A Low-Fat Vegan Diet Helps Improves Glucose Control and Heart Health

Why did the researchers do this particular study?



The researchers wanted to see whether following a low-fat vegan diet can
help people control their blood glucose levels and lower the amount of fats
and cholesterol in their blood.

A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).

http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...vegan-diet.jsp


--
Tom

www.TomsDiabeticDiary.com

Chat in peace with other diabetes at the American Diabetes Associations Web
Site.
http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/...esz&redirCnt=1

Information You Can "Trust" From Your American Diabetes Association
www.diabetes.org

Information on Specific Types of Fat.
http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-an...cific-fats.jsp

"Gantlet" <Tom@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote in part:

>Why did the researchers do this particular study?
>
>
>
>The researchers wanted to see whether following a low-fat vegan diet can
>help people control their blood glucose levels and lower the amount of fats
>and cholesterol in their blood.
>
>A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>
>http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...vegan-diet.jsp

The results show that even an ultra low-fat vegan diet works better for
type-2 diabetics than following the nutrition recommendations of the
American Diabetes Association.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

On Nov 6, 9:33?am, "Gantlet" <T...@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote:
> Why did the researchers do this particular study?
>
> The researchers wanted to see whether following a low-fat vegan diet can
> help people control their blood glucose levels and lower the amount of fats
> and cholesterol in their blood.
>
> A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>
> http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...nard-vegan-die...

Interesting. I thought these two phrases were important...

"All of the people who *stuck to their diets*, regardless of whether
they were on the vegan diet or the diet based on ADA nutrition
recommendations, improved their blood glucose levels, lost weight,
lowered their lipid levels (fats in the blood), and lowered their
cholesterol levels..."

"Eating right and *exercising* are the best ways for patients with
type 2 diabetes to begin to treat their disease."

Thsi also applies to Type 1 diabetics...damn that ADA, everything they
do is aimed at Type 2s!!

Kurt

On Nov 6, 1:09 pm, Kurt <kurtwheeling1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 6, 9:33?am, "Gantlet" <T...@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote:
>
> > Why did the researchers do this particular study?
>
> > The researchers wanted to see whether following a low-fat vegan diet can
> > help people control their blood glucose levels and lower the amount of fats
> > and cholesterol in their blood.
>
> > A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>
> >http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...nard-vegan-die...
>
> Interesting. I thought these two phrases were important...
>
> "All of the people who *stuck to their diets*, regardless of whether
> they were on the vegan diet or the diet based on ADA nutrition
> recommendations, improved their blood glucose levels, lost weight,
> lowered their lipid levels (fats in the blood), and lowered their
> cholesterol levels..."
>
> "Eating right and *exercising* are the best ways for patients with
> type 2 diabetes to begin to treat their disease."
>
> Thsi also applies to Type 1 diabetics...damn that ADA, everything they
> do is aimed at Type 2s!!
>
> Kurt

I'd be curious to know what kind of diet these folks were eating prior
to the study. Perhaps they were eating so badly that *any* structured
diet would be an improvement.

John C.

"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:s6a1j3pikoit19gecruu5acdhgigauoc5v@4ax.com...
>>A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>>
>>http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...vegan-diet.jsp
>
> The results show that even an ultra low-fat vegan diet works better for
> type-2 diabetics than following the nutrition recommendations of the
> American Diabetes Association.
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

You are Correct Jim:
the diet higher in carbs and lower in fat did better than a diet lower
in carbs and higher in fat.

