The "Low Fat High Carb" lie

[Kurt]

In this newsgroup there are a few vocal think-they-know-it-alls that
continue to push sound bytes that are not grounded in reality or
truth. One of the biggest lies they push is that the ADA and many
doctors and nutritionists advise people with diabetes to eat a "high
carb" and "low fat" diet. Not true. It is only higher carb and lower
fat than what the think-they-know-it-alls eat. Doesn't mean it is high
carb or low fat or wrong or bad, only that they disagree with it.

It's important to make that distinction when words are thrown around
in here like confetti.

Kurt

[sometimers]

On 5/8/2010 5:04 PM, Kurt wrote:
> In this newsgroup there are a few vocal think-they-know-it-alls that
> continue to push sound bytes that are not grounded in reality or
> truth. One of the biggest lies they push is that the ADA and many
> doctors and nutritionists advise people with diabetes to eat a "high
> carb" and "low fat" diet. Not true. It is only higher carb and lower
> fat than what the think-they-know-it-alls eat. Doesn't mean it is high
> carb or low fat or wrong or bad, only that they disagree with it.
>
> It's important to make that distinction when words are thrown around
> in here like confetti.
>
> Kurt
>

Yes.

[Julie Bove]

"Kurt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In this newsgroup there are a few vocal think-they-know-it-alls that
> continue to push sound bytes that are not grounded in reality or
> truth. One of the biggest lies they push is that the ADA and many
> doctors and nutritionists advise people with diabetes to eat a "high
> carb" and "low fat" diet. Not true. It is only higher carb and lower
> fat than what the think-they-know-it-alls eat. Doesn't mean it is high
> carb or low fat or wrong or bad, only that they disagree with it.
>
> It's important to make that distinction when words are thrown around
> in here like confetti.

I don't really know what the ADA pushes and don't really care. Not that I
think they really "push" anything. I do know that the dieticians I have
seen have been keen on low fat diets. Not necessarily high carb ones. And
certainly not the last one I saw.

[[email protected] |]

On May 8, 3:04*pm, Kurt <kurtwheeling1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In this newsgroup there are a few vocal think-they-know-it-alls that
> continue to push sound bytes that are not grounded in reality or
> truth. One of the biggest lies they push is that the ADA and many
> doctors and nutritionists advise people with diabetes to eat a "high
> carb" and "low fat" diet. Not true. It is only higher carb and lower
> fat than what the think-they-know-it-alls eat. Doesn't mean it is high
> carb or low fat or wrong or bad, only that they disagree with it.
>
> It's important to make that distinction when words are thrown around
> in here like confetti.
>
> Kurt

What I do know for sure is what the meter says. And the
meter says keep the carbs very low and the blood glucose
levels are far better at around 50 grams of total carbs
per day.

[Trinkwasser]

On Sun, 9 May 2010 03:23:19 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]
|" <[email protected]> wrote:

>On May 8, 3:04*pm, Kurt <kurtwheeling1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> In this newsgroup there are a few vocal think-they-know-it-alls that
>> continue to push sound bytes that are not grounded in reality or
>> truth. One of the biggest lies they push is that the ADA and many
>> doctors and nutritionists advise people with diabetes to eat a "high
>> carb" and "low fat" diet. Not true. It is only higher carb and lower
>> fat than what the think-they-know-it-alls eat. Doesn't mean it is high
>> carb or low fat or wrong or bad, only that they disagree with it.
>>
>> It's important to make that distinction when words are thrown around
>> in here like confetti.
>>
>> Kurt
>
>What I do know for sure is what the meter says. And the
>meter says keep the carbs very low and the blood glucose
>levels are far better at around 50 grams of total carbs
>per day.

And the lipids.

[Helen Back]

On 9 May, 11:23, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |"
<trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 8, 3:04*pm, Kurt <kurtwheeling1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In this newsgroup there are a few vocal think-they-know-it-alls that
> > continue to push sound bytes that are not grounded in reality or
> > truth. One of the biggest lies they push is that the ADA and many
> > doctors and nutritionists advise people with diabetes to eat a "high
> > carb" and "low fat" diet. Not true. It is only higher carb and lower
> > fat than what the think-they-know-it-alls eat. Doesn't mean it is high
> > carb or low fat or wrong or bad, only that they disagree with it.
>
> > It's important to make that distinction when words are thrown around
> > in here like confetti.
>
> > Kurt
>
> What I do know for sure is what the meter says. And the
> meter says keep the carbs very low and the blood glucose
> levels are far better at around 50 grams of total carbs
> per day.

If I followed the advice of my diabetes care adviser, Id have high bg
constantly - thats all I know!

