associations Web
> Site.
> http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/...esz&redirCnt=1
>
> Information You Can "Trust" From Your American Diabetes Association
> www.diabetes.org
>
> Information on Specific Types of Fat.
> http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-an...cific-fats.jsp

"dorsy1943"

> People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
> little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
> syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
> not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
> this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
> syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.

Our J. Kwasniewski in 1970 noted that there are the two healthy diets. That
used in Japan (150g protein, plenty of rice and little fat) and the
"optimal diet" (optimal for Europe) which is like fat French diet (or John
Rollo's diet). The first has below 30E% from fats and the second abowe 70.
All diets beetwin 30 and 70 are unhealthy. Fats and carbs are fuels. They
should not be mixed.
S*

On Jul 25, 12:34 pm, "Gantlet" <T...@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote:
> "Doug Freyburger" <dfrey...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1185384144.191388.252160@w3g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
>
> > dorsy1943 <dtm...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
>
> >> People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
> >> little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
> >> syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
> >> not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
> >> this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
> >> syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.
>
> > Saying that low fat works is not the same as saying low carb
> > fails. In fact, when followed, both approaches work for some
> > segment of the population. Both probably work for a large
> > majority of the population.
>
> I agree with this more than most things I read in usenet.
> I would only disagree if you are looking to start building muscle.
> it is at that point that I think the fuel from carbs is very important.
> 2 equal in speed and distance runners perparing for a race. one eats whole
> grains and othe other eats hard boilded eggs.

Bullshit. You need dietary protein to build muscles and dietary carbs
to build fat. Check any intro to bio-chem textbook.

Low carbers have better short term and long term energy than high-
carbers. The whole carbing up before sports thing is nonsense.

>
> at the end of the race the runner that ate the whole grains will have more
> energy the other might be stopped someplace throwing up.
>
> Why I like a diet such as the ADA recommends for myself is because it helps
> motivate me to exercise or at least to be more active to have lower numbers.
>
> That means my time sitting here infront of the computer is more limited than
> many reading this.
>
> Up Up and Away from my computer.
>
> --
> Evil Tom
>
> www.TomsDiabeticDiary.com
>
> Chat in peace with other diabetes at the American Diabetes Associations Web
> Site.http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/...x&webtag=amdia...
>
> Information You Can "Trust" From Your American Diabetes Associationwww.diabetes.org
>
> Information on Specific Types of Fat.http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-an.../foodlabel/spe...

On Jul 25, 12:34 pm, "Gantlet" <T...@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote:

> I agree with this more than most things I read in usenet.
> I would only disagree if you are looking to start building muscle.
> it is at that point that I think the fuel from carbs is very important.

I just don't see why you think glucose would be useful for building
muscle. You need protein to build muscle.


> 2 equal in speed and distance runners perparing for a race. one eats whole
> grains and othe other eats hard boilded eggs.

I agree that the more exercise that is done, the more carbs can be
tolerated.


> at the end of the race the runner that ate the whole grains will have more
> energy the other might be stopped someplace throwing up.

Well, the other might just be eating something as he/she goes along
too.

Some low-carb dieters add carbs for prolonged exercise.

Some diabetics use exercise after a particular meal instead of meds.

And some people have physical limitations that prevent exercise.


> Why I like a diet such as the ADA recommends for myself is because it helps
> motivate me to exercise or at least to be more active to have lower numbers.

If it works for you, that's great.

For me, experience has shown me my bg stays in the desired range best
at around 50g carb/day. Lower doesn't improve my bg readings, but
higher screws them up.

I think there's a lot more variation in what works for different
people than what the ADA suggests though.

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Szczepan Bialek wrote in article
<f884cu$2gm$1@node1.news.atman.pl>:


> "dorsy1943"

>> People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
>> little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
>> syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
>> not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
>> this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
>> syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.

>Our J. Kwasniewski in 1970 noted that there are the two healthy diets. That
>used in Japan (150g protein, plenty of rice and little fat) and the
>"optimal diet" (optimal for Europe) which is like fat French diet (or John
>Rollo's diet). The first has below 30E% from fats and the second abowe 70.
>All diets beetwin 30 and 70 are unhealthy. Fats and carbs are fuels. They
>should not be mixed.

Any study that includes Japanese rice as a diet element needs to allow
for the fact that for decades the Japanese government has required
supplementation of nutrients in commercial rice. That was true when I
lived in Japan almost fifty years ago, and I doubt the custom has
changed since. Japanese rice is not simply boiled or steamed white
rice direct from the mill.

Presumably the Japanese government established this requirement
following the change to milled rice which lacks the bran of brown
rice--much as the US required supplementation of white bread, milk, and
many other food products.
--
Don Kirkman

dorsy1943 wrote:

>
> People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
> little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
> syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
> not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
> this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
> syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.
>
> Dolores
>

Historically, the USA and the colonies were populated by people taller
than the typical European. Something about the diet. Possibly more meat
from game or domestic stock. Less reliance on grains is possible.


Many of the parts of the world where very high carb diets and little fat
and animal protein are eaten are associated with smaller people.


Then there are the coconut eating Pacific islanders who eat lots of fat
and lower carbs and are alleged to have excellent heart health.


Something could be complicated, and simplistic thinking of single causes
could be wrong.

On Jul 25, 1:48 pm, Joe Doe <N...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> In article <1185372727.343387.310...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups .com>,
> Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 25, 7:08 am, dorsy1943 <dtm...@usadatanet.net> wrote:
>
> > > People in parts of the world who eat very high carb diets with very
> > > little fat and animal protein do not have problems with metabolic
> > > syndrome or heart disease. And many of these people eat white rice
> > > not brown rice as the main carb in their diet. How come people in
> > > this country have to eat a high meat and fat diet to avoid metabolic
> > > syndrome? Something is wrong somewhere.
>
> >http://www.kerala.gov.in/keralacallm...7.pdfindicates that in
> > Kerala the incidence heart attacks is very high.
>
> > --
> > Ron
>
> South Asians (India, Pakistan, Shri Lanka etc) are a known high risk
> group for CVD. Being South Asian is like having one or two other risk
> factors and consequently their risk is not measured accurately when
> using something like a Framingham scale. So other than diet there is
> probably a strong genetic component for high CVD levels. Incidentally,
> the intake of saturated fat in Kerala is very high from coconut (though
> some think that the sat fat in coconut is not "bad"). Search for Dr.
> Enas Enas for research about high CVD incidence with this subpopulation.

Some might point to a traditional diet in Kerala that is high is carb
as being
the problem. Combined with high sat fat content, and likely lower
protein
intake, you have a nice recipe for metabolic syndrome. Would be
interesting
to know, rather than just speculate as we are doing at this point.

On Jul 25, 4:55 pm, jackiepa...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 25, 12:34 pm, "Gantlet" <T...@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote:
>
> > I agree with this more than most things I read in usenet.
> > I would only disagree if you are looking to start building muscle.
> > it is at that point that I think the fuel from carbs is very important.
>
> I just don't see why you think glucose would be useful for building
> muscle. You need protein to build muscle.

You throw down a big workout, deplete your muscular glycogen stores.
Then, you
take some fast sugar. It works through the system. It refills your
muscles as they
rebuild. They physically look bigger. Really. It helps to have
worthwhile muscles to
start your experiment with, but this is reasonably well known.

The effect is temporary (the muscles will refill over time from
dietary carb or the various
processes your body can turn protein into glycogen) but it's something
you can pretty
much see, so belief is pretty strong in the community.