--
Tom

www.TomsDiabeticDiary.com

Chat in peace with other diabetes at the American Diabetes Associations Web
Site.
http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/...esz&redirCnt=1

Information You Can "Trust" From Your American Diabetes Association
www.diabetes.org

Information on Specific Types of Fat.
http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-an...cific-fats.jsp

"John" <jcarney44@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1194372894.318462.10260@22g2000hsm.googlegrou ps.com...
> On Nov 6, 1:09 pm, Kurt <kurtwheeling1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 6, 9:33?am, "Gantlet" <T...@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Why did the researchers do this particular study?
>>
>> > The researchers wanted to see whether following a low-fat vegan diet
>> > can
>> > help people control their blood glucose levels and lower the amount of
>> > fats
>> > and cholesterol in their blood.
>>
>> > A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or
>> > eggs).
>>
>> >http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...nard-vegan-die...
>>
>> Interesting. I thought these two phrases were important...
>>
>> "All of the people who *stuck to their diets*, regardless of whether
>> they were on the vegan diet or the diet based on ADA nutrition
>> recommendations, improved their blood glucose levels, lost weight,
>> lowered their lipid levels (fats in the blood), and lowered their
>> cholesterol levels..."
>>
>> "Eating right and *exercising* are the best ways for patients with
>> type 2 diabetes to begin to treat their disease."
>>
>> Thsi also applies to Type 1 diabetics...damn that ADA, everything they
>> do is aimed at Type 2s!!
>>
>> Kurt
>
> I'd be curious to know what kind of diet these folks were eating prior
> to the study. Perhaps they were eating so badly that *any* structured
> diet would be an improvement.
>
> John C.
>

regardless of what they were eating before - the diet lower in fat and
higher in carbs
did better than the diet lower in carbs and higher in fat.


--
Tom

www.TomsDiabeticDiary.com

Chat in peace with other diabetes at the American Diabetes Associations Web
Site.
http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/...esz&redirCnt=1

Information You Can "Trust" From Your American Diabetes Association
www.diabetes.org

Information on Specific Types of Fat.
http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-an...cific-fats.jsp

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 19:32:48 GMT, "Gantlet"
<Tom@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote:

>> I'd be curious to know what kind of diet these folks were eating prior
>> to the study. Perhaps they were eating so badly that *any* structured
>> diet would be an improvement.
>>
>> John C.
>>
>
>regardless of what they were eating before - the diet lower in fat and
>higher in carbs
>did better than the diet lower in carbs and higher in fat.


So a diet lower in carbs AND lower in unhealthy fat would be even
better. No need then to change my diet to anything resembling the
ADA's recommendations or your vegan crap.



--
Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/


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right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o ô)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

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and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
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..

"Gantlet" <Tom@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote in message
news:Wz1Yi.3186$4I.876@trndny03...
> Why did the researchers do this particular study?
>
>
>
> The researchers wanted to see whether following a low-fat vegan diet can
> help people control their blood glucose levels and lower the amount of
> fats and cholesterol in their blood.
>
> A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>
> http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...vegan-diet.jsp

Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Sounds like the kind of diet I was on prior to diabetes.
Although I did eat some cheese and eggs from time to time. It was all beans
and rice. Beans and pasta. And some salad and other veggies. Waaaay too
many carbs for me now.

"John" <jcarney44@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1194372894.318462.10260@22g2000hsm.googlegrou ps.com...
> On Nov 6, 1:09 pm, Kurt <kurtwheeling1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 6, 9:33?am, "Gantlet" <T...@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Why did the researchers do this particular study?
>>
>> > The researchers wanted to see whether following a low-fat vegan diet
>> > can
>> > help people control their blood glucose levels and lower the amount of
>> > fats
>> > and cholesterol in their blood.
>>
>> > A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or
>> > eggs).
>>
>> >http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...nard-vegan-die...
>>
>> Interesting. I thought these two phrases were important...
>>
>> "All of the people who *stuck to their diets*, regardless of whether
>> they were on the vegan diet or the diet based on ADA nutrition
>> recommendations, improved their blood glucose levels, lost weight,
>> lowered their lipid levels (fats in the blood), and lowered their
>> cholesterol levels..."
>>
>> "Eating right and *exercising* are the best ways for patients with
>> type 2 diabetes to begin to treat their disease."
>>
>> Thsi also applies to Type 1 diabetics...damn that ADA, everything they
>> do is aimed at Type 2s!!
>>
>> Kurt
>
> I'd be curious to know what kind of diet these folks were eating prior
> to the study. Perhaps they were eating so badly that *any* structured
> diet would be an improvement.