[Michael]

On 5/10/2010 6:09 AM, Helen Back wrote:
> On 9 May, 11:23, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |"
> <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On May 8, 3:04 pm, Kurt<kurtwheeling1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In this newsgroup there are a few vocal think-they-know-it-alls that
>>> continue to push sound bytes that are not grounded in reality or
>>> truth. One of the biggest lies they push is that the ADA and many
>>> doctors and nutritionists advise people with diabetes to eat a "high
>>> carb" and "low fat" diet. Not true. It is only higher carb and lower
>>> fat than what the think-they-know-it-alls eat. Doesn't mean it is high
>>> carb or low fat or wrong or bad, only that they disagree with it.
>>
>>> It's important to make that distinction when words are thrown around
>>> in here like confetti.
>>
>>> Kurt
>>
>> What I do know for sure is what the meter says. And the
>> meter says keep the carbs very low and the blood glucose
>> levels are far better at around 50 grams of total carbs
>> per day.
>
> If I followed the advice of my diabetes care adviser, Id have high bg
> constantly - thats all I know!

Hi Tracy,

I have to question whether those who defend the ADA diet are doing so
out of some form of denial. It is difficult to accept that we must
change our diets radically to neutralize the effects of T2. It would be
easier to simply go with the ADA and eat more or less the carbs you want.

I am going by the experience of my wife. Hers is an ongoing study of 12
years that is a success story. I differ from her somewhat in that I take
met. She has never taken any medication for T2.

However, we both eat the same diet more or less. For me it is less. I
eat fewer carbs than does she. My limit is 10 per day. Hers is about 20.

We can argue back and forth all day about the efficacy of different
treatments. In the end, I will follow what I have seen first hand that
works. It is my body and I want to minimize my risks.

I am currently doing yet another experiment. My FBG wanders in the
morning. It will be up if I do not drink the rum at night. It will be up
if I sleep extra long. But, there is some other variable that I have not
yet found. Right now I am testing my night time salads. It appears at
first glance that if I eat my large salad late at night (9:00 pm), this
produces a low FBG in the morning. This happens even if I sleep late. It
will take much more testing and charting to confirm.

Michael

[Chris Malcolm]

Michael <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 5/10/2010 6:09 AM, Helen Back wrote:
>> On 9 May, 11:23, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |"
>> <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On May 8, 3:04 pm, Kurt<kurtwheeling1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In this newsgroup there are a few vocal think-they-know-it-alls that
>>>> continue to push sound bytes that are not grounded in reality or
>>>> truth. One of the biggest lies they push is that the ADA and many
>>>> doctors and nutritionists advise people with diabetes to eat a "high
>>>> carb" and "low fat" diet. Not true. It is only higher carb and lower
>>>> fat than what the think-they-know-it-alls eat. Doesn't mean it is high
>>>> carb or low fat or wrong or bad, only that they disagree with it.

>>> What I do know for sure is what the meter says. And the
>>> meter says keep the carbs very low and the blood glucose
>>> levels are far better at around 50 grams of total carbs
>>> per day.
>>
>> If I followed the advice of my diabetes care adviser, Id have high bg
>> constantly - thats all I know!

> Hi Tracy,

> I have to question whether those who defend the ADA diet are doing so
> out of some form of denial. It is difficult to accept that we must
> change our diets radically to neutralize the effects of T2. It would be
> easier to simply go with the ADA and eat more or less the carbs you want.

When eating with a gang of acquaintances in a pub or cafe I often find
myself explaining my odd menu choice to folk. "Diabetic -- have to
avoid white starchy stuff" is what I usually say. I'm almost always
told of diabetics they know who can eat as many potatoes as they
like. Sadly so do I. Then someone quite often tells me that if they
weren't able to eat potatoes life wouldn't be worth living. With stern
self control I refrain from any of the obvious and impolite ripostes
:-)

> I am currently doing yet another experiment. My FBG wanders in the
> morning. It will be up if I do not drink the rum at night. It will be up
> if I sleep extra long.

Interesting. Do you eat or drink something on waking which arrests the
rise that would otherwise have happened by the time you would have got
up if you'd slept extra late? Or does the mere fact of rising earlier
stop it from rising?

--
Chris Malcolm

[Trinkwasser]

On 10 May 2010 23:15:23 GMT, Chris Malcolm <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Michael <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I am currently doing yet another experiment. My FBG wanders in the
>> morning. It will be up if I do not drink the rum at night. It will be up
>> if I sleep extra long.
>
>Interesting. Do you eat or drink something on waking which arrests the
>rise that would otherwise have happened by the time you would have got
>up if you'd slept extra late? Or does the mere fact of rising earlier
>stop it from rising?