Could very well be.

"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:s6a1j3pikoit19gecruu5acdhgigauoc5v@4ax.com...
> "Gantlet" <Tom@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote in part:
>
>>Why did the researchers do this particular study?
>>
>>
>>
>>The researchers wanted to see whether following a low-fat vegan diet can
>>help people control their blood glucose levels and lower the amount of
>>fats
>>and cholesterol in their blood.
>>
>>A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>>
>>http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...vegan-diet.jsp
>
> The results show that even an ultra low-fat vegan diet works better for
> type-2 diabetics than following the nutrition recommendations of the
> American Diabetes Association.

Omitting a goodly amount of essential fats is not healthy long-term.

"Kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194372553.915994.258410@e9g2000prf.googlegro ups.com...
> On Nov 6, 9:33?am, "Gantlet" <T...@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote:
>> Why did the researchers do this particular study?
>>
>> The researchers wanted to see whether following a low-fat vegan diet can
>> help people control their blood glucose levels and lower the amount of
>> fats
>> and cholesterol in their blood.
>>
>> A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>>
>> http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...nard-vegan-die...
>
> Interesting. I thought these two phrases were important...
>
> "All of the people who *stuck to their diets*, regardless of whether
> they were on the vegan diet or the diet based on ADA nutrition
> recommendations, improved their blood glucose levels, lost weight,
> lowered their lipid levels (fats in the blood), and lowered their
> cholesterol levels..."
>
> "Eating right and *exercising* are the best ways for patients with
> type 2 diabetes to begin to treat their disease."
>
> Thsi also applies to Type 1 diabetics...damn that ADA, everything they
> do is aimed at Type 2s!!

This is still reminiscent of the original Pritikin "days" where there wasan
early improvement in cardiac patients then a nasty decline. the lack of
enough essential fats would be the downfall of anyone persisted with a very
low fat diet for long. And this is nothing to do with carbs etc, fat only.

I reached better than normal levels of bg and lipids with lower carb and
eating animal products, so what's your point??

"Gantlet" <Tom@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote in message
news:Wz1Yi.3186$4I.876@trndny03...
> Why did the researchers do this particular study?
>
>
>
> The researchers wanted to see whether following a low-fat vegan diet can
> help people control their blood glucose levels and lower the amount of
> fats and cholesterol in their blood.
>
> A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>
> http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...vegan-diet.jsp
>
>
> --
> Tom
>
> www.TomsDiabeticDiary.com
>
> Chat in peace with other diabetes at the American Diabetes Associations
> Web Site.
> http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/...esz&redirCnt=1
>
> Information You Can "Trust" From Your American Diabetes Association
> www.diabetes.org
>
> Information on Specific Types of Fat.
> http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-an...cific-fats.jsp
>
>
>
>

Gantlet wrote:

> A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).

Or honey or gelatin or whey (whey is in almost *every* packaged food
there is!)

My daughter was vegan for a while and it was a real pita trying to
figure out what to feed her. People who don't like vegetables really
ought not be vegetarians!

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Gantlet wrote:
> friend "Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote:
>
> >>A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
> >>
> >>http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...vegan-diet.jsp
> >
> > The results show that even an ultra low-fat vegan diet works better for
> > type-2 diabetics than following the nutrition recommendations of the
> > American Diabetes Association.
> > --
> > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
>
> You are Correct Jim:
> the diet higher in carbs and lower in fat did better than a diet lower
> in carbs and higher in fat.

Possibly also lower in protein.

No matter the diet, wise to eat less, down to the optimal amount :-)

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/PressRelease

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 10:14:54 -0800, John
<jcarney44@verizon.net> wrote:

>I'd be curious to know what kind of diet these folks were eating prior
>to the study. Perhaps they were eating so badly that *any* structured
>diet would be an improvement.
>
>John C.

Delete "perhaps".


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Psyllium, Fibre, Muesli and Nuts

In alt.support.diabetes on Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:24:46 -0500 in Msg.#
<4730f7b7$0$22870$470ef3ce@news.pa.net>, Jackie Patti <jpatti@ccil.org>
wrote:

> Gantlet wrote:
>
> > A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>
> Or honey or gelatin or whey (whey is in almost *every* packaged food
> there is!)
>
> My daughter was vegan for a while and it was a real pita trying to
> figure out what to feed her. People who don't like vegetables really
> ought not be vegetarians!

Heck, there are times, situations, etc. when vegans, and vegetarians, find
that they have to come up with a way to get more protein in - either that or
restrict their level of activity!

Of course, often there's commentary here that seems to reflect that none of
us ever tried low-fat, meatless or nearly meatless, as a WOE (Way of
Eating)! I know I did. It was a very very restrictive diet including a
cutback in portion size. Initially, I lost weight, but I couldn't keep it
off. And, it did nothing to improve my lipids & may even have made them
worse in the long-term. Plus, it was depressing, and I was hungry for much
longer than last year when I cut back on carbs while increasing healthy meat
& healthy fat. I should add that for me eating low-fat, nearly meatless &
very restricted was pre-diabetes diagnosis by around 5 years.

--
DonnaB shallotpeel, T2 since June 06, USA, last HbA1c 5.3

"Children are a wonderful gift ... They have an extraordinary capacity to
see into the heart of things and to expose sham and humbug for what they
are." - Desmond Tutu (1931-) THE WORDS OF DESMOND TUTU [1989]

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:33:42 GMT, "Gantlet"
<Tom@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote:

>Why did the researchers do this particular study?
>
>
>
>The researchers wanted to see whether following a low-fat vegan diet can
>help people control their blood glucose levels and lower the amount of fats
>and cholesterol in their blood.
>
>A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>
>http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...vegan-diet.jsp

Nicely cut-and-pasted Tom.

I've often found that the dumbed down ADA page for us "no
need to tell them more" patients don't quite give the full
story, so I go to the source.

This time I also compared some relevant stats with the
Gannon and Nuttall LoBag 20 paper.

It's hard to give a direct comparison, but this will give
some idea. Note that A1c is a component of %tGHb, not a
direct equivalent although the proportional change is
relevant, and the timescale is much shorter (less than a
quarter) in the LoBAg20.

Vegan
Baseline 22 weeks Change
A1c 8 +/- 1.1 7.1 +/- 1.0 -0.9
FBG 163.5 +/- 53.2 128 +/- 35.5 -35.5
Weight 97 +/- 22.9 91.1 +/- 22.4 -5.9

ADA
Baseline 22 weeks
A1c 7.9 +/- 1.0 7.4 +/- 1.0 -0.5
FBG 160.4 +/- 40.7 125.8 +/- 34.4 -34.6
Weight 99.3 +/- 21 95 +/- 20.9 -4.3

LoBag20

Baseline 5 weeks
%tGHb 9.8% +/- 0.5 7.6 +/- 0.3 -2.2
FBG 167 +/- 13 119 +/- 7 -48.0
Weight 98 +/- 4.5 96 +/- 4.1 -2.0

Note especially that FBG change and the implied A1c change
was greater in the short 5 weeks of the LoBAg20 study.
Extrapolating the weight loss to 22 weeks may not be
accurate, but certainly implies some interesting numbers.