Yes a lot of diabetics mainly Type 2s find this, and sometimes the
means of controlling it may differ significantly, either different
balances of fat and protein (and red wine) at night or different
breakfast protocols, it's literally suck it and see.

I hardly ever get abnormal FBG but that's only because my body lays in
wait until I *do* something. getting a handle on BG that jumped up
after morning exercise and went low after afternoon exercise took a
bit of work

[Michael]

"Chris Malcolm" wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Michael wrote:
> > On 5/10/2010 6:09 AM, Helen Back wrote:
> >> On 9 May, 11:23, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |"
> >> wrote:
> >>> On May 8, 3:04 pm, Kurt wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In this newsgroup there are a few vocal think-they-know-it-alls that
> >>>> continue to push sound bytes that are not grounded in reality or
> >>>> truth. One of the biggest lies they push is that the ADA and many
> >>>> doctors and nutritionists advise people with diabetes to eat a "high
> >>>> carb" and "low fat" diet. Not true. It is only higher carb and lower
> >>>> fat than what the think-they-know-it-alls eat. Doesn't mean it
is high
> >>>> carb or low fat or wrong or bad, only that they disagree with it.
>
> >>> What I do know for sure is what the meter says. And the
> >>> meter says keep the carbs very low and the blood glucose
> >>> levels are far better at around 50 grams of total carbs
> >>> per day.
> >>
> >> If I followed the advice of my diabetes care adviser, Id have high bg
> >> constantly - thats all I know!
>
> > Hi Tracy,
>
> > I have to question whether those who defend the ADA diet are doing so
> > out of some form of denial. It is difficult to accept that we must
> > change our diets radically to neutralize the effects of T2. It would be
> > easier to simply go with the ADA and eat more or less the carbs you
want.
>
> When eating with a gang of acquaintances in a pub or cafe I often find
> myself explaining my odd menu choice to folk. "Diabetic -- have to
> avoid white starchy stuff" is what I usually say. I'm almost always
> told of diabetics they know who can eat as many potatoes as they
> like. Sadly so do I. Then someone quite often tells me that if they
> weren't able to eat potatoes life wouldn't be worth living. With stern
> self control I refrain from any of the obvious and impolite ripostes
> :-)

There is really nothing to say. If your life depends on eating potatoes,
it is a rather dismal life. The one thing that would be hard for me to
go without is my daily readings that my wife does from whatever current
novel she has.


>
> > I am currently doing yet another experiment. My FBG wanders in the
> > morning. It will be up if I do not drink the rum at night. It will
be up
> > if I sleep extra long.
>
> Interesting. Do you eat or drink something on waking which arrests the
> rise that would otherwise have happened by the time you would have got
> up if you'd slept extra late? Or does the mere fact of rising earlier
> stop it from rising?
>
> --
> Chris Malcolm

I take my FBG reading the moment I wake up. Well, withing 5 minutes.
Getting up early reduces the rise. Meaning getting less than 6 hours
sleep. I made a point last night to have a large salad late. I then had
a very low carb snack. I went to bed two hours later after drinking my
rum. I woke up with a FBG of 96. This is a very good number for me. I
had slept 9 hours. The last time I was that low was on 4-10-10.
I am formulating a hypothesis. Maybe the heavy load of very complex
carbohydrates is being digested all night and my liver does not get the
message to make a dump. There might be a continuous trickle of BG being
produced from the very complex carbohydrates all night long. It is an idea.

I have 3 spots noted on my excel file so far. Many more to go.

Michael

[Trinkwasser]

On Tue, 11 May 2010 17:37:46 -0500, Michael <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I take my FBG reading the moment I wake up. Well, withing 5 minutes.
>Getting up early reduces the rise. Meaning getting less than 6 hours
>sleep. I made a point last night to have a large salad late. I then had
>a very low carb snack. I went to bed two hours later after drinking my
>rum. I woke up with a FBG of 96. This is a very good number for me. I
>had slept 9 hours. The last time I was that low was on 4-10-10.
>I am formulating a hypothesis. Maybe the heavy load of very complex
>carbohydrates is being digested all night and my liver does not get the
>message to make a dump. There might be a continuous trickle of BG being
>produced from the very complex carbohydrates all night long. It is an idea.
>
>I have 3 spots noted on my excel file so far. Many more to go.

Yes that's exactly the way to do it. Rebalancing a lot of broken
control circuitry may need different techniques for different folks
which is why testing your own response to others' suggestions is so
important.

And why following pronouncements from "authorities" often fails.