If you want more detail, the original pdf for the Vegan
study is here:
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/reprint/29/8/1777
and a review of Lobag 20 is here:
http://nutritionandmetabolism.com/co...-7075-3-16.pdf

There are further LoBag study references in the earlier
thread on Gannon and Nuttall. The later LoBag 30 diet had
similar but not quite so dramatic results.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Psyllium, Fibre, Muesli and Nuts

x-no-archive: yes

Julie Bove wrote:

> Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Sounds like the kind of diet I was on prior to diabetes.
> Although I did eat some cheese and eggs from time to time. It was all beans
> and rice. Beans and pasta. And some salad and other veggies. Waaaay too
> many carbs for me now.
>
>

I became severely IR, developed PCOS, severe peripheral neuropathies and
labile hypertension on the Ornish diet, which was, with the exception of
fat free dairy in minute quantities, low fat vegan.

Those folks had to have been eating total crap before vegan in order to
improve, or exercise like hell to overcome the effects, like the
Pritikin study participants.

Susan

"Gantlet" <Tom@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote in part:

>
>"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
>news:s6a1j3pikoit19gecruu5acdhgigauoc5v@4ax.com.. .
>>>A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>>>
>>>http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...vegan-diet.jsp
>>
>> The results show that even an ultra low-fat vegan diet works better for
>> type-2 diabetics than following the nutrition recommendations of the
>> American Diabetes Association.
>> --
>> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
>
>You are Correct Jim:
>the diet higher in carbs and lower in fat did better than a diet lower
>in carbs and higher in fat.

Those weren't the only differences. I think that's a poor description.

Curious: Will the ADA change their nutrition recommendations to reflect this
discovery?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

"Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in part:

>
>"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
>news:s6a1j3pikoit19gecruu5acdhgigauoc5v@4ax.com.. .
>> "Gantlet" <Tom@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote in part:
>>
>>>Why did the researchers do this particular study?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The researchers wanted to see whether following a low-fat vegan diet can
>>>help people control their blood glucose levels and lower the amount of
>>>fats
>>>and cholesterol in their blood.
>>>
>>>A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>>>
>>>http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...vegan-diet.jsp
>>
>> The results show that even an ultra low-fat vegan diet works better for
>> type-2 diabetics than following the nutrition recommendations of the
>> American Diabetes Association.
>
>Omitting a goodly amount of essential fats is not healthy long-term.

I agree. A 22-week impact based on lipids and glucose isn't much of a test,
either. I don't suppose either diet included fatty fish or fish oil...
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in part:

>Those folks had to have been eating total crap before vegan in order to
>improve

Yeah. i suspect that *ANY* recommended diet may well bring about
improvements in many type-2 diabetics. (Sue me!)
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

"Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:5pcfrjFqm2laU1@mid.individual.net...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Sounds like the kind of diet I was on prior to
>> diabetes. Although I did eat some cheese and eggs from time to time. It
>> was all beans and rice. Beans and pasta. And some salad and other
>> veggies. Waaaay too many carbs for me now.
>
> I became severely IR, developed PCOS, severe peripheral neuropathies and
> labile hypertension on the Ornish diet, which was, with the exception of
> fat free dairy in minute quantities, low fat vegan.
>
> Those folks had to have been eating total crap before vegan in order to
> improve, or exercise like hell to overcome the effects, like the Pritikin
> study participants.

That could well be. Always surprises me how little people know about
nutrition. One of my friends doesn't know how to cook too much, although in
recent years she seems to have learned more out of necessity. I remember
her eating chicken nuggets, fried chicken and fried, breaded chicken patties
on sandwiches. She thought she was doing a good thing because it was
chicken. Chicken is good. Right? That's what she said. I know another
person who for some strange reason thinks white cheese is better for you
than yellow cheese. And of course there's the ever popular, brown colored
bread is better for you than white colored bread.

I too was pretty much following the Ornish plan prior to diagnosis.

"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:1b32j3t01jp0nv8m5eb6hqq38u50bnhpnj@4ax.com...
> "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in part:
>
>>
>>"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote in message
>>news:s6a1j3pikoit19gecruu5acdhgigauoc5v@4ax.com. ..
>>> "Gantlet" <Tom@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote in part:
>>>
>>>>Why did the researchers do this particular study?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The researchers wanted to see whether following a low-fat vegan diet can
>>>>help people control their blood glucose levels and lower the amount of
>>>>fats
>>>>and cholesterol in their blood.
>>>>
>>>>A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>>>>
>>>>http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...vegan-diet.jsp
>>>
>>> The results show that even an ultra low-fat vegan diet works better for
>>> type-2 diabetics than following the nutrition recommendations of the
>>> American Diabetes Association.
>>
>>Omitting a goodly amount of essential fats is not healthy long-term.
>
> I agree. A 22-week impact based on lipids and glucose isn't much of a
> test,
> either. I don't suppose either diet included fatty fish or fish oil...

Fish isn't allowed on a vegan diet.

For a better article of this subject:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/542153

After 22 weeks of this trial, A1c only dropped a small amount:

"For all participants, glycated hemoglobin (HbA1c) levels decreased 0.96
percentage points in the low-fat, vegan group and 0.56 points in the ADA
group (P = .089). Excluding those who changed medications, HbA1C levels
decreased by 1.23 points in the low-fat, vegan group and by 0.38 points in
the ADA group (P = .01)."

Some were already on lipid lowering medication.
Reduction in use of diabetes medications occurred in 21 of (43%) 49 of the
low-fat, vegan group and in 13 (26%) of 50 of the ADA group participants.
For all participants, glycated hemoglobin (HbA1c) levels decreased 0.96
percentage points in the low-fat, vegan group and 0.56 points in the ADA
group (P = .089). Excluding those who changed medications, HbA1C levels
decreased by 1.23 points in the low-fat, vegan group and by 0.38 points in
the ADA group (P = .01).
Body weight decreased by 6.5 kg in the low-fat, vegan group and by 3.1 kg in
the ADA group (P < .001), and change in body weight was correlated with
change in HbA1C level (r = 0.51; n = 57; P < .0001). In those patients who
did not change lipid-lowering medications, low-density lipoprotein (LDL)
cholesterol decreased by 21.2% in the low-fat, vegan group and by 10.7% in
the ADA group (P = .02). Urinary albumin reductions were greater in the
low-fat, vegan group (15.9 mg per 24 hour) than in the ADA group (10.9 mg
per 24 hour), after adjustment for baseline values (P = .013).

"Both a low-fat vegan diet and a diet based on ADA guidelines improved
glycemic and lipid control in type 2 diabetic patients," the authors write.
"These improvements were greater with a low-fat vegan diet."

Study limitations were relatively short duration; limited compliance of the
ADA group; both diets made participants vulnerable to the hypoglycemic
effect of their diabetes medications, resulting in medication reductions
confounding the interpretation of HbA1C changes; and most study participants
were taking antihypertensive medications, which may have blunted the effect
of diet on blood pressure.

"Further research is necessary to establish longer-term diet effects and
sustainability," the authors conclude.

The National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases and the
Diabetes Action Research and Education Foundation supported this study. The
costs of publication of this article were defrayed in part by the payment of
page charges, mandating that it be labeled "advertisement.""

In the ADA article they "showed" that the vegan group did better than those
following the ADA recommended diet Yet this study probably won't
disappear quietly like other articles, the vegan group ate grains. Wonder
whether it would have been printed if beans had been the major carb source.

This study would be more indicative of its worth if the participants were on
no meds for BP, lipids or glucose control. It's also pathetic that an almost
6 month trial can only produce a piddling reduction in weight and A1c.
Another waste of public money.

Hi Jim:

>>>>A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>>>>

Are all essential amino acids available from vegetables or is another
protein source necessary?

"Soy protein contains all of the essential amino acids in sufficient
quantities to support human life and is therefore a complete protein."
Soy Protein and Cardiovascular Disease:
A Statement for Healthcare Professionals From the Nutrition Committee of
the AHA - http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/cont...ll/102/20/2555

"Multiple linear regression analyses adjusted for standard osteoporosis
covariates showed a positive association between animal protein
consumption, assessed by food frequency questionnaires in 1988–1992, and
BMD, measured 4 years later. This association was statistically
significant in women. For every 15-g/day increase in animal protein
intake, ... Conversely, a negative association between vegetable protein
and BMD was observed in both sexes." Protein Consumption and Bone
Mineral Density in the Elderly -
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/co...full/155/7/636

I did not attempt to be exhaustive with protein issue.

>>>>http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...vegan-diet.jsp
>>>
>>>The results show that even an ultra low-fat vegan diet works better for
>>>type-2 diabetics than following the nutrition recommendations of the
>>>American Diabetes Association.
>>
>>Omitting a goodly amount of essential fats is not healthy long-term.

The known essential fatty acids are Omega 3 and Omega 6. Some consider
the relative mix of their intake as important and their level of intake.
Some other fats may be necessary for digesting the vegetables.

Vitamin B-12 is another issue and would probably require a supplement.

Frank

Jefferson <fwroy@adelphia.netexopheno> wrote in part:

>Hi Jim:
>
>>>>>A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>>>>>
>
>Are all essential amino acids available from vegetables or is another
>protein source necessary?
>
>"Soy protein contains all of the essential amino acids in sufficient
>quantities to support human life and is therefore a complete protein."
>Soy Protein and Cardiovascular Disease:
>A Statement for Healthcare Professionals From the Nutrition Committee of
>the AHA - http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/cont...ll/102/20/2555
>
>"Multiple linear regression analyses adjusted for standard osteoporosis
>covariates showed a positive association between animal protein
>consumption, assessed by food frequency questionnaires in 1988–1992, and
>BMD, measured 4 years later. This association was statistically
>significant in women. For every 15-g/day increase in animal protein
>intake, ... Conversely, a negative association between vegetable protein
>and BMD was observed in both sexes." Protein Consumption and Bone
>Mineral Density in the Elderly -
>http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/co...full/155/7/636
>
>I did not attempt to be exhaustive with protein issue.
>
>>>>>http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...vegan-diet.jsp
>>>>
>>>>The results show that even an ultra low-fat vegan diet works better for
>>>>type-2 diabetics than following the nutrition recommendations of the
>>>>American Diabetes Association.
>>>
>>>Omitting a goodly amount of essential fats is not healthy long-term.
>
>The known essential fatty acids are Omega 3 and Omega 6. Some consider
>the relative mix of their intake as important and their level of intake.
>Some other fats may be necessary for digesting the vegetables.
>
>Vitamin B-12 is another issue and would probably require a supplement.

Vitamin B-12 is a good example of an effect that wouldn't show up in 22
weeks. Neither would the essential fatty acid deficiencies or the balance
between n-3 and n-6 fatty acids.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

On Nov 6, 8:08 pm, Jefferson <fw...@adelphia.netexopheno> wrote:
> Hi Jim:
>
> >>>>A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>
> Are all essential amino acids available from vegetables or is another
> protein source necessary?
>
> "Soy protein contains all of the essential amino acids in sufficient
> quantities to support human life and is therefore a complete protein."
> Soy Protein and Cardiovascular Disease:
> A Statement for Healthcare Professionals From the Nutrition Committee of
> the AHA -http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/102/20/2555
>
> "Multiple linear regression analyses adjusted for standard osteoporosis
> covariates showed a positive association between animal protein
> consumption, assessed by food frequency questionnaires in 1988-1992, and
> BMD, measured 4 years later. This association was statistically
> significant in women. For every 15-g/day increase in animal protein
> intake, ... Conversely, a negative association between vegetable protein
> and BMD was observed in both sexes." Protein Consumption and Bone
> Mineral Density in the Elderly -http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/155/7/636
>
> I did not attempt to be exhaustive with protein issue.
>
> >>>>http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...nard-vegan-die...
>
> >>>The results show that even an ultra low-fat vegan diet works better for
> >>>type-2 diabetics than following the nutrition recommendations of the
> >>>American Diabetes Association.
>
> >>Omitting a goodly amount of essential fats is not healthy long-term.
>
> The known essential fatty acids are Omega 3 and Omega 6. Some consider
> the relative mix of their intake as important and their level of intake.
> Some other fats may be necessary for digesting the vegetables.
>
> Vitamin B-12 is another issue and would probably require a supplement.

Brown rice and beans together make a complete protein. Add some sea
vegetables into the mix, as most vegans do, and you have plenty of
B-12.

http://tinyurl.com/38oa48

For the record, I am not a vegan. I tried it for a short while but
found it way too restrictive. After that I started adding things to
the mix like fish, eggs, and some dairy.

Kurt

On Nov 6, 8:08 pm, Jefferson <fw...@adelphia.netexopheno> wrote:
> Hi Jim:
>
> >>>>A vegan diet doesn't contain any animal products (meat, dairy, or eggs).
>
> Are all essential amino acids available from vegetables or is another
> protein source necessary?
>
> "Soy protein contains all of the essential amino acids in sufficient
> quantities to support human life and is therefore a complete protein."
> Soy Protein and Cardiovascular Disease:
> A Statement for Healthcare Professionals From the Nutrition Committee of
> the AHA -http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/102/20/2555
>
> "Multiple linear regression analyses adjusted for standard osteoporosis
> covariates showed a positive association between animal protein
> consumption, assessed by food frequency questionnaires in 1988-1992, and
> BMD, measured 4 years later. This association was statistically
> significant in women. For every 15-g/day increase in animal protein
> intake, ... Conversely, a negative association between vegetable protein
> and BMD was observed in both sexes." Protein Consumption and Bone
> Mineral Density in the Elderly -http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/155/7/636
>
> I did not attempt to be exhaustive with protein issue.
>
> >>>>http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-res...nard-vegan-die...
>
> >>>The results show that even an ultra low-fat vegan diet works better for
> >>>type-2 diabetics than following the nutrition recommendations of the
> >>>American Diabetes Association.
>
> >>Omitting a goodly amount of essential fats is not healthy long-term.
>
> The known essential fatty acids are Omega 3 and Omega 6. Some consider
> the relative mix of their intake as important and their level of intake.
> Some other fats may be necessary for digesting the vegetables.
>
> Vitamin B-12 is another issue and would probably require a supplement.

Whole grain brown rice combined with beans make a complete protein.
Add sea vegetables into the mix, as most vegans do, and you have more
than enough B-12.

http://tinyurl.com/38oa48

For the record, I am not vegan...I tried it for a short time years ago
but it was very restrictive and I started adding things into it like
fish and some dairy.

Kurt

"Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
news:13j1tft2vsnk194@news.supernews.com...
>I reached better than normal levels of bg and lipids with lower carb and
>eating animal products, so what's your point??




I SAID NO MORE HIGHER CARBERS - NO HIGHER CARBERS.
http://www.peteykins.com/sparklepics2/MommieDearest.jpg

"Gantlet" <Tom@TomsDiabeticDiary.com> wrote in message
news:gWnYi.11584$%n.229@trndny07...
>
> "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
> news:13j1tft2vsnk194@news.supernews.com...
>>I reached better than normal levels of bg and lipids with lower carb and
>>eating animal products, so what's your point??
>
>
>
>
> I SAID NO MORE HIGHER CARBERS - NO HIGHER CARBERS.
> http://www.peteykins.com/sparklepics2/MommieDearest.jpg

What you said was: "the diet higher in carbs and lower in fat did better
than a diet lower
in carbs and higher in fat." So again, what's your point?